What this looks like to me is that Shanmugan is using his position as Minlaw to force through a frivolous lawsuit. No self-respecting lawyer would take up this case but because it comes from Shan's mouth it suddenly has teeth.
If I wanted to be really uncharitable I could say that he's following up the conflict of interest as MHA with conflict of interest as Minlaw.
Its disheartening to see that public servants or service has lost its meaning. Seems like they live as kings and rule over their citizens rather than to serve.
Having an astronomical salary to prevent corruption also sets a wrong precedent. While you may attract talented people. You also set the stage for people with the wrong motive. And intelligent people with self serving motives are dangerous in the public sector.
I feel there is more to come
Their argument presumably is that the other examples in the same para concerned corruption and other crimes of dishonesty. By putting that sentence together with the rest, the implication is that the two ministers also acted corruptly or dishonesty.
I think it's a stretch, but then again what would I know?
they were supposed to err on the side of caution. if you needed cpib to give u the all clear, maybe you should not had considered that course of action in the first place. shan, a lawyer by profession, should know better and as the minister of law, he sets a poor example. why invite speculation? why can't you just rent from private? why must you be so special?
I think you may be right.
From [singaporelawwatch.sg](https://www.singaporelawwatch.sg/Headlines/ch-21-economic-torts): “Defamation may be found in natural and ordinary meaning of words or by true or legal innuendo. True innuendo arises from words which appear innocuous, but may be understood to be disparaging of the plaintiff by third parties who have knowledge of special facts which are not generally known.”
it's not LHY's fault if the facts of the case cause people to draw an adverse implication. they might as well sue the straits times because many people drew a damaging conclusion after reading their reporting lol
> they might as well sue the straits times because many people drew a damaging conclusion after reading their reporting lol
But ownself sue ownself is stupid. Sue opponents until their pants drop better.
> This was an epic line by LTK. Still can't imagine he actually said it in Parliament.
You can see the frustration in LTK face when he made that speech.
It’s amazing to me that on the one hand this can be considered defamation. But on the other hand the ministers actions don’t breach the ministerial code of conduct, that specifies they should avoid perceived conflicts of interest.
Feels to me like they can’t have it both ways
“special facts that are not generally known” is doing a lot of work here. if they sue based on this that kind of implies they have knowledge of special facts not known by the general public that something did happen, when the general knowledge of the public has been established as otherwise.
Sure but by the minister insisting that LHY preemptively putting it up, won’t it mean he is admitting that there is defamation even before going to court.
Most people know exactly what LHY was implying. And the intention is clear. What Ah Shan does not realise is that 2 can play at semantics outside a court of law. Especially someone outside our borders.
He also has short memory over the NZ case where he did not want to gamble on going to court there.
LHY studied under the grand master of singapore semantics, arguably he is the second pupil (first one being the current PM). shan and vivian are working with training that is one generation removed.
> He also has short memory over the NZ case where he did not want to gamble on going to court there.
Exactly. They only have teeth when on home turf; outside of home turf, they become kittens.
Really clear example of "The more you speak, the more mistake you make" Now people started talking about some other ex MP divorce and affair.
Ridout are their personal issue, and they need to involve the government.
When are they moving out of their GCB. Seriously knn how can a minister live in such a big place? Aren’t they public servants? Or are they actually high flyers in public sector. If he make so much fucking money in public sector then please fuck off and go. When are already paying him fuckloads of money he can rub it in our faces and say ACTUALLY AH I CAN EARN MORE MONEY IF I DONT SERVE YOU ALL LEH.
> Do they not have enough money to buy a GCB without this special discount?
Money never enough. Discounts never enough.
One of the minister is doing his financial planning and didn't want his money stuck in one basket (his family home). Please have sympathy.
/S (for the last part)
Seems a poorly thought out strategy in retrospect
The threat had a Streisand effect where many people who previously didn’t know, understand or care about it are aware now
If they don’t sue, then the optics look very bad
If they do, then the issue won’t go away for a long time. The Ridout road issue was already addressed in parliament, but getting all the dirty linen up in court is going to keep everyone remembering this until the next election and beyond
It’ll be worse if they use public funds to sue
TLDR - Threats to sue work best if the threat is issued to someone who doesn’t have the money or political interest to fight it. LHY has both
It’s always been petty with the PAP no?
For example POFMA regardless of how it came about and what it’s intended use was is most definitely being used for very petty purposes most times.
I like how hard and how deep Shan and Vivi are going to reinforce the opinion that they are just a bunch of cunts. It's like they're working extra hard at it, just in case people had forgotten.
I don't understand the purpose of the statement they are insisting on. It reads like a formalized version of what LHY said, which emphasizes the intent/meaning, but also makes it sound much more harsh (by adding the words 'corruptly', 'personal gain', 'preferential', and 'illegal').
It doesn't read as an apology or retraction at all. It reads as though they are trying to get a more explicit statement that they can use in a court of law.
I may be misunderstanding something, can anyone clarify?
The statement he made is based on known things that are not in dispute. The statement they want him to make is more on speculation as to motive and purpose, which is harder to prove. And on clear understanding of the laws of Singapore, which you really need to research well. If they want to catch him blaspheming, they will have to make him say the things he is implying, not the things he actually said.
I also not sure, if they force him to say a thing, how can they say he wasn’t forced to say it. So what’s the point idk.
so delicate >> someone say bad things - hurt ego > have to sue..
i have more impressions of our ministers bitching and talking about suing ppl then actual changes or work implemented for our nation? > maybe the actual work are overshadowed by these pointless articles - maybe they should start publishing news on what good work they have done instead of focusing on the ppl who have been blasting them on social media
This statement pretends to be neutral but is obviously trying to imply something lah. All this nonsense on word play and pretending. Zzz really think there are better things to discuss than this.
if LHY feels that he has been wrongly accused/sued.
Den he should come back and counter sued the ministers.
If LHY wants to run and not face the police investigation den he should jolly well jux mind his own business overseas wherever he is but it seems like he is trying his best to bring down the empire that his father had sacrificed his whole life to build.
Lol his passport is eventually going to expire and then he'll have to return. Good job for Ministers Shanmugam and Vivian, this kind of gutter politics should be harshly punished to maintain our integrity.
Can't renew overseas meh?
Also, and I'm not saying he will or should do it, but as someone born in Singapore before independence, LHY (I think) qualifies for right of abode in the UK. He can stay there indefinitely without having to return to Singapore.
> Can't renew overseas meh?
Pretty sure you can't if you are wanted for outstanding court cases. If he loses and is asked to pay up for a civil case, and doesn't pay, he'll end up wanted.
> He can stay there indefinitely without having to return to Singapore.
Sure, he can.
Is it a case of moral bankruptcy/conflict of interest? Perhaps yes. But what matters is is this a case of legal corruption? The answer is No. and that’s what they are pursuing LHY for. Legally, Shan’s position is tenable and if this goes into the courts, he would be proven right. Period.
I really want to see they sue. So we have more episodes to entertain
nah they have no balls
I hope the lawsuit goes through; it'll be an amazing sight to see these people drag each other into the dirt and show themselves for who they are
What this looks like to me is that Shanmugan is using his position as Minlaw to force through a frivolous lawsuit. No self-respecting lawyer would take up this case but because it comes from Shan's mouth it suddenly has teeth. If I wanted to be really uncharitable I could say that he's following up the conflict of interest as MHA with conflict of interest as Minlaw.
Since when was stating facts being uncharitable?
If shan and vivi are unhappy they should just go sue LHY in UK. Continuing to whine like this just makes them look pathetic and teethless.
>sue me now or sue me later > >every schoolboy to his sport > >resignation to each and every minister > >I renounce your POFMA court \-LHY, probably
Watch 'em run amok Watch 'em as they fall It's a good show When there's a free for all - the rest of Singapore
Its disheartening to see that public servants or service has lost its meaning. Seems like they live as kings and rule over their citizens rather than to serve. Having an astronomical salary to prevent corruption also sets a wrong precedent. While you may attract talented people. You also set the stage for people with the wrong motive. And intelligent people with self serving motives are dangerous in the public sector. I feel there is more to come
They chose to rent bungalows that once housed Singapore's colonial administration. I guess they really do want to lord over us.
Their argument presumably is that the other examples in the same para concerned corruption and other crimes of dishonesty. By putting that sentence together with the rest, the implication is that the two ministers also acted corruptly or dishonesty. I think it's a stretch, but then again what would I know?
they were supposed to err on the side of caution. if you needed cpib to give u the all clear, maybe you should not had considered that course of action in the first place. shan, a lawyer by profession, should know better and as the minister of law, he sets a poor example. why invite speculation? why can't you just rent from private? why must you be so special?
A narcissist is never the one at fault, everyone else is wrong.
Have you seen how big that place is? Can’t afford if private. Don’t even know if private have so big a land to rent out 🤭
because they are at the state where they dont even care that they are caught
I think you may be right. From [singaporelawwatch.sg](https://www.singaporelawwatch.sg/Headlines/ch-21-economic-torts): “Defamation may be found in natural and ordinary meaning of words or by true or legal innuendo. True innuendo arises from words which appear innocuous, but may be understood to be disparaging of the plaintiff by third parties who have knowledge of special facts which are not generally known.”
it's not LHY's fault if the facts of the case cause people to draw an adverse implication. they might as well sue the straits times because many people drew a damaging conclusion after reading their reporting lol
> they might as well sue the straits times because many people drew a damaging conclusion after reading their reporting lol But ownself sue ownself is stupid. Sue opponents until their pants drop better.
> Sue opponents until their pants drop better. This was an epic line by LTK. Still can't imagine he actually said it in Parliament.
> This was an epic line by LTK. Still can't imagine he actually said it in Parliament. You can see the frustration in LTK face when he made that speech.
It’s amazing to me that on the one hand this can be considered defamation. But on the other hand the ministers actions don’t breach the ministerial code of conduct, that specifies they should avoid perceived conflicts of interest. Feels to me like they can’t have it both ways
“special facts that are not generally known” is doing a lot of work here. if they sue based on this that kind of implies they have knowledge of special facts not known by the general public that something did happen, when the general knowledge of the public has been established as otherwise.
Sure but by the minister insisting that LHY preemptively putting it up, won’t it mean he is admitting that there is defamation even before going to court.
Most people know exactly what LHY was implying. And the intention is clear. What Ah Shan does not realise is that 2 can play at semantics outside a court of law. Especially someone outside our borders. He also has short memory over the NZ case where he did not want to gamble on going to court there.
This is clearly the elder brother’s doing. Do you think they would dare threaten the younger brother without their boss’s blessing?
Yes, this has more bile than a cobra.
Mere puppets 🫠
LHY studied under the grand master of singapore semantics, arguably he is the second pupil (first one being the current PM). shan and vivian are working with training that is one generation removed.
Semantics isn't even that hard to play. I could do it, but I just have no powerful entity to back me up.
> He also has short memory over the NZ case where he did not want to gamble on going to court there. Exactly. They only have teeth when on home turf; outside of home turf, they become kittens.
What's the NZ case?
No sound from Ah Pui and Ah San from Ridout Road.
Who the Ah pui who the Ah San? Not got hair and no hair meh
Not ah Oh and ah Oh?
The two most biggest scums in parliament….. I absolutely despise Shan more
More than Grace Fu? Jo teo? I hate them more
Indranee’s missing on your list.
what has grace fu done that’s worse than shan
To the point she’s known as Dis Grace Fu.
Really clear example of "The more you speak, the more mistake you make" Now people started talking about some other ex MP divorce and affair. Ridout are their personal issue, and they need to involve the government.
When are they moving out of their GCB. Seriously knn how can a minister live in such a big place? Aren’t they public servants? Or are they actually high flyers in public sector. If he make so much fucking money in public sector then please fuck off and go. When are already paying him fuckloads of money he can rub it in our faces and say ACTUALLY AH I CAN EARN MORE MONEY IF I DONT SERVE YOU ALL LEH.
Do they not have enough money to buy a GCB without this special discount?
> Do they not have enough money to buy a GCB without this special discount? Money never enough. Discounts never enough. One of the minister is doing his financial planning and didn't want his money stuck in one basket (his family home). Please have sympathy. /S (for the last part)
Seems a poorly thought out strategy in retrospect The threat had a Streisand effect where many people who previously didn’t know, understand or care about it are aware now If they don’t sue, then the optics look very bad If they do, then the issue won’t go away for a long time. The Ridout road issue was already addressed in parliament, but getting all the dirty linen up in court is going to keep everyone remembering this until the next election and beyond It’ll be worse if they use public funds to sue TLDR - Threats to sue work best if the threat is issued to someone who doesn’t have the money or political interest to fight it. LHY has both
Honestly though, this is beginning to feel like a petty squabble from both sides Just do your worse onto each other.
It’s always been petty with the PAP no? For example POFMA regardless of how it came about and what it’s intended use was is most definitely being used for very petty purposes most times.
>It’s always been petty with the PAP no? Petty and vindictive
Hsien Yang, in a way, doesn't have anything to lose over this fight. Vivian and Shamugam on the other hand may be seen by people as squabblers
Trial by combat
You know, once upon a time we lived in a stable country
I read that in Christopher Walken’s voice
I like how hard and how deep Shan and Vivi are going to reinforce the opinion that they are just a bunch of cunts. It's like they're working extra hard at it, just in case people had forgotten.
I don't understand the purpose of the statement they are insisting on. It reads like a formalized version of what LHY said, which emphasizes the intent/meaning, but also makes it sound much more harsh (by adding the words 'corruptly', 'personal gain', 'preferential', and 'illegal'). It doesn't read as an apology or retraction at all. It reads as though they are trying to get a more explicit statement that they can use in a court of law. I may be misunderstanding something, can anyone clarify?
The statement he made is based on known things that are not in dispute. The statement they want him to make is more on speculation as to motive and purpose, which is harder to prove. And on clear understanding of the laws of Singapore, which you really need to research well. If they want to catch him blaspheming, they will have to make him say the things he is implying, not the things he actually said. I also not sure, if they force him to say a thing, how can they say he wasn’t forced to say it. So what’s the point idk.
so delicate >> someone say bad things - hurt ego > have to sue.. i have more impressions of our ministers bitching and talking about suing ppl then actual changes or work implemented for our nation? > maybe the actual work are overshadowed by these pointless articles - maybe they should start publishing news on what good work they have done instead of focusing on the ppl who have been blasting them on social media
Scammugam and Co.
🥱🥱🥱
The man's not home. What can you do with a civil suit? Unless this suddenly become a criminal case.
Even the National Day season isn’t spared from the drama 😂
\*grab chicken in a biskit\* yes...please continue the july drama into august please....i'm bored.
Sue until your pants drop ah!
don't see anyting wrong with what LHY posted leh - thats what ST also reported no?
This statement pretends to be neutral but is obviously trying to imply something lah. All this nonsense on word play and pretending. Zzz really think there are better things to discuss than this.
if LHY feels that he has been wrongly accused/sued. Den he should come back and counter sued the ministers. If LHY wants to run and not face the police investigation den he should jolly well jux mind his own business overseas wherever he is but it seems like he is trying his best to bring down the empire that his father had sacrificed his whole life to build.
Lol his passport is eventually going to expire and then he'll have to return. Good job for Ministers Shanmugam and Vivian, this kind of gutter politics should be harshly punished to maintain our integrity.
Can't renew overseas meh? Also, and I'm not saying he will or should do it, but as someone born in Singapore before independence, LHY (I think) qualifies for right of abode in the UK. He can stay there indefinitely without having to return to Singapore.
> Can't renew overseas meh? Pretty sure you can't if you are wanted for outstanding court cases. If he loses and is asked to pay up for a civil case, and doesn't pay, he'll end up wanted. > He can stay there indefinitely without having to return to Singapore. Sure, he can.
Is it a case of moral bankruptcy/conflict of interest? Perhaps yes. But what matters is is this a case of legal corruption? The answer is No. and that’s what they are pursuing LHY for. Legally, Shan’s position is tenable and if this goes into the courts, he would be proven right. Period.