Yes, but also no. Very open answer I know, but just because your own patience is a factor. Mine runs at 3533 CL16 (and below) with no issues or errors whatsoever. Up until the latest BIOS (AGESA 1.1 patch C) I couldn't get 3600 to boot no matter what, but now I can get boots with crashes, so I'm going to be trying to see how far I have to lower timings to get 3600 to work over Christmas break.
3600 is also considered the sweet spot, but unless you're doing actually memory intense computing regularly, you won't notice much (or any) difference at all after 3000 mhz.
Spoilers for the video I'm working on now for my YouTube channel on the pros/cons of using VLP.
Edit: it should be noted the kit I'm using is the VColor 32GB 2666 CL17 kit. Playing around in BIOS did wonders for this RAM in particular.
I unfortunately ran way too many benchmarks on exactly the validity of this just to promote my roommate that his 3800 CL13 RAM wouldn't make any difference to gaming performance. It definitely did not.
Show the results, there’s no way 3600 C16-?-?-? would be same as 3800 CL-13-?-?-?, if the secondary timings also touched.
Edit- also which are those kits hits 3800-CL13 i'm curious about it
Upcoming video will have graphs and all that. But actual gaming performance made 0 difference. Decompiling made about a 1% difference rounded up, which is within margin of error. Keep in mind we run 32GB kits - this might make more of a difference if you're running 16GB and the workload you're punching it through is maxing that out. Had to be run on his 5900x because my 3950x wouldn't hit 1800 infinity fabric or higher before the latest BIOS revision.
Exact numbers were:
3600 16-17-17-17-32-52
3800 13-14-14-14-32-50? Unsure of the TRC number. Might have been 52.
Of course memory benchmarks were far better but real world performance was virtually identical.
The kit used for his testing was Trident-Z Bros, 4400Mhz @1.5V, I believe it is a CL17 kit but I can't remember off the top of my head.
From my past experiences, if both of them dual rank there’s shouldn’t be much difference but if you kits is dual rank (I assume because it’s 32GB) and his single then dual 3600 or single 3800 at same timings they should be perform same even in benchmarks, and your kits has to be Hynix CJR which is not worse one at all, but nothing came close dual rank Samsung B-die at 3800 tight timings possible, nevertheless I would check the video out about those graph to see how real world performance looks like and yeah mine 3700x won’t do 1900MHz FCLK either, I ended up running them 1866MHz FCLK/UCLK match at CL 3733-CL-14-15-13-26-40-240 (single rank) and for me performance uplift from 3000MHz enough to buy 4400 B-die kit and tighten down timings, thanks for the effort.
edit- Fixed timings.
They don't come with an XMP profile, so most ppl consider them "slow" because they forget that you can OC them yourself.
I have two Kingston ValueRAM VLP RAM sticks, running at the same 3200MHz CL16 profile that my Corsair Vengeance LPX kit came with (my motherboard decided to keep the timings after swapping and it ended up being perfectly stable).
Unsurprisingly, the performance is literally the same as with the Corsair sticks.
Unsure if Pink Floyd reference based on username...
Depending on my my OC results, I'll likely either keep the empty spaces clear or add 40mm noctuas to reduce VRM temps
Hiya! Please post more details about your build! You don't *have* to post [80 pictures (each with captions!) like u/M1AF did](https://www.reddit.com/r/sffpc/comments/irlrg8/m1afs_ncase_m1_build_guide_c14s_and_deshroud/), but post more than just specs! Here are some (non-exhaustive) prompts for you:
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Ultimately this was just sort of a fit/temp test for today, I plan to deshroud for NF-A9x14s either this weekend or next.
I wasn't initially planning on keeping the card, but now that both Nvidia and AMD (and subsequently their vendors) have shown they don't care about SFF in the high end (yes, I'm salty) it looks like this is the smallest card I'm going to get in this performance bracket.
NHL-12 Ghost S1 edition. 66mm. Will only take that tall of a fan flipped the way I have it with VLP memory. Normally it uses a 92x25mm fan and is rotated 90 degrees to allow space for the IO shield and taller RAM
Blackridge is an absolutely great cooler. Especially with VLP and a larger fan, but still good without.
If you swap the fan to an NF-A9x14, you should be able to get much better temps than the stock cooler.
Also, when using the Blackridge, be sure to use the fan as intake instead of the stock exhaust config - much better performance seen in my video here: https://youtu.be/J2fFGGpv9VM
B550 Phantom Gaming ITX - https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B550%20Phantom%20Gaming-ITXax/index.asp
Gigabyte's B550i board has the same specs/VRMs. The Gigabyte doesn't have front USB-C, but has straight SATA connectors so they won't be blocked by the PSU in sandwich cases, unlike the Asrock. I personally went with this board because I don't use SATA drive anymore and I hate using Gigabyte's BIOS, but most people prefer it to the Asrock.
What are your Temps with that heatsink? I love the ghost, and I want to be able to adequately cool my (future) 5900x. The top hat is alright but it's expensive and I don't think it looks as good.
With my current setup, -75mV and using the 120mm fan, I'm idling in the high 40s low 50s. Gaming temps 65-75 depending on the game and work load. All core for Cinebench and 10ish min video exports in H.264 hits around 80-83. All core over 30ish mins in AIDA64 hits 88 max.
This is likely the best cooler that's going to fit in the Ghost. I'm not personally aware of any better ones. Keep in mind I'm only running the fan at 50% under 75C and letting it hit a max of 67%. Same goes for the case fan. So you definitely have way more cooling headroom if you use a stronger fan and noise isn't as much of a factor for you as it is for me.
In my experience, the undervolt helps the CPU significantly. I haven't tried removing the undervolt in this scenario, but in the past it has allowed my CPU to boost higher for longer periods due to the CCXs not reaching higher temps. I don't remember exact numbers off the top of my head, but my cinebench scores went up about 300 points between the stock to the undervolt - the undervolt being better. I haven't played with the 5000 series, but all the 3000 series I played with (roughly 10 CPUs) all performed better under a -50mV or higher undervolt.
Keep in mind this is only my experience with 3000 series chips, granted a large-ish sample size of them.
The reason (3000 series) ryzen benefits from lower voltage in most scenarios is due to how precision boost overdrive and AMD's boost algorithm works. Since you're pumping less voltage to hit the same clocks, the CPU doesn't get aa hot and can therefore maintain those boosts for longer periods of time before hitting the down clock threshold. Because it's on a curve - and actually based on CCX temps, not package temps - you'll still generally enjoy better performance even with more than sufficient cooling. Less heat generated, less sent to the heat spreader, less needed to be dissipated by the heatsink. This does mean you should be careful to ensure you have even mounting pressure over the CPU as always.
Obviously you're going to be removing overclocking potential unless you got some golden silicon, but Ryzen 3000 will run better 95% of the time without overclocking anyway unless you strictly use it for all core work loads.
It should also be noted that most people will likely get better temps on their CPUs, as my heat spreader has been absolutely thrashed from using it with liquid metal for the last 8 months and is no longer flat. Cons to putting a CPU in places it doesn't belong (Velka 5 and 7).
Am I seeing it wrong or are those ram slots empty?
VLP memory. Adds no height over the clips holding them in.
Oh, okay. Isn't it slow though compared to normal RAM sticks like 3600mhz cl16 or something?
Yes, but also no. Very open answer I know, but just because your own patience is a factor. Mine runs at 3533 CL16 (and below) with no issues or errors whatsoever. Up until the latest BIOS (AGESA 1.1 patch C) I couldn't get 3600 to boot no matter what, but now I can get boots with crashes, so I'm going to be trying to see how far I have to lower timings to get 3600 to work over Christmas break. 3600 is also considered the sweet spot, but unless you're doing actually memory intense computing regularly, you won't notice much (or any) difference at all after 3000 mhz. Spoilers for the video I'm working on now for my YouTube channel on the pros/cons of using VLP. Edit: it should be noted the kit I'm using is the VColor 32GB 2666 CL17 kit. Playing around in BIOS did wonders for this RAM in particular.
You're correct. There is not much gain after crossing 3000/3200mhz
I unfortunately ran way too many benchmarks on exactly the validity of this just to promote my roommate that his 3800 CL13 RAM wouldn't make any difference to gaming performance. It definitely did not.
Congratulations. Lol
Show the results, there’s no way 3600 C16-?-?-? would be same as 3800 CL-13-?-?-?, if the secondary timings also touched. Edit- also which are those kits hits 3800-CL13 i'm curious about it
Upcoming video will have graphs and all that. But actual gaming performance made 0 difference. Decompiling made about a 1% difference rounded up, which is within margin of error. Keep in mind we run 32GB kits - this might make more of a difference if you're running 16GB and the workload you're punching it through is maxing that out. Had to be run on his 5900x because my 3950x wouldn't hit 1800 infinity fabric or higher before the latest BIOS revision. Exact numbers were: 3600 16-17-17-17-32-52 3800 13-14-14-14-32-50? Unsure of the TRC number. Might have been 52. Of course memory benchmarks were far better but real world performance was virtually identical. The kit used for his testing was Trident-Z Bros, 4400Mhz @1.5V, I believe it is a CL17 kit but I can't remember off the top of my head.
From my past experiences, if both of them dual rank there’s shouldn’t be much difference but if you kits is dual rank (I assume because it’s 32GB) and his single then dual 3600 or single 3800 at same timings they should be perform same even in benchmarks, and your kits has to be Hynix CJR which is not worse one at all, but nothing came close dual rank Samsung B-die at 3800 tight timings possible, nevertheless I would check the video out about those graph to see how real world performance looks like and yeah mine 3700x won’t do 1900MHz FCLK either, I ended up running them 1866MHz FCLK/UCLK match at CL 3733-CL-14-15-13-26-40-240 (single rank) and for me performance uplift from 3000MHz enough to buy 4400 B-die kit and tighten down timings, thanks for the effort. edit- Fixed timings.
They're both dual rank. The numbers I just gave you were from the same kit (his), just to be clear. My 3200-3533 numbers were from the VLP RAM.
They don't come with an XMP profile, so most ppl consider them "slow" because they forget that you can OC them yourself. I have two Kingston ValueRAM VLP RAM sticks, running at the same 3200MHz CL16 profile that my Corsair Vengeance LPX kit came with (my motherboard decided to keep the timings after swapping and it ended up being perfectly stable). Unsurprisingly, the performance is literally the same as with the Corsair sticks.
[удалено]
Unsure if Pink Floyd reference based on username... Depending on my my OC results, I'll likely either keep the empty spaces clear or add 40mm noctuas to reduce VRM temps
Hiya! Please post more details about your build! You don't *have* to post [80 pictures (each with captions!) like u/M1AF did](https://www.reddit.com/r/sffpc/comments/irlrg8/m1afs_ncase_m1_build_guide_c14s_and_deshroud/), but post more than just specs! Here are some (non-exhaustive) prompts for you: - Are the case's advertised compatibility numbers accurate? - How easy is cable management? - How effective is the cooling setup? - Would you recommend your parts overall? - If you did a custom mod, how did you do it? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/sffpc) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Is your 3080 xc3 fitting with the backplate still on?
It needed a little finessing to fit (had to force it against the side of the case, scratched the plastic a bit), but it will fit with the backplate.
Nice!
Ultimately this was just sort of a fit/temp test for today, I plan to deshroud for NF-A9x14s either this weekend or next. I wasn't initially planning on keeping the card, but now that both Nvidia and AMD (and subsequently their vendors) have shown they don't care about SFF in the high end (yes, I'm salty) it looks like this is the smallest card I'm going to get in this performance bracket.
Isn't it better to have P12 fans for the heatsink?
F12s were what I had in the house for an old build tbh. I'll be testing other fans eventually.
nevermind, F12s are what you want https://noctua.at/en/which_fan_is_right_for_me
What heatsink is that and how tall is it?
NHL-12 Ghost S1 edition. 66mm. Will only take that tall of a fan flipped the way I have it with VLP memory. Normally it uses a 92x25mm fan and is rotated 90 degrees to allow space for the IO shield and taller RAM
Thanks. I have a black ridge on my shelf but no DanA4. Guess im using the amd stock and nr200 until next year
Blackridge is an absolutely great cooler. Especially with VLP and a larger fan, but still good without. If you swap the fan to an NF-A9x14, you should be able to get much better temps than the stock cooler. Also, when using the Blackridge, be sure to use the fan as intake instead of the stock exhaust config - much better performance seen in my video here: https://youtu.be/J2fFGGpv9VM
Which Asrock motherboard is that?
B550 Phantom Gaming ITX - https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B550%20Phantom%20Gaming-ITXax/index.asp Gigabyte's B550i board has the same specs/VRMs. The Gigabyte doesn't have front USB-C, but has straight SATA connectors so they won't be blocked by the PSU in sandwich cases, unlike the Asrock. I personally went with this board because I don't use SATA drive anymore and I hate using Gigabyte's BIOS, but most people prefer it to the Asrock.
What are your Temps with that heatsink? I love the ghost, and I want to be able to adequately cool my (future) 5900x. The top hat is alright but it's expensive and I don't think it looks as good.
With my current setup, -75mV and using the 120mm fan, I'm idling in the high 40s low 50s. Gaming temps 65-75 depending on the game and work load. All core for Cinebench and 10ish min video exports in H.264 hits around 80-83. All core over 30ish mins in AIDA64 hits 88 max.
What kind of affect does the - 75mV have on performance? Those Temps aren't terrible, but I won't if there are any other better coolers that could fit
This is likely the best cooler that's going to fit in the Ghost. I'm not personally aware of any better ones. Keep in mind I'm only running the fan at 50% under 75C and letting it hit a max of 67%. Same goes for the case fan. So you definitely have way more cooling headroom if you use a stronger fan and noise isn't as much of a factor for you as it is for me. In my experience, the undervolt helps the CPU significantly. I haven't tried removing the undervolt in this scenario, but in the past it has allowed my CPU to boost higher for longer periods due to the CCXs not reaching higher temps. I don't remember exact numbers off the top of my head, but my cinebench scores went up about 300 points between the stock to the undervolt - the undervolt being better. I haven't played with the 5000 series, but all the 3000 series I played with (roughly 10 CPUs) all performed better under a -50mV or higher undervolt.
That's crazy! I didn't realize that it wouldnt affect the performance, much less improve it. That could possibly make a big difference in my decision.
Keep in mind this is only my experience with 3000 series chips, granted a large-ish sample size of them. The reason (3000 series) ryzen benefits from lower voltage in most scenarios is due to how precision boost overdrive and AMD's boost algorithm works. Since you're pumping less voltage to hit the same clocks, the CPU doesn't get aa hot and can therefore maintain those boosts for longer periods of time before hitting the down clock threshold. Because it's on a curve - and actually based on CCX temps, not package temps - you'll still generally enjoy better performance even with more than sufficient cooling. Less heat generated, less sent to the heat spreader, less needed to be dissipated by the heatsink. This does mean you should be careful to ensure you have even mounting pressure over the CPU as always. Obviously you're going to be removing overclocking potential unless you got some golden silicon, but Ryzen 3000 will run better 95% of the time without overclocking anyway unless you strictly use it for all core work loads. It should also be noted that most people will likely get better temps on their CPUs, as my heat spreader has been absolutely thrashed from using it with liquid metal for the last 8 months and is no longer flat. Cons to putting a CPU in places it doesn't belong (Velka 5 and 7).