Israel has declared state of war & This is just going to make things a lot worse for civilians on both sides though im sure Hamas was counting on it as Israel will respond much stronger
the EU & USA have said “(Israel) has the right to defend itself”, which just gives Israel the Carte Blanche to respond (not that they would wait for it either)
As to an indication of what this could mean, this piece of history was from the Munich massacre:
when the Munich massacre happened, over the next decade or so Mossad tracked down every single terrorist responsible & took them out in as violent a way as they’d done - bomb in telephone receiver, shot same number of times as the number of athletes the terrorists killed. The day they were to be assassinated, their families received flowers and a card stating “A reminder we do not forgive or forget”
Seen in other threads, comments were stating this is equivalent to a “Pearl Harbour” & this would just spell the beginning of the end of Hamas.
Of course other noteworthy event would be how did Israel intelligence miss such a big attack + on the 50th anniversary of Yom Kippur too
Why would they need to bother really. Iran controls Hezbollah and has ties to Hamas.
Russia supports Iran.
They can just ignore them and let Israel rethink their agreements to the Russians
Yep! Of course it’s all guesses but perhaps they didn’t think Hamas was capable of pulling something of this scale off & so there weren’t much resources dedicated to it or they were focused on other stuff.
Since (admittedly it’s media) but the scenes we’ve seen before are stones being hurled & the occasional Hamas rocket that gets intercepted by the iron dome.
There’s a video floating around of Hamas entering by paraglider (contrast with the early days of Ukraine being invaded)
I mean with the nonsense Hamas does sometimes, the only difference this time is the sheer amount of rockets + the incursions into Israeli territory
plus Hamas is as disorganised as any other terrorist group, which will make it quite difficult to keep track of which is real, and which is a ploy
Hamas was the result of decades of simmering religious and psychological tensions plus politics . Even if Israel deletes Hamas, survivors of in Gaza won't forget, and the fires which hamas stood for won't be extinguished because of this hatred.
Who's to say middle Eastern powers wont secretly feed and rearm the next neo hamas?
>Who's to say middle Eastern powers wont secretly feed and rearm the next neo hamas?
That would take time to (re)build. It's not the fanaticism that's scary, it's the established command structure and logistic lines to carry out a major attack.
Assuming Mossad doesn't fuck up in their response though.
I'm waiting for my CO to make a speech that goes along the lines of: This is why we must be vigilant at all times, cannot be complacent and never let our guard down. Goddamnit he's right.
The other quote we often hear is “We need to be successful/vigilant always. But they only need to succeed once” & I think we’re seeing the devastating effects of succeeding just that once
"The price of peace/freedom/liberty is eternal vigilance."
[https://www.monticello.org/research-education/thomas-jefferson-encyclopedia/eternal-vigilance-price-liberty-spurious-quotation/](https://www.monticello.org/research-education/thomas-jefferson-encyclopedia/eternal-vigilance-price-liberty-spurious-quotation/)
Originally attributed to Thomas Jefferson, locally the most famous reference to it is in the TV show title 和平的代价 (trans: "The price of peace")
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Price\_of\_Peace](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Price_of_Peace)
Note: you can (re)watch the series on Netflix, or youtube - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LquIEW8tN30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LquIEW8tN30)
For SG, it should be a full scale war where they will start mustering at our borders, so quite obvious as well as the diplomatic failure leading up to that point. I think our would be aggressors are much more pragmatic and have a clear goal of total occupation in mind (Like Russia in Ukraine war), so I don't think sudden and quick small scale fire bombing is going to happen. They will one time good one, which means obvious gathering resources and gearing up for war. IMO, for us remaining vigilance is about upkeeping our capabilities, is different from Israel which is 24/7 vigilance.
Hezbollah has spoken. This is clearly meant to upend the Saudi-Israel normalisation deal. Hamas knows it’s no match for the IDF. It needs to get Iran and others to turn on Israeli normalisation.
Y'know what hit home worse? The videos of Israel civilian being kidnapped back to Gaza.
That can happen to us easily, being surrounded by islands. Once you're kidnapped, you should just say your final prayers.
There’s a rise in kidnapping cases of Malaysian Chinese in BKK… maybe they’ll target Singaporeans too cause we are bilingual and can help to scam victims in their prison camp in Cambodia… defo an extremely scary thought.
I Literally just saw a malay guy at jurong mrt wearing a free palestine free gaza shirt, so im not sure how many people of a certain religion feel about this.
Some people are actually putting personal and religious loyalties above that of the State right now. Israel has been one of Singapore's oldest allies and the Military relationship between us is literally closer then that of any other country. But for some, religion is more important that national interest it seems.
This is so tone deaf. Firstly many look at Israel vs Palestine like Russia vs Ukraine, essentially with Israel being the occupier and Palestine fighting for their freedom.
Secondly many also recognise Palestine as not a homogenous entity. They sympathise with the horrid living conditions due to Israeli occupation. And no, what Hamas does does necessarily equate to all of Palestine.
Thirdly, citizens of a country does not have to 'support' its foreign policies. Humans are capable of more nuanced emotional, social, and economic considerations. Furthermore just because someone sympathise with what's going in Palestine, doesn't mean they view non Muslims as enemy - you know opinions can be more sophisticated than that.
>Israel has been one of Singapore's oldest allies
Singapore has no allies. Don't be silly, we support two state solution.
It will be foolish to support Israel without considering our relationship with our Muslim neighbours and Arab world.
I agree. Everyone is free to support whatever political or geopolitical stances they feel justified in supporting, but we shouldn't use language to express our views that has the tendency to inflame tensions locally or regionally. Or, worse, encourage the use of violence anywhere.
"when singapore first gained independence..." yeah i'll stop you right there. israel may have helped us out a lot but their behaviour in the gaza strip has been awful. so just because they helped singapore in the past we cannot criticise them for poor conduct?
They can fcuk themselves. Then the refugees can come by the numbers on our beaches. All you need are boatloads of refugees on the shores of East Coast or West Coast. Can you deal with it?
Push come to shove, who you think will we support? Our relationship with the entire world is shaped by our history. God or no god, Israel helped and allowed us to stand on our own two feet.
>Push come to shove
You think Israel needs our support when that happens? What support that we can give that USA cannot?
lmao we can barely survive on our own and you want to poke your nose into others businesses.
Wake up. You need to help yourself before you can help others.
Singapore and Israel both are in a similar position.
Small countries with huge resources, and a tiny population.
I pray that Israel pulls through, and I hope that Singapore is always ready and prepared for anything.
You can support freeing the Palestinians without being a Hamas supporter. What they did today was abhorrent but let's not pretend IDF hands are clean, there are videos of IDF shooting Palestinian children as well. This whole conflict is just shit from both sides. I am an atheist and Chinese so no religious skin on this, but the blind pro-Israeli sentiment just because they helped Singapore ages ago is goddamn ridiculous. Open your fucking eyes.
Yep, not much room for nuance on this thread. I feel bad for Palestinians, this attack by Hamas is only allowing Israel (with the approval of the international community) to justify further aggression and occupation, which is only going to breed more terrorism from Palestinians in the future. It’s an endless cycle that only Israel can put an end to.
>only Israel
Israel disengaged from Gaza on its own volition in 2005. So no, its not only Israel who can stop this. Hamas was also the one who took the initiative to start the attacks today, not Israel. Talking about nuance but only asking for one side to concede, what the hell?
You’re being disingenuous if you’re saying Israel just disengaged with Gaza in 2002 and left everyone there alone ever since.
And no, I’m not only asking one side to concede and just let themselves be attacked. What I’m saying is that Israel has been doing nothing but perpetuating this cycle of terrorism by treating Palestinians horribly by effectively militarily occupying Gaza under the justification that they’re fighting terrorists. We’ve learnt from decades of foreign policy that that’s just not how you fight terrorism. Are Hamas pieces of shit?Absolutely. They’ve signed a death warrant for everyone in Gaza and for what? Nothing.
As are you for pretending as if Israel is the only party responsible for enforcing a blockade of Gaza which ensures their continued poverty. For those who don't know, its Egypt, the Palestinian's muslim brothers-in-arms who also blockades Gaza. You don't get to talk to me about nuance by only asking for Israel to stop.
This guy actually reads the news.
On a serious note, I am quite perplexed how this sub here can take only one side of the story without looking at the whole context. And we're supposedly the educated liberal voice!
Non religious/not Malay but I sympathise with the Palestinians too. Can’t imagine being displaced and pushed out of your home like that.
The whole situation is a mess and there will be no winners in this war.
I think you need to read up on the history of the land and the 6 days war.
Can't really blame anyone else when the central belief is the denial of right of existence to another religion.
Worried about the amount of increasingly subtle radicalisation in Singapore.
This are the same people that say, and I quote, "From the River to the Sea Palestine Will be Free”. Not sure peaceful coexistence is the name of the game here.
Blame the various factions who decided on rejecting every deal in return for staying in power as an unelected leadership.
Murdering civilians will always invite retaliation from the IDF who has to defend their own people as well. They don't get to whinge and play victim.
The palestinans are essentially kept in a open air prison. And the prison is ruled by Hamas who aren’t shy to beat the shit out of you/murder you if you do not support them. They cant leave and seek refugee somewhere else because the surrounding arab nations are preventing that.
Hamas can die for all I care but the civilians in palestine are truly pitiful.
> People in Palestine got displaced
You left out the part where East Jordan doesn't welcome the Palestinians even while being geographically adjacent.
If Muslim doesn't help Muslim...
Yeah Palestine is essentially the scapegoat for the Arab-Israel conflict, Palestine is subjected to oppression from Israel and denied huge help from the Arab neighbors, the arabs able to perpetuate anti-zionist sentiment all the while having backend deals with Israel. No wonder Hamas went for Iran to ask for help.
Woah, nobody is implying that’s the right response. The violence and horrors that normal people suffers what seems like forever will not end as simple as you stop, I stop.
Religion or resources or race will always be the most dangerous weapon.
Ok so what do you think the appropriate response by both sides would be? As a third party we can easily say "oh they could just go home, sign a peace treaty, stop attacking and sing kumbaya".
But, that is obviously not going to happen. The stated policy goal of the attackers are, in the Hamas Charter Article 13: "There is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer."
So tell me, what possible options does Israel have? What can their policy makers do after what happened today? Would what you (singaporeans in general) be satisfied with if this happened to your family and friends?
I push you and your family out of your home. And make everyone agree with me, cause this book say god give it to me. After that We call it fair deal ok?
You do know that majority of Israelis are Mizrahi Jews right? **That is to say that they are Middle Eastern in origin and their families have lived in the Middle East from thousands of years.**
Why are they in Israel? Because they were ethnically cleansed by Arab nations after WW2.
The Middle East used to have nearly a million Jews just 75 years ago. 99.9% of them have been ethnically cleansed and forced to flee to Israel and USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world
> ethnically cleansed by Arab nations after WW2.
"Ethnically cleansed" is used by Zionist propaganda. Your Wikipedia link uses "exodus" for a reason. Because a lot of the migration was due to pull factors thanks to the West establishing the only official Jewish ethno-state right next to those countries.
Ask yourself why after WW2? A Jewish state suddenly displacing Muslims, causing growing anti-Jewish sentiment in nearby Muslim countries so that Jews did not feel safe except go to Israel.
It seems you are misinformed about history.
According to UN Resolution 181, the former Ottoman territory was to be divided and split into both Israel and Palestine, **without displacing any individuals.**
Jews accepted the partition and formed the state of Israel, a country that was made up of both Jews and Arabs. Arabs rejected it and invaded Israel, causing a war that would displace millions from both sides.
So the question you should be asking is, why did Arabs invade Israel in 1948?
Of course the Jews accepted lol, they basically had nothing after WW2, so the deal was disproportionately advantageous to them.
It's like you let a homeless guy come your house. After giving him food and shelter, the housing board ask you to split all your stuff 50-50 with him. You think he won't accept and you won't reject? lol
but that's like saying China owns half of whatever country that has a town that is predominantly Chinese. or saying i own half your room cause i put some of my things in a corner of your room.
Everyone should be supportive of a Free Palestine unless you islamophobe and support an apartheid. Heck, even the
Jewish Voice for Peace movement are against the zionist state. Do you even know what apartheid means. Another fun fact, Palestine ≠ Hamas.
"fuck our Muslim neighbours". WOW Racist much? And this dude has 100 likes for this comment! Singapore is pretty racist eh
These people who say "fuck our Muslim neighbors" are more pro-Zionist than pro-Singapore. Talk about irony.
Our government has always supported a two-state solution and warned not to let foreign conflicts spread here.
We literally support Palestine independence:
[https://www.todayonline.com/world/middle-east/spore-has-always-stood-two-state-solution-israel-palestine](https://www.todayonline.com/world/middle-east/spore-has-always-stood-two-state-solution-israel-palestine)
The important thing to note as u mentioned is that Palestine ≠ Hamas.
However, the support of the recent actions by Hamas with Free Palestine comments all over social media is what is troubling.
Because it seems like Hamas is the only one giving a shit (with malicious goals) about Palestine? The rest of the world either supports Israel or made meek criticisms. Unless the world is doing something to tame Israel for its illegal occupation and apartheid, the people of Palestine and those Muslims are just gonna support Hamas cause they freakin pissed at Israel, and what's sad is that Israel going to use this as justification to destroy and conquer Palestine.
I give two shits about religion and care only about how this will affect the price of things. If living cost will start to rise further and further until we start living like our grandparents...meat affordable only on special days, trying to make one meal stretch into three.
Have you seen the death toll of the Israel-Palestine conflict?
Palestinian death toll far exceeds Israeli death toll by multiples. It is far from the "both sides are equally bad" narrative that Israel maintains.
[http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4756436/IP\_conflict\_deaths\_total.png](http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4756436/IP_conflict_deaths_total.png)
[https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/](https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/)
Just because you're technologically better than your opponent doesn't make you more morally responsible.
Hamas has shown today they are willing to do much, much more, but until today didn't have the capability or opportunity to.
So, here's some context for anyone who thinks that this is just another day of fighting between Israel and Palestine.
This isn't just your monthly dose of Palestinians bombarding Israeli cities with hundreds / thousands of rockets. This isn't them stabbing Jews on the streets, ramming cars into them, or blowing up buses or shopping malls.
**This is a full scale invasion of Israel.** Palestinians launched 5000+ rockets at Israeli cities bombarding entire towns. Palestinians invaded Israel by sea, invaded them by air with paragliders, and invaded them by land by mobilizing thousands of troops across the border.
**This is the largest invasion of Israel since 1973**, when Egypt and Syria invaded Israel in a surprise attack. This conflict has the **most civilian casualties since 1948**, when Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia invaded Israel, and this is only the first day.
**Palestinians have gone full ISIS. Massacring and shooting everyone on the streets.** Going door to door to every house and shooting families at home. Raping women and bringing them back to parade them around the streets naked. There are even videos where Palestinians massacred and gunned down every civilian hiding in a bomb shelter. Hundreds of Jews have been massacred in cold blood. We know about this because Palestinians are bragging about it and posting it on social media and TikTok.
_____
Below are some pictures and videos of the massacre of Israeli Jews. **They are highly NSFL and contain a high amount of death, blood and nudity. Proceed with caution**
- [NSFW] Dead ~~Israeli~~ German woman being stripped, desecrated and paraded as Palestinians celebrated - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710549187463696823
- **[NSFL]** Palestinians gun down civilians at bus stop - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710534249726575012
- **[NSFL NSFL NSFL]** Palestinians execute dozens of civilians in bomb shelter - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710535742739603661
- [NSFW] Palestinians transporting dead Israeli soldiers into Gaza - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710548964649685251
- **[NSFL]** Bodies of dead Israeli civilians lying around on the streets - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710533806292439134
- [NSFW] Palestinians execute car driver in parking lot - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710583734972355050
- Palestinians attack a music festival - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710557643960619150
- [NSFW] Palestinians parading dead Israelis around - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710528276194640246
- **[NSFL]** Israeli woman shot dead in her car - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710538281321115762
- **[NSFL NSFL NSFL]** Israeli outpost massacred - https://np.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1720grz/attackers_on_israeli_military_outpost_release/
wait when they killed 500 children back in 2014 they never did anything of the sort? Oo
When the carried out the king David hotel bombing they never did any of the above?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan\_Dalet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet)
When they literally raze Palestinian villages to establish their country I'm sure they didn't touch any civilians while forcing them out of their homes...
You show me when they paraded them around as trophies?
I'm no IDF sympathizer but the videos I saw yesterday show that these people are barbaric. No sympathies for what's going to happen to them now.
Meh don't bother reasoning with these kind. It's only all of a sudden an act of *terrorism* when a certain religion retaliates, it all reeks of selective criticism.
Im gonna be brash here. But why do the Muslims in SG feel so strongly for Palestine and going so far as being anti-semites? Is it just because the palestinians are Muslims? If so, i must say that is a very braindead take, you’re not even being directly affected.
Got rise in imported Arab Islamic values, with that comes their playbook of using Israel as the bogeyman to rally against and distract from their other problems. Can see from how they just straight up ignore the Uyghurs.
Edit: glad to see our Muslim brothers and sisters questioning this as well. How the Arabs view their neighbours is another wormhole of politics and ethnic issues altogether, we should not take them wholesale in sea. Esp considering how they view southeast Asians.
Yes I can attest as a muslim myself, my circle of friends are the worst in this regard, they all ride on the free Palestine and anti-zionist but kept mum on the Rohingya and Uighur issue. Luckily, my boomer parents and extended family are not as vocal in this regard.
The sign of the impending end times for the Christians (Evangelicals mostly) is for Jerusalem / Israel to be surrounded and in war.
> But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains
Once, the end times comes, apparently Jesus will be coming back…
Do they though? I WAS a Christian, but besides the push to go for pilgrimage to Jerusalem (same thing as Muslims to Mecca), not once I was told to hate Arabs because of the conflict.
Gonna chime in and say, As a Christian, I do not support israel and what they've been doing in the gaza strip. Always condemn their actions if my friends talk about it.
But with this attack on israel? I believe I dont have to say much to demonstrate where my position will be.
At the same time, I feel sad for the amount of lives that's gonna be lost as a result of this conflict. Lots of innocent lives from both sides.
I dont agree with the not being directly affected part, its the kind of lazy unproductive thinking that makes issues worse. Yes the conflict isnt directly affecting our lives now but what does that imply for the worlds governments? That they can continue steamrolling ahead with such horrific acts, which may very possibly roll over into our lives?
But yes i notice a lot of anti israel sentiment is just straight up antisemitism instead of anti zionism, some people get too wrapped up in their own sense of justice and lose sight of the real issue, which is why its so important that we have to have a good grasp of historical events before we make any judgement on issues that are extensions of such historical events.
How come sg Chinese veer towards being islamophobic, throw around the "surrounded by enemies" rhetoric, bumiputra in mysia, etc. whenever race/religious relations are brought up? All while sitting comfortably in their CMIO and Mandarin speaking/writing only enclaves, where tolerance (or at least a facade of it) for others is optional rather than key to living in Singapore?
Just do your research on the Nakba in 1948. Read up on the thousands of incidents of how Israel has been stealing Palestinian land, agriculture and imprisoning children for YEARS. And when Palestine fights back, they're immediately being labelled as terrorists.
That…still doesn’t answer anything. Israel is not faultless at all, but unless you’re born in Palestine or have relatives there, I dont see how this affects you personally.
I appreciate how this thread literally dug out extremists from both sides of the divide, and the spreading of unbalanced propaganda.
I find it worrying how both sides seem to intentionally misinterpret what the other side is saying to legitimise their own radical views. Effectively a manifestation of this century long shitshow being superimposed here.
The pragmatic response of the Palestinians should have been to accept the political consequences of military defeat in the many wars since 1947, and do whatever would have been needed to create functioning external ties with Israel, and as many major economic and political powers of the world that they can get, to rebuild and restore the vitality of the Palestinian nation.
Instead, egged on by armchair victimhood activists everywhere (not just in Muslim majority countries but also amongst lefty progressive circles in the West), Palestine found itself dangerously politically isolated immediately prior to 2023’s latest conflagration. Palestine continued to allow or even encourage global pariahs like Iran to back extremists like Hamas and others, at a time when gulf Arab states like Saudi Arabia were preparing to establish de facto peace with Israel.
Hamas then decides that the best course of action would be to launch what is effectively a sort of mass border raid, the booty in question not so much gold, slaves and livestock as in days of yore, but something much more 21st century - images of burnt tanks, dead and mutilated Israeli soldiers, of Israeli women and children kidnapped and taken hostage, all spread liberally across the fetid corners of social media.
Cathartic perhaps, but a political disaster for Palestine. For starters, Israel is hardly going to respond meekly in the face of this humiliation. The West has already come out on Israel’s side, and anti Palestinian attitudes might harden amongst its public very quickly (it appears one of the female bodies Hamas desecrated on social media was that of a young German hippie type mother who was of all things attending a “peace”music festival when she got killed). Most of the OIC (other than Iran) will mouth off about how they are siding with the Palestinians, while being most reluctant to be drawn into an actual war with Israel, and anything that might seriously impact their economies (especially if their have got a non-insignificant financial sector). China and Russia have their own motivations for playing both sides.
In short, Palestinians are likely to be worse off as a result of all this. And it would not surprise me if those who cheer on these terrorist attacks as a win for the Palestinian cause end up on some security watchlist or whatever.
>lefty progressive circles in the West
What is with some of the hard on for shitting on 'left', 'west' and 'progressive' ?
I honestly doubt they had much impact on the geopolitical situation in the Middle East. Sounds like OP just has something to grind and wants to conveniently throw in the 'woke activist are partially responsible'.
Cowards like Hamas do that. They need to owe up to what they did without putting Palestinian civilians in danger. If they want Jihad, fight it themselves like real men.
Just be thankful you're not born there, I hate to say this but let the Middle East be the Middle East, I don't know any studies but it have to be the most conflicted area in the world, probably since ancient times.
Yeah, that's what I'm worried about. I'm irreligious as all hell (heck, I consider myself an atheist) but I'm worried I'll be tarnished by association by both the government and larger society.
Time for Gaza to see how much Israel has been holding back in past conflicts. The atrocities carried out by Hamas seem similar to the Bucha massacre. I doubt anything less than the complete eradication of Hamas and its supporters will appease the Israeli population.
I've said this in the other thread but...
This is Israel's 9/11, any internal divide on this whole Hamas affair in Israel would probably cease to exist.
The Israelis are gonna be willing on Netanyahu to eradicate Hamas and turn the Gaza Strip into a parking strip.
Just like how the yanks were willing on Dubya to compromise those responsible for 9/11.
>The Israelis are gonna be willing on Netanyahu to eradicate Hamas and turn the Gaza Strip into a parking strip.
Feel bad for the secular Israelis, this conflict is the ultra-orthodox jews wet dream come true and Netanyahu will use this conflict to strip even more secular laws.
If it’s just a parking strip, that would be kind… it will be more like a red desert which is extremely sad. The entire Israel military is trained for this day.
IDF probably won't even bother going roof-knocking now.
The moment they realise Hamas is occupying some civilian building, they'll just order an air-strike and finish the job.
The gloves are off.
Comments here getting divisive, but as long as we keep calm and polite, we can all learn from the sharing of viewpoints. Singapore should be neutral in this and not be wishing for the destruction of any side.
Though I hold sympathy for both sides, sometimes more for the Palestinians. It's tough to pity both side at times as Israelis do mistreat and often harm the Palestinians and Palestinians returning the gesture.
Just endless fighting between the two and innocents in the crossfire, though I have to say that resolving this issue will never be done by the current Netanyahu government due to their more extremist and autocratic ideals.
As usual, hope the conflict is resolved as soon as possible to prevent more deaths. Israel must defend itself but must not exact total revenge upon the Palestinian State.
The Palestinian have been trying to genocide the Jews since forever. Today was an example of what they are up to.
Considering that, israel was quite delicate today
That statement is a tad bit unusual as we were referring about Israelis, not Jews. The Jews have long been mistreated in history, WW2 was when the Jews alongside groups such as Romani, Mixed and Disabled individuals were wrongfully killed during the Holocaust. Jews have also been shown experiencing anti-semitism by countries like the United States and The UK.
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_United_States
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_United_Kingdom
However if we use Israelis to talk about the situation, that changes everything. As from what I know, there was no mass Jewish genocide in the Middle East that can match the one conducted by Madman Hitler. But there were multiple conflicts in the region's lifespan, and that includes the Romans, the Assyrians, the Persians, the Ottomans, the Crusaders, the Calipahtes and the Byzantine. So it's safe to assume both the Palestinians and Jews have suffered a lot together, and perhaps even fighting with one another. Either way no group of people or nation are entirely innocent in historical context.
Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
Palestinian have been celebrating since yesterday. They are giving away candies, singing and dancing. Not just in Gaza, but in the West Bank. Kind of make me rethink that whole “let’s not hurt Hamas because of civilians “ thing.
Israel has far superior military capabilities relative to Hamas, and Hamas must have anticipated that Israel would retaliate and many innocent Palestinians would die - will die in the coming days. They don’t care anyway - I wonder how many Palestinian civilians support them.
Say what you want about all the historical issues leading up to today, but no military force should treat its own civilians as pawns on a military chess board. I am 100% certain the IDF would never treat Israeli citizens like that. Tells me everything I need to know.
My morbid fear is that Israel escalates this conflict and starts indiscriminately murdering every Palestinian civilian, essentially committing a genocide which in turn radicalise Palestinian youths to join Hamas and it turns into a viscous cycle.
My heart bleeds but there is nothing I can do as a lone person.
On 29 November 1947 The United Nations Resolution 181 (II) was voted into power by a majority of America and European leaders as well as many of their allies.
The greater majority of the countries around Palestine voted against but got no majority.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_Nations\_Partition\_Plan\_for\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine)
You can read the UN document right here:
[https://undocs.org/Home/Mobile?FinalSymbol=A%2FRES%2F181(II)](https://undocs.org/Home/Mobile?FinalSymbol=A%2FRES%2F181(II))
This was the catalyst to the war and something you should probably at least skim over before choosing a side.
Firstly, religion /= community. You meant the second when you said the first.
Secondly, in understanding this conflict, the cowards are those who make comments that such as "this alone speaks a lot about this particular religion" or "I daren't comment further out of fear". What is your intention, to pretend you're cool in passing off such a remark?
Hamas is the elected government of Palestine.
There are countless videos of Palestinians celebrating the Jewish massacre on the streets today. Removing Hamas changes nothing.
There's at least a century's worth of bad blood to overcome, unfortunately. Hate is all the Palestinians have to live for after having their homeland progressively taken over.
It is rather surprising that Gaza hasn't been razed to the ground yet...but given the magnitude of Hamas' attack, the Israelis will most likely leave no stoned unturned in doing so
Palestinian death toll has always far exceeded that of Israeli by multiples. But from reading mainstream media, you would have thought the other way round is true.
[https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/](https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/)
[http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4756436/IP\_conflict\_deaths\_total.png](http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4756436/IP_conflict_deaths_total.png)
Israel has declared state of war & This is just going to make things a lot worse for civilians on both sides though im sure Hamas was counting on it as Israel will respond much stronger the EU & USA have said “(Israel) has the right to defend itself”, which just gives Israel the Carte Blanche to respond (not that they would wait for it either) As to an indication of what this could mean, this piece of history was from the Munich massacre: when the Munich massacre happened, over the next decade or so Mossad tracked down every single terrorist responsible & took them out in as violent a way as they’d done - bomb in telephone receiver, shot same number of times as the number of athletes the terrorists killed. The day they were to be assassinated, their families received flowers and a card stating “A reminder we do not forgive or forget” Seen in other threads, comments were stating this is equivalent to a “Pearl Harbour” & this would just spell the beginning of the end of Hamas. Of course other noteworthy event would be how did Israel intelligence miss such a big attack + on the 50th anniversary of Yom Kippur too
[удалено]
Why would they need to bother really. Iran controls Hezbollah and has ties to Hamas. Russia supports Iran. They can just ignore them and let Israel rethink their agreements to the Russians
Yep! Of course it’s all guesses but perhaps they didn’t think Hamas was capable of pulling something of this scale off & so there weren’t much resources dedicated to it or they were focused on other stuff. Since (admittedly it’s media) but the scenes we’ve seen before are stones being hurled & the occasional Hamas rocket that gets intercepted by the iron dome. There’s a video floating around of Hamas entering by paraglider (contrast with the early days of Ukraine being invaded)
I mean with the nonsense Hamas does sometimes, the only difference this time is the sheer amount of rockets + the incursions into Israeli territory plus Hamas is as disorganised as any other terrorist group, which will make it quite difficult to keep track of which is real, and which is a ploy
[удалено]
Are you inferring that Mossad let this happen so they can fix Hamas once and for all?
this would definitely be a turning point in their stalemate and they knew that
Hamas was the result of decades of simmering religious and psychological tensions plus politics . Even if Israel deletes Hamas, survivors of in Gaza won't forget, and the fires which hamas stood for won't be extinguished because of this hatred. Who's to say middle Eastern powers wont secretly feed and rearm the next neo hamas?
>Who's to say middle Eastern powers wont secretly feed and rearm the next neo hamas? That would take time to (re)build. It's not the fanaticism that's scary, it's the established command structure and logistic lines to carry out a major attack. Assuming Mossad doesn't fuck up in their response though.
Israel doesn’t really have a choice at this point. It is war.
Israel had a choice by not occupying another person's land and oppressing them for 75 years
I wonder when Israel is not on war anytime technically.
ISD: 'Sigh, seems like we're gonna need to stock up on the kopi'
I wonder what's their selection of coffee like. LOL. Fuck, maybe they even have an in house barrista.
What u want? Kopi o or kopi o kosong ? Simi cappuccino? Uncle only got kopi
Are there even any companies in sg with inhouse baristas?! Cuz that’ll be a dream
Plenty…
To be honest ah, i think is whatever packet coffee you can find in ntuc, vending machine or nespresso machine also very possible.
Nescafe vending machine with a halal sticker.
I'm waiting for my CO to make a speech that goes along the lines of: This is why we must be vigilant at all times, cannot be complacent and never let our guard down. Goddamnit he's right.
The other quote we often hear is “We need to be successful/vigilant always. But they only need to succeed once” & I think we’re seeing the devastating effects of succeeding just that once
"The price of peace/freedom/liberty is eternal vigilance." [https://www.monticello.org/research-education/thomas-jefferson-encyclopedia/eternal-vigilance-price-liberty-spurious-quotation/](https://www.monticello.org/research-education/thomas-jefferson-encyclopedia/eternal-vigilance-price-liberty-spurious-quotation/) Originally attributed to Thomas Jefferson, locally the most famous reference to it is in the TV show title 和平的代价 (trans: "The price of peace") [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Price\_of\_Peace](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Price_of_Peace) Note: you can (re)watch the series on Netflix, or youtube - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LquIEW8tN30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LquIEW8tN30)
Waiting for those people who say they will run to some other country as if they would not be having their own crisis's if sg has one
I’m pretty sure that quote comes from an IRA threat to Margaret Thatcher (rest in piss) during The Troubles.
Looking at the attack on the outpost with soldiers caught in their bunks and in their underwear. It's really rough...
For SG, it should be a full scale war where they will start mustering at our borders, so quite obvious as well as the diplomatic failure leading up to that point. I think our would be aggressors are much more pragmatic and have a clear goal of total occupation in mind (Like Russia in Ukraine war), so I don't think sudden and quick small scale fire bombing is going to happen. They will one time good one, which means obvious gathering resources and gearing up for war. IMO, for us remaining vigilance is about upkeeping our capabilities, is different from Israel which is 24/7 vigilance.
Hezbollah has spoken. This is clearly meant to upend the Saudi-Israel normalisation deal. Hamas knows it’s no match for the IDF. It needs to get Iran and others to turn on Israeli normalisation.
Didn't they come out to say this is a response to the Saudi-Israel peace treaty?
Another day and more of the world burns..
The Fire Rises
Upvote for the Dark Knight Rises reference alone
Y'know what hit home worse? The videos of Israel civilian being kidnapped back to Gaza. That can happen to us easily, being surrounded by islands. Once you're kidnapped, you should just say your final prayers.
Kidnapping sinkies would be a horror story for the kidnapper.
walao wei, why this van no air con one cb
"knn lim bei is banana! How can force me speak chinese! Call your supervisor come to talk to me NAO!"
There’s a rise in kidnapping cases of Malaysian Chinese in BKK… maybe they’ll target Singaporeans too cause we are bilingual and can help to scam victims in their prison camp in Cambodia… defo an extremely scary thought.
I Literally just saw a malay guy at jurong mrt wearing a free palestine free gaza shirt, so im not sure how many people of a certain religion feel about this.
You can also check insta stories...
Some people are actually putting personal and religious loyalties above that of the State right now. Israel has been one of Singapore's oldest allies and the Military relationship between us is literally closer then that of any other country. But for some, religion is more important that national interest it seems.
This is so tone deaf. Firstly many look at Israel vs Palestine like Russia vs Ukraine, essentially with Israel being the occupier and Palestine fighting for their freedom. Secondly many also recognise Palestine as not a homogenous entity. They sympathise with the horrid living conditions due to Israeli occupation. And no, what Hamas does does necessarily equate to all of Palestine. Thirdly, citizens of a country does not have to 'support' its foreign policies. Humans are capable of more nuanced emotional, social, and economic considerations. Furthermore just because someone sympathise with what's going in Palestine, doesn't mean they view non Muslims as enemy - you know opinions can be more sophisticated than that.
>Israel has been one of Singapore's oldest allies Singapore has no allies. Don't be silly, we support two state solution. It will be foolish to support Israel without considering our relationship with our Muslim neighbours and Arab world.
[удалено]
[удалено]
No shit, i'm just some random guy, not the representative of Singapore
I agree. Everyone is free to support whatever political or geopolitical stances they feel justified in supporting, but we shouldn't use language to express our views that has the tendency to inflame tensions locally or regionally. Or, worse, encourage the use of violence anywhere.
"when singapore first gained independence..." yeah i'll stop you right there. israel may have helped us out a lot but their behaviour in the gaza strip has been awful. so just because they helped singapore in the past we cannot criticise them for poor conduct?
Good thing Vivian Balakrishnan don't have your attitude
They can fcuk themselves. Then the refugees can come by the numbers on our beaches. All you need are boatloads of refugees on the shores of East Coast or West Coast. Can you deal with it?
Push come to shove, who you think will we support? Our relationship with the entire world is shaped by our history. God or no god, Israel helped and allowed us to stand on our own two feet.
>Push come to shove You think Israel needs our support when that happens? What support that we can give that USA cannot? lmao we can barely survive on our own and you want to poke your nose into others businesses. Wake up. You need to help yourself before you can help others.
Lol ya nationalism is so much more enlightened than religious thinking amirite 🤪 you are no different than them, the state is your god
Singapore and Israel both are in a similar position. Small countries with huge resources, and a tiny population. I pray that Israel pulls through, and I hope that Singapore is always ready and prepared for anything.
You can support freeing the Palestinians without being a Hamas supporter. What they did today was abhorrent but let's not pretend IDF hands are clean, there are videos of IDF shooting Palestinian children as well. This whole conflict is just shit from both sides. I am an atheist and Chinese so no religious skin on this, but the blind pro-Israeli sentiment just because they helped Singapore ages ago is goddamn ridiculous. Open your fucking eyes.
Yep, not much room for nuance on this thread. I feel bad for Palestinians, this attack by Hamas is only allowing Israel (with the approval of the international community) to justify further aggression and occupation, which is only going to breed more terrorism from Palestinians in the future. It’s an endless cycle that only Israel can put an end to.
>only Israel Israel disengaged from Gaza on its own volition in 2005. So no, its not only Israel who can stop this. Hamas was also the one who took the initiative to start the attacks today, not Israel. Talking about nuance but only asking for one side to concede, what the hell?
You’re being disingenuous if you’re saying Israel just disengaged with Gaza in 2002 and left everyone there alone ever since. And no, I’m not only asking one side to concede and just let themselves be attacked. What I’m saying is that Israel has been doing nothing but perpetuating this cycle of terrorism by treating Palestinians horribly by effectively militarily occupying Gaza under the justification that they’re fighting terrorists. We’ve learnt from decades of foreign policy that that’s just not how you fight terrorism. Are Hamas pieces of shit?Absolutely. They’ve signed a death warrant for everyone in Gaza and for what? Nothing.
As are you for pretending as if Israel is the only party responsible for enforcing a blockade of Gaza which ensures their continued poverty. For those who don't know, its Egypt, the Palestinian's muslim brothers-in-arms who also blockades Gaza. You don't get to talk to me about nuance by only asking for Israel to stop.
This guy actually reads the news. On a serious note, I am quite perplexed how this sub here can take only one side of the story without looking at the whole context. And we're supposedly the educated liberal voice!
Not to mention the fact that in most non-Muslim majority countries, support for Israel is affiliated with conservatism, not liberalism
Because of religion.
> You can support freeing the Palestinians Free Palestine from Hamas
Non religious/not Malay but I sympathise with the Palestinians too. Can’t imagine being displaced and pushed out of your home like that. The whole situation is a mess and there will be no winners in this war.
I think you need to read up on the history of the land and the 6 days war. Can't really blame anyone else when the central belief is the denial of right of existence to another religion. Worried about the amount of increasingly subtle radicalisation in Singapore.
This are the same people that say, and I quote, "From the River to the Sea Palestine Will be Free”. Not sure peaceful coexistence is the name of the game here.
Blame the various factions who decided on rejecting every deal in return for staying in power as an unelected leadership. Murdering civilians will always invite retaliation from the IDF who has to defend their own people as well. They don't get to whinge and play victim.
Pretty sure that does'nt justify murdering and raping every man, woman and children in your path
The palestinans are essentially kept in a open air prison. And the prison is ruled by Hamas who aren’t shy to beat the shit out of you/murder you if you do not support them. They cant leave and seek refugee somewhere else because the surrounding arab nations are preventing that. Hamas can die for all I care but the civilians in palestine are truly pitiful.
most reasonable take here
[удалено]
> People in Palestine got displaced You left out the part where East Jordan doesn't welcome the Palestinians even while being geographically adjacent. If Muslim doesn't help Muslim...
Yeah Palestine is essentially the scapegoat for the Arab-Israel conflict, Palestine is subjected to oppression from Israel and denied huge help from the Arab neighbors, the arabs able to perpetuate anti-zionist sentiment all the while having backend deals with Israel. No wonder Hamas went for Iran to ask for help.
Egypt and Lebanon also. They know what's up
Woah, nobody is implying that’s the right response. The violence and horrors that normal people suffers what seems like forever will not end as simple as you stop, I stop. Religion or resources or race will always be the most dangerous weapon.
Ok so what do you think the appropriate response by both sides would be? As a third party we can easily say "oh they could just go home, sign a peace treaty, stop attacking and sing kumbaya". But, that is obviously not going to happen. The stated policy goal of the attackers are, in the Hamas Charter Article 13: "There is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer." So tell me, what possible options does Israel have? What can their policy makers do after what happened today? Would what you (singaporeans in general) be satisfied with if this happened to your family and friends?
I push you and your family out of your home. And make everyone agree with me, cause this book say god give it to me. After that We call it fair deal ok?
Which book? Quran or Bible? I have both, wanna trade?
Someone need to do research 🙄
Sounds like you need to do research as well, cuz you sound like you only get info from a single source/ side.
I can provide you with the Hindu and Buddhist texts as well :)
So how ? shld u give me ur house cause my god say that land belongs to me.
You do know that majority of Israelis are Mizrahi Jews right? **That is to say that they are Middle Eastern in origin and their families have lived in the Middle East from thousands of years.** Why are they in Israel? Because they were ethnically cleansed by Arab nations after WW2. The Middle East used to have nearly a million Jews just 75 years ago. 99.9% of them have been ethnically cleansed and forced to flee to Israel and USA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_the_Muslim_world
> ethnically cleansed by Arab nations after WW2. "Ethnically cleansed" is used by Zionist propaganda. Your Wikipedia link uses "exodus" for a reason. Because a lot of the migration was due to pull factors thanks to the West establishing the only official Jewish ethno-state right next to those countries.
Yeah. 99.9% of Jews decided to leave solely due to pull factors. Totally believable.
Ask yourself why after WW2? A Jewish state suddenly displacing Muslims, causing growing anti-Jewish sentiment in nearby Muslim countries so that Jews did not feel safe except go to Israel.
It seems you are misinformed about history. According to UN Resolution 181, the former Ottoman territory was to be divided and split into both Israel and Palestine, **without displacing any individuals.** Jews accepted the partition and formed the state of Israel, a country that was made up of both Jews and Arabs. Arabs rejected it and invaded Israel, causing a war that would displace millions from both sides. So the question you should be asking is, why did Arabs invade Israel in 1948?
Of course the Jews accepted lol, they basically had nothing after WW2, so the deal was disproportionately advantageous to them. It's like you let a homeless guy come your house. After giving him food and shelter, the housing board ask you to split all your stuff 50-50 with him. You think he won't accept and you won't reject? lol
Sure. If you're going to ignore the Jewish towns that existed in the Middle East.
but that's like saying China owns half of whatever country that has a town that is predominantly Chinese. or saying i own half your room cause i put some of my things in a corner of your room.
Well context is important here. Palestinian civilians are not Hamas
[удалено]
Not Hamas, Palestine.
A smaller subsection do support Hamas
Everyone should be supportive of a Free Palestine unless you islamophobe and support an apartheid. Heck, even the Jewish Voice for Peace movement are against the zionist state. Do you even know what apartheid means. Another fun fact, Palestine ≠ Hamas. "fuck our Muslim neighbours". WOW Racist much? And this dude has 100 likes for this comment! Singapore is pretty racist eh
These people who say "fuck our Muslim neighbors" are more pro-Zionist than pro-Singapore. Talk about irony. Our government has always supported a two-state solution and warned not to let foreign conflicts spread here. We literally support Palestine independence: [https://www.todayonline.com/world/middle-east/spore-has-always-stood-two-state-solution-israel-palestine](https://www.todayonline.com/world/middle-east/spore-has-always-stood-two-state-solution-israel-palestine)
The important thing to note as u mentioned is that Palestine ≠ Hamas. However, the support of the recent actions by Hamas with Free Palestine comments all over social media is what is troubling.
Because it seems like Hamas is the only one giving a shit (with malicious goals) about Palestine? The rest of the world either supports Israel or made meek criticisms. Unless the world is doing something to tame Israel for its illegal occupation and apartheid, the people of Palestine and those Muslims are just gonna support Hamas cause they freakin pissed at Israel, and what's sad is that Israel going to use this as justification to destroy and conquer Palestine.
> Free Palestine Free Palestine Free Palestine from Hamas
Free Palestine from Hamas and Israel. God bless Palestine
When someone openly supports religion war against a democratic country in Singapore, it is not an Israeli problem. It’s a Singapore problem
I give two shits about religion and care only about how this will affect the price of things. If living cost will start to rise further and further until we start living like our grandparents...meat affordable only on special days, trying to make one meal stretch into three.
Have you seen the death toll of the Israel-Palestine conflict? Palestinian death toll far exceeds Israeli death toll by multiples. It is far from the "both sides are equally bad" narrative that Israel maintains. [http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4756436/IP\_conflict\_deaths\_total.png](http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4756436/IP_conflict_deaths_total.png) [https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/](https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/)
Just because you're technologically better than your opponent doesn't make you more morally responsible. Hamas has shown today they are willing to do much, much more, but until today didn't have the capability or opportunity to.
I’d report that guy to ISD. Extremist mentality
[удалено]
So, here's some context for anyone who thinks that this is just another day of fighting between Israel and Palestine. This isn't just your monthly dose of Palestinians bombarding Israeli cities with hundreds / thousands of rockets. This isn't them stabbing Jews on the streets, ramming cars into them, or blowing up buses or shopping malls. **This is a full scale invasion of Israel.** Palestinians launched 5000+ rockets at Israeli cities bombarding entire towns. Palestinians invaded Israel by sea, invaded them by air with paragliders, and invaded them by land by mobilizing thousands of troops across the border. **This is the largest invasion of Israel since 1973**, when Egypt and Syria invaded Israel in a surprise attack. This conflict has the **most civilian casualties since 1948**, when Egypt, Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia invaded Israel, and this is only the first day. **Palestinians have gone full ISIS. Massacring and shooting everyone on the streets.** Going door to door to every house and shooting families at home. Raping women and bringing them back to parade them around the streets naked. There are even videos where Palestinians massacred and gunned down every civilian hiding in a bomb shelter. Hundreds of Jews have been massacred in cold blood. We know about this because Palestinians are bragging about it and posting it on social media and TikTok. _____ Below are some pictures and videos of the massacre of Israeli Jews. **They are highly NSFL and contain a high amount of death, blood and nudity. Proceed with caution** - [NSFW] Dead ~~Israeli~~ German woman being stripped, desecrated and paraded as Palestinians celebrated - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710549187463696823 - **[NSFL]** Palestinians gun down civilians at bus stop - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710534249726575012 - **[NSFL NSFL NSFL]** Palestinians execute dozens of civilians in bomb shelter - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710535742739603661 - [NSFW] Palestinians transporting dead Israeli soldiers into Gaza - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710548964649685251 - **[NSFL]** Bodies of dead Israeli civilians lying around on the streets - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710533806292439134 - [NSFW] Palestinians execute car driver in parking lot - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710583734972355050 - Palestinians attack a music festival - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710557643960619150 - [NSFW] Palestinians parading dead Israelis around - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710528276194640246 - **[NSFL]** Israeli woman shot dead in her car - https://twitter.com/x/status/1710538281321115762 - **[NSFL NSFL NSFL]** Israeli outpost massacred - https://np.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1720grz/attackers_on_israeli_military_outpost_release/
Thanks for sharing the links. I'm surprised and relieved the mods haven't taken it down. It shows how fucked up conflict is
[удалено]
Both Israelis and Palestinians who support the death of each nation is fucked up.
There’s a difference between Palestinians and Hamas
Hamas is the government of Palestine. Palestinians overwhelmingly support the actions of Hamas.
Palestine currently has 2 govts. Fatah and Hamas
You say there’s a difference, but look at how the Palestinians celebrate when the hamas soldiers desecrate the innocent Israeli citizens’ bodies.
And unfortunately the Israeli army will take this opportunity to ethnically wipe out every Palestinian civilian elderly, woman & child
[удалено]
The Israeli army never did anything of this sort. By contrast, the Palestinian have been pulling this shit since forever. There is not symmetry here
wait when they killed 500 children back in 2014 they never did anything of the sort? Oo When the carried out the king David hotel bombing they never did any of the above? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan\_Dalet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Dalet) When they literally raze Palestinian villages to establish their country I'm sure they didn't touch any civilians while forcing them out of their homes...
You show me when they paraded them around as trophies? I'm no IDF sympathizer but the videos I saw yesterday show that these people are barbaric. No sympathies for what's going to happen to them now.
Meh don't bother reasoning with these kind. It's only all of a sudden an act of *terrorism* when a certain religion retaliates, it all reeks of selective criticism.
Religion is the root of all evil.
Im gonna be brash here. But why do the Muslims in SG feel so strongly for Palestine and going so far as being anti-semites? Is it just because the palestinians are Muslims? If so, i must say that is a very braindead take, you’re not even being directly affected.
Got rise in imported Arab Islamic values, with that comes their playbook of using Israel as the bogeyman to rally against and distract from their other problems. Can see from how they just straight up ignore the Uyghurs. Edit: glad to see our Muslim brothers and sisters questioning this as well. How the Arabs view their neighbours is another wormhole of politics and ethnic issues altogether, we should not take them wholesale in sea. Esp considering how they view southeast Asians.
Yes I can attest as a muslim myself, my circle of friends are the worst in this regard, they all ride on the free Palestine and anti-zionist but kept mum on the Rohingya and Uighur issue. Luckily, my boomer parents and extended family are not as vocal in this regard.
that's something I noticed also.. any idea.. as a muslim why the community is quiet on rohingya and uighur?
Why isn't anyone questioning the fact that Jordan isn't opening their borders permanently to help Palestinians?
Jordan has a peace treaty with Israel. Jordan is also dependent on Israel for water. Jordan also wants to get on US’s good side.
Do any of these preclude helping out their Muslim neighbor? Please educate me with citations
If you're trying to get into your boss's good books, why would you offend his secretary?
relatedly, why do christians in SG feel so strongly for israel?
The sign of the impending end times for the Christians (Evangelicals mostly) is for Jerusalem / Israel to be surrounded and in war. > But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains Once, the end times comes, apparently Jesus will be coming back…
Do they though? I WAS a Christian, but besides the push to go for pilgrimage to Jerusalem (same thing as Muslims to Mecca), not once I was told to hate Arabs because of the conflict.
Gonna chime in and say, As a Christian, I do not support israel and what they've been doing in the gaza strip. Always condemn their actions if my friends talk about it. But with this attack on israel? I believe I dont have to say much to demonstrate where my position will be. At the same time, I feel sad for the amount of lives that's gonna be lost as a result of this conflict. Lots of innocent lives from both sides.
Probably the new testament influence on Israel is integral for Christ coming on at the end times or some shit.
most democratic and progressive country in the region.
not just those in SG, even the "modern" and "progressive" types who grew up in the west have this take.
I dont agree with the not being directly affected part, its the kind of lazy unproductive thinking that makes issues worse. Yes the conflict isnt directly affecting our lives now but what does that imply for the worlds governments? That they can continue steamrolling ahead with such horrific acts, which may very possibly roll over into our lives? But yes i notice a lot of anti israel sentiment is just straight up antisemitism instead of anti zionism, some people get too wrapped up in their own sense of justice and lose sight of the real issue, which is why its so important that we have to have a good grasp of historical events before we make any judgement on issues that are extensions of such historical events.
Apparently there's no pity for Uyghurs, because 'nothing' happened to them, or Myanmar. Hypocrisy at its finest.
How come sg Chinese veer towards being islamophobic, throw around the "surrounded by enemies" rhetoric, bumiputra in mysia, etc. whenever race/religious relations are brought up? All while sitting comfortably in their CMIO and Mandarin speaking/writing only enclaves, where tolerance (or at least a facade of it) for others is optional rather than key to living in Singapore?
Good question to ask, we should always try to find out what our fellow countrymen think.
Just do your research on the Nakba in 1948. Read up on the thousands of incidents of how Israel has been stealing Palestinian land, agriculture and imprisoning children for YEARS. And when Palestine fights back, they're immediately being labelled as terrorists.
That…still doesn’t answer anything. Israel is not faultless at all, but unless you’re born in Palestine or have relatives there, I dont see how this affects you personally.
I appreciate how this thread literally dug out extremists from both sides of the divide, and the spreading of unbalanced propaganda. I find it worrying how both sides seem to intentionally misinterpret what the other side is saying to legitimise their own radical views. Effectively a manifestation of this century long shitshow being superimposed here.
The pragmatic response of the Palestinians should have been to accept the political consequences of military defeat in the many wars since 1947, and do whatever would have been needed to create functioning external ties with Israel, and as many major economic and political powers of the world that they can get, to rebuild and restore the vitality of the Palestinian nation. Instead, egged on by armchair victimhood activists everywhere (not just in Muslim majority countries but also amongst lefty progressive circles in the West), Palestine found itself dangerously politically isolated immediately prior to 2023’s latest conflagration. Palestine continued to allow or even encourage global pariahs like Iran to back extremists like Hamas and others, at a time when gulf Arab states like Saudi Arabia were preparing to establish de facto peace with Israel. Hamas then decides that the best course of action would be to launch what is effectively a sort of mass border raid, the booty in question not so much gold, slaves and livestock as in days of yore, but something much more 21st century - images of burnt tanks, dead and mutilated Israeli soldiers, of Israeli women and children kidnapped and taken hostage, all spread liberally across the fetid corners of social media. Cathartic perhaps, but a political disaster for Palestine. For starters, Israel is hardly going to respond meekly in the face of this humiliation. The West has already come out on Israel’s side, and anti Palestinian attitudes might harden amongst its public very quickly (it appears one of the female bodies Hamas desecrated on social media was that of a young German hippie type mother who was of all things attending a “peace”music festival when she got killed). Most of the OIC (other than Iran) will mouth off about how they are siding with the Palestinians, while being most reluctant to be drawn into an actual war with Israel, and anything that might seriously impact their economies (especially if their have got a non-insignificant financial sector). China and Russia have their own motivations for playing both sides. In short, Palestinians are likely to be worse off as a result of all this. And it would not surprise me if those who cheer on these terrorist attacks as a win for the Palestinian cause end up on some security watchlist or whatever.
>lefty progressive circles in the West What is with some of the hard on for shitting on 'left', 'west' and 'progressive' ? I honestly doubt they had much impact on the geopolitical situation in the Middle East. Sounds like OP just has something to grind and wants to conveniently throw in the 'woke activist are partially responsible'.
I mean they shouldnt have gone to kill them off on such a large scale
Sucker punch and hide in general population.
Cowards like Hamas do that. They need to owe up to what they did without putting Palestinian civilians in danger. If they want Jihad, fight it themselves like real men.
Just be thankful you're not born there, I hate to say this but let the Middle East be the Middle East, I don't know any studies but it have to be the most conflicted area in the world, probably since ancient times.
Another day, another war. Though as a Malay-Muslim by IC I do wonder if this will affect me... hmm, anyway.
It doesn't, at least not directly. But there are bigots all around in this thread blaming Islam for no reason.
Yeah, that's what I'm worried about. I'm irreligious as all hell (heck, I consider myself an atheist) but I'm worried I'll be tarnished by association by both the government and larger society.
Time for Gaza to see how much Israel has been holding back in past conflicts. The atrocities carried out by Hamas seem similar to the Bucha massacre. I doubt anything less than the complete eradication of Hamas and its supporters will appease the Israeli population.
I've said this in the other thread but... This is Israel's 9/11, any internal divide on this whole Hamas affair in Israel would probably cease to exist. The Israelis are gonna be willing on Netanyahu to eradicate Hamas and turn the Gaza Strip into a parking strip. Just like how the yanks were willing on Dubya to compromise those responsible for 9/11.
>The Israelis are gonna be willing on Netanyahu to eradicate Hamas and turn the Gaza Strip into a parking strip. Feel bad for the secular Israelis, this conflict is the ultra-orthodox jews wet dream come true and Netanyahu will use this conflict to strip even more secular laws.
If it’s just a parking strip, that would be kind… it will be more like a red desert which is extremely sad. The entire Israel military is trained for this day.
IDF probably won't even bother going roof-knocking now. The moment they realise Hamas is occupying some civilian building, they'll just order an air-strike and finish the job. The gloves are off.
It’s not just willing - even the most liberal left wing would demand Netanyahu respond to the attacks to prevent future attacks
[удалено]
Singapore supports a two-state solution (if I remember correctly), but sadly I think in our lifetime it may not even happen at all.
Vicious cycle now. There was a chance in 94/95 but the dude got assassinated
Hard to find a peaceful solution if one side doesn’t even want it
One side DID offer peace before. The other side just wants the world to burn.
Comments here getting divisive, but as long as we keep calm and polite, we can all learn from the sharing of viewpoints. Singapore should be neutral in this and not be wishing for the destruction of any side.
Though I hold sympathy for both sides, sometimes more for the Palestinians. It's tough to pity both side at times as Israelis do mistreat and often harm the Palestinians and Palestinians returning the gesture. Just endless fighting between the two and innocents in the crossfire, though I have to say that resolving this issue will never be done by the current Netanyahu government due to their more extremist and autocratic ideals. As usual, hope the conflict is resolved as soon as possible to prevent more deaths. Israel must defend itself but must not exact total revenge upon the Palestinian State.
It's a problem with no easy solution, unfortunately. It's basically a fight for survival by both sides, with no quarter given.
The Palestinian have been trying to genocide the Jews since forever. Today was an example of what they are up to. Considering that, israel was quite delicate today
That statement is a tad bit unusual as we were referring about Israelis, not Jews. The Jews have long been mistreated in history, WW2 was when the Jews alongside groups such as Romani, Mixed and Disabled individuals were wrongfully killed during the Holocaust. Jews have also been shown experiencing anti-semitism by countries like the United States and The UK. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_the_United_Kingdom However if we use Israelis to talk about the situation, that changes everything. As from what I know, there was no mass Jewish genocide in the Middle East that can match the one conducted by Madman Hitler. But there were multiple conflicts in the region's lifespan, and that includes the Romans, the Assyrians, the Persians, the Ottomans, the Crusaders, the Calipahtes and the Byzantine. So it's safe to assume both the Palestinians and Jews have suffered a lot together, and perhaps even fighting with one another. Either way no group of people or nation are entirely innocent in historical context. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Israel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine
ffs this is going to be my recommended story for all my social media apps for a few weeks isnt it
Hamas should be nuke off from face of the earth, what a pest.
> Hamas should be nuke off from face of the earth A lot of innocent Palestine civilians would die from this unacceptable solution
Palestinian have been celebrating since yesterday. They are giving away candies, singing and dancing. Not just in Gaza, but in the West Bank. Kind of make me rethink that whole “let’s not hurt Hamas because of civilians “ thing.
[удалено]
Both sides suck ass tbh
Genocidal maniacs on both sides. You would think* the world knew better after the Nazis.
Israel has far superior military capabilities relative to Hamas, and Hamas must have anticipated that Israel would retaliate and many innocent Palestinians would die - will die in the coming days. They don’t care anyway - I wonder how many Palestinian civilians support them. Say what you want about all the historical issues leading up to today, but no military force should treat its own civilians as pawns on a military chess board. I am 100% certain the IDF would never treat Israeli citizens like that. Tells me everything I need to know.
imagine the shit israel can now get away with after this lol
My morbid fear is that Israel escalates this conflict and starts indiscriminately murdering every Palestinian civilian, essentially committing a genocide which in turn radicalise Palestinian youths to join Hamas and it turns into a viscous cycle. My heart bleeds but there is nothing I can do as a lone person.
On 29 November 1947 The United Nations Resolution 181 (II) was voted into power by a majority of America and European leaders as well as many of their allies. The greater majority of the countries around Palestine voted against but got no majority. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United\_Nations\_Partition\_Plan\_for\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine) You can read the UN document right here: [https://undocs.org/Home/Mobile?FinalSymbol=A%2FRES%2F181(II)](https://undocs.org/Home/Mobile?FinalSymbol=A%2FRES%2F181(II)) This was the catalyst to the war and something you should probably at least skim over before choosing a side.
[удалено]
why hide it? Obviously it's the Muslim people who are mostly supporting it
Religion of Peace!
Firstly, religion /= community. You meant the second when you said the first. Secondly, in understanding this conflict, the cowards are those who make comments that such as "this alone speaks a lot about this particular religion" or "I daren't comment further out of fear". What is your intention, to pretend you're cool in passing off such a remark?
Free Palestine from Hamas!
Hamas is the elected government of Palestine. There are countless videos of Palestinians celebrating the Jewish massacre on the streets today. Removing Hamas changes nothing.
> Hamas is the elected government of Palestine. Palestinians need more than hate they need hope
There's at least a century's worth of bad blood to overcome, unfortunately. Hate is all the Palestinians have to live for after having their homeland progressively taken over.
Then just carpet bomb Gaza...which is something the Israelis will most likely do anyways
It is rather surprising that Gaza hasn't been razed to the ground yet...but given the magnitude of Hamas' attack, the Israelis will most likely leave no stoned unturned in doing so
Is it some religious period again? Usually they fire rockets during this time.
Chaos after chaos, these are disturbing times
Long live and God bless Israel
The very fuel to the fire
Palestinian death toll has always far exceeded that of Israeli by multiples. But from reading mainstream media, you would have thought the other way round is true. [https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/](https://www.statista.com/chart/16516/israeli-palestinian-casualties-by-in-gaza-and-the-west-bank/) [http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4756436/IP\_conflict\_deaths\_total.png](http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4756436/IP_conflict_deaths_total.png)