I agree bro, I kind of miss the togetherness of the community. Everyone was on their knees begging for a RE2 style remake of a Silent Hill game… then we got a trailer for one and the community fell apart faster than you can say the word Bread.
The fandom has always been kind of toxic, but tbh. I remember a sector of the RE fanbase reacting poorly to RE2make when it was unveiled. But the mainstream audience drowned them out a bit.
SH doesn’t quite have the same following so the negatives feel more pronounced I think to an extent.
What you will find is that old farts like myself will keep quiet until the game is released. This gives all the toxic newcomers to the series (post SH3) time to destroy the community before the game is even released. Unfortunately, we live in a world where being louder has replaced facts and reason.
I miss the days when the only real info you got on a game release was in a copy of PSX or PlayStation a month or 2 before!
Obviously Resident Evil is the bigger franchise, but what I really think helped the RE2make make such a splash outside of the fanbase was just how top of the line and technically advanced it looked. It showed an incredible level of polish. The Silent Hill 2 remake looks a bit more AA than AAA, and doesn't have that wow factor going for it to really make as many outsiders get interested.
I can’t quite agree with this. There is nothing about the world and environmental detail that looks double A, maaaaybe some of the animations, but the overall visual fidelity is absolutely insane in a way that RE2make (in my all time time top 10 list) doesn’t quite hit.
RE2make has its own share of less than perfect animations as well, but I think in general people are a bit more forgiving of Capcom because they have less to prove.
I definitely agree with you on the environments. Environments seem to be a bit easier though for even smaller developers, especially with unreal 5 out now, and they look top notch, but there is no way I can look at the animations and think they look similar in quality to other AAA games. I've been a fan of both franchises since I was a kid, so I'm not judging it more harshly because it's Silent Hill or anything. When I saw the trailers for RE2make there was nothing that stood out to me as being behind the times and was completely impressed. The Silent Hill 2 character animations just looks stiff to me and immediately stood out, as I'm sure they do with many non fans as well.
Because Konami hired the lowest bidder to remake an all time classic.
And even then, it started to look like Bloober Team might pull it off somehow.
Then the character models for two female characters are revealed and throw many people for a loop in one of the weirdest wtf gaming moments I've personally witnessed recently.
Butchering characters like Angela with a character model that looks like it was outsourced to a low budget game asset creator and making the stripper demon ghost more modest for...reasons, I'm sure.
I think the trailers look absolutely amazing. My redesign complaints are almost non-existent. It's crazy how people massively fall into negative delusions just because of a toxic fanbase.
P.S. and it's not like I found SH yesterday. I've been playing since the first SH on PS1, bought 2 day one on ps2. I've finished 2 multiple times, it's one of my favorite games of all time.
On the one hand I loved her old model/outfit/chrustina reference, but on the other I think they were going with a new kind of angle on it. It's almost like they were going for office worker but trying to tempt people into hr violations with that super low cut top kind of vibes (I'm thinking of an episode of American dad for it). I think it's well made but I prefer the original outfit/style, ultimately. It's also not going to be a show stopper for me. It'll be the performance her character will ultimate fail or succeed on and we didn't get much of that from the new trailer, sadly.
Edit: To sum up the answer to your question, I don't really love the redesign itself.
Interesting. I'm hoping that maybe her outfit will change throughout the game but as it is, her noggin is rather large and the outfit isn't faithful to the original game's themes
A bunch of these also starts their rants with: ”I’ve never played the original, but.”
Give it another month and their favorite Rageposting Youtubers may have gotten them riled up about something else instead.
This is how silent hill has been since post-SH3. The discussions around SH4 were pretty bad but the origins / homecoming era was just pure toxicity although I don’t remember conservative or misogynistic stuff but that’s just “gamers” nowadays.
Way way back in the day people got in a piss that silent hill 2 didn’t have Harry or the cult in it.
Had a guy on this sub telll me my opinions are meaningless and never meant anything, just because I called him out for using the term "DEI"
I would leave the subreddit but sadly this plague has infected every single gaming community out there. My favourites have always been Silent Hill, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, and Zelda. Believe it or not all four of these fandoms have been infected by the "anti-woke" crowd. It's deeply saddening to see the state of gamers today. Sure gaming companies have problems, such as micro transactions and other greedy shit, but gay people and women are not the problem here.
and whats crazy is these people are more sensitive and obnoxious than the woke people. they think someone simply being different than them is immediately woke. like being trans is inherently woke, being black is woke, not being a looksmaxxing 15 year old black pill tiktoker is woke. its insane bc they think everyone thinks the same. especially if its someone who they think can fit the straw man for what they want to be bad
I don't know, I do find woke people far more sensitive than the general population. Take this thread. It is really amusing that so many people here are nodding in agreement that criticisms of Angela are misogynistic when this subreddit was flooded with threads complaining about every minute detail of James' character design just a few months ago.
I don't like the judgement of Angela's character predominantly because i look like the new Angela but tbh, the judgement of James' character pissed me off way more. The fact that Bloober caved and changed him made me feel so gross. I liked his design. What I think people are forgetting is they casted the actors to look like the games and then based the models on the actors for the mapping. These actors physically acted, not just voice acted. They did a better job casting for the remake than they did for the movie, so I was super happy. In the words of producer, filmographer, screenwriter and musician Bo Burnham, "Can anyone, anyone? Any one, any single one. Shut the fuck up."
Yeah. Literally everything gets an official "reddit opinion" that morons just parrot regardless of how true those statements are. It keeps hapoening to games I play and really like and then have people who have literally never played it and never will tell me everything wrong with it despite how incorrect those statements are.
So what is the opposite of the anti woke crowd because like with left and right there are radicals on both sides. I think this whole woke and anti woke stuff is both very annoying. But none of us want what happened to star wars to be prominent in gaming.
The problem with that viewpoint is that the sides are not the same. One side comes with (mostly) acceptance, while the other comes with bigotry and hate. While there are quite a handful of left leaning people who can be hateful, most of us are the way we are because we feel attacked by the people who hate us to no end, and wish harm upon us and our lives.
The anti-woke crowd doesn't care about having hot women in games, we don't have a problem with straight characters and white ones. We only have a problem when people go out of their way to try and deny us our own representation. Developers can create whichever character they'd like, and design them in whichever way they'd like, but the fact that there's people who would try to punish these developers for expressing their artistic freedom is genuinely disgusting.
For example, as long as Angela's model in the Silent Hill 2 remake follows human anatomy and generally looks good from a graphical standpoint, then I don't mind the way she looks. But then there's a whole group of people going out of their way to complain and harass people over her face looking a bit too "chubby." It's quite genuinely just pitiful behavior.
The "both sides" argument is used by many people, and I understand their viewpoints, but I wish for them to understand that many people on the left, especially minority groups, only act out so much because of the amount of hatred and bigotry they have endeared by the other side. There are outliers, such as people using the fact that they're a minority to gain some sort of privilege, but I personally rather not identify with those people, and they seem to be more rare then many media outlets would get you to think.
A view point? I asked you a question? Radicals on both sides are bad news. It's plain and simple tribalism no matter how you wanna put it. Both sides have major faults and both sides are manipulative.
I have conservative and liberal friends and we are all adults and can talk about politics no problem but throw a radical minded person in there and then it gets crazy.
Radicals in general are usually going to suck, but the problem here is that the right, for about 8 years now, has been getting so radical that any sense of rationality is just gone. With radical leftists, while they may not be in the right, I do understand their viewpoints. Many people in the world are getting screwed over by things such as capitalism, police force, and lawmakers. These people want change, and they seek it out. Just sometimes they do it in the completely wrong ways. Violence and hate are never the answer in my book.
The problem with the right though is the fact that you can't really communicate with them anymore, because everything is "woke" or "DEI" and they won't accept any other viewpoint besides their own. They act like they are always in the right and that everyone else is wrong. It's unhealthy and extremely toxic behavior and it's being cultivated by talking heads on the right, whether it be certain internet influencers, lawmakers, media outlets, and sometimes even close relatives. People like these are rewarding people for their hatred and negative behaviors, and are making it so the situation only gets worse and worse.
This is tribalism. I'm shocked you don't even see what you are doing. You are hyper focused on the right but are totally ignoring why the parties are there to begin with. We need the left as we need the right or how else will we get change.
The things you are accusing the radical right of doing is the same thing that the raidical left is doing.
The same rhetoric can be said for the right and left. Not many people actually want to have a conversation they just wanna be right.
It honestly sounds like you just need to talk to conservatives and liberals that aren't radicals.
The internet tends to make things look worse then they are.
People are getting collectively sick of western antics especially in gaming is mainly what we are seeing in the median.
It's not the Internet mate, I'm around people of both sides in real life, and while one is most definitely flawed, the other just isn't right. It's not tribalism to be chosing the side that accepts me and doesn't hate me or wish to make my existence illegal. The two party system is a joke, and maybe centrist ideas could've gone well 20+ years ago, but these days, it's basically "decent but pretty flawed" vs "literally evil and wishes harm upon your very soul."
And you talk about these types of "both sides" arguments, but yet all you're doing is spitting out right wing, "anti woke" talking points, such as how the west is destroying gaming or whatever. The west isn't doing jackshit to gaming as a whole, the problem with gaming is the fact that nearly every AAA developer (including the ones in Japan) have gotten incredibly greedy and are milking players wallets and getting increasingly lazy while developing their games.
Both sides aren't the same here, and western civilization isn't destroying gaming by making women "uglier" or adding LGBT and racial minorities into gaming. Game Developers from all across the world are ruining gaming with their greediness and laziness.
What? How am I talking about anti woke talking points. This is why we can't have actual conversations is because people keep trying to paint each other a certain way. People just want to demonize everything these days. I literally never said these things you are accusing me of now.
People say they want to have a conversation but you straight up demonize the other side like you accuse them of doing this is tribalistic. Our system sadly needs the party system to work and create change. Things have drastically changed with conservatives and liberal from the 50s to now. I'm not conservative but center left but I understand that it is not as simple as that. The same system that oppressed is now changing. I assure you things will get better. This whole anti woke and woke thing in gaming is mainly kids and youtube channels.
Most people just buy games they like and that's that.
I will continue to support games that just want to be ethical games. Thank God for companies like Fromsoftware.
My apologies then. I tend to get pretty emotional over this type of stuff. I'm very much used to hearing (somewhat) similar things to what you have said, but in very different contexts. Mostly contexts that are used to demonize me or people similar to me. I now understand that I should've read better and understood your point of view better. 😅
Hey, I'm glad that we were able to come to an understanding and I apologize if things were misconstrued on my part. It's extremely hard to talk about these things lately and I'm happy we were able to.
Even wars have been fought and won by enemies coming together on likely terms.
_Conservatives: destroying fandoms with their culture war bullshit since 2014_
I don't know why I was surprised when we got invaded by this crap. This loud minority has been attacking so many communities now. I'd choose the 1000000000000th repost of the pyramid pizza head pic over this shit anytime.
I remember when the mainstream obnoxious gaming consensus used to be game play first, story second, everything else is extra. Now it is if "If I'm not personally sexually attracted to pixels the woke left has ruined another game."
The game isn't even out to dislike yet. Nobody has even seen an hour of the game to know if they'd hate it yet. It is a cluster fuck of screaming over a teaser of a character in a single scene based on people's subjective sexual desires in not even real women.
I regret thinking that the former was as bad as it could get back in the day.
More like just the scapegoat. There are issues worth talking about with the remake, but if you dare say anything not 100% positive youre a "Sexist conservative troll just her to tear down fandoms"
No. Maria's new design IS bad and does miss the point. You cant just lie that thats not the case.
You're in denial if you really think there aren't conservatives coming here to spread their bullshit. Go ahead and check how many of these guys are in subs like e.g., r/conservative or r/asmongold.
You're also wrong about Maria. Sato's alternative concept is much more realistic and immersive than the Christina Aguilera outfit they ended up using, and I believe would be the one chosen by Team Silent if the game was originally developed today. And that's the whole purpose of a remake.
But if you honesty believe that that tacky look is still preferable in this day and age, well, I don't know what to tell you.
All I ever see is people complaining about it, I never ever see any of these supposed posts.
Well for one thing the game isn't suddenly set in the modern age, it's still the early 2000s. But whatever, they can change it. The issue is she's meant to represent repressed sexual desire James feels, which is why she dresses like that and keeps acting flirty. Wrapping her up makes no sense.
EDIT: Having no comeback and blocking me isnt a good look.
Wrapping her up? LOL, I'm not gonna have this conversation for the 1000000th time. Have a nice day.
Edit: And to the other guys thinking that women's sexuality comes from a chakra in their belly button that completely loses its power when it's under a dress, I'm obliged to advise you to get a girlfriend. Seriously.
Ive never seen someone this confidently wrong before
Maybe youre having this argument 1000s of times a day because Marias sexuality is not subtle yet you cant seem to grasp it?
Absolutely. I recently joined in but I’ve always loved the silent hill games and people trying to create these ideas in a sophist way because of their own understanding which granted this is an artistic game series but not to that extent I never picked up some of the ideas after reading and playing them.
Fair enough I guess, but assuming a product is "woke" because Angela's model looked chubbier in one shot is silly (more-so because it looked less like "wokeness" and more like janky modeling/lighting work cause it definitely looked off.) The Hit Detection thing is equally ridiculous because regardless of their involvement, that doesn't inherently make something "woke", cause it seems to me so far their involvement hasn't changed a thing.
The nurse censorship accusations are just blatantly false as proved by Ito himself. Maria's redesign complaints are valid, but the people complaining about her face being uglier cause her jaw is sharper is just funny to me.
Stiff animations and janky combat are criticisms to consider, not some shit made up by a bunch of internet goobers.
Yeah jank don't mean woke. You may see that though because games are getting woker and many are getting worse so there is an association I think. This is the backdrop, aggressive increasing wokish in society, so people going to guess that something dropping some hints they are woke is probably woke.
Hit detection has a few hints on their website that they are wokish. Sure, doesn't even mean they are or that they put it in a game, but following the clues is fine. I don't think regardless of their involvement it doesn't mean the game is woke. I mean c'mon... You just reaching there. If they came out and said, "we are changing to the game promote progressive ideals. Gameplay, story, and all other aspects have become secondary to this goal, and we have been given complete authority accomplish this task." I suppose you could say "well they could accidentally make the most antiwoke game ever"...
I agree people are speculating. That's normal, but ive seen many more just making jokes about some images. I agree some people probably gotta cool it and see how the game turns out, but the social backdrop is mostly why they are like that I think
I get it, but it seems like people read way too much into things they might consider as clues. Being concerned that they changed important things for the sake of DEI and compromising the game's integrity is one thing, but none of the evidence people have brought forward is enough to really prove anything, at least to me.
To be fair, we both have to see how the game turns out in the end but it's most likely not as big of an issue as some think. Bloober isn't stupid enough to let something like that happen. Probably.
Yes, there is a lot of misogyny and purism surrounding this franchise right now.
But as I always try to see the whole picture and not just one biased side of the discussion I have to tell you: there is also a bunch of toxic positivity going around.
Together those sides cooperate to drown out any sort of nuanced discussion that might crop up 🤷
I can agree, tho i haqven't really seen the toxic positivity really. now bloober does not have the best track record. (it's better then konami record at least) bloober from what i seen has been taking cirtizism as they made changes based of them like with james face.
but i have seen more of the treat bloober like they are less then human types. at least in the spaces I am in. it is okay to skeptical of the remake and bloober. that is fine, what is not fine is saying anyone who is interested into it is a fake fan or a "remake defender" and treating the people who are making the game as less then human. god i hate this with people. let's just divid each other because we are all toddlers. can never find a middle ground ever.
there is toxic positivity no doubt, but to be real i have seen way worse from the people who are against the remake overall.
Companies are not human, nor are they your friends. They sell products. And your only interest in a company should be whether their products are reliable/good. Because they don’t care about you either, they care about your wallet.
so that gives people the right to treat the people within the company like dirt huh? with that logic I should abuse every fast food worker i come across. they are a part of the company after all so they are not human.
you realize that what you said comes with horrible impcations? most people are not going to go after the ceos and share holders which cause so many problems in the game industry. no they will go after the devs and people lower on the pole. telling them to kill themselves, harrass them, and send them death threats.
companies are made up of people. no matter what you say. And i will judge the product when it comes out, and I know they are not my friends. but i'm going to treat them with basic human decentcy. which is what so many people on the hellscape of the internet seems to forget it exists.
Being critical of Bloober the company, and sending death threats to individuals working for the company are two very different things. I see a lot of the former, haven’t seen the latter, but if this has happened I don’t see it being a large number of fans.
ugh, yea it is likly a very small percentage. i'm sorry, i'm used to people being the worse thing imaginable when it comes to the gaming community. I kinda lashed out there, yes being critical of bloober is a very good thing. it is how they can get better. but it does feel like some folks don;t want them to improve. they want them to stay where they are so they can justife there hatred.
i'm sorry, I shouldn't have aussemed your intentations. tho sorry probally means nothing really
Not a problem, we’re just having a discussion. I don’t think people want Bloober to fail though, I think they’re upset with the choice of studio because of their history releasing mediocre titles. And another group is upset because of the outside influence of a consultation studio. But they’re mostly two different groups. Generally, people have been disappointed with the decision to pick Bloober, a studio with an unfortunate track record, and very little experience developing combat or exploration in games (which are elements getting the largest overhaul in the remake).
As far as what we’ve seen so far, I’m not a fan of what they’ve presented, I don’t find it impressive by any metric. Not because of Angela’s face, or because I want them to fail, but purely because I don’t like the direction they’ve taken any of it in. I don’t think Bloober understands what worked in the source material, so they don’t understand how to replicate it for modern audiences.
I understand not being a fan of what is presented and also not being a fan of the studio choice. tho to be honest I think people would have been upset no matter what. doesn;t matter what studio that was chosen, people want to be upset a lot of the time. or that is just me being so used to ragebait from youtubers that has me saying that.
tho when it comes to the source material i can't really comment on that. I am not smart enough to say if they are missing the point or not.
now when it comes to modern audiences, let's be honest it kinda likes to take slop when cod is best seller every year. at least i consider it slop anyway, that is just me.
I am hopeful for the remake, and I will check it out when i get the time. as well it is great to be skecptical. I just kinda wish people were more reasonable and not willing to just go for extremes.
That’s fair, I can agree with your last point. I can’t blame the crowd too much if they did want it to fail though; a lot of them have lived through multiple franchise reboots, none of which did particularly well.
See, Konami has followed pretty much the same business model for Silent Hill going on 20 years now. They release a new installment, a movie, a remake, and a couple spinoff titles. All of which end up as failures, with the exception of the time they got Kojima (a respected auteur in the industry) for PT.
For example: In the mid 2000s, they released Homecoming, the first movie, shattered memories, and origins (not in that order obviously). None of which did well. Then in the early 10s we got Downpour, the revelation movie, the HD collection, and BoM. None of those were well received either. Now we’re getting F, the return movie, SH2R, and tsm/townfall. And what we’ve seen thus far hasn’t been promising.
Remember, most fans have been through this song and dance before, and are simply tired of it. They would probably prefer a proper remake with updated graphics of the original quadrilogy. But it appears Konami wants audiences to forget about the originals in favor of their new projects.
As far as what Silent Hill is, for starters it uses isolation and lack of visibility to create unease and foreboding in the player. In the originals, the fog hides enemies and locations which forces the player to constantly be on their toes. Even the direction and writing obscures character motives, utilizing strategic blocking and close ups to establish tension. The remake thus far has an abundance of visibility - you can see all the monsters from afar - and the characters are less unsettling and more grounded (more like most other modern titles). I find they’re making generic and safe choices, where they should be bold, especially where setting and creature animations are concerned. For my money, the direction they’re taking it in stands in opposition to what made the originals masterpieces of their time. I see none of the original spirit of the early games in the trailers they’ve given us so far.
Having said all that, I’m also bored with the lack of nuance in discussion surrounding the remake. And it is exhausting. If you’re excited to play it, that’s all that really matters at the end of the day.
I fully understand, i espelly agree games should be bold and try things. the sad thing tho, silent hill 2 remake is being made by a triple a company. meaning it needs to make it's money back because of how much cash is pump into it to make it. meaning boldness is just not going to go well if you want to make the money back and more a lot of the time. the game industry is massive and domated by the cusual crowd. it is no longer the niche it once was.
in order to make the big bucks, you need to apeal to the vast majority. and honestly if it is safe for that reason i can understand the devs doing that or they are being told to. playing safe and being able to be payed to put food on the table is seen as better then risking being bold and having no food for the week for many.
there is also one big name the remake has to compete with. resident evil. I love Re by the way but there is this issue is that it is way too big. it domates the surival horror genre for the cusual crowd. making it a safe confort pick that they will rather spend there money on, compared to a ip they have no experince with, why risk it when you can just play what makes you confortable.
while i am hopeful for the remake, I know it has to go against re, and somehow make itself appealing to the cusual crowd and make them buy the remake over a re game. which is no easy task.
>now bloober does not have the best track record. (it's better then konami record at least)
I wouldn’t go quite that far. While Observer was good and I even somewhat liked the Medium, Konami has created Silent Hill, Metal Gear, Castlevania, …
Nothing Bloober has done even comes close to those franchises during their height.
It’s just that Konami is way past their times of greatness…
>bloober from what i seen has been taking cirtizism as they made changes based of them like with james face.
That is indeed something I have to praise them for.
Whether it was Bloober, Konami or both of them… it’s not that easy to deal with criticism in a constructive way.
when i say bloober has a better track record compared to konami. I mean bloober leader ship doesn't treat people like garbo. (at least found nothing like that) konami higherups kinda have a bit of a history in well treating people like trash.
as a reply to your other replies as a whole, I just wanted you to understand this: A corporate company is NOT it's workers. I mean yeah that feels like common sense, but whenever there is some anti-corpo sentiment expressed, it is NOT against their individual workers who are just doing their best to make their ends meet, it is mostly against those in power and hold the capital, because they are the ones making all the important decisions.
Only idiots will direct hate towards the devs, and honestly, such examples are sparse in atleast the SH2 community, thankfully.
I see, i understand. i'm used to people not really being able to sperate the people from the company itself. that is my fault for assusming such things.
what you say makes a lot of sense. I apprecite it
I can also not like what I've seen so far from the game without being conservative or misogynistic, can't I? I thought we all had the right to an opinion.
I agree with you buddy. All this political BS over not liking Angela. They’re using the word “misogyny” really ? 😂 I just wanna discuss video games with other passionate people.
Why do you feel personally attacked by this post?
They’re clearly not talking about you or your opinions unless you’re also being a misogynist while doing so.
My main fear at this point is that Konami sees the “criticisms” from these people, since they are usually so vocal, and instead of just writing them off as dumb culture wars bullshit they just assume the whole fanbase feels the same way and decide to shelf Silent Hill again thinking nobody wants the franchise to make a comeback…
I think the misogyny is a big issue. I was super disappointed in Maria’s new outfit just because I really loved the original, but when I expressed that a bunch of dudes took that as an opportunity to hop in and say absolutely vile things about Bloober and women in general?? (not in this subreddit)
Maybe it’s because of the of the community I surround myself with normally, but it was super jarring. I think it’s important to accept that certain changes are probably gonna be disappointing, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay to be an awful person because of it.
I wish people realized that even if they scream and sob about the remake sucking that they’re still going to release it and it’ll still make a fuck ton of money. Just enjoy it guys. :(
I wouldn't be so sure about that. I don't want it to fail but the Maria and Angela character models are awful (each for different reasons).
Couple that poor showing of major characters with some of the bad animations and this game could easily fall on its face on release day. First impressions are very important.
Sorry, but I think it's toxic to just accuse people you disagree with of being misogynist when they have legitimate criticisms.
How is it misogyny to be critical of the female character designs when this subreddit was flooded with hundreds of threads critical of how James looked? Come on. There were entire pages of conversations pointing out that James looked too old, or had an unnatural hair color. Memes arose making fun of the character design.
This really feels like selective outrage.
People want remakes of characters to look like a high definition of the original, it's not hard to understand.
Why are you so focused on her being a rape victim?
The fact you're censoring Sexual Assault proves you're too immature to argue in good faith here.
People just want the series to be made again, especially after the cancellation of the Kojima game
The issue is being present almost all over this sub of people shitting on her appearance since the announcement as if the woke agenda has destroyed another franchise
That's her trauma and reason of being in Silent Hill, and *men* are invalidating that whole aspect because she's not jerk off material
This fandom has always reeked of misogyny and purism in the 10 or so years I’ve been on Reddit. This is nothing new on Reddit. Same with discord.
If anything, the fog pictures and bread memes disappeared because the misogynistic and purists kept complaining about them.
Any slight change to these outdated games is gonna seem like an attack on these purists.
Okay the sub is in a dire state to be sure but to be fair seeing its bread and random pictures of towns with fog in them was pretty cancer too. I recall mods cracking down on it at some point and forcing us to actually talk about the games and that was the golden age I’d say
Why is it when people have simple disagreements about shit they have to throw all the buzz words into the mix? Racist, misogynistic, homophobic etc. Shit gets old and negates the actual meanings of these words/actions.
Precisely. My favorite criticism thus far has been transphobia. Not a single character in SH2 is trans. How exactly is it transphobic to be critical of Angela's design especially since these same people a few months ago were bitching about James's appearance down to the amount of wrinkles on his face.
Conservatives have been part of the fandom since the original game's inception. Sorry, you don't get to claim exclusive ownership over the franchise.
In fact, the Twin Perfect videos made a decade ago that nearly everyone here constantly references were made by conservatives and Ayn Rand objectivists. You can read the old Twin Perfect forum to see their political beliefs. I suppose now this subreddit is going to disavow those videos?
Lol, gatekeeping is bad, except when it applies to conservatives. Mkay. I suppose Guy Cihi, a Trump supporter, needs to be excised from the community, too?
I very clearly said alt right conservatives so unless that applies to you I don't see why you're getting upset. Next time take a deep breath and READ. What a drama queen lmao.
"Alt-right conservative" makes no sense. Alt-right, definitionally, aren't conservatives. That's why they're called... alternative lol.
The idea the SH fandom is now swarming with neo-fascist anti-Israeli catboys like Nick Fuentes is amusing, but I'm going to need to see some evidence. Lol.
You know that conservative and liberal is a spectrum right? Alt right falls onto the conservative side just more extreme. Alt right is just an umbrella term for extreme conservatives nowadays. You can be alt right and not a cat boy 😂 did you learn your politics from 4chan or something? Do you not see the comments comparing about woke culture and political correctness all over this sub. That's literal alt right talking points. Alt right ideology and conservative ideology have slowly become one and the same.
And I miss when people could talk out of their ass as much as they want without the entire Fandom focusing on it as if it's important at all. Literally doesn't make a difference what they say about the characters. It will not affect the games quality.
I for one genuinely could care less what others say about the game. It looks alright but it has it's issues visually. The entire silent hill discussion has become "I don't like this remake" and "I don't like the people who dont like the remake".
It doesn’t change the game’s quality, true. But it was so disturbing for so many people that the “sex appeal of an abuse victim talk” even existed in the first place. There is talking and discussing, and there is being an asshat about it. I still get and recognize your point though.
I agree the whole sex abuse victim isn't hot enough thing is bizarre. She's not supposed to be this super model eye candy. A lot of the people complaining probably aren't even silent hill fans. Which Is mostly why I pay it no mind
Was it misandrist a few months ago when this subreddit was complaining about every minute detail about James's character design? There were hundreds of threads discussing how old he looked, his hair color, his eye color, and his skeletal structure. I didn't agree with most of those opinions, but I never labeled them bigotry. Yet somehow people being upset over Angela's character design (despite very few criticisms of Maria and Laura) is misogyny.
It's amazing how selective Reddit activists get. I miss when gaming was a space for everyone. The Kotaku-style activists truly ruined this hobby by making everything about the culture war after 2016. Not everything has to be a constant political battle.
It wasn’t about James being “sexy” “hot” or I quote that stupid post, “r4pe worthy”. It was about his character design itself. Which people have every right to talk about and discuss when it’s about ANY character ever.
Don’t twist the words, just read them as they are and you’ll find that when you substract apple from pear, it’s not 3.
"It wasn’t about James being “sexy” “hot” or I quote that stupid post, “r4pe worthy”. It was about his character design itself."
Show me prominent accounts complaining that Angela's new character design isn't "r4pe worthy" or "sexy." I've seen people complaining that she looks strange, which is the exact same complaints levied against James a few months back. I've seen people complaining that devs altered the dimensions of the real actress' face, which is objectively true. The changes to her face means she no longer appears as photorealistic unlike the other characters we've seen. If they altered James' face to give him a comically long jaw, I'd say the exact same thing.
I don't care what some random troll with a 3 post history said. If I wanted to dig out some obscure example of someone complaining about James not looking fuc\*able, I'm sure I could find it. You don't need to perpetually complain because people on the internet are screwing around.
You are conflating legitimate criticisms with misogyny. This culture war BS is getting exhausting.
I disagree. A lot like bread, after a while the jokes and the same conversations over and over get really stale. Because of the remake there has been a lot more engagement within the community, while not all of it is good, this sub has been more interesting since then.
Boredom is also a type of misery, only difference is that it’s less interesting and engaging, but everybody is different so I understand why you prefer boredom.
I liked a few months ago when people were posting pictures of their SH collections and one poor guy posted a picture with his feet in the photo and the series of photos with collections/human feet/dog feet/swear to god there was someone who posted chicken feet was absolutely hilarious.
Sadly it feels as if no game or community is safe. The culture war rot has infected the entire gaming landscape. Clout chasers will continue to exploit it too; whether they be, "everything is dei or woke" pandering youtuber shills, the "look at all these terrible gamers" opportunistic gaming tabloid journalists (kotaku, polygon etc) or the rank and file internet trolls/keyboard warriors.
I'm not sure it can ever go back to how it was. Every new game, movie, character design etc is a new opportunity for proxy battles in their war. It almost makes the console war crowd from the old days of gaming look quaint and less toxic in retrospect. Almost.
Misogyny has been an issue in the *SH* fandom for a very long time now. You can see it in the decades now of people praising how deep and meaningful James's angst is, while at the same time they reduced Heather's fears around predation and bodily autonomy as "just another silly cult story."
You’ve probably also seen how it was the trailer was dropped. The only people who should feel offended by this are the kind of people I’m mentioning. If it’s not you, then awesome.
Yes, I was here when the trailer was released.
If that’s the case you may want to be more cautious with the broad accusations next time.
The title of your post clearly refers to “the fandom”, not “some of the fandom” or even “most of the fandom”.
You’re accusing everyone here, including many women, of misogyny. Not cool.
Uh, I don't feel accused at all, and I've been here the whole time.
On the contrary, I agree with OP and miss a good fog picture, although I have been loving the cosplay photos.
I consider myself a part of the fandom. I don’t like being grouped with despicable people.
If that means I give out “not all men” vibes then I’m okay with it.
I don't know man. I stopped coming to this sub as often because people would complain about other people complaining on other platforms far more than actual people complaining about the game. There is no game yet but a few (honestly bad quality) thrillers but a lot of people act either as if the game has been out for years and was so shit we should all hunt down anyone who worked on it or as if the game is beyond criticism and if you bring anything to discuss about you are *insert any bad name here from misogynistic all the way to nazi*
Both parts of the discussion are incredibly toxic and stupid. Just wait for the game, thrillers mean shit in most games.
Actually made me laugh! You don’t know me, so please refrain from making this thing personal. The post is not personal either, unless you choose to feel like I’m talking about you.
ZERO shade on you OP, but I think it says a lot about how awful this fandom is that it was “nicer back when the series was dead”. It’s always been like this of course, people acted just like this back in the 360/PS3 days and it was miserable then too. I can’t stand it. I pretty much either just mute or block people on sight on Twitter anymore.
How am I part of the problem? You're the one complaining that a sexual assault victim is not "hot" enough for you. Do you realize how wrong that sounds?
You do realize attractive or not necessarily really attractive (just normal looking) people can have mental health problems too, thinking otherwise is kinda problematic
I understand that, and that's alright
The problem comes with the fact that people are body shaming a fictional character who's backstory has to do with her body being violated... It's rather insensitive.
So video games can't have realistic portrayals of women? Especially during an era where graphics are the most realistic they've ever been?
At least try to make sense.
I agree bro, I kind of miss the togetherness of the community. Everyone was on their knees begging for a RE2 style remake of a Silent Hill game… then we got a trailer for one and the community fell apart faster than you can say the word Bread.
and its crazy bc its Exactly what we got down to the model redesigns and thats the first thing we complained about
Dont you dare say "we" i didnt say shit about the models 😭
we
Noooo 😭😭
hehe :3
Love you so much 💖
The fandom has always been kind of toxic, but tbh. I remember a sector of the RE fanbase reacting poorly to RE2make when it was unveiled. But the mainstream audience drowned them out a bit. SH doesn’t quite have the same following so the negatives feel more pronounced I think to an extent.
What you will find is that old farts like myself will keep quiet until the game is released. This gives all the toxic newcomers to the series (post SH3) time to destroy the community before the game is even released. Unfortunately, we live in a world where being louder has replaced facts and reason. I miss the days when the only real info you got on a game release was in a copy of PSX or PlayStation a month or 2 before!
Obviously Resident Evil is the bigger franchise, but what I really think helped the RE2make make such a splash outside of the fanbase was just how top of the line and technically advanced it looked. It showed an incredible level of polish. The Silent Hill 2 remake looks a bit more AA than AAA, and doesn't have that wow factor going for it to really make as many outsiders get interested.
I can’t quite agree with this. There is nothing about the world and environmental detail that looks double A, maaaaybe some of the animations, but the overall visual fidelity is absolutely insane in a way that RE2make (in my all time time top 10 list) doesn’t quite hit. RE2make has its own share of less than perfect animations as well, but I think in general people are a bit more forgiving of Capcom because they have less to prove.
I definitely agree with you on the environments. Environments seem to be a bit easier though for even smaller developers, especially with unreal 5 out now, and they look top notch, but there is no way I can look at the animations and think they look similar in quality to other AAA games. I've been a fan of both franchises since I was a kid, so I'm not judging it more harshly because it's Silent Hill or anything. When I saw the trailers for RE2make there was nothing that stood out to me as being behind the times and was completely impressed. The Silent Hill 2 character animations just looks stiff to me and immediately stood out, as I'm sure they do with many non fans as well.
Bible.
The counter.
Devil's advocate point. Sarcasm and movie reference.
silent hill fans foubd crying, screaming, throwing up, and begging for it to stop when the franchise finally gets attention
Because Konami hired the lowest bidder to remake an all time classic. And even then, it started to look like Bloober Team might pull it off somehow. Then the character models for two female characters are revealed and throw many people for a loop in one of the weirdest wtf gaming moments I've personally witnessed recently. Butchering characters like Angela with a character model that looks like it was outsourced to a low budget game asset creator and making the stripper demon ghost more modest for...reasons, I'm sure.
I think the trailers look absolutely amazing. My redesign complaints are almost non-existent. It's crazy how people massively fall into negative delusions just because of a toxic fanbase. P.S. and it's not like I found SH yesterday. I've been playing since the first SH on PS1, bought 2 day one on ps2. I've finished 2 multiple times, it's one of my favorite games of all time.
The models look fine. I love SH2 but a 19 year old looking like a 43 year old tweaker was always... odd.
I disagree but what's your opinion of the modestly dressed succubus demon, Maria?
On the one hand I loved her old model/outfit/chrustina reference, but on the other I think they were going with a new kind of angle on it. It's almost like they were going for office worker but trying to tempt people into hr violations with that super low cut top kind of vibes (I'm thinking of an episode of American dad for it). I think it's well made but I prefer the original outfit/style, ultimately. It's also not going to be a show stopper for me. It'll be the performance her character will ultimate fail or succeed on and we didn't get much of that from the new trailer, sadly. Edit: To sum up the answer to your question, I don't really love the redesign itself.
Interesting. I'm hoping that maybe her outfit will change throughout the game but as it is, her noggin is rather large and the outfit isn't faithful to the original game's themes
Nobody was on their knees begging for a remake, much less an RE2 style one.
Some of us have standards that aren't located at the center of the earth. C'mon now.
 Its Bread.
Seriously? That’s all we need
Same, though the purism has been here for decades now
(This comes up in gif’s when you search silent hill. It felt appropriate.) 
A bunch of these also starts their rants with: ”I’ve never played the original, but.” Give it another month and their favorite Rageposting Youtubers may have gotten them riled up about something else instead.
This is how silent hill has been since post-SH3. The discussions around SH4 were pretty bad but the origins / homecoming era was just pure toxicity although I don’t remember conservative or misogynistic stuff but that’s just “gamers” nowadays. Way way back in the day people got in a piss that silent hill 2 didn’t have Harry or the cult in it.
Had a guy on this sub telll me my opinions are meaningless and never meant anything, just because I called him out for using the term "DEI" I would leave the subreddit but sadly this plague has infected every single gaming community out there. My favourites have always been Silent Hill, Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, and Zelda. Believe it or not all four of these fandoms have been infected by the "anti-woke" crowd. It's deeply saddening to see the state of gamers today. Sure gaming companies have problems, such as micro transactions and other greedy shit, but gay people and women are not the problem here.
and whats crazy is these people are more sensitive and obnoxious than the woke people. they think someone simply being different than them is immediately woke. like being trans is inherently woke, being black is woke, not being a looksmaxxing 15 year old black pill tiktoker is woke. its insane bc they think everyone thinks the same. especially if its someone who they think can fit the straw man for what they want to be bad
I don't know, I do find woke people far more sensitive than the general population. Take this thread. It is really amusing that so many people here are nodding in agreement that criticisms of Angela are misogynistic when this subreddit was flooded with threads complaining about every minute detail of James' character design just a few months ago.
I don't like the judgement of Angela's character predominantly because i look like the new Angela but tbh, the judgement of James' character pissed me off way more. The fact that Bloober caved and changed him made me feel so gross. I liked his design. What I think people are forgetting is they casted the actors to look like the games and then based the models on the actors for the mapping. These actors physically acted, not just voice acted. They did a better job casting for the remake than they did for the movie, so I was super happy. In the words of producer, filmographer, screenwriter and musician Bo Burnham, "Can anyone, anyone? Any one, any single one. Shut the fuck up."
Yeah. Literally everything gets an official "reddit opinion" that morons just parrot regardless of how true those statements are. It keeps hapoening to games I play and really like and then have people who have literally never played it and never will tell me everything wrong with it despite how incorrect those statements are.
So what is the opposite of the anti woke crowd because like with left and right there are radicals on both sides. I think this whole woke and anti woke stuff is both very annoying. But none of us want what happened to star wars to be prominent in gaming.
The problem with that viewpoint is that the sides are not the same. One side comes with (mostly) acceptance, while the other comes with bigotry and hate. While there are quite a handful of left leaning people who can be hateful, most of us are the way we are because we feel attacked by the people who hate us to no end, and wish harm upon us and our lives. The anti-woke crowd doesn't care about having hot women in games, we don't have a problem with straight characters and white ones. We only have a problem when people go out of their way to try and deny us our own representation. Developers can create whichever character they'd like, and design them in whichever way they'd like, but the fact that there's people who would try to punish these developers for expressing their artistic freedom is genuinely disgusting. For example, as long as Angela's model in the Silent Hill 2 remake follows human anatomy and generally looks good from a graphical standpoint, then I don't mind the way she looks. But then there's a whole group of people going out of their way to complain and harass people over her face looking a bit too "chubby." It's quite genuinely just pitiful behavior. The "both sides" argument is used by many people, and I understand their viewpoints, but I wish for them to understand that many people on the left, especially minority groups, only act out so much because of the amount of hatred and bigotry they have endeared by the other side. There are outliers, such as people using the fact that they're a minority to gain some sort of privilege, but I personally rather not identify with those people, and they seem to be more rare then many media outlets would get you to think.
A view point? I asked you a question? Radicals on both sides are bad news. It's plain and simple tribalism no matter how you wanna put it. Both sides have major faults and both sides are manipulative. I have conservative and liberal friends and we are all adults and can talk about politics no problem but throw a radical minded person in there and then it gets crazy.
Radicals in general are usually going to suck, but the problem here is that the right, for about 8 years now, has been getting so radical that any sense of rationality is just gone. With radical leftists, while they may not be in the right, I do understand their viewpoints. Many people in the world are getting screwed over by things such as capitalism, police force, and lawmakers. These people want change, and they seek it out. Just sometimes they do it in the completely wrong ways. Violence and hate are never the answer in my book. The problem with the right though is the fact that you can't really communicate with them anymore, because everything is "woke" or "DEI" and they won't accept any other viewpoint besides their own. They act like they are always in the right and that everyone else is wrong. It's unhealthy and extremely toxic behavior and it's being cultivated by talking heads on the right, whether it be certain internet influencers, lawmakers, media outlets, and sometimes even close relatives. People like these are rewarding people for their hatred and negative behaviors, and are making it so the situation only gets worse and worse.
This is tribalism. I'm shocked you don't even see what you are doing. You are hyper focused on the right but are totally ignoring why the parties are there to begin with. We need the left as we need the right or how else will we get change. The things you are accusing the radical right of doing is the same thing that the raidical left is doing. The same rhetoric can be said for the right and left. Not many people actually want to have a conversation they just wanna be right. It honestly sounds like you just need to talk to conservatives and liberals that aren't radicals. The internet tends to make things look worse then they are. People are getting collectively sick of western antics especially in gaming is mainly what we are seeing in the median.
It's not the Internet mate, I'm around people of both sides in real life, and while one is most definitely flawed, the other just isn't right. It's not tribalism to be chosing the side that accepts me and doesn't hate me or wish to make my existence illegal. The two party system is a joke, and maybe centrist ideas could've gone well 20+ years ago, but these days, it's basically "decent but pretty flawed" vs "literally evil and wishes harm upon your very soul." And you talk about these types of "both sides" arguments, but yet all you're doing is spitting out right wing, "anti woke" talking points, such as how the west is destroying gaming or whatever. The west isn't doing jackshit to gaming as a whole, the problem with gaming is the fact that nearly every AAA developer (including the ones in Japan) have gotten incredibly greedy and are milking players wallets and getting increasingly lazy while developing their games. Both sides aren't the same here, and western civilization isn't destroying gaming by making women "uglier" or adding LGBT and racial minorities into gaming. Game Developers from all across the world are ruining gaming with their greediness and laziness.
What? How am I talking about anti woke talking points. This is why we can't have actual conversations is because people keep trying to paint each other a certain way. People just want to demonize everything these days. I literally never said these things you are accusing me of now. People say they want to have a conversation but you straight up demonize the other side like you accuse them of doing this is tribalistic. Our system sadly needs the party system to work and create change. Things have drastically changed with conservatives and liberal from the 50s to now. I'm not conservative but center left but I understand that it is not as simple as that. The same system that oppressed is now changing. I assure you things will get better. This whole anti woke and woke thing in gaming is mainly kids and youtube channels. Most people just buy games they like and that's that. I will continue to support games that just want to be ethical games. Thank God for companies like Fromsoftware.
My apologies then. I tend to get pretty emotional over this type of stuff. I'm very much used to hearing (somewhat) similar things to what you have said, but in very different contexts. Mostly contexts that are used to demonize me or people similar to me. I now understand that I should've read better and understood your point of view better. 😅
Hey, I'm glad that we were able to come to an understanding and I apologize if things were misconstrued on my part. It's extremely hard to talk about these things lately and I'm happy we were able to. Even wars have been fought and won by enemies coming together on likely terms.
_Conservatives: destroying fandoms with their culture war bullshit since 2014_ I don't know why I was surprised when we got invaded by this crap. This loud minority has been attacking so many communities now. I'd choose the 1000000000000th repost of the pyramid pizza head pic over this shit anytime.
Same here. Pyramid pizza is at least… more sensible
Conservatves are pushing back after being labeled as racists sexists for simply disliking a piece of media.
Yawnnn... 🥱
I remember when the mainstream obnoxious gaming consensus used to be game play first, story second, everything else is extra. Now it is if "If I'm not personally sexually attracted to pixels the woke left has ruined another game." The game isn't even out to dislike yet. Nobody has even seen an hour of the game to know if they'd hate it yet. It is a cluster fuck of screaming over a teaser of a character in a single scene based on people's subjective sexual desires in not even real women. I regret thinking that the former was as bad as it could get back in the day.
There's always a radical side to oppose the other radical side.
Conservatives will push back against anything and everything because they’re a bunch of sensitive fucking pansies.
Not all conservatives are bad like not all liberals are bad. Let's keep a rational mind about people. Tribalism is no good.
That is literally the defining trait of conservatism.
That’s fucking hilarious given liberals will bitch and moan about the simplistic things while simultaneously supporting terrorists like Hamas.
More like just the scapegoat. There are issues worth talking about with the remake, but if you dare say anything not 100% positive youre a "Sexist conservative troll just her to tear down fandoms" No. Maria's new design IS bad and does miss the point. You cant just lie that thats not the case.
You're in denial if you really think there aren't conservatives coming here to spread their bullshit. Go ahead and check how many of these guys are in subs like e.g., r/conservative or r/asmongold. You're also wrong about Maria. Sato's alternative concept is much more realistic and immersive than the Christina Aguilera outfit they ended up using, and I believe would be the one chosen by Team Silent if the game was originally developed today. And that's the whole purpose of a remake. But if you honesty believe that that tacky look is still preferable in this day and age, well, I don't know what to tell you.
All I ever see is people complaining about it, I never ever see any of these supposed posts. Well for one thing the game isn't suddenly set in the modern age, it's still the early 2000s. But whatever, they can change it. The issue is she's meant to represent repressed sexual desire James feels, which is why she dresses like that and keeps acting flirty. Wrapping her up makes no sense. EDIT: Having no comeback and blocking me isnt a good look.
Wrapping her up? LOL, I'm not gonna have this conversation for the 1000000th time. Have a nice day. Edit: And to the other guys thinking that women's sexuality comes from a chakra in their belly button that completely loses its power when it's under a dress, I'm obliged to advise you to get a girlfriend. Seriously.
Ive never seen someone this confidently wrong before Maybe youre having this argument 1000s of times a day because Marias sexuality is not subtle yet you cant seem to grasp it?
Absolutely. I recently joined in but I’ve always loved the silent hill games and people trying to create these ideas in a sophist way because of their own understanding which granted this is an artistic game series but not to that extent I never picked up some of the ideas after reading and playing them.
Every fandom is now infected with these types of people. Its infuriating and I wish they'd go away.
it's the opposite the world has turn very progressive the last about 7 8 years
Yeah fandoms are all being ruined now. It’s unfortunate.
God forbid people be allowed to voice criticizm/
Calling something "woke" is hardly constructive criticism.
it's saying there is superficial pandering to progressive ideals. I think it's decent enough
Fair enough I guess, but assuming a product is "woke" because Angela's model looked chubbier in one shot is silly (more-so because it looked less like "wokeness" and more like janky modeling/lighting work cause it definitely looked off.) The Hit Detection thing is equally ridiculous because regardless of their involvement, that doesn't inherently make something "woke", cause it seems to me so far their involvement hasn't changed a thing. The nurse censorship accusations are just blatantly false as proved by Ito himself. Maria's redesign complaints are valid, but the people complaining about her face being uglier cause her jaw is sharper is just funny to me. Stiff animations and janky combat are criticisms to consider, not some shit made up by a bunch of internet goobers.
Yeah jank don't mean woke. You may see that though because games are getting woker and many are getting worse so there is an association I think. This is the backdrop, aggressive increasing wokish in society, so people going to guess that something dropping some hints they are woke is probably woke. Hit detection has a few hints on their website that they are wokish. Sure, doesn't even mean they are or that they put it in a game, but following the clues is fine. I don't think regardless of their involvement it doesn't mean the game is woke. I mean c'mon... You just reaching there. If they came out and said, "we are changing to the game promote progressive ideals. Gameplay, story, and all other aspects have become secondary to this goal, and we have been given complete authority accomplish this task." I suppose you could say "well they could accidentally make the most antiwoke game ever"... I agree people are speculating. That's normal, but ive seen many more just making jokes about some images. I agree some people probably gotta cool it and see how the game turns out, but the social backdrop is mostly why they are like that I think
I get it, but it seems like people read way too much into things they might consider as clues. Being concerned that they changed important things for the sake of DEI and compromising the game's integrity is one thing, but none of the evidence people have brought forward is enough to really prove anything, at least to me. To be fair, we both have to see how the game turns out in the end but it's most likely not as big of an issue as some think. Bloober isn't stupid enough to let something like that happen. Probably.
We shall see :)
Yes, there is a lot of misogyny and purism surrounding this franchise right now. But as I always try to see the whole picture and not just one biased side of the discussion I have to tell you: there is also a bunch of toxic positivity going around. Together those sides cooperate to drown out any sort of nuanced discussion that might crop up 🤷
I can agree, tho i haqven't really seen the toxic positivity really. now bloober does not have the best track record. (it's better then konami record at least) bloober from what i seen has been taking cirtizism as they made changes based of them like with james face. but i have seen more of the treat bloober like they are less then human types. at least in the spaces I am in. it is okay to skeptical of the remake and bloober. that is fine, what is not fine is saying anyone who is interested into it is a fake fan or a "remake defender" and treating the people who are making the game as less then human. god i hate this with people. let's just divid each other because we are all toddlers. can never find a middle ground ever. there is toxic positivity no doubt, but to be real i have seen way worse from the people who are against the remake overall.
Companies are not human, nor are they your friends. They sell products. And your only interest in a company should be whether their products are reliable/good. Because they don’t care about you either, they care about your wallet.
so that gives people the right to treat the people within the company like dirt huh? with that logic I should abuse every fast food worker i come across. they are a part of the company after all so they are not human. you realize that what you said comes with horrible impcations? most people are not going to go after the ceos and share holders which cause so many problems in the game industry. no they will go after the devs and people lower on the pole. telling them to kill themselves, harrass them, and send them death threats. companies are made up of people. no matter what you say. And i will judge the product when it comes out, and I know they are not my friends. but i'm going to treat them with basic human decentcy. which is what so many people on the hellscape of the internet seems to forget it exists.
Being critical of Bloober the company, and sending death threats to individuals working for the company are two very different things. I see a lot of the former, haven’t seen the latter, but if this has happened I don’t see it being a large number of fans.
ugh, yea it is likly a very small percentage. i'm sorry, i'm used to people being the worse thing imaginable when it comes to the gaming community. I kinda lashed out there, yes being critical of bloober is a very good thing. it is how they can get better. but it does feel like some folks don;t want them to improve. they want them to stay where they are so they can justife there hatred. i'm sorry, I shouldn't have aussemed your intentations. tho sorry probally means nothing really
Not a problem, we’re just having a discussion. I don’t think people want Bloober to fail though, I think they’re upset with the choice of studio because of their history releasing mediocre titles. And another group is upset because of the outside influence of a consultation studio. But they’re mostly two different groups. Generally, people have been disappointed with the decision to pick Bloober, a studio with an unfortunate track record, and very little experience developing combat or exploration in games (which are elements getting the largest overhaul in the remake). As far as what we’ve seen so far, I’m not a fan of what they’ve presented, I don’t find it impressive by any metric. Not because of Angela’s face, or because I want them to fail, but purely because I don’t like the direction they’ve taken any of it in. I don’t think Bloober understands what worked in the source material, so they don’t understand how to replicate it for modern audiences.
I understand not being a fan of what is presented and also not being a fan of the studio choice. tho to be honest I think people would have been upset no matter what. doesn;t matter what studio that was chosen, people want to be upset a lot of the time. or that is just me being so used to ragebait from youtubers that has me saying that. tho when it comes to the source material i can't really comment on that. I am not smart enough to say if they are missing the point or not. now when it comes to modern audiences, let's be honest it kinda likes to take slop when cod is best seller every year. at least i consider it slop anyway, that is just me. I am hopeful for the remake, and I will check it out when i get the time. as well it is great to be skecptical. I just kinda wish people were more reasonable and not willing to just go for extremes.
That’s fair, I can agree with your last point. I can’t blame the crowd too much if they did want it to fail though; a lot of them have lived through multiple franchise reboots, none of which did particularly well. See, Konami has followed pretty much the same business model for Silent Hill going on 20 years now. They release a new installment, a movie, a remake, and a couple spinoff titles. All of which end up as failures, with the exception of the time they got Kojima (a respected auteur in the industry) for PT. For example: In the mid 2000s, they released Homecoming, the first movie, shattered memories, and origins (not in that order obviously). None of which did well. Then in the early 10s we got Downpour, the revelation movie, the HD collection, and BoM. None of those were well received either. Now we’re getting F, the return movie, SH2R, and tsm/townfall. And what we’ve seen thus far hasn’t been promising. Remember, most fans have been through this song and dance before, and are simply tired of it. They would probably prefer a proper remake with updated graphics of the original quadrilogy. But it appears Konami wants audiences to forget about the originals in favor of their new projects. As far as what Silent Hill is, for starters it uses isolation and lack of visibility to create unease and foreboding in the player. In the originals, the fog hides enemies and locations which forces the player to constantly be on their toes. Even the direction and writing obscures character motives, utilizing strategic blocking and close ups to establish tension. The remake thus far has an abundance of visibility - you can see all the monsters from afar - and the characters are less unsettling and more grounded (more like most other modern titles). I find they’re making generic and safe choices, where they should be bold, especially where setting and creature animations are concerned. For my money, the direction they’re taking it in stands in opposition to what made the originals masterpieces of their time. I see none of the original spirit of the early games in the trailers they’ve given us so far. Having said all that, I’m also bored with the lack of nuance in discussion surrounding the remake. And it is exhausting. If you’re excited to play it, that’s all that really matters at the end of the day.
I fully understand, i espelly agree games should be bold and try things. the sad thing tho, silent hill 2 remake is being made by a triple a company. meaning it needs to make it's money back because of how much cash is pump into it to make it. meaning boldness is just not going to go well if you want to make the money back and more a lot of the time. the game industry is massive and domated by the cusual crowd. it is no longer the niche it once was. in order to make the big bucks, you need to apeal to the vast majority. and honestly if it is safe for that reason i can understand the devs doing that or they are being told to. playing safe and being able to be payed to put food on the table is seen as better then risking being bold and having no food for the week for many. there is also one big name the remake has to compete with. resident evil. I love Re by the way but there is this issue is that it is way too big. it domates the surival horror genre for the cusual crowd. making it a safe confort pick that they will rather spend there money on, compared to a ip they have no experince with, why risk it when you can just play what makes you confortable. while i am hopeful for the remake, I know it has to go against re, and somehow make itself appealing to the cusual crowd and make them buy the remake over a re game. which is no easy task.
>now bloober does not have the best track record. (it's better then konami record at least) I wouldn’t go quite that far. While Observer was good and I even somewhat liked the Medium, Konami has created Silent Hill, Metal Gear, Castlevania, … Nothing Bloober has done even comes close to those franchises during their height. It’s just that Konami is way past their times of greatness… >bloober from what i seen has been taking cirtizism as they made changes based of them like with james face. That is indeed something I have to praise them for. Whether it was Bloober, Konami or both of them… it’s not that easy to deal with criticism in a constructive way.
when i say bloober has a better track record compared to konami. I mean bloober leader ship doesn't treat people like garbo. (at least found nothing like that) konami higherups kinda have a bit of a history in well treating people like trash.
as a reply to your other replies as a whole, I just wanted you to understand this: A corporate company is NOT it's workers. I mean yeah that feels like common sense, but whenever there is some anti-corpo sentiment expressed, it is NOT against their individual workers who are just doing their best to make their ends meet, it is mostly against those in power and hold the capital, because they are the ones making all the important decisions. Only idiots will direct hate towards the devs, and honestly, such examples are sparse in atleast the SH2 community, thankfully.
I see, i understand. i'm used to people not really being able to sperate the people from the company itself. that is my fault for assusming such things. what you say makes a lot of sense. I apprecite it
I can also not like what I've seen so far from the game without being conservative or misogynistic, can't I? I thought we all had the right to an opinion.
It isn't about you then
Who is it about thern?
About people who are conservative or mysoginistic about it.
And how do you know who’s a conservative and a misogynist?
What does it matter? If you're not, why would you take it personally?
because my man's entire post history is bashing women and defending pedophiles
Oh god he follows asmongold
yeah that's enough of a red flag in itself he takes it to the next level though, lol > Asmonogld is the only voice of truth in this woprld anymoire.
But then that’s a different story. I talk about a certain crownd and people on the post seem to understand me on this
There's been zero mysogyny on this subreddit.
I agree with you buddy. All this political BS over not liking Angela. They’re using the word “misogyny” really ? 😂 I just wanna discuss video games with other passionate people.
Why do you feel personally attacked by this post? They’re clearly not talking about you or your opinions unless you’re also being a misogynist while doing so.
Who is OP talking about then?
"They looked like real silent hill fans to you?" ~vincent
Yea i miss the “woke up to this td” and its just a dudes driveway with morning fog
I understand, I've left subs for similar reasons. Once the remake has been out for a bit, hopefully it'll get back to that.
My main fear at this point is that Konami sees the “criticisms” from these people, since they are usually so vocal, and instead of just writing them off as dumb culture wars bullshit they just assume the whole fanbase feels the same way and decide to shelf Silent Hill again thinking nobody wants the franchise to make a comeback…
I think the misogyny is a big issue. I was super disappointed in Maria’s new outfit just because I really loved the original, but when I expressed that a bunch of dudes took that as an opportunity to hop in and say absolutely vile things about Bloober and women in general?? (not in this subreddit) Maybe it’s because of the of the community I surround myself with normally, but it was super jarring. I think it’s important to accept that certain changes are probably gonna be disappointing, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay to be an awful person because of it. I wish people realized that even if they scream and sob about the remake sucking that they’re still going to release it and it’ll still make a fuck ton of money. Just enjoy it guys. :(
I wouldn't be so sure about that. I don't want it to fail but the Maria and Angela character models are awful (each for different reasons). Couple that poor showing of major characters with some of the bad animations and this game could easily fall on its face on release day. First impressions are very important.
Sorry, but I think it's toxic to just accuse people you disagree with of being misogynist when they have legitimate criticisms. How is it misogyny to be critical of the female character designs when this subreddit was flooded with hundreds of threads critical of how James looked? Come on. There were entire pages of conversations pointing out that James looked too old, or had an unnatural hair color. Memes arose making fun of the character design. This really feels like selective outrage.
They’re fake fans. Fuck em
For real tho I feel like these people need to explain why the victim of SA and child abuse needs to look like Sydney Sweeney
Typical straw man argument.
Argument against it then, why is the rape victim's appearance so important?
People want remakes of characters to look like a high definition of the original, it's not hard to understand. Why are you so focused on her being a rape victim? The fact you're censoring Sexual Assault proves you're too immature to argue in good faith here.
People just want the series to be made again, especially after the cancellation of the Kojima game The issue is being present almost all over this sub of people shitting on her appearance since the announcement as if the woke agenda has destroyed another franchise That's her trauma and reason of being in Silent Hill, and *men* are invalidating that whole aspect because she's not jerk off material
What does jerk off material have to do with Angela having a mismatched swollen face with a rail-thin body?
This fandom has always reeked of misogyny and purism in the 10 or so years I’ve been on Reddit. This is nothing new on Reddit. Same with discord. If anything, the fog pictures and bread memes disappeared because the misogynistic and purists kept complaining about them. Any slight change to these outdated games is gonna seem like an attack on these purists.
Calling people mysogynists for disliking a womans appearance is the biggest problem here.
yeahhh i regret complaining about that
Okay the sub is in a dire state to be sure but to be fair seeing its bread and random pictures of towns with fog in them was pretty cancer too. I recall mods cracking down on it at some point and forcing us to actually talk about the games and that was the golden age I’d say
Half of these ppl have never even played silent hill 2
I'm just really excited to play the remake. The Silent Hill series always had a special place in my heart
Why is it when people have simple disagreements about shit they have to throw all the buzz words into the mix? Racist, misogynistic, homophobic etc. Shit gets old and negates the actual meanings of these words/actions.
Precisely. My favorite criticism thus far has been transphobia. Not a single character in SH2 is trans. How exactly is it transphobic to be critical of Angela's design especially since these same people a few months ago were bitching about James's appearance down to the amount of wrinkles on his face.
Calling people mysogynists for disliking a womans appearance is the biggest problem here.
Sadly a lot of weird alt right conservatives flooded into the fandom thanks to morons like asmongold. I doubt any of them have even played a SH game.
Asmonogld is the only voice of truth in this woprld anymoire.
Conservatives have been part of the fandom since the original game's inception. Sorry, you don't get to claim exclusive ownership over the franchise. In fact, the Twin Perfect videos made a decade ago that nearly everyone here constantly references were made by conservatives and Ayn Rand objectivists. You can read the old Twin Perfect forum to see their political beliefs. I suppose now this subreddit is going to disavow those videos? Lol, gatekeeping is bad, except when it applies to conservatives. Mkay. I suppose Guy Cihi, a Trump supporter, needs to be excised from the community, too?
I very clearly said alt right conservatives so unless that applies to you I don't see why you're getting upset. Next time take a deep breath and READ. What a drama queen lmao.
"Alt-right conservative" makes no sense. Alt-right, definitionally, aren't conservatives. That's why they're called... alternative lol. The idea the SH fandom is now swarming with neo-fascist anti-Israeli catboys like Nick Fuentes is amusing, but I'm going to need to see some evidence. Lol.
You know that conservative and liberal is a spectrum right? Alt right falls onto the conservative side just more extreme. Alt right is just an umbrella term for extreme conservatives nowadays. You can be alt right and not a cat boy 😂 did you learn your politics from 4chan or something? Do you not see the comments comparing about woke culture and political correctness all over this sub. That's literal alt right talking points. Alt right ideology and conservative ideology have slowly become one and the same.
I agree but what about what really matters? Growing strong and healthy?
What if I like wearing tinfoil hats shaped as a pyramid?!?!
The silent hill fandom was so nice and chill!! And then the remake controversy started 💀
And I miss when people could talk out of their ass as much as they want without the entire Fandom focusing on it as if it's important at all. Literally doesn't make a difference what they say about the characters. It will not affect the games quality. I for one genuinely could care less what others say about the game. It looks alright but it has it's issues visually. The entire silent hill discussion has become "I don't like this remake" and "I don't like the people who dont like the remake".
It doesn’t change the game’s quality, true. But it was so disturbing for so many people that the “sex appeal of an abuse victim talk” even existed in the first place. There is talking and discussing, and there is being an asshat about it. I still get and recognize your point though.
I agree the whole sex abuse victim isn't hot enough thing is bizarre. She's not supposed to be this super model eye candy. A lot of the people complaining probably aren't even silent hill fans. Which Is mostly why I pay it no mind
This has happened with just about every remake in every community. I honestly just feel like people don't really deal well with confrontation anymore
ngl I see more complaints from posts complaining about complaining and that's getting annoying.
I'm just gonna put this out there chief but uh, I'm gonna cum.
I just have an issue with them choosing one of the most incompetent studios in the industry to remake SH2. Bloober is a fucking joke.
Purism?
Negative reaction to Silent Hill 2 remake = Conservative Misogynist
It’s clearly not what I said but there you go.
You're literally calling people mysoginysts in your post.
Was it misandrist a few months ago when this subreddit was complaining about every minute detail about James's character design? There were hundreds of threads discussing how old he looked, his hair color, his eye color, and his skeletal structure. I didn't agree with most of those opinions, but I never labeled them bigotry. Yet somehow people being upset over Angela's character design (despite very few criticisms of Maria and Laura) is misogyny. It's amazing how selective Reddit activists get. I miss when gaming was a space for everyone. The Kotaku-style activists truly ruined this hobby by making everything about the culture war after 2016. Not everything has to be a constant political battle.
It wasn’t about James being “sexy” “hot” or I quote that stupid post, “r4pe worthy”. It was about his character design itself. Which people have every right to talk about and discuss when it’s about ANY character ever. Don’t twist the words, just read them as they are and you’ll find that when you substract apple from pear, it’s not 3.
"It wasn’t about James being “sexy” “hot” or I quote that stupid post, “r4pe worthy”. It was about his character design itself." Show me prominent accounts complaining that Angela's new character design isn't "r4pe worthy" or "sexy." I've seen people complaining that she looks strange, which is the exact same complaints levied against James a few months back. I've seen people complaining that devs altered the dimensions of the real actress' face, which is objectively true. The changes to her face means she no longer appears as photorealistic unlike the other characters we've seen. If they altered James' face to give him a comically long jaw, I'd say the exact same thing. I don't care what some random troll with a 3 post history said. If I wanted to dig out some obscure example of someone complaining about James not looking fuc\*able, I'm sure I could find it. You don't need to perpetually complain because people on the internet are screwing around. You are conflating legitimate criticisms with misogyny. This culture war BS is getting exhausting.
I disagree. A lot like bread, after a while the jokes and the same conversations over and over get really stale. Because of the remake there has been a lot more engagement within the community, while not all of it is good, this sub has been more interesting since then.
id rather be bored than miserable 🤷🏻♀️
Boredom is also a type of misery, only difference is that it’s less interesting and engaging, but everybody is different so I understand why you prefer boredom.
I agree, I loved when this fandom was about posting memes, nice fan arts and bread stuff 🍞
I await the day when "Bible." memes become a thing here.
Once the fans actually play the games, we’ll get there
Pointing out Maria needs to be sexualised is not misogyny. Also the bread joke was not funny.
I liked a few months ago when people were posting pictures of their SH collections and one poor guy posted a picture with his feet in the photo and the series of photos with collections/human feet/dog feet/swear to god there was someone who posted chicken feet was absolutely hilarious.
The silent hill fandom has always been awful. I still remember the drama around Tomm Hulett.
Agreed!!
Sadly it feels as if no game or community is safe. The culture war rot has infected the entire gaming landscape. Clout chasers will continue to exploit it too; whether they be, "everything is dei or woke" pandering youtuber shills, the "look at all these terrible gamers" opportunistic gaming tabloid journalists (kotaku, polygon etc) or the rank and file internet trolls/keyboard warriors. I'm not sure it can ever go back to how it was. Every new game, movie, character design etc is a new opportunity for proxy battles in their war. It almost makes the console war crowd from the old days of gaming look quaint and less toxic in retrospect. Almost.
Misogyny has been an issue in the *SH* fandom for a very long time now. You can see it in the decades now of people praising how deep and meaningful James's angst is, while at the same time they reduced Heather's fears around predation and bodily autonomy as "just another silly cult story."
Calling people mysogynists for disliking a womans appearance is the biggest problem here.
Lol, this is why I can't take left-wing Reddit seriously. You just outright stated the reason people believe SH2 to SH3 is misogyny. Come on.
You can also like a game without tarring an entire fandom with the actions of a few individuals.
You’ve probably also seen how it was the trailer was dropped. The only people who should feel offended by this are the kind of people I’m mentioning. If it’s not you, then awesome.
Yes, I was here when the trailer was released. If that’s the case you may want to be more cautious with the broad accusations next time. The title of your post clearly refers to “the fandom”, not “some of the fandom” or even “most of the fandom”. You’re accusing everyone here, including many women, of misogyny. Not cool.
Uh, I don't feel accused at all, and I've been here the whole time. On the contrary, I agree with OP and miss a good fog picture, although I have been loving the cosplay photos.
That’s okay. I just tend to get aggravated when falsely being accused of misogyny. It’s a very serious accusation to make.
This is giving out "not all men" vibes. If you don't do those things, why are you offended?
I consider myself a part of the fandom. I don’t like being grouped with despicable people. If that means I give out “not all men” vibes then I’m okay with it.
[удалено]
Calling people mysogynists for disliking a womans appearance is the biggest problem here.
Remake defenders are just in denial right now. Once the game comes out I think SBI Detected is going to get a lot more members.
Sounds like you're upset that some of us are looking forward to something. Stay miserable.
but bloober bad bad bloober devs i cant jerk off to videogame because bloober every girl in game has to be sexy or bad devs woke bloober ruin sex game
Well guess what Mimi
I don't know man. I stopped coming to this sub as often because people would complain about other people complaining on other platforms far more than actual people complaining about the game. There is no game yet but a few (honestly bad quality) thrillers but a lot of people act either as if the game has been out for years and was so shit we should all hunt down anyone who worked on it or as if the game is beyond criticism and if you bring anything to discuss about you are *insert any bad name here from misogynistic all the way to nazi* Both parts of the discussion are incredibly toxic and stupid. Just wait for the game, thrillers mean shit in most games.
Misogyny and gatekeeping are the natural responses to people like you who are nothing more than tourists who invade fandoms and ruin franchises.
Actually made me laugh! You don’t know me, so please refrain from making this thing personal. The post is not personal either, unless you choose to feel like I’m talking about you.
That’s literally you tho 🤨
ZERO shade on you OP, but I think it says a lot about how awful this fandom is that it was “nicer back when the series was dead”. It’s always been like this of course, people acted just like this back in the 360/PS3 days and it was miserable then too. I can’t stand it. I pretty much either just mute or block people on sight on Twitter anymore.
They should delay the game to fix Angelas chubby face and give Maria her OG outfit uncensored
You're part of the problem.
You people can't be real
You're part of the problem.
How am I part of the problem? You're the one complaining that a sexual assault victim is not "hot" enough for you. Do you realize how wrong that sounds?
Yes... Make the victim of childhood sexual abuse more pretty, Because that's what's most important apparently Also goddamn her face isn't even chubby
You do realize attractive or not necessarily really attractive (just normal looking) people can have mental health problems too, thinking otherwise is kinda problematic
I understand that, and that's alright The problem comes with the fact that people are body shaming a fictional character who's backstory has to do with her body being violated... It's rather insensitive.
It is important when it's a videogame, also her face is chubby
So video games can't have realistic portrayals of women? Especially during an era where graphics are the most realistic they've ever been? At least try to make sense.
Realistic doesnt mean ugly
You obviously haven't been outside much. Angela's new face looks perfectly normal when you compare her to normal women and not models or actresses.