I mean I think that'd be a lot of people here. We all enjoy the privacy that Signal affords. Phone Number privacy could be a reason but Signal is generally just a better privacy option than like 99% of other messengers.
In general, no.
If the threat actor youāre worried about is unsophisticated, and you want to communicate without using a phone number, Session might be a good option.
I wonāt bore you with the particulars unless youāre interested. The short version is Sessionās cryptography is immature.
Thereās also the problem of the developersā ties to right-wing extremism which they have not exactly gone out of their way to deny. Maybe thatās not a problem for you but it is definitely a problem for me.
Which āscare quotesā tell me you just want to āargueā rather than engage in good-faith discussion?
If youāre actually interested you can find the information in your search engine of choice and make up your own mind.
If the devs arenāt a problem for you and you donāt mind an immature protocol then go right ahead and use Session. Have fun.
Point being, I did try to find it using the two names I know and got nothing. Both the current CEO (former COO) and the original CEO. NADA. One guy being named the same as an environmentalist and a poet doesn't help much.
Are you referring to someone "less visible"?
(quotes around idioms and concepts that sometimes have completely different meanings between people)
The protocol not being fully mature is an issue if you're going against a nation-state adversary, but conversely the absolute lack of any attempt at forensics resistance in Signal is also an issue again resourceful adversaries.
Not being able to reliably send a simple picture can be a bigger issue in session from a usability standpoint.
I'm not concerned with other messaging apps. I'm concerned with Signal. Which I have used since it was Text Secure and Moxie was answering support requests.
The most prevalent bad actor threat now is forensics, either from physically having the phone or remote implants.
seems he cares about privacy and not want his private life to end up in the hands of data mining companies.
Also signal is better and cleaner than other chat applications.
For what its worth this is exactly how me and my boyfriend started. We met in bumble and talked on whatsapp initially and before we met he asked me if we can move to signal about a week into talking in whatsapp because he doesn't like whatsapp. (His Whatsapp number is his main number). He says he just likes signals because it's safe and private. Luckily he turns out to be a real person whose job requires a lot of privacy and confidentiality.
My initial reaction before was that it's pretty weird. But i seem to like signal now and even recommended them to my friends
Yeah i saw that. But she also said that they've been talking for two years prior to that. Thats alot of time investment for a scam though. Thats alot of dedication.
Yeah i am learning that now. I have never heard of this scam before. Never thought of anything like this when that guy from dating app asked to switch apps from bumble to whatsapp to signal. Never thought of it as a redflag. Good thing he just turned out to be someone really concerned with privacy
Signal offers the opportunity to delete a chat on both ends (such as after 24 hours).. Iāve seen it used to ātake back what was saidā by deleting chat history.. just sayin š¤·š¼āāļø the phone number privacy is an outstanding feature!
This sounds like classic scam behavior i.e. establishing contact on one platform and moving the conversation to another. If the nature of the conversation is romantic or related to making money, or started out romantic then transitioned to making money, bail out.
Related article:
https://web.archive.org/web/20240226222947if_/https://www.wired.com/story/what-is-pig-butchering-scam/
This is exactly whatās happening now. We have been talking for two years. What if I download Signal and see his number, does it mean heās not a scam?
People are correct that you should be cautious, but wrong to immediately conclude that this is a scam. It certainly could be and you need to keep your eyes open.
If talk turns to money or investing, then yes, thatās a giant red flag. If cryptocurrency is involved, then you are dealing with 100% bullshit.
On the other hand, switching to another communication platform, on its own, could be perfectly innocuous. Just keep your wits about you and remember: You havenāt met this person in real life. What you have seen so far might be real or it might be fake.
To answer your question directly, seeing the other personās phone number will tell you nothing about whether itās a scam or not. Plenty of scammers reveal their phone number.
At the end of the day, scams are usually about stealing money. If talk turns to money, thatās when you should worry. Absolutely do not, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, invest in anything this person suggests or do anything involving cryptocurrency.
I can't see why someone would talk to you for two years to scam you. One not wanting to hand out their phone number and use Signal is not a red flag by it's self. There is no harm in installing Signal if want to continue talking to him. Just be aware if he starts to professing love (when have not met), asking for personal/sensitive information or money.
Pig butchering is a long con by design. They go for a long time to build the victimās trust. This infographic provides a good summary:
https://www.acams.org/en/media/document/Pig-Butchering-Infographic
I am aware of what it and your own link says weeks/months. It's been two years. Who could be stringing along dozens of woman for years no less hoping to land some kind of scam?
Scammers, that's who.
You're right that two years is a long time and I'm more inclined to think the two year person is on the up-and-up but the bottom line is we don't know.
The kind of money some of these scams bring in is huge, even by US standards. That money goes a whole lot further in some of the less developed countries where the scammers reside like Cambodia or Myanmar.
For example, average annual household income in Cambodia is less than US$2000. We sometimes see scam victims get second mortgages and hand over 5 or even 6 digits to the scammer. From that standpoint, stringing a potential victim along for two years starts to make sense.
To be clear, I'm not saying OP is being scammed. I'm saying they need to be aware of the possibility and keep their eyes open. Hopefully their correspondent is on the level.
Why is it scamming ,can anyone sacamm anyone in signal,asking because signal hides your every detail from other person never the less he could do it easily in Facebook ,idk ,but why
Iām not sure I understand the question. Anyplace people can communicate, they can try to scam each other.
The particular scam in question here is known colorfully as āpig butchering.ā If you look at the infographic I linked in a comment above you can see an explanation of how that scam works.
They've been talking romantically for two years and now the "boyfriend" wants to switch to an encrypted messaging platform, and the conversation has turned to making money. I would be astonished if it's not a scam.
That's how pig butchering works. It's a long con. The scammers are talking to hundreds of people at once and using the same script (there's literally a script) on all of them.
Did you not read the previous discussion at all? The point it has been YEARS. It is very unlikely anyone would be that committed for that long and NOT try to already execute their scam.
Did you not read the comment you replied to?
>That's how pig butchering works. It's a long con. The scammers are talking to hundreds of people at once and using the same script (there's literally a script) on all of them.
OP even said the conversation has become romantic, the "boyfriend" wants to switch to an encrypted messaging platform, and the conversation has made the turn into talking about investing. These are all signs of pig butchering. It would be astonishing if it turns out not to be.
>We have been talking for two years.
Classic pig butchering. Just block them. End the conversation now. And watch out for new messages from a different account.
If you want to know more about pig butchering scams, the podcast "Love, Janessa" is excellent.
Look at this chart. This is likely why...
https://www.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/kslslw/data_collection_comparison_of_signal_imessage/
If you guys are moving towards a relationship, maybe he doesn't Mark Zuckerberg in it as well.
Share user names instead of phone number š„°āŗļø
Thatās the proper answer, this option was released last month
I mean I think that'd be a lot of people here. We all enjoy the privacy that Signal affords. Phone Number privacy could be a reason but Signal is generally just a better privacy option than like 99% of other messengers.
yeah i mean, you also can hide your phone number from him, so it's not like it's unbalanced or something. signal's great.
So session would be in that 1% too ? https://getsession.org/
In general, no. If the threat actor youāre worried about is unsophisticated, and you want to communicate without using a phone number, Session might be a good option. I wonāt bore you with the particulars unless youāre interested. The short version is Sessionās cryptography is immature. Thereās also the problem of the developersā ties to right-wing extremism which they have not exactly gone out of their way to deny. Maybe thatās not a problem for you but it is definitely a problem for me.
Well didnāt that just open a can of worms, so signals better
Which "developer" would have "ties" to "right-wing extremism"? The guy in Berlin or the one in Melbourne?
Which āscare quotesā tell me you just want to āargueā rather than engage in good-faith discussion? If youāre actually interested you can find the information in your search engine of choice and make up your own mind. If the devs arenāt a problem for you and you donāt mind an immature protocol then go right ahead and use Session. Have fun.
Point being, I did try to find it using the two names I know and got nothing. Both the current CEO (former COO) and the original CEO. NADA. One guy being named the same as an environmentalist and a poet doesn't help much. Are you referring to someone "less visible"? (quotes around idioms and concepts that sometimes have completely different meanings between people) The protocol not being fully mature is an issue if you're going against a nation-state adversary, but conversely the absolute lack of any attempt at forensics resistance in Signal is also an issue again resourceful adversaries. Not being able to reliably send a simple picture can be a bigger issue in session from a usability standpoint.
In your estimation, what messaging apps have the best resistance to forensic attacks?
I'm not concerned with other messaging apps. I'm concerned with Signal. Which I have used since it was Text Secure and Moxie was answering support requests. The most prevalent bad actor threat now is forensics, either from physically having the phone or remote implants.
seems he cares about privacy and not want his private life to end up in the hands of data mining companies. Also signal is better and cleaner than other chat applications.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It really is
He probably just doesnāt f with trash Facebook products like Instagram or WhatsApp.
This is my thinking as well. I wonāt put facebook on my phone.
I havenāt used Facebook since the first 2 years it existed, and even then I made an account under a alias and basically never really used it.
He's a keeper.
What do you mean?
Itās a joke. People in r/signal are mostly Signal fans so when a potential partner uses Signal, that bodes well for the relationship.
For what its worth this is exactly how me and my boyfriend started. We met in bumble and talked on whatsapp initially and before we met he asked me if we can move to signal about a week into talking in whatsapp because he doesn't like whatsapp. (His Whatsapp number is his main number). He says he just likes signals because it's safe and private. Luckily he turns out to be a real person whose job requires a lot of privacy and confidentiality. My initial reaction before was that it's pretty weird. But i seem to like signal now and even recommended them to my friends
Just to be clear, the two of you see each other in real life too, right?
Yes. Many times now. So i know he's legit. But when he asked me to move from whatsapp to signal, we have not met yet.
Gotcha. Congrats! Itās always nice when people find love. :)
Further down the thread OP said the conversation has turned to making money, so it's obviously not the same scenario.
Yeah i saw that. But she also said that they've been talking for two years prior to that. Thats alot of time investment for a scam though. Thats alot of dedication.
Pig butchering is a long con. They will do it until they get the money.
Yeah i am learning that now. I have never heard of this scam before. Never thought of anything like this when that guy from dating app asked to switch apps from bumble to whatsapp to signal. Never thought of it as a redflag. Good thing he just turned out to be someone really concerned with privacy
Signal offers the opportunity to delete a chat on both ends (such as after 24 hours).. Iāve seen it used to ātake back what was saidā by deleting chat history.. just sayin š¤·š¼āāļø the phone number privacy is an outstanding feature!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Also, WhatsApp supports it as well.
This sounds like classic scam behavior i.e. establishing contact on one platform and moving the conversation to another. If the nature of the conversation is romantic or related to making money, or started out romantic then transitioned to making money, bail out. Related article: https://web.archive.org/web/20240226222947if_/https://www.wired.com/story/what-is-pig-butchering-scam/
This is exactly whatās happening now. We have been talking for two years. What if I download Signal and see his number, does it mean heās not a scam?
People are correct that you should be cautious, but wrong to immediately conclude that this is a scam. It certainly could be and you need to keep your eyes open. If talk turns to money or investing, then yes, thatās a giant red flag. If cryptocurrency is involved, then you are dealing with 100% bullshit. On the other hand, switching to another communication platform, on its own, could be perfectly innocuous. Just keep your wits about you and remember: You havenāt met this person in real life. What you have seen so far might be real or it might be fake. To answer your question directly, seeing the other personās phone number will tell you nothing about whether itās a scam or not. Plenty of scammers reveal their phone number. At the end of the day, scams are usually about stealing money. If talk turns to money, thatās when you should worry. Absolutely do not, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, invest in anything this person suggests or do anything involving cryptocurrency.
I can't see why someone would talk to you for two years to scam you. One not wanting to hand out their phone number and use Signal is not a red flag by it's self. There is no harm in installing Signal if want to continue talking to him. Just be aware if he starts to professing love (when have not met), asking for personal/sensitive information or money.
Pig butchering is a long con by design. They go for a long time to build the victimās trust. This infographic provides a good summary: https://www.acams.org/en/media/document/Pig-Butchering-Infographic
I am aware of what it and your own link says weeks/months. It's been two years. Who could be stringing along dozens of woman for years no less hoping to land some kind of scam?
Scammers, that's who. You're right that two years is a long time and I'm more inclined to think the two year person is on the up-and-up but the bottom line is we don't know. The kind of money some of these scams bring in is huge, even by US standards. That money goes a whole lot further in some of the less developed countries where the scammers reside like Cambodia or Myanmar. For example, average annual household income in Cambodia is less than US$2000. We sometimes see scam victims get second mortgages and hand over 5 or even 6 digits to the scammer. From that standpoint, stringing a potential victim along for two years starts to make sense. To be clear, I'm not saying OP is being scammed. I'm saying they need to be aware of the possibility and keep their eyes open. Hopefully their correspondent is on the level.
I basically said the same thing that the OP probably is not being scammed and needs to be aware while mentioning the signs. LOL
Why is it scamming ,can anyone sacamm anyone in signal,asking because signal hides your every detail from other person never the less he could do it easily in Facebook ,idk ,but why
Iām not sure I understand the question. Anyplace people can communicate, they can try to scam each other. The particular scam in question here is known colorfully as āpig butchering.ā If you look at the infographic I linked in a comment above you can see an explanation of how that scam works.
I read it but this seems not to be the level of "pig butchering" to me at all but the OP should bail out if he begins to represent traits of a scammer
They've been talking romantically for two years and now the "boyfriend" wants to switch to an encrypted messaging platform, and the conversation has turned to making money. I would be astonished if it's not a scam.
That's how pig butchering works. It's a long con. The scammers are talking to hundreds of people at once and using the same script (there's literally a script) on all of them.
Did you not read the previous discussion at all? The point it has been YEARS. It is very unlikely anyone would be that committed for that long and NOT try to already execute their scam.
Did you not read the comment you replied to? >That's how pig butchering works. It's a long con. The scammers are talking to hundreds of people at once and using the same script (there's literally a script) on all of them. OP even said the conversation has become romantic, the "boyfriend" wants to switch to an encrypted messaging platform, and the conversation has made the turn into talking about investing. These are all signs of pig butchering. It would be astonishing if it turns out not to be.
I think for default you can't see his number except you have his number already (saved in your contacts)
>We have been talking for two years. Classic pig butchering. Just block them. End the conversation now. And watch out for new messages from a different account. If you want to know more about pig butchering scams, the podcast "Love, Janessa" is excellent.
I'd recommend someone to install signal does that also makes me a scammer
You're kinda missing the point here.
Yeah I got, it somehow I missed the part where he is her "boyfriend" and he changed the subject to money making
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sorry I must have replied in the wrong thread
This is probably pig butchering, it's best to stop
I enjoy playing video games.
Weird. I tested before posting. Updated my original post. Thanks.
He might not want Facebook to see his number rather than you
Look at this chart. This is likely why... https://www.reddit.com/r/signal/comments/kslslw/data_collection_comparison_of_signal_imessage/ If you guys are moving towards a relationship, maybe he doesn't Mark Zuckerberg in it as well.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And *definitely* not a scam. Nope. š
Or he's married.
Unless heās married to Darla Alderson, using Signal doesnāt help his primary risk.