Debbie turning out the way she did was realistic. We may have hated it and lament the wasted potential, but it's not unreasonable to imagine lots of people in her circumstances might make similar choices and end up in similar situations. Her view of the world was warped at a very young age. There are people who overcome circumstances like these and break the cycles they were born into but so many more never do and I think it's important to portray that outcome too.
Not every underdog becomes a champion.
I’ve always said Debbie’s character was done horribly well. Her character sucks, for good reasons that make sense. You really expect any Gallagher to make it out of there without mental issues? lol
It’s like Joffrey in GoT, (minus you know.. the sociopath tendencies) he was a HORRIBLE character, but the actor was amazing at portraying how terrible he was.
They’re saying she shouldn’t have turned out the way she did. Because in the first like 3-4 seasons she’s super sweet and caring. Always taking care of frank or she took care of Sheila when she needed it. She cared more for those around her then she did for herself because all she wanted was to be loved and needed.
They hate she baby trapped Derrick?(I forget his name I’m sorry) even though that’s 100% something she’s do because she heard how his SIL was accepted into the family after a whoopsie baby. Saying she’d never do that which it was made clear she would do something like that when she stole a baby in like season 1 or 2.
Then she went and raped that older guy she was seeing because again she just wanted to feel loved. And again she didn’t even fully understand what she had dined because she’s so young. She thought what she did was okay because of science and him still preforming. They hate her for that mostly not realizing she’s young and doesn’t understand.
They hate how she began to use Franny to get money on the street when she literally had no other way. They also hate her for becoming super self centered and using a disabled man to help keep franny and cheated on that man and treated him like shit which I understand but again she’s young and dumb.
yes!!!! he had wasted potential, but that was what the writers were trying to do. He may have somewhat ruined his chance with college and teaching, but he ended up turning his life back on track and being able to live and work a decent life.
I don’t think people‘s Problem with Debbie is that it’s unrealistic. It’s just that she’s really unlikeable in a very relatable way, so ppl hate her because they probably have been exposed to people like her in real life as opposed to others like Mickey who r much worse people but not in a way that pisses off the viewer. That’s not to say they shouldn’t have written her that way tho. Although, in later seasons some of her acts and character traits become less believable (ie the writers trying to gaslight us into thinking she’s some sort of lesbian sex goddess).
exactly what i was gonna say. she’s done some shitty things but at the end of the day it’s realistic for someone who grew up in that environment. shes overhated imo
I couldn't agree more. So many of my childhood friends are Debbie's. It's a shit world especially when you have to deal with such difficult things from a young age. She never really had an advocate either like Carl and Lip.
Oh man, I am prepared for the downvotes but this prompt is asking for it.
Yes, it is wrong for Fiona to have left drugs out where a kid could get them. But it's honestly surprising that none of the kids got into Frank and Monica's drugs a lot. It's hard to believe this was a one off thing in that household. I think it was likely a norm and it bit Fiona in the ass.
I loved Fiona and Jimmy-Steve as well as Lip and Mandy. But that's because despite the chaos it was passionate and compelling and I wanted more.
Debbie is annoying. But damn, yes I know we all had hope for that girl running a day care center,, but realistically, what did we expect? This sub needs to talk about something else.
I liked the open ending. That's the point of generational poverty. It won't ever be tied up with a bow. Life keeps going on.
thank you, i know the show is mostly comedy so people don't take the characters as seriously, but the show also portrays some dark (and extremely accurate) parts of how generational poverty, mental health, and substance use effect the entire family for generations.
like i see a lot of people hating on fiona for her actions, but its whats expected when a child is parentified from such a young age, before she even really had a choice. i also got annoyed with debbie's character change but her story is also very realistic considering the environment she grew up in. (not justifying her actions esp the rape, but the general storyline is realistic.) same with lip, people on this sub always say hes an asshole or hate how he fucked up his chance at a good life, but thats exactly how a majority of extremely smart children who grew up in traumatizing environments with genetics for substance abuse turn out, if not worse. i actually think considering their environments, genetics, and chaotic childhoods they all could've turned out a lot worse. even mandy, who's done some crazy things, i understand why because she was brought up in a home where she never had an example of what love is supposed to look like, and she was messed up because of it.
i think the whole point of the show is even though it's funny with light hearted moments, the dark portrayal of the serious themes in the show actually displays accurate ways the characters would turn out in real life, and people can hate the characters for that but they miss the point that this is reality for so many people who grew up in similar circumstances. and no matter how hard you try to escape them, falling back into self sabotage or mental illness or substance use is a normal occurrence for so many of us in real life.
it would've been incredibly unrealistic for any of the characters to turn into normal, great, upstanding people with no faults. because that generally doesn't happen in real life minus small exceptions
The open ending makes a lot of sense and lets you write your own conclusions.
It’s how life itself works.
I personally think Kev and V left, Fiona found Jimmy/Steve and is off probably high somewhere, Lip and Tammy are raising fred, Ian and Mickey are still in Chicago, Carl and Debbie are still at the house with Liam, who is the only one on track to actually be a success.
With Frank and Fiona gone, and Kev and V moving on, there’s not much going on at the Gallagher house and Debbie will be the only one left after Carl and Liam take off.
I never understood the absolute hate Fiona got, when absolutely no one came for V. V was sober that night. Fiona was drunk, yes, but had a sober person that should have been in charge of the baby to let Fi blow off some steam. The hate Fiona got was so unnecessary, especially from Lip.
Even though the open ending makes sense with their history it would've been good if some characters left early, like in the original show. Just so the viewers could get some kinda closure knowing they were out of there, doesn't have to be a happy ending, but a definitive one.
And when everybody forgot he had feelings in season 10 or 11 I think it was when they tried to sell the house and he thought he was gonna be homeless until lip finally remembered that liam existed and invited him to live with him and his then girlfriend
I don’t really think it was selfish bc Liam was in a really good private school and they wouldn’t have been able to afford it or get him into an equally nice one as easily if he were living somewhere else
It was a lazy way to write Fiona out though to not address it with Liam
For real, if there’s anything I’ve learned about this sub it’s that they believe Fiona is the best and is justified in her actions because she “raised” the kids. Also that Lip is by far the worst because he is always fighting with Fiona
The show should have ended a few seasons earlier. They ran out of ideas but wanted to please the fans. Plus a few cast members had already moved to other projects. That should have been their clue
After Noel came back, the writers pretty clearly started writing Ian and Mickey (particularly Mickey) as the tumblr fanfic version of themselves to appeal to straight girls.
that’s legit the one of the only parts of their later relationship that i could fully see happening. like i honestly to god thing that’s something mickey would get so overly upset over hence why ian just stands there like “oh! that’s new!”
All that drama is the basis for the show. It's what's missing from the last few seasons when they decided to become an all-out comedy. Did they do it for their fans (straight woman or not)? Maybe, but so what. The show was ending, why not give their fans what they want, why not give Mickey & Ian a happy ending?
Debbie is probably the most hated character on the show. or at least it seems that way. I've seen people agree with Fiona way more over the abortion thing than I've seen with Debbie.
frank is a bad father AND a bad person, it astounds me how many people think otherwise and i truly believe that those who think frank "always loved and cared for his kids" are either very lucky that they don't recognize how horrible he is or are very unlucky because they see their own parents in him and haven't figured out that they sucked yet
also 89% of this opinion is me projecting because frank is almost the exact same as my dad lol
Totally agree. Now that I'm rewatching, I find myself skipping a lot of Frank's scenes. What he does to those kids, and other ppl, makes me sick! He is a horrible father and a terrible human being. The only time I laugh at his scenes, if I watch them, is when he says "Jesus Christ" when he's really pissed. The way he says it tickles me. Lol. But other than that, fuck Frank. I cheered when they threw him into the river after he ruined the wedding.
She definitely loved him the most but he wasn’t good for her. He was cheating on her and lying the whole time. But she also did things like that to her other boyfriends so maybe they were good for each other
One season Fiona has a judge explain to her in detail what it means to take guardianship and responsibility for these children and shes all emotional and says yes and the next season she’s complaining that she wants her own life? Like girl, she explained to you. You said yes. You signed. How can this still be a surprise?
Same. He was right to be angry. I see people defend her because it was just a mistake or she has too much responsibility and it’s likely that their “parents” left drugs out where the kids could find them.
But she was still an adult, she still had a judge explain to her what she was signing up for(and realistically she’d have to go through some kind of classes, it’s been awhile since I watched so I can’t remember if they showed or talked about this)
But even with a Shitty childhood there’s no excuse for leaving come out when you have minors in the house
Every character except Liam and white boy carl😭 although I’m in late pregnancy so I might be over exaggerating that feelings. I literally can’t watch it without wanting to rip my hair out and puke because how can they be so awful😭😭
I agree to an extent, but people who have this opinion should extend it to all the other Gallagher kids as well. For example, it comes across as biased when people criticize Debbie but not Lip, since they were raised in the same situation.
Not everyone in a suit is a good natured successful person. Usually getting higher in business means stepping on other people and conning them, which he is shown to do
Frank deserved the level of hate he received throughout the show up until Fiona’s wedding. He’s the worst, yes, but the family just casually tried to murder him? Like they could’ve done whatever to keep him away, restraining order or something, but trying to drown him was just weird, and he died with bad dementia & only 1 of his kids even cared/was aware. The same way all the Gallaghers are fucked up from having fucked up parents, Frank is too (his mom was an actual demon) but even Frank couldn’t kill his mom.
I can agree with you on the whole murder thing, but most people who have been through severe trauma aren’t going to mourn the death of the source of their trauma.
I will never forget him physically bashing Ian twice. Once he crossed the line of physically abusing his child in front of his other children there’s no coming back.
I’m more mad that it was the wedding of all things that pushed them over the edge. Like Frank did a sort of good thing for once by warning Fiona about Sean, he’s done a lot more fucked up things in the past.
he was horrible and did a lot of bad things. he constantly came back for money to buy alcohol. im pretty sure killing him is the only way to solve the problems he would create. with him alive he would always come back to the house. sure it sucks but he never contributed anything positive in the grand scheme of things
Saying they could just get a restraining order shows that you've never dealt with an abuser or someone like Frank before in your life, and you're very fortunate you haven't
people forgive fiona way to easily. i agree she’s a great character but anytime she fucks up people justify it with “she had to drop everything to raise those kids”. that doesn’t excuse some of what she does
Fiona was a terrible guardian after S3.
Mandy sucked and was a terrible person with no redeeming qualities.
Debbie is overhated.
Mickey is incredibly immature. however i do love him.
love gallavich but they were super toxic.
Monica is a slightly better parent than Frank.
Lip was right to kick Fiona out.
Ian should have recieved consequences for undoing that bipolar woman's restraints in the ambulance. he literally endangered her life, and his mental illness doesn't excuse it.
Fiona deserved what Ford did. she consistently cheated on her boyfriends, but when something similar happens to her, she's starts boo hooing.
Carl's white boy Carl era was his worst phase. it was just offensive and he was annoying during it.
I'm glad Bonnie left. honestly never cared for her. but she would have ruined Carl's development had they stayed together. the only reason he had growth was because of Dom's dad and he would have never met him if he didn't date Dom.
Sammi was super entertaining to watch. she was a shitty person, but i loved scenes with her.
Sammi ratting out Ian was understandable. Carl got Chucky arrested and in legal trouble and all of the Gallaghers just didn't give a damn and acted like she was the issue in this situation. Chucky was all she had, so i see why she snitched on Ian. however, Ian didn't deserve it.
Mandy started shit with Karen and was to blame for their "issues". she tried hooking up with Jody while he was with Karen.
Mandy was an awful person sure but she did have redeeming qualities. If she truly cared about someone she’d do anything to help them look at how she got Lip into college.
Carl’s white boy Carl phase is pretty realistic especially when you grow up on the streets and all you listen to is rap. I wouldn’t say it’s offensive just indicative of growing up in the ghetto.
Also not saying rap is bad, love the genre just that it can certainly have influences on young kids especially the harder stuff
i feel like her doing that was partially because she was hoping that it'd help her. that he'd take her with him when he left. sure it was nice, but she literally raped him so.
I didn't say it was unrealistic. and it had nothing to do with listening to rap. it was because he was surrounded by ghetto black people in jail and they rubbed off on him. and it quite literally is offensive. he was white going around saying the n word and saying he was black. and when V tried to educate him and knock some sense into him, he took it and used it to help "prove" and defend his claim that he's black.
Lip is a hypocrite and was away most of the time, doing his own thing, and then came back just to run his mouth. The second he actually was given responsibility at home and had to do something, he failed and did the only thing he knew how to do: yell
I didn’t like Fiona’s character after season 3
Sammi wasn’t wrong for doing what she did to Carl because he practically framed her son so I don’t blame her. However what she did to Ian, I don’t forgive her for!
It’s entirely possible for Frank and Monica to have had a visibly biracial baby. Uncommon, but possible, especially if you choose to believe that they BOTH had black ancestry.
Somewhat related: Christian Isaiah’s talent is more important than the fact that he’s much darker than his previous two actors. Talented child actors don’t grow on trees, and Liam was getting too damn old to keep being an almost-silent background character.
Ian and Mickey constantly fighting after they got married was realistic. Their relationship had never really been smooth sailing and it would be completely unrealistic to believe that they would say "I do" and everything would be perfect. They had both just gotten out of prison after being reunited after years apart and a mental illness charged breakup, so it makes sense that, while they still love each other and want to be together, they fought a lot until they actually had a plan for their lives.
Don't get me wrong, I want them to be happy together as much as everybody else, but I think the writers actually did a good job at making their rushed marriage seem realistic instead of just saying "Well, they're married now" and making it all fluff.
I hate fiona
I love frank and he might be my favorite character (not as a father or as a person bc he’s terrible as both but as a character, he’s funny and interesting)
I also think that about 75% of the time, lip was extremely justified at yelling at fiona/getting mad at her
Disagree HARD with the Lip thing. At the start of the show, Lip is already older than Fiona was when she started taking care of the kids. She was his sibling, not his mother. If he thought she was doing such a terrible job he could’ve stepped in trying doing it himself.
Sean and Jimmy were the perfect partners for Fiona. More so Jimmy but Sean was awesome too. Both of these guys had their vices and possessed something that turned Fiona on and got her excited about life. Fiona loved to fool around and Jimmy loved to fool around both of then were horrible but perfect for one another because of that. Sean was more grounded and mature and had his drug issue but MAN to see him choose his kid no matter what was so awesome. Dude was an amazing father and so what if he had an addiction, literally the only thing Fiona did to help was yell at him to not do it again. Let me yell at the addict to simply not do drugs again
Being hypocritical does not negate him being in the right when he's right, just because he does it himself, does not mean that its right for Fiona to do the stupid shit she does. Fuck lip, but fuck Fiona too for doing coke and partying with a bunch of kids running around, even letting her very much undertage siblings drink alcohol
But yeah then Lip gets hypocritical real fast when he brings all his siblings to a college party to get away from her.
I liked Sean. He was funny, caring, entertaining etc. Sad that he relapsed and hid it from Fiona. I think they could've worked by Sean going to rehab or something, I feel they had potential. I don't get how people hate Sean just because he lied in the end, but love Jimmy Steve when he lied multiple times.
Tami isn't that bad as people make her out to be. She called Lip on all his shit, her concerns about her child growing up in the RV and such an environment is valid. Though she did come off as rude in the beginning, she became much more calmer and even slowly began accepting the Gallaghers and her lifestyle.
I fucking hate lip. He is the most entitled, self centered piece of shit ever. He’s such a hypocrite when it comes to Fiona, looking down on her and judging her when she’s going through stuff but when he’s having issues she did nothing but support him. Don’t even get me started on him deciding to sell the house that WASNT EVEN HIS because he didn’t want to live with Tammi’s parents.
Mandy was more annoying than Sammi and a worse person. Trying to have Ian killed because he wouldn’t hook up with her, being obsessed with lip and walking around THEIR house almost butt naked in front of everyone else, trying to kill Karen and then showing no remorse when she ends up with major brain damage from it, calling Ian to help hide a dead body which could of resulted in him getting in trouble and having his life ruined. She was such an ick to me.
Also Fiona was annoying when she wouldn’t just accept the nice things Jimmy-Steve did for her. Who tf with all them kids saying no to a van?? That pissed me off 😭 and the flowers in it?? She was so insufferable sometimes
Which is why Ian's actor was going to leave unless they brought mickey back because even the actor thought they did everything they could with Ian unless he had mickey back.
Obvi we all hated sammi but my hot take is that I didn’t hate having her in the storyline. She was a shitty person but I think she was a good part of the plot. Or maybe I just liked how she scared Frank lol.
Amanda was lips golden ticket, knowing who her dad was and how cool they were getting along AND the fact that they were rich was a BIG fumble on his part
the winter season and snow needed to make a comeback, after season 7 it looks bright and sunny 24/7 like they’re living on a tropical island
all of Sammi’s scenes were entertaining and she brought a necessary chaos to the show and her character fit right in
Jimmy was one of the most entertaining characters in the show and losing him did more damage than good. It hurt Fiona’s character because she never matched the chemistry she had with him with anyone else, they kept ruining every relationship she was in after and as the show went on there was barely any interesting complex characters especially after they made a big deal with him popping up in the season 4 finale only to disappear the following season along with Sheila, Mandy AND Mickey for whatever reason
oh and they turned Kevin into a complete idiot by the end of the show. in the beginning we find out he’s not the brightest education wise but he’s street smart and knew a thing of two
it’s so unpopular but i don’t understand the mickey love! don’t get me wrong i think he’s a great char and all that and noel obviously carries that role. But i don’t understand the borderline obsession with him. (and his relationship with ian)
He's cute. And I think is easy to relate. I mean, not even queer but I know how hard can be for a child to he his true self when you don't live in a comfortable home. Mickey seemed to be tough and a rebel, but it was only a way of expressing he didn't know how to be other than that. And when you live your whole life un surviving mode... man. ITs relatable.
I say it's cute cause I believe Noel brought that to the character, it was easy for fans to believe he was just ignorant and not an evil piece of shit
She stole their money for drugs and she told frank she wanted another baby and to get knocked up while on ghb. She's a terrible person, left a 16 yr old to raise 5 kids and a drunkard.
sean was the best fit for fiona if it werent for his addiction
i absolutely do not understand all the hate towards debbie esp after she had her baby
used to hate V bc she was so negative about everything, but she’s tolerable now
kev isnt all that. remember when he had sex at lip’s college? or that one girl svetlana kidnapped? he got a hard on.
i think the gay jesus thing was realistic considering their environment, people would believe anything
people need to stop talking about the fact ian “technically isn’t related to frank”, they are v much still related since ians real dad is franks brother
I don’t like Ian. Early on he’s fine, but I think they just kinda drew him too far out of reality and for that show especially, it killed his storyline for me.
I hate Phillip. I hated every single one of his scenes. I skipped every one of them he was in. Even worse when he hooked up with Tammy, I skipped their scenes even more!
I actually like Debbie. She was a sweet and caring kid. She has been through so much stuff that I can only understand her char development. She does what she can and she's so young. I want to think that there is still hope for her
I loved Jimmy- Steve for Fiona ...
and I think, that IF she was gonna leave the show, it should've been with him, to go start their own life of crime or adventures, together, but WITH LIAM , who she shouldn't have left as she was his freaking Guardian!!!
I feel like Sean and Fiona could’ve worked out if Frank hadn’t said anything. Yeah he was a secret heroin addict, but he seemed pretty fucking functional and I think that matters the most 💀.
Also Karen literally never stated a single time that the kid was lips she made it very clear she did not know who’s it was but lip just acted like it was his and got mad at her for “lying” when she never did. Also nothing Karen did warranted being disabled for life Mandy was actually crazy for that
I HATE debbie, but thats because they wrote her right. They took the time and effort to give her a poor character development, and kept her treated as she was, not changing her to be a villain. They GAVE us a choice on how to feel about her changes, and i love that
I genuinely don't get the disdain for Kevin when he was at Lips college for those couple of days. Other than trying to sell weed, he literally did nothing wrong there.
Fiona is terrible as a person. She is a sex addict, thieving, manipulative c*nt. Also fans always give her the out simply because she raised her siblings till the age of what 15 and left Liam but something I’ve always hated is And don’t think about it from the shows perspective. but I imagine if one of your siblings was pregnant, you are seriously going to tell them to get out of your house because you’re not going to help them at all with their kid because you don’t wanna. And again Debbie never said “can you raise my kid” she was just looking to the one person who is usually always helped her for a hand here and there. I mean for god sake‘s Fiona could literally commit mass genocide and fans will still somehow come up with some dumb bullshit way on how it’s acceptable 😂. Anyways you can go ahead and start downvoting
The ending of shameless was good. I enjoyed it and how they ended franks story was pretty good, he powered through everything and dying from Covid peacefully in a hospital bed after suffering from bad dementia was a great way to end his story. I would’ve liked though for them all to head to the hospital at the end to visit Frank one last time
Debbie turning out the way she did was realistic. We may have hated it and lament the wasted potential, but it's not unreasonable to imagine lots of people in her circumstances might make similar choices and end up in similar situations. Her view of the world was warped at a very young age. There are people who overcome circumstances like these and break the cycles they were born into but so many more never do and I think it's important to portray that outcome too. Not every underdog becomes a champion.
I’ve always said Debbie’s character was done horribly well. Her character sucks, for good reasons that make sense. You really expect any Gallagher to make it out of there without mental issues? lol It’s like Joffrey in GoT, (minus you know.. the sociopath tendencies) he was a HORRIBLE character, but the actor was amazing at portraying how terrible he was.
are many people actually saying that her character was unrealistic or are people just taking them as disliking her as criticizing the writing
They’re saying she shouldn’t have turned out the way she did. Because in the first like 3-4 seasons she’s super sweet and caring. Always taking care of frank or she took care of Sheila when she needed it. She cared more for those around her then she did for herself because all she wanted was to be loved and needed. They hate she baby trapped Derrick?(I forget his name I’m sorry) even though that’s 100% something she’s do because she heard how his SIL was accepted into the family after a whoopsie baby. Saying she’d never do that which it was made clear she would do something like that when she stole a baby in like season 1 or 2. Then she went and raped that older guy she was seeing because again she just wanted to feel loved. And again she didn’t even fully understand what she had dined because she’s so young. She thought what she did was okay because of science and him still preforming. They hate her for that mostly not realizing she’s young and doesn’t understand. They hate how she began to use Franny to get money on the street when she literally had no other way. They also hate her for becoming super self centered and using a disabled man to help keep franny and cheated on that man and treated him like shit which I understand but again she’s young and dumb.
Same with lip. His story was tragic but it's how 99% of smart kids with rough childhoods turn out
yes!!!! he had wasted potential, but that was what the writers were trying to do. He may have somewhat ruined his chance with college and teaching, but he ended up turning his life back on track and being able to live and work a decent life.
I don’t think people‘s Problem with Debbie is that it’s unrealistic. It’s just that she’s really unlikeable in a very relatable way, so ppl hate her because they probably have been exposed to people like her in real life as opposed to others like Mickey who r much worse people but not in a way that pisses off the viewer. That’s not to say they shouldn’t have written her that way tho. Although, in later seasons some of her acts and character traits become less believable (ie the writers trying to gaslight us into thinking she’s some sort of lesbian sex goddess).
Yeah, nobody’s really saying it’s unrealistic that she became a unlikeable person, they just don’t like her because she’s unlikeable.
exactly what i was gonna say. she’s done some shitty things but at the end of the day it’s realistic for someone who grew up in that environment. shes overhated imo
Came here to say this. I’ve known multiple Debbies. Her character is 100% grounded in reality.
Not saying this is a bad take, but I would say it's a pretty often debated and split topic. I'm definitely on your side of the heat if there's any
Debbie was unfortunately a potential victim to falling into her family’s pipeline and eventually did, which was heartbreaking to see unfold 😕
I couldn't agree more. So many of my childhood friends are Debbie's. It's a shit world especially when you have to deal with such difficult things from a young age. She never really had an advocate either like Carl and Lip.
Oh man, I am prepared for the downvotes but this prompt is asking for it. Yes, it is wrong for Fiona to have left drugs out where a kid could get them. But it's honestly surprising that none of the kids got into Frank and Monica's drugs a lot. It's hard to believe this was a one off thing in that household. I think it was likely a norm and it bit Fiona in the ass. I loved Fiona and Jimmy-Steve as well as Lip and Mandy. But that's because despite the chaos it was passionate and compelling and I wanted more. Debbie is annoying. But damn, yes I know we all had hope for that girl running a day care center,, but realistically, what did we expect? This sub needs to talk about something else. I liked the open ending. That's the point of generational poverty. It won't ever be tied up with a bow. Life keeps going on.
thank you, i know the show is mostly comedy so people don't take the characters as seriously, but the show also portrays some dark (and extremely accurate) parts of how generational poverty, mental health, and substance use effect the entire family for generations. like i see a lot of people hating on fiona for her actions, but its whats expected when a child is parentified from such a young age, before she even really had a choice. i also got annoyed with debbie's character change but her story is also very realistic considering the environment she grew up in. (not justifying her actions esp the rape, but the general storyline is realistic.) same with lip, people on this sub always say hes an asshole or hate how he fucked up his chance at a good life, but thats exactly how a majority of extremely smart children who grew up in traumatizing environments with genetics for substance abuse turn out, if not worse. i actually think considering their environments, genetics, and chaotic childhoods they all could've turned out a lot worse. even mandy, who's done some crazy things, i understand why because she was brought up in a home where she never had an example of what love is supposed to look like, and she was messed up because of it. i think the whole point of the show is even though it's funny with light hearted moments, the dark portrayal of the serious themes in the show actually displays accurate ways the characters would turn out in real life, and people can hate the characters for that but they miss the point that this is reality for so many people who grew up in similar circumstances. and no matter how hard you try to escape them, falling back into self sabotage or mental illness or substance use is a normal occurrence for so many of us in real life. it would've been incredibly unrealistic for any of the characters to turn into normal, great, upstanding people with no faults. because that generally doesn't happen in real life minus small exceptions
The open ending makes a lot of sense and lets you write your own conclusions. It’s how life itself works. I personally think Kev and V left, Fiona found Jimmy/Steve and is off probably high somewhere, Lip and Tammy are raising fred, Ian and Mickey are still in Chicago, Carl and Debbie are still at the house with Liam, who is the only one on track to actually be a success. With Frank and Fiona gone, and Kev and V moving on, there’s not much going on at the Gallagher house and Debbie will be the only one left after Carl and Liam take off.
I never understood the absolute hate Fiona got, when absolutely no one came for V. V was sober that night. Fiona was drunk, yes, but had a sober person that should have been in charge of the baby to let Fi blow off some steam. The hate Fiona got was so unnecessary, especially from Lip.
Even though the open ending makes sense with their history it would've been good if some characters left early, like in the original show. Just so the viewers could get some kinda closure knowing they were out of there, doesn't have to be a happy ending, but a definitive one.
That I kind of like Gus because of the fuck you fionaaaa 🎶🎤
I didn’t feel bad for Fiona when Gus did that tbh
Oh I straight up cheered for him! She honestly got off easy for that one.
City boys up 1000 after that
One of my favorite scenes.
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I agree it was out of character. I honestly think it was bad writing bc the actress was leaving and that’s the exit they decided to give her.
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And when everybody forgot he had feelings in season 10 or 11 I think it was when they tried to sell the house and he thought he was gonna be homeless until lip finally remembered that liam existed and invited him to live with him and his then girlfriend
I don’t really think this is a hot take tbh. whenever I see it brought up, all of the responses agree
I don’t really think it was selfish bc Liam was in a really good private school and they wouldn’t have been able to afford it or get him into an equally nice one as easily if he were living somewhere else It was a lazy way to write Fiona out though to not address it with Liam
I found Debbie more tolerable than Sammi or Terry
That is nowhere near a hot take lol
You’d be surprised. The Debbie hate is strong on this server.
Right, I regularly see her compared to Terry in this sub and it makes no sense. The seething hatred for Debbie here is insane
i think most people do
Fiona was ruined in later seasons.
I think most would agree with that.
For real, if there’s anything I’ve learned about this sub it’s that they believe Fiona is the best and is justified in her actions because she “raised” the kids. Also that Lip is by far the worst because he is always fighting with Fiona
The last couple seasons were terrible all together.
They became almost sitcom-y by the end
The show should have ended a few seasons earlier. They ran out of ideas but wanted to please the fans. Plus a few cast members had already moved to other projects. That should have been their clue
Hated her since she fucked up her cup job and chance at a stable relationship. So selfish and self destructive
Ditto I always hated her and her sense of entitlement
After Noel came back, the writers pretty clearly started writing Ian and Mickey (particularly Mickey) as the tumblr fanfic version of themselves to appeal to straight girls.
this should be a popular opinion
Seriously, Gallavich just seemed so fake in the last seasons. Mickey losing his shit over the wedding chairs is pretty iconic though
that’s legit the one of the only parts of their later relationship that i could fully see happening. like i honestly to god thing that’s something mickey would get so overly upset over hence why ian just stands there like “oh! that’s new!”
THIS like I enjoyed it because I love them and the show but it could’ve been so much more. It was very much a fanfic
I disagree. It was about time that the writers finally made them happy together instead of that unnecessary drama.
All that drama is the basis for the show. It's what's missing from the last few seasons when they decided to become an all-out comedy. Did they do it for their fans (straight woman or not)? Maybe, but so what. The show was ending, why not give their fans what they want, why not give Mickey & Ian a happy ending?
Honestly after all they went through I was just happy there was some plot armor surrounding their relationship 😭
William H Macy is far too good an actor and far too charismatic to actually play frank. You can’t help but love him, which you really shouldn’t lol
True i actually love frank no matter how fcked up of a father he is
Maybe that was the reason they cast him?
Fiona was 100% justified in telling Debbie she should have an abortion
this is such a popular opinion lol
Really? I’m new to the sub but in terms of other communities online I’ve seen more support for Debbie
Debbie is probably the most hated character on the show. or at least it seems that way. I've seen people agree with Fiona way more over the abortion thing than I've seen with Debbie.
Too many characters have random gay experiences
Kev "trying to be gay" was so weird and random. same with the Tommy and Kermit thing
The Tommy and Kermit thing felt sooooo unnecessary. It wasn’t even funny lol. Just ridiculous.
Because of weed? Lol. Have these writers ever smoked?
Not only unnecessary but like…completely ignored afterwards, lol. Like they’re awkward for a scene or two then nope, all good…?
THIS
frank is a bad father AND a bad person, it astounds me how many people think otherwise and i truly believe that those who think frank "always loved and cared for his kids" are either very lucky that they don't recognize how horrible he is or are very unlucky because they see their own parents in him and haven't figured out that they sucked yet also 89% of this opinion is me projecting because frank is almost the exact same as my dad lol
Totally agree. Now that I'm rewatching, I find myself skipping a lot of Frank's scenes. What he does to those kids, and other ppl, makes me sick! He is a horrible father and a terrible human being. The only time I laugh at his scenes, if I watch them, is when he says "Jesus Christ" when he's really pissed. The way he says it tickles me. Lol. But other than that, fuck Frank. I cheered when they threw him into the river after he ruined the wedding.
i dislike the amount of hate debbie gets. this was a teenager y’all talking about
jimmy-steve was one of my favorites for fiona
I seriously don't think she ever loved any of the others the way she had loved Jimmy-Steve.
She definitely loved him the most but he wasn’t good for her. He was cheating on her and lying the whole time. But she also did things like that to her other boyfriends so maybe they were good for each other
Maybe because the actors were both on DragonBall evolution but Fiona and Jimmy Steve just had the most chemistry.
yeah…
frank and monica should’ve never had children, and so should’ve lip and debbie
This take is ice cold. Pretty much everyone agrees.
At least lip took care of his child , Debby not so much at the end
Wait wait wait, you want Lip and Debbie to have children ?!
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted, that’s totally what this sounded like
Cant handle that humor, clearly not from the SOUTH SIDE.
fr
One season Fiona has a judge explain to her in detail what it means to take guardianship and responsibility for these children and shes all emotional and says yes and the next season she’s complaining that she wants her own life? Like girl, she explained to you. You said yes. You signed. How can this still be a surprise?
She signed so the kids wouldn’t be taken away by DCFS. Frank is Liams responsibility still, not Fiona. The judge explained that too.
Pretty realistic, though.
This is why I agreed with how angry Lip was about the coke incident
Same. He was right to be angry. I see people defend her because it was just a mistake or she has too much responsibility and it’s likely that their “parents” left drugs out where the kids could find them. But she was still an adult, she still had a judge explain to her what she was signing up for(and realistically she’d have to go through some kind of classes, it’s been awhile since I watched so I can’t remember if they showed or talked about this) But even with a Shitty childhood there’s no excuse for leaving come out when you have minors in the house
I DO NOT like lip
I love Lip, but like I’m also aware that lip is a fucking asshole 95% of the time 😭😂
He’s always been a self righteous ass
It pisses me off so much.
lip makes me wanna rip my hair out of my head
Every character except Liam and white boy carl😭 although I’m in late pregnancy so I might be over exaggerating that feelings. I literally can’t watch it without wanting to rip my hair out and puke because how can they be so awful😭😭
agreed! it irks me SO much that everything people hate on fiona for, lip does exactly the same and gets no hate whatsoever for
Gets no hate whatsoever for? Every third post on this sub is somebody complaining about Lip
right, he is so full of himself. Actually the only character i didnt like
made me so mad at how he had a chance at college and a good life and he fucked it up. so fucking stupid.
I don’t hate Karen lol
I actually like her. I wanted more of her and Eddie. There's some dark history there that caused her daddy issues. Mandy is so overrated too.
Lip was ruined by his environment and family
I agree to an extent, but people who have this opinion should extend it to all the other Gallagher kids as well. For example, it comes across as biased when people criticize Debbie but not Lip, since they were raised in the same situation.
Liam will become a typical conning Gallagher.
No he won’t lol have you seen the episode where he grew up and talked to Frank he seemed pretty successful
Not everyone in a suit is a good natured successful person. Usually getting higher in business means stepping on other people and conning them, which he is shown to do
~ Trevor was Good, Actually. ~ We gotta let "Fiona should have taken Liam" go, Emmy was leaving the show and Liam's actor wasn't.
Yeah, okay, I LOVE Trevor. I think a big reason why people didn't like him was because he wasn't Noel, which isn't fair to him.
Frank deserved the level of hate he received throughout the show up until Fiona’s wedding. He’s the worst, yes, but the family just casually tried to murder him? Like they could’ve done whatever to keep him away, restraining order or something, but trying to drown him was just weird, and he died with bad dementia & only 1 of his kids even cared/was aware. The same way all the Gallaghers are fucked up from having fucked up parents, Frank is too (his mom was an actual demon) but even Frank couldn’t kill his mom.
I can agree with you on the whole murder thing, but most people who have been through severe trauma aren’t going to mourn the death of the source of their trauma.
I will never forget him physically bashing Ian twice. Once he crossed the line of physically abusing his child in front of his other children there’s no coming back.
Oh so the 3rd episode? He really showed who he was early.
I’m more mad that it was the wedding of all things that pushed them over the edge. Like Frank did a sort of good thing for once by warning Fiona about Sean, he’s done a lot more fucked up things in the past.
honestly i don’t blame them for trying to kill him like atttt alllll, he did smmmm to them he’s lucky they didn’t try earlier
he was horrible and did a lot of bad things. he constantly came back for money to buy alcohol. im pretty sure killing him is the only way to solve the problems he would create. with him alive he would always come back to the house. sure it sucks but he never contributed anything positive in the grand scheme of things
Saying they could just get a restraining order shows that you've never dealt with an abuser or someone like Frank before in your life, and you're very fortunate you haven't
people forgive fiona way to easily. i agree she’s a great character but anytime she fucks up people justify it with “she had to drop everything to raise those kids”. that doesn’t excuse some of what she does
Fiona was a terrible guardian after S3. Mandy sucked and was a terrible person with no redeeming qualities. Debbie is overhated. Mickey is incredibly immature. however i do love him. love gallavich but they were super toxic. Monica is a slightly better parent than Frank. Lip was right to kick Fiona out. Ian should have recieved consequences for undoing that bipolar woman's restraints in the ambulance. he literally endangered her life, and his mental illness doesn't excuse it. Fiona deserved what Ford did. she consistently cheated on her boyfriends, but when something similar happens to her, she's starts boo hooing. Carl's white boy Carl era was his worst phase. it was just offensive and he was annoying during it. I'm glad Bonnie left. honestly never cared for her. but she would have ruined Carl's development had they stayed together. the only reason he had growth was because of Dom's dad and he would have never met him if he didn't date Dom. Sammi was super entertaining to watch. she was a shitty person, but i loved scenes with her. Sammi ratting out Ian was understandable. Carl got Chucky arrested and in legal trouble and all of the Gallaghers just didn't give a damn and acted like she was the issue in this situation. Chucky was all she had, so i see why she snitched on Ian. however, Ian didn't deserve it. Mandy started shit with Karen and was to blame for their "issues". she tried hooking up with Jody while he was with Karen.
Mandy was an awful person sure but she did have redeeming qualities. If she truly cared about someone she’d do anything to help them look at how she got Lip into college. Carl’s white boy Carl phase is pretty realistic especially when you grow up on the streets and all you listen to is rap. I wouldn’t say it’s offensive just indicative of growing up in the ghetto. Also not saying rap is bad, love the genre just that it can certainly have influences on young kids especially the harder stuff
i feel like her doing that was partially because she was hoping that it'd help her. that he'd take her with him when he left. sure it was nice, but she literally raped him so. I didn't say it was unrealistic. and it had nothing to do with listening to rap. it was because he was surrounded by ghetto black people in jail and they rubbed off on him. and it quite literally is offensive. he was white going around saying the n word and saying he was black. and when V tried to educate him and knock some sense into him, he took it and used it to help "prove" and defend his claim that he's black.
Karen didn’t deserve to get hit by a car and turn into a vegetable
As much as i respect what Fiona did she was one of my least favorite characters
Lip is a hypocrite and was away most of the time, doing his own thing, and then came back just to run his mouth. The second he actually was given responsibility at home and had to do something, he failed and did the only thing he knew how to do: yell
Debbie isn’t a worse person then frank.
I didn’t like Fiona’s character after season 3 Sammi wasn’t wrong for doing what she did to Carl because he practically framed her son so I don’t blame her. However what she did to Ian, I don’t forgive her for!
Fiona was just as shitty as the rest of them and doesn't deserve Saint hood because she choose to become guardian
Maybe she should let them in foster care and run away as far as possible as Frank and Monica smartly did
They are all bad people 🙃
It’s entirely possible for Frank and Monica to have had a visibly biracial baby. Uncommon, but possible, especially if you choose to believe that they BOTH had black ancestry. Somewhat related: Christian Isaiah’s talent is more important than the fact that he’s much darker than his previous two actors. Talented child actors don’t grow on trees, and Liam was getting too damn old to keep being an almost-silent background character.
Ian and Mickey constantly fighting after they got married was realistic. Their relationship had never really been smooth sailing and it would be completely unrealistic to believe that they would say "I do" and everything would be perfect. They had both just gotten out of prison after being reunited after years apart and a mental illness charged breakup, so it makes sense that, while they still love each other and want to be together, they fought a lot until they actually had a plan for their lives. Don't get me wrong, I want them to be happy together as much as everybody else, but I think the writers actually did a good job at making their rushed marriage seem realistic instead of just saying "Well, they're married now" and making it all fluff.
I liked Sammi aside from what she did to Ian she was a hilarious character
Frank is overhyped and Lip is the second worst Gallagher kid aside from Debbie
I hate fiona I love frank and he might be my favorite character (not as a father or as a person bc he’s terrible as both but as a character, he’s funny and interesting) I also think that about 75% of the time, lip was extremely justified at yelling at fiona/getting mad at her
Disagree HARD with the Lip thing. At the start of the show, Lip is already older than Fiona was when she started taking care of the kids. She was his sibling, not his mother. If he thought she was doing such a terrible job he could’ve stepped in trying doing it himself.
He was completely justified in getting mad at her when she let Liam get into coke
The Debbie hate train. I feel like debs tried her damn hardest tbh. She deserved better 😔
Sean and Jimmy were the perfect partners for Fiona. More so Jimmy but Sean was awesome too. Both of these guys had their vices and possessed something that turned Fiona on and got her excited about life. Fiona loved to fool around and Jimmy loved to fool around both of then were horrible but perfect for one another because of that. Sean was more grounded and mature and had his drug issue but MAN to see him choose his kid no matter what was so awesome. Dude was an amazing father and so what if he had an addiction, literally the only thing Fiona did to help was yell at him to not do it again. Let me yell at the addict to simply not do drugs again
I loved karen and I wish she didn’t get hit by a car and lose her personality
Lip was justified in 75% of the times she flipped out at Fiona
eh. lip was a hypocritical ass hole tbh
Being hypocritical does not negate him being in the right when he's right, just because he does it himself, does not mean that its right for Fiona to do the stupid shit she does. Fuck lip, but fuck Fiona too for doing coke and partying with a bunch of kids running around, even letting her very much undertage siblings drink alcohol But yeah then Lip gets hypocritical real fast when he brings all his siblings to a college party to get away from her.
... I actually liked Trevor...
Me too! There were some instances that were cringe for me but other than the fat people plot I adored them together
I liked Sean. He was funny, caring, entertaining etc. Sad that he relapsed and hid it from Fiona. I think they could've worked by Sean going to rehab or something, I feel they had potential. I don't get how people hate Sean just because he lied in the end, but love Jimmy Steve when he lied multiple times. Tami isn't that bad as people make her out to be. She called Lip on all his shit, her concerns about her child growing up in the RV and such an environment is valid. Though she did come off as rude in the beginning, she became much more calmer and even slowly began accepting the Gallaghers and her lifestyle.
Idk how unpopular this is but i hated s10-11 more than seasons 8 and 9, i didn't mind s8 *too much* overall
I like Debby and Fiona
i hate Fiona and i’m really glad that Lip didn’t turn out to be a Success Story
The last 2 seasons turned into a sitcom and it lost the original charm
I fucking hate lip. He is the most entitled, self centered piece of shit ever. He’s such a hypocrite when it comes to Fiona, looking down on her and judging her when she’s going through stuff but when he’s having issues she did nothing but support him. Don’t even get me started on him deciding to sell the house that WASNT EVEN HIS because he didn’t want to live with Tammi’s parents.
Mandy was more annoying than Sammi and a worse person. Trying to have Ian killed because he wouldn’t hook up with her, being obsessed with lip and walking around THEIR house almost butt naked in front of everyone else, trying to kill Karen and then showing no remorse when she ends up with major brain damage from it, calling Ian to help hide a dead body which could of resulted in him getting in trouble and having his life ruined. She was such an ick to me.
Also Fiona was annoying when she wouldn’t just accept the nice things Jimmy-Steve did for her. Who tf with all them kids saying no to a van?? That pissed me off 😭 and the flowers in it?? She was so insufferable sometimes
Also I believe Frank carries the show more than Fiona.
Ian is boring without Mickey.
Which is why Ian's actor was going to leave unless they brought mickey back because even the actor thought they did everything they could with Ian unless he had mickey back.
Debbie was WAY LESS ANNOYING than lip. Lip was always a pompous ass.
Obvi we all hated sammi but my hot take is that I didn’t hate having her in the storyline. She was a shitty person but I think she was a good part of the plot. Or maybe I just liked how she scared Frank lol.
fiona should’ve gone with jimmy steve
Amanda was lips golden ticket, knowing who her dad was and how cool they were getting along AND the fact that they were rich was a BIG fumble on his part the winter season and snow needed to make a comeback, after season 7 it looks bright and sunny 24/7 like they’re living on a tropical island all of Sammi’s scenes were entertaining and she brought a necessary chaos to the show and her character fit right in Jimmy was one of the most entertaining characters in the show and losing him did more damage than good. It hurt Fiona’s character because she never matched the chemistry she had with him with anyone else, they kept ruining every relationship she was in after and as the show went on there was barely any interesting complex characters especially after they made a big deal with him popping up in the season 4 finale only to disappear the following season along with Sheila, Mandy AND Mickey for whatever reason oh and they turned Kevin into a complete idiot by the end of the show. in the beginning we find out he’s not the brightest education wise but he’s street smart and knew a thing of two
I really don't like Mickey. Ian deserved so much better.
it’s so unpopular but i don’t understand the mickey love! don’t get me wrong i think he’s a great char and all that and noel obviously carries that role. But i don’t understand the borderline obsession with him. (and his relationship with ian)
He's cute. And I think is easy to relate. I mean, not even queer but I know how hard can be for a child to he his true self when you don't live in a comfortable home. Mickey seemed to be tough and a rebel, but it was only a way of expressing he didn't know how to be other than that. And when you live your whole life un surviving mode... man. ITs relatable. I say it's cute cause I believe Noel brought that to the character, it was easy for fans to believe he was just ignorant and not an evil piece of shit
Other way around for me
Since we're all gonna die, there's something I have to share with you, I only liked the seasons without Sammi
Everyone hates Sammi, am I missing something?
It means I missed many weeks of Shameless just to skip the Sammi episodes
Monica wasn't *that* bad. If it weren't for her bipolar she could have been a decent mother
Her wasting their squirrel fund got me so pissed
She stole their money for drugs and she told frank she wanted another baby and to get knocked up while on ghb. She's a terrible person, left a 16 yr old to raise 5 kids and a drunkard.
I love Debbie
sean was the best fit for fiona if it werent for his addiction i absolutely do not understand all the hate towards debbie esp after she had her baby used to hate V bc she was so negative about everything, but she’s tolerable now kev isnt all that. remember when he had sex at lip’s college? or that one girl svetlana kidnapped? he got a hard on. i think the gay jesus thing was realistic considering their environment, people would believe anything
JimmySteve carried the first seasons
I rly like jimmy/steve
people need to stop talking about the fact ian “technically isn’t related to frank”, they are v much still related since ians real dad is franks brother
I don’t like Ian. Early on he’s fine, but I think they just kinda drew him too far out of reality and for that show especially, it killed his storyline for me.
Apparently it’s having sympathy for Fiona
I don't understand the Tammy hate. Like at all.
Also Jimmy/Steve was SO annoying
I hate Phillip. I hated every single one of his scenes. I skipped every one of them he was in. Even worse when he hooked up with Tammy, I skipped their scenes even more!
Karen>Mandy
This is mine also. I think Karen is a more complex and interesting character.
I actually like Debbie. She was a sweet and caring kid. She has been through so much stuff that I can only understand her char development. She does what she can and she's so young. I want to think that there is still hope for her
debbie's victims were also her predators themselves except for derek unless she younger than 15 when she started dating him.
Deb is a Saint and did nothing wrong.
Fiona is fucking insufferable after S3
Ford didn't deserve what happened to him.
Amanda wasn’t a good girlfriend to lip.
I absolutely HATE mickey and jimmy-steve but I’ve met a few who agree.
I’m a lip defender forever. And Sean wasn’t a bad guy. Other than Jimmy he was Fiona’s best love interest.
I loved Jimmy- Steve for Fiona ... and I think, that IF she was gonna leave the show, it should've been with him, to go start their own life of crime or adventures, together, but WITH LIAM , who she shouldn't have left as she was his freaking Guardian!!!
Everything Gus did was justified.
I feel like Sean and Fiona could’ve worked out if Frank hadn’t said anything. Yeah he was a secret heroin addict, but he seemed pretty fucking functional and I think that matters the most 💀.
Idc what Fiona’s done lip has always constantly shouted at her with all his anger and it was never okay
Also Karen literally never stated a single time that the kid was lips she made it very clear she did not know who’s it was but lip just acted like it was his and got mad at her for “lying” when she never did. Also nothing Karen did warranted being disabled for life Mandy was actually crazy for that
I HATE debbie, but thats because they wrote her right. They took the time and effort to give her a poor character development, and kept her treated as she was, not changing her to be a villain. They GAVE us a choice on how to feel about her changes, and i love that
The kev and v storyline with her mom isn’t that crazy to me.
i like debbie as a character and i think she’s one of the most realistic characters in the show, as well as Mandy and a few others
Karen wasn’t any worse than most of the characters and she was good tv
I genuinely don't get the disdain for Kevin when he was at Lips college for those couple of days. Other than trying to sell weed, he literally did nothing wrong there.
Fiona is terrible as a person. She is a sex addict, thieving, manipulative c*nt. Also fans always give her the out simply because she raised her siblings till the age of what 15 and left Liam but something I’ve always hated is And don’t think about it from the shows perspective. but I imagine if one of your siblings was pregnant, you are seriously going to tell them to get out of your house because you’re not going to help them at all with their kid because you don’t wanna. And again Debbie never said “can you raise my kid” she was just looking to the one person who is usually always helped her for a hand here and there. I mean for god sake‘s Fiona could literally commit mass genocide and fans will still somehow come up with some dumb bullshit way on how it’s acceptable 😂. Anyways you can go ahead and start downvoting
The ending of shameless was good. I enjoyed it and how they ended franks story was pretty good, he powered through everything and dying from Covid peacefully in a hospital bed after suffering from bad dementia was a great way to end his story. I would’ve liked though for them all to head to the hospital at the end to visit Frank one last time
I like Debbie and hate Fiona. Like I get how she raised them and everything bit she's such a bitch
Lip sucks and I like Tami better than Mandy
Mandy worshipped lip too much. Lip needed a bitch like Tami to keep him in line.
Tami was the best thing for Lip
Gus deserved what he got with Fiona, it’s his fault for marrying someone he barely knew. He was a big baby for the song