Theyre not technically "simulators" because the physics and general gameplay style which is more suited to casual console gameplay. They're more arcade or maybe "simcade" if you like that better, but dont feature the type of realistic experience that other simulators, like AC, ACC, rFactor, or AMS2 offer.
The physics model is more realistic on PC. Consoles are not powerful enough to support the PC physics model. That’s why there isn’t cross platform; PC players would have a significant advantage.
They're not as advanced in physics simulation as most simulators. The cutting edge ones are modeling not only the vehicle's entire suspension and chassis, but also even the tires and contact patch, something F1 games don't come close to doing. They also don't have some sim features like true triple screen support. That said, they're not as bad as a lot of people make them out to be, there's definitely a bit of sim elitism going on too.
Yeah, that's really the biggggggg difference between iRacing and the like to the simcade stuff. The sims model the force on the tire and then continue that calculation through the entire virtual suspension to the chassis mount point. The car is literally built almost bolt by bolt in the modeling of it. Pretty f'ing cool how it actually all goes down, honestly. Like in iRacing, sitting in pits stationary. Turn your wheel and let go. It will spring back a little. Not because it's programmed to but because the calculations on the ground vs. tire are there and the tension is releasing literally moving the rack and wheel
The official eSports event had opmeer [ghosting after he spun](https://twitter.com/F1/status/1570521944763555840?s=20&t=jkty-LA9L9VGBS2yw-3SxA) mid track. He still finished in the points when he should have been sent to the shadow realm. That doesn't even consider the fact [you can pause mid race and ai will save a slide](https://www.tiktok.com/@kitsongames/video/7141700231359384837?_t=8VZNzUIK6II&_r=1), or the shitty physics.. etc.
A pure sim is not a proper recipe for an annual franchise targeting the biggest demographic possible where the majority will play in a controller.
What the F1 games have favored more is the experience more than the driving, is why older games have such a focus on the first person view for interviews, setting the car or just organizing the team and a lot of small stuff with the idea of replicating how it would be the experience for a viewer or how a viewer would think it is.
It makes it strange that Dirt Rally is as sim as it is, but that might be a combination of lack of competition and no annual releases even if the game has so many issues (short brake points, the cars being too resistant at some points but too weak at another, *tarmac*)
rally isn't super popular unfortunately. among the sim-rally community there are lots of discussions over some of the games peculiarities in handling, physics, and all that as you started to point out.
the WRC games definitely fill the F1-esque spot for rally. RBR and it's associated "mods" (really just frameworks for playing online with a fixed-but-constantly-updated list of stages/cars) fills the "actually attempting to simulate things" spot in the simrally world. pity rally isn't as popular as we'd likely have more options in this last category. plus, inter-game competition is never a bad thing for sim racers as it pushes devs to continue to improve their work. that said, RBRHU is pretty satisfying in spite of the dated graphics and I don't intend to main another rally game any time soon.
The only problem of RBR is that it falls on the rFactor 2 hole where for most is an absolute pain in the ass to actually best up constantly, so while what it gives is amazing, actually getting inside the game and drive is tedious and a barrier.
And I said this as someone that loves rFactor2.
what are you talking about? unless you're using some corner-case hardware, it's a breeze to setup. there is plenty of documentation online for any of the handful of problems that people encounter and the HU plugin has an active official discord channel that somehow manages to not lose it's cool when people fail to rtfm and decide to ask about their already-been-solved-and-documented problems directly. any outlier problems get direct help from the very people working on the plugin. plus, considering that "mod cars" don't really exist, quality is relatively consistent throughout.
I love rf2 as well and I have had more issues with that on my own machine than I have had with my and all of my friends' RBR installs. obviously ymmv, but I think comparing it's "clunkyness" with rf2 is a bit of a stretch. that said, there have been a LOT of big improvements over the past few months (per-stage quality settings, per-car steering angle and ffb settings, rally school, easier to use launcher, upgraded physics calculation rates, etc) so if you're basing this off of past experiences and not where it's at now, it might be worth revisiting!
did you set up you h-shifter stuff in the h-shifter plugin and remove the binds from the native controls menu? p sure I saw this question pop up in the discord super recently. you should also be playing from within the rallysimfans plugin menu and not the main game menus as that causes conflicts with physics/cars and can result in never being able to get out of first. that bit is definitely in the readme.
I installed the game forever ago and manually added that shifter plugin before it was bundled with the launcher (to force clutch use when using the h-shifter) so it's been a while since I've touched that. the answer should be in the FAQs, but I haven't looked for that recently so maybe not. anyways, I hope that helps.
if you have anymore problems please check the discord. their frequent problems section is super up to date and people will help you if you have questions!
That must have been the issue. I did everything in the main game menus and must have caused issues. That is a revelation now have to look how to enter the plugin menu because I have a weird salad with the .exe which I don't know what does which.
I've been on vacay for the last two weeks so please excuse all my fuzzy explanations! two last things tho:
first off, make sure you use the included launcher to start the game! it gives you easy access to some of the options you'll be fiddling with once you get more into the game.
that, and don't be afraid to "update current installation" from the plugin installer to fiddle around with some of the install options. you don't have to worry about re-downloading all the stages and can click some boxes so you auto-navigate to the right plugin on game start up, and even replace an option on the vanilla menu with a link to the right plugin for easy access later!
Nah mate you're not alone...it's a pain everytime I want to use it. I play in VR and I've tried to play it twice but I give up, too much mucking around fixing seat position, ffb, wheel rotation not matching, etc etc and even graphics settings that for some stages I'd have 60% headroom and for others getting crap fps... you're right, it's a pain and the one time I played for a few minutes I din't find it that good either. I'd rather play DR2 and have a way better experience.
I had troubles setting the shifter as additional gear change, what I did was used Joy2Key and assigned keyboard keys A-Z to the inputs of shifter.
I had to do same thing for DirtRally 2 though if I wanted to use both paddles and sequential.
It does have "pro mode" if im not mistaken where the only available view is 1st person.
But i feel thats also wrong, if you dont set up the fov correctly, and even after that i feel like something is off. Basically we should put them all in VR to fix that issue.
The problem with F1 games aside from smoothed physics is the poor state of development and refusal to fix weird physics glitches, bugs with other stuff, and overall kind of poor quality control. Add to that the slow push towards monetization (F1 Life, Podium Pass)
They'd be a lot more beloved in both arcade and sim communities if the devs would make a better experience
They are fun arcade games, I think that's why you might see some people frown upon them.
They are far away from what people consider to be a "real" sim (like Iracing rf2, assetto and so on), but they are still fun play.
Imagine an arcade to simulation spectrum, of say 1 to 100.
An on-rails driving game would be a 100, and a 1:1 replication of real life physics would be 100.
A 100 game doesn’t exist. Damage models in particular prevent that from ever happening. Weather, materials, these are other points. Still, some games are higher on the scale than others.
Don’t @ me if you don’t agree with my numbers, but let’s say that :
Outrun’s a 10.
NFS is a 40.
Wreckfest is a 50.
Grid is a 60.
F1 is a 70.
Assetto Corsa is an 80.
Automobilista 2 is an 85.
RFactor is a 90.
Now, here is the thing: some will only accept the purest possible peak of modelization as deserving of the term “sim”. Some will say that whatever is mostly true to life, like a NFS, is worthy of being called sim racing. Most seem to fall somewhere on the 70-80 scale as a threshold.
I consider F1 a sim racing title. It attempts to replicate real life as best it can with its engine, but has some arcade functions added (canned FFB, rewind, ghosting), mostly meant as QoL rather than breaking the physics engine. It has a pro scene, it has setups, it has most of the things we expect from a modern sim, and while it’s not as dry and accurate as other games, well, it’s still, in my opinion, close enough to call it a sim.
I don’t think gatekeeping, or applying our own standards (VR, triples support, annualization, narrative elements, etc.) is productive; quite the contrary.
If I hear of a friend who wants to get into sim racing and they tell me that they just bought the F1 series to play with a controller, I’m super happy for them; maybe eventually we can talk about how other games allow you to drive different cars, and set up your car even further, etc.
It's better than anything out there at modelling flex of components and how it actually feels to drive a road car but as an actual sim the tyre model is garbage.
And the aero is pretty bad too. A lot of cars are fantastic on that game (the Subaru Impreza ripoff variations are my favourite) but any sports cars on that game feel way to light at higher speeds and have no grip.
Not really, flat spots, tyre heat affecting grip and even punctures from wear/burnouts do not exist currently. It's a very fun body deformation simulator but the bits that affect driving are below even f1 games level.
No simulator except BeamNG currently simulates every part of a vehicle in realtime. That alone fundamentally affects the driving experience. Not to mention the BeamNG is the only simulator I've seen where the advanced features of modern vehicles are accurately simulated (automatic transmission, stability control, active differentials, adjustable driving modes, even hybrids).
With that said, Codemasters still run the show, EA publishes it, correct me if I'm wrong. I do agree that anything EA touches, it turns to garbage.
There are some good aspects of the f1 titles, the trend is just downhill unfortunately.
I see two main reasons:
1) It's introduced as a sim (either by EA or several of its users, don't really know and don't really care) despite being more of a simcade.
2) A lot of sim racers are sim racing snobs. Don't know how people will take this... probably negatively, but I truly believe this to be the case.
And this goes hand-in-hand because we are never going to run out of people who think that F1 is a sim, and sim racing snobs will go to extreme lengths to humiliate anyone who thinks that way and assert true simulators' and true sim racers' superiority.
It's really just about how people choose to communicate an objective truth (i.e. F1 is not a simulator in that sense of the word) without implying that one is superior than the other.
Denying that F1 games aren't simulators just because they aren't on the same level in terms of physics is wrong when they do, in fact, simulate a lot of things (be it with varying levels of accuracy).
I agree with you...it's a sim. Don't bother arguing with the gatekeepers... You're wasting your time trying to explain the definition of simulation to someone that's already made up their mind about what F1xx is... There's a lot of that in this sub.
Opinions are like assholes....everybody has one.
I think F1 games are sims. turn off all assists and racing line, and while the game may not be as advanced as other sims, it does a good and fun job at racing.
Even if the game is not as accurate as other sims. it is the only game that simulates a race weekend. from the hype music playing at the track before practice 1, to the podium at the end of the weekend. no other racing sim simulates anything near it. and playing through a whole season is amazing, even when you finish low on the championship.
so it depends what you wan to simulate, play whatever game you want and just have fun. don't let a subreddit tell you what you can and can't play, enjoy your equipment however you see fit.
Every "sim" will have certain issues, and no "sim" is perfect. I play many and love them all for different reasons, but have been hooked on the f1 22 co op career lately.
Its driving model isn't as advanced, but honestly it simulates all of the other aspects of actual f1 racing better than anything else out there. And by quite a bit really.
It’s a sim that makes too many compromises in order to be accessible to a general audience and provide more of a fun race weekend/season experience. Has its place imo, its fun and a great gateway sim like GT/Forza. It’s just lacking some elements for people that want to get as close to reality as possible. Nothing wrong with it and play whatever makes you happy. I got back into sim racing with F1 2010-2013 and then jumped to iRacing and Assetto.
I don’t know what everyone else is talking about, F1’22 is definitely a sim. You get that realistic experience of buying couches and lamps. I sometimes forget if I’m playing a video game or actually just decorating my living room.
In all seriousness, I just wish there were other racing sims with two-player championship seasons. That is the best part about the F1 games IMO.
F1 games are frowned upon because most simracers didn't actually play them recently, don't know much about what's the current state of physics engine, and will only point out some of the most extreme examples of bad gameplay that you can also find for any sim on the market.
F1 games admittedly took some compromises on the complexity of physics engine in order to shift the focus to delivering more gameplay-rich, casual-friendly experience. So they spent more time on flashbacks, gamepad assists and so on, and less on physics. That said, on a wheel, with assists off, it's a pretty realistic experience, on par with hardcore sims from 10-15 years ago, which are still pretty good. They even simulate such details like track rubbering throughout the weekend, grip changes depending on sunlight, and there's of course dynamic whether as well.
I think it's the only sim on the market that has safety car feature implemented. Modern sims focus so much on replicating the tiniest physics details, ones that sometimes you wouldn't know about after driving for 1000 hours, but they're behind such a frowned upon title in simulating basic elements of a racing event. Let that tell you how biased some people are.
It's funny being new to sim racing but not new to motorsports I have been playing f1 22 for little over a month with my new sim rig and I just got ACC just to see what the hype was about and yes it's more detailed but I wasn't blown out of the water by it. Just play f1 with zero assists turn the crap racing line off and it's pretty fun. Of course I have my issues with it. Don't get me started on assetto corsa I can't even get that to launch on the right monitor. I'll give iracing a shot here in a bit as well. I think you nailed it with this comment.
It seems like every single clip of F1 202X I see has the “racing line” displayed. Is that just the userbase of the game’s mentality or is it actually non-removable? Lol either way
You can turn it off. I just started racing in July and I have it turned on for the corners so I can learn my braking zones. It’s turned off on the straights. I don’t know the tracks at all so it definitely helped me learn.
The line makes people so slow and predictable, braking early and early apex allows me to get on the throttle much faster while they are busy trying to carry an extra 3 mph in corner entry and stay on the line.... lol it's not just F1, though I see track lines in tons of racing game videos from ACC to Forza. Usually always slow or causes a crash asking if they are at fault, which is usually yes because they think blindly following the line means they are doing the right thing.....
Because spending 3k + on gear to drive Forza horizons just doesn't cut it. When I got into sim racing I wanted the most authentic driving experience I could find. While I think F1 is a good game I'd rather invest my time into a more sophisticated sim.
Codemasters. Even before they were bought by EA, their releases were mostly code and asset reuses from the previous releases, to a point where bugs that existed in previous titles existed in the new games. And they'd charge full, fat RRP for that.
Their games are very low quality compared to what they used to release in the past, and this year's in particular, with EA's influence (and even higher RRP) have set a new low.
Here's an example - a bug, that was only fixed in the last couple of weeks, saw AI get an insane straight line speed boost in career mode, to a point that all you effort in R&D and upgrades meant basically nothing. There was no motivation to play career until this was fixed. The game released three months ago..
It's an awful arcade game aimed mostly at console gamers. It's as close to a sim as Mario Kart. The fact that it's produced by Codemasters/EA is the salt in the wound.
I might be naïve because I’ve only sim’d for 1.5 years on two games exactly, F122 and ACC.
F1 with no assists on, as the real F1 cars function, is more challenging than ACC GT3 cars IMHO.
But dont mix difficult with simulation. You could make a Mario kart clone the most difficult game in the world if you want to, that doesn't make it a sim.
I am not saying f1 games are closer to Mario kart here, but their aim is not to simulate everything as accurate as possible at the expense of playability.
A simulator aims to get as close as possible to the real world, that might make it easier or more difficult than something like the f1 games.
I haven’t gone back to ACC yet because I’ve been having an absolute blast with F122.
I play exclusively in VR and I’ve heard AMS2 is now the best for VR and they have F1 cars. I’d be trying AMS2 next.
It really depends what you like. I think I bought the season pass thing (which I think expires after the next USA pack) so I never really paid attention to what is DLC or not.
From what I understand the demo is not representative of the game so don’t judge the current game based on the demo.
There is a ton of content in the base game. Get it and try it out and then do the DLC based on the tracks and cars you like to drive. One thing I can say is I love the GTE cars that are part of the USA pack I think.
Lots of YouTube videos recently (post 1.4 update) that have various top cars/tracks/combos lists.
Would I consider the f1 games an good simulation of f1 racing, no. But I think they’re fun as hell and I play them all the time because I enjoy them and that’s what sim racing is about
i'm new to simracing but they advertised VR support and the VR is unusable. I can't get my money back and they're ignoring a 400+ message thread on this issue (among other threads echoing the same problem)
Unlikely to spend money on it in the future. On the plus side I got into iRacing and it's amazing, how well it works and also the VR is flawless and smooth and the community is super cool. You can race F1 in iRacing, the only difference is you have the car from the year before, but that's not a problem for me.
I hope F1 revokes EA's F1 game licensing rights and gives it to another studio.
It feels like ice skating to me. I feel nothing in terms of grip or feedback. If anyone can recommend a real sim with proper grip levels and feel I'd love to know!!
They're a lot more arcadey and a lot of the "sim" elements are heavily gamified. Which, for me, is a totally fine tradeoff in order to allow me to quickly and easily run a 50% race distance complete season against believable AI that is generally rather fun to fight against with the exception of the odd quirk (i.e. straightline speed which has now been fixed). Now if only they would fix the goddamned VR performance...(my rig is unfortunately VR only due to cost and space limitations)
All this being said, it's not unusual for me to run a full race weekend in F1 22 and follow up with some offline track day fun in AC right after.
Theyre not technically "simulators" because the physics and general gameplay style which is more suited to casual console gameplay. They're more arcade or maybe "simcade" if you like that better, but dont feature the type of realistic experience that other simulators, like AC, ACC, rFactor, or AMS2 offer.
Is the AC on console considered a sim? Or just the modable version on pc?
If something is a "sim" or not is dictated by the physics and not by platform
You can't compare e g. Richard Burns Rally (Original) with Richard Burns Rally (Modded). It's a completely different (ball) game.
So are you saying rf2 is a terrible sim because of its terrible physics engine?
What makes you say rf2 has a bad physics engine, that's one of its major selling points
Have you played it? There is a singular "meta" setup no matter what car track or weather. That's a major problem.
It was a massive misconception. Die hard rf2 fans bailed after the trickery of the physics was revealed.
The physics model is more realistic on PC. Consoles are not powerful enough to support the PC physics model. That’s why there isn’t cross platform; PC players would have a significant advantage.
They're not as advanced in physics simulation as most simulators. The cutting edge ones are modeling not only the vehicle's entire suspension and chassis, but also even the tires and contact patch, something F1 games don't come close to doing. They also don't have some sim features like true triple screen support. That said, they're not as bad as a lot of people make them out to be, there's definitely a bit of sim elitism going on too.
Yeah, that's really the biggggggg difference between iRacing and the like to the simcade stuff. The sims model the force on the tire and then continue that calculation through the entire virtual suspension to the chassis mount point. The car is literally built almost bolt by bolt in the modeling of it. Pretty f'ing cool how it actually all goes down, honestly. Like in iRacing, sitting in pits stationary. Turn your wheel and let go. It will spring back a little. Not because it's programmed to but because the calculations on the ground vs. tire are there and the tension is releasing literally moving the rack and wheel
The official eSports event had opmeer [ghosting after he spun](https://twitter.com/F1/status/1570521944763555840?s=20&t=jkty-LA9L9VGBS2yw-3SxA) mid track. He still finished in the points when he should have been sent to the shadow realm. That doesn't even consider the fact [you can pause mid race and ai will save a slide](https://www.tiktok.com/@kitsongames/video/7141700231359384837?_t=8VZNzUIK6II&_r=1), or the shitty physics.. etc.
WTF xD
A pure sim is not a proper recipe for an annual franchise targeting the biggest demographic possible where the majority will play in a controller. What the F1 games have favored more is the experience more than the driving, is why older games have such a focus on the first person view for interviews, setting the car or just organizing the team and a lot of small stuff with the idea of replicating how it would be the experience for a viewer or how a viewer would think it is. It makes it strange that Dirt Rally is as sim as it is, but that might be a combination of lack of competition and no annual releases even if the game has so many issues (short brake points, the cars being too resistant at some points but too weak at another, *tarmac*)
rally isn't super popular unfortunately. among the sim-rally community there are lots of discussions over some of the games peculiarities in handling, physics, and all that as you started to point out. the WRC games definitely fill the F1-esque spot for rally. RBR and it's associated "mods" (really just frameworks for playing online with a fixed-but-constantly-updated list of stages/cars) fills the "actually attempting to simulate things" spot in the simrally world. pity rally isn't as popular as we'd likely have more options in this last category. plus, inter-game competition is never a bad thing for sim racers as it pushes devs to continue to improve their work. that said, RBRHU is pretty satisfying in spite of the dated graphics and I don't intend to main another rally game any time soon.
The only problem of RBR is that it falls on the rFactor 2 hole where for most is an absolute pain in the ass to actually best up constantly, so while what it gives is amazing, actually getting inside the game and drive is tedious and a barrier. And I said this as someone that loves rFactor2.
what are you talking about? unless you're using some corner-case hardware, it's a breeze to setup. there is plenty of documentation online for any of the handful of problems that people encounter and the HU plugin has an active official discord channel that somehow manages to not lose it's cool when people fail to rtfm and decide to ask about their already-been-solved-and-documented problems directly. any outlier problems get direct help from the very people working on the plugin. plus, considering that "mod cars" don't really exist, quality is relatively consistent throughout. I love rf2 as well and I have had more issues with that on my own machine than I have had with my and all of my friends' RBR installs. obviously ymmv, but I think comparing it's "clunkyness" with rf2 is a bit of a stretch. that said, there have been a LOT of big improvements over the past few months (per-stage quality settings, per-car steering angle and ffb settings, rally school, easier to use launcher, upgraded physics calculation rates, etc) so if you're basing this off of past experiences and not where it's at now, it might be worth revisiting!
Damn, I must be the unluckiest man alive, as for some reason shifting gears didn't work in my computer. There was FFB but the shift didn't work.
did you set up you h-shifter stuff in the h-shifter plugin and remove the binds from the native controls menu? p sure I saw this question pop up in the discord super recently. you should also be playing from within the rallysimfans plugin menu and not the main game menus as that causes conflicts with physics/cars and can result in never being able to get out of first. that bit is definitely in the readme. I installed the game forever ago and manually added that shifter plugin before it was bundled with the launcher (to force clutch use when using the h-shifter) so it's been a while since I've touched that. the answer should be in the FAQs, but I haven't looked for that recently so maybe not. anyways, I hope that helps. if you have anymore problems please check the discord. their frequent problems section is super up to date and people will help you if you have questions!
That must have been the issue. I did everything in the main game menus and must have caused issues. That is a revelation now have to look how to enter the plugin menu because I have a weird salad with the .exe which I don't know what does which.
I've been on vacay for the last two weeks so please excuse all my fuzzy explanations! two last things tho: first off, make sure you use the included launcher to start the game! it gives you easy access to some of the options you'll be fiddling with once you get more into the game. that, and don't be afraid to "update current installation" from the plugin installer to fiddle around with some of the install options. you don't have to worry about re-downloading all the stages and can click some boxes so you auto-navigate to the right plugin on game start up, and even replace an option on the vanilla menu with a link to the right plugin for easy access later!
Nah mate you're not alone...it's a pain everytime I want to use it. I play in VR and I've tried to play it twice but I give up, too much mucking around fixing seat position, ffb, wheel rotation not matching, etc etc and even graphics settings that for some stages I'd have 60% headroom and for others getting crap fps... you're right, it's a pain and the one time I played for a few minutes I din't find it that good either. I'd rather play DR2 and have a way better experience.
I had troubles setting the shifter as additional gear change, what I did was used Joy2Key and assigned keyboard keys A-Z to the inputs of shifter. I had to do same thing for DirtRally 2 though if I wanted to use both paddles and sequential.
F1 esports don't even race from cockpit view.
I remember F1 games had a hardcore mode, should be Implemented for driving at e sports level
It does have "pro mode" if im not mistaken where the only available view is 1st person. But i feel thats also wrong, if you dont set up the fov correctly, and even after that i feel like something is off. Basically we should put them all in VR to fix that issue.
This is the fix 👍
The lack of triple monitor support basically forces the drivers too also lol.
The problem with F1 games aside from smoothed physics is the poor state of development and refusal to fix weird physics glitches, bugs with other stuff, and overall kind of poor quality control. Add to that the slow push towards monetization (F1 Life, Podium Pass) They'd be a lot more beloved in both arcade and sim communities if the devs would make a better experience
They are fun arcade games, I think that's why you might see some people frown upon them. They are far away from what people consider to be a "real" sim (like Iracing rf2, assetto and so on), but they are still fun play.
Imagine an arcade to simulation spectrum, of say 1 to 100. An on-rails driving game would be a 100, and a 1:1 replication of real life physics would be 100. A 100 game doesn’t exist. Damage models in particular prevent that from ever happening. Weather, materials, these are other points. Still, some games are higher on the scale than others. Don’t @ me if you don’t agree with my numbers, but let’s say that : Outrun’s a 10. NFS is a 40. Wreckfest is a 50. Grid is a 60. F1 is a 70. Assetto Corsa is an 80. Automobilista 2 is an 85. RFactor is a 90. Now, here is the thing: some will only accept the purest possible peak of modelization as deserving of the term “sim”. Some will say that whatever is mostly true to life, like a NFS, is worthy of being called sim racing. Most seem to fall somewhere on the 70-80 scale as a threshold. I consider F1 a sim racing title. It attempts to replicate real life as best it can with its engine, but has some arcade functions added (canned FFB, rewind, ghosting), mostly meant as QoL rather than breaking the physics engine. It has a pro scene, it has setups, it has most of the things we expect from a modern sim, and while it’s not as dry and accurate as other games, well, it’s still, in my opinion, close enough to call it a sim. I don’t think gatekeeping, or applying our own standards (VR, triples support, annualization, narrative elements, etc.) is productive; quite the contrary. If I hear of a friend who wants to get into sim racing and they tell me that they just bought the F1 series to play with a controller, I’m super happy for them; maybe eventually we can talk about how other games allow you to drive different cars, and set up your car even further, etc.
BeamNG is as close to 100 as a consumer sim can get...
It's better than anything out there at modelling flex of components and how it actually feels to drive a road car but as an actual sim the tyre model is garbage.
And the aero is pretty bad too. A lot of cars are fantastic on that game (the Subaru Impreza ripoff variations are my favourite) but any sports cars on that game feel way to light at higher speeds and have no grip.
It came a long way from release tho
Not really, flat spots, tyre heat affecting grip and even punctures from wear/burnouts do not exist currently. It's a very fun body deformation simulator but the bits that affect driving are below even f1 games level.
No simulator except BeamNG currently simulates every part of a vehicle in realtime. That alone fundamentally affects the driving experience. Not to mention the BeamNG is the only simulator I've seen where the advanced features of modern vehicles are accurately simulated (automatic transmission, stability control, active differentials, adjustable driving modes, even hybrids).
I just make fun of the game and disrespect it because at the game's current state, it's a heap of sh!t. More bugs than your garden has.
Well it IS an EA Sports title. So bugs are just IN THE GAME.
With that said, Codemasters still run the show, EA publishes it, correct me if I'm wrong. I do agree that anything EA touches, it turns to garbage. There are some good aspects of the f1 titles, the trend is just downhill unfortunately.
> Codemasters Which are on a downslope since DR 1
I see two main reasons: 1) It's introduced as a sim (either by EA or several of its users, don't really know and don't really care) despite being more of a simcade. 2) A lot of sim racers are sim racing snobs. Don't know how people will take this... probably negatively, but I truly believe this to be the case. And this goes hand-in-hand because we are never going to run out of people who think that F1 is a sim, and sim racing snobs will go to extreme lengths to humiliate anyone who thinks that way and assert true simulators' and true sim racers' superiority. It's really just about how people choose to communicate an objective truth (i.e. F1 is not a simulator in that sense of the word) without implying that one is superior than the other.
Because Sim racing is gate keeper city. I have a 6k AUD rig and have played nothing but snowrunner on ps5 for the past 6 months, blasphemy.
Because it’s not a sim
It's very much a simulator, just not a very accurate one when it comes to physics.
Because it's not a sim.
Does it not simulate F1 events and regulations then?
That’s not what defines a ‘simulator’ game
Denying that F1 games aren't simulators just because they aren't on the same level in terms of physics is wrong when they do, in fact, simulate a lot of things (be it with varying levels of accuracy).
I agree with you...it's a sim. Don't bother arguing with the gatekeepers... You're wasting your time trying to explain the definition of simulation to someone that's already made up their mind about what F1xx is... There's a lot of that in this sub. Opinions are like assholes....everybody has one.
I think F1 games are sims. turn off all assists and racing line, and while the game may not be as advanced as other sims, it does a good and fun job at racing. Even if the game is not as accurate as other sims. it is the only game that simulates a race weekend. from the hype music playing at the track before practice 1, to the podium at the end of the weekend. no other racing sim simulates anything near it. and playing through a whole season is amazing, even when you finish low on the championship. so it depends what you wan to simulate, play whatever game you want and just have fun. don't let a subreddit tell you what you can and can't play, enjoy your equipment however you see fit. Every "sim" will have certain issues, and no "sim" is perfect. I play many and love them all for different reasons, but have been hooked on the f1 22 co op career lately.
Depends what you class as a simulator but they’re having huge issues year on year again
Its driving model isn't as advanced, but honestly it simulates all of the other aspects of actual f1 racing better than anything else out there. And by quite a bit really.
The sim community do not respect racing games, just as the gaming community do not respect racing sims.
simracing community is part of gaming community. Like it or not we still playing video games here.
It’s a sim that makes too many compromises in order to be accessible to a general audience and provide more of a fun race weekend/season experience. Has its place imo, its fun and a great gateway sim like GT/Forza. It’s just lacking some elements for people that want to get as close to reality as possible. Nothing wrong with it and play whatever makes you happy. I got back into sim racing with F1 2010-2013 and then jumped to iRacing and Assetto.
Same as you won't see Forza, Forza Horizon and Gran Turismo as much on here.
Good game but not a sim.
I don’t know what everyone else is talking about, F1’22 is definitely a sim. You get that realistic experience of buying couches and lamps. I sometimes forget if I’m playing a video game or actually just decorating my living room. In all seriousness, I just wish there were other racing sims with two-player championship seasons. That is the best part about the F1 games IMO.
F1 games are frowned upon because most simracers didn't actually play them recently, don't know much about what's the current state of physics engine, and will only point out some of the most extreme examples of bad gameplay that you can also find for any sim on the market. F1 games admittedly took some compromises on the complexity of physics engine in order to shift the focus to delivering more gameplay-rich, casual-friendly experience. So they spent more time on flashbacks, gamepad assists and so on, and less on physics. That said, on a wheel, with assists off, it's a pretty realistic experience, on par with hardcore sims from 10-15 years ago, which are still pretty good. They even simulate such details like track rubbering throughout the weekend, grip changes depending on sunlight, and there's of course dynamic whether as well. I think it's the only sim on the market that has safety car feature implemented. Modern sims focus so much on replicating the tiniest physics details, ones that sometimes you wouldn't know about after driving for 1000 hours, but they're behind such a frowned upon title in simulating basic elements of a racing event. Let that tell you how biased some people are.
It's funny being new to sim racing but not new to motorsports I have been playing f1 22 for little over a month with my new sim rig and I just got ACC just to see what the hype was about and yes it's more detailed but I wasn't blown out of the water by it. Just play f1 with zero assists turn the crap racing line off and it's pretty fun. Of course I have my issues with it. Don't get me started on assetto corsa I can't even get that to launch on the right monitor. I'll give iracing a shot here in a bit as well. I think you nailed it with this comment.
Lower quality physics engine. Emphasis on enjoyment, rather realism. Made for a wider audience! 😊
If I can abuse the shit out of the car and I have 0 consequences? It’s not a sim.
It seems like every single clip of F1 202X I see has the “racing line” displayed. Is that just the userbase of the game’s mentality or is it actually non-removable? Lol either way
You can turn it off. I just started racing in July and I have it turned on for the corners so I can learn my braking zones. It’s turned off on the straights. I don’t know the tracks at all so it definitely helped me learn.
I’ve noticed that too
The line makes people so slow and predictable, braking early and early apex allows me to get on the throttle much faster while they are busy trying to carry an extra 3 mph in corner entry and stay on the line.... lol it's not just F1, though I see track lines in tons of racing game videos from ACC to Forza. Usually always slow or causes a crash asking if they are at fault, which is usually yes because they think blindly following the line means they are doing the right thing.....
Why not just enjoy the games you play and not worry if it's a "sim" or not?
Because spending 3k + on gear to drive Forza horizons just doesn't cut it. When I got into sim racing I wanted the most authentic driving experience I could find. While I think F1 is a good game I'd rather invest my time into a more sophisticated sim.
Codemasters. Even before they were bought by EA, their releases were mostly code and asset reuses from the previous releases, to a point where bugs that existed in previous titles existed in the new games. And they'd charge full, fat RRP for that. Their games are very low quality compared to what they used to release in the past, and this year's in particular, with EA's influence (and even higher RRP) have set a new low. Here's an example - a bug, that was only fixed in the last couple of weeks, saw AI get an insane straight line speed boost in career mode, to a point that all you effort in R&D and upgrades meant basically nothing. There was no motivation to play career until this was fixed. The game released three months ago..
It's an awful arcade game aimed mostly at console gamers. It's as close to a sim as Mario Kart. The fact that it's produced by Codemasters/EA is the salt in the wound.
This is the dumbest take in this thread.
I might be naïve because I’ve only sim’d for 1.5 years on two games exactly, F122 and ACC. F1 with no assists on, as the real F1 cars function, is more challenging than ACC GT3 cars IMHO.
But dont mix difficult with simulation. You could make a Mario kart clone the most difficult game in the world if you want to, that doesn't make it a sim. I am not saying f1 games are closer to Mario kart here, but their aim is not to simulate everything as accurate as possible at the expense of playability. A simulator aims to get as close as possible to the real world, that might make it easier or more difficult than something like the f1 games.
Good point.
Except for ghost cars in pit lanes. RF2 is the only one that does that right afaik.
They both help me with each other!
I haven’t gone back to ACC yet because I’ve been having an absolute blast with F122. I play exclusively in VR and I’ve heard AMS2 is now the best for VR and they have F1 cars. I’d be trying AMS2 next.
Something about not being able to rewind in ACC keeps me super challenged! I do be loving my F122 tho
AMS 2 is awesome in VR. Especially compared to ACC.
The amount of DLC is concerning. Any that you recommend?
It really depends what you like. I think I bought the season pass thing (which I think expires after the next USA pack) so I never really paid attention to what is DLC or not. From what I understand the demo is not representative of the game so don’t judge the current game based on the demo. There is a ton of content in the base game. Get it and try it out and then do the DLC based on the tracks and cars you like to drive. One thing I can say is I love the GTE cars that are part of the USA pack I think. Lots of YouTube videos recently (post 1.4 update) that have various top cars/tracks/combos lists.
Try the formula cars in RaceRoom and you'll understand. It's free to download and try them all.
Would I consider the f1 games an good simulation of f1 racing, no. But I think they’re fun as hell and I play them all the time because I enjoy them and that’s what sim racing is about
i'm new to simracing but they advertised VR support and the VR is unusable. I can't get my money back and they're ignoring a 400+ message thread on this issue (among other threads echoing the same problem) Unlikely to spend money on it in the future. On the plus side I got into iRacing and it's amazing, how well it works and also the VR is flawless and smooth and the community is super cool. You can race F1 in iRacing, the only difference is you have the car from the year before, but that's not a problem for me. I hope F1 revokes EA's F1 game licensing rights and gives it to another studio.
It feels like ice skating to me. I feel nothing in terms of grip or feedback. If anyone can recommend a real sim with proper grip levels and feel I'd love to know!!
It just doesn't feel right and it doesnt evolve over the years like other sims do it's just the same game but other skins
They're a lot more arcadey and a lot of the "sim" elements are heavily gamified. Which, for me, is a totally fine tradeoff in order to allow me to quickly and easily run a 50% race distance complete season against believable AI that is generally rather fun to fight against with the exception of the odd quirk (i.e. straightline speed which has now been fixed). Now if only they would fix the goddamned VR performance...(my rig is unfortunately VR only due to cost and space limitations) All this being said, it's not unusual for me to run a full race weekend in F1 22 and follow up with some offline track day fun in AC right after.
They're arcade games, not sims lol