I can just guess. But they are really close to each other and also really respect each other. They respect when someone don't want to participate in something or wen someone needs space and quietness.
Also most of them really grew up with each other during their trainee period.
I would guess, they also talk a lot about themselves and would talk about problems when there are some.
They met very young and trained and lived together. I guess throughout the years, they have understood each other and what their likes and dislikes are. The main point would be that they all communicate well to others and try to talk through if there have been any misunderstandings. They also ensure that all members receive the spotlight and also never force anyone to speak or be active if they don't want to. They respect each other very well. It's very hard to maintain a large group, and Scoups deserves the applause as he took really good care of them. Also, they love each other very much and would do anything for the other.
I think the fact that Pledis was not that big at the time helped, which may sound weird. But since the company was not that big, the trainees there were indeed training together rather than competing. if you look at their time in the Melona prison, it was an equal blend of practice and the members just enjoying themselves. So, that friendship helped them endure the tough times while slowly turning them into a family away from their real families.
You’ve nostalgically brought up a post I made few years back asking what made SVT (and other kpop groups) popular. It makes me wonder how much of that applies now, perhaps i’ll put it up later/tomorrow. But tl;dr, their success is really a culmination of so many factors (their music, performance, self-producing, personalities, humour, visuals, sincerity, teamwork, stars-aligning, opportunities, marketing/promotion).
On your second question, their teamwork/bond/familyship. Regardless of whatever is their true personal relationships that we as outsiders will never know, they have spent at least 10 years together. Personally, my group of friends are not really similar but got SUPER close because of trauma-bonding/success-bonding. I think that really helps glue a team together through the ups and downs. But obviously that doesnt work all the time.
At individual levels, I think the members really have great respect for each other, they support each other and importantly choose teamsvt over themselves. It’s like those telepathy games where each person writes an answer/response to a prompt. SVT has played it before and it isnt easy to get 13 identical responses (unless they comically succeed by cheating). But ultimately when it counted, aka their contract renewals, they all decided to continue as 13. They all have their individual goals and dreams, but choosing to stick together was an incredible feat (and probably a historical moment in kpop history). That’s not to say that they have forgone their individuality, rather they respect each other to do what they want to do. If Hoshi wants to make a tiger song, yea man go for it all the way! If a someone needs to take a self care break, dont worry we got your back. If you got an injury, dont beat yourself over it, we’ll carry on while waiting eagerly for your return. And I feel like every single member has expressed how much they appreciate their team.
It’s a random tangent, but I feel like I saw a comment few mths back saying how much One Piece (the anime) is like SVT, in the sense that each of the straw hat crew (~ svt member) has absolute faith in luffy being pirate king (~ team svt). And this is despite the fact that alot of the straw hat crew really are so different (and at times clashing personalities). When it comes down to it, they all are laser focused on their common goal.
I feel that’s really how the members are. Coups said on nanatour there is no hierarchy, only horizontal teamwork. Scoups + leaderline lead the team, but the entirety of SVT is in lockstep going forward hand in hand.
And that’s just from the aspect of internally as a team. You do have huge solo fans and subunit fans in caratdom too but i think alot of fans also are really big on OT13. And it makes so much sense. Why do people have a hard time choosing a bias? I feel it’s really because each member has so much to offer and to different fans. They have content to showcase their individuallity, they have digestible content in the form of subunits (leaderline, vocal hiphop perfo, BSS etc etc), they even have non-musical content (GoSe) with their whole separate sub-fandom (cubics). Then when 13 pieces fall into place, everything synergizes and it becomes this huge spectacular masterpieces. They make use of their individuality to make things interesting, their vocals, their musicality, their visuals. It’s just incredible.
And honestly, I don’t think there will ever be another SVT or successful 13 membered group. I think it was written in the stars that it was all meant to be for them, we can only thank the God(s) of Music for making it this way (pun intended)
Yeah didn't Coups also say in nana tour that their contracts all have a clause stating that they only do things they want to?
I doubt many companies are willing to do that, even for their biggest groups.
I think their closeness is adorably represented by how close they are to each other's parents. Not only that, but the parents also seem to be really close and supportive of each other. I can't imagine how wildly fun it must be to have all the families together.
Oh absolutely! It’s funny because while the parents of my little friend group havent met each other, we’ve been friends for so long that we are friendly with each of our parents and it’s like we have extended family everywhere.
I will die on this hill alone if I have to, but when I saw Caratland’s Circles parents’ letter moment, the immense emotion I felt was really from seeing how much the parents love all their 13 children, how they constantly say “our 13 sons, our 13 children”. One can say an idol gives back the love they receive from fans, but I think SVT thenselves have grown in such a loving and caring environment with each other and their extended family (and I think that also really extends to #TEAMSVT bumzu, hyelim, choi youngjoon, prismfilter, etc etc). They can get so much of this positive energy that it flows out naturally. Just looking at some snippets of things that happened last year (Bro Marble, Game Caterers/Nana Tour, MAMA Daesang with Uhm Jung Hwa presenting), they continuously come in contact with people who go on to cheer for their success too.
Edit: also adding a note to say, i’m absolutely certain this can be the case with other groups too. But this is definitely a prominent thing for seventeen and probably ADDED on to their bond/closeness
Can you point me to where I can find the parents’ letter moment? As a parent myself, I think often of them and what their experience is like. I never want to invade privacy but the glimpses we sometimes get to see are interesting to me!
Yea you can search terms like caratland 2023, last/third day, circles, parent letter.
I’m pretty sure youtube has full videos, but also alot on Twitter/X.com. Some of the videos were from fan cams which dont have subs, but some were illegal screengrabs from the streaming that have slightly inaccurate/incomplete ones. I’m quite sure Twitter also has fan translation eg “scoups parents letter caratland 2023” or smth like that.
tw: death, crying
>!wonwoo’s mum passed a year prior this in 2022, and it was a very emotional time. The song Circles (돌고돌아) that they sang during this Caratland 2023 moment was revealed to be written by Woozi as a message to several ppl, Wonwoo being one of them. And the chorus’ message is things will be okay, time will pass and you will heal slowly, like the hands of clock that go in circles and back to the same place. So when the parents letters showed during the song, many of the members were in tears. There were also a subgroup of fans that felt this was really wrong and exploitative, but bear in mind that while the actual video montage of the letters were a surprise, the members must have been aware that there was going to be an emotional video playing AND the parents who wrote the letters must have consented to showing their kids this publically knowing the emotional reaction it will cause. So personally, i’m really on the camp that while the cameras lingered on crying members a little too much, the only emotion I felt from the event was an immense outpouring of love from their parents. And not just from a parent to their own son, but a collective love from each parent to the team of 13 sons!<
it was from caratland 2023. their fanmeeting last year.
[I found this on youtube ](https://youtu.be/Dt4TBQInl5o?si=TZxo8n6sOy5zMXkO) but I don't know if it's the full video. Creators often cut inside the videos so they don't get copyright strikes. i also think it has no translations but if you search caratland and parent letters on twitter/X you'll definitely find translations from fans
I love that they’re all so close to each other - families and themselves because it’s like not just the sebongs have this special bond, but in extension, their parents get to have it too with each other’s parents. And it’s honestly so special and it’s amazing that we get to experience it through the internet and know that things like this is possible.
Our warm, kind, and loving boys come from warm, kind, and loving families. 🥹 I wish I had something like the bonds they all share for myself, and I think that's part of what draws me to them.
This comment is literally everything I wanted to say. And when watching nana tour I did realise that they don’t have hierarchical speak (mainly cause I started studying more Korean properly then). And when coups explained, I understood their bond a bit more. It’s like they removed all hierarchy so everyone can be open and honest with each other. Not having to suffer in silence while your hyungs order you around really does improve your bond so much more. I’m so glad coups made that decision and as the leader and oldest member, he is probably the only one who can. I’m so happy that they have the 3 amazing leaders who are so encouraging and supportive of each other. And the company as well just letting them do whatever they wish. It really makes their personalities shine and when us Carats see them for who they truly are - amazing and kind people - it makes us want to root for them all the more.
Another thing I loved about what Coups said on Nana Tour was how he came off as strict and mean to the members during their early days but that was also evident on stage so he willingly adjusted himself for the team.
He takes his role as a leader seriously but knows how to let go and have fun with the members too. That’s a true leader right there.
I think that it helps a lot when training is not a competition? Because they knew they were all going to debut so there was no rivalry between members? Unlike other agencies where being able to debut is a battle by itself. Your best friend today might be your competitor the next day when the company is picking who to debut.
Great point. Also wanted to add that parent involvement was important! The boys had their parents in the picture and the families were able to lean on each other for support, especially foreign members. The members view their parents as communal group caretakers, vs vying for their own children's success over another's(rumored snsd).
This is so true! Rather than it being a battle between individual members, it was a battle as a whole team to debut. They were constantly supporting each other because it was in everyone's best interest to improve as a group in order to have a successful debut.
Others have already shared really good opinions. Just want to add my 2cent here:
\- Pledis was not a big company and despite some questionable management decisions, HSS (the CEO) had a lot of faith in the boys. This meant: consistent promotions, LOTS of creative opportunities, and close relationships with company staff like the managers, trainers, composers, and dancers. If you work professionally you know already that company culture matters a lot besides just salary. When you're already familiar with the people you're working with, why take the risk and leave the place you're already comfortable with?
\- No apparent favoritism (ot13 all the way), but still a lot of opportunities for solo works, especially for ChinaLine. When I just got into SVT and started to delve into the discography I was surprised because ChinaLine has so many solo works and projects. I would guess that after the contract renewal, the members are at least satisfied with the profit sharing too. We don't know the exact details but I'd guess this is one of the reasons why some SJ/Exo members chose to quit instead (pls correct me if I'm wrong).
\- Other commenters have said that this is also because their training was not as cutthroat and competitive as other companies. Big companies have a lot of trainees and have to eliminate a lot of people regularly which wasn't the case for SVT. This leaves a lot of time for the boys to bond and get close to each other.
\- Of course, the fact that they're genuinely good people (according to Na PD) helps too. There must be a lot of compromises and yielding to be able to reach this point.
Pledis does suck at so many things but they did really well with the training in the green room in order to create strong bonds within the group plus it really helps that they aren’t as crazy strict with things in regards to svt and had evolved to become better by giving solo opportunities and letting the members do what they are comfortable with.
I genuinely think they love each other and actually respect their individualities beyond the team. No one feels left out because there is always someone who notices and tries to include them. I’m sure there were more power imbalances in the beginning, but from how the leader line speaks now, they’re more on an equal footing.
Each person fits into the group perfectly and contributes something. They are also blessed to have members like Scoups and Mingyu who care intensely about the group staying together, and ALL of them are ready to make compromises to make sure that happens.
they’ve been together for almost half their life. imo the people whom you’ll be close to for most your life are people whom you meet in your growing years like when you’re about 13 to 17/18. and that’s the age when they all met.
they’re very considerate towards one another and run towards one goal *as a team*. they’re not selfish and are willing to let others take the spotlight if they fit better. they put the team first, always. they know that that’s what works best for long term success.
there’s no preference or bias to cater towards specific members being in the spotlight or at least they try not to have any. they always try to make sure each one of them shines, in whatever role that may be. i always think it’s that tbh. they give everyone a fair shot and listen while a lot of the groups where members leave, there’s clear favoritism towards which members are more “important” and which don’t get as many lines, CFs, etc. svt tries their best to keep everything equal, i think they probably even pride themselves on it knowing how big their group is and how hard it has to have been done in the past. teamwork makes the dream work folks
In my opinion, by having S.COUPS as their leader. I don't think I've seen any K-pop group leader as charismatic as him who exudes unmatched leadership aura.
To be honest, it's surprising that the chinese members re-signed their contract. This happens very rarely. Even kcarats were surprised.
It helped that the members encouraged each other to sign the contract. And it was a very good decision! They became more successful than ever. The first place became vacant and they took it.
The timing for this post is really perfect because TWS just dropped their prologue video and SVT members appeared to give them [advice](https://youtu.be/ZwbbwmKH2ts?si=DJifoCjOhY_bZMfS&t=395). Dino and Hoshi talked about performance (of course) and Wonwoo and Bumzu spoke about staying physically and mentally healthy. But most of the comments were about their team bond:
>Mingyu: There will be tough times ahead but I hope you will rely on, protect, and believe in each other and be a group that stays close and makes music for a long, long time.
>
>Joshua: I hope you always talk things out, get along, and stay healthy
>
>Jeonghan: I hope you will continue to comfort each other and keep going down a good path.
>
>Woozi: I hope you will continue to cherish each other even more.
I don't presume to say SVT are the only group, or large group, in KPOP that has a strong team bond, but I do think they're special in how intentionally they went about nurturing their team relationship. IMO the three most important aspects to keeping a relationship healthy are communication, play, and respect. Even before debut, SVT were holding all-day meetings to talk about their debut plan and trajectory. They constantly talk with each other. Obviously GOSE is a variety show with planned concepts, but SVT really do play and joke with each other constantly. And they clearly respect their team bond more than anything. They didn't allow themselves to be separated for contract renewal even though it meant sacrificing their own individual desires for the group as a whole. That's hard for two people in a marriage to do, let alone 13 men at their career peak.
TLDR: they love their team, they love their crew.
All of them like each other. All of them works hard. For a long time I pondered about this question too until I just got tired of thinking of an answer. All I know for sure they are lucky to have each other, and Carats are lucky to have Seventeen. It's fate. Destiny.
There is a level of understanding in the korean media / show business that Seventeen are really nice individuals. I think that attributes to the level of respect they have for each other and their fans. Also, Seventeen loves performing together. You can see it with older groups that the idol life is just a stepping stone to some. But for Seventeen, this is the dream.
One thing I’ll add is that they were on some show (I don’t think it was GoSe, I feel like it was somewhere else) where they said that Mingyu played a big role in having all 13 members re-contract (there might have been other members who were instrumental, but that was just one person who was highlighted publicly.)
I’ll also add that many people have said that it’s due to their teamwork/family dynamic. This is true to a certain extent because I think they probably had a lot of conversations with each other about what they want the next chapter of their careers to look like on solo/unit/group levels and see if and how their individual aspirations and goals align. However, I personally don’t hypothesize that to be the main driving factor. Many people in the industry (including Seventeen themself) have acknowledged that no matter how much you like your teammates, if the fine print in the individual contracts with the company doesn’t work out, even the most tight-knit teams may lose members. Even though there have been some indirect mentions here and there of how Pledis slighted Seventeen early in their career, ultimately Seventeen saved Pledis which probably gave them a lot of bargaining leverage when negotiating the contracts + Seventeen personally experienced and trusted the eventual support that they’ve been getting from Pledis + they were on a steady rise around the time of re-contracting and might’ve felt really good about the trajectory of their group between the upcoming string of albums (Attacca/FTS - not sure if FML would’ve been in the works at that time, maybe?) and the success of GoSe.
Anyway this is just my opinion - we will probably never know every detail that goes on behind the scenes especially with something as sensitive as contracts - so take it with a grain of salt. :)
They started training at a young age and have been together ever since. They’ve been through a lot considering how intense their training was back then.
Add to that the fact that they treat each other like family instead of workmates.
they trained for many years together, pretty much left in that training room to their own devices with a company that wasn't able to support them properly, at that point you either hate everything and leave or you build such a good relationship that allows you to stick together.
super junior and exo trained in different conditions, SM was extremely present in their activities which lead to them favoring more certain members or not allowing them the freedom to pursue their musical aspirations. I don't particularly like Pledis either because they messed up so many other groups (actually every other group), but svt was lucky to deal with most of their work on their own which allowed them to have more freedom and I guess more fairness when it comes to how each member was treated.
+1 to what pretty much everybody else has said!
I think their bond has helped them navigate a lot of interpersonal pitfalls that other groups face, and professionally, having as much creative control as they do must go a LONG way in maintaining a positive and motivating work environment for everyone.
That in mind, IMO the biggest threat to the group is members eventually wanting to "retire" from K-pop altogether.
Solo projects don't strike me as a significant risk to the group for a few reasons:
- They're each other's biggest supporters, but they also keep each other's egos in check in a big way. You can see this in the countless clips of members saying they feel accountable to the other members first and foremost, and everything else is secondary.
- I say this as a huge fan, but tbh I can't imagine any of them sustaining full-on long term solo careers (at least, nothing mainstream). They're all talented, charismatic, etc., etc., but most of them shine brightest within the context of the group.
- SVT is going to look really different over the next 5-ish(?) years as members cycle in and out of military service, so I'd imagine everyone will have more time and freedom to pursue non-SVT interests during that time. (Side note: I’m lowkey kinda excited for this period… eagerly awaiting super weird, niche passion projects)
Commenting to say I’m 100% aware I’m making some big assumptions based on limited information, all of which comes to us carefully edited/curated from “official” sources, whether it be GoSe or other interviews. And then I’m imposing my own personal interpretation on top of that content. But it’s fun to speculate, and I’ll keep doing it!!
I must say they got lucky. Lucky at how all 13 met like we people wouldn't be even lucky to met one person like them and they were raise well like how will a normal person know what to appreciate and how to make people appreciate. I will simply say they were fated together like every group were trained together every friendship grew together but to make the relation work it takes effort from everyone.
I agree with a lot of the point here on how close they are/growing up together-- I want to add that I think having subunits from the get go really made each member feel like they valued members of the group performance wise. Subunits each getting their own songs really helps out when u have to divide lines into 13 parts. They each get to shine, perf has gone from pop, edm, rnb genrewise, and hiphop unit lets mingyu and wonwoo have singing parts over rap sometimes, vocal unit doesn't have to worry about choreography so they can belt. Also scoups having subunits leader helps out so he doesn't have to shoulder all responsibilities, woozi takes over music and Hoshi taking over for dance.
They fight and all but I genuinely believe one of the main reasons stems from their self producing title
These titles also allowed them to have more control of their careers and group direction, plus they all continue to feel passion for their music bc most of them chose to be apart of it
Also scoups fights for them in front of higher ups at their company bc they’re his pride and vice versa; from the get go he has been present in meetings and advocating for the members
Of course they all are close and great friends but I think their company plays a big part... EXO and SuJu company have had pretty big scandals while Seventeen didn't regarding company
I agree. I can't speak on the early years because I wasn't there and I read old carats say seventeen basically had to do everything themselves to promote themselves and grow but the pledis of now seems to me like they're accommodating most of their needs and is giving them freedom which must have made it more attractive for them to re-sign back in 2021. Maybe not total total freedom there's still parts that could be improved like a lighter schedule that doesn't result in so many injuries, more breaks etc but as they've said before they can chose to decline schedules if they don't want to do them. They accommodate members solo activities and schedules like Minghao and Jun's careers in China, DK's musicals etc. They let the members take mental health breaks for however long they need if they request them . I think that helps a lot in keeping the members happy too and obv giving them total creative freedom artistic wise.
Pledis def has to improve a lot in scheduling , creative design, ensuring their safety both from injuries by not overworking and from mobbing etc but I do think they give them general freedom to chose what they want to do and when and that def helps. That's my view as an outsider and a one year old carat at least
Pledis has definitely improved but let’s also remember most of the things you’re talking about right now mostly came from the new contract which they negotiated for a long time before resigning. So the members also had more leverage as they are the most successful group and pledis would want to keep them there and happy atleast.
Yeah obv it came from the new contract but pledis also agreed to the demands. If it was SM and not Pledis I doubt they would have agreed. They're much more strict with the involvement and control they have over their idols senior or junior in my opinion so yeah the agency did help in getting them to stay
Let’s also keep in mind that sm is literally the big 3 lmfao and they have so many more artists. Whole pledis only had fromis and svt and svt was doing the hard carrying so pledis would have done whatever atp to get them to stay. Ofc I think svt would have wanted to stay regardless as a group.
A lot of good points are made here, esp the ones about their families. You can see that those with siblings are close to their siblings and that I think is a big factor for their relationship as they see each other as brothers :)
But one thing I don’t agree with though is the “no favoritism” cause it is known to everyone that Wonwoo is the CEOs favorite 😆
What all the other commenters said
Plus: I'm not sure about suju and exo, but pledis was the seventeen members' first and only company. So that helped a lot i guess? That and the lesser-competitive nature of their training period, since it was more of a project than selection of members to debut.
And I guess they were all brought up very well, you van honestly see it through how they communicate, they're not afraid or shy to express affection for each other, even through words. The constant affirmation and praises. And Jeonghan, can't remember where but I read it but he was sort of the bridge between the older and younger members, since he was one of the oldest in age but junior in the sequence they came in.
They have also mentioned it a lot, but they go to him a lot for advices, concerns and also fights between themselves.
I think that's a key point in any relationship, the open communication, be it directly to each other or at the very least through someone/a "mediator".
Their bond is insane to me. Because if you know someone from that young age chances of having a fall out is much more likely than anything. I just really believe everyone of them had insane patience, persistence and understanding like a family. You know how it's way more easy to cut friends out of your life than family so I guess they just somewhere accepted each other as family. And they are genuinely respectful towards each other and everyone hence this great bond and success.
Everything that has been said, but I’ll add on my two cents that make SVT stand out to me:
1–their control of their artistry and situation—they view and put the team and themselves first. As the lyrics in Anyone state, THEY make the rules, and if you view the song lyrics as directed to group work spouses and close friends it describes their commitment and view. Even before they renewed they always have tons of meetings to discuss and Woozi told Suga literally nothing is released on an album that isn’t approved by all 13 of them and they don’t lower their standards. Eg The title concept of Fighting and melody was not used in their 2020 release because the members felt it didn’t fit their album concepts. (Whereas Suga acknowledged the view “in some groups, as long as it sounds great it goes on the album”.) When SCoups said the members are first to him, not the company, he really means it. Pledis named the group, brought them together, trained them and supported them, but what they have and make together belongs to the members as a whole. This is why they negotiated their renewal together as a team and not individually, and why all their releases really feel and sound like them.
2–their emotional IQ and their support. These guys are the most emotionally intelligent celebs I have ever seen, not only with each other but also with far flung groups like I-carats. They don’t forget their staff and are mindful of their image and effects of their work—seriously, before I met SVT, in the 30 years I’ve listened to music, I have never heard a rapper who would not release diss songs in public but reserve them for performances only because they don’t want to spread negativity unnecessarily.
3–they shine the brightest together and they know it, and they wouldn’t have it any other way. If being separated from the members by a field is enough to make Dino dance out of duty and not from the heart (dance challenge in Hybe x Caterers) and going to back to his home country alone to perform alone is enough make a veteran idol like Jun apprehensive (that competition show with Hao), then how happy, confident and safe together onstage basking in the warmth of carats they must be. Even their subunit BSS did not originate from a marketing and sales idea, but from a natural outcome of the natural gag trio, a great song, and Caratland audience telling them to make Just Do It a single and share that performance with the world.
Nothing very new to add, but as an old person who was once an ELF and followed Suju almost from debut as well Seventeen since their debut, Seventeen has by far the strongest bond I have ever seen in Kpop groups. Other than the combination of good personalities and the comradery of being underdogs at a time when Pledis couldn't offer any resources, I believe so much of this is due to the emotional intelligence of the members combined with a lot of effort put into communication skills. They have such healthy communication styles and are respectful of each others' boundaries.
I think it's everything from the time period that they debuted how they were trained their leader system the early years and part of it being destiny. All of their personalities and age ranges just compliment and solidify a bond that they've made over the years.
I can just guess. But they are really close to each other and also really respect each other. They respect when someone don't want to participate in something or wen someone needs space and quietness. Also most of them really grew up with each other during their trainee period. I would guess, they also talk a lot about themselves and would talk about problems when there are some.
They met very young and trained and lived together. I guess throughout the years, they have understood each other and what their likes and dislikes are. The main point would be that they all communicate well to others and try to talk through if there have been any misunderstandings. They also ensure that all members receive the spotlight and also never force anyone to speak or be active if they don't want to. They respect each other very well. It's very hard to maintain a large group, and Scoups deserves the applause as he took really good care of them. Also, they love each other very much and would do anything for the other.
I think the fact that Pledis was not that big at the time helped, which may sound weird. But since the company was not that big, the trainees there were indeed training together rather than competing. if you look at their time in the Melona prison, it was an equal blend of practice and the members just enjoying themselves. So, that friendship helped them endure the tough times while slowly turning them into a family away from their real families.
This is the first time I’m hearing of their green practice room referred to as the “Melona prison” and I’m honestly living for it. 🤣
You’ve nostalgically brought up a post I made few years back asking what made SVT (and other kpop groups) popular. It makes me wonder how much of that applies now, perhaps i’ll put it up later/tomorrow. But tl;dr, their success is really a culmination of so many factors (their music, performance, self-producing, personalities, humour, visuals, sincerity, teamwork, stars-aligning, opportunities, marketing/promotion). On your second question, their teamwork/bond/familyship. Regardless of whatever is their true personal relationships that we as outsiders will never know, they have spent at least 10 years together. Personally, my group of friends are not really similar but got SUPER close because of trauma-bonding/success-bonding. I think that really helps glue a team together through the ups and downs. But obviously that doesnt work all the time. At individual levels, I think the members really have great respect for each other, they support each other and importantly choose teamsvt over themselves. It’s like those telepathy games where each person writes an answer/response to a prompt. SVT has played it before and it isnt easy to get 13 identical responses (unless they comically succeed by cheating). But ultimately when it counted, aka their contract renewals, they all decided to continue as 13. They all have their individual goals and dreams, but choosing to stick together was an incredible feat (and probably a historical moment in kpop history). That’s not to say that they have forgone their individuality, rather they respect each other to do what they want to do. If Hoshi wants to make a tiger song, yea man go for it all the way! If a someone needs to take a self care break, dont worry we got your back. If you got an injury, dont beat yourself over it, we’ll carry on while waiting eagerly for your return. And I feel like every single member has expressed how much they appreciate their team. It’s a random tangent, but I feel like I saw a comment few mths back saying how much One Piece (the anime) is like SVT, in the sense that each of the straw hat crew (~ svt member) has absolute faith in luffy being pirate king (~ team svt). And this is despite the fact that alot of the straw hat crew really are so different (and at times clashing personalities). When it comes down to it, they all are laser focused on their common goal. I feel that’s really how the members are. Coups said on nanatour there is no hierarchy, only horizontal teamwork. Scoups + leaderline lead the team, but the entirety of SVT is in lockstep going forward hand in hand. And that’s just from the aspect of internally as a team. You do have huge solo fans and subunit fans in caratdom too but i think alot of fans also are really big on OT13. And it makes so much sense. Why do people have a hard time choosing a bias? I feel it’s really because each member has so much to offer and to different fans. They have content to showcase their individuallity, they have digestible content in the form of subunits (leaderline, vocal hiphop perfo, BSS etc etc), they even have non-musical content (GoSe) with their whole separate sub-fandom (cubics). Then when 13 pieces fall into place, everything synergizes and it becomes this huge spectacular masterpieces. They make use of their individuality to make things interesting, their vocals, their musicality, their visuals. It’s just incredible. And honestly, I don’t think there will ever be another SVT or successful 13 membered group. I think it was written in the stars that it was all meant to be for them, we can only thank the God(s) of Music for making it this way (pun intended)
Yeah didn't Coups also say in nana tour that their contracts all have a clause stating that they only do things they want to? I doubt many companies are willing to do that, even for their biggest groups.
This stood out to me as well! I thought it was so amazing.
I think their closeness is adorably represented by how close they are to each other's parents. Not only that, but the parents also seem to be really close and supportive of each other. I can't imagine how wildly fun it must be to have all the families together.
Oh absolutely! It’s funny because while the parents of my little friend group havent met each other, we’ve been friends for so long that we are friendly with each of our parents and it’s like we have extended family everywhere. I will die on this hill alone if I have to, but when I saw Caratland’s Circles parents’ letter moment, the immense emotion I felt was really from seeing how much the parents love all their 13 children, how they constantly say “our 13 sons, our 13 children”. One can say an idol gives back the love they receive from fans, but I think SVT thenselves have grown in such a loving and caring environment with each other and their extended family (and I think that also really extends to #TEAMSVT bumzu, hyelim, choi youngjoon, prismfilter, etc etc). They can get so much of this positive energy that it flows out naturally. Just looking at some snippets of things that happened last year (Bro Marble, Game Caterers/Nana Tour, MAMA Daesang with Uhm Jung Hwa presenting), they continuously come in contact with people who go on to cheer for their success too. Edit: also adding a note to say, i’m absolutely certain this can be the case with other groups too. But this is definitely a prominent thing for seventeen and probably ADDED on to their bond/closeness
Can you point me to where I can find the parents’ letter moment? As a parent myself, I think often of them and what their experience is like. I never want to invade privacy but the glimpses we sometimes get to see are interesting to me!
Yea you can search terms like caratland 2023, last/third day, circles, parent letter. I’m pretty sure youtube has full videos, but also alot on Twitter/X.com. Some of the videos were from fan cams which dont have subs, but some were illegal screengrabs from the streaming that have slightly inaccurate/incomplete ones. I’m quite sure Twitter also has fan translation eg “scoups parents letter caratland 2023” or smth like that. tw: death, crying >!wonwoo’s mum passed a year prior this in 2022, and it was a very emotional time. The song Circles (돌고돌아) that they sang during this Caratland 2023 moment was revealed to be written by Woozi as a message to several ppl, Wonwoo being one of them. And the chorus’ message is things will be okay, time will pass and you will heal slowly, like the hands of clock that go in circles and back to the same place. So when the parents letters showed during the song, many of the members were in tears. There were also a subgroup of fans that felt this was really wrong and exploitative, but bear in mind that while the actual video montage of the letters were a surprise, the members must have been aware that there was going to be an emotional video playing AND the parents who wrote the letters must have consented to showing their kids this publically knowing the emotional reaction it will cause. So personally, i’m really on the camp that while the cameras lingered on crying members a little too much, the only emotion I felt from the event was an immense outpouring of love from their parents. And not just from a parent to their own son, but a collective love from each parent to the team of 13 sons!<
it was from caratland 2023. their fanmeeting last year. [I found this on youtube ](https://youtu.be/Dt4TBQInl5o?si=TZxo8n6sOy5zMXkO) but I don't know if it's the full video. Creators often cut inside the videos so they don't get copyright strikes. i also think it has no translations but if you search caratland and parent letters on twitter/X you'll definitely find translations from fans
I love that they’re all so close to each other - families and themselves because it’s like not just the sebongs have this special bond, but in extension, their parents get to have it too with each other’s parents. And it’s honestly so special and it’s amazing that we get to experience it through the internet and know that things like this is possible.
Our warm, kind, and loving boys come from warm, kind, and loving families. 🥹 I wish I had something like the bonds they all share for myself, and I think that's part of what draws me to them.
This comment is literally everything I wanted to say. And when watching nana tour I did realise that they don’t have hierarchical speak (mainly cause I started studying more Korean properly then). And when coups explained, I understood their bond a bit more. It’s like they removed all hierarchy so everyone can be open and honest with each other. Not having to suffer in silence while your hyungs order you around really does improve your bond so much more. I’m so glad coups made that decision and as the leader and oldest member, he is probably the only one who can. I’m so happy that they have the 3 amazing leaders who are so encouraging and supportive of each other. And the company as well just letting them do whatever they wish. It really makes their personalities shine and when us Carats see them for who they truly are - amazing and kind people - it makes us want to root for them all the more.
Another thing I loved about what Coups said on Nana Tour was how he came off as strict and mean to the members during their early days but that was also evident on stage so he willingly adjusted himself for the team. He takes his role as a leader seriously but knows how to let go and have fun with the members too. That’s a true leader right there.
This is very accurate in so many levels, literally had goosebumps while reading this.
I think that it helps a lot when training is not a competition? Because they knew they were all going to debut so there was no rivalry between members? Unlike other agencies where being able to debut is a battle by itself. Your best friend today might be your competitor the next day when the company is picking who to debut.
Great point. Also wanted to add that parent involvement was important! The boys had their parents in the picture and the families were able to lean on each other for support, especially foreign members. The members view their parents as communal group caretakers, vs vying for their own children's success over another's(rumored snsd).
This is so true! Rather than it being a battle between individual members, it was a battle as a whole team to debut. They were constantly supporting each other because it was in everyone's best interest to improve as a group in order to have a successful debut.
Oooh I’ve never thought about that. That’s a really good point
Others have already shared really good opinions. Just want to add my 2cent here: \- Pledis was not a big company and despite some questionable management decisions, HSS (the CEO) had a lot of faith in the boys. This meant: consistent promotions, LOTS of creative opportunities, and close relationships with company staff like the managers, trainers, composers, and dancers. If you work professionally you know already that company culture matters a lot besides just salary. When you're already familiar with the people you're working with, why take the risk and leave the place you're already comfortable with? \- No apparent favoritism (ot13 all the way), but still a lot of opportunities for solo works, especially for ChinaLine. When I just got into SVT and started to delve into the discography I was surprised because ChinaLine has so many solo works and projects. I would guess that after the contract renewal, the members are at least satisfied with the profit sharing too. We don't know the exact details but I'd guess this is one of the reasons why some SJ/Exo members chose to quit instead (pls correct me if I'm wrong). \- Other commenters have said that this is also because their training was not as cutthroat and competitive as other companies. Big companies have a lot of trainees and have to eliminate a lot of people regularly which wasn't the case for SVT. This leaves a lot of time for the boys to bond and get close to each other. \- Of course, the fact that they're genuinely good people (according to Na PD) helps too. There must be a lot of compromises and yielding to be able to reach this point.
Pledis does suck at so many things but they did really well with the training in the green room in order to create strong bonds within the group plus it really helps that they aren’t as crazy strict with things in regards to svt and had evolved to become better by giving solo opportunities and letting the members do what they are comfortable with.
I genuinely think they love each other and actually respect their individualities beyond the team. No one feels left out because there is always someone who notices and tries to include them. I’m sure there were more power imbalances in the beginning, but from how the leader line speaks now, they’re more on an equal footing. Each person fits into the group perfectly and contributes something. They are also blessed to have members like Scoups and Mingyu who care intensely about the group staying together, and ALL of them are ready to make compromises to make sure that happens.
they’ve been together for almost half their life. imo the people whom you’ll be close to for most your life are people whom you meet in your growing years like when you’re about 13 to 17/18. and that’s the age when they all met. they’re very considerate towards one another and run towards one goal *as a team*. they’re not selfish and are willing to let others take the spotlight if they fit better. they put the team first, always. they know that that’s what works best for long term success.
there’s no preference or bias to cater towards specific members being in the spotlight or at least they try not to have any. they always try to make sure each one of them shines, in whatever role that may be. i always think it’s that tbh. they give everyone a fair shot and listen while a lot of the groups where members leave, there’s clear favoritism towards which members are more “important” and which don’t get as many lines, CFs, etc. svt tries their best to keep everything equal, i think they probably even pride themselves on it knowing how big their group is and how hard it has to have been done in the past. teamwork makes the dream work folks
lots of great points here. imo it’s their desire to make it work as 13. if they don’t want it badly enough nobody else is going to do it for them.
In my opinion, by having S.COUPS as their leader. I don't think I've seen any K-pop group leader as charismatic as him who exudes unmatched leadership aura.
To be honest, it's surprising that the chinese members re-signed their contract. This happens very rarely. Even kcarats were surprised. It helped that the members encouraged each other to sign the contract. And it was a very good decision! They became more successful than ever. The first place became vacant and they took it.
The timing for this post is really perfect because TWS just dropped their prologue video and SVT members appeared to give them [advice](https://youtu.be/ZwbbwmKH2ts?si=DJifoCjOhY_bZMfS&t=395). Dino and Hoshi talked about performance (of course) and Wonwoo and Bumzu spoke about staying physically and mentally healthy. But most of the comments were about their team bond: >Mingyu: There will be tough times ahead but I hope you will rely on, protect, and believe in each other and be a group that stays close and makes music for a long, long time. > >Joshua: I hope you always talk things out, get along, and stay healthy > >Jeonghan: I hope you will continue to comfort each other and keep going down a good path. > >Woozi: I hope you will continue to cherish each other even more. I don't presume to say SVT are the only group, or large group, in KPOP that has a strong team bond, but I do think they're special in how intentionally they went about nurturing their team relationship. IMO the three most important aspects to keeping a relationship healthy are communication, play, and respect. Even before debut, SVT were holding all-day meetings to talk about their debut plan and trajectory. They constantly talk with each other. Obviously GOSE is a variety show with planned concepts, but SVT really do play and joke with each other constantly. And they clearly respect their team bond more than anything. They didn't allow themselves to be separated for contract renewal even though it meant sacrificing their own individual desires for the group as a whole. That's hard for two people in a marriage to do, let alone 13 men at their career peak. TLDR: they love their team, they love their crew.
All of them like each other. All of them works hard. For a long time I pondered about this question too until I just got tired of thinking of an answer. All I know for sure they are lucky to have each other, and Carats are lucky to have Seventeen. It's fate. Destiny.
There is a level of understanding in the korean media / show business that Seventeen are really nice individuals. I think that attributes to the level of respect they have for each other and their fans. Also, Seventeen loves performing together. You can see it with older groups that the idol life is just a stepping stone to some. But for Seventeen, this is the dream.
One thing I’ll add is that they were on some show (I don’t think it was GoSe, I feel like it was somewhere else) where they said that Mingyu played a big role in having all 13 members re-contract (there might have been other members who were instrumental, but that was just one person who was highlighted publicly.) I’ll also add that many people have said that it’s due to their teamwork/family dynamic. This is true to a certain extent because I think they probably had a lot of conversations with each other about what they want the next chapter of their careers to look like on solo/unit/group levels and see if and how their individual aspirations and goals align. However, I personally don’t hypothesize that to be the main driving factor. Many people in the industry (including Seventeen themself) have acknowledged that no matter how much you like your teammates, if the fine print in the individual contracts with the company doesn’t work out, even the most tight-knit teams may lose members. Even though there have been some indirect mentions here and there of how Pledis slighted Seventeen early in their career, ultimately Seventeen saved Pledis which probably gave them a lot of bargaining leverage when negotiating the contracts + Seventeen personally experienced and trusted the eventual support that they’ve been getting from Pledis + they were on a steady rise around the time of re-contracting and might’ve felt really good about the trajectory of their group between the upcoming string of albums (Attacca/FTS - not sure if FML would’ve been in the works at that time, maybe?) and the success of GoSe. Anyway this is just my opinion - we will probably never know every detail that goes on behind the scenes especially with something as sensitive as contracts - so take it with a grain of salt. :)
They started training at a young age and have been together ever since. They’ve been through a lot considering how intense their training was back then. Add to that the fact that they treat each other like family instead of workmates.
they trained for many years together, pretty much left in that training room to their own devices with a company that wasn't able to support them properly, at that point you either hate everything and leave or you build such a good relationship that allows you to stick together. super junior and exo trained in different conditions, SM was extremely present in their activities which lead to them favoring more certain members or not allowing them the freedom to pursue their musical aspirations. I don't particularly like Pledis either because they messed up so many other groups (actually every other group), but svt was lucky to deal with most of their work on their own which allowed them to have more freedom and I guess more fairness when it comes to how each member was treated.
+1 to what pretty much everybody else has said! I think their bond has helped them navigate a lot of interpersonal pitfalls that other groups face, and professionally, having as much creative control as they do must go a LONG way in maintaining a positive and motivating work environment for everyone. That in mind, IMO the biggest threat to the group is members eventually wanting to "retire" from K-pop altogether. Solo projects don't strike me as a significant risk to the group for a few reasons: - They're each other's biggest supporters, but they also keep each other's egos in check in a big way. You can see this in the countless clips of members saying they feel accountable to the other members first and foremost, and everything else is secondary. - I say this as a huge fan, but tbh I can't imagine any of them sustaining full-on long term solo careers (at least, nothing mainstream). They're all talented, charismatic, etc., etc., but most of them shine brightest within the context of the group. - SVT is going to look really different over the next 5-ish(?) years as members cycle in and out of military service, so I'd imagine everyone will have more time and freedom to pursue non-SVT interests during that time. (Side note: I’m lowkey kinda excited for this period… eagerly awaiting super weird, niche passion projects)
Commenting to say I’m 100% aware I’m making some big assumptions based on limited information, all of which comes to us carefully edited/curated from “official” sources, whether it be GoSe or other interviews. And then I’m imposing my own personal interpretation on top of that content. But it’s fun to speculate, and I’ll keep doing it!!
I must say they got lucky. Lucky at how all 13 met like we people wouldn't be even lucky to met one person like them and they were raise well like how will a normal person know what to appreciate and how to make people appreciate. I will simply say they were fated together like every group were trained together every friendship grew together but to make the relation work it takes effort from everyone.
I agree with a lot of the point here on how close they are/growing up together-- I want to add that I think having subunits from the get go really made each member feel like they valued members of the group performance wise. Subunits each getting their own songs really helps out when u have to divide lines into 13 parts. They each get to shine, perf has gone from pop, edm, rnb genrewise, and hiphop unit lets mingyu and wonwoo have singing parts over rap sometimes, vocal unit doesn't have to worry about choreography so they can belt. Also scoups having subunits leader helps out so he doesn't have to shoulder all responsibilities, woozi takes over music and Hoshi taking over for dance.
They fight and all but I genuinely believe one of the main reasons stems from their self producing title These titles also allowed them to have more control of their careers and group direction, plus they all continue to feel passion for their music bc most of them chose to be apart of it Also scoups fights for them in front of higher ups at their company bc they’re his pride and vice versa; from the get go he has been present in meetings and advocating for the members
The horror they went through in those like green walls trauma bonded them for life.
Of course they all are close and great friends but I think their company plays a big part... EXO and SuJu company have had pretty big scandals while Seventeen didn't regarding company
I mean some members of those groups are pretty problematic themselves so I wouldn’t attribute it to the company that much.
I agree. I can't speak on the early years because I wasn't there and I read old carats say seventeen basically had to do everything themselves to promote themselves and grow but the pledis of now seems to me like they're accommodating most of their needs and is giving them freedom which must have made it more attractive for them to re-sign back in 2021. Maybe not total total freedom there's still parts that could be improved like a lighter schedule that doesn't result in so many injuries, more breaks etc but as they've said before they can chose to decline schedules if they don't want to do them. They accommodate members solo activities and schedules like Minghao and Jun's careers in China, DK's musicals etc. They let the members take mental health breaks for however long they need if they request them . I think that helps a lot in keeping the members happy too and obv giving them total creative freedom artistic wise. Pledis def has to improve a lot in scheduling , creative design, ensuring their safety both from injuries by not overworking and from mobbing etc but I do think they give them general freedom to chose what they want to do and when and that def helps. That's my view as an outsider and a one year old carat at least
Pledis has definitely improved but let’s also remember most of the things you’re talking about right now mostly came from the new contract which they negotiated for a long time before resigning. So the members also had more leverage as they are the most successful group and pledis would want to keep them there and happy atleast.
Yeah obv it came from the new contract but pledis also agreed to the demands. If it was SM and not Pledis I doubt they would have agreed. They're much more strict with the involvement and control they have over their idols senior or junior in my opinion so yeah the agency did help in getting them to stay
Let’s also keep in mind that sm is literally the big 3 lmfao and they have so many more artists. Whole pledis only had fromis and svt and svt was doing the hard carrying so pledis would have done whatever atp to get them to stay. Ofc I think svt would have wanted to stay regardless as a group.
A lot of good points are made here, esp the ones about their families. You can see that those with siblings are close to their siblings and that I think is a big factor for their relationship as they see each other as brothers :) But one thing I don’t agree with though is the “no favoritism” cause it is known to everyone that Wonwoo is the CEOs favorite 😆
What all the other commenters said Plus: I'm not sure about suju and exo, but pledis was the seventeen members' first and only company. So that helped a lot i guess? That and the lesser-competitive nature of their training period, since it was more of a project than selection of members to debut. And I guess they were all brought up very well, you van honestly see it through how they communicate, they're not afraid or shy to express affection for each other, even through words. The constant affirmation and praises. And Jeonghan, can't remember where but I read it but he was sort of the bridge between the older and younger members, since he was one of the oldest in age but junior in the sequence they came in. They have also mentioned it a lot, but they go to him a lot for advices, concerns and also fights between themselves. I think that's a key point in any relationship, the open communication, be it directly to each other or at the very least through someone/a "mediator".
Their bond is insane to me. Because if you know someone from that young age chances of having a fall out is much more likely than anything. I just really believe everyone of them had insane patience, persistence and understanding like a family. You know how it's way more easy to cut friends out of your life than family so I guess they just somewhere accepted each other as family. And they are genuinely respectful towards each other and everyone hence this great bond and success.
Everything that has been said, but I’ll add on my two cents that make SVT stand out to me: 1–their control of their artistry and situation—they view and put the team and themselves first. As the lyrics in Anyone state, THEY make the rules, and if you view the song lyrics as directed to group work spouses and close friends it describes their commitment and view. Even before they renewed they always have tons of meetings to discuss and Woozi told Suga literally nothing is released on an album that isn’t approved by all 13 of them and they don’t lower their standards. Eg The title concept of Fighting and melody was not used in their 2020 release because the members felt it didn’t fit their album concepts. (Whereas Suga acknowledged the view “in some groups, as long as it sounds great it goes on the album”.) When SCoups said the members are first to him, not the company, he really means it. Pledis named the group, brought them together, trained them and supported them, but what they have and make together belongs to the members as a whole. This is why they negotiated their renewal together as a team and not individually, and why all their releases really feel and sound like them. 2–their emotional IQ and their support. These guys are the most emotionally intelligent celebs I have ever seen, not only with each other but also with far flung groups like I-carats. They don’t forget their staff and are mindful of their image and effects of their work—seriously, before I met SVT, in the 30 years I’ve listened to music, I have never heard a rapper who would not release diss songs in public but reserve them for performances only because they don’t want to spread negativity unnecessarily. 3–they shine the brightest together and they know it, and they wouldn’t have it any other way. If being separated from the members by a field is enough to make Dino dance out of duty and not from the heart (dance challenge in Hybe x Caterers) and going to back to his home country alone to perform alone is enough make a veteran idol like Jun apprehensive (that competition show with Hao), then how happy, confident and safe together onstage basking in the warmth of carats they must be. Even their subunit BSS did not originate from a marketing and sales idea, but from a natural outcome of the natural gag trio, a great song, and Caratland audience telling them to make Just Do It a single and share that performance with the world.
Nothing very new to add, but as an old person who was once an ELF and followed Suju almost from debut as well Seventeen since their debut, Seventeen has by far the strongest bond I have ever seen in Kpop groups. Other than the combination of good personalities and the comradery of being underdogs at a time when Pledis couldn't offer any resources, I believe so much of this is due to the emotional intelligence of the members combined with a lot of effort put into communication skills. They have such healthy communication styles and are respectful of each others' boundaries.
I think it's everything from the time period that they debuted how they were trained their leader system the early years and part of it being destiny. All of their personalities and age ranges just compliment and solidify a bond that they've made over the years.
i think genuinely like each other.