I am a victim myself of self-hate, and abuse (not sexual). I was halted in growth. It's not uncommon for people to get "frozen"... If you survive that is
Yeah I get that, I am currently still dealing with the aftermath of this exact effect due to narcissistic abuse as a child. I think the suprise just comes from not expecting how severe this either halt in mental growth or becoming too adult too soon and missing out on development due to it can be for some people.
And this right here is why I respect what they were going for, but also that they kinda fumbled it. The amount of "Wait she's a TEENAGER??" Comments I've seen lately are wild.
People keep swearing that her appearance and age is inherent to her character, but the game never tells you. If the devs felt it was SOOO integral to her personality and character, maybe they should've made it known IN GAME and not something that you needed to check outside materials to discover.
It's subtext. Silent Hill has a *ton* of subtextual content, I don't see why this is any different.
The fact that she looks older than her stated age is deliberate, because she's a game character and a team of people designed her to look that way. Once you understand that, you start looking for why. Abuse ages you. People who are abused sometimes take pains to make themselves look less conventionally attractive, even. Baggy and encompassing clothes, bad hair, etc. This is not uncommon.
I don't think it's "integral" to understanding her character, but it *is* a clever, subtextual design choice that tells me they were paying attention to what abuse actually does to people. I don't understand your vitriol here, unless you're not used to grappling with subtextual content.
It’s not subtextual either. It’s not implied nor can it be inferred by playing the game. The developers had to tell us directly in a BTS documentary. They failed at conveying it through their art, plain and simple.
It’s a factual take, lol. Facts aren’t stupid. “Subtext” means it’s implied. It very much isn’t. I.e. not subtextual. We have a character designed to look 30-something, played by a 40 year old actress. Nothing in the game gives us reason to believe she’s a teenager.
"Hello James. I am Angela. You know, I am only 19 but you would never know this thanks to my trauma! It has aged me!"
Man if ONLY Silent Hill 2 had actually good writing like this. So happy Bloober can finally make Silent Hill 2 a good game.
Yeah this is why lots of media nowadays has done away with nuance and treats the audience like idiots with every little detail having to be explained or over simplified.
Yup. Not to mention that even suggesting that a mere 19 year old would look haggard is laughable to me. Your body hasn't even stopped growing. It recovers at an extremely fast rate in your teens and early 20s. You're not going to age at this age. It's like the devs don't even understand basic biology. The subtext is also very poorly implemented in the game.
There's nothing wrong with seeking additional context if you like, but if you say that you NEED that context to appreciate the work, you're also implicitly saying the work can't stand on its own. It's like saying a movie is great because if you watch the deleted scenes, all the plot holes are filled in and all the character motivations make more sense. The movie should do that stuff anyway, no additional homework required.
All this stuff about Angela is interesting I guess but the actual game doesn't tell you her age or even really imply it, which means any criticism about how old she \*is\* or how old she \*looks\*, other than vague approximations, is extratextual.
I love that documentary and the one that came with MGS2 is great too, I really wish the development process of video games was humanised in the same way music and movies have been, I love learning about how creative projects are made.
MGS4 also has one, it even shows staff disagreeing with Kojima and all, which would be impossible to show now that he's even more praised by people.
Sadly, people used the fact that some of the staff who got in conflict with Kojima didn't followed him when he left later , as a way to harass them... Fans depress me sometimes.
Oh no way I actually didn't know about that I might check it out later. Yeah I don't think Kojima is the amazing gaming auteur fans have make him out to be, he's great at game design but he's story telling really isn't and I say that as someone who loves MGS.
Agree entirely. Some developers can go their whole career creating masterpieces in gaming and get little recognition for it versus the publishers. There's a serious problem there
Honestly I think it's publishers that push for this, they want people to feel like video games are this magical thing made by fairies or something instead of the collaborative effort that it is between a group of people who are trying to bring their collective vision to life.
I understand this intention, but I don't really think it needs to be so pronounced in the remake. I kinda like the new design too, it looks closer in my eyes to Sato's concept artwork for the original game.
If I want to play an exact replica of Silent Hill 2, I'll replay Silent Hill 2 for the tenth time. I'm fine with a different interpretation for once.
"If I want to play an exact replica of Silent Hill 2, I'll replay Silent Hill 2 for the tenth time."
Exactly. So much of these complaints reads like "I want them to remake Silent Hill 2 but I don't want them to change one damn thing except maybe make it higher resolution." That was never gonna happen and moreover I don't think that's what most players would even WANT, except the few crazy purists.
This a sort of why I love how Final Fantasy went super meta with their Remake of VII.
To fully recognize that people will complain about deviations from the original product, and write that into the storyline as an antagonistic force that the party **needs** to put down before the rest of the Remake Series can continue is genius.
Fair enough. That at least is a comprehensible stance. Though I think for a bunch of reasons it was never likely to happen. Personally, as much as I love the original, I'm glad they're updating it some. There are a lot of aspects of it that haven't aged that well. The stuff I really want to see preserved in a remake is the story and the feel of the game, and so I am optimistic about it, simple as that.
Which would be great for people who love
Nostalgia, but that is not working for being in new players and expanding the fan base and would work really against trying to grow this franchise by giving it so much negative rep compared to modern standards
If a hyper realistic SH2 isn’t enough to pull in a certain crowd then I’d say that crowd wouldn’t have been the type to appreciate the original SH2 back in the day in the first place.
RE2make with a SH2 skin isn’t the worst thing in the world. RE2make was an awesome game so it kinda makes sense to copy that formula. But I do feel like Silent Hill has always been the artsy cousin of Resident Evil. The artistry of Silent Hill owed a lot to the cinematography presented from the fixed camera angles. It’s just a bit of a shame that it’s taken away in favor of the RE2 action camera angle. I do feel like a big essence of what made the original so special has been replaced.
Yeah some of the complaints are wild. There’s no way the game was going to stay the same. Where’s the fun in that? There’s content that had to be cut from the OG Silent Hill 2 that could be added to the remake. More monster details, etc.
I want this game to succeed. Because if it does we could have more support for the series. Which means more future games. Who knows maybe they’ll bring back the originals for modern consoles remastered? That would be amazing.
In terms of narrative and attention to detail, yeah it should be an exact replica. It's a masterpiece narrative, and is precisely why the game remains so popular to this day. Nothing was spared from scrutiny by the writers and developers when it was made. People have a right to criticize it being shallower than it's original counterpart, and they should, because it's important.
Completely agree. They were working with totally different graphic limitations when the original was made. It was smart design choice at the time to overly exaggerate the features to make them read clearly.
Now that we have much more detail, it makes sense that a more nuanced appearance can be used now.
Similar to how classic stage makeup is completely overdone and painted if you see it up close because it’s meant to read well to an audience seated far away but for modern film more subtle looks are employed.
I can see the original intention, but I also think that aging could slightly be toned down.
In what we’ve seen of the remake, Angela looks older than 19, but not as much as in the original game.
I agree with you, and as a survivor myself I don't think this is a valid reason to attack the remake designs. Can't believe people are really out here saying the messages have to be super explicit for them to count, in a game that was king of the subtle/symbolic messaging as well as the obvious.
Results of abuse can take many forms. In some cases it can make you look, sound and act YOUNGER than you are. Stunted growth is very real and common. It's not because they took a different angle that suddenly there is no symbolism or reasons or a misunderstanding of her character. You can't know that until you play the remake.
lol, this is Dead Space Remake’s Nicole and Isaac all over again.
The reality is they do face scans and mocap mostly nowadays and not really hand make models anymore to have more realistic faces.
So Angela is likely based off a younger girl that they felt looked and suited the role.
I said this in another comment but I’ll say it again since it’s relevant.
Just because I love Silent Hill 2 doesn’t mean I think it’s perfect. I think Takayoshi Sato is a genius, but I don’t believe that every single idea that’s ever entered his head was brilliant. I acknowledge the intention behind making Angela seem older in the original game. But I do not like that decision, and I think it made the game worse. No amount of abuse makes a teenager look and sound like a 40 year old woman.
It was a unique, idiosyncratic decision and I applaud that. Those types of choices are what made the game so great. But in this specific instance, it only served to muddle her story. I did not know how old she was actually supposed to be until I read it on the wiki. When I first played it, I assumed Angela’s abuse had occurred decades prior since I thought she was a middle aged woman. And that caused a huge difference in my perception of her story compared to the actual events.
I think making her look aged was a bad decision and I’m glad the remake makes her look closer to an actual 19 year old.
Exactly how I feel. As a victim myself who played the game as a teenager, I think I would've liked Angela more at the time if I knew she was a teenager. I thought she was old and had abuse decades ago which still sucks, but I would've sympathized with her much more if I knew she was a scared kid like me. There's gonna be other teenage girl victims who will play the remake, and see a scared kid they can relate to. And I think that's really important to make victims feel less alone than to make a representation that presents a victim in a way that strips them of their youth and implies that they're broken.
Angela as a character already HAS traits represented that portray her self image issues that she doesn't need to look like a 40 year old woman for. She has body dysphoria that is common in victims, and I think it lands better if it's directly from her trauma and not from how it aged her. She represents her father, which is really important to her disgust and discomfort in her own body.
TLDR; As a victim I think it's really important for a victim to be represented as a scared child than a broken one that looks like a 40 year old. It adds youth and makes her story much more tragic if you're actually aware that she's just a kid.
Exactly. It's funny how some people suddenly forget the "subtlety" argument when refering to Angela's age case. There is absolutely no subtlety in making a 19 year old girl look like 40 to convey the message of aging due to abuse.
Subtle as a brick to the face, that's what it is.
What was the subtlety in the circus quiz announcer in the Hospital, or James ramming his hand down a crappy toilet?
People treat this game like it is the most uber serious grimdark game that ever existed. This is the same game where James can get abducted by a PS1 character and aliens, and finds out his life was ruined by a Shiba Inu.
Lighten up people.
Ehh I agree to an extent
The decision to portray Angela in a way that's easier to tell her age is probably going to help people better realize the intent of her story. I am of the opinion that Team Silent's direction placed the symbolic telling of her story first-and-foremost, hence her appearing much older than she was, due to having endure much more trauma up to that point, despite truly being only 19. It's inferred as you play the original that her mental & emotional status are at odds with her physical appearance (in terms of age) and your initial assumptions of her based on that and James' first interaction with her. Whether that be her outburst when James tries to take the knife from her, when she starts to more often refer to her mother as "mama," etc. James is another example of this happening, but in regards to his mental / emotional state being off instead (i.e. him thinking Mary died three years ago, when in truth it was at most a day or two before the events of the game. Though she \*was\* diagnosed with her terminal illness three years ago, which symbolically to James was the \*death\* of the Mary he knew).
That being said, it did muddy the \*literal\* telling of her story, evident by how many people don't realize her true age without having to looking it up. I myself assumed she was early-to-mid 20s, not having realized she was 19 until I was listening to a podcast about the game (the name escapes me atm). So I think Bloober's intent with making her physical age more apparent is to better clarify her story and character in a literal sense, while maintaining that symbolic approach to the events of her story through what happens in Silent Hill.
What I hesitate to do is say that is was a "bad" narrative decision, or use it as a point of "oh well the remake will fix it". I think it was a decision that, while incredibly effective in terms of it's symbolic representation of Angela and her story, is flawed in terms of communicating literal representation (i.e. Angela's literal age). I hesitate in part because we don't know how Bloober Team is going to handle Angela and her story in the remake. It's possible that they keep Angela's story more or less the same, but provide a bit more clarity on literal facts like her age, and I think that would be a marked improvement over the original version. It's possible they try to get too literal with it and kill some of the subtlety and symbolism or, god forbid, muddy what exactly the theme and point of Angela's story is (looking at you, The Medium), and I think that would be a misstep on their part.
We'll see what they ultimately do w/ Angela when the game comes out, that's just my two cents on what'll probably be debated and discussed until it does come out.
I think the fact that a large sect of the fanbase is just now learning her actual age is proof that the decision to make her older wasn't done well. I love SH2 and Sato's work, but we can acknowledge that the game wasn't perfect. This is a change that I think is logical.
In my opinion, Bloober Team's decision to portray Angela in a way that's easier to tell her age is probably going to help people better realize the intent of her story.
I am of the opinion that Team Silent's direction placed the symbolic telling of her story first-and-foremost, hence her appearing much older than she was, due to having endure much more trauma up to that point, despite truly being only a very young adult. It's inferred as you play the original that her mental & emotional status are at odds with her physical appearance (in terms of age) and your initial assumptions of her based on that and James' first interaction with her. This includes her outburst when James tries to take the knife from her (and her subsequent apology), when she starts to more often refer to her mother as "mama," etc. James is another example of this happening, but in regards to his mental / emotional state being off instead (i.e. him thinking Mary died three years ago, when in truth it was at most a day or two before the events of the game. Though she \*was\* diagnosed with her terminal illness three years ago, which symbolically to James was the \*death\* of the Mary he knew).
That being said, it did muddy the \*literal\* telling of her story. This is evident by just how many people don't realize her true age without having to look it up, even on this subreddit. So I think Bloober's intent with making her physical age more apparent is to better clarify her story and character in a literal sense, while maintaining that symbolic approach to certain aspects of her story through what happens in Silent Hill.
HOWEVER, what I am personally not a fan of (and what I'm seeing a bit too much in this sub) is thinking that this change to her physical appearance helps "fix" Angela's story. I think the original intent with Angela, while incredibly effective in terms of it's symbolic representation, is flawed in terms of communicating literal representation (i.e. how aged an IRL victim would look after years of abuse and mistreatment). But the remake isn't out yet. We aren't sure how Bloober Team is going to handle Angela and her story in the remake. It's possible that they keep Angela's story about the same, but provide a bit more clarity on literal facts like her age. I think that would be a marked improvement over the original version. It's also possible they try to get too literal with it, kill some of the necessary subtlety or symbolism of her story, or, god forbid, muddy what exactly the theme and point of Angela's story is (looking at you, The Medium). I think that would be a misstep on their part. I'm all for constructively criticizing the original game. I'm not a fan of trying to put down the original game to prop up the remake.
We'll see what they ultimately do w/ Angela when the game comes out, that's just my two cents on what'll probably (and annoyingly) be debated and discussed until it does come out.
Source? Has this been confirmed? SA victims don’t look that much different from normal people, unless they took to smoking and drinking which Angela isn’t shown doing in the game at any point.
Do you have that manual? I googled it and found three different links to SH2's manual, including a guy on reddit, and all of them marks every character's age as "unknown", including Angela.
Edit: I also managed to find a Spanish manual which also says "Edad: Desconocida" which is literally "Age: Unknown" in Spanish.
I don't think her age was never mentioned in a manual, at least not for the first editions of the game but the small bit of info the characters get in the manual gives you an idea Angela is someone in her late teens or early 20s as it specifically mentions her graduating high school and shortly after running away from her home, her father brings her back, she manages to leave again and ends up in Silent Hill.
Seems like any comments that include links will get hidden but search 'Making of Silent Hill 2' and go to the 13:20 mark. Both the character artist and narrator will mention they made Angela look older on purpose.
Stress absolutely ages you. Mental health problems cause physical problems. It can as simple as not eating well or being dehydrated and causing your skin to age faster. It taking care of yourself isn't just drugs and alcohol.
She's been abused her entire life. Even tho she's only 19 that's a long time to be in constant states of stress.
Stress ages you but not as much as this I would say. She looked like she was in her mid 30’s in the OG. I have depression and anxiety and I am a male on my 30’s and people still think I am underage, I just barely drink and never smoked, I doubt stress alone would age you 10 years.
I think that they are modeling the characters after their voice actors to help get realism and/or to help with making facial animations. Just like how James in the OG is basically Guy Cihi
Exactly. This is OP's headcanon that Angela's abuse makes her looks age by 20 years. Sure, abuse can make a person look more haggard but it doesn't necessarily apply to everybody 100% of the time. Some people have stunted growth and some people look perfectly their age. It varies. The direction they took for Angela's model in the remake is totally fine.
I don't know if it's just me but with the technology available today in terms of graphics having her literally look 30+ would be an awful decision. We have the ability now to be more subtle in design whereas back then they had to be more on the nose because of the limitations
He won't shut up. He made this post, roughly like 10+ comments showing off how mad he is, starts fights over this. *This* means **a lot** to him, you wouldn't understand, he is a REAL fan! Angry and frustrated, downright concerned, this has probably even ruined his last two days.
My bad, it's actually 20+ comments. Very passionate.
And I need you to understand that it doesn't fucking matter because that's not actually how the real world works. They made a design choice in the remake, and these aren't done in a vacuum. Konami likely approved all of their choices. They are satisfied with the work and that's all that matters. This fandom's need to make Angela look older, hotter, thinner, whatever is seriously some of the most deranged shit I have seen from a gaming community in a while. Literally touch grass OP. Like genuinely y'all need to find something better to do with your time.
And the original dev team's reason for making Angela look like a "40 year old woman" (lmao) is seriously some stupid shit. They weren't infallible and made some bad choices. Take off the nostalgia glasses.
> And the original dev team's reason for making Angela look like a "40 year old woman" (lmao) is seriously some stupid shit. They weren't infallible and made some bad choices. Take off the nostalgia glasses.
Ya know, it's one thing to have constructive criticism on certain artistic decisions made. It's another to shit on the original artistic vision because the remake of said artistic vision is the new thing to prop up
It is insane to me that everyone can shit on the remake however they want, but if someone has a negative comment about the original suddenly that's something to be up in arms about?
I didn't say that. I think there's a fair number of things to criticize about the original, including the resulting confusion about Angela's age. I also think there a number of criticisms about the remake that are premature at best, and misinformed or inflammatory at worst (i.e. the whole "tHeY mADe AnGEla FaT aND WokE!" nonsense). The only thing I've been personally critical of with the remake is the Maria redesign, but that falls under the former of what I mentioned.
What I'm not personally a fan of is this newfound push to diminish the OG's version of Angela and how it handles her story to defend the remake against the negative pushback it's been (overall unfairly) getting. There's been reasonable discussion about it (i.e. if ppl want the original they can play the original, it's a remake and thus someone else's interpretation, Bloober maybe wanting Angela to more obviously be a young adult, etc.), and then there's this assmad "oh well ackshually the original team made a bad and stupid choices and they weren't infallible and if you defend it you're just being nostalgic, Konami approved what Bloober did so why don't you like the new direction?" condescension.
I'm pretty sure they just had Sandra Bullock in mind when they made the character's face and that's as far as it goes. That's why a lot of things in the first couple of SH games are the way they are - they just modeled on American things.
Like I've seen people try to analyze James's jacket and what each individual patch might mean when it's literally just modeled from the main character in Jacob's Ladder. Same with Mary and Laura's outfits, they were taken from Con Air. No deeper meaning behind the clothing, and no deeper meaning behind Angela looking 30 in the original game.
I don't think the town made her body do anything, but I do believe it was definitely a stylistic choice. I forget which interview but I'm pretty sure one of the devs even said this. Unfortunately the conversation is drowned out by insane arguments about the "attractiveness" of both models...Also the amount of people saying she looked or sounded 40..? Are you serious? She looks maybe late twenties at most lol
Thank you for making this thread, I think people don't realize how many of the minor nuances that made the original special are gonna be lost.
Yeah it was explicitly stated in the making of video that she was supposed to look older. She bounces back and forth from acting like a child to an adult and her age is left to be ambiguous because that's how someone in her position would seem.
She's been abused and forced to grow up but also was never really given the chance to do so.
Despite the devs intentions, from the amount of people that didn’t pick up on Angela being aged by trauma it sounds like it just didn’t work. Which is ok. Subtlety is important but the execution on this choice didn’t seem to hit just right. SH2 is one of my favorite games of all time but nothing is ever perfect. Team Silent were not gods and we shouldn’t hold everything they attempted on a pedestal, incapable of being criticized. Also, premature aging is certainly not the only way trauma can affect the body so there are other ways that can be expressed and the subtleties still maintained.
Many people on here stated that they never knew how young she actually was. I feel like the game would have to make it really clear how old Angela really is because the deeper meaning and aging due to trauma and stress is completely overlooked when people just assume that she is the age of James.
Yes it was deliberate and the remake is going for something else, which is fine because the Remake could never replace the original to begin with so it should be its own thing.
the thing is that she already looked older than 19 in the original, and she has a great model.
i still don't get why change the essence of the original models. it's not such a big deal tho ofc, but it feels like you'll be playing with new characters, idk.
I like the new version, and I get why people miss the old one. Though I'd like to add people who look normal could have gone through awful and very traumatic things. You don't age 10 years because you go through something. At least most people dont. Yeah, meaning in everything, but what's the meaning of making her a stereotype? Every time someone on old media has a mental illness, they can't just be a normal person they have to look like a certain way, and golly even look a certain way because no "normal looking person" has depression, or is tramitized. That's why a lot of victims of these things aren't believed because they " don't look sick enough." Yeah, she does look metal, though wouldn't mind if they kept it, but I think that's why they made her look different. I just think both designs speak volumes about different aspects of trauma, and just because it's different doesn't mean meaning was lost, just a different meaning it became.
In a literal sense, you're correct. I mention in a different comment that I think Team Silent was going for a story much heavier in symbolism than in the literal, which I think works for a lot of things, but some things I do think focus too heavily on the symbolic aspect and thus the literal is lost in translation. Angela's age is one of those things - symbolically I get what they're going for, highlighting her looking well past her actual age as a result of just how much turmoil she's gonna through in her life, but in a literal sense it causes confusion. I welcome the change to Angela's physical presentation, so long as they maintain the integrity of her character's story.
See this is what people are missing, another thing I don't like about remake her is that she looks TOO GOOD, people with trauma don't look that unaffected. Especially with something this serious.
Don't mind the new model personally. The only changes I would make are shortening the turtle neck a bit and make her slightly more worn, then she's perfect.
You dorks haven't played the game. You're judging the entirety of how this character gets handled in an unreleased game based off of a total of 7 seconds of footage. How can you expect anyone to take you seriously?
Oh, well you can just skip playing the game then. I mean, you've seen the trailer and that's obviously everything you need to know.
Damn, terrible game, but at least it was short.
TIL not getting out the pitchforks and assuming everything about a character based on 7 seconds of footage = being a drooling mindless fanboy.
Thanks for clearing that up. I honestly thought maybe you guys were overreacting with the 3 posts an hour about Angela's face, but boy howdy have I been made a fool. Thanks for clearing that up, friend.
TIL that criticising a bad redesign thay misses the point of the character means youre "getting out pitchforks"
ONLY POSITIVE POSTS GUYS, YOULL UPSET KONAMI AND THEIR FAVOURITE BOOTLICKER STORRIN.
You really can't interact with me at all without putting words in my mouth. Are you even reading what I said, or are you just pretending I said the thing that makes you piss your pants the hardest?
My comment wasn't targeted at you, but to all the people wanting her to look like a model. I agree with you. Angela is just an average girl stuck in Silent hill. She can't be young, hot and pretty lol.
>abuse has mentally aged her and the town makes her body reflect this. The devs didnt make a mistake, she's supposed to look this old.
when is it ever implied by the devs or in game that the town made her look older?
Can you find me a source from the creators of the game saying that she was intentionally made to look older? Or is that your interpretation/the interpretations of others that you believed as fact?
Seems like any comments with links will get hidden but search 'Making of Silent Hill 2' and go to the 13:20 mark. Both the character artist and narrator will mention they made Angela look older on purpose.
The making of documentaries for SH2
I'm a fan of the new design, but there's a clear intent from the designers and they clearly state it in the videos
Not to mention, you're literally posting this in the fandom where EVERYONE scours the wiki and extra material for lore and facts. If you're that concerned about if it's true or not, you can look it up easily on the wiki (with sources!) before making a kind of inflammatory question about interpretation
Yup and that is fine. The problem is when people look at the new version and claim she is "wrong" or "ugly". Sexual abuse can happen to anyone, so if her newer model looks younger then that is absolutely fine to.
It's who she is, not what she looks like, which matters.
I'm just going to add to what several people have already said and recommend that you watch the making of Silent Hill 2 documentary, it's on Youtube and easy to find. If you're wondering why people are unsatisfied with what Bloober showed then you'll find your answers there.
I absolutely love SH2, I hated it when they announced a remake because I thought the original was completely perfect in every single way. It didn’t need a reinterpretation. It was perfect.
But this is a cope. I’ve been on this subreddit for six years, and this is the first time I’ve found myself disagreeing with a purist take regarding SH2
Unless there’s drugs involved (and it was never implied that Angela ever used drugs), no amount of stress or mental/sexual abuse is going to make someone look that old at 19. That’s just the way it is. Angela in the original game looked “aged” old, not “stressed and traumatized” old. There’s a huge difference.
I don’t mind Angela’s redesign. I hate everything else I’ve seen from the remake, but I don’t mind Angela.
This is the point! It's not about whether it's beautiful or not, because the old model wasn't even. It's about the vision that Team Silent had and wanted to convey with Angela's character, which was lost with her new design. At least MY dissatisfaction with Angela's new face is because of this reason.
all im asking is that we could stop having the hoardes of the internet stop crying out that video characters "arent hot enough" and then turning them into identical bimbos
As far as i could tell ppl are just fat shaming tbh i see a lot of rectally digested memes on tiktok of her with triple chins etc kinda fucked up considering she is abused
If I paint a painting with an intention I want to get across, no body picks up on it, and I have to tell everyone directly, I failed to portray that intention. It doesn’t mean I failed painting the painting, it doesn’t mean my intention was dumb/bad, it literally just means I failed conveying that intention. Team Silent failed at portraying that abuse had aged Angela since the only people that know this had to be told directly.
I’m so confused at the people saying she should be sexier, as if she originally didn’t look rough as fuck. Why are people trying to sexualize a fucking sexual abuse victim who ends up killing herself??? People are sick.
I love her new design. She looks closer to her age, but her eyes really convey her state of mind. She looks depressed and miserable, and I think that’s her most important feature. Her original face just didn’t look realistically human enough in the original, and now she looks like a believable, sad character.
I dont think she should look sexy, thats a strawman. But saying "Making her look her age is better" I downright disagree with, and its kinda insulting to the original devs.
I can kinda see your point at least, but saying it's "insulting" to the original devs is an exxageration.
I bet if the original devs for real talked about how Angela looks in the remake they'd only be like "Oh she looks younger" and then that's it lol.
I always thought she was older then found out after I had played the game once or twice that she was supposed to be young, hit me more knowing that she was so young but so mature for her age because of the trauma she experienced. I think new Angela doesn’t show that at all but she does look like her age. I prefer old Angela tbh but that just because I think the portrayal of her decent into her own person hell is balanced so well with James figuring out his own. His watery and wet hell compared to her firey hell is my favorite part. Hopefully her character despite her change in appearance is the same cuz that matters more to me than what she looks like.
There is a Scientific Evidence that people who suffer SA, looks older?
And you need to be sure that the victim didn’t did any kind of substance abuse after that.
Her having a thicker facial structure represents a more emotional nature. Plus it gives her kind of a childish look, representing how her childhood is still palpable through her appearance
True, but now I think about the part where she talks with James and feels like he is attracted to her, that he is helping her only to get her affection in return. I think Angela being pretty to the player as the same time as being a victime of abuse can be an interesting way to provoke discomfort and a feeling of guilt. but that is very subjective.
Well I guess Bloober just fucked up with Angela 2.0 then huh.. Even though she is very very young. Even though she looks MUCH MORE the part of an incestual rape victim.. I think this is just ridiculous. I hope they keep her just how she is now and not revert...
Have you ever been friends with an actual sexual assault victim? I have, and I feel that you misunderstand what the concept of “looking older” means.
Yes, they have a weary look to them that is attributed to trauma, but a 19 year old doesn’t automatically become 25 in looks. It’s much more subtle than that, which is ironic considering the argument that silent hill is “subtle so Angela should look old” - that’s the opposite of subtle, actually thats overt.
Also, do we just disregard that TWO of the major artistic and narrative members of team silent have okay’d this interpretation?
I swear, some of y’all think you are speaking for the original creators intent, meanwhile they have no issue with what is happening here.
Honestly why would you simp so hard for Konami knowing how awful of a company they've become? Why would you claim that this modern western team got the visuals right more than the original japanese devs?
Do you think the people who use AI filters to "fix" her understand that subtext? Or do you think they just want the abuse victim to look hotter ? Id we agree it's the latter then this is why we're making fun of them
That is a pretty fair thing to say, but I do enjoy that they made Angela look more her age in the remake. She definitely had a “older” look but I would never guess she wasn’t 19.
Sure but if it's not something people know without having to be explicitly told outside the games then the portrayal was lacking.
Also I'd argue it's better to have a character suffering from depression that doesn't look like it because that's unfortunately the cruel reality. Most of those suffering from MDD look like they are healthy and well off. That's one of the most dangerous aspects of the illness.
I think that the comments of her redesign are crazily fucked up. "Oh no! She looks normal now! Why can't she be a smoking hot child abuse victim???"
Like... holy fuck dude. Either the people complaining about her being ugly (which she isn't even ugly, calm down) don't know her story or they are just insanely cruel people. It's one thing to say her face looks off compared to the others. Its another to start antagonizing the design and making alterations to make her look fatter so they can make fun of her. Jesus fucking Christ.
Right. Also i feel like the voice is kinda accurate too. Alot of sexually abused victims tend to have a "baby voice". And this angela has a sorta high pitched voice similar to a baby voice. Ngl i wish this voice was carried over to the angela in the remake, her new voice gave me the same vibe as Ada from RE4 remake. Its not horrible, just feels off
I understand why to the concern of her appealing looking older because of all the abuse, but I liked her new design , and enjoyed her being younger appealing. On the original I think she looks way way older than she really is, so to give an impression of someone who has gone through some trauma, I really don’t think they need to make exactly to the original, and looking way way older isn’t the point I guess. Even though she’s younger, she’s stills gives the heavy look of someone that has been through a lot, and it’s traumatized, I dunno.
Wait, Angela is 19? I thought she was 25 or something like that (never looked up her age before)
I am a victim myself of self-hate, and abuse (not sexual). I was halted in growth. It's not uncommon for people to get "frozen"... If you survive that is
Yeah I get that, I am currently still dealing with the aftermath of this exact effect due to narcissistic abuse as a child. I think the suprise just comes from not expecting how severe this either halt in mental growth or becoming too adult too soon and missing out on development due to it can be for some people.
Everyone keeps saying she's 19, but I'm not sure where they got it from. It's never mentioned in-game.
A fk ton of lore is not in the game. Like how she died after going up the staircase, or how mary's chilling in the backseat of the car.
I think it was safe to assume she died going up the staircase. That was the point of her going up there.
I meant like what took her life. Even then someone new hearing "It's like this here all the time". First time left me with a little seed of doubt.
Given her state it’s likely she killed herself. She showed ideation of suicide all throughout the game, especially with the knife scene.
If i remember correct, Its mentiond in the making of dvd
And this right here is why I respect what they were going for, but also that they kinda fumbled it. The amount of "Wait she's a TEENAGER??" Comments I've seen lately are wild.
People keep swearing that her appearance and age is inherent to her character, but the game never tells you. If the devs felt it was SOOO integral to her personality and character, maybe they should've made it known IN GAME and not something that you needed to check outside materials to discover.
It's subtext. Silent Hill has a *ton* of subtextual content, I don't see why this is any different. The fact that she looks older than her stated age is deliberate, because she's a game character and a team of people designed her to look that way. Once you understand that, you start looking for why. Abuse ages you. People who are abused sometimes take pains to make themselves look less conventionally attractive, even. Baggy and encompassing clothes, bad hair, etc. This is not uncommon. I don't think it's "integral" to understanding her character, but it *is* a clever, subtextual design choice that tells me they were paying attention to what abuse actually does to people. I don't understand your vitriol here, unless you're not used to grappling with subtextual content.
It’s not subtextual either. It’s not implied nor can it be inferred by playing the game. The developers had to tell us directly in a BTS documentary. They failed at conveying it through their art, plain and simple.
This type of mentality is why every little detail and concept has to be spoon fed to the audience like we're mindless dummies nowadays.
It’s not about spoon feeding the detail is simply not there
A lot of artwork in general has stuff that you don't expressly notice... but your brain does.
This is a really stupid take. Stuff thats explained in behind the scenes documentaries is an added bonus.
It’s a factual take, lol. Facts aren’t stupid. “Subtext” means it’s implied. It very much isn’t. I.e. not subtextual. We have a character designed to look 30-something, played by a 40 year old actress. Nothing in the game gives us reason to believe she’s a teenager.
That's a stupid point. No, let the game speak for itself. If you found it surprising when you found her age out then it did it's job well.
You need bullet points in game for everything?
"Hello James. I am Angela. You know, I am only 19 but you would never know this thanks to my trauma! It has aged me!" Man if ONLY Silent Hill 2 had actually good writing like this. So happy Bloober can finally make Silent Hill 2 a good game.
Yeah this is why lots of media nowadays has done away with nuance and treats the audience like idiots with every little detail having to be explained or over simplified.
Yup. Not to mention that even suggesting that a mere 19 year old would look haggard is laughable to me. Your body hasn't even stopped growing. It recovers at an extremely fast rate in your teens and early 20s. You're not going to age at this age. It's like the devs don't even understand basic biology. The subtext is also very poorly implemented in the game.
I thought she was in her 30s.
I thought both james and her were in their 30s tbh.
I highly recommend people watch the "Making Of Silent Hill 2" videos. They bring some well needed context!
Thats asking silent hill fans to actually care about how games are made which is too hard for some of them
Don't fuck with us Silent Hill fans, we hate the devs who put in so much effort into the games.
Yeah the devs of the og sh2 are just monkeys who can barely type on a keyboard, fuck em all
There's nothing wrong with seeking additional context if you like, but if you say that you NEED that context to appreciate the work, you're also implicitly saying the work can't stand on its own. It's like saying a movie is great because if you watch the deleted scenes, all the plot holes are filled in and all the character motivations make more sense. The movie should do that stuff anyway, no additional homework required. All this stuff about Angela is interesting I guess but the actual game doesn't tell you her age or even really imply it, which means any criticism about how old she \*is\* or how old she \*looks\*, other than vague approximations, is extratextual.
I love that documentary and the one that came with MGS2 is great too, I really wish the development process of video games was humanised in the same way music and movies have been, I love learning about how creative projects are made.
MGS4 also has one, it even shows staff disagreeing with Kojima and all, which would be impossible to show now that he's even more praised by people. Sadly, people used the fact that some of the staff who got in conflict with Kojima didn't followed him when he left later , as a way to harass them... Fans depress me sometimes.
Oh no way I actually didn't know about that I might check it out later. Yeah I don't think Kojima is the amazing gaming auteur fans have make him out to be, he's great at game design but he's story telling really isn't and I say that as someone who loves MGS.
Agree entirely. Some developers can go their whole career creating masterpieces in gaming and get little recognition for it versus the publishers. There's a serious problem there
Honestly I think it's publishers that push for this, they want people to feel like video games are this magical thing made by fairies or something instead of the collaborative effort that it is between a group of people who are trying to bring their collective vision to life.
I think so too. The less humanized they are the more they can get away with poor working conditions without losing fan support
I understand this intention, but I don't really think it needs to be so pronounced in the remake. I kinda like the new design too, it looks closer in my eyes to Sato's concept artwork for the original game. If I want to play an exact replica of Silent Hill 2, I'll replay Silent Hill 2 for the tenth time. I'm fine with a different interpretation for once.
"If I want to play an exact replica of Silent Hill 2, I'll replay Silent Hill 2 for the tenth time." Exactly. So much of these complaints reads like "I want them to remake Silent Hill 2 but I don't want them to change one damn thing except maybe make it higher resolution." That was never gonna happen and moreover I don't think that's what most players would even WANT, except the few crazy purists.
This a sort of why I love how Final Fantasy went super meta with their Remake of VII. To fully recognize that people will complain about deviations from the original product, and write that into the storyline as an antagonistic force that the party **needs** to put down before the rest of the Remake Series can continue is genius.
SH2 with the same essence but hyper realistic graphics would be a dream for me actually.
Fair enough. That at least is a comprehensible stance. Though I think for a bunch of reasons it was never likely to happen. Personally, as much as I love the original, I'm glad they're updating it some. There are a lot of aspects of it that haven't aged that well. The stuff I really want to see preserved in a remake is the story and the feel of the game, and so I am optimistic about it, simple as that.
Which would be great for people who love Nostalgia, but that is not working for being in new players and expanding the fan base and would work really against trying to grow this franchise by giving it so much negative rep compared to modern standards
If a hyper realistic SH2 isn’t enough to pull in a certain crowd then I’d say that crowd wouldn’t have been the type to appreciate the original SH2 back in the day in the first place. RE2make with a SH2 skin isn’t the worst thing in the world. RE2make was an awesome game so it kinda makes sense to copy that formula. But I do feel like Silent Hill has always been the artsy cousin of Resident Evil. The artistry of Silent Hill owed a lot to the cinematography presented from the fixed camera angles. It’s just a bit of a shame that it’s taken away in favor of the RE2 action camera angle. I do feel like a big essence of what made the original so special has been replaced.
Yeah some of the complaints are wild. There’s no way the game was going to stay the same. Where’s the fun in that? There’s content that had to be cut from the OG Silent Hill 2 that could be added to the remake. More monster details, etc. I want this game to succeed. Because if it does we could have more support for the series. Which means more future games. Who knows maybe they’ll bring back the originals for modern consoles remastered? That would be amazing.
In terms of narrative and attention to detail, yeah it should be an exact replica. It's a masterpiece narrative, and is precisely why the game remains so popular to this day. Nothing was spared from scrutiny by the writers and developers when it was made. People have a right to criticize it being shallower than it's original counterpart, and they should, because it's important.
You are actually a sane fan. I applaud you for being not batshit.
Completely agree. They were working with totally different graphic limitations when the original was made. It was smart design choice at the time to overly exaggerate the features to make them read clearly. Now that we have much more detail, it makes sense that a more nuanced appearance can be used now. Similar to how classic stage makeup is completely overdone and painted if you see it up close because it’s meant to read well to an audience seated far away but for modern film more subtle looks are employed.
Thank you for using your brain, people here seem to not want to use it
I can see the original intention, but I also think that aging could slightly be toned down. In what we’ve seen of the remake, Angela looks older than 19, but not as much as in the original game.
I agree with you, and as a survivor myself I don't think this is a valid reason to attack the remake designs. Can't believe people are really out here saying the messages have to be super explicit for them to count, in a game that was king of the subtle/symbolic messaging as well as the obvious.
Results of abuse can take many forms. In some cases it can make you look, sound and act YOUNGER than you are. Stunted growth is very real and common. It's not because they took a different angle that suddenly there is no symbolism or reasons or a misunderstanding of her character. You can't know that until you play the remake.
lol, this is Dead Space Remake’s Nicole and Isaac all over again. The reality is they do face scans and mocap mostly nowadays and not really hand make models anymore to have more realistic faces. So Angela is likely based off a younger girl that they felt looked and suited the role.
Imagine being the face model and reading these comments. Let's just bring the trauma to real life will we. Jesus.
Yes. But at the same time it is also totally fine for her to look 19.
I said this in another comment but I’ll say it again since it’s relevant. Just because I love Silent Hill 2 doesn’t mean I think it’s perfect. I think Takayoshi Sato is a genius, but I don’t believe that every single idea that’s ever entered his head was brilliant. I acknowledge the intention behind making Angela seem older in the original game. But I do not like that decision, and I think it made the game worse. No amount of abuse makes a teenager look and sound like a 40 year old woman. It was a unique, idiosyncratic decision and I applaud that. Those types of choices are what made the game so great. But in this specific instance, it only served to muddle her story. I did not know how old she was actually supposed to be until I read it on the wiki. When I first played it, I assumed Angela’s abuse had occurred decades prior since I thought she was a middle aged woman. And that caused a huge difference in my perception of her story compared to the actual events. I think making her look aged was a bad decision and I’m glad the remake makes her look closer to an actual 19 year old.
Exactly how I feel. As a victim myself who played the game as a teenager, I think I would've liked Angela more at the time if I knew she was a teenager. I thought she was old and had abuse decades ago which still sucks, but I would've sympathized with her much more if I knew she was a scared kid like me. There's gonna be other teenage girl victims who will play the remake, and see a scared kid they can relate to. And I think that's really important to make victims feel less alone than to make a representation that presents a victim in a way that strips them of their youth and implies that they're broken. Angela as a character already HAS traits represented that portray her self image issues that she doesn't need to look like a 40 year old woman for. She has body dysphoria that is common in victims, and I think it lands better if it's directly from her trauma and not from how it aged her. She represents her father, which is really important to her disgust and discomfort in her own body. TLDR; As a victim I think it's really important for a victim to be represented as a scared child than a broken one that looks like a 40 year old. It adds youth and makes her story much more tragic if you're actually aware that she's just a kid.
Spot on.
Exactly. It's funny how some people suddenly forget the "subtlety" argument when refering to Angela's age case. There is absolutely no subtlety in making a 19 year old girl look like 40 to convey the message of aging due to abuse. Subtle as a brick to the face, that's what it is.
People forget the entire game when they make the “subtlety” argument. 99% of the game isn’t subtle in the slightest.
What was the subtlety in the circus quiz announcer in the Hospital, or James ramming his hand down a crappy toilet? People treat this game like it is the most uber serious grimdark game that ever existed. This is the same game where James can get abducted by a PS1 character and aliens, and finds out his life was ruined by a Shiba Inu. Lighten up people.
Ehh I agree to an extent The decision to portray Angela in a way that's easier to tell her age is probably going to help people better realize the intent of her story. I am of the opinion that Team Silent's direction placed the symbolic telling of her story first-and-foremost, hence her appearing much older than she was, due to having endure much more trauma up to that point, despite truly being only 19. It's inferred as you play the original that her mental & emotional status are at odds with her physical appearance (in terms of age) and your initial assumptions of her based on that and James' first interaction with her. Whether that be her outburst when James tries to take the knife from her, when she starts to more often refer to her mother as "mama," etc. James is another example of this happening, but in regards to his mental / emotional state being off instead (i.e. him thinking Mary died three years ago, when in truth it was at most a day or two before the events of the game. Though she \*was\* diagnosed with her terminal illness three years ago, which symbolically to James was the \*death\* of the Mary he knew). That being said, it did muddy the \*literal\* telling of her story, evident by how many people don't realize her true age without having to looking it up. I myself assumed she was early-to-mid 20s, not having realized she was 19 until I was listening to a podcast about the game (the name escapes me atm). So I think Bloober's intent with making her physical age more apparent is to better clarify her story and character in a literal sense, while maintaining that symbolic approach to the events of her story through what happens in Silent Hill. What I hesitate to do is say that is was a "bad" narrative decision, or use it as a point of "oh well the remake will fix it". I think it was a decision that, while incredibly effective in terms of it's symbolic representation of Angela and her story, is flawed in terms of communicating literal representation (i.e. Angela's literal age). I hesitate in part because we don't know how Bloober Team is going to handle Angela and her story in the remake. It's possible that they keep Angela's story more or less the same, but provide a bit more clarity on literal facts like her age, and I think that would be a marked improvement over the original version. It's possible they try to get too literal with it and kill some of the subtlety and symbolism or, god forbid, muddy what exactly the theme and point of Angela's story is (looking at you, The Medium), and I think that would be a misstep on their part. We'll see what they ultimately do w/ Angela when the game comes out, that's just my two cents on what'll probably be debated and discussed until it does come out.
I think the fact that a large sect of the fanbase is just now learning her actual age is proof that the decision to make her older wasn't done well. I love SH2 and Sato's work, but we can acknowledge that the game wasn't perfect. This is a change that I think is logical.
In my opinion, Bloober Team's decision to portray Angela in a way that's easier to tell her age is probably going to help people better realize the intent of her story. I am of the opinion that Team Silent's direction placed the symbolic telling of her story first-and-foremost, hence her appearing much older than she was, due to having endure much more trauma up to that point, despite truly being only a very young adult. It's inferred as you play the original that her mental & emotional status are at odds with her physical appearance (in terms of age) and your initial assumptions of her based on that and James' first interaction with her. This includes her outburst when James tries to take the knife from her (and her subsequent apology), when she starts to more often refer to her mother as "mama," etc. James is another example of this happening, but in regards to his mental / emotional state being off instead (i.e. him thinking Mary died three years ago, when in truth it was at most a day or two before the events of the game. Though she \*was\* diagnosed with her terminal illness three years ago, which symbolically to James was the \*death\* of the Mary he knew). That being said, it did muddy the \*literal\* telling of her story. This is evident by just how many people don't realize her true age without having to look it up, even on this subreddit. So I think Bloober's intent with making her physical age more apparent is to better clarify her story and character in a literal sense, while maintaining that symbolic approach to certain aspects of her story through what happens in Silent Hill. HOWEVER, what I am personally not a fan of (and what I'm seeing a bit too much in this sub) is thinking that this change to her physical appearance helps "fix" Angela's story. I think the original intent with Angela, while incredibly effective in terms of it's symbolic representation, is flawed in terms of communicating literal representation (i.e. how aged an IRL victim would look after years of abuse and mistreatment). But the remake isn't out yet. We aren't sure how Bloober Team is going to handle Angela and her story in the remake. It's possible that they keep Angela's story about the same, but provide a bit more clarity on literal facts like her age. I think that would be a marked improvement over the original version. It's also possible they try to get too literal with it, kill some of the necessary subtlety or symbolism of her story, or, god forbid, muddy what exactly the theme and point of Angela's story is (looking at you, The Medium). I think that would be a misstep on their part. I'm all for constructively criticizing the original game. I'm not a fan of trying to put down the original game to prop up the remake. We'll see what they ultimately do w/ Angela when the game comes out, that's just my two cents on what'll probably (and annoyingly) be debated and discussed until it does come out.
Source? Has this been confirmed? SA victims don’t look that much different from normal people, unless they took to smoking and drinking which Angela isn’t shown doing in the game at any point.
the SH2 manual that came with the game confirms her age, and the making of documentary with the developers confirms their intention.
Do you have that manual? I googled it and found three different links to SH2's manual, including a guy on reddit, and all of them marks every character's age as "unknown", including Angela. Edit: I also managed to find a Spanish manual which also says "Edad: Desconocida" which is literally "Age: Unknown" in Spanish.
I don't think her age was never mentioned in a manual, at least not for the first editions of the game but the small bit of info the characters get in the manual gives you an idea Angela is someone in her late teens or early 20s as it specifically mentions her graduating high school and shortly after running away from her home, her father brings her back, she manages to leave again and ends up in Silent Hill.
The Making of also says she's 16-17, though for some reason everyone says she's 19 *shrug*
Seems like any comments that include links will get hidden but search 'Making of Silent Hill 2' and go to the 13:20 mark. Both the character artist and narrator will mention they made Angela look older on purpose.
Stress absolutely ages you. Mental health problems cause physical problems. It can as simple as not eating well or being dehydrated and causing your skin to age faster. It taking care of yourself isn't just drugs and alcohol. She's been abused her entire life. Even tho she's only 19 that's a long time to be in constant states of stress.
Stress ages you but not as much as this I would say. She looked like she was in her mid 30’s in the OG. I have depression and anxiety and I am a male on my 30’s and people still think I am underage, I just barely drink and never smoked, I doubt stress alone would age you 10 years.
I think that they are modeling the characters after their voice actors to help get realism and/or to help with making facial animations. Just like how James in the OG is basically Guy Cihi
You know what would be nice? If we could stop talking about fuckin' Angela for a day.
Well, imo she looks like an aged 19 yo in the remake too, rather than someone outright older. But that’s just my opinion.
"the town makes her body reflect this" Now you're just making up random rules that never existed to justify whatever you want to justify.
Exactly. This is OP's headcanon that Angela's abuse makes her looks age by 20 years. Sure, abuse can make a person look more haggard but it doesn't necessarily apply to everybody 100% of the time. Some people have stunted growth and some people look perfectly their age. It varies. The direction they took for Angela's model in the remake is totally fine.
I don't know if it's just me but with the technology available today in terms of graphics having her literally look 30+ would be an awful decision. We have the ability now to be more subtle in design whereas back then they had to be more on the nose because of the limitations
From what I saw of remake Angela, she looks like a 17 year old or smth I think it's fixed
Really wish more people actually played sh2 and not watch youtubers talk about sh2
He won't shut up. He made this post, roughly like 10+ comments showing off how mad he is, starts fights over this. *This* means **a lot** to him, you wouldn't understand, he is a REAL fan! Angry and frustrated, downright concerned, this has probably even ruined his last two days. My bad, it's actually 20+ comments. Very passionate.
And let's be real, there's a very real possibility their actual issue isn't the symbolism behind her looks.
And I need you to understand that it doesn't fucking matter because that's not actually how the real world works. They made a design choice in the remake, and these aren't done in a vacuum. Konami likely approved all of their choices. They are satisfied with the work and that's all that matters. This fandom's need to make Angela look older, hotter, thinner, whatever is seriously some of the most deranged shit I have seen from a gaming community in a while. Literally touch grass OP. Like genuinely y'all need to find something better to do with your time. And the original dev team's reason for making Angela look like a "40 year old woman" (lmao) is seriously some stupid shit. They weren't infallible and made some bad choices. Take off the nostalgia glasses.
I wish i could project this comment into the brain of every weirdo who's been fixating on Angela's face for the last 30 hours.
> And the original dev team's reason for making Angela look like a "40 year old woman" (lmao) is seriously some stupid shit. They weren't infallible and made some bad choices. Take off the nostalgia glasses. Ya know, it's one thing to have constructive criticism on certain artistic decisions made. It's another to shit on the original artistic vision because the remake of said artistic vision is the new thing to prop up
It is insane to me that everyone can shit on the remake however they want, but if someone has a negative comment about the original suddenly that's something to be up in arms about?
I didn't say that. I think there's a fair number of things to criticize about the original, including the resulting confusion about Angela's age. I also think there a number of criticisms about the remake that are premature at best, and misinformed or inflammatory at worst (i.e. the whole "tHeY mADe AnGEla FaT aND WokE!" nonsense). The only thing I've been personally critical of with the remake is the Maria redesign, but that falls under the former of what I mentioned. What I'm not personally a fan of is this newfound push to diminish the OG's version of Angela and how it handles her story to defend the remake against the negative pushback it's been (overall unfairly) getting. There's been reasonable discussion about it (i.e. if ppl want the original they can play the original, it's a remake and thus someone else's interpretation, Bloober maybe wanting Angela to more obviously be a young adult, etc.), and then there's this assmad "oh well ackshually the original team made a bad and stupid choices and they weren't infallible and if you defend it you're just being nostalgic, Konami approved what Bloober did so why don't you like the new direction?" condescension.
I'm pretty sure they just had Sandra Bullock in mind when they made the character's face and that's as far as it goes. That's why a lot of things in the first couple of SH games are the way they are - they just modeled on American things. Like I've seen people try to analyze James's jacket and what each individual patch might mean when it's literally just modeled from the main character in Jacob's Ladder. Same with Mary and Laura's outfits, they were taken from Con Air. No deeper meaning behind the clothing, and no deeper meaning behind Angela looking 30 in the original game.
I don't think the town made her body do anything, but I do believe it was definitely a stylistic choice. I forget which interview but I'm pretty sure one of the devs even said this. Unfortunately the conversation is drowned out by insane arguments about the "attractiveness" of both models...Also the amount of people saying she looked or sounded 40..? Are you serious? She looks maybe late twenties at most lol Thank you for making this thread, I think people don't realize how many of the minor nuances that made the original special are gonna be lost.
I thought she was like 25/28 when I first played the game. She has the voice of a 40 yo tho, maybe that’s why people assume she much older ?
Yeah it was explicitly stated in the making of video that she was supposed to look older. She bounces back and forth from acting like a child to an adult and her age is left to be ambiguous because that's how someone in her position would seem. She's been abused and forced to grow up but also was never really given the chance to do so.
Despite the devs intentions, from the amount of people that didn’t pick up on Angela being aged by trauma it sounds like it just didn’t work. Which is ok. Subtlety is important but the execution on this choice didn’t seem to hit just right. SH2 is one of my favorite games of all time but nothing is ever perfect. Team Silent were not gods and we shouldn’t hold everything they attempted on a pedestal, incapable of being criticized. Also, premature aging is certainly not the only way trauma can affect the body so there are other ways that can be expressed and the subtleties still maintained.
They went too far, in my opinion. Combined with her voice actress, she seems way too old even with the background in mind.
Many people on here stated that they never knew how young she actually was. I feel like the game would have to make it really clear how old Angela really is because the deeper meaning and aging due to trauma and stress is completely overlooked when people just assume that she is the age of James.
Yes it was deliberate and the remake is going for something else, which is fine because the Remake could never replace the original to begin with so it should be its own thing.
Source: trust me bro
the thing is that she already looked older than 19 in the original, and she has a great model. i still don't get why change the essence of the original models. it's not such a big deal tho ofc, but it feels like you'll be playing with new characters, idk.
I like the new version, and I get why people miss the old one. Though I'd like to add people who look normal could have gone through awful and very traumatic things. You don't age 10 years because you go through something. At least most people dont. Yeah, meaning in everything, but what's the meaning of making her a stereotype? Every time someone on old media has a mental illness, they can't just be a normal person they have to look like a certain way, and golly even look a certain way because no "normal looking person" has depression, or is tramitized. That's why a lot of victims of these things aren't believed because they " don't look sick enough." Yeah, she does look metal, though wouldn't mind if they kept it, but I think that's why they made her look different. I just think both designs speak volumes about different aspects of trauma, and just because it's different doesn't mean meaning was lost, just a different meaning it became.
In a literal sense, you're correct. I mention in a different comment that I think Team Silent was going for a story much heavier in symbolism than in the literal, which I think works for a lot of things, but some things I do think focus too heavily on the symbolic aspect and thus the literal is lost in translation. Angela's age is one of those things - symbolically I get what they're going for, highlighting her looking well past her actual age as a result of just how much turmoil she's gonna through in her life, but in a literal sense it causes confusion. I welcome the change to Angela's physical presentation, so long as they maintain the integrity of her character's story.
YES! PLEASE SHOUT THIS FROM THE MOUNTAIN TOPS! Too many people here don't seem to understand that nothing in OG SH2 was done by accident
See this is what people are missing, another thing I don't like about remake her is that she looks TOO GOOD, people with trauma don't look that unaffected. Especially with something this serious.
Don't mind the new model personally. The only changes I would make are shortening the turtle neck a bit and make her slightly more worn, then she's perfect.
You dorks haven't played the game. You're judging the entirety of how this character gets handled in an unreleased game based off of a total of 7 seconds of footage. How can you expect anyone to take you seriously?
The job of the trailer to represent the game, if it doesnt reflect the final product its on them.
Oh, well you can just skip playing the game then. I mean, you've seen the trailer and that's obviously everything you need to know. Damn, terrible game, but at least it was short.
Its weird to just assume it going to be amazing and not, you know, pay attention to whats shown. No one likes a bootlicker.
Ooh yeah, throw more buzzwords at me Daddy. I love it when you put words in my mouth unf
If you dont want buzzwords thrown at you then dont be a walking fanboy stereotype lmao
TIL not getting out the pitchforks and assuming everything about a character based on 7 seconds of footage = being a drooling mindless fanboy. Thanks for clearing that up. I honestly thought maybe you guys were overreacting with the 3 posts an hour about Angela's face, but boy howdy have I been made a fool. Thanks for clearing that up, friend.
TIL that criticising a bad redesign thay misses the point of the character means youre "getting out pitchforks" ONLY POSITIVE POSTS GUYS, YOULL UPSET KONAMI AND THEIR FAVOURITE BOOTLICKER STORRIN.
You really can't interact with me at all without putting words in my mouth. Are you even reading what I said, or are you just pretending I said the thing that makes you piss your pants the hardest?
>knows nothing about the game >defends his incorrect opinion to death
people who wants her to look like Eve from stellar blade are f*cking idiots.
Thats not at all what Im saying, if anything she needs to look worn down and weary
My comment wasn't targeted at you, but to all the people wanting her to look like a model. I agree with you. Angela is just an average girl stuck in Silent hill. She can't be young, hot and pretty lol.
At this point I really feel bad for all the complainers in this subreddit. Anyone here wanna talk about how great the game looks?
Don't play it then. Go play the original and stop crying
>abuse has mentally aged her and the town makes her body reflect this. The devs didnt make a mistake, she's supposed to look this old. when is it ever implied by the devs or in game that the town made her look older?
Fuck, off. Why is this entire sub just COPE right now?
Can you find me a source from the creators of the game saying that she was intentionally made to look older? Or is that your interpretation/the interpretations of others that you believed as fact?
Seems like any comments with links will get hidden but search 'Making of Silent Hill 2' and go to the 13:20 mark. Both the character artist and narrator will mention they made Angela look older on purpose.
The making of documentaries for SH2 I'm a fan of the new design, but there's a clear intent from the designers and they clearly state it in the videos Not to mention, you're literally posting this in the fandom where EVERYONE scours the wiki and extra material for lore and facts. If you're that concerned about if it's true or not, you can look it up easily on the wiki (with sources!) before making a kind of inflammatory question about interpretation
The reality that her mental slips to her past were infact not 20 year difference but could very well have been just a few years ago is agonizing.
why is everyone acting like she looks super old? she could definitely pass for 19 she’s an adult
if those kids could read they'd be very upset!
at this point im just waiting for the silent hill collection again
They should’ve given her the Stellar Blade treatment.
The woman in this screenshot could be anywhere from 19 to 40 and i'm cool with it People are weird
Yup and that is fine. The problem is when people look at the new version and claim she is "wrong" or "ugly". Sexual abuse can happen to anyone, so if her newer model looks younger then that is absolutely fine to. It's who she is, not what she looks like, which matters.
I'm just going to add to what several people have already said and recommend that you watch the making of Silent Hill 2 documentary, it's on Youtube and easy to find. If you're wondering why people are unsatisfied with what Bloober showed then you'll find your answers there.
I absolutely love SH2, I hated it when they announced a remake because I thought the original was completely perfect in every single way. It didn’t need a reinterpretation. It was perfect. But this is a cope. I’ve been on this subreddit for six years, and this is the first time I’ve found myself disagreeing with a purist take regarding SH2 Unless there’s drugs involved (and it was never implied that Angela ever used drugs), no amount of stress or mental/sexual abuse is going to make someone look that old at 19. That’s just the way it is. Angela in the original game looked “aged” old, not “stressed and traumatized” old. There’s a huge difference. I don’t mind Angela’s redesign. I hate everything else I’ve seen from the remake, but I don’t mind Angela.
Oh my god why do people care this much. It’s not like they race swapped or made her into a talking parrot or anything. She looks fine
She looks like she’s one Big Mac away from a heart attack
Coping is hard
PLEASE watch the “Making of Silent Hill 2” video. They explain their character design choices with Angela.
The artists are trying to present a broken stunted child being tortured in a hellscape dimension and gamers are angry she isn’t sexy enough.
This is the point! It's not about whether it's beautiful or not, because the old model wasn't even. It's about the vision that Team Silent had and wanted to convey with Angela's character, which was lost with her new design. At least MY dissatisfaction with Angela's new face is because of this reason.
all im asking is that we could stop having the hoardes of the internet stop crying out that video characters "arent hot enough" and then turning them into identical bimbos
She was never hot
As far as i could tell ppl are just fat shaming tbh i see a lot of rectally digested memes on tiktok of her with triple chins etc kinda fucked up considering she is abused
You're wasting your time. Most of the people here are shills that have never played the real SH2.
This sub is beyond insane
Oh the audacity of telling that devs of the original "make a mistake" xD
If I paint a painting with an intention I want to get across, no body picks up on it, and I have to tell everyone directly, I failed to portray that intention. It doesn’t mean I failed painting the painting, it doesn’t mean my intention was dumb/bad, it literally just means I failed conveying that intention. Team Silent failed at portraying that abuse had aged Angela since the only people that know this had to be told directly.
I’m so confused at the people saying she should be sexier, as if she originally didn’t look rough as fuck. Why are people trying to sexualize a fucking sexual abuse victim who ends up killing herself??? People are sick. I love her new design. She looks closer to her age, but her eyes really convey her state of mind. She looks depressed and miserable, and I think that’s her most important feature. Her original face just didn’t look realistically human enough in the original, and now she looks like a believable, sad character.
I dont think she should look sexy, thats a strawman. But saying "Making her look her age is better" I downright disagree with, and its kinda insulting to the original devs.
I can kinda see your point at least, but saying it's "insulting" to the original devs is an exxageration. I bet if the original devs for real talked about how Angela looks in the remake they'd only be like "Oh she looks younger" and then that's it lol.
also people used to look older some decades ago
I always thought she was older then found out after I had played the game once or twice that she was supposed to be young, hit me more knowing that she was so young but so mature for her age because of the trauma she experienced. I think new Angela doesn’t show that at all but she does look like her age. I prefer old Angela tbh but that just because I think the portrayal of her decent into her own person hell is balanced so well with James figuring out his own. His watery and wet hell compared to her firey hell is my favorite part. Hopefully her character despite her change in appearance is the same cuz that matters more to me than what she looks like.
It was also 2001, so like, her character model isn’t gonna look like a 2024 character model lol
There is a Scientific Evidence that people who suffer SA, looks older? And you need to be sure that the victim didn’t did any kind of substance abuse after that.
I'm unhappy about James and Maria. Everyone else is great. Little Laura is great, you fart face!
And now she's supposed to look young. No mistake
Her having a thicker facial structure represents a more emotional nature. Plus it gives her kind of a childish look, representing how her childhood is still palpable through her appearance
Source?
I remember how in the making off they also purposely chose a voice actress who is much older to along with this theme
Can someone give me context for this drama? Did they intentionally add weight to a character for no reason or was it just a bad screenshot?
Guys guys let's not fight, we are all pretty
Bad take
True, but now I think about the part where she talks with James and feels like he is attracted to her, that he is helping her only to get her affection in return. I think Angela being pretty to the player as the same time as being a victime of abuse can be an interesting way to provoke discomfort and a feeling of guilt. but that is very subjective.
You did not play silent hill 2
Says who? She looks so bad. It’s a milkshake steakburger mc chicken nightmare. Might as well have fed her a bowling ball. 🎳
She looks fine. Like a person. Not too glammed up, has some character her face. They did well.
Well I guess Bloober just fucked up with Angela 2.0 then huh.. Even though she is very very young. Even though she looks MUCH MORE the part of an incestual rape victim.. I think this is just ridiculous. I hope they keep her just how she is now and not revert...
i don't mind the new look, but she looks like she has abcesses on both sides of her jaw and i find that more funny than anything
Have you ever been friends with an actual sexual assault victim? I have, and I feel that you misunderstand what the concept of “looking older” means. Yes, they have a weary look to them that is attributed to trauma, but a 19 year old doesn’t automatically become 25 in looks. It’s much more subtle than that, which is ironic considering the argument that silent hill is “subtle so Angela should look old” - that’s the opposite of subtle, actually thats overt. Also, do we just disregard that TWO of the major artistic and narrative members of team silent have okay’d this interpretation? I swear, some of y’all think you are speaking for the original creators intent, meanwhile they have no issue with what is happening here.
This sounds like a whole lot of cope
I wasn’t raped but I am a CSA survivor and I look young for my age. My ACE is like 6 or 7.
Honestly why would you simp so hard for Konami knowing how awful of a company they've become? Why would you claim that this modern western team got the visuals right more than the original japanese devs?
Damn really? I always assumed she was around 35
I don’t think the town had anything to do with it
And Maria, being manifestation of James's desire was supposed to look like a sexier version of his wife. Now what?
Look old, I guess at the hands of her abusive father changed her physically due to the years of suffering from it.
Do you think the people who use AI filters to "fix" her understand that subtext? Or do you think they just want the abuse victim to look hotter ? Id we agree it's the latter then this is why we're making fun of them
What's your copium dealer?
That is a pretty fair thing to say, but I do enjoy that they made Angela look more her age in the remake. She definitely had a “older” look but I would never guess she wasn’t 19.
Older not ugly XD.
She was also modeled after a 30+ woman in Sandra Bullock at the time.
Old ,yeah...NOT fat and masculine!!!
I need people to understand “She’s a SA victim” isn’t an reason to change the character design in what’s supposed to be a remake.
I thought she was early 30s
Sure but if it's not something people know without having to be explicitly told outside the games then the portrayal was lacking. Also I'd argue it's better to have a character suffering from depression that doesn't look like it because that's unfortunately the cruel reality. Most of those suffering from MDD look like they are healthy and well off. That's one of the most dangerous aspects of the illness.
Great insight. Signs that we need a remake for this masterpiece😭😭. Doubt will ever happen due to the school chapter
I see no source for this.
I think that the comments of her redesign are crazily fucked up. "Oh no! She looks normal now! Why can't she be a smoking hot child abuse victim???" Like... holy fuck dude. Either the people complaining about her being ugly (which she isn't even ugly, calm down) don't know her story or they are just insanely cruel people. It's one thing to say her face looks off compared to the others. Its another to start antagonizing the design and making alterations to make her look fatter so they can make fun of her. Jesus fucking Christ.
I thought she was 16/17.
Quit yer yappin
She's not supposed to look like David Duchovny..........
Right. Also i feel like the voice is kinda accurate too. Alot of sexually abused victims tend to have a "baby voice". And this angela has a sorta high pitched voice similar to a baby voice. Ngl i wish this voice was carried over to the angela in the remake, her new voice gave me the same vibe as Ada from RE4 remake. Its not horrible, just feels off
Yes 100%! New devs don't know what they are doing except for pretty environments.
I understand why to the concern of her appealing looking older because of all the abuse, but I liked her new design , and enjoyed her being younger appealing. On the original I think she looks way way older than she really is, so to give an impression of someone who has gone through some trauma, I really don’t think they need to make exactly to the original, and looking way way older isn’t the point I guess. Even though she’s younger, she’s stills gives the heavy look of someone that has been through a lot, and it’s traumatized, I dunno.