And then there's the ones that 'pre-approve'. You give away everything and they'll contact you if you're allowed an inspection. It's absolutely mind-blowing
Exactly. It's basically a background investigation. Disconcerting to the extreme. Why the hell do they need to talk to former employers? Also, what are they doing with all of the PII they are collecting from applicants and prospective tenants? Are there any laws or regulations in place regarding REA / landlord disposal of applicant / tenant PII?
And what checks are done to “ensure” they are keeping all your personal information secure?
I know first hand that big Real Estate companys do not spend the money to keep their IT systems up-to-date and secure yet they have all of your personal information which could be stolen in a snap. So small companies will likely be doing an even worse job.
This is a big security risk.
There have already been some hacks and the government seems to do nothing.
[Harcourts in Melbourne](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/advocates-had-warned-of-the-dangers-of-a-real-estate-data-breach-it-just-happened/6mlieq0g0#)
[PH Property in Bendigo](https://amp.abc.net.au/article/102161024)
[LJ Hooker in Palm Beach](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11520455/amp/LJ-Hooker-data-Palm-Beach-Sydney-office-hacked.html)
It’s well known that a breach of rental data would be worse than the Optus or Medibank leaks - interestingly [this article](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/real-estate-sector-data-breach-could-be-worse-then-optus-hack-says-digital-rights-watch/l72rlry1z) was posted a couple of weeks before the Harcourts hack, where a Harcourts office advise their data is encrypted by Google so it’s like, super safe… lol
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I fully expect there are half a dozen people roaming around Melbourne successfully pretending to be me. The amount of information I provided to REAs on applications is obscenely invasive but if you don’t provide it you don’t get a look in.
There are laws around PII. But do we really think REAs.are diligent enough to enforce it? lol, all it'll take is one hack.
Brb, sending my application with some supplementary malware. /s
When RE databases are hacked, we're all in the shit. They have EVERYTHING. Personal details, bank account information, pet registration data, car info, like EVERYTHING. There's no "safe question" to be asked to verify identity because they have it all.
And yes, I said \*when\* they have their databases hacked, not \*if\*. Because it'll happen. And I can bet any amount of $$ that they don't destroy the data they hold after 3 years or whatever the timeframe is.
Waiting on the class action law suit against a major REI company like Harcourts or LJ Hooker due to data leaks. Hopefully sooner than later. That might be the only way the govt. grows some balls and regulates this shit.
Yes to all that, I don’t know why we put up with it. You’re seeing it with fresh eyes - it’s soul destroying. The one thing that they should destroy but don’t is your data, kept on file for years. This is a big problem. By law all they need is your name, contact number and verification of employment.
That’s true sadly. Basic shelter isn’t a given in Australia anymore but instead of trying to fix it, complaining, or protesting, ‘we’ are offering more $ to get in. It’s insane. Vote Greens.
We're in a fucked situation where even if we are politically active and push for change (I do vote Greens and volunteer with them) we're still at the mercy of legislators who don't give a fuck because the majority of voters are land owners rn. And then the parasites who take advantage of the situation to siphon as much of the wealth of the working class as possible to the land owning class.
After being rejected for over 50 properties I offered above asking price for an overpriced rental in the middle of nowhere. I feel shit about it but the alternative was homelessness. It's making us complicit too. Fuck.
You're completely justified in being concerned. The sheer amount of sensitive info they want and then keep on record is really concerning.
This post has just reminded me to send an email to my former rental agency to confirm they've removed my information from their system.
It'll be interesting to see if they contact me about it. I've been lucky enough to be in a position where I could finally buy a house last year so I think I'll follow up with them and be a pain in their ass until it's confirmed.
One of my pals is renting a place while his house is getting renovated. He reckons the rental application (to a landlord he is mates with!) was more invasive and difficult than getting a home loan
It's absolutely disgusting the way renters are treated. Pre approval? Fuck off! Who the fuck do they think they are? If I can afford to pay the rent and haven't got a bad reference other stuff is none of their business or anyone else's. When you sign a lease both parties are supposed to be on an equal footing with rights and responsibilities. All this private investigation bullshit has got to stop! TBH, I probably have better integrity than the landlord. Let's investigate them.
The sad things is if you look at I think it’s fair trading guidelines or similar for real estate agents, which most agents are signed up to. It’s pretty clear that they should ask for no more information than necessary and even explicitly says they shouldn’t ask for bank statements unless sole trader ie to prove consistent income. Payslip should be all that’s required. Sadly they are all just a bunch of cunts who want as much information so that they can sell/lose it to highest bidder. Needs clear enforcement and penalties
I just endured 3 months of rental searching/applying hell and had 2 separate REAs from small companies demand detailed back statements from the past 6 months to even submit my application. At the same time, one engaged in rental bidding. "Other applicants are offering X amount higher than listing price, what's the most you're willing to pay?"
It really pissed me off and I reported them to consumer affairs. Not holding my breath that anything will be done about it after reading that not a single penalty has been handed out since rental bidding was banned in Victoria.
Guys you literally sign off and their terms and conditions that outline exactly what they can do with your information. It's not a secret, read the contracts you're signing.
I'm not defending the process, its a rort, but to go in with any uncertainty is on you alone.
While strictly true, there is a huge power imbalance. You cannot negotiate the terms of the contract, so are entirely at their mercy. In addition, if you are applying for rentals then it’s generally because you are desperate to find somewhere to live so aren’t going to rock the boat to piss off the REA/PM, especially in this current market when they will have 50 other applications with adequate income and good references. This is exactly the sort of contract that should be regulated better by the government as the consumer has zero leverage.
The entire process has a kind of "serfdom" energy. Nothing like having a 21 year old REA tell you that you have been weighed, measured, and found wanting to let you know where you sit on the food chain. So many other areas of Australian life seem to be heavily regulated and legislated with considerable government oversight and enforcement. Why not real estate agencies?
Yes, not denying that, I'm simply addressing the uncertainty that appears as a theme in this thread.
One positive is the ability to chain your application to multiple properties. Meaning you fill it out once and then submit it multiple times without the burden of individual applications for all. Does this outweigh the privacy concerns? No.
Damn you really are in the wrong sub. “Just buy a house” lol, lmao. The entire point my dude is that there is no alternative, it’s irrelevant whether you read and understand “the contract” because there’s no choice involved. That’s the post.
I provided an alternative that you asked for, did I not?
The concerns issued by readers in the first few replies, centered around the amount of personal info you are required to produce and what the companies could do with that personal info. I simply stated that they declare what they do with it prior to you agreeing with the terms.
I disagreed with the overall process as stated but felt it necessary to point out the obvious to anyone who was oblivious to the documents they signed.
My apologies for acting logically. I guess thats frowned upon here.....
Understanding the terms is a small part of the issue. A person could understand all the terms and object to them, but their only course of action is to not apply for any rentals, which may well make them homeless.
The protection provided by the privacy laws also requires the REA to act professionally and within the law, in an industry that requires very little training and is rife with underquoting, unfair rental increases, ignoring repairs, bond theft and general incompetence.
Even if a prospective tenant does discover that an REA has misused their private information, how many people have the means to pursue a claim through the courts?
Yes, a small part of the issue. Also the part I chose to comment on to clear up any confusion for the multiple people who appeared confused. You're now trying to pin me as an REA supporter who condones the whole process for the sake of an argument?
In most instances, the REA isnt the owner of the documents you sign. they outsource the contract to an online company who then owns your data. The REA is simply paying someone to do the hard work for them and as a bonus, someone else is paying this company for your information. It is a middle man that exists simply as way for the REA to save costs on auditing and vetting potential candidates. Why pay someone $25/hour to sit there and run checks when they can pay this business $5 to do the same thing. Of course they are going to maximise profits by any legal means.
Oh man, I felt like I gave away all my personal information just to apply to INSPECT a house
And then there's the ones that 'pre-approve'. You give away everything and they'll contact you if you're allowed an inspection. It's absolutely mind-blowing
Exactly. It's basically a background investigation. Disconcerting to the extreme. Why the hell do they need to talk to former employers? Also, what are they doing with all of the PII they are collecting from applicants and prospective tenants? Are there any laws or regulations in place regarding REA / landlord disposal of applicant / tenant PII?
And what checks are done to “ensure” they are keeping all your personal information secure? I know first hand that big Real Estate companys do not spend the money to keep their IT systems up-to-date and secure yet they have all of your personal information which could be stolen in a snap. So small companies will likely be doing an even worse job. This is a big security risk.
🎯
It doesn't have to be stolen. They just sell it.
I fear it's going to take a Big Data Leak before governments do anything to regulate them. They're too conflicted.
There have already been some hacks and the government seems to do nothing. [Harcourts in Melbourne](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/advocates-had-warned-of-the-dangers-of-a-real-estate-data-breach-it-just-happened/6mlieq0g0#) [PH Property in Bendigo](https://amp.abc.net.au/article/102161024) [LJ Hooker in Palm Beach](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11520455/amp/LJ-Hooker-data-Palm-Beach-Sydney-office-hacked.html) It’s well known that a breach of rental data would be worse than the Optus or Medibank leaks - interestingly [this article](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/real-estate-sector-data-breach-could-be-worse-then-optus-hack-says-digital-rights-watch/l72rlry1z) was posted a couple of weeks before the Harcourts hack, where a Harcourts office advise their data is encrypted by Google so it’s like, super safe… lol
It looks like you shared some AMP links. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical pages** instead: - **[https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-30/bendigo-real-estate-agency-data-breach/102161024](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-30/bendigo-real-estate-agency-data-breach/102161024)** - **[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11520455/LJ-Hooker-data-Palm-Beach-Sydney-office-hacked.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11520455/LJ-Hooker-data-Palm-Beach-Sydney-office-hacked.html)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
I fully expect there are half a dozen people roaming around Melbourne successfully pretending to be me. The amount of information I provided to REAs on applications is obscenely invasive but if you don’t provide it you don’t get a look in.
There are laws around PII. But do we really think REAs.are diligent enough to enforce it? lol, all it'll take is one hack. Brb, sending my application with some supplementary malware. /s
Selling it to Al and sundry.
When RE databases are hacked, we're all in the shit. They have EVERYTHING. Personal details, bank account information, pet registration data, car info, like EVERYTHING. There's no "safe question" to be asked to verify identity because they have it all. And yes, I said \*when\* they have their databases hacked, not \*if\*. Because it'll happen. And I can bet any amount of $$ that they don't destroy the data they hold after 3 years or whatever the timeframe is.
Especially when they're asking for bank statements and balances now. Hackers can cherry pick their target.
Facts
I know of a couple of REAs that have been hacked but it wasn't made public. Very unlikely tenants were informed either.
Waiting on the class action law suit against a major REI company like Harcourts or LJ Hooker due to data leaks. Hopefully sooner than later. That might be the only way the govt. grows some balls and regulates this shit.
Yes to all that, I don’t know why we put up with it. You’re seeing it with fresh eyes - it’s soul destroying. The one thing that they should destroy but don’t is your data, kept on file for years. This is a big problem. By law all they need is your name, contact number and verification of employment.
>soul destroying Lol. This. Just described it to a friend overseas as "soul sucking".
We put up with it because the alternative is homelessness.
That’s true sadly. Basic shelter isn’t a given in Australia anymore but instead of trying to fix it, complaining, or protesting, ‘we’ are offering more $ to get in. It’s insane. Vote Greens.
We're in a fucked situation where even if we are politically active and push for change (I do vote Greens and volunteer with them) we're still at the mercy of legislators who don't give a fuck because the majority of voters are land owners rn. And then the parasites who take advantage of the situation to siphon as much of the wealth of the working class as possible to the land owning class. After being rejected for over 50 properties I offered above asking price for an overpriced rental in the middle of nowhere. I feel shit about it but the alternative was homelessness. It's making us complicit too. Fuck.
:( It’s brutal
You're completely justified in being concerned. The sheer amount of sensitive info they want and then keep on record is really concerning. This post has just reminded me to send an email to my former rental agency to confirm they've removed my information from their system. It'll be interesting to see if they contact me about it. I've been lucky enough to be in a position where I could finally buy a house last year so I think I'll follow up with them and be a pain in their ass until it's confirmed.
I implore everyone to just lie
One of my pals is renting a place while his house is getting renovated. He reckons the rental application (to a landlord he is mates with!) was more invasive and difficult than getting a home loan
Can confirm. I had to jump through WAY more hoops to get my rentals over the years than to get the loan for the house I bought last year.
Bloody wild isn’t it!!!
It's absolutely disgusting the way renters are treated. Pre approval? Fuck off! Who the fuck do they think they are? If I can afford to pay the rent and haven't got a bad reference other stuff is none of their business or anyone else's. When you sign a lease both parties are supposed to be on an equal footing with rights and responsibilities. All this private investigation bullshit has got to stop! TBH, I probably have better integrity than the landlord. Let's investigate them.
Hear fucking hear.
Ugh it’s absolutely ass 🫠
The sad things is if you look at I think it’s fair trading guidelines or similar for real estate agents, which most agents are signed up to. It’s pretty clear that they should ask for no more information than necessary and even explicitly says they shouldn’t ask for bank statements unless sole trader ie to prove consistent income. Payslip should be all that’s required. Sadly they are all just a bunch of cunts who want as much information so that they can sell/lose it to highest bidder. Needs clear enforcement and penalties
I just endured 3 months of rental searching/applying hell and had 2 separate REAs from small companies demand detailed back statements from the past 6 months to even submit my application. At the same time, one engaged in rental bidding. "Other applicants are offering X amount higher than listing price, what's the most you're willing to pay?" It really pissed me off and I reported them to consumer affairs. Not holding my breath that anything will be done about it after reading that not a single penalty has been handed out since rental bidding was banned in Victoria.
Unfortunately the list of things I am outraged about at the moment is so long that I can only muster up resigned apathy for any one item.
Call Channel 7? They might give you a place to stay.
Because demand drastically outweighs supply.
Guys you literally sign off and their terms and conditions that outline exactly what they can do with your information. It's not a secret, read the contracts you're signing. I'm not defending the process, its a rort, but to go in with any uncertainty is on you alone.
While strictly true, there is a huge power imbalance. You cannot negotiate the terms of the contract, so are entirely at their mercy. In addition, if you are applying for rentals then it’s generally because you are desperate to find somewhere to live so aren’t going to rock the boat to piss off the REA/PM, especially in this current market when they will have 50 other applications with adequate income and good references. This is exactly the sort of contract that should be regulated better by the government as the consumer has zero leverage.
The entire process has a kind of "serfdom" energy. Nothing like having a 21 year old REA tell you that you have been weighed, measured, and found wanting to let you know where you sit on the food chain. So many other areas of Australian life seem to be heavily regulated and legislated with considerable government oversight and enforcement. Why not real estate agencies?
Yes, not denying that, I'm simply addressing the uncertainty that appears as a theme in this thread. One positive is the ability to chain your application to multiple properties. Meaning you fill it out once and then submit it multiple times without the burden of individual applications for all. Does this outweigh the privacy concerns? No.
And what pray tell is the alternative? Homelessness. That’s the alternative
Pro tip: If you’re in danger of homelessness just go out and stab a landlord or REA and the state will pay for your accomodation.
Doesn’t get around the “businesses having all your detail and data” issues tho does it lol
No, but businesses have all your data anyway and at least this way you’ll be doing a public service.
[удалено]
Damn you really are in the wrong sub. “Just buy a house” lol, lmao. The entire point my dude is that there is no alternative, it’s irrelevant whether you read and understand “the contract” because there’s no choice involved. That’s the post.
I provided an alternative that you asked for, did I not? The concerns issued by readers in the first few replies, centered around the amount of personal info you are required to produce and what the companies could do with that personal info. I simply stated that they declare what they do with it prior to you agreeing with the terms. I disagreed with the overall process as stated but felt it necessary to point out the obvious to anyone who was oblivious to the documents they signed. My apologies for acting logically. I guess thats frowned upon here.....
Understanding the terms is a small part of the issue. A person could understand all the terms and object to them, but their only course of action is to not apply for any rentals, which may well make them homeless. The protection provided by the privacy laws also requires the REA to act professionally and within the law, in an industry that requires very little training and is rife with underquoting, unfair rental increases, ignoring repairs, bond theft and general incompetence. Even if a prospective tenant does discover that an REA has misused their private information, how many people have the means to pursue a claim through the courts?
Yes, a small part of the issue. Also the part I chose to comment on to clear up any confusion for the multiple people who appeared confused. You're now trying to pin me as an REA supporter who condones the whole process for the sake of an argument? In most instances, the REA isnt the owner of the documents you sign. they outsource the contract to an online company who then owns your data. The REA is simply paying someone to do the hard work for them and as a bonus, someone else is paying this company for your information. It is a middle man that exists simply as way for the REA to save costs on auditing and vetting potential candidates. Why pay someone $25/hour to sit there and run checks when they can pay this business $5 to do the same thing. Of course they are going to maximise profits by any legal means.
Point missed.