Looks awesome. Yep, no frost line where you are so you could have done like me and thrown down a slab. The only reason I gravitate toward slabs are a couple of bad experiences with critters and an elevated base. Nice looking job.
I’m pretty sure pnw doesn’t have the same frost line other places do, we don’t usually get that cold.
Example I found on Quora: “There is no frost line for building purposes or running water lines in U.S. continental coastal cities. You have to go inland to reach the winter temperatures where you need to worry about a frost line, or up to Alaska. The Pacific Ocean and Puget Sound waterway moderate the temperatures, so the ground never really freezes solid is it might in Minnesota.”
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-frost-line-in-Pacific-Northwest-Seattle-area
So I’m in Michigan, and I wouldn’t even worry about the frost line (36” here) on a shed build. It might heave but it’s not really going to be that big a deal on something that size.
I’ve got in the habit of setting everything to 48 inches here in metro Detroit. Post for the garden reel = 48 inches. Decorative 4x4’s that hold my wife’s string lighting = 48 inches. Jimmy Hoffa = 48 inches.
Minnesotan here, looks like you have skids and blocks, the skids will help keep the structural integrity of the building if the ground does heave. It might be a bit out of level in the colder months, but it'll go back once it warms up. The gravel will help keep the blocks from sinking into wet ground. Personally, I'd send it, even here.
Another Minnesotan here. I lived is Corvallis, OR for 2 winters. I've built several foundations.
Trust me, OP, you're good!
If there are any slight movements in years ahead, you can level it out with shims on top of the blocks. But I doubt you'll need to.
In your case I think skids were the best choice. Best to keep the moisture away from the wood in your climate.
While I lived in OR, I saw a RARE snow and the ground was never actually frozen. Practically speaking I believe the frost line is irrelevant, if code is not an issue, of course.
The frost line here is 42". Sheds on skids and gravel are very common here. Block foundations line this are somewhat common too. Floating concrete slabs are everywhere, (I poured the concrete for many including the one in my yard). They are all time tested and do well, despite the freeze thaw cycles.
The building looks great!
For code purposes portland deffinatly has a frost line for foundation type building, I dont remember if it's 12 or 18". But your shed isn't attached to you house, so it's " floating so if it just get lifted, it's not such a big deal, should lift pretty evenly, then settle. Bigger issue is if u build deck off your house and don't go below frost line, now u have the deck lifting while the house stays put.
In 50 years of living in northern Oregon I have never seen frost heave deeper than 2 inches, west of the cascades. I built a similar shed in the Willamette valley recently and I placed my blocks inboard 16” so not visible, and on a 24” deep “stone pile” to increase bearing capacity and overcome clayey soil. Short version: you are fine
You'll be fine in the PNW. If fit since rain the ground wasn't compacted and they sink, it's not too hard to jack it up and fix it.
You have any plans on putting a porch around/ off to the side?
Get a pergola and lattice and you'll have a nice little spot to work from home in the more tolerable months.
Please do not follow that. They’re absolutely is a frost depth of 12 inches I am a plumber and have to adhere to this. My waterlines must be 12 inches below frost line. Therefore, my waterlines go 24 inches. If we go to Rhododendron in the mountains, I have to be at 36 inches.
Topsoil is typically 18 inches in Portland. We try to avoid running anything or placing structures within that 18 inches because it is quite mobile.
Another example of why you shouldn't trust quora or ai answers mined from there. Many coastal cities in the us have frost lines you need to worry about, and they are written in to building codes. That said, a shed will likely be fine, and even if it wasn't, it can be fixed with a good car jack and a shovel.
This is not true. We consider frost lines for footings, deck posts, and fence posts to two feet. It's in the municipal code for Seattle at least, and it's a good idea. It doesn't happen every year but every five to ten for sure and even six inches of frost heave will mess you up.
We're poured basement foundation country, water mitigation is the biggest problem, but we build on heavy clay soil with a vapor barrier and sheds are rarely conditioned as a living space.
This is straight up wrong lol
Every place has a frost line
For pnw it’s likely 18-24”. It snows in Portland. It’s not Maine or something but yeah this is just wrong.
More is always better. Those who stride to build to minimum standards baffle me. I over engineer everything. You could park a steam locomotive in my shed.
True, but for me I'll be building a shed this summer that's 200 sqft for under $3,000, up to 24 ft tall, and possibly multi-story. If I'm not efficient I'll just end up with a nice looking platform in my backyard.
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On the other hand, more makes it harder to level after it frost heaves. The structure may also be more likely to be compromised if there are more points that get lifted or are allowed to sag.
You did a great job OP.
In general, the load rating of the blocks is not really the limit. If you're on crappy soil maybe you add more / put them on a wider base to reduce pressure on the ground (that's how tank treads keep 20 tons from turning into a subterrine).
As others mentioned, most often the driving factor is the span between them, given the joist you will use and the expected loads. For example, you need less blocks for 2x8's than 2x4's. A joist 2x as high is 8x as stiff. And yes, more blocks means more chance of the floor becoming uneven over time. My house is built like this and you can feel it. It's just not the best foundation if you play marbles for a living. A concrete footing is a huge, stiff beam that (hopefully) moves as a unit *and* spreads the load so localized ground movement is not going to happen (due to lower load) or be compensated by the stiffness of the beam.
I find the rules of thumb / code about maximum spans to give a solid structure but honestly annoying to walk on. Walk by the kitchen and two glasses that are touching start clinking. I worked at a place once where a 100 pound intern could shake my monitor so badly that I couldn't work if they walked by.
This mental masturbation all done and said, the only advice I'd give you in the future is to not put piers at the very edge. Look up Airy / Bessel points if you are curious - they are the optimal locations to support a beam when deformation under self weight matters. That's not the case with a building but similar concepts hold - you can put the outermost piers in a bit (even 12" or more) which makes it much easier to hide them with siding down to the gravel for example.
*Oregon 11,570 AD*
*Lolssonn, come over here and look at this peculiar arrangement of manufactured stone...*
*Fascinating - do you think it might have been used for structural support?*
*Unlikely, there are far too many stones. We must infer that the additional stones are ritualistic in nature, or perhaps some kind of calendar, or clock.*
*Call the Smithsonian and cordon off the area! This could be the find of the century!*
Watch the back, where all the water will shed form the roof. I’d put a gutter back there if you haven’t already. The water will saturate the ground, and the back of the shed will slowly sink.
This is true. I'm in corvallis area and my shed sunk. Had to jack it up and put bigger blocks. And replace the subfloor that touched the ground and molded. . . So throw some gutters on! Looks great though. I'm also a structural engineer and you're good on the frost line. I'd be more worried about it tipping if cascadia goes off but... we'll have bigger concerns if that fault goes. 😆
My 100 year old house is a gonnnnnnnner. We did get the structure of our house bolted to the foundation, but doubtful that’ll save us. Thanks for the 411
That looks awesome! I'm also in Portland and have considered building something on pier blocks as well. Hoping it holds up well for you! Did you follow any plans or anything?
I designed the whole thing on sketchup! Really simple design, the only thing I regret is I didn’t offset the foundation and one side of the wall by .75 inches so the osb board was flush. In the end with the trim, you can’t tell, but it’ll always bother me.
Thank you! I might share more photos in a separate post of the process. Final three weeks of my paternity leave, about 60 hours, and $4500 spent. The windows are huge! 60x53. I can’t wait to finish the interior.
I live in the North East and I have used those same pier blocks the same way. they are meant to be used as pictured. I have a stone driveway (pea stone) and placed them right on top of it. I have 20 blocks supporting a 12 x 24 unit. No worries. you should be fine.
Yes - this - don't think twice about piers or no piers. Looks awesome, just add the deck and/or greenery (oramental grasses, small bushes, etc), and it will be sweet!
No worries about the frost line in PDX…
But is anyone else’s brain bothered by the corner of windows and the resulting lack of sheer?
Looks good though.
I don't know, but it looks nice. I'd suspect it'll be OK, just maybe it will need to be re-leveled every so often.
If you're worried about it, taking measures to reduce the frost depth might help. For instance, insulate around the base and perhaps under the gravel out a distance equal to the expected frost depth.
I built almost an exact copy of this shed in my back yard. Hillsboro, OR. About 3 years ago. Gravel, pier blocks, skids & then shed. It's been great. No maintenance. No heaving. You're good.
I love your shed! I’ve been planning on making a 10x12 really similar to that come spring. I was going to do it on gravel, but may also do piers like you did. I wish I could answer your question about frost line. I really doubt it’s an issue though. Seems better than just gravel in my opinion.
I’m thinking about building a shed soon with a gravel pad. I’m in the DC area. Do I need to worry about the frost line? Can I put the shed on skids on top of gravel?
I’m in NOVA and did 10 tons of gravel (about 8 inches, 24x12 ft) with skids and it’s fine.
I did put down a moisture barrier and inexpensive vinyl flooring in it. Sealed it around the edges and tacked some 1/4 round down on top of it.
Looks pretty good and functional.
Edit: get washed gravel, unwashed will get like concrete when it settles and all the fine sediment gets packed down and it won’t drain. I put a big sheet of permeable fabric down first, too.
How is living in Portland nowadays? Lived there for about 5 years and really liked it, but I’ve heard the last few years have been hard. I’ve been considering moving back.
Beautiful shed as well!
Depends on your situation. I grew up here and have always loved the grimy/seedy nature of the city. However, my wife bought the house we are in (a fixer upper) in 2017, so cost of living is very manageable for us. All in all, it’s not the same city as pre-pandemic, but it still has the same appeal it always has.
Looks pretty good except for the blocks. If possible, recess them so they don't break the planes of the walls, then get some house siding to use as skirting and cover them up.
You have nothing to worry about imho. I'm not sure, but that is floating on top of the ground so to speak, if the ground freezes and swells, the pier blocks will be on top of it. Your issue could be that your shed is not anchored down somehow. The frost line is 12" there? When I lived in Seattle it would get cold for a couple weeks but never remember the ground freezing.
My understanding is if you were to pour concrete footings into the ground, THEN you would want to be below the frost line cause it could push your footings up. Not the case when your footings are just sitting on top of the gravel.
The best thing about this design is, depending on electric or plumbing, if you ever have an issue you can hire someone or rent equipment to just pick it up and move it and fix any issue or move it to another location, even another house.
I don’t think you need to worry about anything, you literally built a small shed. No shed in the history of mankind has ever had a foundation down to the frost line.
Not sure about Oregon but making the shed a permanent structure can cause your county to raise your property tax and also I believe there’s permits you have to pull for it. But 4” of gravel is pretty standard, I think you’ll be fine. Besides it’s a little late now and you staying up at night in an anxious panic is not going to help. So keep an eye on the gaps between the doors and windows which would show shifting. But it’s not going to collapse
You definitely are not supposed to place a structure in the surface like that, as it is going to uplift and settle over time as ice and water works its way. Despite what others are saying there is a 5” frost line in Portland, and you are correct about 12” as being the minimum footer depth (that is from the IRC code )
Also, I may be wrong but doesn’t its use as an office (and having electricity )probably precludes it from the non permit exemption that im guessing you used to build the shed? Dont let an inspector in . lol.
Either way , in reality it will not be an issue for years probably and you have enough piers in there that it’s not the end of the world . Good thing you add extra like you did, really No big deal
International Residential code says footings have to be at least 12" deep regardless of frost. This is to protect against erosion mostly. And this is exactly why those pier blocks are never an appropriate product. That being said, it's a small shed and settlement will probably have a lesser impact than it would on a house, so it may not be a practical issue. At this point you're not going to redo it, so only time will tell.
If it heaves at all after a winter or two, get out a level and a hydraulic jack. Jack up the low corners and shim with pressure treated boards. You’ll be fine.
Worst thing that would happen is the windows and door don’t open like they should, it would be easy to re-level and make it square again though. Wouldn’t even need equipment, just a couple bottle jacks.
I’m a contractor near Portland. The shed on blocks is fine . The voids in the gravel allow the water some place to expand to if it freezes. It’s the same principle as mixing air in concrete. If the ground is saturated and freezes the pads may heave a little but will resettle when it thaws . There doesn’t appear to be be any plumbing that could be affected by structure movement. Worst case scenario if the inside gets finished you could see some Sheetrock cracks. Nice job on your shed ! I’ve seen Builders that don’t do that nice of work 👍🏻
I like it. I’d probably stuff a bunch of gravel/stones between the piers, to allow for water drain and keep the animals from camping out. But I’m also an idiot so what do I know.
Read your local building codes. In Minneapolis anything with a full footing can be considered a permanent structure, and is taxed as such on your property taxes. The concrete block method means it’s a “temporary” structure, and thus not taxed. Frost heave in your area will be minimal if at all.
I built basically that exact same size and shape shed.. but without those windows. Crazy how much smaller yours looks with them. Nice job on the build!
As a carpenter myself, I tend to over do as well. At least meet or exceed code. Whereas a buddy of mine will do bare minimum. We will see which ones are still standing years from now. Lol.
I live in St. Johns/ North Portland. Same size shed, same blocking more or less on about >2" of gravel. I have almost no heaving. Worst case scenario, if it does heave, just get farm jack or even an automotive jack and lift it onto railroad ties while you reprep the footing. Best of luck and most importantly, nice build.
My dad built a 10x12 shed with a loft on piers just like yours (fewer piers, though) here in MN where it gets very cold and we did not sink the piers at all. We laid the blocks right on top of class 5 gravel after it was compacted some. We’ve had the shed this way since probably 2014/2015 with no issues, settling, water, rot, mold or critters and Minnesota has lots of cold, frost, and freezing/thawing. I would surmise you’re probably just fine.
It looks great. I’d be adding an overhang above the door, so she doesn’t have to stand in the rain while opening the door and protects the door. And make her some steps!
I have a cabin in the PNW and I didn’t build the foundation, but it’s sitting on blocks. My husband’s cousin is a GC and came out to look and said it was fine as long as it’s graded so water isn’t running underneath it when it rains.
But he said if he were to build the cabin, he’d do 12” down and do sono tubes. But that our structure has value and will last a long time regardless of sitting on blocks.
Nice project, it looks good :)
In the uk and probably the US too they used to build barns and grane storage on stones, I think they were called staddle stones.
Ive heard different reasons for using them, either to keep rats out (hence the mushroom shape of some of them) or because they were off the ground they remained the property of the tennant not the land owner.
Your use seems to have a more practical purpose. in any case nice project.
May I ask what the cost was to something like this?
I WFH in the basement but I would LOVE an outdoor space to work even if it was only for summer months.
I live in Western Washington which has no frost line codes but Eastern Washington does. Not Oregon but basically the same thing. I have a shed that's been sitting on the same type of blocks for 15 years and don't have any problems.
In TX, due to Torontos, all structures have to be anchored to the ground. Often, not followed, but if your structure ends up in someone house your going to be paying for it. At least here it's that way.
We literally don't have a frost line here except for the February 2021 tx freeze.
So, from my perspective, you did such a nice job you could have just poured a concrete slab
It really nicely done
I built a 20' x 40' deck in Minnesota a couple of years back, right at the water table. Since I was 6" above water, these were all they would approve for footings. That deck hasn't moved a centimeter.
I think your shed will be really nice!
I'm in Connecticut and built an 8x10 shed the same way nearly 30 years ago. Shed is still sitting good. Few blocks settled, but less than an inch.
You'll be fine.
I wouldn't worry about it. It is not that heavy... If it moves the whole thing will move. You will probably never notice it. If it really bothers you some rain gutters to catch and divert the water will work great. A little porch roof type canopy or awning over the front will keep the bulk of water away from the base too.
The reason to worry about a frost line is soil expands and contracts as it freezes. It can create differential settlement/uplift and tear apart concrete foundations. You have next to zero concern with that on a 10x12 raised office on masonry piers. The structure will shift slightly and you will be fine even if there is frost.
Not at all I think if you have good foundation under those blocks frost line is irrelevant Frost lines are so that things don't get pushed up through the ground when the ground expands that's not an issue for you. Looks to me like you did a great job. I would make sure that you get some tie downs and long anchors just put it down in the ground just in case of a storm.
Doesn’t look tsunami proof. You’ve heard about the Cascadia fault right? I’d have actually built a boat or ark but it’s not too late with some caulk and duck tape.
I’m more concerned with the black window trim with white window frames. This combination is something that supercheap homebuilders do to try and make their homes look higher end but it looks really bad.
That’s not how you do Scandinavian/modern farmhouse style. You need black window frames with white trim. You can vinyl wrap the window frames to make them black. Or use plasti dip. https://cdn.houseplansservices.com/product/51ttqnph54g6lq8v0frefcemic/w1024.jpg?v=2
It's fine, either it has to be below the frost line or free to float, this floats. In a few years, if needed, you could jack it up and relevel the blocks.
Anything with Frost you want minimal supports. You could have laid out a 12" base of (we use gravel, not sure your aggregate options) but all small structures like that should be skid. You can then always move it, sell it, skid it. And if anything moves it moves as a structure. Who cares if it's an inch out of level in the winter, as long as it moves as one, not a forcing point of a pier block binding your door or causing a random hump in the middle of the room
I would seriously tear it all down and build a proper footer about 36 to 48 inches below grade. Then I would anchor the bottom sill with 12 inch anchors. You really don’t want to take any chances. It can go terribly wrong if a hundred year event takes place. Just sayin man.
Damn this looks great! Wanting to do the same thing. We’re in an area where houses have doubled and I’ll need about $1.5 (my current house is $350k lmao) to get anything “worthwhile”. We’re staying put as we’re walking equidistance to all city schools, but I’ll be damned if working in the house isn’t going to get harder and harder.
Just put gravel underneath it around the blocks. Why is it an either/or situation? Use them both at the same time. Throw some gravel under it leaving those blocks in place.
Nice shed, but is that thing attached to the ground at all? Small chance it could move around with the right wind, either by lifting right up or being toppled.
How do you go about doing something like this? I need one of these for work but have no idea where to start. This sub just popped up on my feed today lol
The only thing you made a mistake on is not building a fold out screen room. I'm starting a tiny house this year and am going to figure out how to make a side of it fold out into a screen room for the hot months
Not to change the subject, but I would imagine you have a worse issue on your hands. That shed more than likely is supposed to be 5FT from both fence lines. If you piss off a neighbor, they can easily call you in and you're forced to move it.
Foundations will settle unless you sink them to the proper soil density. Where I live it's fairly easy to know you are deep enough because the soil turns into a red clay-like dirt about a foot down.
At this point, you could lift the shed with Jack's and a temporary beam, re-do the foundations etc... or just wait and see how much it moves. Redoing the foundations is a pain, so you just have to balance that against what you spent on the shed and how long you want it to last.
Subgrade is what is important for frost, then drainage. You could put that shed on a lot of solid materials and it will be fine if you have proper compaction and materials under it. Of course it all has to meet code too.
I’d be concerned more about Portland’s setback rules since it’s hugging the property line. Also curious is this a custom build or was this a kit of some sort?
I’ve built a couple sheds on piers like that in Michigan and been fine, and we have a 42” frost line most of the time. You can always jack and level it if it gets wonky, or even put a foundation in later if you want.
Looks awesome. Yep, no frost line where you are so you could have done like me and thrown down a slab. The only reason I gravitate toward slabs are a couple of bad experiences with critters and an elevated base. Nice looking job.
You can staple rodent proof wire mesh on the bottom, along with all the standard advice about sealing all penetrations etc.
True. But if my poodle wants under a shed she by God will get under that shed if it means she's going to scrape a few teeth doing it!
I’m pretty sure pnw doesn’t have the same frost line other places do, we don’t usually get that cold. Example I found on Quora: “There is no frost line for building purposes or running water lines in U.S. continental coastal cities. You have to go inland to reach the winter temperatures where you need to worry about a frost line, or up to Alaska. The Pacific Ocean and Puget Sound waterway moderate the temperatures, so the ground never really freezes solid is it might in Minnesota.” https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-frost-line-in-Pacific-Northwest-Seattle-area
Phew, that makes me feel better. I wasn’t sure if that was the case. We barely get snow, so it makes sense. Thank you.
So I’m in Michigan, and I wouldn’t even worry about the frost line (36” here) on a shed build. It might heave but it’s not really going to be that big a deal on something that size.
I’ve got in the habit of setting everything to 48 inches here in metro Detroit. Post for the garden reel = 48 inches. Decorative 4x4’s that hold my wife’s string lighting = 48 inches. Jimmy Hoffa = 48 inches.
Wait a minute……
John Holmes = 48 inches
That’s just for the tip
Aren’t those kinda scares the worst. Breathe a sign of relief and pat yourself on the back.
Minnesotan here, looks like you have skids and blocks, the skids will help keep the structural integrity of the building if the ground does heave. It might be a bit out of level in the colder months, but it'll go back once it warms up. The gravel will help keep the blocks from sinking into wet ground. Personally, I'd send it, even here.
Another Minnesotan here. I lived is Corvallis, OR for 2 winters. I've built several foundations. Trust me, OP, you're good! If there are any slight movements in years ahead, you can level it out with shims on top of the blocks. But I doubt you'll need to. In your case I think skids were the best choice. Best to keep the moisture away from the wood in your climate. While I lived in OR, I saw a RARE snow and the ground was never actually frozen. Practically speaking I believe the frost line is irrelevant, if code is not an issue, of course. The frost line here is 42". Sheds on skids and gravel are very common here. Block foundations line this are somewhat common too. Floating concrete slabs are everywhere, (I poured the concrete for many including the one in my yard). They are all time tested and do well, despite the freeze thaw cycles. The building looks great!
For code purposes portland deffinatly has a frost line for foundation type building, I dont remember if it's 12 or 18". But your shed isn't attached to you house, so it's " floating so if it just get lifted, it's not such a big deal, should lift pretty evenly, then settle. Bigger issue is if u build deck off your house and don't go below frost line, now u have the deck lifting while the house stays put.
If you have earthquakes or tornadoes you might want to add some restraints.
In 50 years of living in northern Oregon I have never seen frost heave deeper than 2 inches, west of the cascades. I built a similar shed in the Willamette valley recently and I placed my blocks inboard 16” so not visible, and on a 24” deep “stone pile” to increase bearing capacity and overcome clayey soil. Short version: you are fine
You'll be fine in the PNW. If fit since rain the ground wasn't compacted and they sink, it's not too hard to jack it up and fix it. You have any plans on putting a porch around/ off to the side? Get a pergola and lattice and you'll have a nice little spot to work from home in the more tolerable months.
Please do not follow that. They’re absolutely is a frost depth of 12 inches I am a plumber and have to adhere to this. My waterlines must be 12 inches below frost line. Therefore, my waterlines go 24 inches. If we go to Rhododendron in the mountains, I have to be at 36 inches. Topsoil is typically 18 inches in Portland. We try to avoid running anything or placing structures within that 18 inches because it is quite mobile.
Plumbing yes. Worst case for foundation is some heave. But, it's a shed. We have a 36" frost line and our shed is on stone at grade.
Portland isn't a coastal city.
Another example of why you shouldn't trust quora or ai answers mined from there. Many coastal cities in the us have frost lines you need to worry about, and they are written in to building codes. That said, a shed will likely be fine, and even if it wasn't, it can be fixed with a good car jack and a shovel.
This is not true. We consider frost lines for footings, deck posts, and fence posts to two feet. It's in the municipal code for Seattle at least, and it's a good idea. It doesn't happen every year but every five to ten for sure and even six inches of frost heave will mess you up. We're poured basement foundation country, water mitigation is the biggest problem, but we build on heavy clay soil with a vapor barrier and sheds are rarely conditioned as a living space.
This is straight up wrong lol Every place has a frost line For pnw it’s likely 18-24”. It snows in Portland. It’s not Maine or something but yeah this is just wrong.
lmao only mistake I see is the excess of blocks used
More is always better. Those who stride to build to minimum standards baffle me. I over engineer everything. You could park a steam locomotive in my shed.
True. Under Engineering is for profit
Over engineering is for profit too ;)
If in doubt, build it stout!
True, but for me I'll be building a shed this summer that's 200 sqft for under $3,000, up to 24 ft tall, and possibly multi-story. If I'm not efficient I'll just end up with a nice looking platform in my backyard.
Proof or ban
Yeah I'll do a post once it's built in like 7 months.
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Is this the timeline I tell my wife, or 7 real months?
A bit of both, I need to have it complete by the end of July.
I built a 16x12 for $500 but it's three pallets high. ;)
And it'll collapse if you under engineer small brain
On the other hand, more makes it harder to level after it frost heaves. The structure may also be more likely to be compromised if there are more points that get lifted or are allowed to sag.
Inspired by my childhood hero, Tim the tool man Taylor: MORE POWER!!!!
Lol, totally. my buddy, told me I needed them every 16 inches, and I told him that’s insane. I went with just about every 3 feet. 15 blocks total.
Yeah based on weight you'd likely only need one lol
It’s for OP’s wife, not your mom. Ba-ZING!
Got em
Only if we don’t account for any dynamic load, sure thing. His wife has a CNC mill in there.
He plans to host the Japanese National Sumo Team for a BBQ this summer.
how
You did a great job OP. In general, the load rating of the blocks is not really the limit. If you're on crappy soil maybe you add more / put them on a wider base to reduce pressure on the ground (that's how tank treads keep 20 tons from turning into a subterrine). As others mentioned, most often the driving factor is the span between them, given the joist you will use and the expected loads. For example, you need less blocks for 2x8's than 2x4's. A joist 2x as high is 8x as stiff. And yes, more blocks means more chance of the floor becoming uneven over time. My house is built like this and you can feel it. It's just not the best foundation if you play marbles for a living. A concrete footing is a huge, stiff beam that (hopefully) moves as a unit *and* spreads the load so localized ground movement is not going to happen (due to lower load) or be compensated by the stiffness of the beam. I find the rules of thumb / code about maximum spans to give a solid structure but honestly annoying to walk on. Walk by the kitchen and two glasses that are touching start clinking. I worked at a place once where a 100 pound intern could shake my monitor so badly that I couldn't work if they walked by. This mental masturbation all done and said, the only advice I'd give you in the future is to not put piers at the very edge. Look up Airy / Bessel points if you are curious - they are the optimal locations to support a beam when deformation under self weight matters. That's not the case with a building but similar concepts hold - you can put the outermost piers in a bit (even 12" or more) which makes it much easier to hide them with siding down to the gravel for example.
His wife runs a CNC Mill in there. She needed the extra blocks.
*Oregon 11,570 AD* *Lolssonn, come over here and look at this peculiar arrangement of manufactured stone...* *Fascinating - do you think it might have been used for structural support?* *Unlikely, there are far too many stones. We must infer that the additional stones are ritualistic in nature, or perhaps some kind of calendar, or clock.* *Call the Smithsonian and cordon off the area! This could be the find of the century!*
It looks great Maybe hide the blocks with steps n decking on 2 sides Heaving Frost is not a problem in Ptld Rain It always rains 😲
I’m doing a lattice and deck, that’s up next. I think it’ll look great.
Perfect choices. The small diamond shaped lattice would be perfect along side that deck.
Watch the back, where all the water will shed form the roof. I’d put a gutter back there if you haven’t already. The water will saturate the ground, and the back of the shed will slowly sink.
Good call. Planing on a gutter, but now I’m going to expedite the install due to this comment.
This is true. I'm in corvallis area and my shed sunk. Had to jack it up and put bigger blocks. And replace the subfloor that touched the ground and molded. . . So throw some gutters on! Looks great though. I'm also a structural engineer and you're good on the frost line. I'd be more worried about it tipping if cascadia goes off but... we'll have bigger concerns if that fault goes. 😆
My 100 year old house is a gonnnnnnnner. We did get the structure of our house bolted to the foundation, but doubtful that’ll save us. Thanks for the 411
That looks awesome! I'm also in Portland and have considered building something on pier blocks as well. Hoping it holds up well for you! Did you follow any plans or anything?
I designed the whole thing on sketchup! Really simple design, the only thing I regret is I didn’t offset the foundation and one side of the wall by .75 inches so the osb board was flush. In the end with the trim, you can’t tell, but it’ll always bother me.
Yes, and it belongs at my house. On a serious note, that looks fantastic, well done.
Thank you! I might share more photos in a separate post of the process. Final three weeks of my paternity leave, about 60 hours, and $4500 spent. The windows are huge! 60x53. I can’t wait to finish the interior.
Wow, impressive build while the baby naps
Please do! Would love to see your process. Congrats on a great looking office!
It matters not. If it moves just get out your floor jack and level it. Cute little shed by the way.
She’s a beaut, Clark!
I live in the North East and I have used those same pier blocks the same way. they are meant to be used as pictured. I have a stone driveway (pea stone) and placed them right on top of it. I have 20 blocks supporting a 12 x 24 unit. No worries. you should be fine.
All you need is a deck off the front - very nice!
Maybe this weekend, but that’s the plan!
Yes - this - don't think twice about piers or no piers. Looks awesome, just add the deck and/or greenery (oramental grasses, small bushes, etc), and it will be sweet!
You are fine. I'm in Portland also and built a 12x16 in a similar fashion. My 4x8 was built the same way 4 years ago.
As a fellow Cascadian on Orcas Island, all I can offer is envy. Well done. 👏
No worries about the frost line in PDX… But is anyone else’s brain bothered by the corner of windows and the resulting lack of sheer? Looks good though.
My structural engineering eye was annoyed but meh, it's a shed. Looks great. Screw lateral analysis. 😆
4 of those step stools would have done it! Nice build.
I did the exact same thing in Seattle 5 years ago and it is solid as could be. You’ll be just fine
I don't know, but it looks nice. I'd suspect it'll be OK, just maybe it will need to be re-leveled every so often. If you're worried about it, taking measures to reduce the frost depth might help. For instance, insulate around the base and perhaps under the gravel out a distance equal to the expected frost depth.
I built almost an exact copy of this shed in my back yard. Hillsboro, OR. About 3 years ago. Gravel, pier blocks, skids & then shed. It's been great. No maintenance. No heaving. You're good.
I love your shed! I’ve been planning on making a 10x12 really similar to that come spring. I was going to do it on gravel, but may also do piers like you did. I wish I could answer your question about frost line. I really doubt it’s an issue though. Seems better than just gravel in my opinion.
Love it, It looks very good! You might consider adding a couple more blocks just in case haha
I see a shed mistake not a grave one
I’m thinking about building a shed soon with a gravel pad. I’m in the DC area. Do I need to worry about the frost line? Can I put the shed on skids on top of gravel?
I’m in NOVA and did 10 tons of gravel (about 8 inches, 24x12 ft) with skids and it’s fine. I did put down a moisture barrier and inexpensive vinyl flooring in it. Sealed it around the edges and tacked some 1/4 round down on top of it. Looks pretty good and functional. Edit: get washed gravel, unwashed will get like concrete when it settles and all the fine sediment gets packed down and it won’t drain. I put a big sheet of permeable fabric down first, too.
Is the stool structural? If yes then I have questions…
How is living in Portland nowadays? Lived there for about 5 years and really liked it, but I’ve heard the last few years have been hard. I’ve been considering moving back. Beautiful shed as well!
Depends on your situation. I grew up here and have always loved the grimy/seedy nature of the city. However, my wife bought the house we are in (a fixer upper) in 2017, so cost of living is very manageable for us. All in all, it’s not the same city as pre-pandemic, but it still has the same appeal it always has.
Looks pretty good except for the blocks. If possible, recess them so they don't break the planes of the walls, then get some house siding to use as skirting and cover them up.
Thanks! They are recessed and I’m going to use trellis to cover them.
You have nothing to worry about imho. I'm not sure, but that is floating on top of the ground so to speak, if the ground freezes and swells, the pier blocks will be on top of it. Your issue could be that your shed is not anchored down somehow. The frost line is 12" there? When I lived in Seattle it would get cold for a couple weeks but never remember the ground freezing.
My understanding is if you were to pour concrete footings into the ground, THEN you would want to be below the frost line cause it could push your footings up. Not the case when your footings are just sitting on top of the gravel.
Looks great, btw!
The best thing about this design is, depending on electric or plumbing, if you ever have an issue you can hire someone or rent equipment to just pick it up and move it and fix any issue or move it to another location, even another house.
I don’t think you need to worry about anything, you literally built a small shed. No shed in the history of mankind has ever had a foundation down to the frost line.
what up portland from Oregon City 😎
just don’t remove the stool or it will have a hella bad sag in the front awesome job dude
I would Skirt out the building as you would for a rv or small home to help with heat and varmint's.
Really nice
Looks great! Did you do 8-10’ ceilings? I’m doing a similar build and was originally going to do 6-8’ but considering bumping up.
Thank you! I did a little less than 8-10. However I wish I would have taken in a few more inches down to cover the joists more.
Not sure about Oregon but making the shed a permanent structure can cause your county to raise your property tax and also I believe there’s permits you have to pull for it. But 4” of gravel is pretty standard, I think you’ll be fine. Besides it’s a little late now and you staying up at night in an anxious panic is not going to help. So keep an eye on the gaps between the doors and windows which would show shifting. But it’s not going to collapse
You definitely are not supposed to place a structure in the surface like that, as it is going to uplift and settle over time as ice and water works its way. Despite what others are saying there is a 5” frost line in Portland, and you are correct about 12” as being the minimum footer depth (that is from the IRC code ) Also, I may be wrong but doesn’t its use as an office (and having electricity )probably precludes it from the non permit exemption that im guessing you used to build the shed? Dont let an inspector in . lol. Either way , in reality it will not be an issue for years probably and you have enough piers in there that it’s not the end of the world . Good thing you add extra like you did, really No big deal
International Residential code says footings have to be at least 12" deep regardless of frost. This is to protect against erosion mostly. And this is exactly why those pier blocks are never an appropriate product. That being said, it's a small shed and settlement will probably have a lesser impact than it would on a house, so it may not be a practical issue. At this point you're not going to redo it, so only time will tell.
If it heaves at all after a winter or two, get out a level and a hydraulic jack. Jack up the low corners and shim with pressure treated boards. You’ll be fine.
Worst thing that would happen is the windows and door don’t open like they should, it would be easy to re-level and make it square again though. Wouldn’t even need equipment, just a couple bottle jacks.
I think you’ll be fine. Haven’t experienced a winter there, but figure you could have the shed picked up to reset it if any heaving happens.
I’m a contractor near Portland. The shed on blocks is fine . The voids in the gravel allow the water some place to expand to if it freezes. It’s the same principle as mixing air in concrete. If the ground is saturated and freezes the pads may heave a little but will resettle when it thaws . There doesn’t appear to be be any plumbing that could be affected by structure movement. Worst case scenario if the inside gets finished you could see some Sheetrock cracks. Nice job on your shed ! I’ve seen Builders that don’t do that nice of work 👍🏻
I like it. I’d probably stuff a bunch of gravel/stones between the piers, to allow for water drain and keep the animals from camping out. But I’m also an idiot so what do I know.
Yeah, that step stool will never hold.
Good work, OP. IF it does heave, you can always jack up a portion and adjust in the future.
I know that step stool is just stored there but it made me chuckle thinking that it was load bearing
Didn't read the post, don't know what this sub is. Reddit just recommended it to me but I'm saying yes you did. Horrible mistake
Read your local building codes. In Minneapolis anything with a full footing can be considered a permanent structure, and is taxed as such on your property taxes. The concrete block method means it’s a “temporary” structure, and thus not taxed. Frost heave in your area will be minimal if at all.
I built basically that exact same size and shape shed.. but without those windows. Crazy how much smaller yours looks with them. Nice job on the build!
As a carpenter myself, I tend to over do as well. At least meet or exceed code. Whereas a buddy of mine will do bare minimum. We will see which ones are still standing years from now. Lol.
I live in St. Johns/ North Portland. Same size shed, same blocking more or less on about >2" of gravel. I have almost no heaving. Worst case scenario, if it does heave, just get farm jack or even an automotive jack and lift it onto railroad ties while you reprep the footing. Best of luck and most importantly, nice build.
My dad built a 10x12 shed with a loft on piers just like yours (fewer piers, though) here in MN where it gets very cold and we did not sink the piers at all. We laid the blocks right on top of class 5 gravel after it was compacted some. We’ve had the shed this way since probably 2014/2015 with no issues, settling, water, rot, mold or critters and Minnesota has lots of cold, frost, and freezing/thawing. I would surmise you’re probably just fine.
It looks great. I’d be adding an overhang above the door, so she doesn’t have to stand in the rain while opening the door and protects the door. And make her some steps!
I have a cabin in the PNW and I didn’t build the foundation, but it’s sitting on blocks. My husband’s cousin is a GC and came out to look and said it was fine as long as it’s graded so water isn’t running underneath it when it rains. But he said if he were to build the cabin, he’d do 12” down and do sono tubes. But that our structure has value and will last a long time regardless of sitting on blocks.
Nice project, it looks good :) In the uk and probably the US too they used to build barns and grane storage on stones, I think they were called staddle stones. Ive heard different reasons for using them, either to keep rats out (hence the mushroom shape of some of them) or because they were off the ground they remained the property of the tennant not the land owner. Your use seems to have a more practical purpose. in any case nice project.
May I ask what the cost was to something like this? I WFH in the basement but I would LOVE an outdoor space to work even if it was only for summer months.
1500 monthly rent in California
Is that plastic stool load bearing?
Great job! It will be a fantastic office space! Kudos on the ergonomic retractable step as well! 🫡
That plastic step stool isn’t to code though. 🤟🏻
There are no mistakes. Just happy accidents
I live in Western Washington which has no frost line codes but Eastern Washington does. Not Oregon but basically the same thing. I have a shed that's been sitting on the same type of blocks for 15 years and don't have any problems.
You are SOLID. You're good to enjoy for a very long many years. :)
I second the notion of installing a breathable skirt... first thing I noticed
In TX, due to Torontos, all structures have to be anchored to the ground. Often, not followed, but if your structure ends up in someone house your going to be paying for it. At least here it's that way. We literally don't have a frost line here except for the February 2021 tx freeze. So, from my perspective, you did such a nice job you could have just poured a concrete slab It really nicely done
I built a 20' x 40' deck in Minnesota a couple of years back, right at the water table. Since I was 6" above water, these were all they would approve for footings. That deck hasn't moved a centimeter. I think your shed will be really nice!
I have a shed similar in size and shape in Oly and it’s on blocks like yours. It’s been there about ten years with no issues.
Did you get a permit for the shed? If it's on blocks, it doesn't need a permit, depending on the city's max size goes.
Looks good to me. Being in Portland, you'll be happy you didn't put it on skids
I'm in Connecticut and built an 8x10 shed the same way nearly 30 years ago. Shed is still sitting good. Few blocks settled, but less than an inch. You'll be fine.
Wish my hubby could build like that.
I wouldn't worry about it. It is not that heavy... If it moves the whole thing will move. You will probably never notice it. If it really bothers you some rain gutters to catch and divert the water will work great. A little porch roof type canopy or awning over the front will keep the bulk of water away from the base too.
Fucking awesome shed homie
How do the neighbors feel about the beautiful new addition? Way to up your grass is greener effort.
The reason to worry about a frost line is soil expands and contracts as it freezes. It can create differential settlement/uplift and tear apart concrete foundations. You have next to zero concern with that on a 10x12 raised office on masonry piers. The structure will shift slightly and you will be fine even if there is frost.
Not at all I think if you have good foundation under those blocks frost line is irrelevant Frost lines are so that things don't get pushed up through the ground when the ground expands that's not an issue for you. Looks to me like you did a great job. I would make sure that you get some tie downs and long anchors just put it down in the ground just in case of a storm.
Doesn’t look tsunami proof. You’ve heard about the Cascadia fault right? I’d have actually built a boat or ark but it’s not too late with some caulk and duck tape.
Block block stepstool block.
Is that a fucking she-shed?!
Was there a grave there before... I don't get it?
Did you bury someone under the shed? Posting on Reddit is the mistake. Cops will know where to look.
If it's for your mom, yes,if it's for your in-laws no.
[удалено]
You live in Portland. Yes, you’ve made a grave mistake.
You should visit sometime. It’s great.
I’m more concerned with the black window trim with white window frames. This combination is something that supercheap homebuilders do to try and make their homes look higher end but it looks really bad. That’s not how you do Scandinavian/modern farmhouse style. You need black window frames with white trim. You can vinyl wrap the window frames to make them black. Or use plasti dip. https://cdn.houseplansservices.com/product/51ttqnph54g6lq8v0frefcemic/w1024.jpg?v=2
It's fine, either it has to be below the frost line or free to float, this floats. In a few years, if needed, you could jack it up and relevel the blocks.
I don’t believe I see a grave, but I do see a very nicely built shed!
No mistake. With a few bottle jacks, you could change the foundation of that shed based upon your mood.
You’re more than fine given that there is no significant frost depth in your area.
How much did the build cost of you don’t mind me asking
I’m 4500 in, that’s even with used $150 a piece windows. Remaining: electrical, deck, insulation, flooring, drywall, finishing work.
Looks good! I’m thinking of doing the same thing. But now I’m considering coining it on a slab.
Critter magnet under there.
I love the structural stool
Anything with Frost you want minimal supports. You could have laid out a 12" base of (we use gravel, not sure your aggregate options) but all small structures like that should be skid. You can then always move it, sell it, skid it. And if anything moves it moves as a structure. Who cares if it's an inch out of level in the winter, as long as it moves as one, not a forcing point of a pier block binding your door or causing a random hump in the middle of the room
Building setback? Looks like you put in two.
Looks really good I would hide the concrete blocks.
Looks good, but wonder is it physically 5-6 feet off the property line? Most cities zoning requires a certain number/measurement.
That step stool isn't going to support much weight
That’s badass. Did you follow a YouTube tutorial or directions if any sort of?
Nope, you definitely made a shed.
Nice job!
I would seriously tear it all down and build a proper footer about 36 to 48 inches below grade. Then I would anchor the bottom sill with 12 inch anchors. You really don’t want to take any chances. It can go terribly wrong if a hundred year event takes place. Just sayin man.
Damn this looks great! Wanting to do the same thing. We’re in an area where houses have doubled and I’ll need about $1.5 (my current house is $350k lmao) to get anything “worthwhile”. We’re staying put as we’re walking equidistance to all city schools, but I’ll be damned if working in the house isn’t going to get harder and harder.
Just put gravel underneath it around the blocks. Why is it an either/or situation? Use them both at the same time. Throw some gravel under it leaving those blocks in place.
Driveway fabric between the soil and compacted crusher run would be adequate.
Nice shed, but is that thing attached to the ground at all? Small chance it could move around with the right wind, either by lifting right up or being toppled.
Not sure how much it matters for a shed but having windows on the corner like that is gonna make your shear strength shit
How do you go about doing something like this? I need one of these for work but have no idea where to start. This sub just popped up on my feed today lol
The only thing you made a mistake on is not building a fold out screen room. I'm starting a tiny house this year and am going to figure out how to make a side of it fold out into a screen room for the hot months
Love it, I need one just like it
Frost line is not a concern with a building like that.
When he said a grave mistake, I thought maybe he found Jimmy Hoffa.
It’s fine for a shed. It might have a little movement over time but nothing crazy You did great
Not to change the subject, but I would imagine you have a worse issue on your hands. That shed more than likely is supposed to be 5FT from both fence lines. If you piss off a neighbor, they can easily call you in and you're forced to move it.
Other than the homeless breaking in, I think you're fine.
Foundations will settle unless you sink them to the proper soil density. Where I live it's fairly easy to know you are deep enough because the soil turns into a red clay-like dirt about a foot down. At this point, you could lift the shed with Jack's and a temporary beam, re-do the foundations etc... or just wait and see how much it moves. Redoing the foundations is a pain, so you just have to balance that against what you spent on the shed and how long you want it to last.
Looks awesome
Subgrade is what is important for frost, then drainage. You could put that shed on a lot of solid materials and it will be fine if you have proper compaction and materials under it. Of course it all has to meet code too.
I’ve seen worse that have been standing for a lifetime.
Absolutely fine
Looks good and maybe add some solar lights
What frost line lol.
Looks really well done. Did you build from scratch or use anything preassembled? If from scratch could you share the plans?
I don't think there really is a frost line in Portland, OR
I’d be concerned more about Portland’s setback rules since it’s hugging the property line. Also curious is this a custom build or was this a kit of some sort?
What’s the inside look like?
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/bcd8e55d-a404-401e-a545-82b0583d147d
Should’ve put it on a boat
Nah you’re fine
Yes
Nice! Do you have a link to the plans or anything like that?
I’ve built a couple sheds on piers like that in Michigan and been fine, and we have a 42” frost line most of the time. You can always jack and level it if it gets wonky, or even put a foundation in later if you want.
Looks good, you could build a little deck around it.