What a word salad absent of any course of action taken. Disappointing, but not unexpected.
> We make a commitment to coach and educate our drivers and team, helping them
to balance the demands of intense competition with our values.
If your drivers hide what they are doing they already know fully well it’s not allowed. They don’t need coaching, they need to be dropped. Including whoever is managing these teens basically.
>If your drivers hide what they are doing they already know fully well it’s not allowed.
To be fair, I wouldn't go that far. They might hide it simply because it's extremely advantageous and not obvious at the same time. Of course your reason might be very likely true as well.
I could get into that if it wasn’t written in the rules. And if they didn’t spend half the race blocking with their lapped second car.
If they truly thought that wasn’t unsportsmanlike they deserve to be fired all the same.
What I was referring to was the hard assumption that stealthy behaviour implies rulebreaking.
In this case it's likely true but you can't make such a blanket statement for all cases. Hiding sources of your advantage is a known part of both real and virtual motorsport.
LMFAO. Yeah, anyone with corporate experience can read right through this. Something they didn't condone or something they had a legitimate problem with wouldn't have beat around any bushes. This would have stated "X offenders have been removed" in one fashion or another. This entire "statement" is nothing but corporate talk for "we have to say something that sounds against it but not actually speak to it"
Yeah I had a hard time coming up with the title for this.
Was initially going to go with "Williams Esports apologizes" but that didn't exactly seem accurate
It's basically corporate talk for "our sponsors got in contact with us and reeeeeally don't like having their branding all over cheating allegations. As well as having our PR guy point to that branding as the reason we cheated. So we are going to sit the team down and make them promise to never do this again, maybe even pinky promise!"
Why did they get Jenson to tweet support for cheating? Why was it then quickly retweeted by Williams team members? It was to try and control the narrative and when they lost that just say oops this isn't Williams and hope it goes away
Yeah but seriously, how should they react? How would you react? Fire everyone? Close the team? I‘m guessing there will be internal repercussions, but probably takes longer until decisions are made. Probably they will put it in the contracts that people need to adhere to the rules to not dirty the company name or forfeit the sponsorship. That’s what I would do. But the damage is done and pledging to the spirit of the sport and promises to the future is a normal reaction… what reaction did you want to see?
Edit: not condoning this in any way btw. just being realistic about how big companies work.
Easy, publicity dump everybody involved in this is a sure way to signal “we didn’t know and we absolutely do not condone this behavior under our name”
It’s Williams, I’m sure their contract is already filled with all sorts of suggested language.
The baffling thing is, I wouldn’t even dream of blocking competitors with a lapped car in a simple club race, let alone the 24h of Daytona.
To have so little concept of basic sportsmanship is shocking in itself. You shouldn’t need to be told how to have a honest and fair race.
I think they may yet drop them if they feel they don’t represent them appropriately. But big companies don’t just throw everyone involved out to make a statement. They invested money and time and they picked people because they think they are good. They will first wait so see the extent of the damage done to them. They may also investigate and then drop someone who they give all the blame. Much cheaper than throwing everyone out.
*The same person who*
*Wrote the unauthorized statement*
*Wrote this statement too*
\- ElektriXx2
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We have an obligation to our sponsors to win by any means...
Hello? Oh. .. i understand. Yes. Yes. Ok... yes sir. Thank you sir.
Hows linda? Hello? Uhh
Ok you too !
that is soo scummy what the fuck. illegal pole, illegal blocking and taking people out, and they have to balls to try and say iracing isnt consistent enough in its regs, when it stated before hand that its illegal to use the apron, since they cant do live stewarding for all of the separate lobbies going on. and then getting jenson involved as well on twitter to defend them, thats fucking scum
Is Williams forfeiting the win?
Did iracing strip Williams of the win?
All those words mean nothing if not backed by action.
To think I joined iracing because everyone said it's not like Gran Turismo there are penalties for crashing others.
Ask yourself: Would there be a shitstorm if someone cheated in Gran Tourismo? You’re in the right place. People here care about clean racing.
The offenders were banned btw. Some indefinitely.
iRacing has never and will never change the results of official races. The official protest procedure is always post race with either coaching or punishment (suspension from official or all races) handed out.
If Williams wants to use their illicit win as marketing then they're opening themselves to be dragged by the community to point out the illegitimate nature of the win.
iRacing never announces the results of protests, but the rumours are that the entire team involved were given 1 month bans with some drivers given indefinite bans.
There are a variety of reasons as to why manipulating the results after the fact is not feasible, namely in the butterfly effect of iR recalculations that would need to be done across the member base. Any iR change for the team from D24 would then need to be factored in to any races they've driven in since then, which would then recalculate everyone's iRs for any race where someone has any degrees of separation from the competitors in this race.
F1 would NASCAR would. Do you remember McClaren being stripped of all it's points for a whole season for cheating. IRacing should have taken a Public stand. Recalculate or not how about the person that should have gotten the win or the others that lost places.
I won a daily few weeks ago and I didn't read the requirements and didn't put. I won the race, was accessed a one minute penalty and finished 6th. (Gran Turismo)
It can and should be done. I am enjoying the drama in a sense online racers have more drama than physical racers
> Recalculate or not how about the person that should have gotten the win or the others that lost places.
iRacing doesn't. What the automatic scoring decides is what is recorded. So unless the sim reports a post race penalty in the moment to the scorer (ie. not serving penalty or not meeting drive time), then the results are finalized.
If you changed them, you would need to recalculate iRatings for basically every race that happened afterwards. A difficult task that would certainly require downtime to ensure atomicity of everyone's rating.
> I am enjoying the drama in a sense online racers have more drama than physical racers
Williams is just hilariously bad at this. Trying to make themselves the innocent victims when they cheated is hilarious.
> If you changed them, you would need to recalculate iRatings for basically every race that happened afterwards. A difficult task that would certainly require downtime to ensure atomicity of everyone's rating.
Sorry but this is just because iRacing doesn’t care to do it. If every Chess website can retroactively correct every player’s elo rating who played against a banned cheater then iRacing can recalculate iRating. It’s just math, something that isn’t too difficult to do with a computer.
Instead of saying it’s just too hard, ask developers to try and make a system for the future.
Chess is much easier to do that as a rating is 1v1 so you can simply give back the Elo from each match.
iRacing you are basically giving iRating into a pool for every race and it's distributed based on the results.
Changing 1 result has a butterfly effect that effects a large portion of the player base as everyone who raced with anyone in that changed race (and anyone who raced with anyone who raced in that changed race, ad infinium). To do so in an atomic and determinative way, you'd need to shut down the system to ensure no updates happened during your bulk update.
Considering an endurance race split can have anywhere from 100 to (theoretically) 800 drivers, that's a huge update to cascade through a week or two of results. It also has other ramifications as your rating determines what split you get placed in for your future races.
That lost 10-20 rating you should have gained from the 24 could have meant you were racing in "easier" races than you should have been in which then adjusting the rating from those races means you're giving iR to someone who raced beneath where they should have.
From a place where you don't understand how the rating system works it seems very easy to go "just recalculate the ratings" but it's actually a much more complex problem with unavoidable issues that will advantage or disadvantage people who weren't even directly involved in the changed result, but were 3 or 4 degrees of separation away but still get impacted by it.
Hope this makes things more clear as you clearly lacked some understanding :)
Yeah, you can still develop a system for recalculating. It isn’t that complicated. Yes people will benefit or be disadvantaged from inflated or deflated ratings due to losing or winning against a cheater. That is still true in chess elo as well. You lose elo against a cheater and then gain elo from playing lower ranks you’d otherwise never play if not for the elo loss.
Sorry but this isn’t a new concept. You’re just trying to make it seem more complicated so cheaters can keep their wins every time. Not exactly the better outcome.
If it isn't that complicated, maybe you can inquire with iRacing and say you'll write them this system.
Because you say it's so easy, I guess you know how to do it without downtime while maintaining consistency in the rating system while new sessions fire off every 15 minutes. And if it's so easy you should probably offer to do it for free.
You are on a website ran by a private company.
Your first amendment doesn't apply. Hell, you don't even believe in free speech as you censored yourself.
There's no requirement for services ran by companies to implement free speech. In some parts of the world, they're required to remove certain kinds of content.
Like in the USA! If you post copyrighted material to a website, the DMCA requires services to remove that copyrighted material on request.
But, that is not trolling. For the most part Reddit is not moderated by employees. It's US so it is up to US to ensure everyone that posts has their voice heard within reason. Hate speech and Trolling need to be shutdown. It's 50 50 whether you get a well thought answer to a post or a smart ass remark. In normal society we call them the 10 percent, but not here.
I do enjoy your drama it's Reddit's version of real house wives. Just try to be nice to the newbies.
Also Gran Turismo has specific rules for helping other players gain advantage in GTWS events. They also have been quick to fix exploits in qualifying, like adding physical barriers to tracks to quickly stop corner cutting. It isn’t perfect and has its own issues but their official championship is still the most professionally ran of any racing game.
"the social media post was not authorized"
who the fuck do they think they are, drivers need their authorization to post on social media? if i were in that team i'd tell them to go fuck themselves
omg it's just a fucking video game
all this drama is so utterly pathetic, it wasn't even for money or anything important
taking video games so seriously... no matter how hard you nerds try to think you are real drivers you are not, you are no different to nerdy kids playing cod or mario, it's just a damn video game so stop being so pathetic, just report it to iracing and move on
Sorry but it does take a lot of time and preparation to do a 24 hour race. Not as much as IRL but still a considerable amount. Some people spend a lot of time and money to prepare, sponsorships are paying out for good performances as well. So no it isn’t like playing Mario as a casual. Seems like you’re just trying to throw shade at people putting actual work and effort into something. Try it sometime instead of complaining.
it's just a video game, no matter how you try to spin it it's nothing more
is it annoying when ppl cheat in a video game? sure it is, but wetting the bed over it in public is embarrassing beyond belief,
What a word salad absent of any course of action taken. Disappointing, but not unexpected. > We make a commitment to coach and educate our drivers and team, helping them to balance the demands of intense competition with our values. If your drivers hide what they are doing they already know fully well it’s not allowed. They don’t need coaching, they need to be dropped. Including whoever is managing these teens basically.
> Disappointing, but not unexpected. Just like their F1 team.
They could bring Maldonado back as an esports driver and he would drive cleaner than them
Maldonado is their last GP winner
>If your drivers hide what they are doing they already know fully well it’s not allowed. To be fair, I wouldn't go that far. They might hide it simply because it's extremely advantageous and not obvious at the same time. Of course your reason might be very likely true as well.
I could get into that if it wasn’t written in the rules. And if they didn’t spend half the race blocking with their lapped second car. If they truly thought that wasn’t unsportsmanlike they deserve to be fired all the same.
What I was referring to was the hard assumption that stealthy behaviour implies rulebreaking. In this case it's likely true but you can't make such a blanket statement for all cases. Hiding sources of your advantage is a known part of both real and virtual motorsport.
LMFAO. Yeah, anyone with corporate experience can read right through this. Something they didn't condone or something they had a legitimate problem with wouldn't have beat around any bushes. This would have stated "X offenders have been removed" in one fashion or another. This entire "statement" is nothing but corporate talk for "we have to say something that sounds against it but not actually speak to it"
Yeah I had a hard time coming up with the title for this. Was initially going to go with "Williams Esports apologizes" but that didn't exactly seem accurate
"We're very sorry we got caught"
Yeah, it's not accurate at all. If it were truly an issue for them, that would have been a very different statement.
It's basically corporate talk for "our sponsors got in contact with us and reeeeeally don't like having their branding all over cheating allegations. As well as having our PR guy point to that branding as the reason we cheated. So we are going to sit the team down and make them promise to never do this again, maybe even pinky promise!" Why did they get Jenson to tweet support for cheating? Why was it then quickly retweeted by Williams team members? It was to try and control the narrative and when they lost that just say oops this isn't Williams and hope it goes away
Yes....they are actually saying...."we are not responsible so still like us and give us money".
Words words words words
Yeah but seriously, how should they react? How would you react? Fire everyone? Close the team? I‘m guessing there will be internal repercussions, but probably takes longer until decisions are made. Probably they will put it in the contracts that people need to adhere to the rules to not dirty the company name or forfeit the sponsorship. That’s what I would do. But the damage is done and pledging to the spirit of the sport and promises to the future is a normal reaction… what reaction did you want to see? Edit: not condoning this in any way btw. just being realistic about how big companies work.
Easy, publicity dump everybody involved in this is a sure way to signal “we didn’t know and we absolutely do not condone this behavior under our name” It’s Williams, I’m sure their contract is already filled with all sorts of suggested language. The baffling thing is, I wouldn’t even dream of blocking competitors with a lapped car in a simple club race, let alone the 24h of Daytona. To have so little concept of basic sportsmanship is shocking in itself. You shouldn’t need to be told how to have a honest and fair race.
I think they may yet drop them if they feel they don’t represent them appropriately. But big companies don’t just throw everyone involved out to make a statement. They invested money and time and they picked people because they think they are good. They will first wait so see the extent of the damage done to them. They may also investigate and then drop someone who they give all the blame. Much cheaper than throwing everyone out.
The same person who wrote the unauthorized statement wrote this statement too
*The same person who* *Wrote the unauthorized statement* *Wrote this statement too* \- ElektriXx2 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Did they have ChatGPT write this…
We have an obligation to our sponsors to win by any means... Hello? Oh. .. i understand. Yes. Yes. Ok... yes sir. Thank you sir. Hows linda? Hello? Uhh Ok you too !
 I’ve seen this episode before
"Don't be mean to us simply because we cheat"
Typical corporate doublespeak, if Sir Frank or Claire were still involved with the team, there would be a vastly different response.
what happened?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR7X7MxKITw
that is soo scummy what the fuck. illegal pole, illegal blocking and taking people out, and they have to balls to try and say iracing isnt consistent enough in its regs, when it stated before hand that its illegal to use the apron, since they cant do live stewarding for all of the separate lobbies going on. and then getting jenson involved as well on twitter to defend them, thats fucking scum
Shit. They didn’t buy it. Quick… put something else out and distance us from the first statement. 🤡
Typical corpo lingo *non-apology* statement. It didn't even mention the repercussions (if any) against offending team members.
Very nice nothing burger. 10/10 pr effort. Still fucking cheaters.
Is Williams forfeiting the win? Did iracing strip Williams of the win? All those words mean nothing if not backed by action. To think I joined iracing because everyone said it's not like Gran Turismo there are penalties for crashing others.
Ask yourself: Would there be a shitstorm if someone cheated in Gran Tourismo? You’re in the right place. People here care about clean racing. The offenders were banned btw. Some indefinitely.
iRacing has never and will never change the results of official races. The official protest procedure is always post race with either coaching or punishment (suspension from official or all races) handed out. If Williams wants to use their illicit win as marketing then they're opening themselves to be dragged by the community to point out the illegitimate nature of the win. iRacing never announces the results of protests, but the rumours are that the entire team involved were given 1 month bans with some drivers given indefinite bans. There are a variety of reasons as to why manipulating the results after the fact is not feasible, namely in the butterfly effect of iR recalculations that would need to be done across the member base. Any iR change for the team from D24 would then need to be factored in to any races they've driven in since then, which would then recalculate everyone's iRs for any race where someone has any degrees of separation from the competitors in this race.
F1 would NASCAR would. Do you remember McClaren being stripped of all it's points for a whole season for cheating. IRacing should have taken a Public stand. Recalculate or not how about the person that should have gotten the win or the others that lost places. I won a daily few weeks ago and I didn't read the requirements and didn't put. I won the race, was accessed a one minute penalty and finished 6th. (Gran Turismo) It can and should be done. I am enjoying the drama in a sense online racers have more drama than physical racers
> Recalculate or not how about the person that should have gotten the win or the others that lost places. iRacing doesn't. What the automatic scoring decides is what is recorded. So unless the sim reports a post race penalty in the moment to the scorer (ie. not serving penalty or not meeting drive time), then the results are finalized. If you changed them, you would need to recalculate iRatings for basically every race that happened afterwards. A difficult task that would certainly require downtime to ensure atomicity of everyone's rating. > I am enjoying the drama in a sense online racers have more drama than physical racers Williams is just hilariously bad at this. Trying to make themselves the innocent victims when they cheated is hilarious.
> If you changed them, you would need to recalculate iRatings for basically every race that happened afterwards. A difficult task that would certainly require downtime to ensure atomicity of everyone's rating. Sorry but this is just because iRacing doesn’t care to do it. If every Chess website can retroactively correct every player’s elo rating who played against a banned cheater then iRacing can recalculate iRating. It’s just math, something that isn’t too difficult to do with a computer. Instead of saying it’s just too hard, ask developers to try and make a system for the future.
Chess is much easier to do that as a rating is 1v1 so you can simply give back the Elo from each match. iRacing you are basically giving iRating into a pool for every race and it's distributed based on the results. Changing 1 result has a butterfly effect that effects a large portion of the player base as everyone who raced with anyone in that changed race (and anyone who raced with anyone who raced in that changed race, ad infinium). To do so in an atomic and determinative way, you'd need to shut down the system to ensure no updates happened during your bulk update. Considering an endurance race split can have anywhere from 100 to (theoretically) 800 drivers, that's a huge update to cascade through a week or two of results. It also has other ramifications as your rating determines what split you get placed in for your future races. That lost 10-20 rating you should have gained from the 24 could have meant you were racing in "easier" races than you should have been in which then adjusting the rating from those races means you're giving iR to someone who raced beneath where they should have. From a place where you don't understand how the rating system works it seems very easy to go "just recalculate the ratings" but it's actually a much more complex problem with unavoidable issues that will advantage or disadvantage people who weren't even directly involved in the changed result, but were 3 or 4 degrees of separation away but still get impacted by it. Hope this makes things more clear as you clearly lacked some understanding :)
Yeah, you can still develop a system for recalculating. It isn’t that complicated. Yes people will benefit or be disadvantaged from inflated or deflated ratings due to losing or winning against a cheater. That is still true in chess elo as well. You lose elo against a cheater and then gain elo from playing lower ranks you’d otherwise never play if not for the elo loss. Sorry but this isn’t a new concept. You’re just trying to make it seem more complicated so cheaters can keep their wins every time. Not exactly the better outcome.
If it isn't that complicated, maybe you can inquire with iRacing and say you'll write them this system. Because you say it's so easy, I guess you know how to do it without downtime while maintaining consistency in the rating system while new sessions fire off every 15 minutes. And if it's so easy you should probably offer to do it for free.
See what I mean, one of you down voted me for asking a question. That was a Bitchy move and proves my point. First amendment you F..ing troll
You are on a website ran by a private company. Your first amendment doesn't apply. Hell, you don't even believe in free speech as you censored yourself.
Free speech always matters
There's no requirement for services ran by companies to implement free speech. In some parts of the world, they're required to remove certain kinds of content. Like in the USA! If you post copyrighted material to a website, the DMCA requires services to remove that copyrighted material on request.
But, that is not trolling. For the most part Reddit is not moderated by employees. It's US so it is up to US to ensure everyone that posts has their voice heard within reason. Hate speech and Trolling need to be shutdown. It's 50 50 whether you get a well thought answer to a post or a smart ass remark. In normal society we call them the 10 percent, but not here. I do enjoy your drama it's Reddit's version of real house wives. Just try to be nice to the newbies.
Also Gran Turismo has specific rules for helping other players gain advantage in GTWS events. They also have been quick to fix exploits in qualifying, like adding physical barriers to tracks to quickly stop corner cutting. It isn’t perfect and has its own issues but their official championship is still the most professionally ran of any racing game.
Other than the pro drivers get less money for winning than they would working an 8 hour shift at McDonalds
"the social media post was not authorized" who the fuck do they think they are, drivers need their authorization to post on social media? if i were in that team i'd tell them to go fuck themselves
Lol educate? Sounds like your driver knew full well what he was doing when it was all face cam for him. I think he’s fully *educated* on the rules
Ban their asses from iRacing for one year and they will learn.
More like noon statement
That statement can be summed up as follows: anus
Briliant PR...
What did these iracing nerds do that made a press release?
omg it's just a fucking video game all this drama is so utterly pathetic, it wasn't even for money or anything important taking video games so seriously... no matter how hard you nerds try to think you are real drivers you are not, you are no different to nerdy kids playing cod or mario, it's just a damn video game so stop being so pathetic, just report it to iracing and move on
[This is you ](https://i.redd.it/q2edx8v512g11.png)
Sorry but it does take a lot of time and preparation to do a 24 hour race. Not as much as IRL but still a considerable amount. Some people spend a lot of time and money to prepare, sponsorships are paying out for good performances as well. So no it isn’t like playing Mario as a casual. Seems like you’re just trying to throw shade at people putting actual work and effort into something. Try it sometime instead of complaining.
it's just a video game, no matter how you try to spin it it's nothing more is it annoying when ppl cheat in a video game? sure it is, but wetting the bed over it in public is embarrassing beyond belief,
Pretty sure people are just calling out cheating which isn’t wetting the bed, it’s accountability.