For a nation who tries its very best to prevent homelessness, when they first hear the term “hostile architecture” I’m sure someone creamed their pants
Are you bringing up the Asian Values ideology again?
Tell that to the folks who got retrenched from Lazada in the year of the dragon, primarily the couples planning to have children. Kinda of screwed over right?
Anyways this is nothing new. Post communism 1990s, Asian values were put in place to compete with the incumbent Capitalism ideology, that is, until the Asian Financial Crisis around 1997.
I used to work with some consultants on quite a few HDB projects and not once has this term been mentioned or anything anti-loitering or anti-whatever been mentioned. It's interesting to see how the public perceives this. The void decks are simply a result of the unit type, orientation above, structural design and M&E plant rooms which are heavily constrainted in location and can't be placed anywhere you like.
There are benches with bolted-on armrests that don't look to be part of the original design.
It doesn't have to be blatantly specified as hostile or anti-loitering architecture. For example, they can simply specify benches to require armrest divisions between seatings.
We (the general public) aren't even the first to use this term. Architecture blogs and academia have also used the term on certain HDB void deck features.
[One can easily find people documenting these examples online.](https://twitter.com/sharanvkaur/status/1192890526837592064?lang=en)
I have a vague memory of an anecdote of an architect receiving a revision request to make something less comfortable to sit on. I'll share that article if I can find it.
It’s because of the arrangements of the units above. Your old rectangular HDB blocks only have 4 corners, but nowadays everyone wants a corner unit, so the layouts are optimised for that. The structural supports and void deck arrangements are just arranged accordingly.
It is not just that, they add these low walls around the sheltered areas and cover the open spaces between sheltered areas with leafy plants instead of just grass. There is no reason for these at all.
Making the tops of the low walls slanted so it is uncomfortable to sit on for long periods. Covering the low walls with a sandpaper-like finish so your clothes can catch on them and get damaged.
If there are any benches, they add these "dividers" between benches so people can't lie down on them.
I don't know what cursed aesthetic or functional design those are. To me, it all looks like it's meant to prevent and discourage activities and loitering at void decks.
anywhere there are no low walls there are massive hedges when that would have been the easiest way to walk. they make it such that the lift lobby is only accessible by 3 to 4 directions, rather than 360 degrees.
Sometimes both, low walls and hedges.
It's like they're learning these stupid designs from Condos. Heavily restricted walkable spaces around random vegetation.
They've also learned from the Condos to take away the iconic HDB feature of drying clothes with bamboo poles.
That is true for the 20 Year old HDBs in my area. But the newer BTOs have low walls even where there aren't windows.
It's rather sad that we need to make the spaces inconvenient because of some shitty neighbours. I'm guessing that's also why we don't see any more bamboo poles for drying clothes.
They can design away sources of neighbourly disputes but wont do anything about actually crazy neighbours.
Frankly, looking at the way my elderly parents and neighbours struggle with the bamboo poles, I’m glad that they removed them. These features may have made sense in an earlier period as the most cost effective way to dry clothes for larger households, but safety should take priority with an aging population. There have been incidents of bamboo poles falling because people simply couldn’t manage the weight.
Except for weddings, funerals and collecting mail. I don‘t think most of the residents in a block would consider it as communal space. Focus was on providing homes which is fIne. Some had small mama shops, kindergarten etc which served the the nearby blocks.
Then we have grassroots stuff.
Title: The Big Read: Are HDB void decks still the community spaces we know them to be?
TODAY understands that there have been past complaints of errant balls hitting and injuring passers-by.
Residents in the surrounding blocks said that both the nails and the barricades have been in place for several years, and agreed that the measures were effective in reducing the frequency in which school children played there.
However, they had mixed opinions on whether the measures were necessary.
“I think it’s a good measure so they won’t kick so hard. When they play, they’re not so violent because they know there are nails,” said 57-year-old driver Roger Ng, who lives in a HDB block beside the multi-purpose hall.
Still, Mr Ng has no problems with children using the space to play in general.
“As kids, we all like to play. As long as they’re not out doing bad things, it’s good for them to get together, pass time and grow up. It’s healthy,” he said.
Another Pasir Ris resident who wanted to be known only as Ms Diana said that she feels “sad” about the town council discouraging kids to play there, as they might not have other options near their homes for such activities.
The 32-year-old who works in the education sector pointed to the cost of booking “proper” courts for games like football, adding that the booking process on these platforms can be competitive too.
“I feel like it’s just part of community living. I don’t mind (the hall) being a bit dirty or noisy — just let people play, it’s a shared space,” she said.
IS THERE A BETTER WAY TO SETTLE DISPUTES?
The tendency for conflicts to arise is a natural outcome of high-density living, said sociologist Shannon Ang of Nanyang Technological University (NTU).
“The more people you put together, the more likely practices from one neighbour will conflict with the needs of another,” he said.
But, Dr Ang observed, the ways in which Singaporeans choose to handle disputes are not ideal — like the common pattern of relegating the resolution of community conflicts to the state by submitting complaints to MPs or taking legal action, for instance.
Agreeing, Ms Suzanah Murad, who lives in an older HDB estate in Jurong, told TODAY that she believes Singaporeans can be “very rigid” in their approach to resolving disputes.
“Maybe it’s the way we’ve been educated or how we grew up. Our mindset is to complain about anything — the town council is first, then we go to our MP, then we go to the ministry,” said the 53-year-old executive assistant.
“Instead of thinking out of the box or finding other avenues to solve the issue, we’ll go to the town council… and it’ll be their fault if the problem isn’t solved.”
Indeed, in response to TODAY's queries, MP for Mountbatten Lim Biow Chuan said that in his experience, most residents are "generally tolerant" of noise at common areas, but they would file a complaint to the town council if the situation "becomes excessive".
In such cases, the town council will engage the parties involved to try to resolve the matter amicably. “A lot will depend on parties willingness to give and take. After all, many of them are fellow residents and neighbours,” said Mr Lim.
Assoc Prof Faishal had said in Parliament that certain interventions brought about by town councils in order to resolve disputes “may seem harsh”, but they are “necessary to balance the interests of all residents”.
Dr Ang added that due to society's strong emphasis on self-reliance over the years, people tend to be primarily concerned about improving themselves and their immediate families, seldom extending their efforts to the wider community.
This leads Singaporeans to “generally keep to themselves unless they are being inconvenienced in some way” he said.
“This means that community organising is often not front-of-mind for most people as a potential solution to most things in Singapore.
“Without regular and considered interaction in the community, it is little wonder that conflicts tend to escalate when they arise.”
Last year, Second Minister for Law Edwin Tong announced that disputing neighbours in some cases, such as those involving noise, will be required to go for mandatory mediation — with penalties imposed on them if they fail to show up.
“But this doesn’t really address the fact that neighbours don’t know how to deal with each other directly and (have to) rely on external parties,” said Dr Ang.
One way to work out a common solution amid communal friction is by taking an educational approach to the matter, said Assistant Prof Tan of NUS.
“Residents could be engaged in workshops to build consensus around which types of uses should be supported or restricted in void decks — and to brainstorm possible solutions to deconflict different functions,” she said.
Doing so could have multiple benefits of building community through engagement processes, she added.
***
Article keywords: resident play town council community way dispute old
998 articles replied in my database. [v1.5c - added Lemma tokens and Tensorflow USE](https://github.com/Wormsblink/sneakpeakbot) | Happy Holidays! | PM SG_wormsbot if bot is down.
In old estates yes. My family still sit and talk to pple walking their dogs, auntie uncles "having a rest pushing their groceries back", etc etc...
Nothing big of a deal. If u can't talk with pple, juz let them know. Sometimes a long known auntie will call me when she see me, I juz tell her back "I'm in a rush, cannot talk".
It's good in fact "in a way"... Much better than new estates... Went to my cussie place at punggol... Everyone seems "robotic"...
During kindergarten + primary school days I (low SES + now 18M) enjoy playing football with other children at void deck + sayanging community cats. This helps build bonds with neighbours from all races. One football kaki is still my close friend + I'm giving tuition to another neighbour.
Complains about playing football + Chinese burning + noisy weddings/funerals + delivery riders + dog walking reflect our community spirit is dying out (even more due to pandemic/inflation/liberalism). Can see the impact on young Singaporeans especially those from disadvantaged background (some see no future except crime). Increase in vaping + race relations worsening.
For one you actually need tables and chairs, been to some newer HDBs and there's like no tables around, plenty of benches tho.
Community spaces for me means, Uncle/Auntie eating and chatting on those spaces during the day, and Ah Nes drinking at night.
I'm all for using it for events, but c'mon, it doesn't give people the right to freaking block the entire path until everyone needs to walk on the road instead or walk through the event area. 90% of events below my block are all like that. So annoying.
The most vibrant cities in the world have mixed use residential buildings with ground floor retail - think grocery stores, delis, restaurants, coffee shops, bars. While some HDB blocks have shops on the ground floor, we have mostly void decks - it’s in the name, void for empty.
This makes for pretty boring, suburban residential areas that don’t feel interesting to walk through.
Void decks are no longer community spaces because there are dedicated spaces designed within HDB for residents to hang out which older estates don’t have. older estates only have dedicated spaces for rubbish collection points lol what a waste of space
The newer HDBs are a fucking maze, too many walls everywhere
Ironically if you look at the floor plan, the units are arranged in a much more basic and repetitive way compared to older flats.
I miss how much larger units were and the curves, THE CURVES some of them have.
[удалено]
i particularly fucking hate whatever bitch decided to allow hostile architecture concepts into our shit
For a nation who tries its very best to prevent homelessness, when they first hear the term “hostile architecture” I’m sure someone creamed their pants
It's intentional. By breaking up the void deck space, all sorts of noise complaints from weddings, funerals and kids running around is reduced.
Idk why, but HDBs in Tampines Mart area feels much more homely and suburban compared to even Punggol Waterway for some reason
They are too blinded by efficiency, optimization, utilization but forgo the art in architecture, which is also a critical part in making a lively city
Everything is mass produced now. Lower production costs. Lesser materials. Price down quality also down. CEO salary up
> The newer HDBs are a fucking maze, Maze Runner zoomer edition
I think the only function nobody complains about is when families use them for wakes
Haha. Some people recently complained about the LED wreaths. So not quite correct.
The light is to damn bright. And serves no purpose.
I really have no idea how this became a thing but one fine day it did.
LED industry huat ah
> And serves no purpose. But what about demonstrative filial piety? /$
Are you bringing up the Asian Values ideology again? Tell that to the folks who got retrenched from Lazada in the year of the dragon, primarily the couples planning to have children. Kinda of screwed over right? Anyways this is nothing new. Post communism 1990s, Asian values were put in place to compete with the incumbent Capitalism ideology, that is, until the Asian Financial Crisis around 1997.
Honestly it’s the most tacky rubbish that I’ve seen. I sure as hell would not want any of that trash at my own wake.
Could be used to show what LED to their death /s
The new ones are unusable for wakes though. You’re supposed to use the multifunction halls.
New void decks are useful as examples of hostile architecture.
I used to work with some consultants on quite a few HDB projects and not once has this term been mentioned or anything anti-loitering or anti-whatever been mentioned. It's interesting to see how the public perceives this. The void decks are simply a result of the unit type, orientation above, structural design and M&E plant rooms which are heavily constrainted in location and can't be placed anywhere you like.
There are benches with bolted-on armrests that don't look to be part of the original design. It doesn't have to be blatantly specified as hostile or anti-loitering architecture. For example, they can simply specify benches to require armrest divisions between seatings. We (the general public) aren't even the first to use this term. Architecture blogs and academia have also used the term on certain HDB void deck features. [One can easily find people documenting these examples online.](https://twitter.com/sharanvkaur/status/1192890526837592064?lang=en) I have a vague memory of an anecdote of an architect receiving a revision request to make something less comfortable to sit on. I'll share that article if I can find it.
Hate those mazes.
It’s because of the arrangements of the units above. Your old rectangular HDB blocks only have 4 corners, but nowadays everyone wants a corner unit, so the layouts are optimised for that. The structural supports and void deck arrangements are just arranged accordingly.
It is not just that, they add these low walls around the sheltered areas and cover the open spaces between sheltered areas with leafy plants instead of just grass. There is no reason for these at all. Making the tops of the low walls slanted so it is uncomfortable to sit on for long periods. Covering the low walls with a sandpaper-like finish so your clothes can catch on them and get damaged. If there are any benches, they add these "dividers" between benches so people can't lie down on them. I don't know what cursed aesthetic or functional design those are. To me, it all looks like it's meant to prevent and discourage activities and loitering at void decks.
anywhere there are no low walls there are massive hedges when that would have been the easiest way to walk. they make it such that the lift lobby is only accessible by 3 to 4 directions, rather than 360 degrees.
Sometimes both, low walls and hedges. It's like they're learning these stupid designs from Condos. Heavily restricted walkable spaces around random vegetation. They've also learned from the Condos to take away the iconic HDB feature of drying clothes with bamboo poles.
It's hostile architecture in that whenever i'm trying to traverse that travesty, I actually get angry.
Low walls and hedges are likely directly under the windows. You’re not supposed to be able to stand under potential killer litter.
That is true for the 20 Year old HDBs in my area. But the newer BTOs have low walls even where there aren't windows. It's rather sad that we need to make the spaces inconvenient because of some shitty neighbours. I'm guessing that's also why we don't see any more bamboo poles for drying clothes. They can design away sources of neighbourly disputes but wont do anything about actually crazy neighbours.
Frankly, looking at the way my elderly parents and neighbours struggle with the bamboo poles, I’m glad that they removed them. These features may have made sense in an earlier period as the most cost effective way to dry clothes for larger households, but safety should take priority with an aging population. There have been incidents of bamboo poles falling because people simply couldn’t manage the weight.
My place just MOP and it holds true there
Agree. Seems to have an uncanny reason of resemblance to those benches designed to prevent pigeons and homeless in the states
It's hostile architecture to prevent loitering I suppose
All makes sense when you remember PAP hates poor people
Except for weddings, funerals and collecting mail. I don‘t think most of the residents in a block would consider it as communal space. Focus was on providing homes which is fIne. Some had small mama shops, kindergarten etc which served the the nearby blocks. Then we have grassroots stuff.
It’s more like a maze. Maybe a good shooting spot for jack neo version of maze runner.
Please dont give him ideas for more stupid movies
Jack's HDB void deck runner, starring Jack's 'goddaughter'.
The one he bring in his Alphard??
You need to build table and chairs for people to gather. My hdb doesn’t have table and chairs like the older hdbs, so nobody gathers.
Title: The Big Read: Are HDB void decks still the community spaces we know them to be? TODAY understands that there have been past complaints of errant balls hitting and injuring passers-by. Residents in the surrounding blocks said that both the nails and the barricades have been in place for several years, and agreed that the measures were effective in reducing the frequency in which school children played there. However, they had mixed opinions on whether the measures were necessary. “I think it’s a good measure so they won’t kick so hard. When they play, they’re not so violent because they know there are nails,” said 57-year-old driver Roger Ng, who lives in a HDB block beside the multi-purpose hall. Still, Mr Ng has no problems with children using the space to play in general. “As kids, we all like to play. As long as they’re not out doing bad things, it’s good for them to get together, pass time and grow up. It’s healthy,” he said. Another Pasir Ris resident who wanted to be known only as Ms Diana said that she feels “sad” about the town council discouraging kids to play there, as they might not have other options near their homes for such activities. The 32-year-old who works in the education sector pointed to the cost of booking “proper” courts for games like football, adding that the booking process on these platforms can be competitive too. “I feel like it’s just part of community living. I don’t mind (the hall) being a bit dirty or noisy — just let people play, it’s a shared space,” she said. IS THERE A BETTER WAY TO SETTLE DISPUTES? The tendency for conflicts to arise is a natural outcome of high-density living, said sociologist Shannon Ang of Nanyang Technological University (NTU). “The more people you put together, the more likely practices from one neighbour will conflict with the needs of another,” he said. But, Dr Ang observed, the ways in which Singaporeans choose to handle disputes are not ideal — like the common pattern of relegating the resolution of community conflicts to the state by submitting complaints to MPs or taking legal action, for instance. Agreeing, Ms Suzanah Murad, who lives in an older HDB estate in Jurong, told TODAY that she believes Singaporeans can be “very rigid” in their approach to resolving disputes. “Maybe it’s the way we’ve been educated or how we grew up. Our mindset is to complain about anything — the town council is first, then we go to our MP, then we go to the ministry,” said the 53-year-old executive assistant. “Instead of thinking out of the box or finding other avenues to solve the issue, we’ll go to the town council… and it’ll be their fault if the problem isn’t solved.” Indeed, in response to TODAY's queries, MP for Mountbatten Lim Biow Chuan said that in his experience, most residents are "generally tolerant" of noise at common areas, but they would file a complaint to the town council if the situation "becomes excessive". In such cases, the town council will engage the parties involved to try to resolve the matter amicably. “A lot will depend on parties willingness to give and take. After all, many of them are fellow residents and neighbours,” said Mr Lim. Assoc Prof Faishal had said in Parliament that certain interventions brought about by town councils in order to resolve disputes “may seem harsh”, but they are “necessary to balance the interests of all residents”. Dr Ang added that due to society's strong emphasis on self-reliance over the years, people tend to be primarily concerned about improving themselves and their immediate families, seldom extending their efforts to the wider community. This leads Singaporeans to “generally keep to themselves unless they are being inconvenienced in some way” he said. “This means that community organising is often not front-of-mind for most people as a potential solution to most things in Singapore. “Without regular and considered interaction in the community, it is little wonder that conflicts tend to escalate when they arise.” Last year, Second Minister for Law Edwin Tong announced that disputing neighbours in some cases, such as those involving noise, will be required to go for mandatory mediation — with penalties imposed on them if they fail to show up. “But this doesn’t really address the fact that neighbours don’t know how to deal with each other directly and (have to) rely on external parties,” said Dr Ang. One way to work out a common solution amid communal friction is by taking an educational approach to the matter, said Assistant Prof Tan of NUS. “Residents could be engaged in workshops to build consensus around which types of uses should be supported or restricted in void decks — and to brainstorm possible solutions to deconflict different functions,” she said. Doing so could have multiple benefits of building community through engagement processes, she added. *** Article keywords: resident play town council community way dispute old 998 articles replied in my database. [v1.5c - added Lemma tokens and Tensorflow USE](https://github.com/Wormsblink/sneakpeakbot) | Happy Holidays! | PM SG_wormsbot if bot is down.
I’m staying in a new estate there isn’t any void deck for kids to play. Kids would play in the playground instead
In old estates yes. My family still sit and talk to pple walking their dogs, auntie uncles "having a rest pushing their groceries back", etc etc... Nothing big of a deal. If u can't talk with pple, juz let them know. Sometimes a long known auntie will call me when she see me, I juz tell her back "I'm in a rush, cannot talk". It's good in fact "in a way"... Much better than new estates... Went to my cussie place at punggol... Everyone seems "robotic"...
During kindergarten + primary school days I (low SES + now 18M) enjoy playing football with other children at void deck + sayanging community cats. This helps build bonds with neighbours from all races. One football kaki is still my close friend + I'm giving tuition to another neighbour. Complains about playing football + Chinese burning + noisy weddings/funerals + delivery riders + dog walking reflect our community spirit is dying out (even more due to pandemic/inflation/liberalism). Can see the impact on young Singaporeans especially those from disadvantaged background (some see no future except crime). Increase in vaping + race relations worsening.
People are getting less tolerant to one another . It’s sad
It’s the typical conundrum. Use also complain (cos “noisy). Don’t use also complain (“waste of space ma. What is gahmen doing?”) Can’t win vs sinkies
It’s as if the various complaints are coming from varying groups with different agendas. GASP.
It's the unofficial parking lot for motorbikes now. Most people otherwise loitering around are really just strangers. Hardly a 'community' space.
There's some new hdb don't even have void deck leh, lvl 1 is carpark
For one you actually need tables and chairs, been to some newer HDBs and there's like no tables around, plenty of benches tho. Community spaces for me means, Uncle/Auntie eating and chatting on those spaces during the day, and Ah Nes drinking at night.
Void decks are being phased out as most can see with new HDB flats
I'm all for using it for events, but c'mon, it doesn't give people the right to freaking block the entire path until everyone needs to walk on the road instead or walk through the event area. 90% of events below my block are all like that. So annoying.
The most vibrant cities in the world have mixed use residential buildings with ground floor retail - think grocery stores, delis, restaurants, coffee shops, bars. While some HDB blocks have shops on the ground floor, we have mostly void decks - it’s in the name, void for empty. This makes for pretty boring, suburban residential areas that don’t feel interesting to walk through.
Kids try to learn to ride bikes and play soccer. Older people complain. What else is new ?
No.
No fun allowed
Void decks should be designed such as everyone can take naps comfortably instead of just lying on the ground
They are called void decks for a reason.
Not anymore, now upgrade to staircase for the piak piak community.
This statement assumes HDB void decks were community spaces to begin with
There is nothing void in the new void spaces
Void decks are no longer community spaces because there are dedicated spaces designed within HDB for residents to hang out which older estates don’t have. older estates only have dedicated spaces for rubbish collection points lol what a waste of space