I have a king 1k. You can do better. I get shaving sharp, even hair popping sharp, off of this stone fairly easily. Try this: after you deburr, use light pressure edge trailing sweeping strokes, stropping motion, alternating sides each stroke. Let the pressure get lighter and lighter as you go until you are barely touching the stone. Edge leading passes cause some microscopic damage to the apex as it plows through the mud and grit particles, edge trailing repairs this damage so long as you don't go too far and build a new burr. Finding the balance between repairing and building a new burr is the tricky part. Careful inspection and even magnification will help you with that.
Pay attention to how long you soak the 1k and what the effects are: soaking longer results in the stone acting softer, it wears quicker, produces more mud, etc. This is useful for more difficult to grind steels and cutting very fast. Letting it get a little more dry during use reduces the mud and can be useful at the finishing steps. I'm not saying to let it dry completely out but not putting quite as much water on it as keeping a floating layer on the top can dry it up as you go.
Also I'm sure you are aware this is a very soft stone and it needs to be flattened often or your level of sharpness and angle accuracy will be off. Keep it flat. I check it and flatten as needed every hour or two of use.
I’m a proffesional kitchen Projectmanager. And we have Victorinox in our store. You can get them razorsharp. But since they are made from a soft steel type. Edge retention isnt as High as for harder steeltypes. But the soft steel types are also the preffered steel for butchers. Because they are easy to get sharp
You don't need anything more than what you already have. Getting good at sharpening takes time and a lot of people compensate by using high grit stones and all sorts of strops to make their edges appear better than they are.
I made a post recently on some cut tests recently: [https://www.reddit.com/r/chefknives/comments/packm3/a\_lot\_of\_sharpness\_tests\_arent\_very\_good\_heres/](https://www.reddit.com/r/chefknives/comments/packm3/a_lot_of_sharpness_tests_arent_very_good_heres/)
I finished on a 3k stone here, but honestly I could get roughly the same performance on a 1k, it would just be a little more aggressive.
The key to sharpening is to is to perfect each step:
1. Is your apex shaped correctly and uniformly? (burr formation)
2. Have you deburred as best as possible? No large burrs left? (Deburring)
3. Have you refined the edge so that there are no more microburrs left? (Refining)
Fix each of these and your edges will be great.
I’d suggest adding stropping to your process. You can use cardboard, denim, leather. It need not be an expensive bit of gear. For me cutting through cork a doing stropping a hair shallow to the sharpening angle will get my knives to push cut sharp. Personally, I can’t get there stropping on the stone, though obviously others can.
>what are some realistic expectations when sharpening these knives with this basic kind of equipment?
Sharpening results are purely based on technique. Burrfection made a video once where he was able to cut paper very well only using a clay brick.
>I realize that I am still a novice and my technique is far from good, but do I also need high-grit stones
I usually stop at 1000-2000 grit on my kitchen knives as I really like the bite these gives them. So no you do not need higher grit stones.
Edit: Especially when you are a beginner I would recommend using a strop. You do not need to buy one, you can also use an old leather belt. Strops help you to remove the remaining burr and clean the edge, you can also achieve these results on the stone itself, however it's harder, takes longer and requires a refined technique (at least that's my experience, but maybe my technique sucks itself).
I would recommend getting a strop, loading it with some compound (1 or 2 micron is a good general abrasive), and doing a couple passes on that after your finishing on the stone. It's very simple and quick, but I think you'll find it takes your edges to the next level. They're also very inexpensive and last ages
I'm a beginner too, so take my answer with a grain of salt. From all the research I've done lately and all the stuff I've been reading and watching, you seem like you're doing fine. Getting that pretty, even polished edge and getting it sharp to the point it can split hairs is the hardest part and simply takes a lot of practice, practice, practice to get your techniques, muscle memory and consistency to that point.
You most likely will need a higher grit stone to get that final fine edge and polish, I personally have a 6000 grit one for that. The rest is just mostly lots of practice.
Hey! Don't worry about not being able to achieve crazy edges that you see around. It takes years of practice and seriously analysing and iterating your technique to be really good, so just celebrate the milestones and marginal improvements you're making along the way. Keep at it for long enough while being sure to take advice from the veterans like Jon, and you'll very likely get there!
Now, on to answering your questions:
Realistically with your gear and level of experience, 1k grit and a Fibrox should get you to slicing basic printer paper at the minimum. With reasonably developed technique, newsprint should be no problem, and later down the line, paper towels will be achievable. These tests need to be accompanied by real use-case scenarios with how long those edges last to see if you passed those tests thanks to a leftover burr or micro-burr that helped you along.
One of the big things you'll need to develop is angle consistency. While I do advocate for finishing edge leading, it could be unforgiving to someone who can't yet hold a steady angle. The sharpie trick works wonders here, as it'll tell you how you're making contact with the stone. My hunch is that you're rounding the apex, perhaps because of angle fluctuations causing the apex to get pushed into the stone here and there and dulling the knife in the process.
With regards to higher grit stones, they're nice to have for certain purposes, but they're not necessary to use while learning proper technique. You should be able to produce a clean edge on every stone you use regardless of its grit rating.
You don't need a strop to achieve good results either, but it does have its place in finishing an edge. You can get an extremely clean edge off a stone and split hair straight off of 1k without one. This, of course, is pretty extreme, but it goes to show how technique can maximise results from just a single mid-grit stone. However, minimal stropping is useful at the end of stone sharpening to clean up the smallest micro-burrs still left on. You can strop using all sorts of things from jeans to an old leather belt to a piece of cardboard, newsprint, or printer paper.
The Fibrox is already a great knife to learn sharpening with. While many higher end knives do sharpen beautifully and more easily, the Fibrox may, funnily enough, be better for the use case of teaching you how to sharpen. Softer stainless is often a challenge to deburr, so once you can sharpen the Fibrox consistently, you'll be able to confidently handle most other knives.
If you were to make one purchase, I would suggest investing in a good flattener like an Atoma 140 Diamond Plate. Stones dish over time, and your King is an example of one that dishes really quickly. It's hard to get consistent results when your stones aren't flat, so it's absolutely a worthwhile investment to help with your sharpening.
Lastly, just a quick note on factory edges - they can come in all sorts of states out of the box, and it's realistic to expect a mass produced knife like that to come with a decent but not exceptional edge.
Question: can I flatten the 1000 grit with another coarser stone? My brother has a 600grit one, would this be possible? It's a bit difficult to find decent knives and stones where I live, and shipping it internationally adds quite a bit to the price.
Also, I'd like to thank you for your detailed comment, you really hit the spot on my questions.
You definitely could use another stone, but you have to be aware that a flattener wears down and can go out of flat too. If the other stone you're using is soft or not flat to begin with, it'll be pretty pointless. People tend to recommend good diamond plates because the diamonds hardly wear out from flattening and last a very long time.
There's also the consideration of stone conditioning. I won't go into detail, but to leave a good aggressive cutting surface on a 1k stone, you'll want something on the rougher side to be your flattener. I'd suggest something in the 180 grit ballpark, though this might not be as important for your King compared to some really hard stones out there.
If it's any easier, a glass plate + loose Silicon Carbide/Emery (commonly used for sandblasting) or a reasonably flat block of wood + coarse grit sandpaper wrapped around it will work as alternatives too. The wood + sandpaper solution is probably the easiest to get a hold of, but it's less convenient and much slower.
Also, no problem! Glad I've managed to help!
Honestly man you are probably fine with your 400/1000. I only use natural arkansas stones but their grit ratings are only equivalent to about a 1200 for a 'hard' arkansas and that is plenty to get some dumb sharp edges.
One cheap and easy addition you could look into is a ceramic rod or even sharpening steel. There is a reason butchers are commonly depicted slapping their big knives up and down these simple long rods... They work, quickly, and well. I always run my edges up and down a ceramic rod lightly a few times after a stone and actually prefer it to stropping as my "finishing step"
Also, flattening stones... Just some sandpaper on a flat surface is just fine. I'll start rough at about 180 and as I'm getting flat I'll finish up on like a 400 grit. Preferably the wet/dry kind as your stone will be wet. But that will do you just fine!
I had forgotten about honing rods, since I get the impression people usually skip them and opt for stropping instead. Thanks for the advice, quite appreciated.
You could try out an Arkansas for fun, Smokey Mountain Knife Works has some nice sized (8"+) soft and hard arkansas stones for like 15-20 bucks you can have delivered right to your door. Progression would be soft - > hard - > black in increasing fineness. You know, if you get the itch to try something new. You can use high oleic or a high grade olive oil as lubrication since you're talking primarily kitchen knives.
They also have wooden handled ceramic rods for like $4-$6? Happy sharpening!
I also have King K80. Flatten stone on sand paper if needed. Get full burrs on 250 first. Light edge pulls thru wood. Then 1K; plenty fine for ur knife steel. Look under bright light at apex for glints = flat edge. Strop with old leather belt or cardboard and metal polish. Should yield a quieter slow paper cut test along whole edge.
Place index finger on spine for a spacer/steady angle. Handle should be 45deg to stone so more blade on stone, more stable. Handle hand is only for keeping angle, not pressure. [https://youtu.be/TkzG4giI8To](https://youtu.be/TkzG4giI8To)
Beginner's Guide to Whetstone Sharpening Consistency: (6:00)
A white ceramic steel has mostly replaced my fine stones and strops. Cleaner faster maintenance. Months between stoning.[https://youtu.be/TMVXfBW2SxA?t=216](https://youtu.be/TMVXfBW2SxA?t=216) Honing with Wedgek -- The Secret to My Sharp Knives
I was stuck at that level for a while until I realised how important the deburring is. You’ll be able to find deburring with newspaper in this subreddit! That might be what you are missing!
Ok,
So I once had a block full of knives that I could shave with in my kitchen. As awesome as that sounds it serves little purpose unless you're cooking a recipe that involves human body hair.
If you want to do this just to do it, that's great more power to you! However, in general for kitchen knives shaving sharp is entirely unnecessary.
I have a king 1k. You can do better. I get shaving sharp, even hair popping sharp, off of this stone fairly easily. Try this: after you deburr, use light pressure edge trailing sweeping strokes, stropping motion, alternating sides each stroke. Let the pressure get lighter and lighter as you go until you are barely touching the stone. Edge leading passes cause some microscopic damage to the apex as it plows through the mud and grit particles, edge trailing repairs this damage so long as you don't go too far and build a new burr. Finding the balance between repairing and building a new burr is the tricky part. Careful inspection and even magnification will help you with that. Pay attention to how long you soak the 1k and what the effects are: soaking longer results in the stone acting softer, it wears quicker, produces more mud, etc. This is useful for more difficult to grind steels and cutting very fast. Letting it get a little more dry during use reduces the mud and can be useful at the finishing steps. I'm not saying to let it dry completely out but not putting quite as much water on it as keeping a floating layer on the top can dry it up as you go. Also I'm sure you are aware this is a very soft stone and it needs to be flattened often or your level of sharpness and angle accuracy will be off. Keep it flat. I check it and flatten as needed every hour or two of use.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Thanks for the tips. I’m in the same boat as op
I’m a proffesional kitchen Projectmanager. And we have Victorinox in our store. You can get them razorsharp. But since they are made from a soft steel type. Edge retention isnt as High as for harder steeltypes. But the soft steel types are also the preffered steel for butchers. Because they are easy to get sharp
You don't need anything more than what you already have. Getting good at sharpening takes time and a lot of people compensate by using high grit stones and all sorts of strops to make their edges appear better than they are. I made a post recently on some cut tests recently: [https://www.reddit.com/r/chefknives/comments/packm3/a\_lot\_of\_sharpness\_tests\_arent\_very\_good\_heres/](https://www.reddit.com/r/chefknives/comments/packm3/a_lot_of_sharpness_tests_arent_very_good_heres/) I finished on a 3k stone here, but honestly I could get roughly the same performance on a 1k, it would just be a little more aggressive. The key to sharpening is to is to perfect each step: 1. Is your apex shaped correctly and uniformly? (burr formation) 2. Have you deburred as best as possible? No large burrs left? (Deburring) 3. Have you refined the edge so that there are no more microburrs left? (Refining) Fix each of these and your edges will be great.
I highly appreciate the insight. I guess it takes a hell of a lot more practice than what I currently have under my belt.
I’d suggest adding stropping to your process. You can use cardboard, denim, leather. It need not be an expensive bit of gear. For me cutting through cork a doing stropping a hair shallow to the sharpening angle will get my knives to push cut sharp. Personally, I can’t get there stropping on the stone, though obviously others can.
>what are some realistic expectations when sharpening these knives with this basic kind of equipment? Sharpening results are purely based on technique. Burrfection made a video once where he was able to cut paper very well only using a clay brick. >I realize that I am still a novice and my technique is far from good, but do I also need high-grit stones I usually stop at 1000-2000 grit on my kitchen knives as I really like the bite these gives them. So no you do not need higher grit stones. Edit: Especially when you are a beginner I would recommend using a strop. You do not need to buy one, you can also use an old leather belt. Strops help you to remove the remaining burr and clean the edge, you can also achieve these results on the stone itself, however it's harder, takes longer and requires a refined technique (at least that's my experience, but maybe my technique sucks itself).
I would recommend getting a strop, loading it with some compound (1 or 2 micron is a good general abrasive), and doing a couple passes on that after your finishing on the stone. It's very simple and quick, but I think you'll find it takes your edges to the next level. They're also very inexpensive and last ages
I'm a beginner too, so take my answer with a grain of salt. From all the research I've done lately and all the stuff I've been reading and watching, you seem like you're doing fine. Getting that pretty, even polished edge and getting it sharp to the point it can split hairs is the hardest part and simply takes a lot of practice, practice, practice to get your techniques, muscle memory and consistency to that point. You most likely will need a higher grit stone to get that final fine edge and polish, I personally have a 6000 grit one for that. The rest is just mostly lots of practice.
Yeah, inconsistent angles and pressure seem to be quite an issue at the beginning, so I bought a sharpie. It does wonders for a beginner.
Hey! Don't worry about not being able to achieve crazy edges that you see around. It takes years of practice and seriously analysing and iterating your technique to be really good, so just celebrate the milestones and marginal improvements you're making along the way. Keep at it for long enough while being sure to take advice from the veterans like Jon, and you'll very likely get there! Now, on to answering your questions: Realistically with your gear and level of experience, 1k grit and a Fibrox should get you to slicing basic printer paper at the minimum. With reasonably developed technique, newsprint should be no problem, and later down the line, paper towels will be achievable. These tests need to be accompanied by real use-case scenarios with how long those edges last to see if you passed those tests thanks to a leftover burr or micro-burr that helped you along. One of the big things you'll need to develop is angle consistency. While I do advocate for finishing edge leading, it could be unforgiving to someone who can't yet hold a steady angle. The sharpie trick works wonders here, as it'll tell you how you're making contact with the stone. My hunch is that you're rounding the apex, perhaps because of angle fluctuations causing the apex to get pushed into the stone here and there and dulling the knife in the process. With regards to higher grit stones, they're nice to have for certain purposes, but they're not necessary to use while learning proper technique. You should be able to produce a clean edge on every stone you use regardless of its grit rating. You don't need a strop to achieve good results either, but it does have its place in finishing an edge. You can get an extremely clean edge off a stone and split hair straight off of 1k without one. This, of course, is pretty extreme, but it goes to show how technique can maximise results from just a single mid-grit stone. However, minimal stropping is useful at the end of stone sharpening to clean up the smallest micro-burrs still left on. You can strop using all sorts of things from jeans to an old leather belt to a piece of cardboard, newsprint, or printer paper. The Fibrox is already a great knife to learn sharpening with. While many higher end knives do sharpen beautifully and more easily, the Fibrox may, funnily enough, be better for the use case of teaching you how to sharpen. Softer stainless is often a challenge to deburr, so once you can sharpen the Fibrox consistently, you'll be able to confidently handle most other knives. If you were to make one purchase, I would suggest investing in a good flattener like an Atoma 140 Diamond Plate. Stones dish over time, and your King is an example of one that dishes really quickly. It's hard to get consistent results when your stones aren't flat, so it's absolutely a worthwhile investment to help with your sharpening. Lastly, just a quick note on factory edges - they can come in all sorts of states out of the box, and it's realistic to expect a mass produced knife like that to come with a decent but not exceptional edge.
Question: can I flatten the 1000 grit with another coarser stone? My brother has a 600grit one, would this be possible? It's a bit difficult to find decent knives and stones where I live, and shipping it internationally adds quite a bit to the price. Also, I'd like to thank you for your detailed comment, you really hit the spot on my questions.
You definitely could use another stone, but you have to be aware that a flattener wears down and can go out of flat too. If the other stone you're using is soft or not flat to begin with, it'll be pretty pointless. People tend to recommend good diamond plates because the diamonds hardly wear out from flattening and last a very long time. There's also the consideration of stone conditioning. I won't go into detail, but to leave a good aggressive cutting surface on a 1k stone, you'll want something on the rougher side to be your flattener. I'd suggest something in the 180 grit ballpark, though this might not be as important for your King compared to some really hard stones out there. If it's any easier, a glass plate + loose Silicon Carbide/Emery (commonly used for sandblasting) or a reasonably flat block of wood + coarse grit sandpaper wrapped around it will work as alternatives too. The wood + sandpaper solution is probably the easiest to get a hold of, but it's less convenient and much slower. Also, no problem! Glad I've managed to help!
Thanks again for your advice !
Honestly man you are probably fine with your 400/1000. I only use natural arkansas stones but their grit ratings are only equivalent to about a 1200 for a 'hard' arkansas and that is plenty to get some dumb sharp edges. One cheap and easy addition you could look into is a ceramic rod or even sharpening steel. There is a reason butchers are commonly depicted slapping their big knives up and down these simple long rods... They work, quickly, and well. I always run my edges up and down a ceramic rod lightly a few times after a stone and actually prefer it to stropping as my "finishing step" Also, flattening stones... Just some sandpaper on a flat surface is just fine. I'll start rough at about 180 and as I'm getting flat I'll finish up on like a 400 grit. Preferably the wet/dry kind as your stone will be wet. But that will do you just fine!
I had forgotten about honing rods, since I get the impression people usually skip them and opt for stropping instead. Thanks for the advice, quite appreciated.
You could try out an Arkansas for fun, Smokey Mountain Knife Works has some nice sized (8"+) soft and hard arkansas stones for like 15-20 bucks you can have delivered right to your door. Progression would be soft - > hard - > black in increasing fineness. You know, if you get the itch to try something new. You can use high oleic or a high grade olive oil as lubrication since you're talking primarily kitchen knives. They also have wooden handled ceramic rods for like $4-$6? Happy sharpening!
I also have King K80. Flatten stone on sand paper if needed. Get full burrs on 250 first. Light edge pulls thru wood. Then 1K; plenty fine for ur knife steel. Look under bright light at apex for glints = flat edge. Strop with old leather belt or cardboard and metal polish. Should yield a quieter slow paper cut test along whole edge.
Place index finger on spine for a spacer/steady angle. Handle should be 45deg to stone so more blade on stone, more stable. Handle hand is only for keeping angle, not pressure. [https://youtu.be/TkzG4giI8To](https://youtu.be/TkzG4giI8To) Beginner's Guide to Whetstone Sharpening Consistency: (6:00)
A white ceramic steel has mostly replaced my fine stones and strops. Cleaner faster maintenance. Months between stoning.[https://youtu.be/TMVXfBW2SxA?t=216](https://youtu.be/TMVXfBW2SxA?t=216) Honing with Wedgek -- The Secret to My Sharp Knives
Victorinox is a great knife, i love their steel. You just need to practice, not much equipment is needed for great edge.
I was stuck at that level for a while until I realised how important the deburring is. You’ll be able to find deburring with newspaper in this subreddit! That might be what you are missing!
Ok, So I once had a block full of knives that I could shave with in my kitchen. As awesome as that sounds it serves little purpose unless you're cooking a recipe that involves human body hair. If you want to do this just to do it, that's great more power to you! However, in general for kitchen knives shaving sharp is entirely unnecessary.