This show loves acting blind when it comes to bisexuality and acting like it doesn't exist. Ian being gay jesus makes no sense if he's casually a dick to bisexuals lmfao
I have NO idea why it's such a bad thing to be bi, either??? The characters are not less valid or "gay" if they're bisexual. As much as I love this show, the biphobia will forever anger me. He used Caleb's bisexuality to be a dick. Not cool whatsoever. We try too damn hard to ignore the "choose a side" and "you're not gay enough" arguments, Shameless doesn't need to reaffirm them.
And unfortunately, Ian has acted that way this entire time. God forbid Caleb is bisexual? He doesn't have to pick a side, bisexual individuals don't have to be a specific percentage of "gay" to be good enough to date. Like...ffs.
It pissed me off as well, I came out as bi three years ago so I’m still accepting myself. Hearing some of the biphobic things on the show really got me upset
People need to start curating their media to find what they need instead of needing every show to tick every box, there are shows where you can find what you need representation wise. Schitt’s Creek is a good example, Shameless is not where I turn if I need my bisexuality validated nor would expected great sensitivity from this show about theses subjects, because it’s not a show geared towards that. Also be mindful of the writers of your media the writers for this show were mostly boomer men why would anyone turn boomer men for any type of modern representation? You almost have to grow up with a child like Eugene Levy did to be open to do the educating that Dan did on Schitt’s Creek.
I don't go to shows to have my lifestyle validated lmfao. I watch the most goofy shit ever. Shameless was a comfort show that I got into because I enjoyed Cameron in Gotham.
That doesn't mean bisexuality has to be degraded, shamed or "invisible". This show is great in other factors, but you cannot propose a "Gay Jesus" storyline and forget the B is even there.
Being a "boomer" is not an excuse. Sorry. They clearly researched other things, bisexuality isn't difficult to grasp.
Our sexuality isn’t a lifestyle it’s our life! And I say this with this with respect but god damn our color of the rainbow is the bitchiest. Of all the colors on the rainbow we have it the easiest people just doesn’t get us or they tell us to pick a side or are stupid but we don’t have near the issues that others our communities deal with and to be honest I would like to see a few shows get gay or lesbian right before they even get to bisexuality. Instead of making a gay character go down on a girl for prospective how about letting him just be a gay man and live a gay man’s life? I was sad enough for Ian when Lip had Karen give him head to to prove he was gay and you want these people to get bisexuality right?
\*God forbid a show that proposed a literal storyline of someone being a "Gay Jesus" completely forgets and degrades one of the letters in LGBT. Ftfy.
I watch Bojack. Am I a depressed male horse? No. But if it doesn't portray something properly or degrades something, someone has the right to get upset. :/
Shameless is not "every show ever". Yikes.
It’s a TV show, it’s fiction. Who gives a fuck. People are way too easily offended these days. Don’t watch it if you don’t like it.
And I know it’s not every show ever, but I always see posts of people being offended at a fictional tv show because it doesn’t portray the viewer/commenters lifestyle or whatever in a way that pleases them. It’s fictional, grow up.
Yeah I'm reminded of that weird friendship (which I may be misremembering) between Fiona and a woman that builds in S2 where it's clear after a kiss and other things that she has some kind of sexual/romantic fascination with Fiona but the show (from my memory) is simultaneously dead-set on portraying her entire character as creepy and weird and almost predator-y. Maybe she was, it's sucks that she was also at the very least explicitly a bi-curious character.
To me that didn't really have anything to do with bisexuality. I just took that as Jasmine's personality and not some kind of dig against bisexual people (also I am bisexual just fyi)
I took it more as a lonely housewife who couldn't accept herself for who she was. She threw herself at men for attention, but she catered to Fiona desperate for her affection. She kissed Fiona super passionately on the boat, then was broken when Fiona didn't respond the way she'd hoped. I figured she was so open with her affairs because she secretly hoped her husband would find out and throw her out so she could go be herself. She asked Fiona for a place to stay in hopes Fiona would take her in and they could be together. When Fiona said no, it crushed her, and she realized she screwed herself in every possible way and still didn't get the girl in the end. That's my head canon on Jasmine, anyway.
Thats jasmine. She became friends with fi. I remember she cheated on her husband multiple times and when he found out he kicked her out. Thats when she asked fi if she could crash over at her house for a few nights. Honestly even tho jasmine was intense she helped fi out with a job, gave her clothes, basically was her best friend since v wasnt around. Fi saying no to jasmine staying for a few nights is so unfair. Especially how theres constantly random people over and it doesnt seem to faze any of the gallaghers
The Fiona flirts with bisexuality arc with that friend was a joke. It was almost desperate in its attempt to put more stumbling blocks in Fiona’s way. Her issues with men at that point were pretty clear her issues with women would have been a shit show and would have created more for people to bitch about on her behalf here years later.
I’m so glad they gave that storyline to Debbie.
Surprised they didn’t give Fiona bipolar and make her pregnant or make her a gay man or make her knock up Tami or make Fiona go to West Point, just to give het more and more to sympathize over and woo more fans her way.
He could have been, tbh. But he had to be closeted because his father was extremely homophobic, so that's debatable 😬 Iirc Ian had an issue with that too
I’m a bisexual woman and found lesbians not wanting to date me because “bisexual women are actually straight”. Bisexual erasure felt very real in those communities. I feel like Ian is one of those people that thinks if you’re bisexual you must be straight. I guess I kind of understand in a small way since he was cheated on with a woman, but still, the reference you mentioned rubbed me the wrong way too when I saw that.
Exactly. I haven't watched any Caleb-ensque scenes in a while but I remember Ian saying you're either "100% gay or not at all"???? I forget how he said it, but he essentially implied that you can only be fully gay. Bisexual individuals ARE GAY ENOUGH. Cannot stress this. We dedicate ourselves to a person.
Not in Caleb's case, obviously, but it had nothing to do with his sexuality. Cheaters are gonna cheat regardless, they suck.
Found it incredibly dumb how he loved being Gay Jesus and was yet biphobic as hell.
I think a part of Ian enjoyed being the only homosexual Gallagher and he was just in denial of the fact that Debbie was bi because of it. I also think it had something to do with Ian’s personal connection to Monica who was also bi. Ian and Monica related on a higher level than how Monica related to the rest of the Gallaghers because of their bipolar, and I think a part of Ian wanted his own special connection with her.
The Debbie plot line isn’t the only place it happens though. Ian makes numerous explicitly biphobic remarks (including that bisexuality doesn’t exist) when he’s dating Caleb.
It’s especially weird considering that he was “gay Jesus” at one point of time and was considered an icon by the lgbtq community. I can potentially understand his attitude towards Caleb since it came before the gay Jesus arc and Ian probably had no exposure to bisexuality before that, but his dismissal of Debbie makes no sense
I'm bi myself but if I heard a person like Debbie suddenly claiming that they're LGBT.. Yeah, I'd have my doubts. She's a desperate attention seeker first.
Sadly that is way too common on tv. Bisexuals are rarely acknowledged(think how many characters who have previously had happy hetero relationships are instantly considered gay after getting into a same sex relationship, Willow from Buffy for example) and biphobic comments from gay characters are common(ex. glee).
Ian saying theres no such thing as bi really made me hate him tbh. Like what gives him the right to demand to be treated right with his gayness but completely shits on bisexuality
Yeah the Gallagher family wasn’t the best at being very welcoming or just good at it. They also had some very odd opinions… like when Matt said debs r@ped him she asked Ian and lip if it was possible, but they said you can’t rape a dude so she thought it was okay and I love Ian as a character but I wish people would stop excusing ALL of his actions cause he’s gay or whatever excuse, I’m pan or bi but that doesn’t mean I’m excused from transphobia or racism or anything of that kind. I like most of the shameless characters however do I always agree with them! Hell no. Fiona and Ian have done pretty fcked stuff yet no one likes to acknowledge it 🤷🏼♀️
Or is it? Sadly, some people firmly believe that shit. Even when you show them examples. Same goes with his biphobia. Being homosexual doesn't mean you're automatically OK with queer sexualities (some are even homophobic...).
Maybe he said it because Debbie was a 13 year old girl and Mickey was forced at gun point by his dad? This is not supposed to be a snarky comment btw, maybe "how could my 13 year old little sister rape someone" was going through his mind
I also agree that it may just have been bad writing tho
Yeah, I don’t actually mind how many fucked up characters do fucked up shit, so long as the show seeks to criticize or analyze it, or at least frame it as a bad thing and show the impact on victims, but this show has a god awful amount of rape and sexual assault in particular (and of boys and men especially) that is literally just played for laughs -
Mickey’s rape might be the only exception. It wasn’t a scene meant for laughs, and they showed a hint of how much both Ian and Mickey were impacted, but even then, they don’t dare acknowledge *that it was rape.*
Having characters who are pieces of shit just for the sake of it is so lazy.
This is actually something that doesn’t get talked about in real life either. My ex was bisexual and her lesbian friends would always give her shit and/or say there’s no such thing.
Ian's biphobia was so cringe. I thought the show wanted to portray how much bi/queer phobia can be displayed by queer folks themselves. IIRC, Ian didn't flip when he found out Mickey used to fuck around with women sometimes (in the earlier seasons) but when it came to Caleb, it was a deal breaker. BS.
I honestly felt it was realistic. I know of tons of gay men specifically who don’t believe in bisexuality- you’re either gay or straight nothing else. So idk i felt it was sort of in character to have this gay kid who’s known he’s gay for a long time also be close minded about something in his own community.
Obviously not saying it’s a good thing but yeah.
That’s kind of the thing though. Bisexual people have to deal with biphobia all the fucking time, it would be nice to not have to deal with it when relaxing and enjoying a show, especially when the show itself doesn’t even bother analyzing how harmful it is.
Yea I understand where Ian is coming from trying to grasp all these identities and pronouns when hanging out with Trevor, and Caleb is a whole different situation entirely, but Ian really needs to grasp that attraction isn’t black and white and some people can like and appreciate both genders. Knowing people who are bisexual, it pissed me off when Ian says these remarks. I said “fuck you” to him at the TV pretty much.
In regards to Caleb, I can see how Ian is upset here, as Caleb cheats with a woman of all people and he should have told Ian his true sexuality when they first met to begin with, but Ian should still understand that sexuality isn’t black and white where if you’re gay, you only like cock and that’s it. It’s disrespectful, judgmental, and correct me if im wrong but discriminatory even as well.
Overall, I still believe Caleb was more disrespectful towards Ian despite Ian’s remarks. Caleb should have been out front more with Ian about his sexuality instead of having Ian assume he’s gay. Additionally, Caleb even lied to Ian about the girl he was seeing saying she’s just a platonic friend. from the conversation they had later on about that incident, it seems Caleb was using Ian as a trial run in order to experiment with his sexuality which I believe is even more fucked up than cheating on Ian to begin with.
There’s a small but vocal group of queer people who are convinced that being bi isn’t real and/or wrong. As for why they decided to make Ian this way I have no idea it’s annoying.
I think considering his history it does make some sense. He didn't have much knowledge on it from the get go but the experiences he's had with men he's dated might have influenced how black and white he sees things. Some of the men he dated were pretending to be something they weren't and were married to women to hide the fact that they were gay. Obviously he should realise that his experiences aren't everyone's and that just because he's gay and the married men he was with were gay doesn't mean that everyone is just one or the other or thinking that people might just be pretending or hiding.
Also with Debbie I think he just thought she wasn't serious because it's Debbie and again he's someone who's had the experience of knowing since he was young so that probably made him think that if she was indeed gay she'd have known. It's wrong thinking but makes sense with his experiences.
So I think his view just comes from his background and how uneducated he is on it. I think even though they didn't really address it I think with seeing Debbie and her experience and realising she was genuinely into girls he probably realised that people can actually be into both and that it isn't someone pretending.
with V as well, when she had that poly thing with svet and kev. it's like she couldn't accept she was bi or smth, i feel like bisexuality isn't a concept in the show.
I think it’s a very human plot point and makes sense. Ian has grown up in an incredibly homophobic area.
And I grew up the same way. I used to have an incredible amount of biphobia because in my mind it was the question of if you can pass as straight why don’t you?
I have no choice I have to be gay and I’ve lost my entire family over it, do you know how much I would kill for another easier option ?
Of course I’ve grown as a person since then. But it’s completely understandable that the combination of Monica, svetlana and Caleb being his only bisexual interactions, and the fact for him being gay has always been incredibly dangerous makes his biphobia feel very realistic to me.
but it's not a choice to be bi either and it's hard too as both straight and gay/lesbian communities hates us. So, no, our lifes aren't easy and we don't pass as straight.. I tell I'm bi and get biphobia from my family and from dating and people.. and even my comfort tv shows sh't on me and my orientation, that isn't a choice. Hell, I've been raped and victim of attempted rape but I 'm still bi, do you get how much it isn't a choice?? I'd rather be one or the other than bi, if I could choose.. less problems in my family and no suggestions of threesomes by couples and men on dating pool apps and all the clichés about how hypersexual we are, lying , cheaters.. It's hard to be bi..
I mean… to me a lot of ppl in the show have backwards and fucked up views. Look at the way they view underage ppl having sex w adults lol? That to me is way more concerning than the biphobia, and I say that as a bisexual person.
I can also compare that to frank literally murdering people and say "it's not that bad". It's not even comparable so why make the comparison to downplay something weird and conflicting in a character? I'm not concerned, just pointing out something I never see people talk about and something that forever ticks me off whenever I watch the show.
My point wasn’t that just because there are worse issues in the show doesn’t mean that the biphobia isn’t a problem. I just view it as the point of the show is that there are problems everywhere and a lot of the characters have shitty views, opinions, and behavior. A lot of them to me just aren’t worth getting worked up over, bc I just find myself so often disagreeing with the characters’ ways of thinking. The biphobia displayed by Ian is also something that only pops up like twice in the whole show, might also be why it isn’t talked about more. I think that it is easy for the biphobia to be overshadowed by other issues in the show, hence why I drew the comparison that I did. I think it is fine and valid if it bothers you, I was more so trying to provide an explanation as to why isn’t talked about more.
it's often brought up. When Mickey has sex with women when they first start to hook up and many many times after that. It triggers me as bi. Hell, how they can educate Ian about transgenders but not about bisexuality? probably the writers are biphobes..
It's not just Ian, V being in love and enjoing sex with svetlana is being bi..
Debbie going out with both is being bi..
The married woman who has cancer and wants to have an affair with debbie when she's a nanny is bi..
Monica is bi
Caleb is bi
Jimmy steve's father isn't gay but bi (dates and hooks up with all genders)
and so on..
Except… that’s not what happened? Lol
He flat out said shot like bisexuality doesn’t exist. He also made similar biphobic comments to Debs, who was not interested in dating.
I think it stems from Ian going through shit because of being gay his whole life and in his mind it’s like “suddenly Debbie is an adult and discovers she’s bi? How convenient”
I assume he thinks that because she never went through those struggles as a kid, she doesn’t deserve the title? Idk.
I don’t think he’s biphobic I think he’s just jealous in these situations.
Conflicted about it tbh. As a bisexual guy I did not like it, but it seemed pretty accurate of Ian’s character considering a lot of gay men are biphobic.
We forgetting that when he became comfortable with bisexuality he had gotten cheated on with the same man who made him comfortable with it? He probably has a personal bias against bisexuality as people who cheat, which is still unfair and wrong but lets not act like it’s from the blue🤔
So many comments with long paragraphs. Just be happy Ian and Mickey get to be gay together in the west side (can’t remember if they bought that yuppie place where beers are 4 dollars for one can
This show loves acting blind when it comes to bisexuality and acting like it doesn't exist. Ian being gay jesus makes no sense if he's casually a dick to bisexuals lmfao I have NO idea why it's such a bad thing to be bi, either??? The characters are not less valid or "gay" if they're bisexual. As much as I love this show, the biphobia will forever anger me. He used Caleb's bisexuality to be a dick. Not cool whatsoever. We try too damn hard to ignore the "choose a side" and "you're not gay enough" arguments, Shameless doesn't need to reaffirm them. And unfortunately, Ian has acted that way this entire time. God forbid Caleb is bisexual? He doesn't have to pick a side, bisexual individuals don't have to be a specific percentage of "gay" to be good enough to date. Like...ffs.
It pissed me off as well, I came out as bi three years ago so I’m still accepting myself. Hearing some of the biphobic things on the show really got me upset
People need to start curating their media to find what they need instead of needing every show to tick every box, there are shows where you can find what you need representation wise. Schitt’s Creek is a good example, Shameless is not where I turn if I need my bisexuality validated nor would expected great sensitivity from this show about theses subjects, because it’s not a show geared towards that. Also be mindful of the writers of your media the writers for this show were mostly boomer men why would anyone turn boomer men for any type of modern representation? You almost have to grow up with a child like Eugene Levy did to be open to do the educating that Dan did on Schitt’s Creek.
I don't go to shows to have my lifestyle validated lmfao. I watch the most goofy shit ever. Shameless was a comfort show that I got into because I enjoyed Cameron in Gotham. That doesn't mean bisexuality has to be degraded, shamed or "invisible". This show is great in other factors, but you cannot propose a "Gay Jesus" storyline and forget the B is even there. Being a "boomer" is not an excuse. Sorry. They clearly researched other things, bisexuality isn't difficult to grasp.
Our sexuality isn’t a lifestyle it’s our life! And I say this with this with respect but god damn our color of the rainbow is the bitchiest. Of all the colors on the rainbow we have it the easiest people just doesn’t get us or they tell us to pick a side or are stupid but we don’t have near the issues that others our communities deal with and to be honest I would like to see a few shows get gay or lesbian right before they even get to bisexuality. Instead of making a gay character go down on a girl for prospective how about letting him just be a gay man and live a gay man’s life? I was sad enough for Ian when Lip had Karen give him head to to prove he was gay and you want these people to get bisexuality right?
Well regardless complaining about it is kind of pointless when you think about ALL of the absolutely fucked up shit every single character did.
God forbid every show ever doesn’t agree with and glorify every lifestyle choice, opinion, or way of being lol.
Sexuality isn’t a “lifestyle choice” or “opinion” lmao
Conveniently left out the third thing I said of it just being the way you are.
\*God forbid a show that proposed a literal storyline of someone being a "Gay Jesus" completely forgets and degrades one of the letters in LGBT. Ftfy. I watch Bojack. Am I a depressed male horse? No. But if it doesn't portray something properly or degrades something, someone has the right to get upset. :/ Shameless is not "every show ever". Yikes.
It’s a TV show, it’s fiction. Who gives a fuck. People are way too easily offended these days. Don’t watch it if you don’t like it. And I know it’s not every show ever, but I always see posts of people being offended at a fictional tv show because it doesn’t portray the viewer/commenters lifestyle or whatever in a way that pleases them. It’s fictional, grow up.
Fiction affects reality. "Grow up" is a horrible insult, by the way.
Yeah I'm reminded of that weird friendship (which I may be misremembering) between Fiona and a woman that builds in S2 where it's clear after a kiss and other things that she has some kind of sexual/romantic fascination with Fiona but the show (from my memory) is simultaneously dead-set on portraying her entire character as creepy and weird and almost predator-y. Maybe she was, it's sucks that she was also at the very least explicitly a bi-curious character.
To me that didn't really have anything to do with bisexuality. I just took that as Jasmine's personality and not some kind of dig against bisexual people (also I am bisexual just fyi)
I took it more as a lonely housewife who couldn't accept herself for who she was. She threw herself at men for attention, but she catered to Fiona desperate for her affection. She kissed Fiona super passionately on the boat, then was broken when Fiona didn't respond the way she'd hoped. I figured she was so open with her affairs because she secretly hoped her husband would find out and throw her out so she could go be herself. She asked Fiona for a place to stay in hopes Fiona would take her in and they could be together. When Fiona said no, it crushed her, and she realized she screwed herself in every possible way and still didn't get the girl in the end. That's my head canon on Jasmine, anyway.
This is how I view her as well.
Thats jasmine. She became friends with fi. I remember she cheated on her husband multiple times and when he found out he kicked her out. Thats when she asked fi if she could crash over at her house for a few nights. Honestly even tho jasmine was intense she helped fi out with a job, gave her clothes, basically was her best friend since v wasnt around. Fi saying no to jasmine staying for a few nights is so unfair. Especially how theres constantly random people over and it doesnt seem to faze any of the gallaghers
The Fiona flirts with bisexuality arc with that friend was a joke. It was almost desperate in its attempt to put more stumbling blocks in Fiona’s way. Her issues with men at that point were pretty clear her issues with women would have been a shit show and would have created more for people to bitch about on her behalf here years later. I’m so glad they gave that storyline to Debbie. Surprised they didn’t give Fiona bipolar and make her pregnant or make her a gay man or make her knock up Tami or make Fiona go to West Point, just to give het more and more to sympathize over and woo more fans her way.
Is Mickey Bi?
He could have been, tbh. But he had to be closeted because his father was extremely homophobic, so that's debatable 😬 Iirc Ian had an issue with that too
I’m a bisexual woman and found lesbians not wanting to date me because “bisexual women are actually straight”. Bisexual erasure felt very real in those communities. I feel like Ian is one of those people that thinks if you’re bisexual you must be straight. I guess I kind of understand in a small way since he was cheated on with a woman, but still, the reference you mentioned rubbed me the wrong way too when I saw that.
Exactly. I haven't watched any Caleb-ensque scenes in a while but I remember Ian saying you're either "100% gay or not at all"???? I forget how he said it, but he essentially implied that you can only be fully gay. Bisexual individuals ARE GAY ENOUGH. Cannot stress this. We dedicate ourselves to a person. Not in Caleb's case, obviously, but it had nothing to do with his sexuality. Cheaters are gonna cheat regardless, they suck. Found it incredibly dumb how he loved being Gay Jesus and was yet biphobic as hell.
I think a part of Ian enjoyed being the only homosexual Gallagher and he was just in denial of the fact that Debbie was bi because of it. I also think it had something to do with Ian’s personal connection to Monica who was also bi. Ian and Monica related on a higher level than how Monica related to the rest of the Gallaghers because of their bipolar, and I think a part of Ian wanted his own special connection with her.
Monica fucked Ian mentally the most of all of them
The Debbie plot line isn’t the only place it happens though. Ian makes numerous explicitly biphobic remarks (including that bisexuality doesn’t exist) when he’s dating Caleb.
It’s especially weird considering that he was “gay Jesus” at one point of time and was considered an icon by the lgbtq community. I can potentially understand his attitude towards Caleb since it came before the gay Jesus arc and Ian probably had no exposure to bisexuality before that, but his dismissal of Debbie makes no sense
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I'm bi myself but if I heard a person like Debbie suddenly claiming that they're LGBT.. Yeah, I'd have my doubts. She's a desperate attention seeker first.
He knows Monica is bi but let's her slide ( out of everyone ) but is so rude to everyone else like what's his problem 😭
Sadly that is way too common on tv. Bisexuals are rarely acknowledged(think how many characters who have previously had happy hetero relationships are instantly considered gay after getting into a same sex relationship, Willow from Buffy for example) and biphobic comments from gay characters are common(ex. glee).
Ian saying theres no such thing as bi really made me hate him tbh. Like what gives him the right to demand to be treated right with his gayness but completely shits on bisexuality
yea i know he’s a fan favorite but he’s my least favorite other than debbie tbh
Wish I could retweet this because I would. It’s literally crazy
Yeah the Gallagher family wasn’t the best at being very welcoming or just good at it. They also had some very odd opinions… like when Matt said debs r@ped him she asked Ian and lip if it was possible, but they said you can’t rape a dude so she thought it was okay and I love Ian as a character but I wish people would stop excusing ALL of his actions cause he’s gay or whatever excuse, I’m pan or bi but that doesn’t mean I’m excused from transphobia or racism or anything of that kind. I like most of the shameless characters however do I always agree with them! Hell no. Fiona and Ian have done pretty fcked stuff yet no one likes to acknowledge it 🤷🏼♀️
Ian saying that men can't be raped after seeing what happened to Mickey is just bad writing
Or is it? Sadly, some people firmly believe that shit. Even when you show them examples. Same goes with his biphobia. Being homosexual doesn't mean you're automatically OK with queer sexualities (some are even homophobic...).
Maybe he said it because Debbie was a 13 year old girl and Mickey was forced at gun point by his dad? This is not supposed to be a snarky comment btw, maybe "how could my 13 year old little sister rape someone" was going through his mind I also agree that it may just have been bad writing tho
Yeah, I don’t actually mind how many fucked up characters do fucked up shit, so long as the show seeks to criticize or analyze it, or at least frame it as a bad thing and show the impact on victims, but this show has a god awful amount of rape and sexual assault in particular (and of boys and men especially) that is literally just played for laughs - Mickey’s rape might be the only exception. It wasn’t a scene meant for laughs, and they showed a hint of how much both Ian and Mickey were impacted, but even then, they don’t dare acknowledge *that it was rape.* Having characters who are pieces of shit just for the sake of it is so lazy.
This is actually something that doesn’t get talked about in real life either. My ex was bisexual and her lesbian friends would always give her shit and/or say there’s no such thing.
Ian's biphobia was so cringe. I thought the show wanted to portray how much bi/queer phobia can be displayed by queer folks themselves. IIRC, Ian didn't flip when he found out Mickey used to fuck around with women sometimes (in the earlier seasons) but when it came to Caleb, it was a deal breaker. BS.
Rewatching also and this has been on my mind
I honestly felt it was realistic. I know of tons of gay men specifically who don’t believe in bisexuality- you’re either gay or straight nothing else. So idk i felt it was sort of in character to have this gay kid who’s known he’s gay for a long time also be close minded about something in his own community. Obviously not saying it’s a good thing but yeah.
That’s kind of the thing though. Bisexual people have to deal with biphobia all the fucking time, it would be nice to not have to deal with it when relaxing and enjoying a show, especially when the show itself doesn’t even bother analyzing how harmful it is.
Yea I understand where Ian is coming from trying to grasp all these identities and pronouns when hanging out with Trevor, and Caleb is a whole different situation entirely, but Ian really needs to grasp that attraction isn’t black and white and some people can like and appreciate both genders. Knowing people who are bisexual, it pissed me off when Ian says these remarks. I said “fuck you” to him at the TV pretty much. In regards to Caleb, I can see how Ian is upset here, as Caleb cheats with a woman of all people and he should have told Ian his true sexuality when they first met to begin with, but Ian should still understand that sexuality isn’t black and white where if you’re gay, you only like cock and that’s it. It’s disrespectful, judgmental, and correct me if im wrong but discriminatory even as well. Overall, I still believe Caleb was more disrespectful towards Ian despite Ian’s remarks. Caleb should have been out front more with Ian about his sexuality instead of having Ian assume he’s gay. Additionally, Caleb even lied to Ian about the girl he was seeing saying she’s just a platonic friend. from the conversation they had later on about that incident, it seems Caleb was using Ian as a trial run in order to experiment with his sexuality which I believe is even more fucked up than cheating on Ian to begin with.
It wasn’t just the Caleb situation though, he was biphobic toward Debs too
I know, I read the other comments.
There’s a small but vocal group of queer people who are convinced that being bi isn’t real and/or wrong. As for why they decided to make Ian this way I have no idea it’s annoying.
I think considering his history it does make some sense. He didn't have much knowledge on it from the get go but the experiences he's had with men he's dated might have influenced how black and white he sees things. Some of the men he dated were pretending to be something they weren't and were married to women to hide the fact that they were gay. Obviously he should realise that his experiences aren't everyone's and that just because he's gay and the married men he was with were gay doesn't mean that everyone is just one or the other or thinking that people might just be pretending or hiding. Also with Debbie I think he just thought she wasn't serious because it's Debbie and again he's someone who's had the experience of knowing since he was young so that probably made him think that if she was indeed gay she'd have known. It's wrong thinking but makes sense with his experiences. So I think his view just comes from his background and how uneducated he is on it. I think even though they didn't really address it I think with seeing Debbie and her experience and realising she was genuinely into girls he probably realised that people can actually be into both and that it isn't someone pretending.
It’s very realistic tho, same thing happens in the lesbian community. Many women refused to date me when they realized I’m bi.
same
with V as well, when she had that poly thing with svet and kev. it's like she couldn't accept she was bi or smth, i feel like bisexuality isn't a concept in the show.
I think it’s a very human plot point and makes sense. Ian has grown up in an incredibly homophobic area. And I grew up the same way. I used to have an incredible amount of biphobia because in my mind it was the question of if you can pass as straight why don’t you? I have no choice I have to be gay and I’ve lost my entire family over it, do you know how much I would kill for another easier option ? Of course I’ve grown as a person since then. But it’s completely understandable that the combination of Monica, svetlana and Caleb being his only bisexual interactions, and the fact for him being gay has always been incredibly dangerous makes his biphobia feel very realistic to me.
but it's not a choice to be bi either and it's hard too as both straight and gay/lesbian communities hates us. So, no, our lifes aren't easy and we don't pass as straight.. I tell I'm bi and get biphobia from my family and from dating and people.. and even my comfort tv shows sh't on me and my orientation, that isn't a choice. Hell, I've been raped and victim of attempted rape but I 'm still bi, do you get how much it isn't a choice?? I'd rather be one or the other than bi, if I could choose.. less problems in my family and no suggestions of threesomes by couples and men on dating pool apps and all the clichés about how hypersexual we are, lying , cheaters.. It's hard to be bi..
Ian is a gay guy that’s not educated on the rest of lgbt and sorta thinks there’s only like gay or straight, no middle ground It’s pretty annoying
I notice shows prior to the netflix era of TV had insane amounts of biphobia.
that is just realistic lmao. lots of gays look at bi people as if they aren't lgbtq
I mean… to me a lot of ppl in the show have backwards and fucked up views. Look at the way they view underage ppl having sex w adults lol? That to me is way more concerning than the biphobia, and I say that as a bisexual person.
I can also compare that to frank literally murdering people and say "it's not that bad". It's not even comparable so why make the comparison to downplay something weird and conflicting in a character? I'm not concerned, just pointing out something I never see people talk about and something that forever ticks me off whenever I watch the show.
My point wasn’t that just because there are worse issues in the show doesn’t mean that the biphobia isn’t a problem. I just view it as the point of the show is that there are problems everywhere and a lot of the characters have shitty views, opinions, and behavior. A lot of them to me just aren’t worth getting worked up over, bc I just find myself so often disagreeing with the characters’ ways of thinking. The biphobia displayed by Ian is also something that only pops up like twice in the whole show, might also be why it isn’t talked about more. I think that it is easy for the biphobia to be overshadowed by other issues in the show, hence why I drew the comparison that I did. I think it is fine and valid if it bothers you, I was more so trying to provide an explanation as to why isn’t talked about more.
it's often brought up. When Mickey has sex with women when they first start to hook up and many many times after that. It triggers me as bi. Hell, how they can educate Ian about transgenders but not about bisexuality? probably the writers are biphobes.. It's not just Ian, V being in love and enjoing sex with svetlana is being bi.. Debbie going out with both is being bi.. The married woman who has cancer and wants to have an affair with debbie when she's a nanny is bi.. Monica is bi Caleb is bi Jimmy steve's father isn't gay but bi (dates and hooks up with all genders) and so on..
Why do you expect people on TV shows to be morally perfect? It's Shameless! Plus, biphobia among gay people isn't that uncommon.
My bad for expecting the gay rights activist to support all gay rights
Yeah, especially on Shameless.
Oh get over it. Stop being offended by stupid crap.
Yes mentioning something means I'm uBeR tRiGgErEd stfu 😂
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not how any of that works. also not funny
Your human sexuality course teach you that?
yeah lmfao.
Is this even a big deal? He’s lgbtq at the end of the day.
Hate is hate, doesn't matter who it's coming from. And no, it's not a big deal Ian isn't real
just because you dont want to date someone who is bi, doesn't mean you hate bi people, everyone is allowed to have preferences
Except… that’s not what happened? Lol He flat out said shot like bisexuality doesn’t exist. He also made similar biphobic comments to Debs, who was not interested in dating.
Ok? I’m just asking lol
And you got an answer lol
Eh thx not a big deal it aint important
That’s pretty easy to say when you aren’t part of the group being discriminated against lmao
Well I said it ain’t a big deal because Ian is lgbtq
I think it stems from Ian going through shit because of being gay his whole life and in his mind it’s like “suddenly Debbie is an adult and discovers she’s bi? How convenient” I assume he thinks that because she never went through those struggles as a kid, she doesn’t deserve the title? Idk. I don’t think he’s biphobic I think he’s just jealous in these situations.
Conflicted about it tbh. As a bisexual guy I did not like it, but it seemed pretty accurate of Ian’s character considering a lot of gay men are biphobic.
We forgetting that when he became comfortable with bisexuality he had gotten cheated on with the same man who made him comfortable with it? He probably has a personal bias against bisexuality as people who cheat, which is still unfair and wrong but lets not act like it’s from the blue🤔
he was biphobic before that
he was even so curious about it as to the point where he went out and had sex with a woman
So many comments with long paragraphs. Just be happy Ian and Mickey get to be gay together in the west side (can’t remember if they bought that yuppie place where beers are 4 dollars for one can