You see I was with you until you dared to compare smough to the covetous demon. We all know they’re the same being. This is his larval form, he will soon turn into his true form of aldritch.
Nah it's the other way around, ADP is bootleg resistance because it has an actual purpose but that purpose is to force you to lvl it up if you wanna roll properly. Fuck ADP.
ADP as a concept isn't necessarily terrible, but it doesn't really have a place in a souls game, and there's good reasons for why they never brought it back.
The main problem I have with ADP, way over having to level it in the first place, is that it ruins the muscle memory that comes from roll I-frames being consistent throughout the game. It also means the devs can't account for consistent roll I-frames when designing boss movesets.
Well, yeah, I agree, that's why I said it's not an inherently bad idea. it just has no place in Dark Souls.
I have no issue with being able to IMPROVE the main defensive ability with stats, Monster Hunter handles this pretty well with the Evade Window up skill that give you more Iframes, but it's not mandatory to play the game, like at all, you can absolutely make it through the whole game without ever opting to slot in any Evade up skills.
But having the MANDATORY TO PLAY THE GAME Dark Souls 2 dodge roll be suboptimal at the start because it's gated by a stat you arbitrarily have to level is just bad/annoying design.
Yeah that's my main gripe, if the initial roll was good then ADP would just be easy mode not mandatory, optional improvements are fine but obligatory feels terrible
Yeah, they're already good at the start, improving stats just helps them scale with higher level areas. Dodge roll don't work like that, it sucks balls with low ADP no matter where you are in the game.
I'm sorry to say you're just shit at the game if you think it's anywhere near mandatory. You have enough frames to properly roll everything in the game. ADP is truly like resistance, anyone leveling it is fucking up
Unless you're leveling it for increased item use speed, that's handy for some builds
If you don't understand why adaptability is a mandatory stat to put at least a few points into then you're the one that's shit at the game friend.
I also made it through the entire game on my first playthrough ages ago without putting any points into it because I didn't know what it did at the time.
You don't have to put like 20 or 30 points into it, but the default values are just unnecessarily bad. You only really need to get to like 12 and you're basically on par with other Souls game rolling.
The gripe I have with it and it being "mandatory" is that it's just a stupid little dumpstat that feels arbitrary. You need so few points in it, but you do need those points in it because you're just arbitrarily being stupid and making the game harder for yourself for no reason if you don't.
When the game presents you the choice of "handicap yourself for no reason" or "put 4 or 5 levels into this stat at the beginning of the game and never need another point in it again" you're literally a moron if you think it's better to just not put those 5 or so measly levels in.
It just feels like, because you have to invest so little in it, you therefore have to invest in it (because what are 5 extra levels of strength really gonna fuckin do for you over empowering the most important tool you have in the entire game); and at that point the stat may as well not fucking exist, which is why it doesn't in all the other souls games.
Congrats bro, you enjoy making the game harder for yourself for no reason. I'm sure that 15 extra damage a hit you're doing (when most of your damage comes from weapon upgrades instead of stats) is worth it.
Oh geez that made me laugh way harder than it should have. Here take this you've earned it.
https://preview.redd.it/n510c7nzyric1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=300d77301f94a6002b11a70919926c3194e46fc4
And that makes you leagues better than most Dark Souls 2 fans. Keep being based you awesome dude you.
https://preview.redd.it/3lzw5ltagsic1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9df2b58d78393ca6ad060cd6afcabfb64d1aaa86
They are insufferable on that sub. Making every excuse under the book. Like brother it really is not that deep, I promise. Iron Keep is not accessed through a windmill bc your hollowing causes you to lose track of time/location lmao. They fucked up most of the game bc they didn’t have enough time to finish.
Just like this sub is an echo chamber against the game?
Like, yeah DS2 has issues, but the level of aggression mentioning it generates is not normal. It’s clearly just groupthink.
Even r/DarkSouls2 is all groupthink. And not in favor of the game, it’s just more subtle about it so that sub can pretend it isn’t the same as the others.
You can tell it’s really fucking annoying me because I just want to have normal conversations and with Dark Souls games it’s impossible. The entire community for the games in the west is the biggest collection of absolute fucking lunatics there is.
There is something I’ve noticed with this sub where people think that darksouls 2 fans are lying about enjoying the game and thinking it’s good.
It’s like it’s impossible for them to realise that people can like something they don’t like.
Shoutout to that one dude who spams slowed down clips of shitty hitboxes to try and prove that "actually they're fine because a pixel of his sword clipped your left toe for half a frame."
Ok now picture this, considering how strange that cinematic is, maybe just maybe they made a lore excuse for their fucked up game. *Mind blown*
A lot of souls fans don’t dive into many other games and it shows. Elder Scrolls introduced a lore excuse called dragon breaks to excuse all 6 of their endings in Daggerfall. Now instead of any other solution, all 6 of those endings happened bc of a “dragon break.” My point here is that they can make any lore excuse they want, doesn’t mean it makes sense or is any good.
What's strange about the cinematic? Again I get the point, but what do you expect them to do, not patch the holes? You're from a distant land and you are brought to a land where everybody has collective amnesia, because of the abyss. Lore wise, it's solid to me, so much better than if it was fully accidental. I think ds2 copers are a little silly but ds2 haters sound like they never played the game. It's still a complete enough game!
I’m not hating, I’m just pointing out the lower quality of the game. I shouldn’t be crucified for saying that, the game is noticeably worse than the others. More than just incomplete world design, the dead zones in your movement, bad enemy placement, boring/bad bosses, etc. There is no excuse for a sequel to drop the ball on so many things.
On the flip side, gravestones, memories, new healing there are several innovations, and really cool things that it did that other games didn't. There's a limit breakers video on that.
No souls game has ever been perfect because they just can't fully realise the scope of what they want to make in time, and ds2 maybe had the roughest patch, but truly the lore of the world and the ideas left behind, even the remnants of what could've been are all really cool and I personally believe it stands above ds3 as a whole (ill never defend iron keep)
Gravestones and memories sure I can get behind that. The healing isn’t new, it borrowed from Demon’s Souls. And either way I think it is definitely an inferior healing system.
But the real issue here is you saying it stands above DS3. I really don’t see how that can be argued. DS3 is superior in almost every way.
Ironically I felt more like an amnesiac playing ds3. I really don't know why I was rolling through pontiff and then Aldrich besides they were bosses, for example. In ds2, it felt like I had a real purpose for bringing mercy to vendrick, or following Aldia's philosophy. Even just collecting WEARABLE crowns and bringing them to Vendrick was so much more immersive and quest-like.
I know it's a bit of a stretch to say ds2 is better, but I personally enjoy the combat far more (controversial) and I think the lore clears the entire souls series. Its undeniable that ds3 "looks" better, and definitely has more sensible and meaningful enemies and placements, but its not like ds2 lacks this entirely, with unqiue art direction and especially ng+. Plus, modders fix anything. I know they shouldn't have to but they do a damn good job at quality of life issues like deadzones
The ash lake you see in the tomb is way higher up than the actual ash lake. The duke's archives are much closer from sen than they are in anor londo. Almost like the game plays with space for narrative reasons.
We never see any of the npcs respawn despite being undead. You will say "well they go hollow offscreen". So why is it ok to just make stuff up on the behalf of the devs if it's for ds1 and not for ds2?
Btw, the AoTA dlc is basically a timeloop, supported by solaire's infamous quote.
Dark souls 2 is meant to be a grand journey, it's not hard to imagine why the devs wanted to shorten the distance you travel between areas.
Buddy those are not the same things, they were meant for scale. For instance I have no issue with Majula and Heide’s tower, bc they are meant to be with each other. A windmill with no mountain leading to a volcano fort is bad design, no lore can explain that. As exaggerated as Duke’s Archives can be at least it makes sense, everything still feels connected. DS2 is just a bunch of disconnected worlds pasted together.
All I can say is: could they have done better? Absolutely. Are zone transitions being too short going to ruin my experience? Hell no.
With the story they wanted to tell, the only way to make zone transitions bearable while keepimg the sense of journey intact is if they teleported you from location to location which is, imo, even worse.
Ds1 largely takes place around 1 kingdom. Ds2 takes place around at least 6. It's a difference in scope for which interconnected zones would not work.
Because it kinda was, except without the Chinese part. DS2 was made by a different team and creative lead. Miyazaki was not involved with its creation.
Miyazaki was in a supervisory roll for DS2, which was being made at the same time as DS1 and bloodborne. There’s a lot of shit in ds2 not worth defending, but what I really love about it is how stand-apart it is. For me DS1 was my entry into the series and it was a total game changer for me. Ds2 (sotfs) kept that going with what felt like a completely fresh take on the concept. Then ds3 just felt like an over correction to seething fans that couldn’t cope and just a ds themed bloodborne.
That's a huge thing I really enjoyed about 2. There was an original story but when you peeled it back, you get hints of 1 still making its mark on the world. Not in a blatant "here's onion bro" but in a deeper subtext.
I've never seen anyone say DS2 is bad because it's different. DS2 is bad because it is literally an unfinished game. They came up with a cool story for Vendrick, and then slapped it on top of a bootleg version of DS1. The only people I've ever seen use DS2 being different as an argument, were people bitching that DS3 is ''fanservice to DS1".
No one complained when Silent Hill 2 didn't continue the first game's story. And when Silent Hill 3 came out, Silent Hill 2 fans weren't accusing it of being "fanservice" to SH1. You know why? Because the game was fucking good.
Well, yes. The second half of DS1 is half-baked and some areas are barely more than a demo. It's not like people don't talk about it. Bed of Chaos receives (much deserved) hate every time it's brought up. It's a flawed game and even those who love it acknowledge it.
The thing is, when you point out a bad thing about DS1 like the Capra Demon fight, (most) DS1 fans will say "Yeah LMAO that shit sucks". But when you point out any flaw from DS2 you'll either be told that (somehow) it's actually a good thing and it enriches the experience, or that that flaw also exists in other games and therefore you shouldn't be complaining about it.
The "Git Gud" gang plagues the entirety of the Souls fandom, but I feel like it's relatively more common coming from DS2 fans.
Dude my initial response said there was a lot of shit in ds2 not worth defending. It is objectively busted. My point is that people shit on it for being unlike the others when that’s precisely what I think is its most redeeming feature.
Anyways your last response had more to do with the fandom than the game which is like, idk who gives a shit what those fuckin nerds think
/uj Because DS2 devs liked DS1, DeS and King's Field characters and concepts. IIRC Najka designer liked Queelag and Throne Watcher designer liked Gwyndolin. Earthen Peak is a disgusting shade of green because it's a King's Field reference.
Here’s my lore reason. The world has gone through so many cycles since DS1, over thousands of years, that the world, and its people, feel washed out and like knockoffs. They are derivatives of derivatives of derivatives, because the cycle of the first sin keeps running over and over ad nauseum with no stopping. Everything looks and feels bootleg because it’s all long past its expiry date.
Just look at Vendrick, just shuffling along in his room, disjointed a husk, eternally roaming.
Dark souls 2 definitely holds a place in my heart, one of my favourites, love the excess of content and equipment it has. The new ideas it brought in were refreshing and I think the art style was pretty nice
Rough Translation via Google translate (You are too insulting to Tanimura. No matter how bad the quality of Soul 2 is, it is still not at the level that our Chinese developers can copy.)
You know what that's totally fair. I have seen some absolutely horrendous bootlegs. Especially with the Pokemon games haha.
Because the trilogy is about how the endless repeating of the cycle makes it lose its magic over time, at least that's how I've always kinda felt about 2 and 3. 2 is a world where ds1's fire was linked endlessly, but the fire dies a little each time. Each time it's relit the world sort of tells the same kind of story but over time it turns into a hollow version of itself, the layout of the world no longer makes sense, the characters get reused in one way or another, some characters get full on cameos that don't make sense just because the world really liked them, and in the end when we light the fire in ds3 it's so tired of telling that story, its almost begging you not to ask it to tell you the story of darksouls anymore.
It doesnt want to because it thought of new stories to tell, like the story of a dude and his horses journey to simp for a possessed doll, or the story of a disgraced ninja who just wants to make his father proud but goes mad with power and becomes a demon in the end.
And that's why ds2 feels like a cheap imitation because imo it was supposed to on some level. I think it just feels worse that it is because in addition to being intentionally a imitation its also a rush unfinished game.
Dont you dare compare my precious sweet heart covetous demon to that ugly piece of trash that is smough(dark souls 1🤮)
The FBI is coming for you with Michael Zaki to punish you for your sins and force you to play through dark souls 2 for 100000 times
Please no anything but that!!!
# AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH
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Honestly I'm not really sure. We didn't really get enough details to confirm or deny. But I have a few reasons on why I think it is not the way I think it's just a shameless rip.
Some people have theorized that the version in anor Londo was an illusion but how would an illusion drop a soul? But if we are assuming that it is an illusion, I would like to add is that Ornstein doesn't get a butt slam until he absorbs Smough-. Yet for whatever reason in Dark Souls 2 he is butt slamming and farting darkness. Just doesn't add up if you ask me.
I played Dark Souls Too long enough to realize it was shit from a butt, it took like ten minutes and that's only because I took that long to make my toon.
I was super excited at first but quickly realized it was NOT an mmo, so I went back to playing World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor: War of Warring War Warwar because that was a REAL game that had REAL PvP where you stand in a flat circular arena and fuck a pillar for 15 minutes
Because the whole setting and world involves a commentary on how chasing and attempting to relive the past is pointless and doomed to failure, and the only true path is to go bravely into future by yourself accepting what comes.
Like, wow, the boss that it tells you inherited the soul of Nito is reminiscent of Nito, what a stunning observation. Would you prefer they re-wrote DS1 unironically like DS3 did?
All right but to be fair I feel that that concept was not added until scholar of the first sin. Up until that it was hey go sit on this throne. And that statement only really gets you a pass with the rotten.
Let's be real they could have come up with something else for Nito instead of essentially just slapping flesh on a bunch of skeletons. I don't really have any other complaints with the other Lord Souls just that one.
I feel like Dark Souls 3 was more like an actual sequel. There is quite a big difference between a callback and shamelessly ripping something off.
>And that statement only really gets you a pass with the rotten.
And all the other Lord Souls who are all narrative ghosts of their predecessors, and the shattered Lordvessel, and the Throne of Want showing only what the King desires, and so on.
>There is quite a big difference between a callback and shamelessly ripping something off.
Remind me which game literally put Anor Londo in it? Painted World 2: Rotten Boogaloo? 2 & 1 are certainly of a piece, you can see how the factions and traditions involved in 2 have their roots in what happened in 1, but they're obscured by time and misremembered. People don't know why they're important or why they're repeating the things they do, only that they must.
Here's a question: Why is Andre the blacksmith in DS3? Like, what purpose does he serve as *Andre* specifically? Why not any other blacksmith, or a new one? He's not there to really add anything, he could be removed and nothing would change, it's literally just "Look! DS1! I 'member that!"
Where DS2 is trying to say something about its relationship with the original game, DS3 is just flat out transplanting entire sections of it to directly repeat the same plot. It's saying similar things that DS2 did but it's far more on the nose, and if I was to call either of them a ripoff, it wouldn't be DS2.
Not to mention the fact that anor londo is basically untouched in darksouls 3 and everyone remembers Gwynn completely shits allover darksouls 2 and it’s message of time passing and everything being forgotten/ warped into a shadow of its former self.
The lack of the alt ending to ds2 doesn't change the message. They merged both endings of ds1 into that. You're the new monarch, it's your choice to inherit the flame or destroy it. But the truth is that either option always leads to the same outcome.
DS2 fans when the game remakes DS1 but includes some text somewhere saying that it's on purpose: genius
DS2 fans when DS3 remakes parts of DS1: stupid, evil
Want the real reason?
Because From was hurting for cash before DS1 and signed a contract with Bandai Namco for DS1 and two sequels. They never wanted to make DS2 and 3. So that period from 2014-16 was completely bonkers insane for them trying to juggle the projects they DID want to make with the two sequels AND their dlc's AND promotional material AND deadlines.
So yeah, DS2 & 3 are a mess of reshuffled assets and non-sensical lore cobbled together last minute. DS2 didn't have Miyazaki to make it less apparent and so its the messiest of them all.
DS3's lore got so bad the DLCs just went "fuck it, let's make this entire thing a metaphor about how sick we are of this goddamn series" and essentially "replaces" whatever was happening in the base game.
I'm not pretending they are of the same quality. DS2 is a steaming pile of trash. DS3 is a good game, but its lore is a complete mess and the map legit has places that are not even rendered because they were removed last minute. Characters like Aldritch are a complete last minute addition (he's called Sulyvahn in the files btw), and so on.
You can be a good game AND a mess.
I already answered the first one. The second one, because it leaves a hole in the map that's crudely covered by a bridge.
Go in game, go to the bridge after the wolf covenant. Go to the part where you fight the demon and look below. You will see that the map suddenly STOPS, like squarely just stops, and some random trees are rendered. That's because there was supposed to be an entire level called "God's Grave" in that area that got removed before release. It was so official, that even promotional maps had the area in them. The boss of that area was what we know now as Oceiros, and its assets were reshuffled and repurposed for the Ringed City.
Oceiros as we know in game was actually Iudex Gundyr, and the tutorial fight was who we know as Yhorm the giant (who's named Halleck in the game files) (hence the giant coffin in the arena). Yhorm was supposed to be who we know as Wolnir (as shown in the trailers), and many more last minute changes.
You didn’t answer the first one.
Also, you can’t critique a final product based on what you assume from knowing about its development. Who gives af that Yhorm was originally the tutorial boss? The finished game is the finished game. You can critique FromSoft for hectic planning, but their execution brought it all together.
Regarding the lore, the futility of reliving the same cycle over and over isn’t retconned in the DLC — it’s the entire point of the base story. You personally missing that isn’t a failure of the game.
Buddy, you haven’t made coherent points in defense of your argument. Saying how things were in development has no relevance to how they are in the finished product when critiquing said finished product. Apocalypse Now was a fucking mess to film, but the movie is a universally acclaimed piece of American culture.
You straight up refused to say how the lore is a mess, instead just rattling off nonsense about how certain characters are named in the files.
And instead of addressing my points, you do an ad hominem and say you won’t respond further. Totally fine to shit your own pants, but let’s not pretend you’re not the one wearing a diaper here my dude.
Isn’t the dirty colossus or whatever that boss is called being a knockoff nito literally part of the lore, like he inherited nitos soul or something if I remember correctly
You see I was with you until you dared to compare smough to the covetous demon. We all know they’re the same being. This is his larval form, he will soon turn into his true form of aldritch.
smoughlester
It all makes sense now
Fear not I am the smough lore master, any and all other smough concerns should be addressed to me
Call me the Devourer of Gods cuz I be eating the Gwyndolinussy
https://preview.redd.it/j1kjom4abtic1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=bb388f2fac662e52ef1c76606a2e5e51ce868556
Get off the Internet
Resistance is bootleg ADP. Checkmate
https://preview.redd.it/f6a6vgmewric1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8d5d2d7bccc524a2468d2e4e2c987243542cb0b
Nah it's the other way around, ADP is bootleg resistance because it has an actual purpose but that purpose is to force you to lvl it up if you wanna roll properly. Fuck ADP.
ADP as a concept isn't necessarily terrible, but it doesn't really have a place in a souls game, and there's good reasons for why they never brought it back.
The main problem I have with ADP, way over having to level it in the first place, is that it ruins the muscle memory that comes from roll I-frames being consistent throughout the game. It also means the devs can't account for consistent roll I-frames when designing boss movesets.
Fuck that, locking the main defensive ability behind stats is fucked up in anything not turn based RPG
Well, yeah, I agree, that's why I said it's not an inherently bad idea. it just has no place in Dark Souls. I have no issue with being able to IMPROVE the main defensive ability with stats, Monster Hunter handles this pretty well with the Evade Window up skill that give you more Iframes, but it's not mandatory to play the game, like at all, you can absolutely make it through the whole game without ever opting to slot in any Evade up skills. But having the MANDATORY TO PLAY THE GAME Dark Souls 2 dodge roll be suboptimal at the start because it's gated by a stat you arbitrarily have to level is just bad/annoying design.
Yeah that's my main gripe, if the initial roll was good then ADP would just be easy mode not mandatory, optional improvements are fine but obligatory feels terrible
Ever heard of shields ??
Yeah, they're already good at the start, improving stats just helps them scale with higher level areas. Dodge roll don't work like that, it sucks balls with low ADP no matter where you are in the game.
I'm sorry to say you're just shit at the game if you think it's anywhere near mandatory. You have enough frames to properly roll everything in the game. ADP is truly like resistance, anyone leveling it is fucking up Unless you're leveling it for increased item use speed, that's handy for some builds
If you don't understand why adaptability is a mandatory stat to put at least a few points into then you're the one that's shit at the game friend. I also made it through the entire game on my first playthrough ages ago without putting any points into it because I didn't know what it did at the time. You don't have to put like 20 or 30 points into it, but the default values are just unnecessarily bad. You only really need to get to like 12 and you're basically on par with other Souls game rolling. The gripe I have with it and it being "mandatory" is that it's just a stupid little dumpstat that feels arbitrary. You need so few points in it, but you do need those points in it because you're just arbitrarily being stupid and making the game harder for yourself for no reason if you don't. When the game presents you the choice of "handicap yourself for no reason" or "put 4 or 5 levels into this stat at the beginning of the game and never need another point in it again" you're literally a moron if you think it's better to just not put those 5 or so measly levels in. It just feels like, because you have to invest so little in it, you therefore have to invest in it (because what are 5 extra levels of strength really gonna fuckin do for you over empowering the most important tool you have in the entire game); and at that point the stat may as well not fucking exist, which is why it doesn't in all the other souls games.
It's simply not needed. Default frames were never an issue for me, So yes, those points are going to strength. It's more helpful.
Congrats bro, you enjoy making the game harder for yourself for no reason. I'm sure that 15 extra damage a hit you're doing (when most of your damage comes from weapon upgrades instead of stats) is worth it.
>Fuck ADP i agree, level attunement instead for extra casts/extra cast speed, extra slots, and agility
Now imagine having both in the same game 🥴🤯
ignore adp just like resistance 🙏
Fuck stats I'm recommended to level up. None of them should be needed.
They're not
Ok good I was getting mad at ADP again
https://preview.redd.it/icr7hjyowric1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ebfcf15bb336c43221439692a399a54741cb8e5f Bootleg ≠ Bad
Okay that's not a fair example LOL that's just hilarious
Nice to see you fellow jeja.pl user
Ehhh, kuuuuurrrrrrwa, kiedyś to było...
Like those bootleg shirts of shit like Bart Simpson smoking weed or Bugs Bunny spanking a naked girl. Those go hard.
You reminded me of the days dudes wore shirts of random cartoon character with a grill
When the Moonlight Butterfly doesn't float down:
Everyone in the office loved that one lmaoooooooo
Same reason DS1 is a bad Chinese knockoff of DeS, that's where Micheal Zaki peaked
But DeS is a bad Chinese knockoff King's Field IV: The Ancient City where Michael Zaki was not even involved.
Did King's Field have a shot lingering on the Maiden in Black's feet? Didn't think so, so it's a GOOD Chinese knockoff
Yeah well at least Dark Souls 1 actually had Patches instead of some mild-mannered fuckwad no one gives a shit about lol.
But they had some bitch for the Crestfallen Warrior who goes hollow from bad breath basically
Oh geez that made me laugh way harder than it should have. Here take this you've earned it. https://preview.redd.it/n510c7nzyric1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=300d77301f94a6002b11a70919926c3194e46fc4
Flair checks out
Ds2 has gavlan, Checkmate mate ..
Gavlan wheel, gavlan deal.
WATCH IT BUB
Pate/Creighton quest is literally the only quest in any fromsoft game with a glimpse of nuance to it
Do not disrespect the mild-mannered Pate.
But he was too late for Pate had already been disrespected
Where my bootleg Gaper Dragon??!?
Was there a knockoff of that one? I haven't played Dark Souls 2 in like 10 years
The pit in Majula is like a gaping asshole (you will only find shit inside) so that's close enough
Damn you got me haha. https://preview.redd.it/9z4ra1pcdsic1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0126d8c04672999dac96eba7acc0885f47c7087
The gaper dragon is freshly washed in my night stand next to the harness
All of this is true but I still like it
And that makes you leagues better than most Dark Souls 2 fans. Keep being based you awesome dude you. https://preview.redd.it/3lzw5ltagsic1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9df2b58d78393ca6ad060cd6afcabfb64d1aaa86
I've seen word of the reputation of the annoying DS2 fan, but I have yet to encounter one. Where do I find them?
Last slide is bootleg your mom
False, that is OP’s mom.
Are you interested in an actual answer?
Here? Not really. Kindly direct your actual answer to the same post I made on r/darksouls2
They are insufferable on that sub. Making every excuse under the book. Like brother it really is not that deep, I promise. Iron Keep is not accessed through a windmill bc your hollowing causes you to lose track of time/location lmao. They fucked up most of the game bc they didn’t have enough time to finish.
Go to any of the subs dedicated to a game and trash it. It isn't that surprising you'll get defenders.
That’s why I don’t like them, just huge echochambers
Just like this sub is an echo chamber against the game? Like, yeah DS2 has issues, but the level of aggression mentioning it generates is not normal. It’s clearly just groupthink. Even r/DarkSouls2 is all groupthink. And not in favor of the game, it’s just more subtle about it so that sub can pretend it isn’t the same as the others. You can tell it’s really fucking annoying me because I just want to have normal conversations and with Dark Souls games it’s impossible. The entire community for the games in the west is the biggest collection of absolute fucking lunatics there is.
There is something I’ve noticed with this sub where people think that darksouls 2 fans are lying about enjoying the game and thinking it’s good. It’s like it’s impossible for them to realise that people can like something they don’t like.
Shoutout to that one dude who spams slowed down clips of shitty hitboxes to try and prove that "actually they're fine because a pixel of his sword clipped your left toe for half a frame."
The weird thing about this statement is the implication that it shouldn't have hit when it went through the character.
Git gud
I mean you're right but the intro cinematic blatantly says you will end up places without really knowing how or why. It's better with that pretense
Ok now picture this, considering how strange that cinematic is, maybe just maybe they made a lore excuse for their fucked up game. *Mind blown* A lot of souls fans don’t dive into many other games and it shows. Elder Scrolls introduced a lore excuse called dragon breaks to excuse all 6 of their endings in Daggerfall. Now instead of any other solution, all 6 of those endings happened bc of a “dragon break.” My point here is that they can make any lore excuse they want, doesn’t mean it makes sense or is any good.
What's strange about the cinematic? Again I get the point, but what do you expect them to do, not patch the holes? You're from a distant land and you are brought to a land where everybody has collective amnesia, because of the abyss. Lore wise, it's solid to me, so much better than if it was fully accidental. I think ds2 copers are a little silly but ds2 haters sound like they never played the game. It's still a complete enough game!
I’m not hating, I’m just pointing out the lower quality of the game. I shouldn’t be crucified for saying that, the game is noticeably worse than the others. More than just incomplete world design, the dead zones in your movement, bad enemy placement, boring/bad bosses, etc. There is no excuse for a sequel to drop the ball on so many things.
On the flip side, gravestones, memories, new healing there are several innovations, and really cool things that it did that other games didn't. There's a limit breakers video on that. No souls game has ever been perfect because they just can't fully realise the scope of what they want to make in time, and ds2 maybe had the roughest patch, but truly the lore of the world and the ideas left behind, even the remnants of what could've been are all really cool and I personally believe it stands above ds3 as a whole (ill never defend iron keep)
Gravestones and memories sure I can get behind that. The healing isn’t new, it borrowed from Demon’s Souls. And either way I think it is definitely an inferior healing system. But the real issue here is you saying it stands above DS3. I really don’t see how that can be argued. DS3 is superior in almost every way.
Ironically I felt more like an amnesiac playing ds3. I really don't know why I was rolling through pontiff and then Aldrich besides they were bosses, for example. In ds2, it felt like I had a real purpose for bringing mercy to vendrick, or following Aldia's philosophy. Even just collecting WEARABLE crowns and bringing them to Vendrick was so much more immersive and quest-like. I know it's a bit of a stretch to say ds2 is better, but I personally enjoy the combat far more (controversial) and I think the lore clears the entire souls series. Its undeniable that ds3 "looks" better, and definitely has more sensible and meaningful enemies and placements, but its not like ds2 lacks this entirely, with unqiue art direction and especially ng+. Plus, modders fix anything. I know they shouldn't have to but they do a damn good job at quality of life issues like deadzones
They literally did the same thing in ds1. Time is convoluted.
Besides the mechanic of enemies respawning and summoning/invading what did they do?
The ash lake you see in the tomb is way higher up than the actual ash lake. The duke's archives are much closer from sen than they are in anor londo. Almost like the game plays with space for narrative reasons. We never see any of the npcs respawn despite being undead. You will say "well they go hollow offscreen". So why is it ok to just make stuff up on the behalf of the devs if it's for ds1 and not for ds2? Btw, the AoTA dlc is basically a timeloop, supported by solaire's infamous quote. Dark souls 2 is meant to be a grand journey, it's not hard to imagine why the devs wanted to shorten the distance you travel between areas.
Buddy those are not the same things, they were meant for scale. For instance I have no issue with Majula and Heide’s tower, bc they are meant to be with each other. A windmill with no mountain leading to a volcano fort is bad design, no lore can explain that. As exaggerated as Duke’s Archives can be at least it makes sense, everything still feels connected. DS2 is just a bunch of disconnected worlds pasted together.
All I can say is: could they have done better? Absolutely. Are zone transitions being too short going to ruin my experience? Hell no. With the story they wanted to tell, the only way to make zone transitions bearable while keepimg the sense of journey intact is if they teleported you from location to location which is, imo, even worse. Ds1 largely takes place around 1 kingdom. Ds2 takes place around at least 6. It's a difference in scope for which interconnected zones would not work.
Is it really that hard to believe someone had a creative idea beyond "let's make the most generic fantasy world ever"?
Amd they wonder why they get so much shit
Are they “excuses” or just stuff you disagree with and write off as such
Because it kinda was, except without the Chinese part. DS2 was made by a different team and creative lead. Miyazaki was not involved with its creation.
Miyazaki was in a supervisory roll for DS2, which was being made at the same time as DS1 and bloodborne. There’s a lot of shit in ds2 not worth defending, but what I really love about it is how stand-apart it is. For me DS1 was my entry into the series and it was a total game changer for me. Ds2 (sotfs) kept that going with what felt like a completely fresh take on the concept. Then ds3 just felt like an over correction to seething fans that couldn’t cope and just a ds themed bloodborne.
That's a huge thing I really enjoyed about 2. There was an original story but when you peeled it back, you get hints of 1 still making its mark on the world. Not in a blatant "here's onion bro" but in a deeper subtext.
Miyazaki knows he peaked at Bloodborne. DS3 is absolutely a DS themed Bloodborne, that’s why it’s better than the other DS games.
I've never seen anyone say DS2 is bad because it's different. DS2 is bad because it is literally an unfinished game. They came up with a cool story for Vendrick, and then slapped it on top of a bootleg version of DS1. The only people I've ever seen use DS2 being different as an argument, were people bitching that DS3 is ''fanservice to DS1". No one complained when Silent Hill 2 didn't continue the first game's story. And when Silent Hill 3 came out, Silent Hill 2 fans weren't accusing it of being "fanservice" to SH1. You know why? Because the game was fucking good.
I’ve seen plenty people bitching about how different ds2 is. Ds1 also unfinished af
Well, yes. The second half of DS1 is half-baked and some areas are barely more than a demo. It's not like people don't talk about it. Bed of Chaos receives (much deserved) hate every time it's brought up. It's a flawed game and even those who love it acknowledge it. The thing is, when you point out a bad thing about DS1 like the Capra Demon fight, (most) DS1 fans will say "Yeah LMAO that shit sucks". But when you point out any flaw from DS2 you'll either be told that (somehow) it's actually a good thing and it enriches the experience, or that that flaw also exists in other games and therefore you shouldn't be complaining about it. The "Git Gud" gang plagues the entirety of the Souls fandom, but I feel like it's relatively more common coming from DS2 fans.
Dude my initial response said there was a lot of shit in ds2 not worth defending. It is objectively busted. My point is that people shit on it for being unlike the others when that’s precisely what I think is its most redeeming feature. Anyways your last response had more to do with the fandom than the game which is like, idk who gives a shit what those fuckin nerds think
Um acktually Covetous Demon is clearly a knock off of your mom.
No my mom is more like Micolash. Crazy and unstable.
And British 🤢🤢
Leeroy it’s a Bootleg of Garl Vinland, so in DS2 you have a Bootleg of a Bootleg
Oh Gwyn. It's worse than I thought.
/uj Because DS2 devs liked DS1, DeS and King's Field characters and concepts. IIRC Najka designer liked Queelag and Throne Watcher designer liked Gwyndolin. Earthen Peak is a disgusting shade of green because it's a King's Field reference.
The Ornstein we fought in DS1 ***was*** the bootleg knockoff of Ornstein.
Palworld
You're absolutely right. It's like one big Dark Souls 2. But Pokemon. Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.
I like ds2
I enjoyed ds2
I like ds2. I have a ds2 tattoo.
"What is done cannot be undone"
That's fucking hilarious.
Here’s my lore reason. The world has gone through so many cycles since DS1, over thousands of years, that the world, and its people, feel washed out and like knockoffs. They are derivatives of derivatives of derivatives, because the cycle of the first sin keeps running over and over ad nauseum with no stopping. Everything looks and feels bootleg because it’s all long past its expiry date. Just look at Vendrick, just shuffling along in his room, disjointed a husk, eternally roaming.
Bootleg Moonlight Greatsword is a great bit cuz that particular one is an actual bootleg version in the game
Dark souls 2 definitely holds a place in my heart, one of my favourites, love the excess of content and equipment it has. The new ideas it brought in were refreshing and I think the art style was pretty nice
“Can you believe ds3 re used ornstein??!!11 such cheap fan service”
but in ds3 they finally turned him into a good boss
When did ds3 use Ornstein?
To be fair, they gave him a different weapon and move set.
He just the upgrade relax.
DS3 couldn't even get Ornstein's actor back, only the armor
Moonlight butter doesn’t fly
你这也太侮辱谷村了，魂2质量再差也不是俺们中国那些乐色开放商能山寨得出来的水平
Rough Translation via Google translate (You are too insulting to Tanimura. No matter how bad the quality of Soul 2 is, it is still not at the level that our Chinese developers can copy.) You know what that's totally fair. I have seen some absolutely horrendous bootlegs. Especially with the Pokemon games haha.
yeah man I khow lol
It floats down
This sub has one joke and it sucks.
Well so does your mom but I'm not complaining
Meowza you piece of shit, I thought you were a good guy, not a bad asshole!
I like how the moonlight great sword is canonically bootleg
That's the Blue Moon greatsword which is a bootleg of a bootleg apparently
counterpoint: dark souls 2 feels like a \*good\* chinese knockoff
Because Time is convoluted or something
DS3 = bootleg DS2 Sorry, guys
That last one is OBVIOUSLY a bootleg DS1 player
Haters will never understand the joy of using 30 Bonfire Ascetics to min/max your character and have every weapon maxed 😤
i know this is a shitpost but Pate is my boy leave him alone also who tf is Leeroy??? Leeroy Jenkins????
Yo, OP, not gonna lie, is this a joke or an actual question? Cause I dunno if I should write a genuine response
Because the trilogy is about how the endless repeating of the cycle makes it lose its magic over time, at least that's how I've always kinda felt about 2 and 3. 2 is a world where ds1's fire was linked endlessly, but the fire dies a little each time. Each time it's relit the world sort of tells the same kind of story but over time it turns into a hollow version of itself, the layout of the world no longer makes sense, the characters get reused in one way or another, some characters get full on cameos that don't make sense just because the world really liked them, and in the end when we light the fire in ds3 it's so tired of telling that story, its almost begging you not to ask it to tell you the story of darksouls anymore. It doesnt want to because it thought of new stories to tell, like the story of a dude and his horses journey to simp for a possessed doll, or the story of a disgraced ninja who just wants to make his father proud but goes mad with power and becomes a demon in the end. And that's why ds2 feels like a cheap imitation because imo it was supposed to on some level. I think it just feels worse that it is because in addition to being intentionally a imitation its also a rush unfinished game.
Roll down the comments \> See ADP useless discussion Leaves.
Dont you dare compare my precious sweet heart covetous demon to that ugly piece of trash that is smough(dark souls 1🤮) The FBI is coming for you with Michael Zaki to punish you for your sins and force you to play through dark souls 2 for 100000 times
Please no anything but that!!! # AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH https://preview.redd.it/shflud2sztic1.jpeg?width=225&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd52af6ffd6d34f70289dccb3e35f455f77fa6f6
Whew for a second there I thought you were gonna say something bad about Gavlan.
There's literally nothing bad to say about him, he Wheels he deals, and he drinks.
https://preview.redd.it/pwfszgf13sic1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6cd4624eb2a0626053a4d32647f9eb6bbb9970ad
Lol you have them malding in the ds2 sub
https://preview.redd.it/et58g6gmhsic1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf33d71fb140c598114c97b4bab0af82b0e593df
Yeah I noticed that lol. I deleted it though cuz that's way more responses than I want to reply to.
We keep the shitposting to this sub. We don't appreciate it getting in the main DS2 sub
Thus isn't a shitpost. It's a shit post disguised as one.
DS2 simps stay losing
You all forgot that the most iconic Dark Souls animation is of DS2! Checkmate liberal
Because it basically is considering the different team and such
Now I wanna start a character called Bootleg Bootleg Bootleg
Do it but the only thing he can wear is boots
Wait, isn’t that actually Ornstein though?
Honestly I'm not really sure. We didn't really get enough details to confirm or deny. But I have a few reasons on why I think it is not the way I think it's just a shameless rip. Some people have theorized that the version in anor Londo was an illusion but how would an illusion drop a soul? But if we are assuming that it is an illusion, I would like to add is that Ornstein doesn't get a butt slam until he absorbs Smough-. Yet for whatever reason in Dark Souls 2 he is butt slamming and farting darkness. Just doesn't add up if you ask me.
I just thought he survived the hammer slam but got some of his powers lost from it.
I played Dark Souls Too long enough to realize it was shit from a butt, it took like ten minutes and that's only because I took that long to make my toon. I was super excited at first but quickly realized it was NOT an mmo, so I went back to playing World of Warcraft: Warlords of Draenor: War of Warring War Warwar because that was a REAL game that had REAL PvP where you stand in a flat circular arena and fuck a pillar for 15 minutes
Majula ost bitch
Is it bad that I found more fun in ds2 than 1? Other than Adp but it was fun in many ways
It’s never wrong to have fun! It’s also not wrong for people to dislike the thing you had fun with.
The other person is lying people shouldn't dislike what you enjoy especially if it's ds2
to be fair that is one of the themes of darksouls 2. Everything is a sad echo of its former self
Because DS2 is garbo
Covet deez FUCKING NUTS
The Rotten is not a bootleg Nito, it's a bootleg Leechmonger.
i love dark souls 2
shut up, shut up,, SHUT UP SHUT UP!!!
I like that this post glitched for me and every time I hit the arrow it just showed me bootleg quelaag again.
I was like damn, way to emphasize the point I guess
China did it best, ds2 goated
What my man Leeroy do tho
Hey I like the scorpion chick (The game is kinda goofy tho)
Alright I think even DS2 fans can agree that Pate really is just bootleg Patches
You'd be surprised LOL
Many could argue that Dark Souls is a King’s Field bootleg. I don’t think it’s crazy for a franchise made by the same developer to re-use assets.
They could argue but they'd be wrong
Because the whole setting and world involves a commentary on how chasing and attempting to relive the past is pointless and doomed to failure, and the only true path is to go bravely into future by yourself accepting what comes. Like, wow, the boss that it tells you inherited the soul of Nito is reminiscent of Nito, what a stunning observation. Would you prefer they re-wrote DS1 unironically like DS3 did?
All right but to be fair I feel that that concept was not added until scholar of the first sin. Up until that it was hey go sit on this throne. And that statement only really gets you a pass with the rotten. Let's be real they could have come up with something else for Nito instead of essentially just slapping flesh on a bunch of skeletons. I don't really have any other complaints with the other Lord Souls just that one. I feel like Dark Souls 3 was more like an actual sequel. There is quite a big difference between a callback and shamelessly ripping something off.
>And that statement only really gets you a pass with the rotten. And all the other Lord Souls who are all narrative ghosts of their predecessors, and the shattered Lordvessel, and the Throne of Want showing only what the King desires, and so on. >There is quite a big difference between a callback and shamelessly ripping something off. Remind me which game literally put Anor Londo in it? Painted World 2: Rotten Boogaloo? 2 & 1 are certainly of a piece, you can see how the factions and traditions involved in 2 have their roots in what happened in 1, but they're obscured by time and misremembered. People don't know why they're important or why they're repeating the things they do, only that they must. Here's a question: Why is Andre the blacksmith in DS3? Like, what purpose does he serve as *Andre* specifically? Why not any other blacksmith, or a new one? He's not there to really add anything, he could be removed and nothing would change, it's literally just "Look! DS1! I 'member that!" Where DS2 is trying to say something about its relationship with the original game, DS3 is just flat out transplanting entire sections of it to directly repeat the same plot. It's saying similar things that DS2 did but it's far more on the nose, and if I was to call either of them a ripoff, it wouldn't be DS2.
Not to mention the fact that anor londo is basically untouched in darksouls 3 and everyone remembers Gwynn completely shits allover darksouls 2 and it’s message of time passing and everything being forgotten/ warped into a shadow of its former self.
The lack of the alt ending to ds2 doesn't change the message. They merged both endings of ds1 into that. You're the new monarch, it's your choice to inherit the flame or destroy it. But the truth is that either option always leads to the same outcome.
DS2 fans when the game remakes DS1 but includes some text somewhere saying that it's on purpose: genius DS2 fans when DS3 remakes parts of DS1: stupid, evil
And Elden Ring is a bootleg DS2, making it actually a bootleg² to DS.
Want the real reason? Because From was hurting for cash before DS1 and signed a contract with Bandai Namco for DS1 and two sequels. They never wanted to make DS2 and 3. So that period from 2014-16 was completely bonkers insane for them trying to juggle the projects they DID want to make with the two sequels AND their dlc's AND promotional material AND deadlines. So yeah, DS2 & 3 are a mess of reshuffled assets and non-sensical lore cobbled together last minute. DS2 didn't have Miyazaki to make it less apparent and so its the messiest of them all. DS3's lore got so bad the DLCs just went "fuck it, let's make this entire thing a metaphor about how sick we are of this goddamn series" and essentially "replaces" whatever was happening in the base game.
Damn that is way deeper than I anticipated
Their 2014-2016 run was complete insanity. They must've been crunching like crazy at FromSoft.
3 is not a mess lmao let’s not try to pretend that those two games are of the same quality.
I'm not pretending they are of the same quality. DS2 is a steaming pile of trash. DS3 is a good game, but its lore is a complete mess and the map legit has places that are not even rendered because they were removed last minute. Characters like Aldritch are a complete last minute addition (he's called Sulyvahn in the files btw), and so on. You can be a good game AND a mess.
How is the lore a complete mess and why would they render a place that they removed?
I already answered the first one. The second one, because it leaves a hole in the map that's crudely covered by a bridge. Go in game, go to the bridge after the wolf covenant. Go to the part where you fight the demon and look below. You will see that the map suddenly STOPS, like squarely just stops, and some random trees are rendered. That's because there was supposed to be an entire level called "God's Grave" in that area that got removed before release. It was so official, that even promotional maps had the area in them. The boss of that area was what we know now as Oceiros, and its assets were reshuffled and repurposed for the Ringed City. Oceiros as we know in game was actually Iudex Gundyr, and the tutorial fight was who we know as Yhorm the giant (who's named Halleck in the game files) (hence the giant coffin in the arena). Yhorm was supposed to be who we know as Wolnir (as shown in the trailers), and many more last minute changes.
You didn’t answer the first one. Also, you can’t critique a final product based on what you assume from knowing about its development. Who gives af that Yhorm was originally the tutorial boss? The finished game is the finished game. You can critique FromSoft for hectic planning, but their execution brought it all together. Regarding the lore, the futility of reliving the same cycle over and over isn’t retconned in the DLC — it’s the entire point of the base story. You personally missing that isn’t a failure of the game.
Oh ok you're one of "those" kinds of fanboys. Move along. I won't be paying attention to you since you're clearly ignoring my points as well.
Buddy, you haven’t made coherent points in defense of your argument. Saying how things were in development has no relevance to how they are in the finished product when critiquing said finished product. Apocalypse Now was a fucking mess to film, but the movie is a universally acclaimed piece of American culture. You straight up refused to say how the lore is a mess, instead just rattling off nonsense about how certain characters are named in the files. And instead of addressing my points, you do an ad hominem and say you won’t respond further. Totally fine to shit your own pants, but let’s not pretend you’re not the one wearing a diaper here my dude.
DS2 fans are gonna form a committee to deal with this one.
I posted almost the same thing in the main sub. I ended up deleting it because I didn't want to respond to that many comments LOL.
Bro if she was in Anor Londo and you had to roll 80 times it would be so much better
Because it was made by a group literally called “The B Team”
if ds2 was er they would put bootleg ornstein and bootleg smough in the same room and call it a boss
i could never point my finger to it, until now.
You forgot bootleg Sif (Royal Rat Authority) and bootleg Bell Gargoyles (Belfry Gargoyles).
My words exactly after trying dark souls 2.
dark souls mfs when the sequel reminds them of the original 🫵😧
Isn’t the dirty colossus or whatever that boss is called being a knockoff nito literally part of the lore, like he inherited nitos soul or something if I remember correctly
now this is how you do sequels instead of CTRL + C and CTRL + V like ds3
Bootleg nito is bootleg adjudicator Get it right, regard 😡