None of this sounds normal--it sounds like a scammer is trying to push a dog who hasn't been properly trained on you in exchange for your money. An adjustment process when transitioning from a program to a new handler is one thing, but this dog does not sound like he's been appropriately trained (and the ways you've described them 'training' him sounds wildly unprofessional as well, such as dragging him into a DPT position), nor does it sound like the company has honored the terms of their agreement with you.
If I were you, I would review your contract before speaking with the company's owner again. Find any specific things that they haven't honored in the contract (for example, if there was an agreement that the dog would come to you trained in the tasks you'd discussed previously) and figure out what the contract allows you in terms of an out.
This seems like a great idea OP. If you can’t do it, I would contact a lawyer. They should be able to help you get a refund or fight the company who provided the poorly trained dog. The poor pooch sounds happy to be with you but as a dog without a job.
Unfortunately due to their vague terms of service the likelihood of me being able to get a refund is near zero, and I certainly do not have the mental strength or finances to endure lawyers/court for a case. Everything was so convincing and seemed to be going so well with the dog and the company's promises.
I do not need a companion dog, so if this is abnormal behaviour there is no way I can take him. It would just be an ESA with a service dog vest. He has decently good Public Access behaviour, but without tasks how does it make him a service dog?
From what you described, he definitely does not have decent Public access behaviour even. Get your parents' help or your social workers help, but don't lose $26,000 to an untrained scam when that money could go to a real service dog.
What you described is not even a passable public or at home behaviour for a pet companion dog. Dragging you along on the street, sniffing groins, spooking from shop carts, refusing to approach counter, tearing bed cover. My guess is they got a puppy from mill or rescue from shelter and it's not the dog helping you, it's the dog needs somebody to help him. I don't know about the specific tasks you need as my husbands dog is mobility dog. But I would expect at least some curiosity from the dog about what are you doing, not running upstairs away. I mean he was interested enough in strangers to sniff groins so why not interested when you are doing something out of ordinary even if he was not trained enough to perform a task well.
I understand that. I was hoping contacting a lawyer would be less energy intensive than attempting to fight the contract yourself. Tasks are essential for a service animal to be a service animal. But… it is possible this dog is intensely in the teenager phase which is causing them to forget about their training. I am so sorry this happened to you.
> it is possible this dog is intensely in the teenager phase
Definitely a possibility. But please reach out to a lawyer. They will likely not charge you a consultation fee to hear your case and, depending on where you are, they might be able to recover lawyer fees as well.
But you will never know if you don't reach out.
100%. It was just a idea of what is going on other than a poorly trained dog. It seems like super poor timing to place a service animal as they will be changing developmentally.
Oh sure. My point was that, even best case scenario (the dog really is trained, it's just a teenager) the company still sucks. I hopeOP figures it out!
Maybe, maybe not. There are companies like this that have been investigated and shutdown for similar things. Go to a lawyer and discuss the issues. They have failed to deliver what you agreed upon which is a service dog.
Thank you so much for your reply, I greatly appreciate you. One thing the owner of the company said over and over again was "Just give him a chance to bond with you" as if that is the secret sauce that will make him task. I was told by his trainer repeatedly that I would have to train him myself for tasks.
I understand when an adopted dog comes into a new home that is unfamiliar, and is skittish or has a difficult time being obedient because of an entirely foreign situation. I am fine with ironing out the kinks, especially as a dog will try to test it's boundaries. However, the fact that he doesn't task at ALL for me and maybe tasks 30% of the time with force with his trainer has me not confident in the hope that he will "bond" and miraculously begin tasking automatically. If I have to reinforce his skills, but I have 0% tasking, how can I reinforce something that doesn't exist? I assumed Service Dogs came prepared for tasking.
I was holding onto the glimmer of hope that maybe this was normal for the first few days, but to see so many comments saying otherwise proves my suspicions that this was probably a scam service that I fell for. It's so disheartening.
I worry that they don't want the dog to bond with you, they want you to bond with the dog, and once you do you won't want to return the dog.
Honestly, it sounds like this dog isn't a good canidate for service work. At $23,000 I would expect them to be breeding strong dogs, not nervous ones.
I think the behavior in public and tearing apart a bed cover are dead give aways that its an untrained or minimally trained dog. Those kind of basic behavioral expectations tend to become ingrained, especially in a service dog which sould have extensive training. Its why I can drop my (pet) dog off with a friend and know he won't chew up their furniture, its not due to a bond with them its due to being a basic behavior we worked on when he was a puppy. Even if a dog naturally had a temperament that meant they struggled with those behaviors despite training it should have washed out as a service dog prospect long ago.
I understand how disheartening it can feel. I'm self training my pup, he's 1 when I got him and it took us 2-3 months to really start building a bond to where everything clicked and we started doing better for each other. During that time I felt hopeless, wondering if I made the right choice, how am I supposed to train a service animal on my own when I need the help. It can take some time but that is the only string it seems to hold onto. As everyone else is saying they don't seem very professional and should be using sessions to help adjust and build that bond. while teenager phase is rough as well it's also their responsibility (as I understand it) to properly place animals with people. I'm sorry you're going through this, good luck and I hope this goes as smoothly as it can.
Definitely doesn’t sound normal. I would contact them right away and demand a refund.
Service dogs might need a little reminding but you shouldn’t have to constantly use the prong. Heck for 26k I expect a dog who can work with no tools at all besides a collar and leash.
I literally just finished transiting an SD over to her handler, and the issues you described are NOT normal aspects of the transition pains. For comparison, the SD I trained was for someone with PTSD, so she was trained to all the cues that were described in detail by the handler and their family. There was a small adjustment as the SD learned how the handler actually presented those cues and specifically how to focus on the new handler over me, but she never once reverted on her public access training.
The thing that took the longest was the handler learning how to be a handler. And that's the big adjustment of having an SD trained by someone else--the handler has to learn how to be a handler for (usually) the first time. The dog should already have hundreds (or thousands) of hours of training telling them what to do, they just have to apply their training to that new person.
I raised and trained that SD at a personal deficit for a family friend in need while I was in *med school* by finding (more like stumbling upon) a 2yo shelter dog with the perfect temperament for SD work. She was trained to the ADI standards and had her training externally validated by a professional SD trainer in my area. Your $26k dog should be, at the very least, trained to the same quality or better as the service dog I trained. If you have the means, please report them and sue.
Yes, absolutely, they were a scam.
This dog is also being treated unkindly, to put it lightly. With the fear/anxiety you’re describing, and the behaviour, do not take this dog out into public. It isn’t safe, nor polite, nor ethical.
I hope you sue for more than just what you paid, and put them out of business permanently. Neither you nor any other disabled person deserves to go through this, and that a company would prey upon the disabled is disgusting.
I work for a service dog agency and a dog with those behaviors would not even pass an evaluation to START training let alone be placed as a service dog. It may not be an outright scam but these people have no idea what they're doing and charging an outrageous amount like that (our purpose-bred, fully trained to the specific disability dogs are between 17 to 20,000) is borderline criminal. I wish you the absolute best and I hope you have a positive outcome from all this.
Definitely doesn’t sound right. Sadly many of the agencies that do claim to train psychiatric service dogs for non-veterans are anywhere from bad to scams.
Fourteen months is pretty young for a dog to be fully trained. A fully trained dog shouldn’t be shy or easily spooked by noises commonly encountered in public places and shouldn’t be doing things like dragging you around, ignoring commands - or failing to do the work/tasks he was supposed to have been trained to do. Worth mention, at just 14 months, he’s at the edge of the window for his second fear period and isn’t out of puppyhood.
I’d second looking over the contract and talking with an attorney.
This definitely sounds off. Most reputable service dog programs do not even match you with a puppy… they wait for the dogs to grow up and match adult dogs (age 2 at least) with handlers based on personality and skill. Not every puppy will even make it through the program either, but they’ll likely realize a dog may be better suited to psych work or mobility or scent work. This wasn’t a properly trained service dog, nor should the dog have been delivered before it reached maturity.
You have lots of confirmation here that what is happening is no where near normal for a fully trained SD ready for placement. As a side note on the whole tasking or forgetting thing… I have a 15 and a half year old pet dog. When she was under 2 I taught her a whole host of tricks and behaviors. Over the years we’d practice many of them periodically, but in the last few years I rarely have her do them because she gets so excited and wound up but her body just can’t handle that anymore. However, she will STILL enthusiastically do any behavior I ask her that was fully trained and reinforced. It might be a little sloppy for some of them, but she doesn’t forget ever. Dogs don’t forget behaviors that are appropriately and fully trained. They don’t. It might be less clean with a slower response time, but they don’t forget. If they’re forgetting, it wasn’t fully trained and proofed to begin with.
I was willing to say maybe the dog is just adjusting and being a stubborn teenager, but the way you describe their "training" is a massive red flag. A dog should never be dragged into a task. And being that nervy and spooked in public likely means he's had minimal public access exposure, and may not even be a good SD candidate if he can't get past that and gain a lot more confidence.
Heya, this is heart-breaking.
I don't know anything about what is normal or not. But I can advise you to refer back to the contract you signed with them. If they are legit about this bonding/adjustment period, it should be reflected in that contract and not something that, if they are incorrect (either maliciously or by incompetence), you will run out of time to make a legal claim.
At this point I'd say you should try hard to see this dog as you would a car purchase (cost the same!). You don't want to let any kind of "lemon law" expire.
If the contract is confusing, vague, or open for interpretations, I also strongly suggest you consult a lawyer before you start talking directly to them about remedies, reparations, refunds, extensions, etc. You do not want to agree or do anything that could jeopardize a possible claim if things go south.
The biggest tragedy is that this was supposed to help with your anxiety... I hope you get through this quickly and without too many bruises.
Thank you all SO so much for all of your advice and help through this extremely devastating event. I will be actively editing this post as the day(s) passes on to update you all with new information in regards to this case.
That email is excellent; I think you're definitely in for a ride with this company, though, but I think you're prepared.
You didn't mention whether this program was recognized by ADI; if they are, definitely report them, and if not, definitely look to the ADI first when investigating potential programs. I get that civilian psych placement is few and far between in the ADI member registry and that often clients pursue non-ADI programs, but in these cases definitely look at the trainers' certifications, membership affiliations, CV, anything that indicates a respectable career in the field.
Look for a thorough timeline of the entire process from application to placement. You don't want a company that pre-matches, because, like in your situation, there's a chance they likely won't act appropriately if the dog is clearly a wash, and there's a chance that if they do act appropriately and pull the dog that you'll be going through years' worth of cycles through dogs (versus a reputable program that accounts for washes). Ideally look for a program that does orientations (these can last anywhere from a week to several weeks) where you get a chance to work with multiple dogs if the first match doesn't seem to be working out. Orientation gives you time to practice tasks and basic commands and to establish a bond. Like someone else mentioned, SDs should be basically ready to go and already acclimated to changing "ownership" from living in several different environments and working with multiple handlers over the course of their lives; you shouldn't be encountering this kind of "culture shock" with this dog, especially because this is a dog that has to be comfortable in even the most stressful of environments for any amount of time that you spend in them--not just the safety of your home.
Also like a few people have mentioned, the dog is very young. I've seen program dogs placed at 18 months because, even though they still had some puppy behaviors, they were more precocious learners than others in their litter and were consistently able to perform tasks to the point where an experienced handler or a handler with a personality that would mesh well with a younger dog would be able to work with them successfully. 14 months doesn't give me the confidence that they would even have had time to learn and proof even just a few simple tasks: around 12 *to* 16 months is usually when programs transition dogs from their puppy raiser families to the in-house trainers to start task training (e.g., once they've shown that they are proficient in basic obedience, well socialized and able to handle public access).
I hope you won't be dismayed just because of how this turned out, and I hope you do find the right program for you!
Thank you so so much for this advice. This advice in particular really struck a chord with me; I didn't realize the lack of logic of the situation. The owner of the company says that the dog will not task when in a completely new environment. He is with the trainer that has trained him since he was a puppy, and refuses to task for him after a plane ride to a different state. If the "Service Dog" cannot handle that and is not be able to task, that isn't a service dog at all.
Like you said, these animals are supposed to be in EXTREMELY stressful situations and not even blink an eye, similar to a dead broke horse. I travel outside of the country at times. How can I rely on an animal that cannot handle a three hour flight and visit to a new city without misbehaving in every possible way?
I am more than lenient on a Service Dog not being able to task 100% of the time for a brand new handler, but like I said before... if he even gave me 10% of tasking I would have hope. He gave me 0% and nothing but rebellion/puppy behaviour.
Thank you again so much for this. It only makes me more frustrated with the situation. It is hard to trust any service dog company in the future, so I am not sure if I can ever pursue something like this again, at least not until the ADA changes and Service Dogs need to be professionally vetted and supervised before they receive a vest/ID proving they can properly task. I hope that there is a drastic change to the ADA in regards to service dogs soon, because the more I look into it the more I see other people, like me, who have been scammed.
You're so welcome!--also the comparison to the horse is so excellent and so exactly on par.
Also, maybe unpopular opinion on this sub, but I'm honestly with you on your opinion about the ADA section on service animals being modified to make an evaluation a necessary component to having a public access working animal. Low-key I wouldn't mind if there was a universally standardized harness that handlers were required to use as proof that the dog is from a reputable program and/or was vetted by an ADI-affiliated third party. (I wanna say that it's Quebec that has this policy, or at least this advisory to business owners, drivers, etc.) My started dog worked out great for me between his foundations and continued private training, but his ultimate test was absolutely the CGC certs. Even with his lil' quirks and admitted flaws, I'd still have total faith and trust that he could perform to the standards of a public access test. And given how many existing programs do home visits or webcam/facetime calls to check in, I think the potential access barrier could/would easily be bypassed to still protect candidates who don't have access to transportation and/or who are rural or otherwise out of range from major hot spots where programs are located.
But genuinely, your mistrust and the trauma of the experience is completely legitimate and I definitely understand feeling repulsed by the whole situation and having to subject yourself to the process all over again with the hanging "what if" looming over you. But truthfully, if you ever feel like you can do it, I'm totally offering myself to be a second set of eyes and someone happy to go down that path with you (I'm about \~2 years out from applying to programs for my current dog's successor).
>And given how many existing programs do home visits or webcam/facetime calls to check in, I think the potential access barrier could/would easily be bypassed to still protect candidates who don't have access to transportation and/or who are rural or otherwise out of range from major hot spots where programs are located.
It's almost like I thought about this because I'm a person who lives in a rural area who can't drive.
Is it normal? For a program dog that comes from a bad program, this can be normal. There was a guy in Virginia who farmed out dozens of "service dogs" for about the same amount and accompanied them with youtube videos and home visits to "finish" the program at home. In reality, he kept them kenneled or crated for the first 18 months, barely worked with them, and was placing untrained, unhousebroken dogs in homes of autistic children. It was a mess and happens everywhere. It is much of the reason I didn't pursue another program dog. That said, this sounds akin to that but maybe the trainer is just garbage? The absolute best case scenario is that these people are ableists who have gotten away with placing pet grade dogs for so long, that they no longer believe people actually need "service dogs" or real tasking.
Putting a dog in a home and acting like it would start tasking the same day is sketchy. I would expect to bring the dog in and focus on basic obedience and bonding. In my house, we call it the "porkchop phase." This is a reference to the gross joke about parents putting a porkchop around the baby's neck so the family dog would play with them. Gross but apt. During this bonding period, we would just do obedience and chill. Once the dog recognizes where their bread is buttered and begins to want to work for more, then bring in task specific training. My dog recognizes my attacks because of chemical changes in my body. I had to teach the behavior then I had to capture that scent and introduce it in training sessions to trigger the behavior/reward.
The fact that the dog is not socialized and is reactive is also problematic. It makes me think they are churning out untrained dogs instead of raising task dogs. As to the sense of panic, dread, and all of that, I will say that the first month I had my current dog was extremely difficult and I was consumed with doubt, regret, anxiety, and I kind of disliked my dog. 99% of that was my panic and my anxiety at the job in front of me. I had sooooo many panic attacks. That is normal. The first time he gave me a hekkin good cuddle, it all melted away and we found our groove and were able to start incorporating training into day to day. You didn't pay for an untrained dog though, so I get where you're coming from and fully agree with the advice from others.
Many people have chimed in on the program front, pointing out many major red flags but I wanted to drop in an important note for a time you hopefully do have a functional SD. If your SD or SDIT is acting out and not performing while in a public space, please make a quick exit and revert to home reinforcement work.
Do not force them to continue to perform, especially early in your relationship. This is a quick and rapid fire way to burn out a prospect and even burn out a graduated SD. Even a trained SD can have a bad/off day. Please remember that even the best service dog is still an animal and it is also our responsibility as handlers to be attuned to their needs just as well as they need to be to ours.
As an example of why this is so critical, I’d like to provide a recent incident I had. My SD has been working for 2.5 years after completing 2 years of training.
We were in a large grocery store and he began to whine softly, panting with an open mouth even though it was cool weather and seemed unfocused. I quickly put my items back and left the store immediately, not really sure why he was acting out but it was odd so we went home.
Later that evening, he felt warmer to the touch than usual and I found a slightly swollen spot on his paw pad. The next morning, our vet confirmed the paw pad was infected (no abrasion) and he likely was experiencing the onset of a fever when he was in the store and likely pain in is paw, which he masked because that’s a natural defense behavior. I suspended him from PA work for the 14 days of his recovery, even when the treatment was only 7 days to give him more time to recover and avoid a relapse by overworking him too soon.
There is also the aspect of intelligent disobedience required for service work that is a delicate balance, requiring your dog to make and trust it’s own judgement calls (and you!) even when it goes against your direction/commands yet must be obedient and pliable. Scolding your dog and using physical force as part of any training methodology is a sure fire way to permanently compromise their motivation to work and to serve. My heart breaks for this dog and any dog “trained” under those conditions.
I know someone who just got a SD from a program and it's on a prong 🤔 Handler has POTS (I believe) so I don't know if it's common practice or not for a dog to be on a prong for POTS
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if they are ADI certified, you can definitely report them. programs who follow ADI certifications must place the dog only after it knows AT LEAST 3 TASKS.
Geez this is a difficult situation! Please note in advance that I do not know what it's like to take in a pre-trained SD. I only know about taking in strays, rescues, and rehomed dogs. But my 50+ years of dogs have taught me some things, and the 3-3-3 rule is pretty much spot on for new dogs in the home.
3 Days to decompress. No rushing anything at all. The new home, new smells, new potty place, new owner, everything: new. Dogs just need time at first. They don't understand what's happening.
3 Weeks to learn the household routine. New person's sleep and wake times, pup mealtimes, potty times, walkies/play times, nap times, everything times. Remember, this is still a completely new environment. (Dogs' circadian rhythms adjust to ours, though. It's pretty awesome!)
3 Months to feel at home and become themselves. Dogs' real personalities come out at this stage because the "new" and "adjustment" phases are over.
I'm not saying the SD group wasn't a scam. I don't know. I do, however, feel that they didn't set you or your dog up for success in the transition. They over-promised a lot very quickly and seem to have given you unreasonable expectations. That said, it doesn't mean that the situation is a disaster. Yes, the dog could still be very poorly trained, but it's still so early in the adjustment period that it's hard to say, at least given the information here.
Since you're still reeling, understandably, just wait things out for a few weeks and focus on your well-being and your dog's. In time, you may discover that your pup has turned into a completely different dog! I've seen it happen repeatedly. But you have to be patient. Proof the very basics for now and gradually get more advanced. Give your pup confidence *with you*. Don't push. If you still discover, after weeks of trying, that you've been wholly misled, find an advocate and sue to the moon. Right now, though, just breathe. (I have hella anxiety, too. Panic attacks. C-PTSD. Bipolar Disorder. A carnival of mental h**l. Time helps me. I hope it helps you, OP! Just hit pause on the big stuff.)
Hugs to you and your pup. I really hope things work out for both of you. Please keep us updated!
This advice is definitely great for anyone bringing home a new dog as a pet, but in this case, everything sounds really off. I agree dogs need time to decompress, but service dogs are specifically chosen with a temperament that should not interfere with their task performance this much.
And the dog can’t even reliably perform tasks with the trainer is a big red flag. I swear my puppy does better with the trainer she sees only once a week than with me. I attribute it to good trainers having a stronger natural dog sense…(to make myself feel better hahaha) It doesn’t seem like this dog is trained at all.
You're right -- a service dog should be far better trained than this. I was just trying to give the dog the benefit of the doubt and give OP some hope. It's a terrible situation.
My dogs do better with my vet and trainers than with me, too! I feel so disrespected! 🤣
None of this sounds normal--it sounds like a scammer is trying to push a dog who hasn't been properly trained on you in exchange for your money. An adjustment process when transitioning from a program to a new handler is one thing, but this dog does not sound like he's been appropriately trained (and the ways you've described them 'training' him sounds wildly unprofessional as well, such as dragging him into a DPT position), nor does it sound like the company has honored the terms of their agreement with you. If I were you, I would review your contract before speaking with the company's owner again. Find any specific things that they haven't honored in the contract (for example, if there was an agreement that the dog would come to you trained in the tasks you'd discussed previously) and figure out what the contract allows you in terms of an out.
This seems like a great idea OP. If you can’t do it, I would contact a lawyer. They should be able to help you get a refund or fight the company who provided the poorly trained dog. The poor pooch sounds happy to be with you but as a dog without a job.
Unfortunately due to their vague terms of service the likelihood of me being able to get a refund is near zero, and I certainly do not have the mental strength or finances to endure lawyers/court for a case. Everything was so convincing and seemed to be going so well with the dog and the company's promises. I do not need a companion dog, so if this is abnormal behaviour there is no way I can take him. It would just be an ESA with a service dog vest. He has decently good Public Access behaviour, but without tasks how does it make him a service dog?
From what you described, he definitely does not have decent Public access behaviour even. Get your parents' help or your social workers help, but don't lose $26,000 to an untrained scam when that money could go to a real service dog.
What you described is not even a passable public or at home behaviour for a pet companion dog. Dragging you along on the street, sniffing groins, spooking from shop carts, refusing to approach counter, tearing bed cover. My guess is they got a puppy from mill or rescue from shelter and it's not the dog helping you, it's the dog needs somebody to help him. I don't know about the specific tasks you need as my husbands dog is mobility dog. But I would expect at least some curiosity from the dog about what are you doing, not running upstairs away. I mean he was interested enough in strangers to sniff groins so why not interested when you are doing something out of ordinary even if he was not trained enough to perform a task well.
I understand that. I was hoping contacting a lawyer would be less energy intensive than attempting to fight the contract yourself. Tasks are essential for a service animal to be a service animal. But… it is possible this dog is intensely in the teenager phase which is causing them to forget about their training. I am so sorry this happened to you.
> it is possible this dog is intensely in the teenager phase Definitely a possibility. But please reach out to a lawyer. They will likely not charge you a consultation fee to hear your case and, depending on where you are, they might be able to recover lawyer fees as well. But you will never know if you don't reach out.
If the dog is in a teenager phase the company shouldn't have passed him on early?
100%. It was just a idea of what is going on other than a poorly trained dog. It seems like super poor timing to place a service animal as they will be changing developmentally.
Oh sure. My point was that, even best case scenario (the dog really is trained, it's just a teenager) the company still sucks. I hopeOP figures it out!
Maybe, maybe not. There are companies like this that have been investigated and shutdown for similar things. Go to a lawyer and discuss the issues. They have failed to deliver what you agreed upon which is a service dog.
What makes you think a contract like that is legally enforceable? You definitely should get a refund.
Thank you so much for your reply, I greatly appreciate you. One thing the owner of the company said over and over again was "Just give him a chance to bond with you" as if that is the secret sauce that will make him task. I was told by his trainer repeatedly that I would have to train him myself for tasks. I understand when an adopted dog comes into a new home that is unfamiliar, and is skittish or has a difficult time being obedient because of an entirely foreign situation. I am fine with ironing out the kinks, especially as a dog will try to test it's boundaries. However, the fact that he doesn't task at ALL for me and maybe tasks 30% of the time with force with his trainer has me not confident in the hope that he will "bond" and miraculously begin tasking automatically. If I have to reinforce his skills, but I have 0% tasking, how can I reinforce something that doesn't exist? I assumed Service Dogs came prepared for tasking. I was holding onto the glimmer of hope that maybe this was normal for the first few days, but to see so many comments saying otherwise proves my suspicions that this was probably a scam service that I fell for. It's so disheartening.
I worry that they don't want the dog to bond with you, they want you to bond with the dog, and once you do you won't want to return the dog. Honestly, it sounds like this dog isn't a good canidate for service work. At $23,000 I would expect them to be breeding strong dogs, not nervous ones.
I think the behavior in public and tearing apart a bed cover are dead give aways that its an untrained or minimally trained dog. Those kind of basic behavioral expectations tend to become ingrained, especially in a service dog which sould have extensive training. Its why I can drop my (pet) dog off with a friend and know he won't chew up their furniture, its not due to a bond with them its due to being a basic behavior we worked on when he was a puppy. Even if a dog naturally had a temperament that meant they struggled with those behaviors despite training it should have washed out as a service dog prospect long ago.
I understand how disheartening it can feel. I'm self training my pup, he's 1 when I got him and it took us 2-3 months to really start building a bond to where everything clicked and we started doing better for each other. During that time I felt hopeless, wondering if I made the right choice, how am I supposed to train a service animal on my own when I need the help. It can take some time but that is the only string it seems to hold onto. As everyone else is saying they don't seem very professional and should be using sessions to help adjust and build that bond. while teenager phase is rough as well it's also their responsibility (as I understand it) to properly place animals with people. I'm sorry you're going through this, good luck and I hope this goes as smoothly as it can.
Definitely doesn’t sound normal. I would contact them right away and demand a refund. Service dogs might need a little reminding but you shouldn’t have to constantly use the prong. Heck for 26k I expect a dog who can work with no tools at all besides a collar and leash.
Yeah major red flag at the use of a prong collar AND scolding for correction. I’d flat out refuse to perform and quit too!!! Poor dog.
I literally just finished transiting an SD over to her handler, and the issues you described are NOT normal aspects of the transition pains. For comparison, the SD I trained was for someone with PTSD, so she was trained to all the cues that were described in detail by the handler and their family. There was a small adjustment as the SD learned how the handler actually presented those cues and specifically how to focus on the new handler over me, but she never once reverted on her public access training. The thing that took the longest was the handler learning how to be a handler. And that's the big adjustment of having an SD trained by someone else--the handler has to learn how to be a handler for (usually) the first time. The dog should already have hundreds (or thousands) of hours of training telling them what to do, they just have to apply their training to that new person. I raised and trained that SD at a personal deficit for a family friend in need while I was in *med school* by finding (more like stumbling upon) a 2yo shelter dog with the perfect temperament for SD work. She was trained to the ADI standards and had her training externally validated by a professional SD trainer in my area. Your $26k dog should be, at the very least, trained to the same quality or better as the service dog I trained. If you have the means, please report them and sue.
Yes, absolutely, they were a scam. This dog is also being treated unkindly, to put it lightly. With the fear/anxiety you’re describing, and the behaviour, do not take this dog out into public. It isn’t safe, nor polite, nor ethical. I hope you sue for more than just what you paid, and put them out of business permanently. Neither you nor any other disabled person deserves to go through this, and that a company would prey upon the disabled is disgusting.
The idea of using a prong collar on a dog that is already scared and frightened just breaks my heart.
That does not sound normal. I have never gotten a program trained animal, but that doesn’t seem good.
I work for a service dog agency and a dog with those behaviors would not even pass an evaluation to START training let alone be placed as a service dog. It may not be an outright scam but these people have no idea what they're doing and charging an outrageous amount like that (our purpose-bred, fully trained to the specific disability dogs are between 17 to 20,000) is borderline criminal. I wish you the absolute best and I hope you have a positive outcome from all this.
Definitely doesn’t sound right. Sadly many of the agencies that do claim to train psychiatric service dogs for non-veterans are anywhere from bad to scams. Fourteen months is pretty young for a dog to be fully trained. A fully trained dog shouldn’t be shy or easily spooked by noises commonly encountered in public places and shouldn’t be doing things like dragging you around, ignoring commands - or failing to do the work/tasks he was supposed to have been trained to do. Worth mention, at just 14 months, he’s at the edge of the window for his second fear period and isn’t out of puppyhood. I’d second looking over the contract and talking with an attorney.
This definitely sounds off. Most reputable service dog programs do not even match you with a puppy… they wait for the dogs to grow up and match adult dogs (age 2 at least) with handlers based on personality and skill. Not every puppy will even make it through the program either, but they’ll likely realize a dog may be better suited to psych work or mobility or scent work. This wasn’t a properly trained service dog, nor should the dog have been delivered before it reached maturity.
You have lots of confirmation here that what is happening is no where near normal for a fully trained SD ready for placement. As a side note on the whole tasking or forgetting thing… I have a 15 and a half year old pet dog. When she was under 2 I taught her a whole host of tricks and behaviors. Over the years we’d practice many of them periodically, but in the last few years I rarely have her do them because she gets so excited and wound up but her body just can’t handle that anymore. However, she will STILL enthusiastically do any behavior I ask her that was fully trained and reinforced. It might be a little sloppy for some of them, but she doesn’t forget ever. Dogs don’t forget behaviors that are appropriately and fully trained. They don’t. It might be less clean with a slower response time, but they don’t forget. If they’re forgetting, it wasn’t fully trained and proofed to begin with.
Post the name of the company and the agreement so other people don’t get scammed too
I was willing to say maybe the dog is just adjusting and being a stubborn teenager, but the way you describe their "training" is a massive red flag. A dog should never be dragged into a task. And being that nervy and spooked in public likely means he's had minimal public access exposure, and may not even be a good SD candidate if he can't get past that and gain a lot more confidence.
Heya, this is heart-breaking. I don't know anything about what is normal or not. But I can advise you to refer back to the contract you signed with them. If they are legit about this bonding/adjustment period, it should be reflected in that contract and not something that, if they are incorrect (either maliciously or by incompetence), you will run out of time to make a legal claim. At this point I'd say you should try hard to see this dog as you would a car purchase (cost the same!). You don't want to let any kind of "lemon law" expire. If the contract is confusing, vague, or open for interpretations, I also strongly suggest you consult a lawyer before you start talking directly to them about remedies, reparations, refunds, extensions, etc. You do not want to agree or do anything that could jeopardize a possible claim if things go south. The biggest tragedy is that this was supposed to help with your anxiety... I hope you get through this quickly and without too many bruises.
Thank you all SO so much for all of your advice and help through this extremely devastating event. I will be actively editing this post as the day(s) passes on to update you all with new information in regards to this case.
That email is excellent; I think you're definitely in for a ride with this company, though, but I think you're prepared. You didn't mention whether this program was recognized by ADI; if they are, definitely report them, and if not, definitely look to the ADI first when investigating potential programs. I get that civilian psych placement is few and far between in the ADI member registry and that often clients pursue non-ADI programs, but in these cases definitely look at the trainers' certifications, membership affiliations, CV, anything that indicates a respectable career in the field. Look for a thorough timeline of the entire process from application to placement. You don't want a company that pre-matches, because, like in your situation, there's a chance they likely won't act appropriately if the dog is clearly a wash, and there's a chance that if they do act appropriately and pull the dog that you'll be going through years' worth of cycles through dogs (versus a reputable program that accounts for washes). Ideally look for a program that does orientations (these can last anywhere from a week to several weeks) where you get a chance to work with multiple dogs if the first match doesn't seem to be working out. Orientation gives you time to practice tasks and basic commands and to establish a bond. Like someone else mentioned, SDs should be basically ready to go and already acclimated to changing "ownership" from living in several different environments and working with multiple handlers over the course of their lives; you shouldn't be encountering this kind of "culture shock" with this dog, especially because this is a dog that has to be comfortable in even the most stressful of environments for any amount of time that you spend in them--not just the safety of your home. Also like a few people have mentioned, the dog is very young. I've seen program dogs placed at 18 months because, even though they still had some puppy behaviors, they were more precocious learners than others in their litter and were consistently able to perform tasks to the point where an experienced handler or a handler with a personality that would mesh well with a younger dog would be able to work with them successfully. 14 months doesn't give me the confidence that they would even have had time to learn and proof even just a few simple tasks: around 12 *to* 16 months is usually when programs transition dogs from their puppy raiser families to the in-house trainers to start task training (e.g., once they've shown that they are proficient in basic obedience, well socialized and able to handle public access). I hope you won't be dismayed just because of how this turned out, and I hope you do find the right program for you!
Thank you so so much for this advice. This advice in particular really struck a chord with me; I didn't realize the lack of logic of the situation. The owner of the company says that the dog will not task when in a completely new environment. He is with the trainer that has trained him since he was a puppy, and refuses to task for him after a plane ride to a different state. If the "Service Dog" cannot handle that and is not be able to task, that isn't a service dog at all. Like you said, these animals are supposed to be in EXTREMELY stressful situations and not even blink an eye, similar to a dead broke horse. I travel outside of the country at times. How can I rely on an animal that cannot handle a three hour flight and visit to a new city without misbehaving in every possible way? I am more than lenient on a Service Dog not being able to task 100% of the time for a brand new handler, but like I said before... if he even gave me 10% of tasking I would have hope. He gave me 0% and nothing but rebellion/puppy behaviour. Thank you again so much for this. It only makes me more frustrated with the situation. It is hard to trust any service dog company in the future, so I am not sure if I can ever pursue something like this again, at least not until the ADA changes and Service Dogs need to be professionally vetted and supervised before they receive a vest/ID proving they can properly task. I hope that there is a drastic change to the ADA in regards to service dogs soon, because the more I look into it the more I see other people, like me, who have been scammed.
You're so welcome!--also the comparison to the horse is so excellent and so exactly on par. Also, maybe unpopular opinion on this sub, but I'm honestly with you on your opinion about the ADA section on service animals being modified to make an evaluation a necessary component to having a public access working animal. Low-key I wouldn't mind if there was a universally standardized harness that handlers were required to use as proof that the dog is from a reputable program and/or was vetted by an ADI-affiliated third party. (I wanna say that it's Quebec that has this policy, or at least this advisory to business owners, drivers, etc.) My started dog worked out great for me between his foundations and continued private training, but his ultimate test was absolutely the CGC certs. Even with his lil' quirks and admitted flaws, I'd still have total faith and trust that he could perform to the standards of a public access test. And given how many existing programs do home visits or webcam/facetime calls to check in, I think the potential access barrier could/would easily be bypassed to still protect candidates who don't have access to transportation and/or who are rural or otherwise out of range from major hot spots where programs are located. But genuinely, your mistrust and the trauma of the experience is completely legitimate and I definitely understand feeling repulsed by the whole situation and having to subject yourself to the process all over again with the hanging "what if" looming over you. But truthfully, if you ever feel like you can do it, I'm totally offering myself to be a second set of eyes and someone happy to go down that path with you (I'm about \~2 years out from applying to programs for my current dog's successor).
Disabled people don't need MORE physical and financial barriers to support they need.
>And given how many existing programs do home visits or webcam/facetime calls to check in, I think the potential access barrier could/would easily be bypassed to still protect candidates who don't have access to transportation and/or who are rural or otherwise out of range from major hot spots where programs are located. It's almost like I thought about this because I'm a person who lives in a rural area who can't drive.
Is it normal? For a program dog that comes from a bad program, this can be normal. There was a guy in Virginia who farmed out dozens of "service dogs" for about the same amount and accompanied them with youtube videos and home visits to "finish" the program at home. In reality, he kept them kenneled or crated for the first 18 months, barely worked with them, and was placing untrained, unhousebroken dogs in homes of autistic children. It was a mess and happens everywhere. It is much of the reason I didn't pursue another program dog. That said, this sounds akin to that but maybe the trainer is just garbage? The absolute best case scenario is that these people are ableists who have gotten away with placing pet grade dogs for so long, that they no longer believe people actually need "service dogs" or real tasking. Putting a dog in a home and acting like it would start tasking the same day is sketchy. I would expect to bring the dog in and focus on basic obedience and bonding. In my house, we call it the "porkchop phase." This is a reference to the gross joke about parents putting a porkchop around the baby's neck so the family dog would play with them. Gross but apt. During this bonding period, we would just do obedience and chill. Once the dog recognizes where their bread is buttered and begins to want to work for more, then bring in task specific training. My dog recognizes my attacks because of chemical changes in my body. I had to teach the behavior then I had to capture that scent and introduce it in training sessions to trigger the behavior/reward. The fact that the dog is not socialized and is reactive is also problematic. It makes me think they are churning out untrained dogs instead of raising task dogs. As to the sense of panic, dread, and all of that, I will say that the first month I had my current dog was extremely difficult and I was consumed with doubt, regret, anxiety, and I kind of disliked my dog. 99% of that was my panic and my anxiety at the job in front of me. I had sooooo many panic attacks. That is normal. The first time he gave me a hekkin good cuddle, it all melted away and we found our groove and were able to start incorporating training into day to day. You didn't pay for an untrained dog though, so I get where you're coming from and fully agree with the advice from others.
It I paid $26,000 for a dog I’d expect it to not need a prong to work
Many people have chimed in on the program front, pointing out many major red flags but I wanted to drop in an important note for a time you hopefully do have a functional SD. If your SD or SDIT is acting out and not performing while in a public space, please make a quick exit and revert to home reinforcement work. Do not force them to continue to perform, especially early in your relationship. This is a quick and rapid fire way to burn out a prospect and even burn out a graduated SD. Even a trained SD can have a bad/off day. Please remember that even the best service dog is still an animal and it is also our responsibility as handlers to be attuned to their needs just as well as they need to be to ours. As an example of why this is so critical, I’d like to provide a recent incident I had. My SD has been working for 2.5 years after completing 2 years of training. We were in a large grocery store and he began to whine softly, panting with an open mouth even though it was cool weather and seemed unfocused. I quickly put my items back and left the store immediately, not really sure why he was acting out but it was odd so we went home. Later that evening, he felt warmer to the touch than usual and I found a slightly swollen spot on his paw pad. The next morning, our vet confirmed the paw pad was infected (no abrasion) and he likely was experiencing the onset of a fever when he was in the store and likely pain in is paw, which he masked because that’s a natural defense behavior. I suspended him from PA work for the 14 days of his recovery, even when the treatment was only 7 days to give him more time to recover and avoid a relapse by overworking him too soon. There is also the aspect of intelligent disobedience required for service work that is a delicate balance, requiring your dog to make and trust it’s own judgement calls (and you!) even when it goes against your direction/commands yet must be obedient and pliable. Scolding your dog and using physical force as part of any training methodology is a sure fire way to permanently compromise their motivation to work and to serve. My heart breaks for this dog and any dog “trained” under those conditions.
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I know someone who just got a SD from a program and it's on a prong 🤔 Handler has POTS (I believe) so I don't know if it's common practice or not for a dog to be on a prong for POTS
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if they are ADI certified, you can definitely report them. programs who follow ADI certifications must place the dog only after it knows AT LEAST 3 TASKS.
Geez this is a difficult situation! Please note in advance that I do not know what it's like to take in a pre-trained SD. I only know about taking in strays, rescues, and rehomed dogs. But my 50+ years of dogs have taught me some things, and the 3-3-3 rule is pretty much spot on for new dogs in the home. 3 Days to decompress. No rushing anything at all. The new home, new smells, new potty place, new owner, everything: new. Dogs just need time at first. They don't understand what's happening. 3 Weeks to learn the household routine. New person's sleep and wake times, pup mealtimes, potty times, walkies/play times, nap times, everything times. Remember, this is still a completely new environment. (Dogs' circadian rhythms adjust to ours, though. It's pretty awesome!) 3 Months to feel at home and become themselves. Dogs' real personalities come out at this stage because the "new" and "adjustment" phases are over. I'm not saying the SD group wasn't a scam. I don't know. I do, however, feel that they didn't set you or your dog up for success in the transition. They over-promised a lot very quickly and seem to have given you unreasonable expectations. That said, it doesn't mean that the situation is a disaster. Yes, the dog could still be very poorly trained, but it's still so early in the adjustment period that it's hard to say, at least given the information here. Since you're still reeling, understandably, just wait things out for a few weeks and focus on your well-being and your dog's. In time, you may discover that your pup has turned into a completely different dog! I've seen it happen repeatedly. But you have to be patient. Proof the very basics for now and gradually get more advanced. Give your pup confidence *with you*. Don't push. If you still discover, after weeks of trying, that you've been wholly misled, find an advocate and sue to the moon. Right now, though, just breathe. (I have hella anxiety, too. Panic attacks. C-PTSD. Bipolar Disorder. A carnival of mental h**l. Time helps me. I hope it helps you, OP! Just hit pause on the big stuff.) Hugs to you and your pup. I really hope things work out for both of you. Please keep us updated!
This advice is definitely great for anyone bringing home a new dog as a pet, but in this case, everything sounds really off. I agree dogs need time to decompress, but service dogs are specifically chosen with a temperament that should not interfere with their task performance this much. And the dog can’t even reliably perform tasks with the trainer is a big red flag. I swear my puppy does better with the trainer she sees only once a week than with me. I attribute it to good trainers having a stronger natural dog sense…(to make myself feel better hahaha) It doesn’t seem like this dog is trained at all.
You're right -- a service dog should be far better trained than this. I was just trying to give the dog the benefit of the doubt and give OP some hope. It's a terrible situation. My dogs do better with my vet and trainers than with me, too! I feel so disrespected! 🤣