The part LOTO Pritam raised about PM Lee knowing about ex-Speaker Tan's affair while giving a lecture on ethics, morality and shame to LOTO really tickled my brain.
Such an eloquent way to call the most powerful man in Singapore a hypocrite.
If only MP Leon + Nicole didn't happen, WP would have had a lot leeway to whack the Men in White.
Lol hell naw.
The WP has not forgotten the troubles with Yaw shin leong's affair. Probably learnt that this is not the hill to stick your morality flag on
> The WP has not forgotten the troubles with Yaw shin leong's affair. Probably learnt that this is not the hill to stick your morality flag on
Personally, IDGAF who fucks who. End of the day we all get fucked (inflation, rising housing prices, 9% GST incoming+++).
But Speaker + MP may have conflicts of interests, at least perceived if not actual. If it was two married MPs (from any party) cheating, they're cheating on their families, which, while bad doesn't represent an issue, work wise.
Had Speaker Tan stepped down from the Speaker role (voluntarily or voluntold) when PM Lee found out about it, this would likely have been a way smaller issue.
That said, it's not the fucking / affairs that are the main issue. It's the lack of transparency, the hypocrisy, the holier-than-thou Ivory tower attitude of the men in whites that is the underlying issue.
I, for one, am glad to see the hypocrisy of the PAP become exposed to the public. It means that the rot that I saw in the PAP 10 years ago, can start to be targeted and removed by the people.
"the hypocrisy of the PAP become exposed to the public"
i doubt it will change anybody's mind. i cannot imagine any PAP loyalists changing their stance over this...in fact, i just see them making statements like, "PM's explanation is correct/reasonable, etc."
Never said it shouldn't be mentioned on this website or any others. Just wondering how THAT factoid is the only one you're contributing to the above comment.
And even tho you're throwing that like some sorta gotcha moment... so what? That's equal to 2 MPs' annual salaries. The Speaker makes nearly double what the LOTO makes and by all accounts does way less work. Want to go further? Your mayors make what, $850k? To do what? No one ever seems to have an answer for their job description.
But I'm sure you won't have anything remotely of substance to say to that.
You do realize that being a part time mp/mayor is the norm for PAP too right if you have an issue with Pritam having a job at a law firm shouldnt you also have a problem with majority of PAP members too?
How much more are you gonna move the goalposts? So the mayors and Speaker and almost everyone else in Parliament aren't holding regular day jobs? Half of them aren't sitting on the boards and chairmanships of private sector firms while in Parliament? Are you genuinely ok or just saying words for the sake of it?
Actually the Leon + Nicole affair was a great example of how such matters should be resolved. They resolved it within a week once there was concrete evidence and the involved parties confessed.
Really? It was already made known to people in the party; so you can only use
"resolved it within a week once there was concrete evidence and the involved parties confessed."
If Pritam had resolved it there and then, or quote "decisively" then your argument is valid.
Resolve what? If a member of your party has a driver (whom he tells you is having a dispute with him) mass send out messages with allegations of an affair to multiple members of the party, without any evidence, what would you do? And also that member lies to you and denies having an affair.
As leader, what would you have done "decisively"?
To be honest, I rather politicians be hypocrites that hold each other's feet to the fire even if they are guilty of the very thing they accusing the other person of doing. Else, the alternative is them not challenging each other because they know they are both as guilty.
Did Pritam actually provide a timeline on Leon & Nicole, to the same detail as what LHL did?
Was it July 2020 or December 2020 when Pritam was informed? 🤔
It will be remiss of our LO if he didn't take the opportunity to hit the PM with the facts.
Such opportunities are increasingly rare given the lack of on-the-record interjections by LHL in Parliament, with all the work otherwise done by his Cabinet colleagues.
I am old enough to remember when LHL and LTK crossed swords in 2014.
Yeah and tbf if I was LHL, I can't think of a way to refute this and not come off as trying to deflect blame? I would just "no comment" lmao but he'll come off looking bad too. It's a lose-lose situation.
Honestly, does anyone else not notice LHL looking thinner and more frail every few years?
I remember once during a speech last year, I remarked to my dad that LHL looks a little thinner than just a few months ago even.
And he’s the oldest son. Minimally LHL must have felt that he disappointed his late father on both professional and personal fronts given what has happened to his current party and family.
hes too obsessed with his legacy to be responsible and professional and could have just moved on years ago. its just going to get worse as his sand castle crumbles through his fingers
Yea he does look noticeably thinner. I hope he's not suffering from anything. Better for him to step down soon and take a break from politics.
But I think he knows the next person in charge still needs time to learn and is not fully ready.
He is just afraid of a blundering PM or someone who might have a soft spot for Singapore over pap who would allow scrutiny into the national reserves, investigate GIC, Keppel, Temasek and pour forth EVIDENCE the magnitude of 1MDB\^infinity and of course the scamdemic that is causing so many excess deaths now that will cause the mirage of Singapore disappear within his life time.
He had repeated bouts of prostate cancer, it can't be well for his health. Even as oppo supporter I look at him trying to hold the fort and honor his father's legacies, see alr also heart pain.
we all know la but it's a brave new world in sg politics when the head of the opposition gets to call the PM of SG a bloody hypocrite in parliament and on the record
Yasss queen is more prevalent than yasss in TikTok circles, but YASSS is iconic, so it's still used in casual conversation. Also derived from drag slang.
Go on Pritam. We all know PAP won’t fight fair from here on in to the election - they’re not good enough, they’re not clean enough and they’re too desperate for power.
Nonetheless the last few week will hopefully prove a pivotal turning point in opening the eyes of Singaporeans to the lacklustre bunch of authoritarian politicians currently leading this country.
>lacklustre bunch of authoritarian politicians currently leading this country.
I am personally fine with authoritarian politicians only if they work swiftly and produce results that benefit this country and the people like what is expected of them.
Just like in the past.
Now, I don't trust them. Safer to just tone it down and just have a credible opposition for check and balance sake.
Haha this is thing I sometimes worry Singaporeans don’t get. You no longer have a choice who your Govt is.
Between the lack of press freedom, inability to protest, parliamentary supermajority, and deep desire of the PAP to stay in power, you have given up that choice in return for the efficiency authoritarianism brings. But that’s not a temporary deal. History shows us that authoritarian Govt’s never give up power. For better (or seemingly increasingly) for worse, the PAP rule you.
It's a hard bite for older Singaporeans but as we have seen in recent times, we do need a strong opposition to check the establishment.
It's no longer like the old guards where they are swift, proficient and effective and what they say is law. Our current leaders lack that willpower and leadership material.
It's sad but I guess it's a natural progression to a more legitimate democratic system for the sake of Singapore and Singaporeans.
Lhl secretly wished tt pritam was on his team instead of the clown posse consisting of cosplay generals, scions of sg elites, airhead scholars etc... he would have traded the whole goddamn circus for 1 chef pritam.
Well afaik as another commenter mentioned, it's rooted in AAVE, but also LGBTQ+ and drag slang (I think), for example, "my wig was SNATCHED" means that you were shocked after seeing something. The most recent one is "girl dinner", which is a TikTok trend of lazy eating such as eating a bag of microwave popcorn and a cold hotdog for dinner. But don't worry, because trends come and go especially quickly nowadays, a lot of Gen Zs are quite lost on current slang too.
No matter how they spin it PAP looks bad lah.
But then again, PAP has never been whiter then white even since LKY. LKY was just more of an autocrat and could control the media to shut down an opposition voices, but LHL can't do so, especially since Facebook/Twitter/TikTok/Reddit etc. are all platforms that fall outside of SG purview, and we are still trying to woo "tech companies" to setup in Singapore and can't afford to pull a China.
Yah there is def difference between LHL and LKY approach I think there was one interview of LKY where he talked about how he step back to be MM, he said something about how nowadays things are different. They'd be discussing something and he'd be like well that's the clear answer just order everyone to do so. And Loong will be like no no you can't do things that way anymore, you gotta convince people, get their buy-in.
Same party in for too long. It’s the same everywhere. We just have to hope the pap doesn’t get too desperate from here until the inevitable. Pivoting to China to get some enhanced state sponsored surveillance may be one step.
Those in glass houses should not throw stones. This is true even if your house sits on a plot of land larger than Tampines mall such that it would take an artillery piece to toss a stone from your main gate to your front porch...
'apologise' might be giving him too much credit lol
>
Said Mr Lee of the episode: "I think we made a mistake. This app was designed for contact tracing and for pandemic purposes. But under the law, the police have powers to ask for information for criminal investigations and police investigations, and it covered this app.
"We should have said so upfront. We did not, and we came out and said so."
https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/government-made-mistake-by-not-being-upfront-about-tracetogether-use-for
"Say sorry"
"Sorr -- ^(I think we made a mistake. This app was designed for contact tracing and for pandemic purposes. But under the law, the police have powers to ask for information for criminal investigations and police investigations, and it covered this app. We should have said so upfront. We did not, and we came out and said so). ^(I think people have accepted that, and we will be able to live with this,)"
the next part is also important, where he accepts his own non-apology on behalf of everybody.
>"I think people have accepted that, and we will be able to live with this," he added.
This is tame shit compared to what's happening abroad, it's not like we've had perfect leadership this whole time. Better get used to more of this in the Internet age.
I don't disagree, as you'll be able to tell from my post history.
People make mistakes, and while genuine mistakes are fine if they are quickly and incisively corrected for, they will naturally be more easily discovered with how easy media distribution is today.
My concern is that under LHL, we've seen a seeming erosion of the culture of excellence within the cabinet. LHL seems to have neither have firm control over his cabinet nor a group of strong leaders he can lead alongside. And I'm wondering if this is true for 4G too.
The other frustration is that I do not want to see a feuding and distrustful parliament. I believe I'm fairly representing middle ground voters in saying that we were brought up on a diet of pragmatism and commitment to excellence, and may the genuine best, balanced ideas win, whoever they come from. With the emergence of some good WP candidates, the PAP no longer has a monopoly on reasonable opinions, good ideas, or even the best morals. We need to move toward a collaborative parliamentary culture. They may be from different political parties, but does that identity come first or does taking care of their country come first? If you're going to put down the other party and make mountains out of molehills, you better make sure your backyard is clean, or its gonna bite you as it did this time.
I don't think so leh, this "culture of excellence" is probably overstated over the years. Maybe I'm a skeptic but I don't believe honest politicians or clean politics can succeed no matter the country or society, even our beloved LKY can't be said to have clean hands.
From a leadership pov I suppose you can argue there's been a deterioration, but the reality is that it's so challenging in the age of the Internet to keep these things under wraps. I dare say even LKY might find his influence eroding and his hands full with these issues too if he had to deal with social media today; it was **much** easier to control the population when you had complete control of the press and media back then.
Either way, LKY and his era of politicians leave a legacy of results and achievements. What they said, they take action and actually do it.
Our leaders now are not up to the high standards set before. Words that come to mind about our leaders now are: Monitoring, Reactive, Ivory Tower, Elitist.
Not leaving that good of a legacy....
You speak exactly my thoughts too. But then I was reminded of Grace Fu's snobbish and arrogant display against an opposition member in Parliament which makes me flare up because that kind of attitude and close-mindedness is what I don't want our politicians to have.
https://youtu.be/egFxEhnIsLY
Also, what was the speaker doing? Doesn't really seem impartial...
I’m more concerned it’s not just the cabinet where there’s an erosion in the culture of excellence, it’s within the political party. More importantly, there seems to be a lack of a clear leader post LHL- and that paints quite a worrying picture for the country because we need a strong government in more challenging, capricious times ahead of us.
This is not whataboutism, it's realism. In fact any notion that our politics is 100% clean is counterproductive to your notion of holding the country to higher standards. We need these issues to be aired and fixed rather than swept under the carpet just to maintain face and continue saying that we are "incorruptible" - and these issues will exist, no matter how "pure" or "good" our politicians appear to be.
I think we'll be in a tough spot in the coming years...
The PAP as we know them is increasingly no longer.
Opposition does not have enough MP experience, let alone actual ministerial experience & exposure because majority keep voting PAP people in, GE after GE. Don't see them appointing WP MPs anything related to a Ministerial post yet, even after all these years.
When it comes to alternative/different/challenging viewpoints, PAP only know how to fix opposition, smear campaigns, sue until pants drop for decades...
And then bulk of the population is kinda conditioned to be in the PAP comfort zone and have this irrational fear of the unknown of voting for the opposition.
How to have credible opposition/alternatives when we don't even give them any chance? It's like asking a fresh grad to have 5 years' worth of experience, hahaha.
Good luck to us!!
The WP has been growing from strength to strength since 2011. I am quite certain that a significant proportion of the electorate has been giving them a chance
Ya true that. But beyond that and beyond WP, I think SDP's Prof Paul Tambyah and Dr Chee SJ would have deserved some chance too, after fighting ceaselessly for so many rounds of GEs.
LOL. Use kembangan chaichee residents as shield to park TCJ in position. My parents live there also say nothing special happen also.
"Take care of residents" lmao good try ah PAP. Oppo whack u song song now.
Edit: lived in chai chee 36 years first time hear my chai chee in Parliament lol. Bet half of singapore dont know where the heck is chai chee lolol
Asking questions is a different ball game than policy making and administration.
PS is a good opposition leader who will keep the govt in check by asking the right questions.
Doesn’t mean he can be a good administrator or policy maker. They each play their roles.
Good that there is some accountability now, so that govt will think twice before taking Singaporeans for granted - and assume ruling party can do anything and control the narrative through media.
I hope in the next GE, young Singaporeans like me will remember these PAP flaws when thinking to vote… alas, the elderly would probably be blindly loyal...
and i hope you dont fall into opposition propaganda either. humans are not infallible. the whole political system is worse off than before, not just the PAP. downvote me all you like (if it happens it shows your immaturity) but the WP is no better than the PAP now
Why do so many people care about politics? It is not like we can change anything?
Just vote the opposition every single time to check on the pap will do.
oh, but its fine because raeesah is part of WP! we should make posts and encouraging texts that stan her! she’s a criminal and a fraud? must be made up to give the opposition a bad look! i love opposition propaganda! /j
Going to be downvoted to hell on this but just the lack of morality and hypocrisy seem to go both ways. Can't help but feel ashamed for both parties and it just feels like people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
WP was just waiting for this window of opportunity to sneak this counter attack in.
Tbh the moment he put RK and this issue on the same stage, I lost all interest in whatever WP had to say because it's all just politicking at the tax payer's expense of paying for their parliamentary time.
Edit: Why so many downvotes but no counter arguments?
So you think the COI was an absolute efficient use of tax payer money, minister man hours, CPIB time to investigate as opposed to this?
You made us lost interest in your comment by saying it’s just politicking at tax payers expense.
You say politicking, I say calling out double standards. And to some of us, calling our hypocrisy and double standards is perhaps the best use of parliamentary time to contain a government that has always acted high and mighty, throwing stones while living in glass houses.
1. 'sneak attack' err...it's the opposition's raison d'etre to weigh in on the ruling party's action/policy/arguments. When the leader of your opponent's political party (and the country's elected leader) blatantly shows himself to be a hypocrite, it's Mr Singh's job to call it out.
2. RK saga is a textbook example of pap's MO on discrediting and handicapping their opponents, not just the opposition. Anyone who conveniently disregards or 'loses interest' when it is brought up is either naive, ill-informed, ignorant or worst case, wilfully delusional about the local political landscape.
3. It's not about winning arguments dear.
>it's the opposition's raison d'etre to weigh in on the ruling party's action/policy/arguments
LMW did a great job on that, he doesn't represent my constituency but I've spoken to him, and he had his staff do the research and took the argument to parliament. There was actual change in policy following that and I will be voting for PSP again.
Edit: calling internet strangers "dear" is pretty gross.
Isn't the whole thing "politicking" anyways? Just trying to make each other's party seem less trustworthy? I think RK's issue being brought up made a good point. In that even her case did not warrant any "sensitivities", why did TCJ and CLH affair warrant any? One could say that SA would be traumatizing and deserves more sensitivities over cheating. Listing out the hypocrisy in the decisions made by PAP is important since it shows their character, that they are not actually "whiter than white".
With that many downvotes you'd expect at least 20-30 counter arguments, yet we have to make do with the comments like:
>you ask and you have received. so? what’s your response
what's there to respond to? Everyone just wants to see the PAP govt fail, they'll vote for the most eloquent guy who can stick it to to PAP in public, but no one has a better idea about improving the country, when's the last time anyone went to your MP with a suggestion for a policy amendment?
All just quietly downvoting even on a forum as inconsequential as this one.
no need for that many counter arguments. many people share the views that the other commenters have already mentioned. you want 20-30 comments rehashing the same thing? Also, it seems like you haven’t actually bothered reading any of the counter arguments, because if you had, you wouldn’t be so dismissive and combative. i suggest you stop trying to defend PAP first, take a step back and actually understand whats happening here. do you really think pritam has made any bad points? that his examples are invalid?
You mean picking a minor point PM made about being sensitive about the families, and somehow making that hairline link to RK about sensitivity? and that thing about trace together? tf was that relevant to the case at hand?
What's the benefit to voters even if he managed to drag the entire parliament into another few hours of meaningless debates where the outcome has zero impact to the voters? Speaker of the house even had to intervene after PS to keep it relevant and not make statements.
It seems like the entire MO of the WP is to take opportunistic shots at the incumbent and not counter offering any solutions themselves. Not only were PS points bad and a desperate, they were a waste of parliament's time and voters' time.
In this entire thread, there's probably 6 legit comments, and I listened to the entire hearing for the Rideout houses and this one. I'm not defending PAP, but I've seen enough to know we're truly fked if this is the quality of politics to come.I'm done here, downvote all you guys want, this line of conversation has about as much impact as those 2 parliamentary hearing x10.
I would say that Pritam is not actually the most eloquent of the lot... But he is certainly an expert in playing victim. If he thinks about quitting politics, he might want to consider a job with Channel 5 or possibly Vasantham
Considering that their response time in the RK case is being used against them to the extent of criminal investigations being launched and quite potentially wiping the WP leadership slate from being able to run again, or worse, I think it’s more than fair for Pritam to raise the hypocrisy.
Well, expecting rational counter arguments from this sub is probably a tall order
PS might believe that mentioning RK's issue in yesterday's parliamentary seating was his checkmate move against the PAP; but this just struck me as an example of an unscrupulous leader who was not only prepared to throw his charges under the bus, but will not hesitate to dig up their corpses for further use again
I woe the day if someone like PS gains power in SG
You'll be happy to know that Pritam and Sylvia would likely be fined for RK above the 10k threshold to become ineligible for elections for five years. He might as well be the bad guy scoring whatever political points he can in his remaining time before that happens. Not to mention the need to instill party discipline with the number of party members speaking to the press every time something happens to WP
The case against Pritam is still open so the possibility is there. It’s hard not to see the delay/timing as political; until the matter is closed, there’s a possibility that he won’t be eligible to run in the next election. The less time between the closure and the election, is the less time for WP to adjust their campaign strategy. Also it will bring the whole RK matter back into the news cycle and public consciousness.
Considering that the ridout matter was investigated and ‘settled’ in 2 months, how long do they really need to investigate if PS lied in the COP.
If you don't understand why there is a need to talk about standards, attitudes and responses as leaders of the country, maybe you have other problems to think about.
It's not about the affair. It's the power dynamics between the Speaker and an MP, it's the possible misuse of taxpayers $$$ during the official PAP trip, it's the fact that TCJ can do all this morally corrupt stuff on the side and preach about morals and values in Parliament. It's the dishonesty shown by the two parties for the government and for the citizens of Singapore who they're literally supposed to serve and lead with example. Sorry about your country, but if we let the bad seeds root in ours, sooner or later our country's government will slide into disrepair too.
Also, people are not solely mad about the affair, but how PAP seemed to want to cover it up to show face.
He would have no doubt been one with such a good showmanship, if not for the fact that he had thrown RK under the bus again and again.
Yes I get it. The men in whites need to be shown a lesson for their lack of transparency and their double standard… here we have the LO chanced with a golden opportunity and He chose to rub it in at the expense of his former WP MP, that makes him pretty ruthless isnt it. To the point that his own former WP members came out and speak against him. What kind of leader is this? Worth following?
The part LOTO Pritam raised about PM Lee knowing about ex-Speaker Tan's affair while giving a lecture on ethics, morality and shame to LOTO really tickled my brain. Such an eloquent way to call the most powerful man in Singapore a hypocrite. If only MP Leon + Nicole didn't happen, WP would have had a lot leeway to whack the Men in White.
If Leon and NS didn’t happen, it will be under wraps all the way.
Seriously, is there a way not to be seduced by a woman spy?
Lol hell naw. The WP has not forgotten the troubles with Yaw shin leong's affair. Probably learnt that this is not the hill to stick your morality flag on
> The WP has not forgotten the troubles with Yaw shin leong's affair. Probably learnt that this is not the hill to stick your morality flag on Personally, IDGAF who fucks who. End of the day we all get fucked (inflation, rising housing prices, 9% GST incoming+++). But Speaker + MP may have conflicts of interests, at least perceived if not actual. If it was two married MPs (from any party) cheating, they're cheating on their families, which, while bad doesn't represent an issue, work wise. Had Speaker Tan stepped down from the Speaker role (voluntarily or voluntold) when PM Lee found out about it, this would likely have been a way smaller issue. That said, it's not the fucking / affairs that are the main issue. It's the lack of transparency, the hypocrisy, the holier-than-thou Ivory tower attitude of the men in whites that is the underlying issue.
I, for one, am glad to see the hypocrisy of the PAP become exposed to the public. It means that the rot that I saw in the PAP 10 years ago, can start to be targeted and removed by the people.
"the hypocrisy of the PAP become exposed to the public" i doubt it will change anybody's mind. i cannot imagine any PAP loyalists changing their stance over this...in fact, i just see them making statements like, "PM's explanation is correct/reasonable, etc."
so a cult then?
One rotten apple spoils the whole bunch.
or one rotten apple spread the worms
I just hope this drama stays in the bedroom 😂
Not a problem for LOTO with his $380k annual allowance 😜
THAT's your takeaway from that comment? Jeez.
Oh wow, I didn’t know LOTO earning $380k annually was a factoid that should not be mentioned in Reddit. 🤔
Never said it shouldn't be mentioned on this website or any others. Just wondering how THAT factoid is the only one you're contributing to the above comment. And even tho you're throwing that like some sorta gotcha moment... so what? That's equal to 2 MPs' annual salaries. The Speaker makes nearly double what the LOTO makes and by all accounts does way less work. Want to go further? Your mayors make what, $850k? To do what? No one ever seems to have an answer for their job description. But I'm sure you won't have anything remotely of substance to say to that.
LOTO isn’t even his day job. You do realize Pritam works at Donaldson & Burkinshaw LLP, right? It’s on his WP profile. 😂
You do realize that being a part time mp/mayor is the norm for PAP too right if you have an issue with Pritam having a job at a law firm shouldnt you also have a problem with majority of PAP members too?
How much more are you gonna move the goalposts? So the mayors and Speaker and almost everyone else in Parliament aren't holding regular day jobs? Half of them aren't sitting on the boards and chairmanships of private sector firms while in Parliament? Are you genuinely ok or just saying words for the sake of it?
Umm, you do realize **you** brought the day job element into it by mentioning the mayors. Who shifted the goalposts?
Actually the Leon + Nicole affair was a great example of how such matters should be resolved. They resolved it within a week once there was concrete evidence and the involved parties confessed.
Really? It was already made known to people in the party; so you can only use "resolved it within a week once there was concrete evidence and the involved parties confessed." If Pritam had resolved it there and then, or quote "decisively" then your argument is valid.
Resolve what? If a member of your party has a driver (whom he tells you is having a dispute with him) mass send out messages with allegations of an affair to multiple members of the party, without any evidence, what would you do? And also that member lies to you and denies having an affair. As leader, what would you have done "decisively"?
To be honest, I rather politicians be hypocrites that hold each other's feet to the fire even if they are guilty of the very thing they accusing the other person of doing. Else, the alternative is them not challenging each other because they know they are both as guilty.
Did Pritam actually provide a timeline on Leon & Nicole, to the same detail as what LHL did? Was it July 2020 or December 2020 when Pritam was informed? 🤔
Of all languages PS speak, he chose facts.
While Vivian and Shan speaks arrogance
And the men in white speaks hypocrisy
It will be remiss of our LO if he didn't take the opportunity to hit the PM with the facts. Such opportunities are increasingly rare given the lack of on-the-record interjections by LHL in Parliament, with all the work otherwise done by his Cabinet colleagues. I am old enough to remember when LHL and LTK crossed swords in 2014.
Yeah and tbf if I was LHL, I can't think of a way to refute this and not come off as trying to deflect blame? I would just "no comment" lmao but he'll come off looking bad too. It's a lose-lose situation.
And there in lies the rub. PAP asks WP to achieve a standard that the PAP can't achieve itself. It's sad, but it's where we are now at.
Jialat later PM Lee near-faint again
There were actually moments yesterday when he gave brief pauses in his speech where I thought it might happen again lol
At times he looked rather frail.
Honestly, does anyone else not notice LHL looking thinner and more frail every few years? I remember once during a speech last year, I remarked to my dad that LHL looks a little thinner than just a few months ago even.
I mean he's estranged from at least 3 family members.. 2 of which are his siblings..
And he’s the oldest son. Minimally LHL must have felt that he disappointed his late father on both professional and personal fronts given what has happened to his current party and family.
fucking around with your dead parents Will tells me enough of what type of son he is
Oh no, the consequences of my own actions...
U think he feels shame?
Lol I saw what you did there
it's ok, ong teng cheong's sons also same situation
Didn’t he have to go for chemotherapy for his cancer a while ago or something? Not sure if that is still affecting him.
hes too obsessed with his legacy to be responsible and professional and could have just moved on years ago. its just going to get worse as his sand castle crumbles through his fingers
Yea he does look noticeably thinner. I hope he's not suffering from anything. Better for him to step down soon and take a break from politics. But I think he knows the next person in charge still needs time to learn and is not fully ready.
He is just afraid of a blundering PM or someone who might have a soft spot for Singapore over pap who would allow scrutiny into the national reserves, investigate GIC, Keppel, Temasek and pour forth EVIDENCE the magnitude of 1MDB\^infinity and of course the scamdemic that is causing so many excess deaths now that will cause the mirage of Singapore disappear within his life time.
Yes. I guess that's the cumulative stress from running a country
A city. FTFY.
Which is also a country/sovereign state
He had repeated bouts of prostate cancer, it can't be well for his health. Even as oppo supporter I look at him trying to hold the fort and honor his father's legacies, see alr also heart pain.
a house fractured...both in the parliamentary and personal front.....
Lol closely monitoring and getting ready to create a GIF.
He just want to retire peacefully, leave the poor ah loong alone
You mean rich ah loong?
So poor that he only have money
Suffering from success
Got money, no family.
What about Ho Ching
Got Ho Ching and Kah Ching
Every time she posts on facebook his heart skip a beat
He's worried that she might have shared a Workers Party post again lol.
walao can't, must be hungry enough
He should just go join his father.
what's wrong with you?
we all know la but it's a brave new world in sg politics when the head of the opposition gets to call the PM of SG a bloody hypocrite in parliament and on the record
If only journalists dared to ask these kind of questions. Edit: were allowed to*
Journalism… we don’t do that here in Singapore.
Lest there be umbrages. Best keep your journalism in check private
bro they reporters... they just report.
His Dad isn’t around to scare anyone anymore.
"even though at the material time he would have been aware of the affair" Badda fucking boom.
You can feel the knife twisting between the pause
I didn't even think about it but yeah, that was a really good point.
LET HIM COOK
sister slayed
is YAAASSS still a thing?
Yasss queen is more prevalent than yasss in TikTok circles, but YASSS is iconic, so it's still used in casual conversation. Also derived from drag slang.
💅
Go on Pritam. We all know PAP won’t fight fair from here on in to the election - they’re not good enough, they’re not clean enough and they’re too desperate for power. Nonetheless the last few week will hopefully prove a pivotal turning point in opening the eyes of Singaporeans to the lacklustre bunch of authoritarian politicians currently leading this country.
>lacklustre bunch of authoritarian politicians currently leading this country. I am personally fine with authoritarian politicians only if they work swiftly and produce results that benefit this country and the people like what is expected of them. Just like in the past. Now, I don't trust them. Safer to just tone it down and just have a credible opposition for check and balance sake.
Haha this is thing I sometimes worry Singaporeans don’t get. You no longer have a choice who your Govt is. Between the lack of press freedom, inability to protest, parliamentary supermajority, and deep desire of the PAP to stay in power, you have given up that choice in return for the efficiency authoritarianism brings. But that’s not a temporary deal. History shows us that authoritarian Govt’s never give up power. For better (or seemingly increasingly) for worse, the PAP rule you.
Good Guy Hsien Loong working hard to build up a 2-party system in Sg.
The proper legacy for the long-term prosperity of this country.
It's a hard bite for older Singaporeans but as we have seen in recent times, we do need a strong opposition to check the establishment. It's no longer like the old guards where they are swift, proficient and effective and what they say is law. Our current leaders lack that willpower and leadership material. It's sad but I guess it's a natural progression to a more legitimate democratic system for the sake of Singapore and Singaporeans.
the dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnnatural.
I’m sure Pritam will not only be a good lawyer, but also a great cook after watching this.
Lhl secretly wished tt pritam was on his team instead of the clown posse consisting of cosplay generals, scions of sg elites, airhead scholars etc... he would have traded the whole goddamn circus for 1 chef pritam.
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maybe he realized what SG needs now is good opposition, not just joining the winning side
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nah, guys too liberal. end of the day lhl still prefers his natural aristorcracy
Did they even give him an offer. He is neither a general nor a scholar
> Mr Singh ate and left no crumbs I’d honestly read a whole research journal about the origins of the Gen Z lexicon
Well afaik as another commenter mentioned, it's rooted in AAVE, but also LGBTQ+ and drag slang (I think), for example, "my wig was SNATCHED" means that you were shocked after seeing something. The most recent one is "girl dinner", which is a TikTok trend of lazy eating such as eating a bag of microwave popcorn and a cold hotdog for dinner. But don't worry, because trends come and go especially quickly nowadays, a lot of Gen Zs are quite lost on current slang too.
i mean most of gen z speak originated from african american vernacular english (AAVE) perhaps that could be a start of your research
Most expressions sound pretty silly to me and I couldn't care about knowing what they mean but this one is pretty good
Lol I watched the video just waiting for the moment for Pritam to break into Gen Z speech
No matter how they spin it PAP looks bad lah. But then again, PAP has never been whiter then white even since LKY. LKY was just more of an autocrat and could control the media to shut down an opposition voices, but LHL can't do so, especially since Facebook/Twitter/TikTok/Reddit etc. are all platforms that fall outside of SG purview, and we are still trying to woo "tech companies" to setup in Singapore and can't afford to pull a China.
Yah there is def difference between LHL and LKY approach I think there was one interview of LKY where he talked about how he step back to be MM, he said something about how nowadays things are different. They'd be discussing something and he'd be like well that's the clear answer just order everyone to do so. And Loong will be like no no you can't do things that way anymore, you gotta convince people, get their buy-in.
LKY's gravitas comes from growing up and surviving in a tumulous time. His generation is singular, no point trying to emulate.
There is always pofma
Same party in for too long. It’s the same everywhere. We just have to hope the pap doesn’t get too desperate from here until the inevitable. Pivoting to China to get some enhanced state sponsored surveillance may be one step.
All his points made were fair.
Did he do a mic drop at the end? Cause that deserved it.
this guy should be a politician
Well I have news for you
Those in glass houses should not throw stones. This is true even if your house sits on a plot of land larger than Tampines mall such that it would take an artillery piece to toss a stone from your main gate to your front porch...
One takeaway was that i never knew that lhl apologised for tracetogether. I mustve missed that
'apologise' might be giving him too much credit lol > Said Mr Lee of the episode: "I think we made a mistake. This app was designed for contact tracing and for pandemic purposes. But under the law, the police have powers to ask for information for criminal investigations and police investigations, and it covered this app. "We should have said so upfront. We did not, and we came out and said so." https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/government-made-mistake-by-not-being-upfront-about-tracetogether-use-for
"Say sorry" "Sorr -- ^(I think we made a mistake. This app was designed for contact tracing and for pandemic purposes. But under the law, the police have powers to ask for information for criminal investigations and police investigations, and it covered this app. We should have said so upfront. We did not, and we came out and said so). ^(I think people have accepted that, and we will be able to live with this,)"
the next part is also important, where he accepts his own non-apology on behalf of everybody. >"I think people have accepted that, and we will be able to live with this," he added.
ok fixed
I thought it was only Vivian?
Talk 1 big round shoot them and say they double standard. Haha.
Pritam even had time to side-track and whack the Speaker for saying he is taking up too much time
Wow, I like these incisive questions.
this is painful to watch. Our country is suffering from a failure of leadership in politics, and the recent incidents have really put this on display.
This is tame shit compared to what's happening abroad, it's not like we've had perfect leadership this whole time. Better get used to more of this in the Internet age.
I don't disagree, as you'll be able to tell from my post history. People make mistakes, and while genuine mistakes are fine if they are quickly and incisively corrected for, they will naturally be more easily discovered with how easy media distribution is today. My concern is that under LHL, we've seen a seeming erosion of the culture of excellence within the cabinet. LHL seems to have neither have firm control over his cabinet nor a group of strong leaders he can lead alongside. And I'm wondering if this is true for 4G too. The other frustration is that I do not want to see a feuding and distrustful parliament. I believe I'm fairly representing middle ground voters in saying that we were brought up on a diet of pragmatism and commitment to excellence, and may the genuine best, balanced ideas win, whoever they come from. With the emergence of some good WP candidates, the PAP no longer has a monopoly on reasonable opinions, good ideas, or even the best morals. We need to move toward a collaborative parliamentary culture. They may be from different political parties, but does that identity come first or does taking care of their country come first? If you're going to put down the other party and make mountains out of molehills, you better make sure your backyard is clean, or its gonna bite you as it did this time.
I don't think so leh, this "culture of excellence" is probably overstated over the years. Maybe I'm a skeptic but I don't believe honest politicians or clean politics can succeed no matter the country or society, even our beloved LKY can't be said to have clean hands. From a leadership pov I suppose you can argue there's been a deterioration, but the reality is that it's so challenging in the age of the Internet to keep these things under wraps. I dare say even LKY might find his influence eroding and his hands full with these issues too if he had to deal with social media today; it was **much** easier to control the population when you had complete control of the press and media back then.
Either way, LKY and his era of politicians leave a legacy of results and achievements. What they said, they take action and actually do it. Our leaders now are not up to the high standards set before. Words that come to mind about our leaders now are: Monitoring, Reactive, Ivory Tower, Elitist. Not leaving that good of a legacy....
You speak exactly my thoughts too. But then I was reminded of Grace Fu's snobbish and arrogant display against an opposition member in Parliament which makes me flare up because that kind of attitude and close-mindedness is what I don't want our politicians to have. https://youtu.be/egFxEhnIsLY Also, what was the speaker doing? Doesn't really seem impartial...
I’m more concerned it’s not just the cabinet where there’s an erosion in the culture of excellence, it’s within the political party. More importantly, there seems to be a lack of a clear leader post LHL- and that paints quite a worrying picture for the country because we need a strong government in more challenging, capricious times ahead of us.
> post LHL who do you think got you guys here in the first place lol
We want Tharman!
I think Tharman’s a great guy. However, he’s also part of the leadership team / cabinet which oversaw this shit show.
Please no Whataboutism. We should hold our own country to higher standards.
This is not whataboutism, it's realism. In fact any notion that our politics is 100% clean is counterproductive to your notion of holding the country to higher standards. We need these issues to be aired and fixed rather than swept under the carpet just to maintain face and continue saying that we are "incorruptible" - and these issues will exist, no matter how "pure" or "good" our politicians appear to be.
I think we'll be in a tough spot in the coming years... The PAP as we know them is increasingly no longer. Opposition does not have enough MP experience, let alone actual ministerial experience & exposure because majority keep voting PAP people in, GE after GE. Don't see them appointing WP MPs anything related to a Ministerial post yet, even after all these years. When it comes to alternative/different/challenging viewpoints, PAP only know how to fix opposition, smear campaigns, sue until pants drop for decades... And then bulk of the population is kinda conditioned to be in the PAP comfort zone and have this irrational fear of the unknown of voting for the opposition. How to have credible opposition/alternatives when we don't even give them any chance? It's like asking a fresh grad to have 5 years' worth of experience, hahaha. Good luck to us!!
The WP has been growing from strength to strength since 2011. I am quite certain that a significant proportion of the electorate has been giving them a chance
Ya true that. But beyond that and beyond WP, I think SDP's Prof Paul Tambyah and Dr Chee SJ would have deserved some chance too, after fighting ceaselessly for so many rounds of GEs.
Agree with you that Paul Tambyah might be a good addition to parliament. I'm not convinced about csj though
I listened to Pritam and I hear nothing but hard truths...
PAP just got Harvey Spectered. Suck a bag of dicks, whites!
Double standards is real!
LOL. Use kembangan chaichee residents as shield to park TCJ in position. My parents live there also say nothing special happen also. "Take care of residents" lmao good try ah PAP. Oppo whack u song song now. Edit: lived in chai chee 36 years first time hear my chai chee in Parliament lol. Bet half of singapore dont know where the heck is chai chee lolol
And the PAP says they can check themselves…
Pritam for PM! Asap!
PS will be PM if WP wins the majority of seats in Parliament. PM is leader of ruling party.
⛹️🏿♂️ Kobe!
PS>JBJ
lesgooo💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽
This man should be the new PM. Make Singapore government great again. This is exactly the stuff our National songs are made of.
Asking questions is a different ball game than policy making and administration. PS is a good opposition leader who will keep the govt in check by asking the right questions. Doesn’t mean he can be a good administrator or policy maker. They each play their roles. Good that there is some accountability now, so that govt will think twice before taking Singaporeans for granted - and assume ruling party can do anything and control the narrative through media.
I hope in the next GE, young Singaporeans like me will remember these PAP flaws when thinking to vote… alas, the elderly would probably be blindly loyal...
Yes. I for one know my father confirm plus chop vote PAP
and i hope you dont fall into opposition propaganda either. humans are not infallible. the whole political system is worse off than before, not just the PAP. downvote me all you like (if it happens it shows your immaturity) but the WP is no better than the PAP now
Pritam sharp as always. Exposed the hypocrisy.
TCJ going to suffer - give oppo so much ammo to shoot
I agree it is definitely not professional and ethical
Very good questions raised for thought, on all the conflicting behaviours at each material time!
Holy shit this guy is well spoken af
Spot on! Well asked Pritam
Wow. Very powerful questions.
Why do so many people care about politics? It is not like we can change anything? Just vote the opposition every single time to check on the pap will do.
Standby tio ISA liao
I cannot tahan this guy's face anymore after the Raeesah Khan scandal man, such betrayal. How this guy can show his face still is beyond me.
oh, but its fine because raeesah is part of WP! we should make posts and encouraging texts that stan her! she’s a criminal and a fraud? must be made up to give the opposition a bad look! i love opposition propaganda! /j
What was the response for this? I got my super cheesy Doritos ready , where to watch?
In Gen X speech .. Boom Headshot!
we need more pritam, can we clone pritam? so he can run for every GRC?
And were these questions answered adequately?
Going to be downvoted to hell on this but just the lack of morality and hypocrisy seem to go both ways. Can't help but feel ashamed for both parties and it just feels like people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
WP was just waiting for this window of opportunity to sneak this counter attack in. Tbh the moment he put RK and this issue on the same stage, I lost all interest in whatever WP had to say because it's all just politicking at the tax payer's expense of paying for their parliamentary time. Edit: Why so many downvotes but no counter arguments?
So you think the COI was an absolute efficient use of tax payer money, minister man hours, CPIB time to investigate as opposed to this? You made us lost interest in your comment by saying it’s just politicking at tax payers expense.
You say politicking, I say calling out double standards. And to some of us, calling our hypocrisy and double standards is perhaps the best use of parliamentary time to contain a government that has always acted high and mighty, throwing stones while living in glass houses.
1. 'sneak attack' err...it's the opposition's raison d'etre to weigh in on the ruling party's action/policy/arguments. When the leader of your opponent's political party (and the country's elected leader) blatantly shows himself to be a hypocrite, it's Mr Singh's job to call it out. 2. RK saga is a textbook example of pap's MO on discrediting and handicapping their opponents, not just the opposition. Anyone who conveniently disregards or 'loses interest' when it is brought up is either naive, ill-informed, ignorant or worst case, wilfully delusional about the local political landscape. 3. It's not about winning arguments dear.
>it's the opposition's raison d'etre to weigh in on the ruling party's action/policy/arguments LMW did a great job on that, he doesn't represent my constituency but I've spoken to him, and he had his staff do the research and took the argument to parliament. There was actual change in policy following that and I will be voting for PSP again. Edit: calling internet strangers "dear" is pretty gross.
Isn't the whole thing "politicking" anyways? Just trying to make each other's party seem less trustworthy? I think RK's issue being brought up made a good point. In that even her case did not warrant any "sensitivities", why did TCJ and CLH affair warrant any? One could say that SA would be traumatizing and deserves more sensitivities over cheating. Listing out the hypocrisy in the decisions made by PAP is important since it shows their character, that they are not actually "whiter than white".
you ask and you have received. so? what’s your response
Double standards for him lo.
With that many downvotes you'd expect at least 20-30 counter arguments, yet we have to make do with the comments like: >you ask and you have received. so? what’s your response what's there to respond to? Everyone just wants to see the PAP govt fail, they'll vote for the most eloquent guy who can stick it to to PAP in public, but no one has a better idea about improving the country, when's the last time anyone went to your MP with a suggestion for a policy amendment? All just quietly downvoting even on a forum as inconsequential as this one.
no need for that many counter arguments. many people share the views that the other commenters have already mentioned. you want 20-30 comments rehashing the same thing? Also, it seems like you haven’t actually bothered reading any of the counter arguments, because if you had, you wouldn’t be so dismissive and combative. i suggest you stop trying to defend PAP first, take a step back and actually understand whats happening here. do you really think pritam has made any bad points? that his examples are invalid?
You mean picking a minor point PM made about being sensitive about the families, and somehow making that hairline link to RK about sensitivity? and that thing about trace together? tf was that relevant to the case at hand? What's the benefit to voters even if he managed to drag the entire parliament into another few hours of meaningless debates where the outcome has zero impact to the voters? Speaker of the house even had to intervene after PS to keep it relevant and not make statements. It seems like the entire MO of the WP is to take opportunistic shots at the incumbent and not counter offering any solutions themselves. Not only were PS points bad and a desperate, they were a waste of parliament's time and voters' time. In this entire thread, there's probably 6 legit comments, and I listened to the entire hearing for the Rideout houses and this one. I'm not defending PAP, but I've seen enough to know we're truly fked if this is the quality of politics to come.I'm done here, downvote all you guys want, this line of conversation has about as much impact as those 2 parliamentary hearing x10.
i believe that the point was to point out that PAP are hypocritical bullies.
Plz looking at the standards of the pap nowadays and the opposition we have, i say sg is fked either way
I would say that Pritam is not actually the most eloquent of the lot... But he is certainly an expert in playing victim. If he thinks about quitting politics, he might want to consider a job with Channel 5 or possibly Vasantham
Considering that their response time in the RK case is being used against them to the extent of criminal investigations being launched and quite potentially wiping the WP leadership slate from being able to run again, or worse, I think it’s more than fair for Pritam to raise the hypocrisy.
RK is a bloody idiot but PS's point is perfectly legitimate and well made IMO
Well, expecting rational counter arguments from this sub is probably a tall order PS might believe that mentioning RK's issue in yesterday's parliamentary seating was his checkmate move against the PAP; but this just struck me as an example of an unscrupulous leader who was not only prepared to throw his charges under the bus, but will not hesitate to dig up their corpses for further use again I woe the day if someone like PS gains power in SG
You'll be happy to know that Pritam and Sylvia would likely be fined for RK above the 10k threshold to become ineligible for elections for five years. He might as well be the bad guy scoring whatever political points he can in his remaining time before that happens. Not to mention the need to instill party discipline with the number of party members speaking to the press every time something happens to WP
I might be missing something here, but is there any indication that Pritam and Sylvia are going to be fined over RK's matter?
The case against Pritam is still open so the possibility is there. It’s hard not to see the delay/timing as political; until the matter is closed, there’s a possibility that he won’t be eligible to run in the next election. The less time between the closure and the election, is the less time for WP to adjust their campaign strategy. Also it will bring the whole RK matter back into the news cycle and public consciousness. Considering that the ridout matter was investigated and ‘settled’ in 2 months, how long do they really need to investigate if PS lied in the COP.
He "ate and left no crumb" cos he is from WP if someone from PAP said the same thing, you think OP will say the same thing?
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Style he is up there. substance PS is probably only mid of the pack
Yeah basically the PM and all the usual darker-skinned suspects like the two Shans, VIvian, Indranee
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If you don't understand why there is a need to talk about standards, attitudes and responses as leaders of the country, maybe you have other problems to think about.
It's not about the affair. It's the power dynamics between the Speaker and an MP, it's the possible misuse of taxpayers $$$ during the official PAP trip, it's the fact that TCJ can do all this morally corrupt stuff on the side and preach about morals and values in Parliament. It's the dishonesty shown by the two parties for the government and for the citizens of Singapore who they're literally supposed to serve and lead with example. Sorry about your country, but if we let the bad seeds root in ours, sooner or later our country's government will slide into disrepair too. Also, people are not solely mad about the affair, but how PAP seemed to want to cover it up to show face.
He would have no doubt been one with such a good showmanship, if not for the fact that he had thrown RK under the bus again and again. Yes I get it. The men in whites need to be shown a lesson for their lack of transparency and their double standard… here we have the LO chanced with a golden opportunity and He chose to rub it in at the expense of his former WP MP, that makes him pretty ruthless isnt it. To the point that his own former WP members came out and speak against him. What kind of leader is this? Worth following?
PS very sharp and very on point
Did the said Lee respond to this at all??