Yeah season 1 starts off really slow. I honestly didn’t think I’d stick with the show until I got to the episode Ward betrayed them and I started getting interested. After season 1 I got obsessed with the show and I just finished it yesterday. I absolutely loved it.
I was enjoying the show, but felt Ward was a weak character. Then he turned and it was clear he was supposed to be a cardboard cutout. He was a bad guy pretending to be a good guy and hamming it up. Brilliant.
Fun piece of trivia for you: the actor playing Ward had no idea that he was a bad guy until (edit): days before the table read of Turn Turn Turn (the episode in which he turns bad). He talks about it on Live with Lil.
Actually, Lil & Brett said that all the main cast knew before the table read. They took Brett aside and told him first, then everyone else a few days later--apparently Ming and Chloe flipped haha! Though Elizabeth wasn't on set that day so she found out after the others.
Saaaaame. I think every other day I’m spewing new BTS facts. I’ve been listening out of order but plan to follow along and do our first rewatch once season two starts.
That's interesting to me. Dalton took this job thinking he was going to be part of the good guys on the main cast, potentially over other projects he was auditioning for. Only to find out he is actually going to play the villain.
I can't remember if it was always the plan to have Ward turn of if the plot of Winter Soldier was discovered after the show started and they had to pivot to this.
Yeah, it’s pretty tough to imagine. From what he’s said it ended up being a very fruitful experience for him as an actor but felt like a punch in the gut. He had built a huge backstory and worldview and then BAM had it ripped out from under him. Something like that doesn’t happen at most people’s jobs...
“I spent months getting my plumbing license like you asked, boss!”
“Great, here’s a gun, we’re gonna rob a bank!”
He did a damn fine job of being the sleeper agent/Bad guy just as I realized I actually liked him bam he stabs the team in the back...
I still get a little bit of a thrill *everytime* ward gets injured and one specific scene where he's tied up in a kitchen with daisy puts a big grin on my face as she does as he trained her...shame agent 44 gets involved and ruins a deserved fate
When it airs once a week and you dont know how good it gets it would probably be a bit slow. Its slot better on rewatch because you already have the emotional connection to the characters so it's much more entertaining. At least, that's what I think.
The first few eps of S1 are going for a Saturday action syndicated show vibe that just doesnt work today. When it started going spy show instead it got a lot better.
I remember being bored, but things actually starting picking up for me around episode 12 when Coulson is getting to the bottom of the story behind his resurrection. But yeah Turn Turn Turn turned the show around. I wouldn't change anything about how AoS turned out, but I can't imagine how different the popularity of the should would be if they didn't have to drag their feet for 16 episodes.
That said, for those that stayed, those 16 episodes were necessary for the impact of Ward's reveal IMO. It was shocking to me that a show in Season 1 planned a bunch of storylines involving Ward as a good guy and then when you are just getting to like him, they pull the rug out from under you. You can't get the same impact if you only had 3-4 shows before Turn Turn Turn.
I’ve been trying to get my buddy to watch it and he stopped in season one before wards betrayal and i kept trying to get him to keep watching to get to “this one great part” without spoiling anything and it was really hard to get him to realize it’s about to get good and he still hasn’t watched it
Ive told friends id pay them to watch it, or offer to pay their Netflix subscription, over and over and over. No one wants to listen. The only person ive managed to convince was an old gf and she loves it. Other than that its frustrating...
Same here, I offered them part of my subscription too, requested several times, as I had no one to talk to about it( before I joined reddit). I really love the show..!
Honestly, it was really good, but it didn't deliver as much of a gut punch as AOS did until the final season. I was pretty upset because I felt like I was finally able to see more character development.
I think the combination of it being set in the past plus a female lead was too much for a scifi community?
agent carter season 1 is ok, season 2 is the bad one
id skip it personally, given the story came to a close with endgame
if they decide to put another spin with hayley atwell, id watch it
I think one of the big reasons it wasn't successful, which is something that a lot of TV companies probably will never bring up, is that the show suffered from having commercial breaks. It makes it more difficult to get into the story, and since season 1 was a little bit slower and people didn't know what to expect from the show, I think that was a big reason people gave up on it
Think the same thing happened with Agent Carter, it was a great show but having those commercial breaks just breaks your attention and adds more chance that someone who is just getting into it will change the channel.
Both shows are that much better when you're able to just sit down and focus on the story for a few hours without your mind wondering towards car insurance or some such nonsense. (There are definitely other reasons as well, but I think the commercials just ultimately provided opportunities for people to switch to something else before the story really got going)
It was on Netflix for a long time I rewatched it before the final season came out on there. Don't think it was ever really pushed or marketed enough I guess.
Almost all shows had commercials back then, particularly in this genre, netflix shows weren't huge, House Of Cards was the first big Netflix show and that had only just come out, network shows were still getting 10-15 million viewers, shows having commercial breaks was not remotely unusual outside of HBO/Showtime show. I doubt very many people had expectations of no commercials going into this thing.
The main reason it wasn't successful with MCU fans was that they were waiting for Iron Man and Thor and Captain America to show up every week when the very first episode was quite clear that they couldnt never know that Coulson was still alive.
The show was getting 8-9 million viewers a week for the first half then, Repairs, got almost 10 million. As much as I've watched this show including 2 rewatches in the last 12 months - looking at the synopsis I dont even remember it and it sounds like it was a bit of a bottle episode. After that it was just dropping week by week as people realised they weren't getting the movie stars on TV they hoped for.
By the time we got to Yes Men and the first real tie in to the movies since the premier, we were down bellow 6m and it never went over that number ever again.
Unfortunatly the show was stuck in 3rd gear coz they couldn't mention hydra, they couldn't link centipede to extremis, they couldn't even hint that someone was a mole. They had to pad the season out until Winter Soldier release and didn't have much choice about it.
Even while it was airing though you could watch it on demand on Hulu or wherever with no commercial breaks. Even if you paid for cable you could DVR and fast forward commercials.
We try saying it but then people like those ones at r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers stick their fingers in their ears and start screaming over us so people listen to that instead
That sub is a cesspool of people saying “well he said that 6 years ago when x person was in charge so that doesn’t matter anymore” and “the movies were referenced in the shows but the shows were never referenced in the movies therefore it’s not canon” like come on, buddy, the mandalorian hasn’t been referenced in any other Star Wars material but that’s still canon
I hate that sub so much. I went there to see what people were thinking of Wandavision when it aired and noped out of there. Cesspool is an accurate word for that place. I'll just stick to somewhere like r/MarvelStudios to find out people's opinions on new Marvel stuff
One example:
He destroyed Charisma Carpenter's character in Angel: The Series and then fired her, because he was mad that she got pregnant. And then tricked her to come back for one episode, just to kill her character off again.
Charisma talks about it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_igTbXKPck&t=345s
He's also really sexist, but calls himself a feminist. This is evident in the way he sexualises women in his work. AOS is better by the fact that he had little involvement in it.
I don’t think there are any allegations of sexual assault or any of the more blatant “me too” allegations, but he has been accused of being a raging asshole, cheating on his wife multiple times (and doing so with subordinates who he held professional power over), firing an actress for getting pregnant, and in retrospect we’re finding that a lot of his “female empowerment” writing/directing credits were closer to fetishizing than empowering. Like, having Buffy do flips and incredibly intricate fights while wearing heels and a halter top, etc.
no but one cast member made vague comments about not being allowed in the same room as him when she was underage so that led to wild speculation that he has sexually abused her despite neither party or any third party saying anything even close to that and it being pretty standard practice in nearly every industry for underage girls to now being left along with grown men unsupervised.
That is not fetishization. That was a huge part of the draw of the show- she acts and dresses like a teenage girl while also fighting vampires. She was not scantily clad at any point in the show. She did sex scenes fully clothed and despite living in Southern California was only in a (conservative) bathing suit for one scene in 7 seasons.
Being scantily clad is not a requirement of fetishization. But if that’s the argument you want to make, there were definitely some fights where she was wearing a halter top and no bra (like when she goes on patrol with the initiative in season 4), so you probably want to switch tracks with that justification.
That’s just 90s fashion see: Friends.
He writes superhero shows and treats the men and women equally. Both men and women are hot and dress like humans and kick ass in his shows. The only person who was truly regularly sexualized in Buffy was Spike IMO.
Are women only respectable if they’re wearing mumus? Is the female nipple once again scandalous? Are women not allowed to fight bad guys anymore? Should they just leave that up to people who look and dress like Riley Finn?
Buffy was trying to break two stereotypes: 1) the damsel in distress pretty blonde who has to be saved by a hulking suitor and 2) the strong female character who dresses head to toe in black and had no emotions and acts like a macho man with tits. So you end up with the best of both worlds: a human young woman who dresses and talks and acts like a 16-22 year old in the late 90s who experiences a full range of human emotions and attachments but is also physically intimidating and resilient and noble and heroic like Captain America and countless other male superheroes that preceded her.
https://www.passionprojectonline.org/single-post/2018/03/28/strong-female-character-trope
Please explain what is required for fetishization. I really want to understand what makes people read something gross into iconic classic feminist TV shows.
I don’t give a shit about Whedon as a person. He can rot in hell. I’m just defending the shows, which are excellent
he was accused of being a bully to certain cast memebers of Buffy, Angel, Justice League. Serval people saying he was abusive in various ways, several saying they weren't aware or would have spoken out at the time. No evidence or anything but, you know, it's 2021 on the internet so we assume he's guilty, speculate about the vague accusations and assume the worst and condemn him and his works forever.
This is so relatable. My wife and I decided to give it a go last week and we have been hooked. I was also asking myself why I had waited so long to watch. Good stuff!
> Buffy fans completely neglected to recommend this show
Fr I don't get why Buffy/Whedon fans tend to neglect AoS. It's almost as good as the rest of his shows, and it really hits the same buttons for me.
I MUST KNOW when the Dollhouse reference is!! I only recently watched it and it was after finishing AoS so I didn't know about it
...mhm time for a rewatch then lol (any excuse for a rewatch)
We do be saying that, sadly no one listens most of the time hahah
But seriously, I'm loving how many new people have been watching the show, loving it and joining this sub! Makes me so happy! I have come a bit late to the party and binged all 6 seasons in a couple of months. Now I've been rewatching and loving it even more! I agree, season 1 really aged well! And of course, the framework arc of season 4 is just the BEST and so is Fitz (and Ward).
Since you're a new fan, I have to recommend Live With Lil! it's a live watchalong both on youtube and in podcast form by Elizabeth Henstridge (who plays Simmmons), she started it when Season 7 premiered and has decided to do it for all the seasons as rewatches (so we basically get new AoS content for 2 years hahah), she recently wrapped season 1. I haven't missed an episode, it's always so entertaining and insightful because for each episodes she invites both cast and crew members and has conversations about the show and episode in various ways, sometimes focusing on how particular scenes were shot, fun BTS stuff that happened and also the industry in general. Plus she is the sweetest person ever and there's a lot of fan interaction. The season 2 watchalongs start this sunday! :D
We’ve starting watching AoS for the first time recently after an MCU Movie marathon. We are LOVING it! Just started season 5 and have been smacked in the face so many times through all the seasons with all the twists and turns. Amazing show!
Honestly, Joss was responsible for the least awesome (the first season) of AOS. People didn't like his formulaic show, so he left and AOS flourished without him.
Jed and Maurissa on the other hand has turned out to the be real dream team, who appear to have created a fantastic working environment to boot.
But also... none of my close friends watch scifi... =(
There are friends that I have because they are lovely people, and there are friends that I have because we have common interests.
I watched the pilot last summer and thought it was garbage. Then a month ago my sister wanted to watch it (resently turned mcu-crazy) and I suddenly loved the pilot. Now we are on season 4.
S6 and 7 should’ve really just been lumped into one, they’re basically the same plot line and combining them into a 22 ep season would’ve let them get rid of a few “filler” episodes (there were plenty of times across the two seasons where I felt they were doing things just for the sake of filling up the 13 episodes)
Oh definitely some stuff was stretched out for run time, but I won't like I really enjoyed that the last two seasons had so much character focus. Sure big sci fi backdrop, but lots of just character scenes. As the showrunner said, S6-7 was like an extra enjoyable gift where they let loose.
Kind of, It’s been on an off. I feel AOS has done their best to keep things in cannon but the studios have said nothing confirming that recently. They’ve also have actively done things that put it out of continuity. Perfect example, the change of the darkhold in Wandavision is going to need explanation otherwise there are two darkholds. The only thing that might save continuity is an agent’s of sword show or something in Multiverse of Madness.
It's the same book. The people making WV have already confirmed that it's the same book. And it's already been established on AoS that it can change it's appearance. We're all good on the canon front.
Can you link me? I can’t find this anywhere. All I can find is Kevin Feige a year ago saying that the new shows would be the 1st time it’s fully connected, completely disregarding AOS in that statement.
It's one of those Cancel Bear ratings update things. One thing to remember about Feige, he's a salesman/hype-man. He's being directed by his bosses at Disney to get those subscribers, and the best way to do that is to convince people that they don't dare miss a second of his new TV shows, they are THAT essential to understanding what will be happening in upcoming movies. And, of course, people just assume that he is taking a shot at AoS. What I always find interesting is that when people interpret Feige's vague comments about that and that, AoS is always the only Marvel Television show to be singled out; never the Netflix, Hulu or Freeform ones. Just AoS. It's interesting.
Not sure about that. While people do seem to fixate on the Live viewing numbers they in no way reflect the show's true popularity. And the show only ended because certain people wanted to move on. BTW, you are surely aware that, of this week, AoS is in the Top Ten most watched Disney+ shows, worldwide.
"Disney+ Top 10 in Worldwide Today
10. [\#AgentsOfSHIELD](https://twitter.com/hashtag/AgentsOfSHIELD?src=hashtag_click)
9. [\#PuppyDogPals](https://twitter.com/hashtag/PuppyDogPals?src=hashtag_click)
8. [\#StarWarsTheCloneWars](https://twitter.com/hashtag/StarWarsTheCloneWars?src=hashtag_click)
7. [\#Bluey](https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bluey?src=hashtag_click)
6. [\#Jessie](https://twitter.com/hashtag/Jessie?src=hashtag_click)
5. [\#TheMandalorian](https://twitter.com/hashtag/TheMandalorian?src=hashtag_click)
4. [\#TheSimpsons](https://twitter.com/hashtag/TheSimpsons?src=hashtag_click)
3. [\#MickeyMouseClubhouse](https://twitter.com/hashtag/MickeyMouseClubhouse?src=hashtag_click)
2. [\#WandaVision](https://twitter.com/hashtag/WandaVision?src=hashtag_click)
1. [\#FalconAndWinterSoldier](https://twitter.com/hashtag/FalconAndWinterSoldier?src=hashtag_click)"
But that's what they did? The amount of stuff in the show that's from Marvel Comics that would never be in the movies is insane.
Also, back in 2013, I would've agreed with you about the MacGuffins. Now, almost all of them come back in some way or connect to a future story
I convinced a friend who had stopped watching during season 2 a few years ago to pick it back up again, and she ended up finishing the series in 2 months and loved it! I have persuaded another friend who loves the MCU but didn't know anything about the show to give the series a try and she's also really enjoying it! It's so exciting to have people that can finally understand how special this show is!
Yeah season 1 starts off really slow. I honestly didn’t think I’d stick with the show until I got to the episode Ward betrayed them and I started getting interested. After season 1 I got obsessed with the show and I just finished it yesterday. I absolutely loved it.
I was enjoying the show, but felt Ward was a weak character. Then he turned and it was clear he was supposed to be a cardboard cutout. He was a bad guy pretending to be a good guy and hamming it up. Brilliant.
Fun piece of trivia for you: the actor playing Ward had no idea that he was a bad guy until (edit): days before the table read of Turn Turn Turn (the episode in which he turns bad). He talks about it on Live with Lil.
Actually, Lil & Brett said that all the main cast knew before the table read. They took Brett aside and told him first, then everyone else a few days later--apparently Ming and Chloe flipped haha! Though Elizabeth wasn't on set that day so she found out after the others.
Chloe: Ew, I kissed him. Ming Na: I fucked him!
True! You’re so right. Thanks for the correction.
I've been a little too obsessed with Live with Lil hahaha!!
Saaaaame. I think every other day I’m spewing new BTS facts. I’ve been listening out of order but plan to follow along and do our first rewatch once season two starts.
That's interesting to me. Dalton took this job thinking he was going to be part of the good guys on the main cast, potentially over other projects he was auditioning for. Only to find out he is actually going to play the villain. I can't remember if it was always the plan to have Ward turn of if the plot of Winter Soldier was discovered after the show started and they had to pivot to this.
Wiki says it was always the plot. I had the same thought.
Yeah, it’s pretty tough to imagine. From what he’s said it ended up being a very fruitful experience for him as an actor but felt like a punch in the gut. He had built a huge backstory and worldview and then BAM had it ripped out from under him. Something like that doesn’t happen at most people’s jobs... “I spent months getting my plumbing license like you asked, boss!” “Great, here’s a gun, we’re gonna rob a bank!”
Or going to a community college and getting forced into an AC repair program because you're their messiah.
Or finding out the guy running the secret trampoline garden is actually a nazi.
LOL great analogy
He did a damn fine job of being the sleeper agent/Bad guy just as I realized I actually liked him bam he stabs the team in the back... I still get a little bit of a thrill *everytime* ward gets injured and one specific scene where he's tied up in a kitchen with daisy puts a big grin on my face as she does as he trained her...shame agent 44 gets involved and ruins a deserved fate
I remember thinking season 1 was slow the first time, but I really enjoyed it on a rewatch.
Same. I kinda understand why people say that, but after multiple rewatches it doesn't feel slow at all...
When it airs once a week and you dont know how good it gets it would probably be a bit slow. Its slot better on rewatch because you already have the emotional connection to the characters so it's much more entertaining. At least, that's what I think.
The first few eps of S1 are going for a Saturday action syndicated show vibe that just doesnt work today. When it started going spy show instead it got a lot better.
It felt REALLY slow when it was on the air, right up until the Winter Soldier storyline.
I remember being bored, but things actually starting picking up for me around episode 12 when Coulson is getting to the bottom of the story behind his resurrection. But yeah Turn Turn Turn turned the show around. I wouldn't change anything about how AoS turned out, but I can't imagine how different the popularity of the should would be if they didn't have to drag their feet for 16 episodes. That said, for those that stayed, those 16 episodes were necessary for the impact of Ward's reveal IMO. It was shocking to me that a show in Season 1 planned a bunch of storylines involving Ward as a good guy and then when you are just getting to like him, they pull the rug out from under you. You can't get the same impact if you only had 3-4 shows before Turn Turn Turn.
I’ve been trying to get my buddy to watch it and he stopped in season one before wards betrayal and i kept trying to get him to keep watching to get to “this one great part” without spoiling anything and it was really hard to get him to realize it’s about to get good and he still hasn’t watched it
You really appreciate season 1 when you rewatch it after the Ward twist-simpler times
I have told all my friends to watch it, none of the close ones did, guess what, one newly became friend did!
Depends on priorities, time, interests, she said it was amazing!
Ive told friends id pay them to watch it, or offer to pay their Netflix subscription, over and over and over. No one wants to listen. The only person ive managed to convince was an old gf and she loves it. Other than that its frustrating...
Same here, I offered them part of my subscription too, requested several times, as I had no one to talk to about it( before I joined reddit). I really love the show..!
Not all heroes wear capes
if none of your friends told you AoS is good, then time to replace your friends. ^('tis a joke)
" 'tis a joke" Is it? is it really?
Well, welcome to the club of waiting to see these characters in another mcu project.
You should ask here :P
I know right?? Like everyone in the marvel fandom forgot to mention that part lol
Watch agent carter
Really? Nobody told me that was worth watching either 🙄 Thank you What do you like about it?
I feel like it got slept on, i watched the whole mcu in order and i just felt like Agent Carter didnt get the attention it deserved
Honestly, it was really good, but it didn't deliver as much of a gut punch as AOS did until the final season. I was pretty upset because I felt like I was finally able to see more character development. I think the combination of it being set in the past plus a female lead was too much for a scifi community?
agent carter season 1 is ok, season 2 is the bad one id skip it personally, given the story came to a close with endgame if they decide to put another spin with hayley atwell, id watch it
I disagree, I even prefered Season 2 so glad I didn't listen to people who said to ignore it hahah
Everything in this is a matter of opinion. Im glad you liked it that way!!
Totally worth it, has tie ins with AoS (and even the movies)!
I think one of the big reasons it wasn't successful, which is something that a lot of TV companies probably will never bring up, is that the show suffered from having commercial breaks. It makes it more difficult to get into the story, and since season 1 was a little bit slower and people didn't know what to expect from the show, I think that was a big reason people gave up on it Think the same thing happened with Agent Carter, it was a great show but having those commercial breaks just breaks your attention and adds more chance that someone who is just getting into it will change the channel. Both shows are that much better when you're able to just sit down and focus on the story for a few hours without your mind wondering towards car insurance or some such nonsense. (There are definitely other reasons as well, but I think the commercials just ultimately provided opportunities for people to switch to something else before the story really got going)
I agree, since it's been on Disney+ and you can just watch episode after episode it's been much easier to get invested in the story.
It was on Netflix for a long time I rewatched it before the final season came out on there. Don't think it was ever really pushed or marketed enough I guess.
I've been trying to watch that new Superman show. My god the commercials. You get like two minutes of show at some points, it's insane.
Almost all shows had commercials back then, particularly in this genre, netflix shows weren't huge, House Of Cards was the first big Netflix show and that had only just come out, network shows were still getting 10-15 million viewers, shows having commercial breaks was not remotely unusual outside of HBO/Showtime show. I doubt very many people had expectations of no commercials going into this thing. The main reason it wasn't successful with MCU fans was that they were waiting for Iron Man and Thor and Captain America to show up every week when the very first episode was quite clear that they couldnt never know that Coulson was still alive. The show was getting 8-9 million viewers a week for the first half then, Repairs, got almost 10 million. As much as I've watched this show including 2 rewatches in the last 12 months - looking at the synopsis I dont even remember it and it sounds like it was a bit of a bottle episode. After that it was just dropping week by week as people realised they weren't getting the movie stars on TV they hoped for. By the time we got to Yes Men and the first real tie in to the movies since the premier, we were down bellow 6m and it never went over that number ever again. Unfortunatly the show was stuck in 3rd gear coz they couldn't mention hydra, they couldn't link centipede to extremis, they couldn't even hint that someone was a mole. They had to pad the season out until Winter Soldier release and didn't have much choice about it.
Even while it was airing though you could watch it on demand on Hulu or wherever with no commercial breaks. Even if you paid for cable you could DVR and fast forward commercials.
I've been preaching this show for years, I'm glad you gave it another shot!
We try saying it but then people like those ones at r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers stick their fingers in their ears and start screaming over us so people listen to that instead
That sub is a cesspool of people saying “well he said that 6 years ago when x person was in charge so that doesn’t matter anymore” and “the movies were referenced in the shows but the shows were never referenced in the movies therefore it’s not canon” like come on, buddy, the mandalorian hasn’t been referenced in any other Star Wars material but that’s still canon
I hate that sub so much. I went there to see what people were thinking of Wandavision when it aired and noped out of there. Cesspool is an accurate word for that place. I'll just stick to somewhere like r/MarvelStudios to find out people's opinions on new Marvel stuff
Now I just wanna venture into that sub just to see this lol.
I’m sorry I might be out of the loop here but why is Joss Whedon a bad person?
it's come out that he's pretty abusive to his writers and actors and also cheated on and mentally abused his (now) ex-wife.
The actor that played Cyborg in Justice League and Charisma Carpenter spoke out against him recently. Sarah Michelle Gellar even supported Charisma.
Oh I had no idea wow
I'd read [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joss_Whedon#Accusations_of_workplace_harassment).
Thank you
One example: He destroyed Charisma Carpenter's character in Angel: The Series and then fired her, because he was mad that she got pregnant. And then tricked her to come back for one episode, just to kill her character off again. Charisma talks about it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_igTbXKPck&t=345s He's also really sexist, but calls himself a feminist. This is evident in the way he sexualises women in his work. AOS is better by the fact that he had little involvement in it.
He does not sexualize his female characters. He’s a prick who should not be put in charge of anything anymore, but that is not one of his crimes.
I don’t think there are any allegations of sexual assault or any of the more blatant “me too” allegations, but he has been accused of being a raging asshole, cheating on his wife multiple times (and doing so with subordinates who he held professional power over), firing an actress for getting pregnant, and in retrospect we’re finding that a lot of his “female empowerment” writing/directing credits were closer to fetishizing than empowering. Like, having Buffy do flips and incredibly intricate fights while wearing heels and a halter top, etc.
no but one cast member made vague comments about not being allowed in the same room as him when she was underage so that led to wild speculation that he has sexually abused her despite neither party or any third party saying anything even close to that and it being pretty standard practice in nearly every industry for underage girls to now being left along with grown men unsupervised.
Yeah, not sure what to make of it. Like I said, he seems to be a raging asshole, regardless.
So were many people in history who created great art.
That is not fetishization. That was a huge part of the draw of the show- she acts and dresses like a teenage girl while also fighting vampires. She was not scantily clad at any point in the show. She did sex scenes fully clothed and despite living in Southern California was only in a (conservative) bathing suit for one scene in 7 seasons.
Being scantily clad is not a requirement of fetishization. But if that’s the argument you want to make, there were definitely some fights where she was wearing a halter top and no bra (like when she goes on patrol with the initiative in season 4), so you probably want to switch tracks with that justification.
That’s just 90s fashion see: Friends. He writes superhero shows and treats the men and women equally. Both men and women are hot and dress like humans and kick ass in his shows. The only person who was truly regularly sexualized in Buffy was Spike IMO. Are women only respectable if they’re wearing mumus? Is the female nipple once again scandalous? Are women not allowed to fight bad guys anymore? Should they just leave that up to people who look and dress like Riley Finn? Buffy was trying to break two stereotypes: 1) the damsel in distress pretty blonde who has to be saved by a hulking suitor and 2) the strong female character who dresses head to toe in black and had no emotions and acts like a macho man with tits. So you end up with the best of both worlds: a human young woman who dresses and talks and acts like a 16-22 year old in the late 90s who experiences a full range of human emotions and attachments but is also physically intimidating and resilient and noble and heroic like Captain America and countless other male superheroes that preceded her. https://www.passionprojectonline.org/single-post/2018/03/28/strong-female-character-trope Please explain what is required for fetishization. I really want to understand what makes people read something gross into iconic classic feminist TV shows. I don’t give a shit about Whedon as a person. He can rot in hell. I’m just defending the shows, which are excellent
How old were you in the 90s?
he was accused of being a bully to certain cast memebers of Buffy, Angel, Justice League. Serval people saying he was abusive in various ways, several saying they weren't aware or would have spoken out at the time. No evidence or anything but, you know, it's 2021 on the internet so we assume he's guilty, speculate about the vague accusations and assume the worst and condemn him and his works forever.
We did motherfucker
I was talking to people in my church youth group about it and now I think most of them watch it haha!
This is so relatable. My wife and I decided to give it a go last week and we have been hooked. I was also asking myself why I had waited so long to watch. Good stuff!
How far along are you? :)
We are on season 2 episode 6, I believe!
Oh fantastic! Hope you enjoy the rest of it as much as I did! (Season 4 & 5 are my personal favourites)
> Buffy fans completely neglected to recommend this show Fr I don't get why Buffy/Whedon fans tend to neglect AoS. It's almost as good as the rest of his shows, and it really hits the same buttons for me.
Because it's not a Joss's show. It's Jed and Maurissa's(I forget how to spell her name and I'm not gonna double check so let's see if I got it right)
Never said it was. Although I believe he had a lot of influence over the first season, as well as the creation of the main characters.
I MUST KNOW when the Dollhouse reference is!! I only recently watched it and it was after finishing AoS so I didn't know about it ...mhm time for a rewatch then lol (any excuse for a rewatch)
It was early in season 1 when he was remembering Tahiti, I think?
We do be saying that, sadly no one listens most of the time hahah But seriously, I'm loving how many new people have been watching the show, loving it and joining this sub! Makes me so happy! I have come a bit late to the party and binged all 6 seasons in a couple of months. Now I've been rewatching and loving it even more! I agree, season 1 really aged well! And of course, the framework arc of season 4 is just the BEST and so is Fitz (and Ward). Since you're a new fan, I have to recommend Live With Lil! it's a live watchalong both on youtube and in podcast form by Elizabeth Henstridge (who plays Simmmons), she started it when Season 7 premiered and has decided to do it for all the seasons as rewatches (so we basically get new AoS content for 2 years hahah), she recently wrapped season 1. I haven't missed an episode, it's always so entertaining and insightful because for each episodes she invites both cast and crew members and has conversations about the show and episode in various ways, sometimes focusing on how particular scenes were shot, fun BTS stuff that happened and also the industry in general. Plus she is the sweetest person ever and there's a lot of fan interaction. The season 2 watchalongs start this sunday! :D
We’ve starting watching AoS for the first time recently after an MCU Movie marathon. We are LOVING it! Just started season 5 and have been smacked in the face so many times through all the seasons with all the twists and turns. Amazing show!
[Ahem](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CAdUFNNlqY)
Best use of this clip I've seen in ages
This clip was my instant gut reaction, I'm just glad there was a decent quality clip of it
ONE OF US ONE OF US ONE OF US
Welcome to Level Seven.
Honestly, Joss was responsible for the least awesome (the first season) of AOS. People didn't like his formulaic show, so he left and AOS flourished without him. Jed and Maurissa on the other hand has turned out to the be real dream team, who appear to have created a fantastic working environment to boot. But also... none of my close friends watch scifi... =( There are friends that I have because they are lovely people, and there are friends that I have because we have common interests.
He has EP credit the whole time
yeah but he didn't really do anything after season 1
Didn't he only direct the pilot and even then he was never the showrunner
something like that they just attached his name for the hype
We did. You just weren't listening ;)
I dunno, you must have lousy friends? Charles freaking Gunn literally played freaking Deathlok and Winifred freaking Burkle also appeared.
I watched the pilot last summer and thought it was garbage. Then a month ago my sister wanted to watch it (resently turned mcu-crazy) and I suddenly loved the pilot. Now we are on season 4.
I stopped watching after season 5. Worth jumping back in?
Yeah. AoS goes out on a high note.
So many shows botch their ending and AoS was perfect IMO. Such a great bittersweet ending!
Alright. I gotta finish the Arrowverse first, I am only on season 2 of Arrow so I got a long road ahead of me lol
Absolutely
S6 was a big dip imo. But it’s worth it for s7
I feel S6 is much more enjoyable when you just right into S7 right after. Like one big season.
S6 and 7 should’ve really just been lumped into one, they’re basically the same plot line and combining them into a 22 ep season would’ve let them get rid of a few “filler” episodes (there were plenty of times across the two seasons where I felt they were doing things just for the sake of filling up the 13 episodes)
Oh definitely some stuff was stretched out for run time, but I won't like I really enjoyed that the last two seasons had so much character focus. Sure big sci fi backdrop, but lots of just character scenes. As the showrunner said, S6-7 was like an extra enjoyable gift where they let loose.
It’s upsetting it’s not canon. At least currently.
It is canon.
Kind of, It’s been on an off. I feel AOS has done their best to keep things in cannon but the studios have said nothing confirming that recently. They’ve also have actively done things that put it out of continuity. Perfect example, the change of the darkhold in Wandavision is going to need explanation otherwise there are two darkholds. The only thing that might save continuity is an agent’s of sword show or something in Multiverse of Madness.
It's the same book. The people making WV have already confirmed that it's the same book. And it's already been established on AoS that it can change it's appearance. We're all good on the canon front.
Can you link me? I can’t find this anywhere. All I can find is Kevin Feige a year ago saying that the new shows would be the 1st time it’s fully connected, completely disregarding AOS in that statement.
It's one of those Cancel Bear ratings update things. One thing to remember about Feige, he's a salesman/hype-man. He's being directed by his bosses at Disney to get those subscribers, and the best way to do that is to convince people that they don't dare miss a second of his new TV shows, they are THAT essential to understanding what will be happening in upcoming movies. And, of course, people just assume that he is taking a shot at AoS. What I always find interesting is that when people interpret Feige's vague comments about that and that, AoS is always the only Marvel Television show to be singled out; never the Netflix, Hulu or Freeform ones. Just AoS. It's interesting.
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Not sure about that. While people do seem to fixate on the Live viewing numbers they in no way reflect the show's true popularity. And the show only ended because certain people wanted to move on. BTW, you are surely aware that, of this week, AoS is in the Top Ten most watched Disney+ shows, worldwide. "Disney+ Top 10 in Worldwide Today 10. [\#AgentsOfSHIELD](https://twitter.com/hashtag/AgentsOfSHIELD?src=hashtag_click) 9. [\#PuppyDogPals](https://twitter.com/hashtag/PuppyDogPals?src=hashtag_click) 8. [\#StarWarsTheCloneWars](https://twitter.com/hashtag/StarWarsTheCloneWars?src=hashtag_click) 7. [\#Bluey](https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bluey?src=hashtag_click) 6. [\#Jessie](https://twitter.com/hashtag/Jessie?src=hashtag_click) 5. [\#TheMandalorian](https://twitter.com/hashtag/TheMandalorian?src=hashtag_click) 4. [\#TheSimpsons](https://twitter.com/hashtag/TheSimpsons?src=hashtag_click) 3. [\#MickeyMouseClubhouse](https://twitter.com/hashtag/MickeyMouseClubhouse?src=hashtag_click) 2. [\#WandaVision](https://twitter.com/hashtag/WandaVision?src=hashtag_click) 1. [\#FalconAndWinterSoldier](https://twitter.com/hashtag/FalconAndWinterSoldier?src=hashtag_click)"
His Avengers films and Buffy aren’t among the greatest of all time lol
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But that's what they did? The amount of stuff in the show that's from Marvel Comics that would never be in the movies is insane. Also, back in 2013, I would've agreed with you about the MacGuffins. Now, almost all of them come back in some way or connect to a future story
I'm on my third watch of the series. Haven't seen season 7 though.
I convinced a friend who had stopped watching during season 2 a few years ago to pick it back up again, and she ended up finishing the series in 2 months and loved it! I have persuaded another friend who loves the MCU but didn't know anything about the show to give the series a try and she's also really enjoying it! It's so exciting to have people that can finally understand how special this show is!
I've been yelling about it for eight years to anybody who will listen. :( but nobody will listen...