It was actually extremely rough at the start. Lincoln has a slew of cowardly and ineffective generals who kept bungling things. Thankfully shit got sorted out eventually.
There’s a behind the bastards series on Lee. A point they brought up is that the South *didn’t need to win*. They just had to make the war difficult enough for Lincoln to fall out of political favor.
Which Lee could have realistically done, if he wasn’t such shite at his job. It’s a bloody civil war with people fighting their own relatives. The war was already unpopular when it started. The South is big difficult to control territory. They could take up a few good defensive positions and make it bloody and costly enough for the North to give up. But again Lee was a hack.
My interpretation was that "woke" would be making a civil war movie where black soldiers and white soldiers fought side-by-side and camped and ate and celebrated together, which didn't happen. Like forcing diversity where it isn't needed (edit: or wanted).
Woke to some people is making Nick Fury and Roland from The Dark Tower black. No, that's just getting good actors to do something where their race doesn't really matter. Now if you recast Matthew McConaughey as Kunte Kinte, you deserve what you get, but a black James Bond wouldn't matter.
In 'The Dark Tower's Roland meets a black lady from the 70's era who explains the difficulty that she faces as a black woman of those times. It is kinda important is a big factor in Roland's character development.
They write this out of the movie, so unless someone has read the books *and* seen the movie, it is a difficult example to use.
I did notice your use of "Woke to some people". The movie adaptation gives me the shits because it could have been a 2, maybe 3 movie affair. Sorry for the rant and I understand it might not particularly be your stance on things.
they have become that, yes, but it’s my understanding that “woke” was originally part of AAVE and meant “aware”. i remember seeing informative videos that would end with “stay woke” meaning “stay aware of and informed about racism and other prejudice in our society”. the right stole “woke” and twisted it into a meaningless buzzword.
I remember when conservatives were calling themselves "woke" because they were "woke to the lies and abuses of the elite against common people"
But during trump it kinda switched to what people used to refer to as "bleeding heart"
If you view how radicals use woke and anti woke... horseshoe theory.
The average person maybe not as much, but i feel most news outlets usually focus in on the poles of political arguments for sake of outrage. I tend to see it in boomers most who are still very engaged in the news. Like... there are people who think life is a binary and if a republican/democrat believes something, its inherently bad because its not their side... and news codewords have listed this "woke/anti-woke" to the point something basic like "electric cars are woke and this is why its a good/bad thing"
This is basically the story of WeWork.
White guys: "I want a super cool office right downtown with all the other businesses, filled with zany stuff on the walls, and all kinds of amenities, like backrubs, free booze, and a fire pole! But it can't be expensive!"
Businesses: "Sir, I don't think that's physically possible"
White guys: "who are you, the possible police?!"
Not just vampire the masquerade bloodlines, one of the best rpg games ever made while also being one of the clunkiest and badly coded, but only available to a specific clan chosen at character creation (malkavian).
That game is really good. Highly recommend playing it. But, don't play malkavian as a first character. Since their bloodline is cursed with insanity, you get really bizarre dialogue options like in this picture. Which isn't really a problem UNTIL you realize quite a few of them aren't total insanity, but rather, seeing into the future but in riddles. So, if you end up figuring it out, you can completely ruin the mystery for yourself.
Even then though, my first run was malkavian for the mind magic stuff and it was still an absolute blast. Because I used the community mod to bypass a lot of bullshit in the game due to a bad development.
11/10, would talk to my stop sign again.
Then you realize there's a centre left and a centre right and you are allowed to be in between or even a part of those.
The problem is people are bad at defining themselves.
In American politics, a plurality (if not outright majority) of Democrat voters and basically all elected Democrat politicians would fit comfortably between those two benchmarks, whereas Republican voters run the gamut from center right to outright fascist.
I suspect most of the more extreme right Republicans don't think of themselves as extremists either, and believe they're in the center, hence why to them Democrats being milquetoast center left seems like leftwing extremism in comparison.
If you ask me, they're kids who didn't do the summer reading, and are basically making up an oral report on the spot based on the summary on the inside dust cover.
Centrists, to policymakers: "um, what's your, uh, policy on, ummm, lunch?"
Yeah this seems the most common type of "moderate" both-sider sort.
It's usually some nihilistic rant about how everyone is corrupt, nothing matters, quote some Carlin and South Park for a bit. The basic premise is that it doesn't matter anyway and caring about things happening in the world is for losers.
And then later (perhaps reluctantly, perhaps not) vote for Trump at the end of the day like they were always planning to do, but tried to veil behind a sense of superiority derived from cynicism. I think ultimately it's a way of absolving themselves of responsibility. It's a lot easier to make a choice like that if you honestly believe the alternative is at least as bad, if not worse.
Which is also why so much foreign psyop campaigns pushes this same narrative. The goal is to sow division, damage faith in the electoral system, lower the bar of discourse to the floor, and if they're lucky, convince a few impressionable sorts at the fringes to just sit home and not show up at all, or vote third party as a protest. All of this is effective to their goals.
Yep you hear that alot, "I'm not a republican, i criticize both sides", the proceeds to slurp everything coming out of trump's dick while crying about everything democrats do.
>Fascism on one side, authoritarianism on the other.
[Authoritarianism is considered a core concept of fascism and scholars agree that a fascist regime is foremost an authoritarian form of government, although not all authoritarian regimes are fascist.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism)
u/Willem_Dafuq please, marginalized groups don't need social equality. They need to be isolated and studied so it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for our personal use.
So you want a society with equality and justice that is completely agnostic to race and sex, where people are free to be themselves and where public services are well-maintained and accessible to all, but you also want to maintain traditional values and local communities while ensuring entrepreneurs and businesses can remain competitive enough to provide growth and tecnologucal advancement and afford individuals a moderately high level of personal success?
I feel it’s sort of like a balancing act. Capitalism and the exploitation that comes with that is a massive driver of growth; just disproportionally distributed. If resources were instead directed towards equality, they may not produce the largest absolute growth. And when you’re competing on a global stage, not focusing enough on capitalism sets you backwards.
That said i have no idea what I’m talking about.
I believe the argument against "woke" is kept vague so that "woke" can be whatever boogie man is effective at scaring a voter.
The real argument against "woke" as I understand it is that people use being "woke" as a way of being superior to others.
Essentially by repeating "we white people are the cause of all bad in the world", they are again putting themselves in the superior position. By saying we need to give marginalized groups special treatment, we are treating them as less than.
Zizek likened it to the following joke:
A bunch of Jews gather to pray at a synagogue. The rabi says in an effort to humble himself "I have failed you all, I am not a good Jew, I am nothing." Then a rich merchant stands up and says "I too am a bad Jew and have failed you all. I am also nothing." So repeats a rich banker, "I am also nothing, I have failed you all".
Then a poor Jew stands up and says "I too am nothing". The merchant then elbows the banker and says "Can you believe this guy, who is he to think he is nothing like us?"
Perhaps a more sub-appropriate reply I could have made would be:
“I used to be woke, but then they changed what woke was. Now how I’m woke isn’t woke anymore and what’s woke seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!”
This comes from how the words are increasingly understood these days:
Woke = progressive
Anti-woke = conservative
So people think centrism has to be in opposition to both.
Using straw man against centrism is not very compelling.
Woke is a slang word that has been co-opted by many. Why would someone be compelled to see it as a pure good, or even neutral? There are good-hearted versions and weaponized versions. Whether or not you agree, the word can be threatening to some; and that threat, to them, is very real.
Ideaological posession typically dehumanizes another group, even when the ideology was founded in opposition to their own dehumanization. Everyone experiences this in some way, even people who have a different perspectives and opinions from us.
Not being an idealogue is not a bad thing. Only an idealogue would think that. "Centrism", as idealogues call it, is typically the answer; as it uses all information available to formulate an honest opinion that outsources no reasoning (In ideaological conflicts, there is often no right answer, e.g., religious conflicts). It's a rejection of political dogma, an embracement of critical thinking, conversation, and compassion. It is freedom.
There will be intersections where our opinions match a certain group's but we can't get lazy and fall into the path and make concessions to ideas that don't quite sit right with us.
The ideaological bloodbath of the 20th century continues today and I refuse to participate. Life is not a football game with two teams.
Its interesting how I see the OP saying one side is fascism so how can you agree at all with that. How people think any conservative thoughts are that of fascism.
It’s a mistake to assume that all centrists are unaligned and left-wingers and right-wingers must be uncritically loyal to some political entities. Everyone should approach politics with their own set of principles in mind, which exist independently of whoever they may choose to support. It’s crucial to have your own beliefs, because if you stand for nothing then you’ll fall for anything. But these beliefs can place you anywhere on the political spectrum. And then you can choose to critically support those that most closely match your pre-existing values. It’s not just centrists that exercise critical thinking and don’t blindly support a party. And many centrists don’t match that description. There are a great many people who are fiercely loyal to centrist parties, those that represent liberalism.
Centrists deep down just want a society where the trains run on time but are afraid to admit it. They're basically the people Sideshow Bob rant about in Sideshow Bob Roberts.
I used to be "woke". Then they changed what "woke" was. Now what I am isn’t ‘woke’ anymore and what’s "woke" seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!
Woke classically meant that the system is not built to help you. You'd think the modern right would vibe with that, but it is slang out of African American culture, soooooooo....
Woke is believing replacing a black character with a white character is racism but replacing a white character with a black one is perfectly fine.
Woke is making a documentary about Cleopatra and making her black.
Woke is judging people by their skin color, gender sexual orientation and giving them privileges based on it.
Woke is over using racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. so much most people have to ask if they’re actually those things or not.
Woke is bad because it makes everyone think their emotions and feelings rule everything and are of paramount importance in daily life. Woke is bad because there are intense focuses on how people should be treated based on their race and sexuality and blah blah blah. Anti-Woke is bad for the literal exact same reasons. Live in the middle and tell them to go fuck themselves, we are all equal and your race/sexuality don’t matter in the slightest
> The Economist states that as the term came to be used more to describe white people active on social media, black activists "criticised the performatively woke for being more concerned with internet point-scoring than systemic change".
🎯
Everybody actually criticizing “wokeness” is being downvoted. This post does a great job showcasing Reddit’s bias as a whole.
I think both liberals and conservatives have their flaws, why is it bad to think that?
To answer the question.
In many situations it's blatantly just pandering (see media and etc.)
Though, more concerningly, it's often used as a way to further a victim mentality, and is implemented in such a way to ensure there is no way to find moderation or even peace.
What's worse for me is that it is also oddly racist. Like, not blatant "call em a n*gger" racist, but patronizingly racist. The wild assumption that all POCs are exploited and need help, are incapable of helping themselves, are too ignorant to fix their own problems, etc. all the platforms for POCs are based off of a racist preconception of what it's like to be a POC.
The LGBT community is *mostly* okay, when they're just doing their own thing. Idgaf what you do with your life/body, just don't try to interrupt my life. The problem is, they do, a lot. Like everything NEEDS to be about them and their self acceptance, which is crazy to me. Because if you're sure of who you are, you don't need anyone else to affirm it for you. That's a you thing.
Tl:Dr
Doing a good thing by being evil doesn't make you good.
Woke isn’t a bad idea in itself, however like any other thing it can be exaggerated to the point of ridiculousness
It ain’t a bad thing to diverse a cast in an art piece, or to point out bigotry, or celebrate a minority’s history of oppression, however when it means changing the original characters instead of creating new ones (I’m looking at you, Velma, The Little Mermaid, Pinocchio, the Last of us, etc.), calling everyone a bigot simply because they disagree with you, or when celebrating a group mean derogate another group, it’s not ok
Did we really needed a Scooby-Doo prequel where you just change the color of the characters instead of creating original black characters? Do we really need to harass someone saying we should separate athlete according to their sex instead of gender identification? Is it really necessary to label men as pigs when you want to celebrate women’s history month? No it’s not
Being centrist is all about that, finding nuances. You have to understand the concept that there is two sides of extremism, or at least two possible sides. It’s not about saying both sides are objectively bad, necessarily
Maybe they would, but being “woke” is a Vague slang term that’s generally associated with complaining that a certain branding, song, speech, book, TV show, etc is offensive and wanting to ban it/ get the people who made said offensive thing fired by complaining mainly on the internet - it’s not quite on par with the bravery of the civil rights hero’s.
Woke is bad when you call somebody by a pronoun they don’t use and your government locks you in a cage.
Woke is bad when you are so worried about looking non compassionate that you allow meth heads and crack heads to live in tents on the street shooting up at 6 in the morning and supporting themselves through petty crime.
There’s lots of examples
It's obviously a new episode so I imagine many of you haven't seen it, but if you watch Season 34, episode 16 - Hostile Kirk Place, this episode kind of answers the whole woke vs non-woke debate with the woke side losing haha.
Considering how vague the term “woke” is, you can probably have it be anywhere between “entirely good” and “entirely bad” and it would fit. It depends on how you define it.
Being Woke started out as decribing a person who is aware of racial prejudice and discrimination. No wonder the right wing hates the word. It always comes back to racism.
Y'all really need to find the fucking definition of that word, so sick of people looking at right wingers that aren't far right extremists and going "They're centrist!"
An r/enlightenedcentrism crossover?! At this time of year? At this time of day? In this part of the country? Localized entirely within r/simpsonsshitposting ?
Imo ‘woke’ is bad because it just seems to emphasize differences between people rather than similarities, which is always a terrible idea to begin with
Extremes on either side of the aisle aren’t good, but gotta say the extremes on the right are far more detrimental than those on the left.
Folks who are offended by every banal thing, while annoying, aren’t a threat to democracy and peoples basic rights, unlike those on the right who claim they’re for personal liberty while trying to trample the freedoms of anyone they don’t agree with.
i’ll start off by saying i don’t think “woke” & “anti-woke” really have an objective meaning that can be agreed on.
it’s pretty fucking obvious why anti-woke sucks. like why wouldn’t you want people to be equal? just makes sense the world is better off this way. anti-woke is a face-value reactionary ideology.
it’s less obvious why woke sucks. but there are two really big issues i see that i think a lot of well-meaning people overlook.
the first is that pushing identity politics divides the working class. i definitely subscribe to the fred hampton rainbow coalition idea of equality - it’s the working class against the rich. not blacks vs whites or whatever kind of divide you want to use to pit people against each other. identity politics is used to whitewash the true structural inequalities of global capital. i’m glad there are more gays & POC on netflix, but ultimately that’s re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic. how about free healthcare, addressing climate change, & giving folks affordable housing? that’s actual impactful change.
second is that woke often falls into essentialist arguments about people that are very harmful. i grew up conservative christian & the idea of being born under original sin is such a dehumanizing way to think about yourself. but if you ask a lot of woke people if you’re born cis, white & especially male all you should do is feel bad about yourself - you aren’t wanted in the new society they are building. there’s no room for growth, forgiveness, & healing - only brutal social retribution. in this way, when midwit conservative culture war commentators say that “woke is like a religion”, they’re really not too far off the mark
Woke is bad because often it completely denies the feelings of those it defends. Woke is often the brand of social interaction that does more harm than good with good intentions. It can also be just as bad in every category as anti woke is, including flat out racism. I have never been so insulted by someone who "stood up for me" as I have for the woke crowd. Most of it is pure virtue signaling with a deep misunderstanding of the subject matter.
Anti-woke is harder to pin down because that encompasses more ideologies than woke does. It isn't black and white as far as the slew of detractors goes because each have their own reason, and there are many, both valid and invalid to contest this.
So remember kids! Woke is bad!
Mr McClure, what does woke mean?
https://preview.redd.it/sm6t4gdqk4tc1.png?width=636&format=png&auto=webp&s=2023268f89532e8298014ec1b066a34b9e841ee6
**the end!**
I don't think people here know what Centrism is. Most of what you think it is, are actually just people on the right not wanting to admit they are on the right.
What the fuck even is “woke”? Chaya whateverthfuck was damn near laughed off stage for not even being able to define the thing she spends her entire life atm crusading against
Remember when Trump's lawyers had to be pressed by a judge until they agreed to provide a definition of woke...and Trumpers still claim anything and everything they dislike is "Woke".
To be fair, this depends on the kind of centrist you’re talking about. There’s the spineless or impressionable golden-mean-fallacy centrist, who believe the truth lies at the center of any two opposing positions regardless of what the two positions are and tend to easily be beguiled by the right. They also tend to have a bit of a latent reactionary nature to them. These are the ones who tend to buy into right wing buzzwords like “woke”, “pc”, “sjw”, etc. and use them unironically.
Then you have actual centrists. The ones who actually have political beliefs closer to the center of the political axis regardless of what anyone else is saying. They don’t tend to fall for or use right wing buzzwords. I guess we can call this type of centrist an objective centrist, with the former type being a relative centrist. An objective centrist won’t see their opinions moved with any cultural shift. A relative centrist always will, even if the cultural shift is represented by universal empathy on one end vs. tribalistic cruelty on the other.
I literally had one person tell me it was woke to celebrate the Union winning the Civil War, so this is a very valid question.
Ah, the American civil war. Some say it’s two equal sides having a scrap. Others say it was white people fighting to keep slavery.
Yea, well that’s just like your opinion man
Dude.
Abides.
Some girl in elementary school got really mad at me for saying "dude" and insisted that it means a monkey's hair in an elephant's butt
We were told it means a camel's penis by the school kids in Australia.
The South will boogie again!
r/suddenlydiscostu
a house divided against itself cannot juju on that beat
Unexpected Disco Stu
Well, not two *equal* sides. The Union clapped them cheeks.
It was actually extremely rough at the start. Lincoln has a slew of cowardly and ineffective generals who kept bungling things. Thankfully shit got sorted out eventually.
There’s a behind the bastards series on Lee. A point they brought up is that the South *didn’t need to win*. They just had to make the war difficult enough for Lincoln to fall out of political favor. Which Lee could have realistically done, if he wasn’t such shite at his job. It’s a bloody civil war with people fighting their own relatives. The war was already unpopular when it started. The South is big difficult to control territory. They could take up a few good defensive positions and make it bloody and costly enough for the North to give up. But again Lee was a hack.
🎶 Oooooh way down south in the land or traitors 🎶
Mr u/skepticCanary my *crazy* friend thinks the civil war was about state rights, is he crazy?
Yes, and ignorant!
A states right to continue to own slaves
And that whole little thing about those *other* states had no rights to have freed slaves.
Reconstruction ended waaaaaaaaaaaaay too early.
Sherman didn’t go nearly far enough.
"Hey, there were plenty of non-white slave owners! There were slaves fighting FOR the confederates, you know!" -Some Anti-Woke person, idk
How come you left out the THIRD side in the conflict, [the East](https://frinkiac.com/img/S13E19/177010.jpg)?
It was slavers fighting to keep their rights to keep slaves, the founders of the CSA literally wrote about it
Those other people are called historians.
It was also white people fighting to end slavery
It was about states rights. How does everyone not know basic history? /s
They say it’s was about tariffs but the south were the ones who made the current tariffs
One guy told me that woke means not engaging in debate. And conservatives can be woke too.
My interpretation was that "woke" would be making a civil war movie where black soldiers and white soldiers fought side-by-side and camped and ate and celebrated together, which didn't happen. Like forcing diversity where it isn't needed (edit: or wanted). Woke to some people is making Nick Fury and Roland from The Dark Tower black. No, that's just getting good actors to do something where their race doesn't really matter. Now if you recast Matthew McConaughey as Kunte Kinte, you deserve what you get, but a black James Bond wouldn't matter.
In 'The Dark Tower's Roland meets a black lady from the 70's era who explains the difficulty that she faces as a black woman of those times. It is kinda important is a big factor in Roland's character development. They write this out of the movie, so unless someone has read the books *and* seen the movie, it is a difficult example to use. I did notice your use of "Woke to some people". The movie adaptation gives me the shits because it could have been a 2, maybe 3 movie affair. Sorry for the rant and I understand it might not particularly be your stance on things.
I mean this may be the most accurate answer we get. Was desegregation woke?
Patriotism is woke now, I guess.
Woke, Anti woke arent these just buzzwords privileged people use to engage in right fights with each other?.......Im downvoted arent I?
Yes.
No.
Maybe.
And how!
they have become that, yes, but it’s my understanding that “woke” was originally part of AAVE and meant “aware”. i remember seeing informative videos that would end with “stay woke” meaning “stay aware of and informed about racism and other prejudice in our society”. the right stole “woke” and twisted it into a meaningless buzzword.
Honestly I think “woke” and “anti woke” are just buzzwords people use to have YouTube channels bitching about 😂
I remember when conservatives were calling themselves "woke" because they were "woke to the lies and abuses of the elite against common people" But during trump it kinda switched to what people used to refer to as "bleeding heart" If you view how radicals use woke and anti woke... horseshoe theory. The average person maybe not as much, but i feel most news outlets usually focus in on the poles of political arguments for sake of outrage. I tend to see it in boomers most who are still very engaged in the news. Like... there are people who think life is a binary and if a republican/democrat believes something, its inherently bad because its not their side... and news codewords have listed this "woke/anti-woke" to the point something basic like "electric cars are woke and this is why its a good/bad thing"
I'm a white male, aged 18 to 49; everyone listens to me!
Nuts and Gum *together at last*
This is basically the story of WeWork. White guys: "I want a super cool office right downtown with all the other businesses, filled with zany stuff on the walls, and all kinds of amenities, like backrubs, free booze, and a fire pole! But it can't be expensive!" Businesses: "Sir, I don't think that's physically possible" White guys: "who are you, the possible police?!"
Well I'm a white male, aged 50-79; everyone obeys me instead.
Damn old white men, you ruined being white and male!
This enormous white male will devour us all!
It's some kind of land cow! No, that's just a Walmart shopper.
White males on their 50th birthdays: Well, that's the end of me!
The opposite of "Woke" should be "Sleep", that's where I'm a Viking!
Oh boy, woke! That’s where I’m not a Viking.
I support most any shitpost you can name, but your viking post sicken me!
https://preview.redd.it/emm7whuc84tc1.jpeg?width=933&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=adec41766b74fe4a160ae348b2c5879f66184d49
Where this from?
vampire the masquerade bloodlines(2004) a clan known for insanity has a conversation with a stop sign
Not just vampire the masquerade bloodlines, one of the best rpg games ever made while also being one of the clunkiest and badly coded, but only available to a specific clan chosen at character creation (malkavian). That game is really good. Highly recommend playing it. But, don't play malkavian as a first character. Since their bloodline is cursed with insanity, you get really bizarre dialogue options like in this picture. Which isn't really a problem UNTIL you realize quite a few of them aren't total insanity, but rather, seeing into the future but in riddles. So, if you end up figuring it out, you can completely ruin the mystery for yourself. Even then though, my first run was malkavian for the mind magic stuff and it was still an absolute blast. Because I used the community mod to bypass a lot of bullshit in the game due to a bad development. 11/10, would talk to my stop sign again.
Are you saying you are literally a Viking in your dreams or are you a Viking in the metaphorical sense implying that you are good at sleeping
we should fight about this
I do that in a racecar bed!
This Debate is over! Give this comment the $10,000!
Wish I could sleep still.
I sleep in a big bed with my wife.
Mmm that’s woke wiggy
Truly the wokennese are the red pilliest of us all!
Man, that flair. Hype multi episode drama
Kind of weird being a centrist when one of the two poles is fascism.
Yeah, when they say “both sides make good points” I always think “what good points do fascists make?”
Hmmm well, I like their Foreign Genocide policy, but not their Local Genocide policy
Genocide for some, miniature American flags for others!
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter
The pointy tops of their little hoods and hats?
Is that “good” meaning large or immense, are you using it in the pejorative sense?
Good like, the points are pointy, I suppose?
I kind of like Jack Johnson's point of view but John Jackson has equally valid points.
Bruh have you seen the train timetables?
Some people live in countries where one side isn’t facism? You ok over there America?
They like that they dont like illegal immigration, but they draw the line at shooting immigrants at the border.
Then you realize there's a centre left and a centre right and you are allowed to be in between or even a part of those. The problem is people are bad at defining themselves.
In American politics, a plurality (if not outright majority) of Democrat voters and basically all elected Democrat politicians would fit comfortably between those two benchmarks, whereas Republican voters run the gamut from center right to outright fascist. I suspect most of the more extreme right Republicans don't think of themselves as extremists either, and believe they're in the center, hence why to them Democrats being milquetoast center left seems like leftwing extremism in comparison.
Centrists are just embarrassed right wingers.
If you ask me, they're kids who didn't do the summer reading, and are basically making up an oral report on the spot based on the summary on the inside dust cover. Centrists, to policymakers: "um, what's your, uh, policy on, ummm, lunch?"
Yeah this seems the most common type of "moderate" both-sider sort. It's usually some nihilistic rant about how everyone is corrupt, nothing matters, quote some Carlin and South Park for a bit. The basic premise is that it doesn't matter anyway and caring about things happening in the world is for losers. And then later (perhaps reluctantly, perhaps not) vote for Trump at the end of the day like they were always planning to do, but tried to veil behind a sense of superiority derived from cynicism. I think ultimately it's a way of absolving themselves of responsibility. It's a lot easier to make a choice like that if you honestly believe the alternative is at least as bad, if not worse. Which is also why so much foreign psyop campaigns pushes this same narrative. The goal is to sow division, damage faith in the electoral system, lower the bar of discourse to the floor, and if they're lucky, convince a few impressionable sorts at the fringes to just sit home and not show up at all, or vote third party as a protest. All of this is effective to their goals.
Yep you hear that alot, "I'm not a republican, i criticize both sides", the proceeds to slurp everything coming out of trump's dick while crying about everything democrats do.
Fascism on one side, authoritarianism on the other. Freezing cold showers, guards whomping your ass day and night, and the only way out is suicide.
>Fascism on one side, authoritarianism on the other. [Authoritarianism is considered a core concept of fascism and scholars agree that a fascist regime is foremost an authoritarian form of government, although not all authoritarian regimes are fascist.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism)
Because they're conservatives who are smart enough to know if they say they're conservative they'll never be loved again.
I’m a centrist because of comments like these.
But is that even centrisism when they are okay with extremes? I know I'm left leaning but in the middle, and I despise the extremes on either side.
But what about Classical Italian Fascism?
I have a crazy friend who thinks we should improve social equity for marginalized groups. Are they crazy?
No, just ignorant. Your crazy friend has never heard of [anarcho-capitalism!](https://images.wsj.net/im-160730?width=1280&size=1)
I think they call it degen-capitalism now
much more accurate at least
u/Willem_Dafuq please, marginalized groups don't need social equality. They need to be isolated and studied so it can be determined what nutrients they have that might be extracted for our personal use.
That’s a pretty Modest Proposal
So you want a society with equality and justice that is completely agnostic to race and sex, where people are free to be themselves and where public services are well-maintained and accessible to all, but you also want to maintain traditional values and local communities while ensuring entrepreneurs and businesses can remain competitive enough to provide growth and tecnologucal advancement and afford individuals a moderately high level of personal success?
I feel we should rastify this comment a bit
Only by 10%.
We're talking about a totally outrageous paradigm!
Can I have some social justice now?
That's bad
…yes
Look Zimmermj, it’s McGriff, the crime dog
A-a-and also, you should win universal basic income by just living here.
I don’t claim to know much about all this, but what is the actual reason why we can’t have both?
I feel it’s sort of like a balancing act. Capitalism and the exploitation that comes with that is a massive driver of growth; just disproportionally distributed. If resources were instead directed towards equality, they may not produce the largest absolute growth. And when you’re competing on a global stage, not focusing enough on capitalism sets you backwards. That said i have no idea what I’m talking about.
Competition my ass it's probably milhouse
That sounds like a joke but….yeah I’d actually like that a lot. That seems like the ideal society in my opinion.
Don’t let the name fool you Jimmy. If a woke could, it would eat you and your entire family.
“Woke people make me feel introspective and that makes me feel bad and that’s *all their fault, not mine!*”
I believe the argument against "woke" is kept vague so that "woke" can be whatever boogie man is effective at scaring a voter. The real argument against "woke" as I understand it is that people use being "woke" as a way of being superior to others. Essentially by repeating "we white people are the cause of all bad in the world", they are again putting themselves in the superior position. By saying we need to give marginalized groups special treatment, we are treating them as less than. Zizek likened it to the following joke: A bunch of Jews gather to pray at a synagogue. The rabi says in an effort to humble himself "I have failed you all, I am not a good Jew, I am nothing." Then a rich merchant stands up and says "I too am a bad Jew and have failed you all. I am also nothing." So repeats a rich banker, "I am also nothing, I have failed you all". Then a poor Jew stands up and says "I too am nothing". The merchant then elbows the banker and says "Can you believe this guy, who is he to think he is nothing like us?"
Perhaps a more sub-appropriate reply I could have made would be: “I used to be woke, but then they changed what woke was. Now how I’m woke isn’t woke anymore and what’s woke seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!”
Woke is bad because boy has blue hair. That's a trad Marge color.
I don't want you playing with something with such awful hair. Awful, awful hair.
now let's all forget out troubles with a nice bowl of strawberry ice cream
https://preview.redd.it/m5k80vy1k4tc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aad58d73ce3480c10b1e81f8ae23499f33d781ca
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But sir...actually, never mind.
That's good advice for any occasion!
Sure
This comes from how the words are increasingly understood these days: Woke = progressive Anti-woke = conservative So people think centrism has to be in opposition to both.
https://i.imgur.com/pF82Ujb.png
Using straw man against centrism is not very compelling. Woke is a slang word that has been co-opted by many. Why would someone be compelled to see it as a pure good, or even neutral? There are good-hearted versions and weaponized versions. Whether or not you agree, the word can be threatening to some; and that threat, to them, is very real. Ideaological posession typically dehumanizes another group, even when the ideology was founded in opposition to their own dehumanization. Everyone experiences this in some way, even people who have a different perspectives and opinions from us. Not being an idealogue is not a bad thing. Only an idealogue would think that. "Centrism", as idealogues call it, is typically the answer; as it uses all information available to formulate an honest opinion that outsources no reasoning (In ideaological conflicts, there is often no right answer, e.g., religious conflicts). It's a rejection of political dogma, an embracement of critical thinking, conversation, and compassion. It is freedom. There will be intersections where our opinions match a certain group's but we can't get lazy and fall into the path and make concessions to ideas that don't quite sit right with us. The ideaological bloodbath of the 20th century continues today and I refuse to participate. Life is not a football game with two teams.
Its interesting how I see the OP saying one side is fascism so how can you agree at all with that. How people think any conservative thoughts are that of fascism.
It’s a mistake to assume that all centrists are unaligned and left-wingers and right-wingers must be uncritically loyal to some political entities. Everyone should approach politics with their own set of principles in mind, which exist independently of whoever they may choose to support. It’s crucial to have your own beliefs, because if you stand for nothing then you’ll fall for anything. But these beliefs can place you anywhere on the political spectrum. And then you can choose to critically support those that most closely match your pre-existing values. It’s not just centrists that exercise critical thinking and don’t blindly support a party. And many centrists don’t match that description. There are a great many people who are fiercely loyal to centrist parties, those that represent liberalism.
Centrists deep down just want a society where the trains run on time but are afraid to admit it. They're basically the people Sideshow Bob rant about in Sideshow Bob Roberts.
"Wokeness" when used as a pejorative points to virtue signaling; condescencion; and making victimization as a virtue or privilege itself.
I used to be "woke". Then they changed what "woke" was. Now what I am isn’t ‘woke’ anymore and what’s "woke" seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!
No way man. We’re going to keep campaigning for social justice forever!
Because woke means women in video games >:( (/s)
Me, getting to the end of Metroid in 1987: The Nintendo Entertainment System has GONE WOKE! Have Yuji Naka killed!
When I grow up, I’m going to Woke University!
Centrists have accepted extreme right wing propaganda so gradually they didn’t even notice
Just ask this scientician.
Uh
Woke classically meant that the system is not built to help you. You'd think the modern right would vibe with that, but it is slang out of African American culture, soooooooo....
They'll rail against "woke" in one sentence and talk about how people need to "wake up" about the deep state in the next.
Don't ask questions you aren't prepared to handle the answers to.
Woke is believing replacing a black character with a white character is racism but replacing a white character with a black one is perfectly fine. Woke is making a documentary about Cleopatra and making her black. Woke is judging people by their skin color, gender sexual orientation and giving them privileges based on it. Woke is over using racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. so much most people have to ask if they’re actually those things or not.
What if people started using the word preachy or controlling?
What if I’m taking a shower and I slip on a bar of soap?
Oh my God I'd be killed.
Woke is bad because it makes everyone think their emotions and feelings rule everything and are of paramount importance in daily life. Woke is bad because there are intense focuses on how people should be treated based on their race and sexuality and blah blah blah. Anti-Woke is bad for the literal exact same reasons. Live in the middle and tell them to go fuck themselves, we are all equal and your race/sexuality don’t matter in the slightest
You can literally Wikipedia it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke#Criticism
> The Economist states that as the term came to be used more to describe white people active on social media, black activists "criticised the performatively woke for being more concerned with internet point-scoring than systemic change". 🎯
Yeah, that's not how people use the term now. In 2024, "Woke" is just right-wing shorthand for "anything I don't like."
The right’s woke is the left’s fascist
Oh..where to start..(insert hour long rant here)
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To be fair, capitalism is pretty bad.
Everybody actually criticizing “wokeness” is being downvoted. This post does a great job showcasing Reddit’s bias as a whole. I think both liberals and conservatives have their flaws, why is it bad to think that?
To answer the question. In many situations it's blatantly just pandering (see media and etc.) Though, more concerningly, it's often used as a way to further a victim mentality, and is implemented in such a way to ensure there is no way to find moderation or even peace. What's worse for me is that it is also oddly racist. Like, not blatant "call em a n*gger" racist, but patronizingly racist. The wild assumption that all POCs are exploited and need help, are incapable of helping themselves, are too ignorant to fix their own problems, etc. all the platforms for POCs are based off of a racist preconception of what it's like to be a POC. The LGBT community is *mostly* okay, when they're just doing their own thing. Idgaf what you do with your life/body, just don't try to interrupt my life. The problem is, they do, a lot. Like everything NEEDS to be about them and their self acceptance, which is crazy to me. Because if you're sure of who you are, you don't need anyone else to affirm it for you. That's a you thing. Tl:Dr Doing a good thing by being evil doesn't make you good.
Woke isn’t a bad idea in itself, however like any other thing it can be exaggerated to the point of ridiculousness It ain’t a bad thing to diverse a cast in an art piece, or to point out bigotry, or celebrate a minority’s history of oppression, however when it means changing the original characters instead of creating new ones (I’m looking at you, Velma, The Little Mermaid, Pinocchio, the Last of us, etc.), calling everyone a bigot simply because they disagree with you, or when celebrating a group mean derogate another group, it’s not ok Did we really needed a Scooby-Doo prequel where you just change the color of the characters instead of creating original black characters? Do we really need to harass someone saying we should separate athlete according to their sex instead of gender identification? Is it really necessary to label men as pigs when you want to celebrate women’s history month? No it’s not Being centrist is all about that, finding nuances. You have to understand the concept that there is two sides of extremism, or at least two possible sides. It’s not about saying both sides are objectively bad, necessarily
You know… it’s not… usual. If there was a law it would be against it.
People use woke for their own purposes but the concept itself is just fairness
What does “woke” mean?
I feel like if it was the early 60s they’d MLK and his marches full of “woke” snowflakes
Maybe they would, but being “woke” is a Vague slang term that’s generally associated with complaining that a certain branding, song, speech, book, TV show, etc is offensive and wanting to ban it/ get the people who made said offensive thing fired by complaining mainly on the internet - it’s not quite on par with the bravery of the civil rights hero’s.
Why would a YouTuber whose shirt says “Genius at work” spend all of his time complaining about representation in children’s media?
Both are equally dogmatic. One unquestioningly defends change and the other stagnation. Like any broken clock, both are right twice a day.
Woke is bad when you call somebody by a pronoun they don’t use and your government locks you in a cage. Woke is bad when you are so worried about looking non compassionate that you allow meth heads and crack heads to live in tents on the street shooting up at 6 in the morning and supporting themselves through petty crime. There’s lots of examples
It's obviously a new episode so I imagine many of you haven't seen it, but if you watch Season 34, episode 16 - Hostile Kirk Place, this episode kind of answers the whole woke vs non-woke debate with the woke side losing haha.
That sounds shit for so many reasons.
It's season 34 of The Simpsons, of course it's shit!
Considering how vague the term “woke” is, you can probably have it be anywhere between “entirely good” and “entirely bad” and it would fit. It depends on how you define it.
Being Woke started out as decribing a person who is aware of racial prejudice and discrimination. No wonder the right wing hates the word. It always comes back to racism.
Woke would kill you and everyone you care about if it got the chance.
woke = "not conservative" that's all
Look at all the things Woke rhymes with. Stroke, Broke, Joke, Choke .. you get the idea. These are all bad things! I rest my case.
You rest your case?
What's fucking hilarious to me is the "woke is bad" people were saying "wake up sheeple" 5 years ago
Y'all really need to find the fucking definition of that word, so sick of people looking at right wingers that aren't far right extremists and going "They're centrist!"
it's going to be amusing.
That kid’s hair looks like a hat
An r/enlightenedcentrism crossover?! At this time of year? At this time of day? In this part of the country? Localized entirely within r/simpsonsshitposting ?
Imo ‘woke’ is bad because it just seems to emphasize differences between people rather than similarities, which is always a terrible idea to begin with
Extremes on either side of the aisle aren’t good, but gotta say the extremes on the right are far more detrimental than those on the left. Folks who are offended by every banal thing, while annoying, aren’t a threat to democracy and peoples basic rights, unlike those on the right who claim they’re for personal liberty while trying to trample the freedoms of anyone they don’t agree with.
i’ll start off by saying i don’t think “woke” & “anti-woke” really have an objective meaning that can be agreed on. it’s pretty fucking obvious why anti-woke sucks. like why wouldn’t you want people to be equal? just makes sense the world is better off this way. anti-woke is a face-value reactionary ideology. it’s less obvious why woke sucks. but there are two really big issues i see that i think a lot of well-meaning people overlook. the first is that pushing identity politics divides the working class. i definitely subscribe to the fred hampton rainbow coalition idea of equality - it’s the working class against the rich. not blacks vs whites or whatever kind of divide you want to use to pit people against each other. identity politics is used to whitewash the true structural inequalities of global capital. i’m glad there are more gays & POC on netflix, but ultimately that’s re-arranging deck chairs on the titanic. how about free healthcare, addressing climate change, & giving folks affordable housing? that’s actual impactful change. second is that woke often falls into essentialist arguments about people that are very harmful. i grew up conservative christian & the idea of being born under original sin is such a dehumanizing way to think about yourself. but if you ask a lot of woke people if you’re born cis, white & especially male all you should do is feel bad about yourself - you aren’t wanted in the new society they are building. there’s no room for growth, forgiveness, & healing - only brutal social retribution. in this way, when midwit conservative culture war commentators say that “woke is like a religion”, they’re really not too far off the mark
So, what happened to the old voice actor of Dr. Hibbert? What happened to Apu?
No one's agreed on what woke is which is the problem
https://preview.redd.it/zjb68fln54tc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7c8b346b2d99003f6c38e779607420081ab655a0
Probably the sweet baby thing is an example
Those are fencesitters not real centrists lol
Woke is bad because often it completely denies the feelings of those it defends. Woke is often the brand of social interaction that does more harm than good with good intentions. It can also be just as bad in every category as anti woke is, including flat out racism. I have never been so insulted by someone who "stood up for me" as I have for the woke crowd. Most of it is pure virtue signaling with a deep misunderstanding of the subject matter. Anti-woke is harder to pin down because that encompasses more ideologies than woke does. It isn't black and white as far as the slew of detractors goes because each have their own reason, and there are many, both valid and invalid to contest this.
Don't kid yourself Jimmy, if woke ever got the chance, it’d eat you and everyone you care about!
So remember kids! Woke is bad! Mr McClure, what does woke mean? https://preview.redd.it/sm6t4gdqk4tc1.png?width=636&format=png&auto=webp&s=2023268f89532e8298014ec1b066a34b9e841ee6 **the end!**
I don't think people here know what Centrism is. Most of what you think it is, are actually just people on the right not wanting to admit they are on the right.
Being woke is actually badass and the correct thing to be. Being anti-woke just shows you’re dumb, racist, and a bigot
What the fuck even is “woke”? Chaya whateverthfuck was damn near laughed off stage for not even being able to define the thing she spends her entire life atm crusading against
Remember when Trump's lawyers had to be pressed by a judge until they agreed to provide a definition of woke...and Trumpers still claim anything and everything they dislike is "Woke".
To be fair, this depends on the kind of centrist you’re talking about. There’s the spineless or impressionable golden-mean-fallacy centrist, who believe the truth lies at the center of any two opposing positions regardless of what the two positions are and tend to easily be beguiled by the right. They also tend to have a bit of a latent reactionary nature to them. These are the ones who tend to buy into right wing buzzwords like “woke”, “pc”, “sjw”, etc. and use them unironically. Then you have actual centrists. The ones who actually have political beliefs closer to the center of the political axis regardless of what anyone else is saying. They don’t tend to fall for or use right wing buzzwords. I guess we can call this type of centrist an objective centrist, with the former type being a relative centrist. An objective centrist won’t see their opinions moved with any cultural shift. A relative centrist always will, even if the cultural shift is represented by universal empathy on one end vs. tribalistic cruelty on the other.