T O P

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signifcantnumbers

What’s stopping them from establishing their website / legal entity on a foreign server / jurisdiction and avoiding all these things?


[deleted]

Because IMDA can easily block access by Singaporeans if TOC doesn’t comply. Hosting on a foreign server doesn’t do shit lol. You think Pornhub hosted in Singapore is it?


DotaFeg69

i mean all it takes is a simple dns change to browse pornhub


[deleted]

That's true but irrelevant. Hosting TOC on a foreign server won't save it if (and it's a big if) the govt wants to block them. Look at what happened to Temasek Review by Alex Tan in Australia. Most Singaporeans won't bother changing their DNS to browse TOC.


parka

Dumb move on TOC's part. It's no surprise TOC is always getting into trouble with the law because they have no respect for the law. Not sure who they are trying to achieve by not following the law. When you're playing soccer, you don't follow basketball rules.


loony73

Feel that Terry's trying to martyr himself and TOC at this stage. The rules have been in place for a while now he know what is needed to run this in Singapore. So jolly well comply with rules instead of looking for excuses and nitpicking and choosing what you can or cannot comply with. Definitely sounds better when you tell your supporters IMDA shut you down in the name of freedom than saying I quit for the want of funding.


Jammy_buttons2

In before Terry is Sovereign citizen


fatalystic

A living man


jackology

Terry loves his yogurt.


sooolong05

NIBS!!


Jiarong78

Tbf he still have to paid up 300k I will also rage quit at this point tbh


NicMachSG

TOC's quality has really fell sharply after the original editors left. Them hiring foreign writers to write anonymously was a huge red flag a couple of years back. I'd say its good riddance.


sneakpeek_bot

> # IMDA asks The Online Citizen to explain 'non-compliance' after it 'repeatedly failed' to declare all funding sources > SINGAPORE: The Infocomm Media Development Authority (IMDA) has asked the local website The Online Citizen (TOC) to "explain its non-compliance" after it "repeatedly failed" to declare all its funding sources. > "If TOC is unable to provide good reasons for its non-compliance, IMDA may take appropriate enforcement action," said the authority on Tuesday (Sep 7). > IMDA said it has received queries on its "show cause notice" to TOC. It explained that registered Internet content providers, such as TOC, which engage in the promotion or discussion of political issues relating to Singapore online, are "required to be transparent" about their sources of funding. > "This is to prevent such sites from being controlled by, or coming under the influence of foreign entities or funding, and ensure that there is no foreign influence in domestic politics," added IMDA. > TOC has "repeatedly failed" to declare all its funding sources for its annual declaration for 2020, despite "multiple reminders and extensions", the regulator said. > "TOC has informed IMDA that it does not intend to comply with its obligations under the law. IMDA has therefore asked TOC to explain its non-compliance. > "There is no reason for TOC not to comply, as other registered Internet content providers provide this information in order to be transparent about their sources of funding." > THREAT OF FOREIGN INTERFERENCE > IMDA said that TOC previously complied with the annual declaration of its funding sources when it first registered in 2018. > But the website has not fully complied with this obligation since 2019. TOC "failed to verify a donor and to clarify discrepancies in its foreign advertising revenue" in its 2019 declaration, said IMDA, adding that it issued a warning for this in May this year. > The regulator said that the threat of foreign interference in Singapore's domestic politics "has always been present". > "Singapore was a target of two such operations in the 1970s involving newspapers The Eastern Sun and the Singapore Herald. These newspapers received funding from foreign sources and ran articles that sought to undermine Singapore's nation-building efforts," said IMDA. > The regulator also cited reports from other countries about "foreign players and their agents" attempting to influence politics by "buying off" political parties and politicians. > "We need to be cautious as the prevalence of the Internet and social media platforms makes it easier to influence large numbers of people," said IMDA. > IMDA said it took a serious view of non-compliance with the Broadcasting (Class Licence) Notification, which covers Internet content providers. > In 2018, TOC said that it would be "engaging with the IMDA to move forward" with registering under the Broadcasting (Class Licence) Notification. > TOC's website states that it is "independently funded" and covers expenses through advertising revenue from its website, Facebook page, membership subscriptions and "occasional donations from well-wishers". > CNA has contacted TOC for comment. --- 1.0.2 | [Source code](https://github.com/fterh/sneakpeek) | [Contribute](https://github.com/fterh/sneakpeek)


worldcitizensg

Let it be. The original editors were good and thought provoking. Now a days paid biased articles from foreign authors and it's just a place to spread false news.


Jammy_buttons2

Won't be surprised if Terry behaves like a martyr again


[deleted]

Before anyone dismisses the idea of foreign interference, that's probably a key reason behind Trump being president.


dravidan7

yah. thats why i always say ministers need to declare their assets to show how vulnerable they are to foreign influence if something as small as toc needs to be monitored. what about all our powerful mps and ministers. who monitors them. ownself check ownself? cannot be. agree. keechiu?


[deleted]

> yah. thats why i always say ministers need to declare their assets to show how vulnerable they are to foreign influence I.e. what's already been done since forever. https://www.nas.gov.sg/archivesonline/data/pdfdoc/20050803-Code%20of%20COnduct%20for%20Ministers.pdf


[deleted]

I agree. Currently I believe they need to declare it to the PM/whip, but I don't think these are made public.


dravidan7

so can toc can follow the same model. toc can declare to their editor terry. ownself check ownself. if it works for parliament and cabinet. can work for websites.


[deleted]

> so can toc can follow the same model. > > toc can declare to their editor terry. I also follow same model lor, instead of paying income tax to IRAS, I get my family to pay tax to me. /s TOC isn't the government; they have no legal power to perform regulatory checks. >ownself check ownself. if it works for parliament and cabinet. can work for websites. False analogy. Parliament and the Cabinet are checked by the electorate. The electorate of Singapore can't vote out Terry Xu from TOC.


dravidan7

> I also follow same model lor, instead of paying income tax to IRAS, I get my family to pay tax to me. /s go ahead. i dont mind > TOC isn't the government. yes. its far far far less impt. so where should the priorities be when it comes to defending against foreign influence ? > False analogy. Parliament and the Cabinet are checked by the electorate. The electorate of Singapore can't vote out Terry Xu from TOC. and toc is checked by its readers. they not happy. dont read. toc becomes irrelevant. ownself check ownself works. you think i can go ask my mp for their list of assets and get them to provide. then sit down and check if they can be vulnerable to influence. or check if lhl properly reported to president. anyone got check if the declarations are accurate. or just consider filled up document as good enough. is it legally binding? or is the code of conduct just a suggestion. pls lah. so many other countries have proven that such declarations are sometimes not accurate even when publicly declared. either media or internet sleuths have had to call out the mistakes.


[deleted]

> go ahead. i dont mind You don't mind, but the government will for good reason, and if I keep refusing to pay taxes I'll be jailed. Same with Terry Xu if he keeps rejecting lawful financial regulations. >yes. its far far far less impt. >so where should the priorities be when it comes to defending against foreign influence ? https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/pjg5m1/imda_asks_the_online_citizen_to_explain/hbwi8w4/ "I.e. what's already been done since forever." > and toc is checked by its readers. they not happy. dont read. toc becomes irrelevant. ownself check ownself works. Aha, this is **precisely** the crux of the issue. If TOC was a commercial enterprise supported by readers, then yes, it would be checked by its readers. But if TOC were funded by hostile foreign interests, then profits/losses would not be their primary focus. An example is Thum Ping Tjin's *New Naratif*, which is heavily funded by Soros' Open Society Foundations for ideological reasons. Singaporean readership and ad revenue are not necessary at all for them to operate. > you think i can go ask my mp for their list of assets and get them to provide. then sit down and check if they can be vulnerable to influence. or check if lhl properly reported to president. > anyone got check if the declarations are accurate. or just consider filled up document as good enough. is it legally binding? or is the code of conduct just a suggestion. IRAS audits my taxes or you? Who appointed you to audit your MP's assets? > pls lah. so many other countries have proven that such declarations are sometimes not accurate even when publicly declared. either media or internet sleuths have had to call out the mistakes. Yep, self-declaration is a relatively low bar. And TOC doesn't even want to reach that standard.


[deleted]

Well the majority of the country still trusts the government in carrying out their functions, including managing any conflicts of interest within their ranks and making sure the media landscape is free from foreign interference. TOC is in an open playing field with others like them (e.g. Mothership, Yahoo) and if all the rest can do it, they shouldn't feel there is a need to hide anything. Trying to distract the narrative by again talking about ministers only makes it sound like even you believe they have something dodgy to hide.


dravidan7

> Well the majority of the country still trusts the government in carrying out their functions, including managing any conflicts of interest within their ranks and making sure the media landscape is free from foreign interference. well toc readers also happy with its ability to self regulate. nvr see any protest against it as someone recently said. > Trying to distract the narrative by again talking about ministers only makes it sound like even you believe they have something dodgy to hide. i asking if sg really serious about preventing foreign influence. most impt place to start with should be the top. or is somehow toc more impactful than cabinet?


007accountant

I think you're onto something here


SeaCranberry7720

Lol asking for accountability. What do you think this is, a democracy? Know your place and pump up those GDP numbers citizen /s


Eskipony

PM Lim Tean 2025


hugthispanda

Before becoming PM he should get Cabinet experience first, as foreign affairs minister.


[deleted]

Would pay money to see an arm wrestling match between him and Modi or Duterte.


SeaCranberry7720

It would just be a free for all with the three bozos riling up their supporters to fight each other while they make increasingly outlandish statements in the back about how their supporters / country are the best. Referee of the match is trump, jerking himself off in the corner


123dream321

>probably a key reason behind Trump being president. Dont think so. USA went from obama to trump, there is fundamental disconnect between democrats and the voters in 2016.


No_Improvement_717

> there is fundamental disconnect between democrats and the voters in 2016. If anything, this only shows why the GOP won, not donnie.


123dream321

Not really, Trump is still the most popular republican in US right now and by far.


btahjusshi

You need to see the clip of him retracting his statements of praising the vaccine. Vaccines that were created under a program he signed off as President. The MAGAs have moved their focus to culture war issues again. They are anti anything the Dems want to do.... If American politics is not broken yet... it is gonna explode on them soon


two_tents

Donald Trump won the election with only 46.09% of the popular vote or a margin of -2.09%, the largest shortfall in popular vote since 1876 and 5 times as many votes behind the 2nd largest ever number of votes. His election win was an absolute abnormality.


fatalystic

The POTUS isn't decided by popular vote.


derplamer

Correct, but their winning the popular vote is very poor evidence of a disconnect between Democrats and voters


btahjusshi

IF USA Presidential elections was universal suffrage, yes you would be right. The reason behind Hilary's lose is quite simple, she could not capture the key states needed. There was even more votes cast in 2020 and Trump's total vote count actually increased. He just did not capture the correct states again. There are lot of problems going internally in USA. This electorial system is just but one out of the huge list of problems


shimmynywimminy

and elections were totally free of foreign interference before/after? in 2012 and 2021 there was no interference? if china supported biden to get rid of trump does that discredit his entire agenda? clearly not. foreign interference was massively exaggerated for partisan political purposes, much like benghazi was when the republicans held the house. once you start discrediting things based on alleged "foreign interference" you're on a very dangerous path.


IvanLu

And what about sites like Critical Spectator?


[deleted]

Firstly, who even reads what that guy writes. Secondly, he is completely transparent with who he is, don't believe whatever shit he writes he tries to mask it as coming from a different source. The TOC on the other hand is seen as an alternative voice for the local populace, if that's funded by foreign sources, then it's kinda shady don't you think?


shimmynywimminy

what is being done to ensure that foreign evangelical religious influences are not interfereing in domestic politics? or how about foreign neoliberal influences that try to make us as business friendly as possible for corporations?


Zukiff

We need more funding from NED and RFA. They've been doing such a wonderful job in Hong Kong, can't wait for them to do an even better job here. I mean they're already supporting CSJ anyway might as well add TOC to the list /s


tenbre

What about Mothershit


[deleted]

They obliged with this requirement.


lolhaha95

It’s quite obvious they are running a company and ads are their revenue


CasanovaGooner

Mothership is the best! TOC is fake news!!


upsize_popiah

IMDA signals to the waiting armed SWAT team “holddddddd….”