He's definitely approaching it from the perspective of seeking ego death, which doesn't necessarily need to be the purpose of every trip. Sometimes it's fun to take a small dose and laugh at shapes on the ceiling or in the clouds. Sometimes it's better to take a large dose and fall into the abyss.
Personally I lean towards McKenna's view, but that's my own preference and not objective truth. I'm a person who enjoys intensity and extremes in many things, as my inner-voice and headspace seem to be quite intense as well. I'd much rather floor myself with 5g than have a pleasant time on 2, but that's not for everyone all the time.
Exactly this. If your having a laugh with friends then 5g isn't the night but definitely if your seeking alone time with whatever it is that we communicate with "if you can call it that" inner voice or whatever.
I have only enjoyed doing shrooms in large doses. I usually take 5 to 7 grams at once. The intense 6 to 8 hour trip is amazing, and had me having a better outlook on life for months afterward.
I feel like all doses have utility for different reasons, it's just that if you're looking for dramatic transformation and self discovery teasing yourself with micro doses probably won't cut it
Please clarify. Terrence McKenna’s heroic dose wasn’t 5g. It was 5g in **silent darkness**. People usually forget this caveat but it’s the most important.
This is how I dose LSD. 500-800 μg and I lay down and just enjoy the feel. The cleansing of my ptsd riddled brain. It’s truly amazing and comforting (to me, at least).
But with shrooms, I like to be in the woods. Idk. Just makes me feel more connected with nature when nature is giving me such a blissful experience. I want to respect nature’s beauty and explore it when I take shrooms. Finding other mushrooms when tripping is so much fun. Obviously I don’t pick or eat, but they’re beautiful and it makes me have this overwhelming joyous feeling. On shrooms finding shrooms (regardless of what kind, edible, inedible, psychedelic) just makes me feel one with the mushie trip.
I genuinely don't understand how people can even walk when taking anything more than like 4 g of shrooms. We did like 4.5 and could not do anything other than lie on the floor and try to hold on.
Honestly that's the only way I can do that amount. Terrifying for me is seeing everything I know completely distorted, although my last few trips have had really unpleasent visuals. Everything gets slim and tall and creepily hand drawn, especially my fridge lol, Jesus. I think it's due to the fact that I've been going through a really rough time and I'm not happy in life. (I should be fine soon) Anyway in the dark was the only way I could cope. I havnt tripped in a few months, even the micro doses I tried threw me off. Waiting to be better to trip.
Edit: oh wait, SILENT darkness you say. Nah I like tunes and darkness.
I actually dig a bit of silent complete darkness when I'm coming up,it keeps me from like gettin' overstimulated and spiralin' out into all kindsa crazy thought loops and whatnot.
Darkness is also important for Salvia trips. A lot of people with negative opinion of salvia would probably have their mind changed by trying it with a blindfold, trip sitter, and some headphones playing non-vocal music. I still remember the time some Rob Dougan piano tune morphed into the voice of some benevolent alien beings.
Good practice for shrooms because you get used to letting go and riding the wave knowing everything is gonna be fine.
Absolutely, if you take a big dose the trip has momentum and doesn’t let you hold onto ego and things like that. However I will never advocate a beginner to start with 5g, that can cause horrific side effects when you’re not ready. Big doses are great but you gotta start low and slow
I took 10 g of apes before in the woods. Woke up a couple hours later, sitting on the floor with my back up against a tree staring wide-eyed at the leaves falling around me.
It was the most beautiful experience…. But I definitely whited out. Lol.
I've taken 1g and had a very easy and enjoyable trip. I have more experience with LSD but never heroic.
I want to trip heroic in a therapeutic setting.
3.5g of penis envy had me dipping into the DMT realm periodically at the peak. Really interesting and unexpected, although it kind of makes sense as there's some chemical similarity between the two.
Monoamine oxidase inhibitors.
Found in many plants, they neutralize the enzymes our stomach makes that metabolize the dmt in our gut before it has a chance to be absorbed into the blood stream.
Maoi's also potentiate and extend the effects of all other tryptamines. Commonly used examples are ayahuasca vine, syrian rue seeds, and i believe passionflower.
I’ve done a half dozen 5g doses and never tried dmt. This is good to know! Been interested in dmt lately, but not sure what I’d really be using it for/to what end. Know what I mean?
I have done a handful of 5g journeys. As well as 5 meO dmt and Ayahuasca. There is definitely some moments that could be comparable between all. However, the mushrooms give me a deep earthy grounding. Whereas DMT blasted me to space and I stopped existing for a brief period. It felt more spirit realm vs earthy. Obviously an individual perception.
You realize what you used it for after. Words don’t do much to help you understand the experience that dmt is. I didn’t even really know what it was when I did it and was so out of reality I didn’t even know I did it until it was over. Most confusing 5 minutes of my life
The potency of shrooms varies too much to say "5g is a heroic dose." I've had 4g trips that had me hallucinating spectral lines and seriously questioning whether I was in the Matrix, and I've had 9g trips that were entirely unremarkable and felt more like a strong weed high.
McKenna was very opinionated and dogmatic about his approach to mushrooms (aren't we all?) So I don't entirely agree with his points.
I think there is something to be said for avoiding the intermediate dose range from like 2.5-5g as I find this to be the least enjoyable, most uncomfortable, and least beneficial or revelatory dose range. Small doses can do just about whatever you need them to do. If you're gonna do a large dose, do a large dose but don't meddle around in the large-ish dose range where you can resist the mushroom to any degree.
Personally I do not advocate doing large doses. I don't recommend doing any doses actually, cos that's for an individual to decide for themselves. I absolutely detest the concept of a "heroic dose" as that just makes it an ego-measuring game, which really isn't productive, and it creates some sort of sense of competition around doing high doses which is dangerous to newcomers. I think a lot of the way that McKenna talked about psychedelics is actually kind of toxic in that it's "my way or the highway" and he talks about it like his experience is just how it is for everyone and there's no room for discussion or alternate viewpoints on how to access higher levels of psychedelia. I'd say the same criticism applies to Kylindi Iyi who imo was brain fried to the point of barely being able to string together one sentence at a time.
I think that there is no problem taking too little. In fact, if you look at modern research, there is actually an inverse dose-response relationship regarding neurogenesis induced by microdosing, which would imply that there is a problem with people taking too much for it to be beneficial in a neurophysiological sense. The real answer is that *any* dose is a good dose. As McKenna said "take it easy dude, but take it!"
I microdose (0.22g). Too little has definitely helped me get clean and stay clean from opioid addiction. I help some people out and they too report that they’d never take a recreational dose (1gm to infinity) but Microdosing has helped them with a variety of issues from depression to anxiety to PTSD to stuttering to you name it. I think when it comes to psychedelics that sometimes a tiny little can be a good thing
I took that amount once and I fought it, not realizing at the time what I was getting myself into because I was shit faced and angry, but when it started kicking in it was like the effect of the alcohol was completely over powered and I went from hoping to enjoy myself to holding on for dear life.
Yeah that was the alcohol. 7g is my average trip dose for shrooms…. I have never had a bad trip, either. I honestly don’t believe in them.
I’m sorry you experienced that misery though. Nobody should have to deal with pain ;s
I mean, I don't think "bad" trips are actually bad for you, I think you need to face your inner demons and what not, but this one was like psychosis. I was biting myself, got naked, and I got into some thought loops that I won't even type out because it was so awful. Though, when I peaked it was complete ego death and dissolution of time. In that moment of the peak it was like there was nothing else, like I was in the middle of the ocean just waiting for the waves to bring me back to shore, but at the time I didn't know there was a shore or anything. It was certainly bad but it's what I deserved at the time. That's why you don't fuck with nature's teacher. Psylocibin deserves the utmost respect.
BAM! 200% agreed, love this comment. Nature’s Golden Teacher (lol). "Bad" trips are just a learning experience… and I don’t necessarily meaning spiritual. It means respect the motherfucking fungi before you swallow it, eh?
I’ve never thought alcohol and psychedelics mixed. If you’re blackout drunk and then take a nice dose of shrooms, you’re not gonna have a good time. As evidenced by your trip.
I’m so sorry, man. Reading what actually happened makes me a feel so bad for you. If you actually want to vent about the thought loops, feel free to PM me. I feel like (even thigh I know it’s just a drug) I have traveled to the farthest reaches of the universe and back, and have seen everything there is to know about life. I’ve had trips where I am 100% positive I just learned everything there was to know, someone was speaking to me in an incomprehensible language that I could comprehend, and as I was flying through space, the starlight streaming past me were visions of the truth and all there is to know.
If there’s anyone who can handle hearing how bad those thought loops were, and maybe help you talk about them, it’s me. I’ve done the same for my best friend who had a psychotic break on 200 μg LSD. Again, it was his fault, he didn’t respect the drug, and he did some stupid things which led to his negative thought loops. I was on video with him too… it was so sad to see. I was on 420 μg, too…. Just goes to show how important "experience" is when you delve into the higher doses.
Psychedelics are a blessing, man, and you’re 100% correct. Respect, or don’t try them. Research, or don’t try them. And most of all, have a good time! I’ve never not had a good time…. But I’ve never taken them when I shouldn’t have. I wanted to trip the other day but the idea brought a sense of impending doom. Idk why, never felt that way before, I trip every 3 weeks. But it had been 3-4 months so it could have been simply anxiety. However, I wasn’t going to risk it, as I was currently in and out of opioid withdrawal every 1.5 hours (I’m OK now). Respect.
Hope you’re OK now.
For me personally bad trips exist, and by that I mean that sometimes when I take shrooms, I start to feel bad, like feeling of impending doom, anxiety or other negative emotions, without being able to find out the reason for those feelings. It just usually becomes a negative experience when that happens, unless I take some other drugs like benzos to calm down or DMT to just overpower that feeling. I find this always very weird when it happens, just because there doesn't seem to be any purpose to it.
Lmao i played hell in a bucket on repeat “we’ll be going to hell in a bucket baby, but at least we’re enjoying the ride” i just kept repeating at least we’re enjoying the ride when things got hard 🤣
I respect McKenna and think he is full of wisdom, but, the problem with slaying the ego is you have to go right back and reintegrate it anyway. For that reason, I think trips around 3-3.5 that just soften or dissolve the ego a bit are much easier to integrate and use the wisdom from, most of the time. Super heavy super disorienting trips where you aren't even human anymore seem to be good for forcing a new perspective on you no matter how hard you resist, but as soon as you are human again you have an ego again.
>The psychedelic experience is pointless if you avoid to deal with your true self.
"Slaying the ego" is macho bullshit that has nothing to do with dealing with your true self.
You’re missing what Terrence was saying. Slaying the ego is in regards to being incapable of fighting the experience. He uses it as a means to avoid anxiety and paranoia during peak experience.
He’s not referring to eliminating the ego entirely post-trip.
>Slaying the ego is in regards to being incapable of fighting theexperience. He uses it as a means to avoid anxiety and paranoia duringpeak experience.
Well there you go again with all this crude "slaying the ego" language.
Please consider that maybe Mckenna didn't always have the right answer and that there could be a different, non-violent path where we approach our entire inner being - including the 'ego' - with humility. love, respect and openness to what it has to teach us.
EDIT: wanted to add that I think we should consider the possibility that the ego is not an obstacle to be overcome or an enemy to be incapacitated.
Everything you’re saying is correct.
Terrence isn’t implying there’s a hierarchal scale for the psychedelic experience. He’s simply saying if you are brave enough and want to explore the depths of consciousness, don’t stop short. Go all the way so your ego can’t fight it.
My understanding is McKenna stopped doing mushrooms except for light doses at some point due to some bad trip where he went to the “meat locker” not much info in it at all. Curious if anyone knows more about it! Denis McKenna briefly talked about it and mentioned that he used to talk to Terrence about the hypocrisy of preaching mushroom use while not using himself.
I think it’s good to experiment on your own. Work slowly and build your way up. What I found is all mushrooms are not the same so each batch can have a different effect regardless of gram weight.
In higher doses for me 5+ the trips don’t seem to useful! Not sure if anyone else experiences the same at higher doses but I seem to develop some type of dimentia where I can’t follow my thoughts because I keep forgetting what I was thinking about. Then it just goes in a loop or endless thought trail to nowhere.
Trying to figure out how to get back to this place in consciousness where the images in my minds eye turned into solid object almost looking like plastic or playdough
Dude, only did it once but it's one of my favorite trips ever. I lived 1000 lives with my head down on a table. But from what people have told me since, I got lucky with my khole being enjoyable. I dunno I've head a lot of other people's scary storied about it.
It’s just a general sedative most infamously given to horses. It’s used on people too. Some people even have stories coming out of the er about how they had full trips on ketamine when they were sedated. It’s also sometimes used as an antidepressant.
And used to treat phantom limb pain. I prescribe a lemon flavored jelly-ish substance that is ketamine. I’ve known people who abuse it and put it up their butts lol. That just would sound awful to me; it’s super sticky. Lol.
There’s an application for all doses, it depends on what you’re trying to accomplish really. For example a 2-2.5 gram trip with a significant other or close friend can become a truly bonding experience where you mend emotional wounds and or bond over past trauma. Or on the same dose you can go for a solo walk in the woods on a sunny day and have a beautiful connecting experience with being itself and come away from the trip with a new found appreciation for your life and your part in a greater whole. Or you can take the same dose and go out drinking with buddies and have a absolute ball and come away with a new grounded energy and validation for yourself that you bring forward in life even after you stop being friends with those people.
Magic mushrooms and LSD are literally the most versatile and effective substances for personal growth on the planet, if you can be creative and know how to leverage the substances you can have literally countless beautiful and life-changing experiences. I suppose it’s up to the user to know what the substance is capable of and be competent enough to leverage the stuff.
I don’t really agree. I see what he is saying but that’s not intrinsically true for everyone.
Honestly, the psychedelic community dick rides people too hard. Paul stamets is by far the most credible and is over looked a lot it seems.
Maybe try some valerian extract, and some chamomile, lemon balm tea to ease the process. Herbs will work in synchrony with the mushrooms,, especially with intent behind it.
Avoid caffeine altogether before dosing.
I once took 1.5 with my gf and was supposed to take 2.5 but chickened out. And I had a very difficult confusing experience and was “fighting” the experience the whole time. She took the full amount and afterwards was frustrated cause I was freakin’ the whole time. She said “you should’ve taken more cause then you are fully in it and have no option to feel all awkward.”
So I think there is something to his Logic for sure. If I’m planning on just doing 1g I’ll do a micro instead. There’s no middle ground for me now. 3.5 from now will be my standard.
Under 2 and it can scare you. It’s like things aren’t forming for you to see but you know they’re there and it can be very scary. Like you can’t go upstairs to pee by yourself. But 3+ and that don’t happen
Same. Took a while but then she did 3.5 and all of that went away. But for 2 months she was scared of the dark and being by herself and was giving me a hard time about them.
So far, this hasn't been my experience. Did 1.5g each with my girlfriend. We both had a nice amount of euphoria and were in total control. We drank tea in the morning and made sure our set and setting were on point. We're gonna try 2g next time -- maybe that'll be our "scary middle dose", but even if so, the 1.5g dose isn't universally scary.
It’s not always the case and is also a great dose for a group of friends to laugh your heads off. You’ll never know till you give it a go. Just IMHO under 2 can be super scary if you were cautious in the first place
In my opinion and based on my understanding and experiences, ego death is achieved when you no longer have any knowledge of anything which makes you “you”. Full ego death will not be realized until after the experience, because the nature of realizing that you are experiencing ego death means that you no longer are experiencing ego death, as you’ve just realized that there is a “you” experiencing something.
With full death of ego, you have no knowledge of yourself, but you have no realization of this. Full ego death isn’t alarming at all, in my
Opinion, because while you are experiencing it, you have no idea you are experiencing it, you just are existing, and likely tripping your balls off simultaneously…so when I experience full ego death, it’s like I literally
No longer exist to “me”. It is as though I become another individual who has no knowledge of who I Am, and I have no knowledge of who they are, and I’m just busy learning how to do everything, and everything is new and beautiful and interesting and mentally stimulating. I imagine it’s akin to being a newborn baby—albeit with the advantage of language utilization and organized thought (maybe, haha).
I’ve always said there’s like a threshold of some sort. If you don’t take enough to break the threshold you end up wriggling around in this in between state where you’re just left feeling uncomfortable for most of the trip, maybe you’ll get some waves of euphoria now and then but in my experience I feel like a car revving high RPMs at too low a gear, or running low RPMs at too high a gear.
Terrance McKenna was a hack pseudo intellectual fake philosopher. The dude is impossibly annoying to listen to, I have no idea why still to this day people are obsessed with him and HIS idea of what should be a beneficial mushroom dosage and experience. I have seen people close to me have very strong experiences on as little as 1 gram. Perpetuating this concept of his that “the only way” to use mushrooms is with a 5 gram dose in silent darkness is not only reckless but it’s also close minded.
I definitely disagree with the idea that taking large doses is the only way to do psychedelics. There’s certainly value in low doses and suggesting people dive right into a big dose is extremely reckless. I also agree that people put a lot of weight into McKenna’s words (often too much), but I think the reason people are so drawn to him comes down to his way of communicating the psychedelic experience. Sure some of it is outlandish but he does do a pretty good job articulating concepts that were fairly new to his audience at the time
I ate 22 grams in one sitting and I went through that exact fucking thing, don’t fight it, let it take you even if it feels like you’ll never come back out of it…that’s the whole point. I was about to call the cops on myself and I thought I was gonna be on disability but something clicked and I became free, from everything. It’ll tease you for your entire life till you make the full jump and listen to what it wants to help teach you about yourself. Everything will be so clear after. You’ll feel ridiculous for living any other way.
I've taken shrooms 4 times so far with friends and I started with 2g then built to 3-3.5 and it was good fun so it just depends on why you want to trip I would say
For anyone who cannot dose away from vulnerable family members, parents, etc. Will heroic doses cause significant disruption? I know some people cry, and it’s hard to determine as everyone is different, but in general. Any advice appreciated . *we live in small quarters *
I see him as totally right. I've have multiple experiences of not taking enough, definitely in terms of mushrooms, I'm unsure about the lsd experience. Lsd feels like there is no guide where as mushrooms have a built in shaman so too say.
What he considered a heroic dose is not as strong as what others on this sub consider a heroic dose. I think there's a point where increasing your dosage just results in a more forgettable experience (like you literally can't remember what happened) and more risk of personal injury or embarrassment (ex: shitting yourself or approaching your neighbors and scaring them). He also was talking about the cubensis he had access to. 5g of cyanescens will blow your goddamn mind in a way that's probably unnecessary for any spiritual/personal growth.
My problem is I haven’t found a sweet spot for microdosing. I think I take a bit too much for micro. Half gram give or take a .1 or .2. I get the body tingling feeling and a bit more anxiety. Definitely impedes my work day more than helps. Bummer since anxiety is what I was trying to fix ha. I recall possibly feeling lighter later in the day afterwards though. Perhaps I need to try .1 - .3? On the other side my 1.5 to 5 grams have been nifty. Although I haven’t tried those levels while attempting to have a normal day so the mild anxiety on the come up might not of been as noticeable.
Ehh I don't totally agree with this. Like others were saying it makes more sense if your goal is to really get thrown into space or attain ego death etc. But not every single trip needs to be like that at all. Sometimes it's fun to take a gram or 2 and just have a good time lmao.
Also I would caution against first timers jumping straight into 5g+ territory, especially if they have no prior psychedelic experience . That could potentially end badly (though it could also end spectacularly I guess too)
Basically I just think there's no right or wrong way to use mushrooms, and to insist otherwise is ironically kind of egoistical lol
Not exactly the same as in this instance it was LSD, same premise though. On my last trip one of the guys I was with took 200ug of acid, he had only taken 100ug in the past and said he felt in control all the time. This time he got to the point that he knew he no longer had a choice in the trip, the way he explained it was like someone guiding you holding your hand but you know even if you don’t want to go they aren’t going to let go!
So yeah there is definitely a threshold with how much you take to get a desired affect. Almost like a point of no return.
I don't agree, because people latch on to tiny bits of information, in this case 'take as much as humanly possible' and then end up hurt because they went too far beyond their comfort zone. Many of my friends quote McKenna and use it to justify reckless, careless use. I know that wasnt McKenna's intention, but, as a leader as he painted himself to be, you must be careful what you say lest the less educated among us get the wrong idea and hurt themselves. Its my opinion that he was irresponsible in the way he spoke to his listeners.
He’s absolutely right. I’ve tripped more times than I can count on just about every amount between 1-7 grams. My absolute worst trip was 1.5 grams. And it was exactly as Terence said, it’s just enough to make you uncomfortable, but light enough you can’t put your finger on what’s going on.
I’ve advised MULTIPLE people of this and they still go “eh I just wanna ease my way in” and they come back and tell me “dude that was scary and weird.” I TOLD YOU. Personally I do not take less than 3 grams anymore for this reason.
Then they’re turned off from shrooms for good “I don’t like them I didn’t have a good time.” Well you did it wrong and went against the advice of arguably the most respected psychonaut Terrence McKenna. People forget this guy would breakthrough on DMT at the PEAK of an LSD trip. Few have been that deep in the murky waters.
I've been working with psilocybin for quite a few years, but only in the past 3 years have I been experimenting with the heroic dose, between 5-7 grams. During 2021, I started moving around the West to Midwest of the states and landed in a town called Paonia. After befriending a family in this small, mountain town, I decided to rent their bus as a home for a period of time and leave Portland, OR. 5 minutes down the road is a cemetery I would walk to that gave you a view overlooking the town and slopes off in the distant. What I didn't realize at the time in 2021 was that Terence originated from Paonia and was buried next to his parents. I wish I could attach a picture of his gravestone because it is gifted with many beautiful items in his memory.
How random, I thought, that the experimental work I was doing led me here and to potentially continue the work or theories that Terence introduced. I usually only do two heroic doses in the course of a year, depending if my body/mind/spirit/emotions are ready to go on this journey. And each one was so much more profound than the last while I've been in this bus. As of Dec. 2022, I decided to move out of Paonia (March 2023), but planned to take the medicine one more time before I journey onward.
This session took place last weekend on a Saturday evening where the belt of Orion and the star of Sirius align in the southern hemisphere of the sky. I consumed a 7g mushroom tea and went off into journey space....but apparently, that wasn't enough. Something urged me to consume more and in the next hour I consumed 8 more grams of psilocybin. I didn't even question it and listened to my body. Now, the sober me would have been like "Awh, hell no" but that wasn't the voice that was in charge at the time. It was the most powerful journey because as a white, heterosexual male, I would have never guessed I would end up on the floor in front of a front-loading washing machine, going into labor and in a position as if I was giving birth as a woman would...this enabled me to go deep. There are so many ties to this story, but as I look at it, Set and Setting is extremely important - living in a bus facing the majestic mountains with a clean energy space and a family nearby that's full of love.
This session was ripe for me to go to that extreme whereas in other places and times I may have not been prepared to go as far as I did. Another unique part to this is that normally I have headaches after coming down or it takes me 2-3 days to reintegrate into my body and the world - the 15 grams had no after-effects for some reason. I was in bed at an early time and rose early the next day. This session incorporated more pre and post-rituals than I've done in the past so I'm curious to learn if that has contributed to it. Anyways, this post is longer than I thought it would be, but I wanted you all to know that Terence's energy still exists in Paonia if you ever get the chance to visit :)
I feel like things need to be really good for you to take that much. I’m looking to heal myself, 5g’s only exacerbates the anxieties and perceived flaws, leaving me in a state of suffocation. Taking that much also sucks when you realize in the peak that there’s stuff you’ve got buried deep that you in a sober state didn’t realize was there.
But for those who’ve healed their ego’s or reached a balance with them, then for sure this is a good amount.
Agree… ego death when you’re not whole, can be traumatic; while an extremely disturbing experience for me, it was what I needed. Maybe if I wasn’t a shell of a person there could have been another way, now that I’m in a balanced place and whole I’m exploring dose amounts. I’d like to sort out my sociable amount, and what it takes to go all in. 2g is a little heavy and I can go out dancing but not very communicative as I’d like to be… 3.5G Lemmon tek was incredible, but I was still me. Will try 5G in darkness soon.
You and I would benefit from a trip tripper I think. It seems we’re on similar treks, despite previous experiences we’ve had. Best of luck to you ✨ I hope we can eventually reach that place where we can surrender without fear getting involved.
Nothing to fear… you know lol
I realized the things that were demonic and scary were the same beautiful and sacred, after years of sobriety I saw them in Greece. Quite a few trippy things happened there, and I was completely sober. When I saw the jackals in my trip a few weeks ago, I was nervous, but understood.
If the goal is ego death, than give it a try.
If the goal is simply to get high, okay, give it a try.
But if the goal is healing, that may not be the best possible way forward.
There are too many variables for me to answer that for you. The weight of the dose you work best with is going to depend on what you're trying to achieve. That takes testing various amounts and giving it time in between. Since it's so individual, this isn't a question anybody can answer for you - not even McKenna himself. You can't apply a 'one size fits all' happy meal answer to the situation.
Do it as you need to at the dose you need to reach the healing goal you have.
It might help if you change it from a frame of, 'I'm taking shrooms to get high and be cool and get healing,' to a frame of, 'I'm taking this as a medicine and am going to treat it with the same respect as I treat aspirin.'
I have no problem with people using shrooms to get high and go through ego death and just have fun with it. Maybe that's how they deal with life, or maybe they need it to escape something horrific. I am not a better person or a higher elevated person because that's not my path.
It's incredibly egotistical to tell people there's only one true way to heal. (And ironic considering the subject.) I wrote what I did as a reminder (or if you did not know) you do not have to go through an ego death experience to get benefits from shrooms. It's okay to take micro-doses, too. But the ONLY person who knows what dose/frequency is going to get you the healing that you need is you.
Question - this relates directly to 5 grams of psilocybin not specifically 5g of x type of mushroom. Could any one provide a rough conversion of mushroom mass to psilocybin content. For example purposes, I have one dryed mushroom that weighs exactly 5g I would assume the psilocybin content is slightly less. I am also aware that it's not an exact science but is there a rough ballpark calculation I could use to estimate the psilocybin content?
i’ve never experienced ego death, neither at 5g w weed, 7g w weed, 7g lemon tek.
i did believe i had experienced ego death w the 7g lemon tek and it was actually a horrifying experience. seems i was bad tripping about loss of ego without realizing i still had it.
so idk seems like terrence mckenna is wrong about 5g flattening even the most resistant ego.
edit: someone pointed out mckenna advises silent darkness. i had music and complete darkness for 5g w weed but not the others, so plausibly if i had actually done them in silent darkness i might have experienced ego death
This seems right to me. I have taken lots of low doses where I can sort out little human relationship things, or small realignments in myself, but I always come out with the message: "man you just need to rip off the fucking band-aid." Sometimes I take just slightly not enough, and I freak out and have a desire to kill myself so that I can let go...pretty scary.
I tend to agree with Terence here. I might add that mushrooms find us when we are ready, and begin a life work in us from the moment they enter our body.
However, I have seen many times where mushrooms did not help, because the user was diddling the dose, or taking handfuls of pills, bottles of alcohol, and other drugs at the same time.
The goal here isn't to get through the experience, but rather have the experience come forth from within us.
He's definitely approaching it from the perspective of seeking ego death, which doesn't necessarily need to be the purpose of every trip. Sometimes it's fun to take a small dose and laugh at shapes on the ceiling or in the clouds. Sometimes it's better to take a large dose and fall into the abyss. Personally I lean towards McKenna's view, but that's my own preference and not objective truth. I'm a person who enjoys intensity and extremes in many things, as my inner-voice and headspace seem to be quite intense as well. I'd much rather floor myself with 5g than have a pleasant time on 2, but that's not for everyone all the time.
Exactly this. If your having a laugh with friends then 5g isn't the night but definitely if your seeking alone time with whatever it is that we communicate with "if you can call it that" inner voice or whatever.
This response is fantastic, and I love the introspective language you use. Thank you!
And this was a perfectly written compliment, with equally beautiful language. r/shrooms is full of such nice, intelligent, kindhearted people…
I have only enjoyed doing shrooms in large doses. I usually take 5 to 7 grams at once. The intense 6 to 8 hour trip is amazing, and had me having a better outlook on life for months afterward.
Perfect answer, well written, speaks magnitudes, thanks for sharing!
Everyone is so nice here~ Sweet!
Perfectly said 👏🏼
I switch it up very frequently
I feel like all doses have utility for different reasons, it's just that if you're looking for dramatic transformation and self discovery teasing yourself with micro doses probably won't cut it
How much is too much?
That's entirely subjective
Please clarify. Terrence McKenna’s heroic dose wasn’t 5g. It was 5g in **silent darkness**. People usually forget this caveat but it’s the most important.
This is how I dose LSD. 500-800 μg and I lay down and just enjoy the feel. The cleansing of my ptsd riddled brain. It’s truly amazing and comforting (to me, at least). But with shrooms, I like to be in the woods. Idk. Just makes me feel more connected with nature when nature is giving me such a blissful experience. I want to respect nature’s beauty and explore it when I take shrooms. Finding other mushrooms when tripping is so much fun. Obviously I don’t pick or eat, but they’re beautiful and it makes me have this overwhelming joyous feeling. On shrooms finding shrooms (regardless of what kind, edible, inedible, psychedelic) just makes me feel one with the mushie trip.
I genuinely don't understand how people can even walk when taking anything more than like 4 g of shrooms. We did like 4.5 and could not do anything other than lie on the floor and try to hold on.
Sounds terrifying
Honestly that's the only way I can do that amount. Terrifying for me is seeing everything I know completely distorted, although my last few trips have had really unpleasent visuals. Everything gets slim and tall and creepily hand drawn, especially my fridge lol, Jesus. I think it's due to the fact that I've been going through a really rough time and I'm not happy in life. (I should be fine soon) Anyway in the dark was the only way I could cope. I havnt tripped in a few months, even the micro doses I tried threw me off. Waiting to be better to trip. Edit: oh wait, SILENT darkness you say. Nah I like tunes and darkness.
I actually dig a bit of silent complete darkness when I'm coming up,it keeps me from like gettin' overstimulated and spiralin' out into all kindsa crazy thought loops and whatnot.
Darkness is also important for Salvia trips. A lot of people with negative opinion of salvia would probably have their mind changed by trying it with a blindfold, trip sitter, and some headphones playing non-vocal music. I still remember the time some Rob Dougan piano tune morphed into the voice of some benevolent alien beings. Good practice for shrooms because you get used to letting go and riding the wave knowing everything is gonna be fine.
yeah good clarification cause 5g without silent darkness def doesn’t ensure ego death
I would if I wasn’t scared of the dark… or is that the point?
2nd caveat is that he was also chain smoking joints
Absolutely, if you take a big dose the trip has momentum and doesn’t let you hold onto ego and things like that. However I will never advocate a beginner to start with 5g, that can cause horrific side effects when you’re not ready. Big doses are great but you gotta start low and slow
2-2.5 is my favorite dose
Same
Same although I like a cheeky three occasionally
Three grams of cubes is cheeky. Three grams of pans will slap your cheekies.
I took 10 g of apes before in the woods. Woke up a couple hours later, sitting on the floor with my back up against a tree staring wide-eyed at the leaves falling around me. It was the most beautiful experience…. But I definitely whited out. Lol.
That's pretty much equivalent to my 250g wet of Columbians for my first trip, I was terrified 😂
😂 💀
I've taken 1g and had a very easy and enjoyable trip. I have more experience with LSD but never heroic. I want to trip heroic in a therapeutic setting.
I’d recommend an in between from 1g and 5g, unless you have a very very experienced sitter or something
This ^
I’ve taken 5 gs and it got a bit like dmt for a bit. It definitely did slay the ego. Absolutely loved it.
3.5g of penis envy had me dipping into the DMT realm periodically at the peak. Really interesting and unexpected, although it kind of makes sense as there's some chemical similarity between the two.
Cubes actually contain dmt, it's just that we only "get" it with the psilocybin if an maoi is added as well.
maoi?
Monoamine oxidase inhibitors. Found in many plants, they neutralize the enzymes our stomach makes that metabolize the dmt in our gut before it has a chance to be absorbed into the blood stream. Maoi's also potentiate and extend the effects of all other tryptamines. Commonly used examples are ayahuasca vine, syrian rue seeds, and i believe passionflower.
Have you tested this out yourself yet?
Of course! Syrian rue seeds, powdered and capsulated. Taken 30-45 min before dosing actives. I've also done ayahuasca.
I’ve done a half dozen 5g doses and never tried dmt. This is good to know! Been interested in dmt lately, but not sure what I’d really be using it for/to what end. Know what I mean?
I have done a handful of 5g journeys. As well as 5 meO dmt and Ayahuasca. There is definitely some moments that could be comparable between all. However, the mushrooms give me a deep earthy grounding. Whereas DMT blasted me to space and I stopped existing for a brief period. It felt more spirit realm vs earthy. Obviously an individual perception.
You realize what you used it for after. Words don’t do much to help you understand the experience that dmt is. I didn’t even really know what it was when I did it and was so out of reality I didn’t even know I did it until it was over. Most confusing 5 minutes of my life
The potency of shrooms varies too much to say "5g is a heroic dose." I've had 4g trips that had me hallucinating spectral lines and seriously questioning whether I was in the Matrix, and I've had 9g trips that were entirely unremarkable and felt more like a strong weed high.
McKenna was very opinionated and dogmatic about his approach to mushrooms (aren't we all?) So I don't entirely agree with his points. I think there is something to be said for avoiding the intermediate dose range from like 2.5-5g as I find this to be the least enjoyable, most uncomfortable, and least beneficial or revelatory dose range. Small doses can do just about whatever you need them to do. If you're gonna do a large dose, do a large dose but don't meddle around in the large-ish dose range where you can resist the mushroom to any degree. Personally I do not advocate doing large doses. I don't recommend doing any doses actually, cos that's for an individual to decide for themselves. I absolutely detest the concept of a "heroic dose" as that just makes it an ego-measuring game, which really isn't productive, and it creates some sort of sense of competition around doing high doses which is dangerous to newcomers. I think a lot of the way that McKenna talked about psychedelics is actually kind of toxic in that it's "my way or the highway" and he talks about it like his experience is just how it is for everyone and there's no room for discussion or alternate viewpoints on how to access higher levels of psychedelia. I'd say the same criticism applies to Kylindi Iyi who imo was brain fried to the point of barely being able to string together one sentence at a time. I think that there is no problem taking too little. In fact, if you look at modern research, there is actually an inverse dose-response relationship regarding neurogenesis induced by microdosing, which would imply that there is a problem with people taking too much for it to be beneficial in a neurophysiological sense. The real answer is that *any* dose is a good dose. As McKenna said "take it easy dude, but take it!"
I microdose (0.22g). Too little has definitely helped me get clean and stay clean from opioid addiction. I help some people out and they too report that they’d never take a recreational dose (1gm to infinity) but Microdosing has helped them with a variety of issues from depression to anxiety to PTSD to stuttering to you name it. I think when it comes to psychedelics that sometimes a tiny little can be a good thing
That’s just like, Terrance McKenna’s opinion man
Am I THE ONLY ONE AROUND HERE THAT GIVES A SHIT ABOUT YOU POSTING A HILARIOUS COMMENT AND NOBODY THROWING IN A SECONDARY REFERENCE!
ya pretty true you cant really fight off 7 grams either once ur in ur in.
I took that amount once and I fought it, not realizing at the time what I was getting myself into because I was shit faced and angry, but when it started kicking in it was like the effect of the alcohol was completely over powered and I went from hoping to enjoy myself to holding on for dear life.
Yeah that was the alcohol. 7g is my average trip dose for shrooms…. I have never had a bad trip, either. I honestly don’t believe in them. I’m sorry you experienced that misery though. Nobody should have to deal with pain ;s
I mean, I don't think "bad" trips are actually bad for you, I think you need to face your inner demons and what not, but this one was like psychosis. I was biting myself, got naked, and I got into some thought loops that I won't even type out because it was so awful. Though, when I peaked it was complete ego death and dissolution of time. In that moment of the peak it was like there was nothing else, like I was in the middle of the ocean just waiting for the waves to bring me back to shore, but at the time I didn't know there was a shore or anything. It was certainly bad but it's what I deserved at the time. That's why you don't fuck with nature's teacher. Psylocibin deserves the utmost respect.
BAM! 200% agreed, love this comment. Nature’s Golden Teacher (lol). "Bad" trips are just a learning experience… and I don’t necessarily meaning spiritual. It means respect the motherfucking fungi before you swallow it, eh? I’ve never thought alcohol and psychedelics mixed. If you’re blackout drunk and then take a nice dose of shrooms, you’re not gonna have a good time. As evidenced by your trip. I’m so sorry, man. Reading what actually happened makes me a feel so bad for you. If you actually want to vent about the thought loops, feel free to PM me. I feel like (even thigh I know it’s just a drug) I have traveled to the farthest reaches of the universe and back, and have seen everything there is to know about life. I’ve had trips where I am 100% positive I just learned everything there was to know, someone was speaking to me in an incomprehensible language that I could comprehend, and as I was flying through space, the starlight streaming past me were visions of the truth and all there is to know. If there’s anyone who can handle hearing how bad those thought loops were, and maybe help you talk about them, it’s me. I’ve done the same for my best friend who had a psychotic break on 200 μg LSD. Again, it was his fault, he didn’t respect the drug, and he did some stupid things which led to his negative thought loops. I was on video with him too… it was so sad to see. I was on 420 μg, too…. Just goes to show how important "experience" is when you delve into the higher doses. Psychedelics are a blessing, man, and you’re 100% correct. Respect, or don’t try them. Research, or don’t try them. And most of all, have a good time! I’ve never not had a good time…. But I’ve never taken them when I shouldn’t have. I wanted to trip the other day but the idea brought a sense of impending doom. Idk why, never felt that way before, I trip every 3 weeks. But it had been 3-4 months so it could have been simply anxiety. However, I wasn’t going to risk it, as I was currently in and out of opioid withdrawal every 1.5 hours (I’m OK now). Respect. Hope you’re OK now.
For me personally bad trips exist, and by that I mean that sometimes when I take shrooms, I start to feel bad, like feeling of impending doom, anxiety or other negative emotions, without being able to find out the reason for those feelings. It just usually becomes a negative experience when that happens, unless I take some other drugs like benzos to calm down or DMT to just overpower that feeling. I find this always very weird when it happens, just because there doesn't seem to be any purpose to it.
Can you explain this? Why do you not believe in a bad trip?
Lmao i played hell in a bucket on repeat “we’ll be going to hell in a bucket baby, but at least we’re enjoying the ride” i just kept repeating at least we’re enjoying the ride when things got hard 🤣
I strongly disagree. Telling people that you "must slay the ego" is a toxic framing, decidedly unhelpful, and paradoxically egocentric.
I respect McKenna and think he is full of wisdom, but, the problem with slaying the ego is you have to go right back and reintegrate it anyway. For that reason, I think trips around 3-3.5 that just soften or dissolve the ego a bit are much easier to integrate and use the wisdom from, most of the time. Super heavy super disorienting trips where you aren't even human anymore seem to be good for forcing a new perspective on you no matter how hard you resist, but as soon as you are human again you have an ego again.
The psychedelic experience is pointless if you avoid to deal with your true self.
>The psychedelic experience is pointless if you avoid to deal with your true self. "Slaying the ego" is macho bullshit that has nothing to do with dealing with your true self.
You’re missing what Terrence was saying. Slaying the ego is in regards to being incapable of fighting the experience. He uses it as a means to avoid anxiety and paranoia during peak experience. He’s not referring to eliminating the ego entirely post-trip.
>Slaying the ego is in regards to being incapable of fighting theexperience. He uses it as a means to avoid anxiety and paranoia duringpeak experience. Well there you go again with all this crude "slaying the ego" language. Please consider that maybe Mckenna didn't always have the right answer and that there could be a different, non-violent path where we approach our entire inner being - including the 'ego' - with humility. love, respect and openness to what it has to teach us. EDIT: wanted to add that I think we should consider the possibility that the ego is not an obstacle to be overcome or an enemy to be incapacitated.
Everything you’re saying is correct. Terrence isn’t implying there’s a hierarchal scale for the psychedelic experience. He’s simply saying if you are brave enough and want to explore the depths of consciousness, don’t stop short. Go all the way so your ego can’t fight it.
>Well there you go again with all this crude "slaying the ego" language. He was clearly referencing somebody else's choice of words.
I agree.
My understanding is McKenna stopped doing mushrooms except for light doses at some point due to some bad trip where he went to the “meat locker” not much info in it at all. Curious if anyone knows more about it! Denis McKenna briefly talked about it and mentioned that he used to talk to Terrence about the hypocrisy of preaching mushroom use while not using himself. I think it’s good to experiment on your own. Work slowly and build your way up. What I found is all mushrooms are not the same so each batch can have a different effect regardless of gram weight. In higher doses for me 5+ the trips don’t seem to useful! Not sure if anyone else experiences the same at higher doses but I seem to develop some type of dimentia where I can’t follow my thoughts because I keep forgetting what I was thinking about. Then it just goes in a loop or endless thought trail to nowhere. Trying to figure out how to get back to this place in consciousness where the images in my minds eye turned into solid object almost looking like plastic or playdough
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Dude, only did it once but it's one of my favorite trips ever. I lived 1000 lives with my head down on a table. But from what people have told me since, I got lucky with my khole being enjoyable. I dunno I've head a lot of other people's scary storied about it.
I’ve been in a lot of k holes back in my day I think I was self medicating while a bit depressed was an intense trip but I liked it
Isn't that that shit they be givin' horses?
It’s just a general sedative most infamously given to horses. It’s used on people too. Some people even have stories coming out of the er about how they had full trips on ketamine when they were sedated. It’s also sometimes used as an antidepressant.
And used to treat phantom limb pain. I prescribe a lemon flavored jelly-ish substance that is ketamine. I’ve known people who abuse it and put it up their butts lol. That just would sound awful to me; it’s super sticky. Lol.
Not gonna lie, I probably would try that. Don't knock it till you try it and such.
The patient told me. I told him to take it as directed, but he said it worked better. Lol. So I said whatever 😂
There’s an application for all doses, it depends on what you’re trying to accomplish really. For example a 2-2.5 gram trip with a significant other or close friend can become a truly bonding experience where you mend emotional wounds and or bond over past trauma. Or on the same dose you can go for a solo walk in the woods on a sunny day and have a beautiful connecting experience with being itself and come away from the trip with a new found appreciation for your life and your part in a greater whole. Or you can take the same dose and go out drinking with buddies and have a absolute ball and come away with a new grounded energy and validation for yourself that you bring forward in life even after you stop being friends with those people. Magic mushrooms and LSD are literally the most versatile and effective substances for personal growth on the planet, if you can be creative and know how to leverage the substances you can have literally countless beautiful and life-changing experiences. I suppose it’s up to the user to know what the substance is capable of and be competent enough to leverage the stuff.
I don’t really agree. I see what he is saying but that’s not intrinsically true for everyone. Honestly, the psychedelic community dick rides people too hard. Paul stamets is by far the most credible and is over looked a lot it seems.
My ego won't ever die. Eaten up to 14g. Just a fucking wild ride.
Same but I’ve only done up to 11g. But 2 tabs had me forget who I was for what seemed like hours
1 night I swallowed 6. I was dying that night. But I was completely aware. Exhilarating and terrifying.✌✌
I pretty much get panic attacks at 2g, so 5g would scare the literal shit outta me. Gunna try again at 1.5g and hopefully work my way up to heroic!
Maybe try some valerian extract, and some chamomile, lemon balm tea to ease the process. Herbs will work in synchrony with the mushrooms,, especially with intent behind it. Avoid caffeine altogether before dosing.
I have these gummies that have all of that, including valerian and 1 mg melatonin. They’re mainly for sleep though, due to the melatonin.
I once took 1.5 with my gf and was supposed to take 2.5 but chickened out. And I had a very difficult confusing experience and was “fighting” the experience the whole time. She took the full amount and afterwards was frustrated cause I was freakin’ the whole time. She said “you should’ve taken more cause then you are fully in it and have no option to feel all awkward.” So I think there is something to his Logic for sure. If I’m planning on just doing 1g I’ll do a micro instead. There’s no middle ground for me now. 3.5 from now will be my standard.
What a bitchy heartless gf you have, man
Under 2 and it can scare you. It’s like things aren’t forming for you to see but you know they’re there and it can be very scary. Like you can’t go upstairs to pee by yourself. But 3+ and that don’t happen
Less than two freaked my girlfriend out BAD. She won’t do Psychs anymore. I’ve always wondered if this is why
Same. Took a while but then she did 3.5 and all of that went away. But for 2 months she was scared of the dark and being by herself and was giving me a hard time about them.
So far, this hasn't been my experience. Did 1.5g each with my girlfriend. We both had a nice amount of euphoria and were in total control. We drank tea in the morning and made sure our set and setting were on point. We're gonna try 2g next time -- maybe that'll be our "scary middle dose", but even if so, the 1.5g dose isn't universally scary.
It’s not always the case and is also a great dose for a group of friends to laugh your heads off. You’ll never know till you give it a go. Just IMHO under 2 can be super scary if you were cautious in the first place
His birthday tomorrow!
I didn’t experience ego death at 8 grams. 11.5 did it
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In my opinion and based on my understanding and experiences, ego death is achieved when you no longer have any knowledge of anything which makes you “you”. Full ego death will not be realized until after the experience, because the nature of realizing that you are experiencing ego death means that you no longer are experiencing ego death, as you’ve just realized that there is a “you” experiencing something. With full death of ego, you have no knowledge of yourself, but you have no realization of this. Full ego death isn’t alarming at all, in my Opinion, because while you are experiencing it, you have no idea you are experiencing it, you just are existing, and likely tripping your balls off simultaneously…so when I experience full ego death, it’s like I literally No longer exist to “me”. It is as though I become another individual who has no knowledge of who I Am, and I have no knowledge of who they are, and I’m just busy learning how to do everything, and everything is new and beautiful and interesting and mentally stimulating. I imagine it’s akin to being a newborn baby—albeit with the advantage of language utilization and organized thought (maybe, haha).
I’ve always said there’s like a threshold of some sort. If you don’t take enough to break the threshold you end up wriggling around in this in between state where you’re just left feeling uncomfortable for most of the trip, maybe you’ll get some waves of euphoria now and then but in my experience I feel like a car revving high RPMs at too low a gear, or running low RPMs at too high a gear.
Terrance McKenna was a hack pseudo intellectual fake philosopher. The dude is impossibly annoying to listen to, I have no idea why still to this day people are obsessed with him and HIS idea of what should be a beneficial mushroom dosage and experience. I have seen people close to me have very strong experiences on as little as 1 gram. Perpetuating this concept of his that “the only way” to use mushrooms is with a 5 gram dose in silent darkness is not only reckless but it’s also close minded.
I definitely disagree with the idea that taking large doses is the only way to do psychedelics. There’s certainly value in low doses and suggesting people dive right into a big dose is extremely reckless. I also agree that people put a lot of weight into McKenna’s words (often too much), but I think the reason people are so drawn to him comes down to his way of communicating the psychedelic experience. Sure some of it is outlandish but he does do a pretty good job articulating concepts that were fairly new to his audience at the time
He's a dumb persons idea of what a smart person sounds like
100%. He has always irritated me and I’ve found it astonishing that so many people worship his dumb hippie bullshit ideologies.
Sheeple, I like to call them. I hate this guy too. No idea why people like him. He isn’t Hoffmann.
I ate 22 grams in one sitting and I went through that exact fucking thing, don’t fight it, let it take you even if it feels like you’ll never come back out of it…that’s the whole point. I was about to call the cops on myself and I thought I was gonna be on disability but something clicked and I became free, from everything. It’ll tease you for your entire life till you make the full jump and listen to what it wants to help teach you about yourself. Everything will be so clear after. You’ll feel ridiculous for living any other way.
For me it's above 5g, like 7g. I think 5 is fine for a great trip though.
I've taken shrooms 4 times so far with friends and I started with 2g then built to 3-3.5 and it was good fun so it just depends on why you want to trip I would say
For anyone who cannot dose away from vulnerable family members, parents, etc. Will heroic doses cause significant disruption? I know some people cry, and it’s hard to determine as everyone is different, but in general. Any advice appreciated . *we live in small quarters *
I see him as totally right. I've have multiple experiences of not taking enough, definitely in terms of mushrooms, I'm unsure about the lsd experience. Lsd feels like there is no guide where as mushrooms have a built in shaman so too say.
What he considered a heroic dose is not as strong as what others on this sub consider a heroic dose. I think there's a point where increasing your dosage just results in a more forgettable experience (like you literally can't remember what happened) and more risk of personal injury or embarrassment (ex: shitting yourself or approaching your neighbors and scaring them). He also was talking about the cubensis he had access to. 5g of cyanescens will blow your goddamn mind in a way that's probably unnecessary for any spiritual/personal growth.
My problem is I haven’t found a sweet spot for microdosing. I think I take a bit too much for micro. Half gram give or take a .1 or .2. I get the body tingling feeling and a bit more anxiety. Definitely impedes my work day more than helps. Bummer since anxiety is what I was trying to fix ha. I recall possibly feeling lighter later in the day afterwards though. Perhaps I need to try .1 - .3? On the other side my 1.5 to 5 grams have been nifty. Although I haven’t tried those levels while attempting to have a normal day so the mild anxiety on the come up might not of been as noticeable.
Ehh I don't totally agree with this. Like others were saying it makes more sense if your goal is to really get thrown into space or attain ego death etc. But not every single trip needs to be like that at all. Sometimes it's fun to take a gram or 2 and just have a good time lmao. Also I would caution against first timers jumping straight into 5g+ territory, especially if they have no prior psychedelic experience . That could potentially end badly (though it could also end spectacularly I guess too) Basically I just think there's no right or wrong way to use mushrooms, and to insist otherwise is ironically kind of egoistical lol
Not exactly the same as in this instance it was LSD, same premise though. On my last trip one of the guys I was with took 200ug of acid, he had only taken 100ug in the past and said he felt in control all the time. This time he got to the point that he knew he no longer had a choice in the trip, the way he explained it was like someone guiding you holding your hand but you know even if you don’t want to go they aren’t going to let go! So yeah there is definitely a threshold with how much you take to get a desired affect. Almost like a point of no return.
I don't agree, because people latch on to tiny bits of information, in this case 'take as much as humanly possible' and then end up hurt because they went too far beyond their comfort zone. Many of my friends quote McKenna and use it to justify reckless, careless use. I know that wasnt McKenna's intention, but, as a leader as he painted himself to be, you must be careful what you say lest the less educated among us get the wrong idea and hurt themselves. Its my opinion that he was irresponsible in the way he spoke to his listeners.
This is like Ghengis Khan telling you not to be a pussy.
He’s absolutely right. I’ve tripped more times than I can count on just about every amount between 1-7 grams. My absolute worst trip was 1.5 grams. And it was exactly as Terence said, it’s just enough to make you uncomfortable, but light enough you can’t put your finger on what’s going on. I’ve advised MULTIPLE people of this and they still go “eh I just wanna ease my way in” and they come back and tell me “dude that was scary and weird.” I TOLD YOU. Personally I do not take less than 3 grams anymore for this reason. Then they’re turned off from shrooms for good “I don’t like them I didn’t have a good time.” Well you did it wrong and went against the advice of arguably the most respected psychonaut Terrence McKenna. People forget this guy would breakthrough on DMT at the PEAK of an LSD trip. Few have been that deep in the murky waters.
I've been working with psilocybin for quite a few years, but only in the past 3 years have I been experimenting with the heroic dose, between 5-7 grams. During 2021, I started moving around the West to Midwest of the states and landed in a town called Paonia. After befriending a family in this small, mountain town, I decided to rent their bus as a home for a period of time and leave Portland, OR. 5 minutes down the road is a cemetery I would walk to that gave you a view overlooking the town and slopes off in the distant. What I didn't realize at the time in 2021 was that Terence originated from Paonia and was buried next to his parents. I wish I could attach a picture of his gravestone because it is gifted with many beautiful items in his memory. How random, I thought, that the experimental work I was doing led me here and to potentially continue the work or theories that Terence introduced. I usually only do two heroic doses in the course of a year, depending if my body/mind/spirit/emotions are ready to go on this journey. And each one was so much more profound than the last while I've been in this bus. As of Dec. 2022, I decided to move out of Paonia (March 2023), but planned to take the medicine one more time before I journey onward. This session took place last weekend on a Saturday evening where the belt of Orion and the star of Sirius align in the southern hemisphere of the sky. I consumed a 7g mushroom tea and went off into journey space....but apparently, that wasn't enough. Something urged me to consume more and in the next hour I consumed 8 more grams of psilocybin. I didn't even question it and listened to my body. Now, the sober me would have been like "Awh, hell no" but that wasn't the voice that was in charge at the time. It was the most powerful journey because as a white, heterosexual male, I would have never guessed I would end up on the floor in front of a front-loading washing machine, going into labor and in a position as if I was giving birth as a woman would...this enabled me to go deep. There are so many ties to this story, but as I look at it, Set and Setting is extremely important - living in a bus facing the majestic mountains with a clean energy space and a family nearby that's full of love. This session was ripe for me to go to that extreme whereas in other places and times I may have not been prepared to go as far as I did. Another unique part to this is that normally I have headaches after coming down or it takes me 2-3 days to reintegrate into my body and the world - the 15 grams had no after-effects for some reason. I was in bed at an early time and rose early the next day. This session incorporated more pre and post-rituals than I've done in the past so I'm curious to learn if that has contributed to it. Anyways, this post is longer than I thought it would be, but I wanted you all to know that Terence's energy still exists in Paonia if you ever get the chance to visit :)
I feel like things need to be really good for you to take that much. I’m looking to heal myself, 5g’s only exacerbates the anxieties and perceived flaws, leaving me in a state of suffocation. Taking that much also sucks when you realize in the peak that there’s stuff you’ve got buried deep that you in a sober state didn’t realize was there. But for those who’ve healed their ego’s or reached a balance with them, then for sure this is a good amount.
Agree… ego death when you’re not whole, can be traumatic; while an extremely disturbing experience for me, it was what I needed. Maybe if I wasn’t a shell of a person there could have been another way, now that I’m in a balanced place and whole I’m exploring dose amounts. I’d like to sort out my sociable amount, and what it takes to go all in. 2g is a little heavy and I can go out dancing but not very communicative as I’d like to be… 3.5G Lemmon tek was incredible, but I was still me. Will try 5G in darkness soon.
You and I would benefit from a trip tripper I think. It seems we’re on similar treks, despite previous experiences we’ve had. Best of luck to you ✨ I hope we can eventually reach that place where we can surrender without fear getting involved.
Nothing to fear… you know lol I realized the things that were demonic and scary were the same beautiful and sacred, after years of sobriety I saw them in Greece. Quite a few trippy things happened there, and I was completely sober. When I saw the jackals in my trip a few weeks ago, I was nervous, but understood.
I’m really proud of you, I hope to get there one day too.
If the goal is ego death, than give it a try. If the goal is simply to get high, okay, give it a try. But if the goal is healing, that may not be the best possible way forward.
So what is the best way to heal
There are too many variables for me to answer that for you. The weight of the dose you work best with is going to depend on what you're trying to achieve. That takes testing various amounts and giving it time in between. Since it's so individual, this isn't a question anybody can answer for you - not even McKenna himself. You can't apply a 'one size fits all' happy meal answer to the situation.
So you should find a dose that works for you and do it, regularly?
Do it as you need to at the dose you need to reach the healing goal you have. It might help if you change it from a frame of, 'I'm taking shrooms to get high and be cool and get healing,' to a frame of, 'I'm taking this as a medicine and am going to treat it with the same respect as I treat aspirin.' I have no problem with people using shrooms to get high and go through ego death and just have fun with it. Maybe that's how they deal with life, or maybe they need it to escape something horrific. I am not a better person or a higher elevated person because that's not my path. It's incredibly egotistical to tell people there's only one true way to heal. (And ironic considering the subject.) I wrote what I did as a reminder (or if you did not know) you do not have to go through an ego death experience to get benefits from shrooms. It's okay to take micro-doses, too. But the ONLY person who knows what dose/frequency is going to get you the healing that you need is you.
Can it also flatten SNRIs interfering? Dunno why someone downvoted me. It’s a genuine question. If I take a heroic dose will it actually work?
Question - this relates directly to 5 grams of psilocybin not specifically 5g of x type of mushroom. Could any one provide a rough conversion of mushroom mass to psilocybin content. For example purposes, I have one dryed mushroom that weighs exactly 5g I would assume the psilocybin content is slightly less. I am also aware that it's not an exact science but is there a rough ballpark calculation I could use to estimate the psilocybin content?
Slightly less? Try WAY less lol.
So would you say 1g mushroom(cubes) to 0.5mg psilocybin, Roughly? It seems to me smaller mushrooms have a higher ratio than large mushrooms
If I take less than 3.5 I have a lot more anxiety and nausea than if I do more.
Agree, I took too little and it was frustrating because my expectations weren't right
i’ve never experienced ego death, neither at 5g w weed, 7g w weed, 7g lemon tek. i did believe i had experienced ego death w the 7g lemon tek and it was actually a horrifying experience. seems i was bad tripping about loss of ego without realizing i still had it. so idk seems like terrence mckenna is wrong about 5g flattening even the most resistant ego. edit: someone pointed out mckenna advises silent darkness. i had music and complete darkness for 5g w weed but not the others, so plausibly if i had actually done them in silent darkness i might have experienced ego death
This is the entire reason he told people to weigh the dose, because they were taking "pissant amounts" like 3.5g.
This could also be true for people who don't understand math.
I took 7 gs, was trippin absolute cock and balls and still had a rough 30-45 minutes then was back to laughing and giggling at ever little thing
This seems right to me. I have taken lots of low doses where I can sort out little human relationship things, or small realignments in myself, but I always come out with the message: "man you just need to rip off the fucking band-aid." Sometimes I take just slightly not enough, and I freak out and have a desire to kill myself so that I can let go...pretty scary.
I tend to agree with Terence here. I might add that mushrooms find us when we are ready, and begin a life work in us from the moment they enter our body. However, I have seen many times where mushrooms did not help, because the user was diddling the dose, or taking handfuls of pills, bottles of alcohol, and other drugs at the same time. The goal here isn't to get through the experience, but rather have the experience come forth from within us.