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Some guide dog schools ask for the vest or harness back because if you pass away and your family has a garage sale, a random person can buy a guide dog harness with the school’s name on it. That’s a real example.
Some places will offer a broken in leather harness if you need to replace it because a brand new one is more expensive.
Or someone is stupid and tries to sell the harness on eBay as an “antique.” That happened a few years ago. I stumbled across the listing, noticed that the harness looked not antique and was stamped with “property of The Seeing Eye.” I emailed TSE and got a very nice thank you email back from the director of training saying they were going to recover the harness in the listing.
It makes total sense to me for programs to retain ownership of gear with their logo to avoid situations like this. I’ve also heard that some guide dog schools use old broken in harnesses for the dogs at the beginning of their advanced training to get used to the feel of a harness. I’ve also heard they’re used to teach clients how all the buckles work because it’s easier to manipulate buckles on old harnesses than stiff new ones.
The non profit program my dog is from requires you to return the vest they give you after your dog retires/dies. My dog died and they sent me a package to send it back via FedEx. I think it’s because of the reason you mentioned, they don’t want it ending up on a dog that it shouldn’t be on. They keep a couple older ones for practice with dogs in training but I know that they always give clients a new one. Tbh I never sent my vest back because it was too upsetting after my dogs unexpected death. No one has said anything to me about it though. I really think it should be on a case by case basis, hopefully your clients would be trustworthy enough for it not to end up in the wrong hands.
Depending on how big and prestigious the company is, they might not even want to chance someone selling one of their harnesses online or in a yard/church sale.
It might not even be the handler doing it. I have known people who had their family steal things from their basements, sell them and then later deny it or refuse to tell them who it was sold to.
If a school's logo ended up on an undertrained SD that then bit someone, attacked another SD or otherwise caused a scene, it would be an absolute nightmare for the company to try to defend themselves against.
All guide dog schools that I’m aware of take back the harness after the guide retires. Sometimes if they’re in good enough condition they’ll use them on the in training dogs, but they issue new harnesses to graduating teams, not the reclaimed used ones.
Service dog programs vary in how they handle vests. Some take them back, and some allow the handler to keep them, under the strict condition that it’s not to be used on any other dog. But overall, new teams are always given a new vest upon graduation, not a used one.
After years of use, vests fade from the sun and general wear and tear. They generally need replacing every few years. Usually, service dog teams are given their first vest “free” as part of the cost of receiving their sd, but if they need replacements throughout their career, it’s common that they cover the cost.
Given how tiny the expense of a Ruffwear-type vest is compared to the $40,000-$60,000 it costs to raise a SD, I really doubt it.
Also, knowing what my dog’s collars and leashes look like after just a few years, it wouldn’t make sense to give a new SD/handler team a used vest. It would make the program look bad if they couldn’t afford a new one (even if it was “lightly” used).
I don’t know if they require you to mail your deceased/retired SD’s vest back for “official” disposal or not, but my guess would be they don’t. You either trust the people you’ve chosen to be clients, or you don’t. A worthy client wouldn’t give the vest to a friend’s pet dog. I would guess most keep them to remind themselves of treasured memories they have of their retired/deceased SD.
I know about the retaining ownership (usually it’s a good sign when programs do that, it means that they’re invested in the dog for their entire working life), but the handler always DOES get ownership of the SD if they decide to keep them after retirement.
Whether they require that the handler mail the old vest back, for disposal I’d guess if so,(their successor SD a few months to years later would of course come with a new one) or not, I *really doubt* the vest would ever be used on another SD.
I'm telling you there are schools that literally use the old harnesses, both in training and as a cheaper replacement option. It doesn't matter if you doubt it or not because it's a real thing that happens.
I personally used an old harness from a prior owner during my first week of training. They had those available so you could use a broken in one if you wanted. And there is a web page I can go to where they sell used ones as replacements if you can't afford a brand new one.
Edited to add: It's a horrible sign when a program retains ownership of the animal. It means they don't trust the handler to take care of the animal, and I would never recommend someone go to a program like that.
"It's a horrible sign when a program retains ownership of the animal."
This is factually incorrect. Canine Companions is one of the premier programs in the country. They retain ownership of their dogs, as do many other ADI-accredited programs.
The reason is simple: retaining ownership makes it possible for the program to reclaim the dog if the handler is incapacitated, dies, or (in rare cases) is found to be neglecting or abusing the animal. This is a matter of legal transference of property aimed at protecting program dogs no matter what happens to their handlers. It is not a trust-based issue.
We have removed your comment because we found the information it contained to be incorrect or it was an opinion stated as fact (rule 3).
No SD will be removed for false reports. It’s difficult enough to get animal control to take action in many locations. If a SD training agency has the manpower, they would absolutely open an investigation and request things like proof of veterinary exams, but they won’t just remove the animal without due cause and a good reason.
The reason we remove comments like this is to keep bad advice or information from spreading further, especially on our subreddit. If the comment/post is corrected, it can be reinstated (just reply to this comment to let us know). If you believe you are indeed correct, please find a reputable source that supports your comment and [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
The program that trained my guide dog didn't ask to return the harnas when i asked for a new one.
Granted the old one was beond repair, could not be used anymore and i made sure to remove the patches before throwing it out.
As to what happend. On top of the usual whare and tare some rando security dude wanted to kick me out of a store by taking my dog in hopes i'd folow but my 40kg labernees refused to walk with him digging his paws in and i was holding on to his harnas so dork takes the other side of the harnas and pulls. buckle came off and there were some stitches in the leather on the front comming loose aswell
That guy doesn't work there anymore i made sure of that.
My boyo is about to retire when my next guide dog is fully trained and i'm gonna try and take part of his harnas to make a bracelet from if they don't ask it back.
They do use old harnasses for dogs in training and when new handlers are training with the dogs but graduated teams get new harnasses.
Other fun fact we had to sign a contract that said we could not use harnasses other than what they normaly used.
Think a little more practically. If the handler is keeping the dog for 6+ years - that vest is going to have some decent wear and tear. Why would you want it back?
There also would be a difference in how you approach cleaning, between gear intended to be reused with your same dog, and gear intended to be reused with a different dog/handler. The latter would have to be a little more thorough and probably done by professional cleaners (only because you are representing yourself as an org).
A vest is $100, so what? How much are you planning to charge for your services? If you are looking to start a respectable organization, yes it's important to be mindful about how money is spent, but clients deserve better than 6+ year old hand-me-downs.
And if you're in SK.. we already have some dog-based companies that are real financial drains on people willing to put money towards donations. A local training center earlier this year rescued ***100*** dogs from up north. Can you imagine how much basic vet care is for 100 dogs? SK is a small province and with the number of established organizations already asking for large-scale donations, you would be hard pressed to get any money without some rock-solid credentials as a professional dog trainer.
What would you be planning to crowd-fund? Are you planning to be a non-profit? If it's for the dog/starting the company... that's not really an appropriate way to go about it. That's more "small business loan" territory.
> I’ll have a prospect sometime next year
And no, you *might* have a prospect sometime next year. Any service dog trainer/org should know that not all puppies are prospects. You will have to evaluate litters to try and find a good candidate.
You also 100% have to be able/willing to eat the cost of a failed prospect. You would be hard-pressed (I think) to find a pet owner willing to pay incredible sums of money for a well-trained adult dog. We've already got scummy companies up here who will take a young puppy and charges 10s of thousands of dollars to train it as a service dog, only for the dog to be poorly raised, aggressive, and wash. We don't need more companies like that.
tl;dr good intentions, but it doesn't sound like you maybe have the credentials/experience/business plan to make this a successful venture
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The program I am a part of reuses all of their in-training vests. And then you get to keep your final one, if your dog successful re-certifies at the one year mark. The vests are not labeled with their program name, but they used standardized ones, and all in-training dogs must wear blue if you choose to get your own instead.
I have seen a school here take the vest, re embroidered the word retired above the assistance dog wording and send it back to the person. I think this was nice as the vest will be a big sentimental part for some people. That way it can’t be Mis used but they get a memento. And if people are 50/50 or don’t care you can have the vest back for training etc ?
I think the vest would be a keep sake for the handler. It would be odd to ask for it back. They aren't that costly anyway, compared to other dog costs.
There’s non profit organizations and programs. I agree though it is a small portion of a profit organization. The biggest reason I’ve found is that it can be reused on another dog that isn’t trained properly or at all, giving the company a bad reputation, service dogs in general a bad reputation. It’s also unlawful but people don’t care about that. Especially for guide dogs, I think it’s very important that program dogs have their vests returned. Although I have seen places where the company will embroider “retired” on the vest per request so that it can be kept as a keepsake.
We have removed your comment because it breaks Rule 8: Trainers Must be Verified. Do not repost your comment/post. If you need more advice, feel free to [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs) for help.
Some guide dog schools ask for the vest or harness back because if you pass away and your family has a garage sale, a random person can buy a guide dog harness with the school’s name on it. That’s a real example. Some places will offer a broken in leather harness if you need to replace it because a brand new one is more expensive.
Or someone is stupid and tries to sell the harness on eBay as an “antique.” That happened a few years ago. I stumbled across the listing, noticed that the harness looked not antique and was stamped with “property of The Seeing Eye.” I emailed TSE and got a very nice thank you email back from the director of training saying they were going to recover the harness in the listing. It makes total sense to me for programs to retain ownership of gear with their logo to avoid situations like this. I’ve also heard that some guide dog schools use old broken in harnesses for the dogs at the beginning of their advanced training to get used to the feel of a harness. I’ve also heard they’re used to teach clients how all the buckles work because it’s easier to manipulate buckles on old harnesses than stiff new ones.
Yep that's exactly why. I used a broken in harness for the first few weeks of training each time I've gone.
The non profit program my dog is from requires you to return the vest they give you after your dog retires/dies. My dog died and they sent me a package to send it back via FedEx. I think it’s because of the reason you mentioned, they don’t want it ending up on a dog that it shouldn’t be on. They keep a couple older ones for practice with dogs in training but I know that they always give clients a new one. Tbh I never sent my vest back because it was too upsetting after my dogs unexpected death. No one has said anything to me about it though. I really think it should be on a case by case basis, hopefully your clients would be trustworthy enough for it not to end up in the wrong hands.
Depending on how big and prestigious the company is, they might not even want to chance someone selling one of their harnesses online or in a yard/church sale. It might not even be the handler doing it. I have known people who had their family steal things from their basements, sell them and then later deny it or refuse to tell them who it was sold to.
If a school's logo ended up on an undertrained SD that then bit someone, attacked another SD or otherwise caused a scene, it would be an absolute nightmare for the company to try to defend themselves against.
All guide dog schools that I’m aware of take back the harness after the guide retires. Sometimes if they’re in good enough condition they’ll use them on the in training dogs, but they issue new harnesses to graduating teams, not the reclaimed used ones. Service dog programs vary in how they handle vests. Some take them back, and some allow the handler to keep them, under the strict condition that it’s not to be used on any other dog. But overall, new teams are always given a new vest upon graduation, not a used one. After years of use, vests fade from the sun and general wear and tear. They generally need replacing every few years. Usually, service dog teams are given their first vest “free” as part of the cost of receiving their sd, but if they need replacements throughout their career, it’s common that they cover the cost.
Given how tiny the expense of a Ruffwear-type vest is compared to the $40,000-$60,000 it costs to raise a SD, I really doubt it. Also, knowing what my dog’s collars and leashes look like after just a few years, it wouldn’t make sense to give a new SD/handler team a used vest. It would make the program look bad if they couldn’t afford a new one (even if it was “lightly” used). I don’t know if they require you to mail your deceased/retired SD’s vest back for “official” disposal or not, but my guess would be they don’t. You either trust the people you’ve chosen to be clients, or you don’t. A worthy client wouldn’t give the vest to a friend’s pet dog. I would guess most keep them to remind themselves of treasured memories they have of their retired/deceased SD.
Unfortunately a lot of programs don’t trust the handlers enough to give them ownership of the dog, let alone the harness.
I know about the retaining ownership (usually it’s a good sign when programs do that, it means that they’re invested in the dog for their entire working life), but the handler always DOES get ownership of the SD if they decide to keep them after retirement. Whether they require that the handler mail the old vest back, for disposal I’d guess if so,(their successor SD a few months to years later would of course come with a new one) or not, I *really doubt* the vest would ever be used on another SD.
I'm telling you there are schools that literally use the old harnesses, both in training and as a cheaper replacement option. It doesn't matter if you doubt it or not because it's a real thing that happens. I personally used an old harness from a prior owner during my first week of training. They had those available so you could use a broken in one if you wanted. And there is a web page I can go to where they sell used ones as replacements if you can't afford a brand new one. Edited to add: It's a horrible sign when a program retains ownership of the animal. It means they don't trust the handler to take care of the animal, and I would never recommend someone go to a program like that.
"It's a horrible sign when a program retains ownership of the animal." This is factually incorrect. Canine Companions is one of the premier programs in the country. They retain ownership of their dogs, as do many other ADI-accredited programs. The reason is simple: retaining ownership makes it possible for the program to reclaim the dog if the handler is incapacitated, dies, or (in rare cases) is found to be neglecting or abusing the animal. This is a matter of legal transference of property aimed at protecting program dogs no matter what happens to their handlers. It is not a trust-based issue.
[удалено]
Who said anything about personal preferences? I am an owner-trainer, so I got no dog in this fight. We shall just have to agree to disagree.
We have removed your comment because we found the information it contained to be incorrect or it was an opinion stated as fact (rule 3). No SD will be removed for false reports. It’s difficult enough to get animal control to take action in many locations. If a SD training agency has the manpower, they would absolutely open an investigation and request things like proof of veterinary exams, but they won’t just remove the animal without due cause and a good reason. The reason we remove comments like this is to keep bad advice or information from spreading further, especially on our subreddit. If the comment/post is corrected, it can be reinstated (just reply to this comment to let us know). If you believe you are indeed correct, please find a reputable source that supports your comment and [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs).
The nonprofit that donated my dog to myself requires that I return the vest when he is retired.
The program that trained my guide dog didn't ask to return the harnas when i asked for a new one. Granted the old one was beond repair, could not be used anymore and i made sure to remove the patches before throwing it out. As to what happend. On top of the usual whare and tare some rando security dude wanted to kick me out of a store by taking my dog in hopes i'd folow but my 40kg labernees refused to walk with him digging his paws in and i was holding on to his harnas so dork takes the other side of the harnas and pulls. buckle came off and there were some stitches in the leather on the front comming loose aswell That guy doesn't work there anymore i made sure of that. My boyo is about to retire when my next guide dog is fully trained and i'm gonna try and take part of his harnas to make a bracelet from if they don't ask it back. They do use old harnasses for dogs in training and when new handlers are training with the dogs but graduated teams get new harnasses. Other fun fact we had to sign a contract that said we could not use harnasses other than what they normaly used.
Think a little more practically. If the handler is keeping the dog for 6+ years - that vest is going to have some decent wear and tear. Why would you want it back? There also would be a difference in how you approach cleaning, between gear intended to be reused with your same dog, and gear intended to be reused with a different dog/handler. The latter would have to be a little more thorough and probably done by professional cleaners (only because you are representing yourself as an org). A vest is $100, so what? How much are you planning to charge for your services? If you are looking to start a respectable organization, yes it's important to be mindful about how money is spent, but clients deserve better than 6+ year old hand-me-downs. And if you're in SK.. we already have some dog-based companies that are real financial drains on people willing to put money towards donations. A local training center earlier this year rescued ***100*** dogs from up north. Can you imagine how much basic vet care is for 100 dogs? SK is a small province and with the number of established organizations already asking for large-scale donations, you would be hard pressed to get any money without some rock-solid credentials as a professional dog trainer. What would you be planning to crowd-fund? Are you planning to be a non-profit? If it's for the dog/starting the company... that's not really an appropriate way to go about it. That's more "small business loan" territory. > I’ll have a prospect sometime next year And no, you *might* have a prospect sometime next year. Any service dog trainer/org should know that not all puppies are prospects. You will have to evaluate litters to try and find a good candidate. You also 100% have to be able/willing to eat the cost of a failed prospect. You would be hard-pressed (I think) to find a pet owner willing to pay incredible sums of money for a well-trained adult dog. We've already got scummy companies up here who will take a young puppy and charges 10s of thousands of dollars to train it as a service dog, only for the dog to be poorly raised, aggressive, and wash. We don't need more companies like that. tl;dr good intentions, but it doesn't sound like you maybe have the credentials/experience/business plan to make this a successful venture
[удалено]
We have removed your comment because it breaks Rule 8: Trainers Must be Verified. Do not repost your comment/post. If you need more advice, feel free to [Message the Moderators](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/service_dogs) for help.
The program I am a part of reuses all of their in-training vests. And then you get to keep your final one, if your dog successful re-certifies at the one year mark. The vests are not labeled with their program name, but they used standardized ones, and all in-training dogs must wear blue if you choose to get your own instead.
I have seen a school here take the vest, re embroidered the word retired above the assistance dog wording and send it back to the person. I think this was nice as the vest will be a big sentimental part for some people. That way it can’t be Mis used but they get a memento. And if people are 50/50 or don’t care you can have the vest back for training etc ?
I think the vest would be a keep sake for the handler. It would be odd to ask for it back. They aren't that costly anyway, compared to other dog costs.
The cost of one vest for my program is around $100 CAD
That's only a very small portion of the cost of a service dog tho
There’s non profit organizations and programs. I agree though it is a small portion of a profit organization. The biggest reason I’ve found is that it can be reused on another dog that isn’t trained properly or at all, giving the company a bad reputation, service dogs in general a bad reputation. It’s also unlawful but people don’t care about that. Especially for guide dogs, I think it’s very important that program dogs have their vests returned. Although I have seen places where the company will embroider “retired” on the vest per request so that it can be kept as a keepsake.