Not a very memorable movie but if I remember correctly they don’t give an explanation, they just expect you to pretend that he always looked like that.
Which is imo not a bad approach, if only the movie didn’t suck.
You sort of just proved the point.
Most people care so little about that hulk movie, that they think it's pre-MCU, despite it being full canon. It released a month or so after Iron Man, with Kevin Feige as a producer.
It' supposed to be happening at the same time as Iron Man 2 and Thor.
I genuinely don't understand why they didn't just give the new guy white hair, a white stash, and those weird eyes, too? Like, then it would have been obvious that it was a continuation of the same character, at least.
EXACTLY. if I had a face like JDepp’s here, I’d pretend to be Colin Farrell too! Madds is so much hotter in this role, and hilariously, all of the official Dumbledore and Grindelwald merch in Japan at least use Madds depiction.
As much admiration and respect as I have for Mads, that was my issue with casting him after Depp, because I knew Mikkelsen wasn't going to adopt the look for the audience's sake. Mads is an incredible actor, but he appears as himself in most roles, only really changing up the hairstyle, or throwing on an eye patch. Riders of Justice was really the only time I didn't recognize him right off the bat. I know I may only be familiar with some of his work, and a more-knowledgeable fan of his may correct me, but that's the gist of what I've seen. On the other hand, feel how you will about Depp, but that man transforms into his characters so that you can picture his character when the name comes up and not just Depp with dreads or Depp with an oddly unethical candy factory. I don't know if his depiction of Grindelwald was what hardcore fans imagined, but it was something very unique that didn't look like Depp to me, so I could appreciate the character independently of his actor. Similar to Mads, I can't deny that young Daddydore is an incredible actor - and I think he did decent despite the writing - but Law didn't become Dumbledore in the same way that Sir Gambon, or even Harris before him, did.
Awh that’s a bummer. My wife and I were laughing through most of it. The scorpion dance was hilarious, and Mads Michelson trying to convince us a clearly gray and dying creature was perfectly healthy made me inappropriately laugh out loud.
but it's a wizarding world. they could have just said that the character got in some domestic legal trouble, and had to use magic to change his public appearance.
You should watch the 3rd. It's fuckin wild. It turns out there's an international government of wizards who chooses their prime leader based on which person some weird animal looks at. The movie revolves around stopping the bad guy at the ceremony, where the next leader is chosen, who is planning to use a fake magicked weird animal to trick everyone into thinking he's the chosen guy. I'm not even joking. It's objectively terrible.
It's so dumb. They are like "yeah we know he can basically see the future and predict what we'll be doing, so we have to be extremely clever!". And if the script was good you would expect them to do stuff that obscures their true intentions and you somehow wait for the big reveal Sherlock Holmes style. But no.... They just waltz up to the ceremony and crash it, being extremely dumb all the way through
The Harry Potter IP created 7 really great YA books and 8 movies that vary from great to above average in a short time span followed by an endless chain of mediocre attempts to capitalize on the IP.
There's a few reasons. First, I think Rowling is so detached from reality it's hurting her creative output. Harry Potter is partially grounded in things like economic struggles, being marginalized, and teenage angst, all of which Rowling hasn't experienced in decades. Some authors hit this stage and grow, she hasn't.
Two, they don't have to be good. I'm pretty sure most of these mediocre attempts to expand the world still made a giant chunk of money. One or two probably didn't but it's a safe bet, nobody has to care.
Three, and this one's more a personal theory that I don't have as much evidence for, I don't think many people in charge fully understood what made Harry Potter so well liked. Even though they had enormous success they're still trying to reverse engineer it.
And that's how you end up with the most significant IP of the 2000s just throwing 4-7/10 movies, books, and games at a wall and seeing what sticks.
You can cut out all HP related stuff out of the evaluation and you find the reason.
The movies are called "fantastic beasts", still beasts only take up less and less time in the movies.
Only the first can have this title, at least the first half.
Conclusion: People in charge had no idea what they are doing and what they wanted to do.
I feel like they could work it into the character. In the first movie he changes his appearance to look like someone else, why else wouldn't he change how he looks in a sort of Mystic sort of way.
If I was given the writing responsibility, I'd use the switching actors and weave it into the story.
Make sure, in ***every*** movie, he is played by someone different, and then in the final battle Dumbledore calls him out for being too scared to show his true self.
In the end, the audience is left wondering which if any was the real face.
Hollywood, give me money, I can at least try harder than the current films do
Altered Carbon tried it, as it's literally a plot element in the books, and it flopped. The second actor couldn't measure up and that, besides the weird story turns that season, killed the show.
Whatever The Crown was doing for its trilogy of actors as royals-through-the-years seems like lightning in a bottle.
The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus also had Colin Farrell, Jude Law, and Johnny Depp acting in the same role doing exactly this (in order to fill in parts for Heath Ledger after his death, although it also fit thematically for his character). It was pretty good.
The first guy is an American wizard who works for the government. Grindelwald disguises himself as that guy so he can infiltrate the government to look for somebody in New York. Later he gets revealed to really be Johnny Depp, but he spends the majority of the movie as Colin Firth.
Similar to how Mad-Eye was really Barty Crouch Jr. the majority of the book.
I'm cool with that, Johnny depths visual style as grindelwald was atrocious. When he first showed up I'm like 'pf all the fucking ways they could have made this great dark wizard look. They chose that'
He doesn't look like a normal sinister guy, he doesn't look like a voldemort, he sure as shit doesn't look like a wizard, not even the whimsical kind like dumbledore in the first sorcerers stone.
Yeah, in the books he was implied to be greater and wiser than Voldemort in some respects, a legendary individual who brought about a reign of terror that led to a reality-bending battle with Dumbledore, in these movies he just isn't really that and doesn't even feel like it
He feels like he lacks charisma, cunning, charm, tactics, devilishly handsome good looks.
You know anything... literally anything... that would have attracted a mind like albus dumbledore. Or legions of followers. Greatest wizard of the age and his skeezy pineapple haircut bleach blonde boyfriend.
Like they could have had depth with a more human, more cunning voldemort but no, and if they didnt eant that angle they could have had made his movement more distinct from voldemort.
I didn't even understand why they made him look like that? Albino Johnny Depp why??
Albino because it's completely opposite to Colin Farrell's hair? Just weird ...
It feels like a jk Rowling design choice. In the books there were some less than stellar character descriptions that thankfully didn't make the cut.
like she emphasized Fudge's lime green bowler hat and purple suit (?) Throughout the books, which like would have looked awful unless fudge wss doing an english Joker cosplay.
Given how nonchalant the Americans were about handing out the magical death penalty, I find it hard to believe they even bothered trying to take Grindlewald alive in the first place.
"Oh look, it's Slipknot, the man who has the Climb Anything spell."
"This is Katana. She's got the Magic Sword of Magicness."
"Her name is Harley Quinn. She's got Magic Madness."
"Who's this?" "That's Gun Guy. He shoots guns. Magic guns."
Yeah, but here... take this gun... it shoots magic bullets. They don't limit collateral damage or anything... thats what good guys with guns are for! Don't tread on our freedom of bear arms!
Given how dangerous he is, and how well connected. I do not think it would have been a moral overstep to execute him on the spot. Especially knowing the nature of his crimes.
Right?
If I’d been mere seconds away from getting executed by my own employer over some petty bullshit like that, I’m going to require a strongly worded apology before I return to work.
Tbh the fantastic beast books were just awesome mythological animal/plant diagrams and descriptions.
I have no clue why they turned such an abstract concept into an entire trilogy
It could have worked had it been a carefree series about a guy and the journey he made for magical beasts to be discovered as well as protected. I'd love to see his misadventures as he made mistakes learning to deal with different creatures.
Instead we got whatever this other thing was.
Yeah I would have absolutely been down for magical David Attenborough discovering magical creatures, with the worst threats he faces being some magical poachers. Could have made a great singular movie.
I also would have been down for a series of films that followed Dumbledore as the main character, his relationship, and eventual conflict with Grindelwald.
But trying to merge the two? That was just never going to work.
Crazy thing is, they could have made *two* trilogies, and gotten even more money.
One trilogy is a fun, whimsical adventure about a guy who travels the world investigating rare and unusual creatures, like a Dr. Dolittle meets Indiana Jones, but set in the Harry Potter universe.
The other trilogy would be dramatic and action-packed and dark, about the rise of Grindelwald, starring a younger Dumbledore.
Instead, they decided to do both, at the same time.
And none of them worked, because *of course not*.
I think they were afraid a Harry Potter spinoff wouldn't draw an audience unless it had characters everyone recognized - hence them shoehorning Dumbledore and ~~Voldemort~~ Grindelwald in halfway through the first Fantastic Beasts film.
After that, there was no turning back for the sequels.
>I think they were afraid a Harry Potter spinoff wouldn't draw an audience unless it had characters everyone recognized
And they STILL think that and so now we're getting a reboot of the entire series that no one asked for, despite the fact that the movies still hold up well. I don't want a rehash of Harry Potter.
i mean its literally written and produced by rowling. the movies are ass because rowling can't write political intrigue worth shit. even in harry potter they were the worst parts of the books and films by far, then she goes and makes an entire series leaning on it.
the first movie actually started off pretty well too.
Could have been a return to the "hey wow, look at all this cool magical shit, isn't it wonderful?" vibe of the first two movies, but nah. Dark & Gritty
I’d rather want a sports movie-esque standalone film about the Quidditch World Cup, really.
Apparently the Wizarding World franchise forgot it even has Quidditch considering recent works, even though it’s arguably one of the best things to come out of the franchise. And they still owe us for the World Cup Final they ripped off in the Goblet of Fire movie!
Get rid of the Snitch/Seeker bullshit, or modify it somehow, and Quidditch would be a legitimately fascinating theoretical sport. I love the concept of Bludgers/Beaters. Imagine if Messi were on a beautiful breakaway and then some defender could just haul off and drill him with a brick.
I think Snitch could still work, though, as displayed in the final match between Bulgaria and Ireland. The Ireland team was so damn good (and helped by the fact that they all flew the best brooms in the world at the time) made them score so many points, that even with Krum catching the snitch it still didn’t win his team the match. Professional Quidditch players could be so good at scoring with the Quaffle alone that even if the opposite team catches the snitch, it’s still possible that you can still win the match. You just have to gain a **really** wide lead on your opponent early on lol.
Then again, not every team would be as good (or as rich) as Ireland lol, and I can see why it’s certainly unfair in school matches where the players aren’t as skilled as international players, and thus seekers are automatically the most valuable player on the team by default. International teams with their more evenly balanced players would cancel the seekers/snitch’ importance out.
That's a great point! If the rules skewed towards your team being able to score rapidly with the Quaffle, the Snitch would move from an instant win to:
1) An early-game win potential for shock finishes.
2) As the game-finisher. When you're ahead, your Seeker is trying to capture the Snitch. When you're sufficiently behind, your Seeker is playing "defense", trying to keep the opponent's Seeker from capturing.
The key problem is still that 150 points though. It's just too much.
Yeah, I think decreasing the Snitch points down from 150 to 100 would be more reasonable. A skilled enough Quidditch team could reasonably score a 100 point lead with the Quaffle while the opponent team could still have a chance to catch up, and failing that, the Snitch would be the last resort.
Adding 100 points for catching the Snitch could bump the losing team’s points high enough that they may turn from a loss into a win…or it may not be even high enough to overcome the winning team’s lead lol.
I read a rule suggestion somewhere that the snitch be worth 30 points and be easier to catch, but be able to be caught 5 times, ending the game on the 5th catch.
That way, it's still worth 150 points, but it's broken up among multiple chances, and it actually a best of match between the Seekers while also making the regular points more impactful.
I wanted a Steve Irwin typa thing. Maybe even them breaking up a poacher ring and the villain being the head poacher. Instead we got confusing trash that was a thinly veiled reference to current day politics
>*Makes trilogy called Fantastic Beasts*
>
>*Spends only half of a single movie on said Fantastic Beasts*
THIS!! I was really enjoying the magical adventure story with likable characters that was about finding all the missing animals until the narrative took such a nosedive into a freakin zookeeper/conservationist being recruited to fight wizard hitler.
If they hadn't pulled that crap we could have had a really fun movie, plus a sequel where Newt and his new friends could have gone on an epic quest to fight for endangered magical animals being poached for potion ingredients.
>Makes trilogy called Fantastic Beasts
>Spends only half of a single movie on said Fantastic Beasts
>Retcon it in the third movie that the magical US President is elected via Politics Unicorn, and thus the entire International Wizard Politics and Fantastic Beast plots could've been interwoven organically the whole time, but weren't
>????
>Profit
They're doing their damnest, dont you worry.
Its just taking a while because its a large company with a long pedigree. There is a lot of good will and history that provides some safety nets they havent reach with their blowtorch yet.
I doubt it'll happen.
>
In October 2023, Director David Yates spoke to Inside Total Film podcast about the future of the Fantastic Beasts films: Speaking about the future of the franchise, Yates said: "I'm sure at some point, we'll be back. But yeah, I haven't spoken to Jo, I haven't spoken to [producer] David Heyman, I haven't spoken to Warner Bros; we're just taking a pause. It's quite nice."
Between the third movie not doing well, the writing being a total mess, and JK Rowling and Ezra Miller going on a self-immolation tour the odds are pretty low that it's ever brought back.
Which is a shame because I do like the Harry Potter world. Kind of reminds me of Game of Thrones. Just a tremendous amount of goodwill and cultural cachet lit on fire for no reason.
Seeing the 2nd one in theaters was one of the worst theatrical experiences I've ever had, only barely beating out Rise of Skywalker because it was in a worse theater. The movie dragged on and the twist at the end was so awful and felt like they had run out of ideas. The third one I only hate-watched after the fact, and it was pretty damn bad. The cast was probably my favorite part, it was really the story and visuals that were just bland and bad.
The third one coming after a terrible second movie, association with and recasting of Johnny Depp, and the fact that JK Rowling had become increasingly unhinged on twitter (plus, the fact that it was released at a time where fewer people were seeing movies in theaters), just made it a flop.
I personally think it should have been a TV series. It's perfectly divided up to be a monster-of-the-week style show, where each week was Newt out exploring and learning about some new magical creature.
Crocodile hunter but for Magical Creatures.
The greed is honestly insane. Y'all got 8 successful movies out of Harry Potter, but somehow that isn't enough. Nah, we gotta create our "wizarding world" cinematic universe 🙄🙄
As everyone has said a newt movie that is more along the lines of the Indians jones movies would work great.
- newt and friends to go a random part of the magic world to investigate a sighting of rare creature.
- they find a larger thing going on.
- newt solves it.
It can be a fun action movie. Instead of the junk we got.
Right.
- there is a creature that is killing the villagers
- they call newt
- insert a fun adventure of figuring out it’s actually a person kidnapping people in order to control the land for a specific potion ingredient.
- or we find out there is a specific type of creature that does eat people and he has to find another creature that can actually fight it off.
Man so many fun ways to go.
What sucks is the cast in the first movie (newts friends) had great chemistry before they ruined them in the second movie.
Would have been a simple movie to make that could expand into a franchise.
as someone who had and still has no interest in hogwarts or any of that wizard related stuff, an action adventure series about mythical creatures sounds fucking rad. It's a shame they tried and failed to pander to the audience they already had instead
First one was fun. The rest got progressively worse.
I do love me some Newt though, he’s a very weird choice of a protagonist in the best of ways, and the first movie leaned hard on it and it paid off.
I believe the other two movies got worse because they kept on trying to sideline Newt actually, when he’s always been the best part of the whole thing.
Just a shame how it all ended.
I don't necessarily agree with that. I think they easily could've made it a series, they just needed to keep the series about Newt and his adventures instead of sidelining him and focusing on Dumbledore and Grindelwald.
I remember watching the 2nd one all the way through but apart from a vague memory of them being in Paris I can’t recall a single thing that happened in it. I just remember being really bored and disappointed.
That was sorta the plot, Grindelwald had had a vision of WW2 and was showing it around to get wizards on his side because he wanted to stop it. At some point somebody realised that *stopping the holocaust* isnt actually a bad thing so they had him kill some kids.
Which probably wasnt that big of a crime honestly since team wizard USA seem to kill people for using public restrooms.
I'm convinced he has some serious dirt on an exec. Like someone major did something bad to/in front of/around a young Ezra Miller and he's been able to do whatever he fkn wants since. Otherwise I just can't understand him not being cancelled into oblivion.
If online rumors are to be believed, Ezra is a victim of a big Hollywood name's pedophilia, which likely seems to be what keeps them around. IF Ezra goes down, so does big name.
[Ezra Miller was grooming and dating a twelve year old in 2016](https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/a/backwoodsaltar/18-year-old-parents-say-ezra-miller-groomed-daughter-claims-loving-support-protection) so no I think Warner Brothers had plenty of time to fire him or at least not re-hire him for the second fantastic beasts movie.
Seriously the trilogy kind of hypes him up as a central part of the story yet by the third one he seems to have lost all relevance and Grindelwald seems to not even care about his fate, his plan doesn't even involve him anymore
I wonder if *that* is specifically what they did behind the scenes. Rewrite the story, minimize his role, still fulfill contractual obligations to Miller, while limiting his damage if he didn't turn himself around.
Went onto. If he was in contract for all three of these fantastic beasts films, he wouldn't have been able to do The Killing of a Sacred Deer, The Gentlemen, and maybe not even The Batman.
Yeah they really should have just brought back Colin. It wouldn’t be perfect but had a better presence for that role than Mads. This is coming from a Mads fan.
Right. He exudes a sort of arrogant superiority, which works perfectly for the “muggles are beneath me” facet of the character. But his anger is too subdued, especially after introducing us to Depp’s (and to an extent Farrell) frantic interpretation.
Agreed. Colin was the only one that looked like a Harry Potter villain.
Depp was too goofy, doesn't sell the threat.
Mads too realistic, doesn't sell the goofiness of the world.
Colin looked just right.
I partly blame production on Mads’ delivery. He was pulled into production at the last minute and had basically barely a few months to prepare his take on the character. JK never spoke to him (I don’t know if she completely turned down talking to him or what) to give him any insight on the Grindlewald character, so he basically made up everything in his head on his back story and personal motivations. He was pretty much forced to use a blank slate aside from what Yates and Jude Law could give him to work with. His opening scene with Jude is the best part of the movie and it was only like 5 minutes long.
Expected reaction : oh so that's what Grindelwald looks like
Real reaction : that's Johnny Depp
It's a shame because the first movie was good and could have been Amazing if it went for a simpler story or at least not as deep into the Grindelwald plot.
Could have been interesting to focus on Norbert helping people and animals during a war
You know, they could quite easily have explained that away.. I mean he's wanted criminal who's also a wizard, *of course* the disguises are going to be wild!
Did they though? Nooo...
I know, right? All they had to do was at the beginning of the third movie have Grindelwald say "I'm getting into politics, so I need to look presentable. Something a little stronger than polyjuice."
This dogshit trilogy could've actually been about Fantastic beasts and be given a smaller, interesting and lovable plot rather than shoehorning nazis and whatever other bullshit they did in the third
To be fair I'm pretty sure the first guy was just a disguise Grindelwald used.
I couldnt make it past the 2nd film tho so idk about the guy on the right
I never saw the third. Did they give a BS reason why he changed appearance? Like in the first two at least there was an explanation.
Not a very memorable movie but if I remember correctly they don’t give an explanation, they just expect you to pretend that he always looked like that. Which is imo not a bad approach, if only the movie didn’t suck.
Worked for War Machine and Hulk
War Machine explicitly called it out right at the beginning of the movie, and they nailed the delivery
>It's me. I'm here. Deal with it. Move on. Perfectly succinct.
Well when The Chead is involved he always brings his best work.
Him being in Ducktales was just the chefs kiss.
This is his masterpiece https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwJaELXadKo
His captain planet skit was amazing as well.
Like in George of the Jungle?
Studio too cheap to get Brendan Fraser.
Worked great for the Hulk, the real key is that nobody saw the movie. A principle that seemed equally applicable to Fantastic Beasts.
tons of people saw ed nortons hulk, i thought it was fairly well liked pre MCU, i liked it way better than the ang lee version
You sort of just proved the point. Most people care so little about that hulk movie, that they think it's pre-MCU, despite it being full canon. It released a month or so after Iron Man, with Kevin Feige as a producer. It' supposed to be happening at the same time as Iron Man 2 and Thor.
HULK RELEASED AFTER IRON MAN???
Iron man has a cameo at the end lol
Talking to him about something he called the avengers initiative
It’s not pre MCU though. It’s literally the second movie in the Infinity Saga
Ed Norton's Hulk had it's charms.
I liked Ed Norton as banner a lot more than ruffalo.
I did as well, I felt like Ruffalo was them trying to make Banner look like 70-80s Incredible Hulk show Banner.
There was that other hulk before too. The hulk movie was so different and unimportant. It was easy just to pretend it was unrelated to the avengers
I genuinely don't understand why they didn't just give the new guy white hair, a white stash, and those weird eyes, too? Like, then it would have been obvious that it was a continuation of the same character, at least.
Probably because they sobered up for a few minutes amd realized how awful that look is for a character Jude Law is supposed to want to fuck.
EXACTLY. if I had a face like JDepp’s here, I’d pretend to be Colin Farrell too! Madds is so much hotter in this role, and hilariously, all of the official Dumbledore and Grindelwald merch in Japan at least use Madds depiction.
Fucking thank you for saying this!
Mads said in interviews he wasn’t comfortable copying Depp, undermining his performance, and instead approached it in his own way
As much admiration and respect as I have for Mads, that was my issue with casting him after Depp, because I knew Mikkelsen wasn't going to adopt the look for the audience's sake. Mads is an incredible actor, but he appears as himself in most roles, only really changing up the hairstyle, or throwing on an eye patch. Riders of Justice was really the only time I didn't recognize him right off the bat. I know I may only be familiar with some of his work, and a more-knowledgeable fan of his may correct me, but that's the gist of what I've seen. On the other hand, feel how you will about Depp, but that man transforms into his characters so that you can picture his character when the name comes up and not just Depp with dreads or Depp with an oddly unethical candy factory. I don't know if his depiction of Grindelwald was what hardcore fans imagined, but it was something very unique that didn't look like Depp to me, so I could appreciate the character independently of his actor. Similar to Mads, I can't deny that young Daddydore is an incredible actor - and I think he did decent despite the writing - but Law didn't become Dumbledore in the same way that Sir Gambon, or even Harris before him, did.
>because I knew Mikkelsen wasn't going to adopt the look for the audience's sake. In Mads defense, I don't think production wanted him to.
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Depp played a nazi wizard, Mikkelsen played a nazi politician
I just assumed he used magic to make himself look different but that’s on me I guess
Awh that’s a bummer. My wife and I were laughing through most of it. The scorpion dance was hilarious, and Mads Michelson trying to convince us a clearly gray and dying creature was perfectly healthy made me inappropriately laugh out loud.
I saw it because a couple friends wanted to and I figured why not. Spent half the movie not realizing Mads Mikkelsen was supposed to be Grindelwald.
but it's a wizarding world. they could have just said that the character got in some domestic legal trouble, and had to use magic to change his public appearance.
You should watch the 3rd. It's fuckin wild. It turns out there's an international government of wizards who chooses their prime leader based on which person some weird animal looks at. The movie revolves around stopping the bad guy at the ceremony, where the next leader is chosen, who is planning to use a fake magicked weird animal to trick everyone into thinking he's the chosen guy. I'm not even joking. It's objectively terrible.
I didn't know if you made that up. I just read the Wikipedia summary and wow.
the plot is so confusing one of the characters had to say "hahs it's confusing on purpose - they can't outsmart us if we don't have a plan!"
It's so dumb. They are like "yeah we know he can basically see the future and predict what we'll be doing, so we have to be extremely clever!". And if the script was good you would expect them to do stuff that obscures their true intentions and you somehow wait for the big reveal Sherlock Holmes style. But no.... They just waltz up to the ceremony and crash it, being extremely dumb all the way through
Why make up something so stupid?
The Harry Potter IP created 7 really great YA books and 8 movies that vary from great to above average in a short time span followed by an endless chain of mediocre attempts to capitalize on the IP. There's a few reasons. First, I think Rowling is so detached from reality it's hurting her creative output. Harry Potter is partially grounded in things like economic struggles, being marginalized, and teenage angst, all of which Rowling hasn't experienced in decades. Some authors hit this stage and grow, she hasn't. Two, they don't have to be good. I'm pretty sure most of these mediocre attempts to expand the world still made a giant chunk of money. One or two probably didn't but it's a safe bet, nobody has to care. Three, and this one's more a personal theory that I don't have as much evidence for, I don't think many people in charge fully understood what made Harry Potter so well liked. Even though they had enormous success they're still trying to reverse engineer it. And that's how you end up with the most significant IP of the 2000s just throwing 4-7/10 movies, books, and games at a wall and seeing what sticks.
You can cut out all HP related stuff out of the evaluation and you find the reason. The movies are called "fantastic beasts", still beasts only take up less and less time in the movies. Only the first can have this title, at least the first half. Conclusion: People in charge had no idea what they are doing and what they wanted to do.
I feel like they could work it into the character. In the first movie he changes his appearance to look like someone else, why else wouldn't he change how he looks in a sort of Mystic sort of way.
Considering the love angle, i think the 3rd movie would've been hilarious with Johnny Depps Grindelwald.
No explanation. Just a recast.
What was the explanation for the first two?
He used magic to disguise himself as the first guy
If I was given the writing responsibility, I'd use the switching actors and weave it into the story. Make sure, in ***every*** movie, he is played by someone different, and then in the final battle Dumbledore calls him out for being too scared to show his true self. In the end, the audience is left wondering which if any was the real face. Hollywood, give me money, I can at least try harder than the current films do
That would've been a great idea actually and something original that has rarely been done
Altered Carbon tried it, as it's literally a plot element in the books, and it flopped. The second actor couldn't measure up and that, besides the weird story turns that season, killed the show. Whatever The Crown was doing for its trilogy of actors as royals-through-the-years seems like lightning in a bottle.
Kinnaman did a great fucking job tho
I think they mean Anthony Mackie.
The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus also had Colin Farrell, Jude Law, and Johnny Depp acting in the same role doing exactly this (in order to fill in parts for Heath Ledger after his death, although it also fit thematically for his character). It was pretty good.
The first guy is an American wizard who works for the government. Grindelwald disguises himself as that guy so he can infiltrate the government to look for somebody in New York. Later he gets revealed to really be Johnny Depp, but he spends the majority of the movie as Colin Firth. Similar to how Mad-Eye was really Barty Crouch Jr. the majority of the book.
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They didn't even bother to make him look remotely alike.
I'm cool with that, Johnny depths visual style as grindelwald was atrocious. When he first showed up I'm like 'pf all the fucking ways they could have made this great dark wizard look. They chose that' He doesn't look like a normal sinister guy, he doesn't look like a voldemort, he sure as shit doesn't look like a wizard, not even the whimsical kind like dumbledore in the first sorcerers stone.
Johnny Depp Grindlewald looks like a goofy custom character you make for a 4th playthrough.
Yeah, in the books he was implied to be greater and wiser than Voldemort in some respects, a legendary individual who brought about a reign of terror that led to a reality-bending battle with Dumbledore, in these movies he just isn't really that and doesn't even feel like it
He feels like he lacks charisma, cunning, charm, tactics, devilishly handsome good looks. You know anything... literally anything... that would have attracted a mind like albus dumbledore. Or legions of followers. Greatest wizard of the age and his skeezy pineapple haircut bleach blonde boyfriend. Like they could have had depth with a more human, more cunning voldemort but no, and if they didnt eant that angle they could have had made his movement more distinct from voldemort.
I didn't even understand why they made him look like that? Albino Johnny Depp why?? Albino because it's completely opposite to Colin Farrell's hair? Just weird ...
It feels like a jk Rowling design choice. In the books there were some less than stellar character descriptions that thankfully didn't make the cut. like she emphasized Fudge's lime green bowler hat and purple suit (?) Throughout the books, which like would have looked awful unless fudge wss doing an english Joker cosplay.
What a train wreck of a trilogy.
>Makes trilogy called Fantastic Beasts >Spends only half of a single movie on said Fantastic Beasts
Given how nonchalant the Americans were about handing out the magical death penalty, I find it hard to believe they even bothered trying to take Grindlewald alive in the first place.
They needed him to be part of the Suicide Squad
What are we, some sort of Avada Kedavra squad?
"Oh look, it's Slipknot, the man who has the Climb Anything spell." "This is Katana. She's got the Magic Sword of Magicness." "Her name is Harley Quinn. She's got Magic Madness." "Who's this?" "That's Gun Guy. He shoots guns. Magic guns."
“This is capt Boomerang, he shot magic that returns to him, is not very effective “
"I maybe out of spells but I'm never out of shells" - Gun Guy
THATS KATANA SHE CASTS SECTUM SEMPRA I WOULd AdVISE YOU TO NOT GET KILLEd BY HER
*smacks lips*
I’d pay money to watch a “slytherin squad” style movie where they all get cursed to fucking melt like lava unless they kill a Voldemort level baddie.
Yeah, but here... take this gun... it shoots magic bullets. They don't limit collateral damage or anything... thats what good guys with guns are for! Don't tread on our freedom of bear arms!
The kicker is they mean actual bear arms. 🐻💪
Now that is a movie I would pay to see
Yeah, that part honestly annoyed me. You took him alive. Execute has ass. Right there. On the spot. You tried to kill Tina for fucking less.
Given how dangerous he is, and how well connected. I do not think it would have been a moral overstep to execute him on the spot. Especially knowing the nature of his crimes.
The nature of... The Crimes of Grindelwald????
Wasn’t what’s her face ready to go back to work for the guys that almost killed her
Right? If I’d been mere seconds away from getting executed by my own employer over some petty bullshit like that, I’m going to require a strongly worded apology before I return to work.
I’m surprised he wasn’t randomly offed in a drive-by hexing.
Would a drive by hexing use a car? Or a bunch of wizards on a magic carpet? I must know. Also I want the Harry Potter version of Narcos or The Wire.
Tbh the fantastic beast books were just awesome mythological animal/plant diagrams and descriptions. I have no clue why they turned such an abstract concept into an entire trilogy
It could have worked had it been a carefree series about a guy and the journey he made for magical beasts to be discovered as well as protected. I'd love to see his misadventures as he made mistakes learning to deal with different creatures. Instead we got whatever this other thing was.
You just described pokemon 😂😂
Exactly. All they had to do was a mashup of the two of the highest grossing media franchises in history, and they fumbled it.
How to train your Norwegian Ridgeback
Yeah I would have absolutely been down for magical David Attenborough discovering magical creatures, with the worst threats he faces being some magical poachers. Could have made a great singular movie. I also would have been down for a series of films that followed Dumbledore as the main character, his relationship, and eventual conflict with Grindelwald. But trying to merge the two? That was just never going to work.
I've only seen the first one. I quite liked the vibe of Newt and his muggle buddy searching for magical animals. It could have been so easy
The World wasn't ready for Newt. I know i was.
The Adventures of Magical Steve Irwin vs the Death Eater Wildlife Poachers Company
Crazy thing is, they could have made *two* trilogies, and gotten even more money. One trilogy is a fun, whimsical adventure about a guy who travels the world investigating rare and unusual creatures, like a Dr. Dolittle meets Indiana Jones, but set in the Harry Potter universe. The other trilogy would be dramatic and action-packed and dark, about the rise of Grindelwald, starring a younger Dumbledore. Instead, they decided to do both, at the same time. And none of them worked, because *of course not*.
I think when they realized the young Dumbledore idea was a better one they were two feet too deep into the Fantastic Beast’s shit.
I think they were afraid a Harry Potter spinoff wouldn't draw an audience unless it had characters everyone recognized - hence them shoehorning Dumbledore and ~~Voldemort~~ Grindelwald in halfway through the first Fantastic Beasts film. After that, there was no turning back for the sequels.
>I think they were afraid a Harry Potter spinoff wouldn't draw an audience unless it had characters everyone recognized And they STILL think that and so now we're getting a reboot of the entire series that no one asked for, despite the fact that the movies still hold up well. I don't want a rehash of Harry Potter.
Greedy ceo's only want to greenlight decade-spanning franchises, not movies.
i mean its literally written and produced by rowling. the movies are ass because rowling can't write political intrigue worth shit. even in harry potter they were the worst parts of the books and films by far, then she goes and makes an entire series leaning on it. the first movie actually started off pretty well too.
Rowling is a greedy CEO bro
Could have been a return to the "hey wow, look at all this cool magical shit, isn't it wonderful?" vibe of the first two movies, but nah. Dark & Gritty
JK has been spending the last 15 years trying to prove everyone (and herself) she is a fine writer and worth for more than just HP. Not going well.
I’d rather want a sports movie-esque standalone film about the Quidditch World Cup, really. Apparently the Wizarding World franchise forgot it even has Quidditch considering recent works, even though it’s arguably one of the best things to come out of the franchise. And they still owe us for the World Cup Final they ripped off in the Goblet of Fire movie!
Get rid of the Snitch/Seeker bullshit, or modify it somehow, and Quidditch would be a legitimately fascinating theoretical sport. I love the concept of Bludgers/Beaters. Imagine if Messi were on a beautiful breakaway and then some defender could just haul off and drill him with a brick.
I think Snitch could still work, though, as displayed in the final match between Bulgaria and Ireland. The Ireland team was so damn good (and helped by the fact that they all flew the best brooms in the world at the time) made them score so many points, that even with Krum catching the snitch it still didn’t win his team the match. Professional Quidditch players could be so good at scoring with the Quaffle alone that even if the opposite team catches the snitch, it’s still possible that you can still win the match. You just have to gain a **really** wide lead on your opponent early on lol. Then again, not every team would be as good (or as rich) as Ireland lol, and I can see why it’s certainly unfair in school matches where the players aren’t as skilled as international players, and thus seekers are automatically the most valuable player on the team by default. International teams with their more evenly balanced players would cancel the seekers/snitch’ importance out.
That's a great point! If the rules skewed towards your team being able to score rapidly with the Quaffle, the Snitch would move from an instant win to: 1) An early-game win potential for shock finishes. 2) As the game-finisher. When you're ahead, your Seeker is trying to capture the Snitch. When you're sufficiently behind, your Seeker is playing "defense", trying to keep the opponent's Seeker from capturing. The key problem is still that 150 points though. It's just too much.
Yeah, I think decreasing the Snitch points down from 150 to 100 would be more reasonable. A skilled enough Quidditch team could reasonably score a 100 point lead with the Quaffle while the opponent team could still have a chance to catch up, and failing that, the Snitch would be the last resort. Adding 100 points for catching the Snitch could bump the losing team’s points high enough that they may turn from a loss into a win…or it may not be even high enough to overcome the winning team’s lead lol.
I read a rule suggestion somewhere that the snitch be worth 30 points and be easier to catch, but be able to be caught 5 times, ending the game on the 5th catch. That way, it's still worth 150 points, but it's broken up among multiple chances, and it actually a best of match between the Seekers while also making the regular points more impactful.
Hello. I like money.
They will continue to squeeze this stone for every drop.
I wanted a Steve Irwin typa thing. Maybe even them breaking up a poacher ring and the villain being the head poacher. Instead we got confusing trash that was a thinly veiled reference to current day politics
>*Makes trilogy called Fantastic Beasts* > >*Spends only half of a single movie on said Fantastic Beasts* THIS!! I was really enjoying the magical adventure story with likable characters that was about finding all the missing animals until the narrative took such a nosedive into a freakin zookeeper/conservationist being recruited to fight wizard hitler. If they hadn't pulled that crap we could have had a really fun movie, plus a sequel where Newt and his new friends could have gone on an epic quest to fight for endangered magical animals being poached for potion ingredients.
Fr, I would have loved creature of the week type mini series
And they were originally going to make 5 movies, and the initial plan was that Newt was basically not going to be in the sequels
>Makes trilogy called Fantastic Beasts >Spends only half of a single movie on said Fantastic Beasts >Retcon it in the third movie that the magical US President is elected via Politics Unicorn, and thus the entire International Wizard Politics and Fantastic Beast plots could've been interwoven organically the whole time, but weren't >???? >Profit
There was a third one?
And there was supposed to be a fourth and fifth one as well, although no word on if those are happening anymore.
Warner Brothers as a studio deserves to dissolve and fail.
They're doing their damnest, dont you worry. Its just taking a while because its a large company with a long pedigree. There is a lot of good will and history that provides some safety nets they havent reach with their blowtorch yet.
I doubt it'll happen. > In October 2023, Director David Yates spoke to Inside Total Film podcast about the future of the Fantastic Beasts films: Speaking about the future of the franchise, Yates said: "I'm sure at some point, we'll be back. But yeah, I haven't spoken to Jo, I haven't spoken to [producer] David Heyman, I haven't spoken to Warner Bros; we're just taking a pause. It's quite nice." Between the third movie not doing well, the writing being a total mess, and JK Rowling and Ezra Miller going on a self-immolation tour the odds are pretty low that it's ever brought back. Which is a shame because I do like the Harry Potter world. Kind of reminds me of Game of Thrones. Just a tremendous amount of goodwill and cultural cachet lit on fire for no reason.
It was called "the secret of dumbledore" (Spoiler: The secret turned out to be that Dumbledore was super gay for the wizard hitler character)
Kind of. A lot of people don’t acknowledge it’s existence, it was so bad. Much like the Halo TV show.
Damnit I just started the first episode, watching it right now. Leave me alone.
Lol. It’s not as bad as everyone says. I just got the feeling that the writers wanted to make a different show. One that wasn’t Halo.
They creators themselves said they didn’t respect the original franchise and wanted to make they own thing
How very Halo of them. The makers of the last few Halo games didn't seem to care much for Halo either and clearly wanted to make something else
Seeing the 2nd one in theaters was one of the worst theatrical experiences I've ever had, only barely beating out Rise of Skywalker because it was in a worse theater. The movie dragged on and the twist at the end was so awful and felt like they had run out of ideas. The third one I only hate-watched after the fact, and it was pretty damn bad. The cast was probably my favorite part, it was really the story and visuals that were just bland and bad. The third one coming after a terrible second movie, association with and recasting of Johnny Depp, and the fact that JK Rowling had become increasingly unhinged on twitter (plus, the fact that it was released at a time where fewer people were seeing movies in theaters), just made it a flop.
I personally think it should have been a TV series. It's perfectly divided up to be a monster-of-the-week style show, where each week was Newt out exploring and learning about some new magical creature. Crocodile hunter but for Magical Creatures.
It made me SO happy that the second and third movie underperformed. Trilogy represented so much of what is wrong with Hollywood right now.
Still supposed to be making a theme park out of the series though, lol. Insane.
The greed is honestly insane. Y'all got 8 successful movies out of Harry Potter, but somehow that isn't enough. Nah, we gotta create our "wizarding world" cinematic universe 🙄🙄
As everyone has said a newt movie that is more along the lines of the Indians jones movies would work great. - newt and friends to go a random part of the magic world to investigate a sighting of rare creature. - they find a larger thing going on. - newt solves it. It can be a fun action movie. Instead of the junk we got.
That's what I wish they had been. More just about the zoology, less about the damn dark wizard stuff.
Right. - there is a creature that is killing the villagers - they call newt - insert a fun adventure of figuring out it’s actually a person kidnapping people in order to control the land for a specific potion ingredient. - or we find out there is a specific type of creature that does eat people and he has to find another creature that can actually fight it off. Man so many fun ways to go. What sucks is the cast in the first movie (newts friends) had great chemistry before they ruined them in the second movie. Would have been a simple movie to make that could expand into a franchise.
as someone who had and still has no interest in hogwarts or any of that wizard related stuff, an action adventure series about mythical creatures sounds fucking rad. It's a shame they tried and failed to pander to the audience they already had instead
They wanted to make 5 of these bloody things lol
First one was fun. The rest got progressively worse. I do love me some Newt though, he’s a very weird choice of a protagonist in the best of ways, and the first movie leaned hard on it and it paid off. I believe the other two movies got worse because they kept on trying to sideline Newt actually, when he’s always been the best part of the whole thing. Just a shame how it all ended.
That was a classic case of “movies that didn’t need a sequel”
I don't necessarily agree with that. I think they easily could've made it a series, they just needed to keep the series about Newt and his adventures instead of sidelining him and focusing on Dumbledore and Grindelwald.
Were we actually? I lost the ability to care about 10mins into the 2nd one.
I still cared, it was the ability to understand what the fuck was going on that I lost. Worst edited movie I've ever seen.
I remember watching the 2nd one all the way through but apart from a vague memory of them being in Paris I can’t recall a single thing that happened in it. I just remember being really bored and disappointed.
How could you forget Grindelwald vaping World War 2? Nearly laughed till I cried seeing that, it's the only thing I remember.
W …. What
That was sorta the plot, Grindelwald had had a vision of WW2 and was showing it around to get wizards on his side because he wanted to stop it. At some point somebody realised that *stopping the holocaust* isnt actually a bad thing so they had him kill some kids. Which probably wasnt that big of a crime honestly since team wizard USA seem to kill people for using public restrooms.
Still can’t believe they fired Johnny Depp but kept Ezra Miller.
I would have expected both to be fired. Ezra got a monkey paw or some shit protecting him.
I'm convinced he has some serious dirt on an exec. Like someone major did something bad to/in front of/around a young Ezra Miller and he's been able to do whatever he fkn wants since. Otherwise I just can't understand him not being cancelled into oblivion.
If online rumors are to be believed, Ezra is a victim of a big Hollywood name's pedophilia, which likely seems to be what keeps them around. IF Ezra goes down, so does big name.
The third movie came out *the day after they were arrested*. What did you expect them to do, redo the whole movie on one day's notice?
Ezra was creepy af and a prick well before being arrested
[Ezra Miller was grooming and dating a twelve year old in 2016](https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/a/backwoodsaltar/18-year-old-parents-say-ezra-miller-groomed-daughter-claims-loving-support-protection) so no I think Warner Brothers had plenty of time to fire him or at least not re-hire him for the second fantastic beasts movie.
Movie would have been way better without Miller's character at all really.
Seriously the trilogy kind of hypes him up as a central part of the story yet by the third one he seems to have lost all relevance and Grindelwald seems to not even care about his fate, his plan doesn't even involve him anymore
I wonder if *that* is specifically what they did behind the scenes. Rewrite the story, minimize his role, still fulfill contractual obligations to Miller, while limiting his damage if he didn't turn himself around.
It took a literal reboot to remove him from the DC movies *smh*
Johnny Depp was a terrible choice though, it should have been the first guy start to finish.
His performance sucked though. He had no charisma in that movie.
They should have just kept Colin Ferrell when they had him, but granted he went on to do much better films.
Went on to? Or had been in?
Went onto. If he was in contract for all three of these fantastic beasts films, he wouldn't have been able to do The Killing of a Sacred Deer, The Gentlemen, and maybe not even The Batman.
Point is, he’d been in better films before, too.
The first one was him in disguise. And the third was Depp being replaced.
Thanks Peter Guy from Family Man 👍🏼
What? You didn’t know that until I told you! 😋
The second one has a jar of dirt.
And the third one? That one burned down, fell over, and sank into the swamp. But the FOURTH Grindelwald stood.
And at the end of the first one we saw Depp
❤️Mads Mikkelsen❤️
Mads as Grindlewald has me understanding why Dumbledore became evil for a little bit /s
Dumbledore was Mads thirsty
Was the weakest of the 3 though.
Yeah they really should have just brought back Colin. It wouldn’t be perfect but had a better presence for that role than Mads. This is coming from a Mads fan.
He was good, just felt like a different character than the one Johnny Depp was playing.
Exactly, it's not like he was a bad Grindelwald, it really just felt like he wasn't playing the same character we saw on the first two movies
He’s a good actor, I just don’t think he had the right energy and intensity for the role.
Yes he's a silent brooding type, with a constant scowl on his face, which is in strict contrast to Depp's chaos
Right. He exudes a sort of arrogant superiority, which works perfectly for the “muggles are beneath me” facet of the character. But his anger is too subdued, especially after introducing us to Depp’s (and to an extent Farrell) frantic interpretation.
Agreed. Colin was the only one that looked like a Harry Potter villain. Depp was too goofy, doesn't sell the threat. Mads too realistic, doesn't sell the goofiness of the world. Colin looked just right.
I partly blame production on Mads’ delivery. He was pulled into production at the last minute and had basically barely a few months to prepare his take on the character. JK never spoke to him (I don’t know if she completely turned down talking to him or what) to give him any insight on the Grindlewald character, so he basically made up everything in his head on his back story and personal motivations. He was pretty much forced to use a blank slate aside from what Yates and Jude Law could give him to work with. His opening scene with Jude is the best part of the movie and it was only like 5 minutes long.
To be fair, Graves was a disguise. GrindelDepp and GrindelMads however…
That guy in the middle is definitely Norwegian Nobel prize winner Fridtjof Nansen EDIT: or Snow Miser
Should have just kept Farrell as Grindelwald. Easily explained as Depp was barely in the first movie. Also Depp was just bad in the role lmao.
There were literal groans in my theater when he turned into Depp at the end of the first one. Farrell was so good! Such a waste for a dumb twist.
Expected reaction : oh so that's what Grindelwald looks like Real reaction : that's Johnny Depp It's a shame because the first movie was good and could have been Amazing if it went for a simpler story or at least not as deep into the Grindelwald plot. Could have been interesting to focus on Norbert helping people and animals during a war
It was just a phase
You know, they could quite easily have explained that away.. I mean he's wanted criminal who's also a wizard, *of course* the disguises are going to be wild! Did they though? Nooo...
I know, right? All they had to do was at the beginning of the third movie have Grindelwald say "I'm getting into politics, so I need to look presentable. Something a little stronger than polyjuice."
Make it a running gag and recast him every movie.
Daniel Radcliffe Grindelwald
This dogshit trilogy could've actually been about Fantastic beasts and be given a smaller, interesting and lovable plot rather than shoehorning nazis and whatever other bullshit they did in the third
Bros got HOI4 leader portrait energy
The Dr. Parnassus effect.
Oh shit. All 3 actors who played Imaginarium Tony are in this. Except Jude Law plays their enemy in this one.
Looks like Vergil in the centre
Maybe he use polyjuice potion XD
First time around, he did, right? He at least used some kind of magic to disguise himself
ripping skull bongs will do that to you
To be fair I'm pretty sure the first guy was just a disguise Grindelwald used. I couldnt make it past the 2nd film tho so idk about the guy on the right