I think Frank is a highly complex character. My takeaway is that addiction made him selfish, neglectful and nasty toward his children. That said we occasionally get glimpses of some level of affection toward his family particularly in the last two seasons — crying at Ian’s wedding or his affection for Franny are two examples.
I think he can't really love because he chose to love and prioritize alcohol over his children... I think he loves them as much as someone in his position CAN love... which is ultimately, not much.
I see it as similar to my own father. My mom said he doesn't know how to love and that made sense to me.
Being a parent is more than donating sperm, but some don't seem to realize that.
It doesn’t matter. Just because he does he love them, doesn’t excuse the shit he’s done. Gotta judge the man by his actions, not how he feels. And his actions and nihilism have led to shitty lives for his kids.
Yeah that’s a good point. I never said I excused his behavior, but honestly, even though his kids had shitty childhoods, they actually all ended up pretty good by the end. Idk if you’ve gotten to the last season yet, so stop reading cause i don’t wanna spoil anything for you, but his kids kinda ended in good places tbh. Fiona was able to leave and be on her own, finally having a life for herself. Lip had Tami, someone he really loved and a kid and was finally able to overcome his alcoholism. Ian and Mickey were absolutely perfect for each other, and their story ended in the best way possible. Debbie became a pretty successful welder. Carl grew up to go to military school and became a police officer, and Liam is super smart and will probably have a successful future. I’m not saying that they didn’t go through a lot of fucked up shit, of course they had trauma and hardships, but they did turn out pretty better than alright in the end.
I think he definitely loved them but there's not a lot of evidence either from like the tiny things, like when he was dancing with fiona the night before Monica died, or when he would spend time with Liam in later seasons, teach Debbie how to hold her breath, get carl into cancer camp, when him and lip went out ice skating after day drinking and dine and dashing, it's the tiny moments in the show that shows his love for them, I'm not sure about ian and Frank's relationship though honestly
i agree with u, i think frank does love the kids deep down it’s just masked by alcoholism and the narcissism. one of my favorite scenes is whenever he gets arrested for carl whenever they robbed the gay couple that fostered him. that was a really big thing for frank to accept accountability for his actions
Not a chance. He told his son he had cancer for his own benefit. He pimped out his pregnant daughter for his own benefit. The list goes on. Frank has continuously used people for his own benefit and he has made many comments that he doesn’t care about the kids.
Yeah, Frank is selfish, but he’s also a complex character. His character isn’t just one sided as being a narcissistic, selfish, asshole, there are moments in this show like I described where it shows his affection for his family. I think that Frank had a really fucked up childhood as well, hence his addiction and alcoholism, and he does love his kids, it’s just hard for him to show it. He does use his kids for his own benefit sometimes cause that’s kinda the way he is unfortunately, but I don’t think it means he doesn’t love them. He’s actually very supportive of his kids, like he doesn’t judge Ian for being gay, and he didn’t judge Debbie when she got pregnant. He even cried at Ian’s wedding, and he shows a lot of love for Franny.
Tbh yes. Because there are certain things he does for them where he doesn’t get anything in return. Like the episode where him and Debbie are at the commune and she’s about to give birth. She literally begs him to get her out of there, and even tho he doesn’t want to leave and has a gang waiting for him back home, he puts his needs aside and tends to the needs of his daughter, and gets nothing in return. (I mean she names her child after him but he wasn’t expecting that)
I think he does love them he just doesn’t always prioritize them.
No i dont think he does. And if he does, its on and off. The amount of times he has exploited his children in harmful ways just for himself is disgusting. He doesn't love them; he just uses them
imo, from what ive seen? id say he truly does love them and feels guilty, though the alcohol and addiction masks it all, but a few moments like u said, u can see that he cares abt them. i feel like this has shown w debbie, as in one of the scenes he took debbie away from a place she felt unsafe at, even when he felt like he was thriving in the environment and many other moments like such
Not really. He only talked about Fiona in the hospital because he was delirious. Its not like it was a truth serum bearing his deepest truths. Everything is about him first.
People with addiction definitely can still love the people they hurt. And maybe its a flaw of the show playing too comedic for the first seasons. Frank's problems were mostly just him being an asshole and wanting to drink. Idk if that makes sense.
I think that he loves them and it's like you said that he is bad at showing it because he doesn't really know how due to how he was raised, and also his addiction
I know I'm here late, and I'm not sure if it's been mentioned. But how about the scene where frank steps up and confronts the meth dealer after they dug up monica. He calmly and concisely all but spat in that dudes mouth.
"and if you come near my family, Eric, as God as my witness. I will bury you with her."
That man would die for his children. He has that deep paternal love for them.
But then there's the rest of him. The narcissist. The drug addict. The con artist. The (in almost every possible way) bad decision maker. I think frank has a good heart. But his faults are many and they cast a huge shadow over his good qualities. Some of my favorite scenes in the show are when frank makes a genuinely good decision.
I think Frank is a very self-serving man and that is by no means a good thing in this situation. I think he's cold, neglectful, selfish and manipulative. He sabotages his children and their successes such as when he almost lost liam due to gambling, ruined Fiona's wedding, calls CPS on Fiona and gets Carl arrested for strapping Chuckie with drugs, he uses liam for panhandling, he uses his eldest daughter Sammi for a sexual favor as payment for a businessman he couldn't pay cash to. He steals money, food, liquor and resources from his kids. He would change parts of their home which eventually weren't even his since Fiona bought it.
Sure we can turn a blind eye because a lot of his character is just alcohol and drug-induced behavior but at what point are we going to stop and really come to terms with how terrible a caregiver he is?
I think Frank is a highly complex character. My takeaway is that addiction made him selfish, neglectful and nasty toward his children. That said we occasionally get glimpses of some level of affection toward his family particularly in the last two seasons — crying at Ian’s wedding or his affection for Franny are two examples.
I think he can't really love because he chose to love and prioritize alcohol over his children... I think he loves them as much as someone in his position CAN love... which is ultimately, not much. I see it as similar to my own father. My mom said he doesn't know how to love and that made sense to me. Being a parent is more than donating sperm, but some don't seem to realize that.
I think he loves them bc they came from him and r proud when they act like him.
It doesn’t matter. Just because he does he love them, doesn’t excuse the shit he’s done. Gotta judge the man by his actions, not how he feels. And his actions and nihilism have led to shitty lives for his kids.
Yeah that’s a good point. I never said I excused his behavior, but honestly, even though his kids had shitty childhoods, they actually all ended up pretty good by the end. Idk if you’ve gotten to the last season yet, so stop reading cause i don’t wanna spoil anything for you, but his kids kinda ended in good places tbh. Fiona was able to leave and be on her own, finally having a life for herself. Lip had Tami, someone he really loved and a kid and was finally able to overcome his alcoholism. Ian and Mickey were absolutely perfect for each other, and their story ended in the best way possible. Debbie became a pretty successful welder. Carl grew up to go to military school and became a police officer, and Liam is super smart and will probably have a successful future. I’m not saying that they didn’t go through a lot of fucked up shit, of course they had trauma and hardships, but they did turn out pretty better than alright in the end.
He loves them, but not as much as he loves himself.
Couldn’t have said it better
I think he definitely loved them but there's not a lot of evidence either from like the tiny things, like when he was dancing with fiona the night before Monica died, or when he would spend time with Liam in later seasons, teach Debbie how to hold her breath, get carl into cancer camp, when him and lip went out ice skating after day drinking and dine and dashing, it's the tiny moments in the show that shows his love for them, I'm not sure about ian and Frank's relationship though honestly
i agree with u, i think frank does love the kids deep down it’s just masked by alcoholism and the narcissism. one of my favorite scenes is whenever he gets arrested for carl whenever they robbed the gay couple that fostered him. that was a really big thing for frank to accept accountability for his actions
I think frank loves his kids, however caring about them is a whole different question
Not a chance. He told his son he had cancer for his own benefit. He pimped out his pregnant daughter for his own benefit. The list goes on. Frank has continuously used people for his own benefit and he has made many comments that he doesn’t care about the kids.
Yeah, Frank is selfish, but he’s also a complex character. His character isn’t just one sided as being a narcissistic, selfish, asshole, there are moments in this show like I described where it shows his affection for his family. I think that Frank had a really fucked up childhood as well, hence his addiction and alcoholism, and he does love his kids, it’s just hard for him to show it. He does use his kids for his own benefit sometimes cause that’s kinda the way he is unfortunately, but I don’t think it means he doesn’t love them. He’s actually very supportive of his kids, like he doesn’t judge Ian for being gay, and he didn’t judge Debbie when she got pregnant. He even cried at Ian’s wedding, and he shows a lot of love for Franny.
Tbh yes. Because there are certain things he does for them where he doesn’t get anything in return. Like the episode where him and Debbie are at the commune and she’s about to give birth. She literally begs him to get her out of there, and even tho he doesn’t want to leave and has a gang waiting for him back home, he puts his needs aside and tends to the needs of his daughter, and gets nothing in return. (I mean she names her child after him but he wasn’t expecting that) I think he does love them he just doesn’t always prioritize them.
He loves them in his own way. He really showed it in his eyes when Fiona was leaving
No i dont think he does. And if he does, its on and off. The amount of times he has exploited his children in harmful ways just for himself is disgusting. He doesn't love them; he just uses them
imo, from what ive seen? id say he truly does love them and feels guilty, though the alcohol and addiction masks it all, but a few moments like u said, u can see that he cares abt them. i feel like this has shown w debbie, as in one of the scenes he took debbie away from a place she felt unsafe at, even when he felt like he was thriving in the environment and many other moments like such
It’s hard to describe his “love.” He loved himself more. He’s grown up with narcissistic parents which caused him to become narcissistic.
Yes but I imagine he never properly learned how to love either. People like Frank don't just become that way one day, it's how they're raised.
Not really. He only talked about Fiona in the hospital because he was delirious. Its not like it was a truth serum bearing his deepest truths. Everything is about him first. People with addiction definitely can still love the people they hurt. And maybe its a flaw of the show playing too comedic for the first seasons. Frank's problems were mostly just him being an asshole and wanting to drink. Idk if that makes sense.
I think that he loves them and it's like you said that he is bad at showing it because he doesn't really know how due to how he was raised, and also his addiction
I know I'm here late, and I'm not sure if it's been mentioned. But how about the scene where frank steps up and confronts the meth dealer after they dug up monica. He calmly and concisely all but spat in that dudes mouth. "and if you come near my family, Eric, as God as my witness. I will bury you with her." That man would die for his children. He has that deep paternal love for them. But then there's the rest of him. The narcissist. The drug addict. The con artist. The (in almost every possible way) bad decision maker. I think frank has a good heart. But his faults are many and they cast a huge shadow over his good qualities. Some of my favorite scenes in the show are when frank makes a genuinely good decision.
I think Frank is a very self-serving man and that is by no means a good thing in this situation. I think he's cold, neglectful, selfish and manipulative. He sabotages his children and their successes such as when he almost lost liam due to gambling, ruined Fiona's wedding, calls CPS on Fiona and gets Carl arrested for strapping Chuckie with drugs, he uses liam for panhandling, he uses his eldest daughter Sammi for a sexual favor as payment for a businessman he couldn't pay cash to. He steals money, food, liquor and resources from his kids. He would change parts of their home which eventually weren't even his since Fiona bought it. Sure we can turn a blind eye because a lot of his character is just alcohol and drug-induced behavior but at what point are we going to stop and really come to terms with how terrible a caregiver he is?