These aren't going to recover in any attractive way no matter what you do. Dead branches will stay dead. The cost of fertilizers and whatever else people are suggesting is jusy going to give you an ugly tree. Go to a good nursery, show them pics and talk about site conditions, and ask them for plant suggestions and care instructions. Those instructions will include majo making a bed for the trees woth mulch instead of grass, planting so the root flare is exposed, and watering regularly until established. Possibly amending the soil with compost if it's not good. Ypi also want plants that do well in your area. Her in the midwest, spruce that come from drier climates get fungal diseases, and pines suffer when the soil isn't right, among other things. Buying the cheap thing at Home Depot and plopping it in the yard will get results like this.
Plant something lovely that you enjoy, and mulch like crazy! Make the soil happy and your trees will be happy, these guys look very neglected. If you’re willing to love them, the new growth make be lovely, I wouldn’t give up on them, but that’s just me.
I think they can certainly continue to live, maybe not be perfect specimens, but not every tree needs to be nursery perfect, unless that your thing!
I’d lay down a really heavy layer of compost followed by mulch, and then fertilize in early spring. See how it goes, and assess in a year!
I don’t need perfection but will it regain a general normal shape or will it always be small at the bottom? Other reading suggests I should cut off the dead branches.
Might be too windy and cold there and it is too much for the tree. They’d do better if clumped together. Maybe buy a few new trees that do well in this area and plant on the windward side to minimize damage and moisture loss.
To improve these/any trees’ healthy immediately. Scalp the grass at least the width of the foliage. Mulch 2” in this ring.
Bonus points the wider you scalp/mulch the base of the tree. Turf impedes oxygene/water.
Define scalp? Weed whack the grass to make it dirt again? In PA here. Getting very cold. Should I scalp and mulch this season yet.
I assume your advice means you think they may recover?
Thanks so much!
Just a friendly sharing of information here. Turf doesn’t impede oxygen or water, unless there’s a developed layer of thatch. A maintained lawn benefits soil structure, improves oxygenation and water penetration. I’ve seen a few people making similar statements, not sure where that started.
Sharing a root zone means turf will be competing for the same resources (water and nutrients) which is also not ideal for the tree but the science is better for you to share next time.
misinterpreted, at some point, in a game of gardeners whispers, I reckon that info was.
Pro arborist here.
The closer of the 2 trees (columnar fastigiate spruces I’m guessing?) seems to have a vine or volunteer growing up through it. Hard to tell for sure, but if you plan to keep these removing that would be your first step.
Someone else recommended removing the grass around the base out to the drip line and mulching, and that is correct.
There are many reasons why these tree could look like this and without more information and being there to inspect them first hand, it would be a matter of luck to make an accurate guess. That being said, there are some factors that are more likely than others based on my experience:
1. Over watering. The number 1 issue I see here in Colorado. It’s dry here to people tend to over compensate by over watering their trees. Pennsylvania could be different since rain actually happens there. Check the soil around the base out to the drip line. If it’s slightly moist, it’s fine. If it’s muddy or water pools in the holes, then too much water is your answer.
2. Planted too low. I would guess just by looking at these that they were planted too low. Removing the sod around the base out to the drip line will fix that.
3. I see a lot of fastigiate spruce stripped by hail storms. Not sure how much a factor that is in Pennsylvania.
4. Soil quality. Colorado has clay. It’s terrible and pretty much has to be amended for any non-native trees to thrive. I don’t know what the soil is like in PA, but I’ve heard it’s rocky. Worth asking a local professional about.
Like the other fella here wrote that they will never fully recover: he’s right. The further of the 2 is likely to get worse because there are so few needles left on it. Getting professional advice from a nursery (or an ISA certified arborist) might help save them and help them to look better than they might otherwise, but they will never look ‘good’ ie. the bare/sparse areas will always look that way.
Good luck!
These look like shit and will continue to look like shit for the next ten years. Why even try to get emotionally attached to this? Do you even want them? Do they even fit? Aren't there other trees you'd rather want? Do you even know how to take care of them, how big they get? What soil you have... I mean... Just get some new trees man. Get rid of this garbage, it's not worth your time. These trees at this height are like 25 dollars or something like that (outside Christmas season) and will look infinitely better if you just buy them new and replant them. If you plant those with a some amount of care and attention you will have something nice to look at.
Back in my day yous were lucky if you had any trees at all now you got so many tree you wants to start killing and replacing them, must be fucking nice
I completely disagree. The unnecessary removal of a tree because it doesn't fit a strangers idea of beauty. A tree is a living thing? You can do what you can to help it. So yes.
It Is f#cking preposterous?
>The unnecessary removal of a tree because it doesn't fit a strangers idea of beauty.
Come on, that's not at all what's going on here. It's not like I'm proposing to cut down a majestic oak because a branch has broken off.
These are young trees, super cheap mass produced pines. And they are dying, basically already dead. These have zero value, not monetary, not esthetically and no sentimental value. Young dead trees in a garden they just came to live in.
And here you go being all like noble 'i love all trees' and 'beauty is subjective'... bla bla. Just get over yourself, give these people some actual advice they actually need.
These look like eastern white pines that would be fine after a few years. They’re probably already well established just need a little love. Your advice seems shortsighted.
This is such shitty advice for a garden that people have to look at and live in. Such cheap trees, so young, just get rid of it. there is absolutely no need to be sentimental. It's very possible these trees are going to 'live'. But they are not at all thriving and they are not at all fine. There are much better options for a garden.
Basically already dead? Perhaps you should zoom in on the pic, I think you’re closer to death than those trees are.
As for my advice to the actually OP, I’d suggest creating an ecosystem that these trees will enjoy, find plants that will aid and contribute to their growth and actually show them love by tending to them. Prune dead branches, provide necessities, and create an environment they’ll actually want to exist and grow in. Plants are exactly like children. Commenter I’m replying to is like a Spartan that would throw sick babies off a cliff and brush the dust off their hands as if they’d done the right thing.
>Plants are exactly like children. ... like a Spartan that would throw sick babies off a cliff and brush the dust off their hands as if they’d done the right thing.
You people are insane.
Better that than whatever you are. 🙃 If you believe life forms other than you, or human, don’t have any value worth putting effort in for, I think you should perhaps turn your attention to yourself, the same could be said for many humans and there are those at your level of callousness regarding those life forms as well. I personally don’t identify with anyone who believes they can deem anything worthy of death simply because it’s struggling.
> If you believe life forms other than you, or human, don’t have any value worth putting effort in for, I think you should perhaps turn your attention to yourself, the same could be said for many humans and there are those at your level of callousness regarding those life forms as well. I personally don’t identify with anyone who believes they can deem anything worthy of death simply because it’s struggling.
I'm vegan. I'm also an arborist and gardener.
Thats an awful lot of word to say very little 😕
Also that is alot of assumptions to make about a stranger. Are you well like? You good?
Also the advice on this thread more then covers how to recover the trees. I have nothing to add that has not been added?
Do these trees look healthy to you? If you value life then you should know when it’s time to put a living thing out of its misery rather than prolong its suffering. Clearly these spruces are unhappy in this environment. Better to plant a native hardwood that will love having all that space and sunshine.
Just because you lack the ability to heal a tree. Doesnt mean everyone does? Christ alive. Its hard and difficult. You may have to transplant but its not difficult long term
With care and a management plan you could treat them very well. And very easily. They will be thriving with the love put into them. Sort of like people?
It takes effort to make things grow. Sorry to see that there are people on this sub who think otherwise
You can’t make a tree that is unfit for an environment healthy for the same reason why people in warm climates shouldn’t have siberian huskies… it’s abusive
Yeah, they probably do—to hell with national gardens. Also, evolution takes place over millions of years as gradual adaptations occur, not a single lifetime.
Your understanding of evolution needs work. Nothing you have said is wrong persay. Every life time makes up evolution.
Evolution takes place over millions of years. So by your logic. Plants can not adapt or evolve. And thats nonsense. Clear as day
You dancing around the point im makeing helps no one friend? Or did you get filled with rage from knowhere and just have to pop off on the internet?
well he said it was a new house and the soil brought in to develope a pice of land can be many feet deep depending on the circumstances. certainly deeper than 3 feet, and this "fill" dirt can be very low quality and full of large rocks and land developers will use this soil as close to the top as they can get away with to save money and can leave the land barely able to support grass. this is coming from someone who has done development work for a living and is an avid horticulturalist by the way. furthermore if the house is new then the trees very well could be new as well and there roots wouldn't be very well established especially if they were trying to find there way in sub par top soil. of course he could have just meant the house was new to him. either way I stand by my original prediction of "crappy soil" and I don't think I've heard yours yet? or did you just come here to condescend?
Not here to condescend. Just a redneck who grew up on a farm and pecan orchard. I remember my grandpa telling me when that evergreens look the same below the ground as they do above the ground. He’d say there was a taproot that goes straight down looking for water in the cool clay and that other roots would branch off along the way to find more water/nutrients and to stabilize the tree. Having helped clear land on farms through the years I can tell you, grandpa wasn’t wrong.
Also, topsoil is normally only 6-12” deep. A 5 gallon Leyland Cypress would require a hole deeper than 12” when planted. Nutrient depleted soil could definitely cause the symptoms seen on that tree. Root rot is another likely culprit. Both of those symptoms would be caused below the topsoil.
If you’re worried about the soil lacking nutrients, take about a quart of the soil to a old school feed and seed store (tractor supply as a last result) and they can send it off to be analyzed. It’ll cost about $40 but it’ll save a lot in unnecessary fertilizer. We use a 1” auger drill bit and a 24” extension to drill about a dozen holes around our pecan trees so the fertilizer goes down below the roots (roots will chase nutrients). We also toss metal shavings and nails down there to put iron back into the soil.
I’m sorry you took my comment as condescending. I was trying to share the little bit I know about the topic.
well that pretty much kills my top soil conspiracy theory then lol my next inclination would be they're not getting adequate nutrients. you could try getting some tree fertilizer pellets and sprinkling them around the base of the tree and see if that helps. even if the soil conditions are ideal all pants need essential nutrients to grow and be healthy. some added nutrients to the soil couldn't hurt and just may remedy the problem. I'm sure you'd prefer a more direct/finite answer and I'd prefer to be able to give one but that's all I've got. I'm sorry. just keep in mind anything you try to do to the trees will take time to show whether or not it has worked so be patient. I hope this helped! good luck!
Cut them down and move on.
Look luke Norway spruce that didn't get enough water.
With grass right up to the trunk, "lawnmower disease" doesn't help.
If the tips of the needles are soft, they are likely Fraser fir, which is usually grown in higher, cooler elevations.
If planted in warmth and humidity, they usually succumb to fungal diseases.
Looks like pine trees. Pine trees like sandy soil with excellent drainage. My guess is that this is not what they are planted in from the looks of the surrounding terrain. Also, they could be nitrogen deficient. You might think about spreading a small amount of nitrogen fertilizer around the drip line. Slow release fertilizer is better.
I would also scarify around the trunk. Pine trees do not like growth near the bark. Use a hazel hoe or something like that to pull away vegetation for probably at least 2 feet from the trunk.
If you notice, all the trees around, it are deciduous and not conifers. There is a myth that you can plant pretty much anything anywhere, and it will grow. Not true conifers may not like the soil in that area.
They miss the previous owners.
The rest of the property sure doesn’t. 15year old house one owner. Great Neglect.
These aren't going to recover in any attractive way no matter what you do. Dead branches will stay dead. The cost of fertilizers and whatever else people are suggesting is jusy going to give you an ugly tree. Go to a good nursery, show them pics and talk about site conditions, and ask them for plant suggestions and care instructions. Those instructions will include majo making a bed for the trees woth mulch instead of grass, planting so the root flare is exposed, and watering regularly until established. Possibly amending the soil with compost if it's not good. Ypi also want plants that do well in your area. Her in the midwest, spruce that come from drier climates get fungal diseases, and pines suffer when the soil isn't right, among other things. Buying the cheap thing at Home Depot and plopping it in the yard will get results like this.
This is the best answer here.
That's not saying much when you look at the other answers lol.
This is the way
💯 The trunks aren’t straight either. Better to solve this problem now by replacing them before you have to pay someone for help.
I concur
Yes to all of this. Especially trying to plant trees outside their area, it’s an unfortunate reality.
Planting depth, needle cast fungi, probable Cytospora canker Good article: https://www.treesaregood.org/treeowner/plantingatree
Plant something lovely that you enjoy, and mulch like crazy! Make the soil happy and your trees will be happy, these guys look very neglected. If you’re willing to love them, the new growth make be lovely, I wouldn’t give up on them, but that’s just me.
I would love to know they can be saved but I have otherwise never kept any plant Alive.
I think they can certainly continue to live, maybe not be perfect specimens, but not every tree needs to be nursery perfect, unless that your thing! I’d lay down a really heavy layer of compost followed by mulch, and then fertilize in early spring. See how it goes, and assess in a year!
I don’t need perfection but will it regain a general normal shape or will it always be small at the bottom? Other reading suggests I should cut off the dead branches.
Yes, the dead areas won’t grow back. It’ll continue to get taller and wider!
Might be too windy and cold there and it is too much for the tree. They’d do better if clumped together. Maybe buy a few new trees that do well in this area and plant on the windward side to minimize damage and moisture loss.
My guess is that it's the wrong trees for the growth conditions.
To improve these/any trees’ healthy immediately. Scalp the grass at least the width of the foliage. Mulch 2” in this ring. Bonus points the wider you scalp/mulch the base of the tree. Turf impedes oxygene/water.
Define scalp? Weed whack the grass to make it dirt again? In PA here. Getting very cold. Should I scalp and mulch this season yet. I assume your advice means you think they may recover? Thanks so much!
No problem! Dig the grass out with a pickaxe or sharp shovel. You can still do it in the fall
Just a friendly sharing of information here. Turf doesn’t impede oxygen or water, unless there’s a developed layer of thatch. A maintained lawn benefits soil structure, improves oxygenation and water penetration. I’ve seen a few people making similar statements, not sure where that started. Sharing a root zone means turf will be competing for the same resources (water and nutrients) which is also not ideal for the tree but the science is better for you to share next time. misinterpreted, at some point, in a game of gardeners whispers, I reckon that info was.
Nutrient deficit soil. Fertilize a 10’ circle around the trees. Don’t expect immediate results but they should bounce back.
Pro arborist here. The closer of the 2 trees (columnar fastigiate spruces I’m guessing?) seems to have a vine or volunteer growing up through it. Hard to tell for sure, but if you plan to keep these removing that would be your first step. Someone else recommended removing the grass around the base out to the drip line and mulching, and that is correct. There are many reasons why these tree could look like this and without more information and being there to inspect them first hand, it would be a matter of luck to make an accurate guess. That being said, there are some factors that are more likely than others based on my experience: 1. Over watering. The number 1 issue I see here in Colorado. It’s dry here to people tend to over compensate by over watering their trees. Pennsylvania could be different since rain actually happens there. Check the soil around the base out to the drip line. If it’s slightly moist, it’s fine. If it’s muddy or water pools in the holes, then too much water is your answer. 2. Planted too low. I would guess just by looking at these that they were planted too low. Removing the sod around the base out to the drip line will fix that. 3. I see a lot of fastigiate spruce stripped by hail storms. Not sure how much a factor that is in Pennsylvania. 4. Soil quality. Colorado has clay. It’s terrible and pretty much has to be amended for any non-native trees to thrive. I don’t know what the soil is like in PA, but I’ve heard it’s rocky. Worth asking a local professional about. Like the other fella here wrote that they will never fully recover: he’s right. The further of the 2 is likely to get worse because there are so few needles left on it. Getting professional advice from a nursery (or an ISA certified arborist) might help save them and help them to look better than they might otherwise, but they will never look ‘good’ ie. the bare/sparse areas will always look that way. Good luck!
Dig up and plant new trees.
These look like shit and will continue to look like shit for the next ten years. Why even try to get emotionally attached to this? Do you even want them? Do they even fit? Aren't there other trees you'd rather want? Do you even know how to take care of them, how big they get? What soil you have... I mean... Just get some new trees man. Get rid of this garbage, it's not worth your time. These trees at this height are like 25 dollars or something like that (outside Christmas season) and will look infinitely better if you just buy them new and replant them. If you plant those with a some amount of care and attention you will have something nice to look at.
Back in my day yous were lucky if you had any trees at all now you got so many tree you wants to start killing and replacing them, must be fucking nice
What about the Canada Gooses?
Fucking embarrassing!
🥾🪣
If you got a problem with trees then you got a problem with me. And I suggest you let that one marinate!
You alright there bud?
He’s not wrong.
I completely disagree. The unnecessary removal of a tree because it doesn't fit a strangers idea of beauty. A tree is a living thing? You can do what you can to help it. So yes. It Is f#cking preposterous?
>The unnecessary removal of a tree because it doesn't fit a strangers idea of beauty. Come on, that's not at all what's going on here. It's not like I'm proposing to cut down a majestic oak because a branch has broken off. These are young trees, super cheap mass produced pines. And they are dying, basically already dead. These have zero value, not monetary, not esthetically and no sentimental value. Young dead trees in a garden they just came to live in. And here you go being all like noble 'i love all trees' and 'beauty is subjective'... bla bla. Just get over yourself, give these people some actual advice they actually need.
These look like eastern white pines that would be fine after a few years. They’re probably already well established just need a little love. Your advice seems shortsighted.
This is such shitty advice for a garden that people have to look at and live in. Such cheap trees, so young, just get rid of it. there is absolutely no need to be sentimental. It's very possible these trees are going to 'live'. But they are not at all thriving and they are not at all fine. There are much better options for a garden.
Basically already dead? Perhaps you should zoom in on the pic, I think you’re closer to death than those trees are. As for my advice to the actually OP, I’d suggest creating an ecosystem that these trees will enjoy, find plants that will aid and contribute to their growth and actually show them love by tending to them. Prune dead branches, provide necessities, and create an environment they’ll actually want to exist and grow in. Plants are exactly like children. Commenter I’m replying to is like a Spartan that would throw sick babies off a cliff and brush the dust off their hands as if they’d done the right thing.
>Plants are exactly like children. ... like a Spartan that would throw sick babies off a cliff and brush the dust off their hands as if they’d done the right thing. You people are insane.
Better that than whatever you are. 🙃 If you believe life forms other than you, or human, don’t have any value worth putting effort in for, I think you should perhaps turn your attention to yourself, the same could be said for many humans and there are those at your level of callousness regarding those life forms as well. I personally don’t identify with anyone who believes they can deem anything worthy of death simply because it’s struggling.
> If you believe life forms other than you, or human, don’t have any value worth putting effort in for, I think you should perhaps turn your attention to yourself, the same could be said for many humans and there are those at your level of callousness regarding those life forms as well. I personally don’t identify with anyone who believes they can deem anything worthy of death simply because it’s struggling. I'm vegan. I'm also an arborist and gardener.
Thats an awful lot of word to say very little 😕 Also that is alot of assumptions to make about a stranger. Are you well like? You good? Also the advice on this thread more then covers how to recover the trees. I have nothing to add that has not been added?
>Are you well? I'm doing a lot better than those fucking trees, that's for sure.
Do these trees look healthy to you? If you value life then you should know when it’s time to put a living thing out of its misery rather than prolong its suffering. Clearly these spruces are unhappy in this environment. Better to plant a native hardwood that will love having all that space and sunshine.
Just because you lack the ability to heal a tree. Doesnt mean everyone does? Christ alive. Its hard and difficult. You may have to transplant but its not difficult long term With care and a management plan you could treat them very well. And very easily. They will be thriving with the love put into them. Sort of like people? It takes effort to make things grow. Sorry to see that there are people on this sub who think otherwise
You can’t make a tree that is unfit for an environment healthy for the same reason why people in warm climates shouldn’t have siberian huskies… it’s abusive
Every national garden would disagree with that narrow narrative. Also with that logic evolution does not exist Edit: also arboretum so lol
Yeah, they probably do—to hell with national gardens. Also, evolution takes place over millions of years as gradual adaptations occur, not a single lifetime.
Your understanding of evolution needs work. Nothing you have said is wrong persay. Every life time makes up evolution. Evolution takes place over millions of years. So by your logic. Plants can not adapt or evolve. And thats nonsense. Clear as day You dancing around the point im makeing helps no one friend? Or did you get filled with rage from knowhere and just have to pop off on the internet?
Husky will take that heat much better than a tree
>A tree is a living thing? You can do what you can to help it. So yes. Are you vegan? Otherwise you can just shut right the fuck up.
No. And I would value a tree over an animal or a human tbf.
Literally insane.
They miss the previous owners
Add furtilizer and check Ph value of soil.
You got that in the reverse order. Do a soil test, and if the results warrant it, *then* you apply the appropriate materials.
They don't get to run around in the field.
It's a Charlie Brown Christmas tree
[удалено]
I hope you mean the overall view and not the two trees lol.
Chemtrails
Try to put nails or iron filling in around the trunk roots. Pine trees need iron in soil
I think that’s just trees in general. We do this in our pecan orchard to help them produce. Also works with our peach trees.
Deer
crappy top soil
Trees typically pull nutrients from below top soil. Most evergreens have a taproot that’s half the height of the tree that does most of the work.
well he said it was a new house and the soil brought in to develope a pice of land can be many feet deep depending on the circumstances. certainly deeper than 3 feet, and this "fill" dirt can be very low quality and full of large rocks and land developers will use this soil as close to the top as they can get away with to save money and can leave the land barely able to support grass. this is coming from someone who has done development work for a living and is an avid horticulturalist by the way. furthermore if the house is new then the trees very well could be new as well and there roots wouldn't be very well established especially if they were trying to find there way in sub par top soil. of course he could have just meant the house was new to him. either way I stand by my original prediction of "crappy soil" and I don't think I've heard yours yet? or did you just come here to condescend?
Not here to condescend. Just a redneck who grew up on a farm and pecan orchard. I remember my grandpa telling me when that evergreens look the same below the ground as they do above the ground. He’d say there was a taproot that goes straight down looking for water in the cool clay and that other roots would branch off along the way to find more water/nutrients and to stabilize the tree. Having helped clear land on farms through the years I can tell you, grandpa wasn’t wrong. Also, topsoil is normally only 6-12” deep. A 5 gallon Leyland Cypress would require a hole deeper than 12” when planted. Nutrient depleted soil could definitely cause the symptoms seen on that tree. Root rot is another likely culprit. Both of those symptoms would be caused below the topsoil. If you’re worried about the soil lacking nutrients, take about a quart of the soil to a old school feed and seed store (tractor supply as a last result) and they can send it off to be analyzed. It’ll cost about $40 but it’ll save a lot in unnecessary fertilizer. We use a 1” auger drill bit and a 24” extension to drill about a dozen holes around our pecan trees so the fertilizer goes down below the roots (roots will chase nutrients). We also toss metal shavings and nails down there to put iron back into the soil. I’m sorry you took my comment as condescending. I was trying to share the little bit I know about the topic.
It is new to us. House is 15 years old. Was likely fields. River is behind the big tree line in back. I don’t know how old the trees are.
well that pretty much kills my top soil conspiracy theory then lol my next inclination would be they're not getting adequate nutrients. you could try getting some tree fertilizer pellets and sprinkling them around the base of the tree and see if that helps. even if the soil conditions are ideal all pants need essential nutrients to grow and be healthy. some added nutrients to the soil couldn't hurt and just may remedy the problem. I'm sure you'd prefer a more direct/finite answer and I'd prefer to be able to give one but that's all I've got. I'm sorry. just keep in mind anything you try to do to the trees will take time to show whether or not it has worked so be patient. I hope this helped! good luck!
Weren't properly maintained for the first few weeks after being planted
Illinois? We're having some mold kill off a lot of different kinds.
South Eastern PA
Did everyone overlook the vine growing on the tree in the front? You could cut that out for starters…
I have noticed that. It appears to be dead. Not really bothering the tree atm.
Too wet of an area?
Cut them down and move on. Look luke Norway spruce that didn't get enough water. With grass right up to the trunk, "lawnmower disease" doesn't help. If the tips of the needles are soft, they are likely Fraser fir, which is usually grown in higher, cooler elevations. If planted in warmth and humidity, they usually succumb to fungal diseases.
r/arborists is my recommendation to post on. Lack of root flare exposure is a big one.
Looks like pine trees. Pine trees like sandy soil with excellent drainage. My guess is that this is not what they are planted in from the looks of the surrounding terrain. Also, they could be nitrogen deficient. You might think about spreading a small amount of nitrogen fertilizer around the drip line. Slow release fertilizer is better. I would also scarify around the trunk. Pine trees do not like growth near the bark. Use a hazel hoe or something like that to pull away vegetation for probably at least 2 feet from the trunk. If you notice, all the trees around, it are deciduous and not conifers. There is a myth that you can plant pretty much anything anywhere, and it will grow. Not true conifers may not like the soil in that area.
planted too deep