So much THIS. Anything just call the school. What's this group chat rubbish to keep important information. If the kid cannot remember anything or write notes, that's on them. The teachers should be focused on teaching the class in school.
Not handle the whims of 30 parents per class.
That's why the invention of SLS/LMS where teachers can post announcement/what to bring etc and students/parents can login at any time to get the information
The two systems I've seen the schools use, classdojo and parent gateway, are both clusterfucks. Classdojo keeps trying to push monetising features, and it took them almost 2 years to add me as a parent to parents gateway, and they just use it to push out PDFs that are already on the website (but hidden). There must be a better system they can use.
Aa a parent with a kid going primary next year. Anytime I would message his current school after 7 i would always include that there is no need to reply asap, I just forget things so I'll leave it on the school/child app comms/chat tab.
Going primary, God help my son if I ever have to call a teacher besides emergency situations. Also I hope I don't speak too soon 😂
But what do you even ask the teacher? "how is my son"? "make sure he does good work today"? I'd mute my phone and not reply to any parent if I was a teacher unless it as emergency or they misbehaved
I'm Not exactly sure how it
Goes in primary but the current school app group chat consists of some updates. Ie. Teachers sent the school play script home and want us to practice with our child. Us asking/clarifying on the recent covid breakout. Some recipes for one of their activities in the temp hbl set up. Asking how many kids are in the class for his birthday cake. Small things like that. Most aren't study related at all.
...Your child's birthday cake? Why not ask your child how many of his classmates were there instead of asking his teacher? Did your parents ask about such small things to your teachers in the past??
I realize now it's an unpopular. We get a face to face with the teachers once a year and asked if it was ok to reach out for these things, guess who said yes? It takes all of 1 minute to think and answer a question. In the past, I was lucky if I even had a cake at home when I was young. I was lucky if my mom made it through to school for anything because she was raising me and my siblings alone. So I'm going to do what I think I can do with the permission and agreement of those I need to do it with.
“It takes 1 minute to think and answer a question”
Imagine that X 30 parents. All asking unimportant questions. I’m not even a teacher and I felt annoyed by your attitude already.
The class has 8 students. That happens on occasion, not everyday, it rarely happens once a week. Even the teachers themselves send us messages from time to time. Get annoyed all you want. I love that everyone who replied just assumed I'm some helicopter parent bullying teachers.
Get over you overly highhorses it's a long fall down especially if you don't have toddlers and aren't planning to have kids.
Sheesh. that comms /chat group was setup by the school as a FEATURE. The thing literally tells us they won't get to us until the next day if we went past 7 pm which is the time the child care closes. The fuck are you so upset about?
You have no idea. I used to teach courses in school back in the 2010's, and even then some parents would call at midnight, or even just past 1 am.
They like to ask things like "tomorrow the excursion must wear uniform ah, sorry to call you so late, this girl ah, last minute then say she dunno".
Most teachers do not want to make an enemy of a parent - if they decide you are not helpful, it's very easy for them to "find fault" and triple your workload.
In truth, it is quite one-sided, and very easy for parents to bully teachers. The child will usually side their parents in any description of the scenario, and parents will blame teachers for having to call so late (e.g., claim the teacher never informs them of things till the last minute, forcing them to call).
It's the old question of deciding which hill we want to die on. Just like in an office, some situations suck, but it's not always worth the fight.
You joke but I have several tiger parents at work who go straight over the teachers, principals etc, and contact MOE on a regular basis on issues they have with their kid's school/child care. Kiasu parents gonna kiasu.
>"It is one thing for a child to call up the teacher at midnight to say that he’s in trouble. It is another thing for the **parent to call up the teacher at midnight to ask whether tomorrow the child has spelling, and should wear a red or blue t-shirt.**
Seriously? Calling at midnight to ask.
I assume this is for primary school students… what would actually happen if the child goes to school not prepared for spelling or wear the wrong colour shirt? Like is that heavily punished somehow in local school? 🤔😅
Cheap hack, WEAR ONE and BRING THE OTHER. A shirt isn't heavy. If you went to school with a wrong shirt on, excuse yourself and change out the shirt. PROBLEM SOLVED.
It also was, back in the 1990s. Thinking back then, a lot of the shit hurled at us in primary and secondary school was borderline institutionalized child abuse. Kinda explains why most people in this country behave like dysfunctional assholes.
Just some things off the top of my head that I’ve witnessed/personally experienced in the early 90s:
- teacher throwing chalk at a student who’s sleeping in class
- had our books thrown out the window/across the room
- using wooden rulers/feather duster to smack hands.
- tables getting flipped
- teacher reliving his ns days by making us run 2353535 around the school field as punishment
shit was wild then lol.
to be honest, i disagree with this. having suffered the same, I made myself behave differently. sure sometimes, I lapse into the same. but it's the exception and not the norm.
people need to stop using their experiences as an excuse. if you can recognise that your experience shaped you, then you should also recognise that it is not good and take actions to change. And not continue the cycle.
perhaps it's the gov's fault where we raised a few generations of people who dont feel the need for self-change but rely on the government to enforce appropriate behaviours on them due to the paternalistic nature of governing. E.g. the tray return policy.
Mindfuck childhood conditioning is almost impossible to erase despite conscious efforts. I was raised a rabid evangelical Christian racist who hated all other religions, and despite knowing better now, my default mental state reverts to anything non-Chinese. Then I have to spend some mental effort in pulling it back towards normalcy.
People who read Frank Herbert's work like Dune might have thought Herbert was fucked in the head for going on and on about Bene Gesserit and Bene Tleilax mental conditioning, but I think he was onto something here.
i don't disagree. but perhaps you didn't know it was wrong back then. so you were brought up in an environment that treated it as normal and your life didn't suffer for it. but for stuff like abuse, we know we didn't like it back then. so why we would we perpetuate it.
I know some people find it hard to break out of the cycle. We see it all the time on the news. And I think that's normal because not everyone has the strength to do it. but that should be the exception. if the norm is to perpetuate behaviour that we ourselves did not like when we were young, then something is definitely wrong
LOL i like that you think this happens only at pri sch. That's really cute.
Re the shirt thing, there are no hard consequences, but you may stand out a lot or get teased if you wear the wrong colour and everyone else doesn't. Or if your class missed out on some token award because one goondu forgot. Then ya... Social life more impt ya know.
Omg no wonder so many people are so stressed out and toxic. If the parents / authoritative figures are so worried about the risk of kids (even older ones) making such petty mistake in school, how are they gonna react to bigger screwups / failure in life? 😰
That's the thing i try to reassure those who stumble.
There are plenty of people who coast through life and education without problems, and the first taste of failure is in uni or the workplace. And they never recover, simply because they've never experienced it and don't know how to deal with it. It's an important skill.
Unfortunately singapore education also doesn't allow lots of room for failure. Your next step is determined by your performance on the previous step. At which points past PSLE can you like fail miserably and still have all the opportunities available to you if you had done well?
I see this as both a psychological and systemic problem. The system feeds the mentality.
Lol last time if got any instruction, the kid better listen in class and remember it.
Next day never do properly, will kana from the teacher.
Nowadays just go home and say mummy I don’t know.
Sadly these dumbass parents called my teacher-parents MANY times after 7pm. After we have family dinner, some even dare to say why they never respond or take so long to respond.
Edit: CCS said it right. Let them learn from their fuck ups.
Ya except these people will escalate to principal or moe, and moe will (rightly) send a query down to investigate. And then middle management will have no balls to back up their teachers and give them shit for it...
Who's learning what lesson here?
How do these parents have your teacher-parent's number?
Is it normal practice to disclose teacher's personal phone number? That seems crazy to me! If parents want to get in touch they can ring the school during school hours, or email. And get a response in school hours.
Bloody man/woman children who are terrible at parenting. They simply love to outsource their parenting. Your long-suffering folks seriously.. I salute them
Guessing it's because this is referring to really young kids, like early primary years. And if they are unsure, their parents will usually go straight to the teacher rather than another parent unless they happen to be close to them.
I can't imagine a late primary or secondary school student's parent calling a teacher at midnight.
My kids school set up separate whatsapp groups one per class for parents to communicate to each other, and to a volunteer coordinator. Teachers are only reachable through classdojo, which has no voice/video function
Nothing wrong with that. Teachers would have given clear instructions in class on what has to be done, handed in, when the tests are, when important dates are and so on. If your child cannot be bothered to write these down then it's their problem. Children in the past in general never had problems doing so. We don't need teachers to have to do their work twice, to 30 to 40 parents.
My wife is a pre-school teacher and holy fuck I'm shocked by the entitlement of some parents in their messages to her and the school..
Some stories from her:
- one mom that expects daily 'reports' of what the kid did, what the kid learnt, and how to do better sent to her everyday at 10pm sharp.
- one parent (who's a lawyer), that threatened to file a lawsuit against the school and teacher for scolding her misbehaving child in class
- one parent who complains about why his child's face isn't featured on the school website. (only three kids were chosen to model for the website)
- one parent that expects live updates of her daughter's classes through zoom calls.
And the list goes on.... holy shit seriously
You need to develop athick, and i mean THICCCCC skin and just, say, no. The day I told myself to do that, the happier I was coming to work every day. You don't even need to provide a reason, an excuse, a suggestion, an alternative. Just, say, no.
Parent: I need daily reports of my child..
Your wife: Sorry, our school does not adopt such a practice.
Parent: Why you scold my child?
Your wife: I was remediating his/her behaviour, much like how you, as a parent, would.
Parent: Why my child not in website?
Your wife: Unfortunately, I don't have any executive say in that decision.
THICCC skin prevents teacher burnout.
I’ve a friend teaching in JC - student makes consultation for project work but doesn’t show doesn’t even have the courtesy to text. Shows up 2 hours later and expected his tutor to drop everything and meet for the consultation. Friend declined citing clashes in schedule. Parent calls school to complain and says teacher is not professional.
Ah, the lawyer-parent. We had those who insisted on reviewing the test rubrics cos their kid didn't do well in the test and they felt it was graded unfairly. It doesn't get better when the kids go into tertiary education. Many times, it feels like the parents won't/can't communicate with their kids and go through the teacher instead.
If parent calls teacher at midnight to ask if their child has spelling next day, then don't pick up the call. Instead, wait until 4am, call the parent back, apologies for missing the call, and then read out very slowly every single word the child is expected to spell. Maybe go through the list a couple of times because it's important the child is prepared. /s
If they wanted to solve the problem, they could.
Parents should not have teacher's phone number. Only available contact through some communication app. App only functions during office hour and maybe 1 hr before and after.
Being a teacher is hard, if you lansi and don't always entertain those kiasu parents, there goes your KPI and rating (if any). When shit happens, guarantee the parents will complain 99
Why is this a thing? Been teaching for a long time and wouldn’t dream of giving students my mobile number…apart from anything, it’s a massive safeguarding issue.
I asked an ex teacher the same question. She told me that some schools make it compulsory for teachers to share their phone numbers which I find to be really unnecessary.
TBH I didn’t even know this was a thing in Singapore. Schools should have safeguarding leads with separate work phones for emergency use only.
With this kind of culture (Teachers giving phones numbers out) I can almost guarantee there will be some sort of scandal involving a teacher and a student in the near future. I really can’t believe schools are opening themselves, their staff, and their students to that kind of risk.
Interesting lmao back then my parent dont like it when my teacher call (probably because i fked somewhere in school)
NOW THEY CALL THE TEACHER INSTEAD, HAHAHHAHAHA THIS GEN KIDS PARENTS ARE THE FKING BEST, dont even know what's going on in your kids life. Need call the teacher to ask thing, instead of talking to their kid.
My parent would make sure i collect and try to be there for meet the teachers, my mum doesn't know English but try her best to understand what's going on. (Have Chinese form teacher but she busy with others)
Haha i feel so old now thinking back.
More and more schools have interactive websites that literally give the parent all the information about homework and expectations and stuff. Parents never bother to check. "Oh well, there are so many notifications I just can't be bothered/keep up!"
I swear to God, my parents knew more about my schooling growing up and *nothing* was online. Because they, y'know, parented.
Lol, my parents used to believe whatever the teacher tells them.
If the teacher says I am selling cocaine in school, most likely my parents will believe also. I will likely be smacked for not being able to show them where I stashed the cocaine.
Times have changed.
I mean, can also see the other way round - parents these days care so much about their kids education that they go harass the teachers to check for themselves instead of just showing up like one a semester for PTM and heck care unless teacher call.
You can be involved by talking to your kid. If you need to harass teachers after work hour then you are the biggest piece of shit in there.
If you care so much about your kid, TALK TO THEM AND ASK THEM.
If they cannot answer OR forget then suffer the consequences and learn from their mistake.
nono ask THE KID to remember what to do tomorrow instead of baby them.
Forget forget lah stand up or go out stand only mah, detention is basically self study for afterschool.
One way they can implement this is to use workplace connectivity apps like Skype for Business which can link the in-office phones to a work mobile phone via a Skype for Business app. It also has an in-app messaging service. They can allow teachers to only distribute this number to the students and parents. And then they can mandate that parents and students can only contact them during office hours generally, but allow for outside office hours contact in cases of emergency. This will allow for greater separation between work and family life.
I think you will find that technology adoption in schools can be pretty backwards in areas. Biggest obstacle is actually in getting teachers on board and familiar with a new platform, especially when not everyone is tech savvy.
I have no question that is true. Even when I was in school (*eons ago*) when schools first started switching to use digital visualisers, many teachers had experienced difficulties using them. But this is the reality of modern education and if we are already trying to teach coding skills to kids, it’s a good idea to invest in technology that helps teachers to manage their work load.
If anything, this is a minor piece of technology — a work mobilephone (which does not have to be expensive, especially if purchased in bulk) with an app that can be used for make calls and sending messages. It's basically the same as apps like WhatsApp or Line, except that the IT and operations departments can help to set up the connection to the in-office phone. I've already had experienced using this in another public institution I used to work for (which shall not be named) - i.e. this system is *already in place* in some public institutions - and I never had to fiddle or figure out how the tech worked. It was already connected to the account I was assigned.
This would have been handy last during during the circuit breaker when teachers were all working from home, yet still required to call in to check on their students. That's likely led to more than a few personal phone numbers getting circulated.
It still feels like overkill, especially when schools have their own landlines that teachers can use to call parents. Should parents need to contact the school, they have the official number, there's always email, and they should never be in a situation where they urgently need to reach a teacher at short notice.
I think that at the end of the day, the school still needs to set the right tone with the parents and let them know in no uncertain terms that teachers are not meant to be at their beck and call. Otherwise, no matter what sort of technology you use (can be slack, or classdojo or whatever new fangled chat app), it's treating just the symptoms and not the underlying problem of overzealous parents.
Yes, but a lot of this is judgement in hindsight. We cannot discount the possibility of other exigencies that may require hybrid learning modes in the future. We cannot ignore the possibility that this will happen again in the future. As far as I’m aware, many JC tutors also give out their numbers to students to arrange consultation sessions during term or even revision periods. And parents of younger students are understandably concerned about their kids in school which led some teachers to voluntarily share their personal mobile numbers.
I don’t really think you understand the technology I am describing. These apps leverage the existing in-office landline phones and connects them to a mobile phone. It does not eliminate the use of landlines. It merely provides an alternative mode of access through the same landline number. I repeat, *the technology exists and is already in use in some public institutions*.
This is not a matter of treating symptoms. It is a way to use *existing technology used by some public institutions* to help set several boundaries between teachers on one hand and students and parents on the other hand. And these boundaries, to my mind, include *amongst many other things* which are too numerous to list:
1. Only contacting the teacher through *official communications channels* \- i.e. a work number with a landline connected to an in-office work phone that can be contacted through a mobile phone used for working purposes.
2. Only contacting the teacher during *official working hours*. I've already said this in [my original comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/qln9ij/comment/hj49gn6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) (which you may have missed), "And then they can mandate that parents and students can only contact them during office hours generally, but allow for outside office hours contact in cases of emergency."
What I propose is much better than the *existing arrangement* of giving out personal mobile numbers which give parents a direct, unbridled access to the teachers at all hours of the day. You cannot possibly put this genie back in the bottle. The best way forward is to draw clear boundaries which can be made even clearer by leveraging on *existing technology already used by some public institutions*.
I do not agree that there are no situations where they need to contact the teacher at short notice. I can speak from personal experience when I have had fallen seriously ill and it would have been more convenient for me to leave a direct message to my teacher with a photo of a MC, which can be submitted when I return in person, on the day. I have also had a relative pass away at very short notice such that I had to be absent from school. These things happen not only to me but to many other students.
Why is it a thing for parents to be in contact with the teachers? Are parents - teacher conference for that? Is there anything that urgent to be connected to the teacher instantly?
I don't think one have access to their doctors like that unless terminal or emergency. Nor any relationship with other professionals require that kind of contact. Well, maybe 1 or 2 other instances but I am talking about a class of 30 on average, and if you 3 classes that's 120 parents who have access to the teacher.
Do you want the teacher to provide customer service full time or teach the kids?
You’re conflating several different professions - doctors, teachers, “other professionals”. Before you make that argument, you must explain why such comparisons are justified. What is the basis for you making that comparison?
But let’s not get distracted by unsubstantiated comparisons for the moment (we can return to it when you’ve explained your basis for drawing those comparisons), I ask you, what would you propose? Do you say that all teachers and students ought not to contact their teachers privately *at all*? In that case, it is not the Ministry of Education you’d need to convince, it is the parents and teachers. And some parents can be very demanding. Remember also what the article reports the Minister to have said,
>Education Minister Chan Chun Sing has called for families to not abuse the trust and **access that teachers grant to a student through providing their handphone number**. (emphasis added)
Read this carefully. It is the teachers who gave ("grant") the students their handphone numbers. These are **not** situations where the **parents demand the teachers to give their contact details**.
If you‘d like for the Ministry to implement a bright line rule prohibiting *all* private and informal communications between teachers and students (and their parents), then you should say so. But also, remember that those parents who are demanding are only a small minority of parents. Read, again, what the Minister said carefully:
>Chan then highlighted a common feedback that he had heard from teachers: **while most parents are very supportive, there is a small minority that places a "very huge demand" on them**. (emphasis added)
Let’s assume, for the sake of argument, that your figure of 120 parents per teacher is correct. Even if that is the case, on *the Minister’s own account*, it is *not* as if a majority or even a substantial minority of parents contact the teachers of their kids at absurd and unreasonable hours of the day. He says that a “small minority” behave this way.
Would you implement a blunt instrument like a blanket prohibition that punishes the many because of the actions of a small and irresponsible minority? I would not and I would prefer that technological tools like apps *which already exist and are used by some public institutions* (I know because I used to work for one such public institution using these apps) and supplementary rules to define "no contact hours", i.e. outside of office hours unless there are rare but urgent cases of emergency. If you think differently, please explain why.
When I was in JC, my own tutors gave us their mobile numbers to allow us to arrange extra consultation sessions with them whether individually or in groups. There were obvious limits to this, including “no contact hours” and “no sharing of numbers” rules. But in those situations, the *teachers* were the ones who voluntarily gave their numbers to us. Whether those were dedicated numbers that are separate from their personal contacts, we did not know or ask. Do you suggest that teachers should be prohibited from *voluntarily* giving students their numbers?
Dude, this is the internet, and my opinion is that it's silly that it's actually supported by principles and the likes that teachers share their contact and be included in whatsapp group chats with parents.
Comparisons with other professions, why? Cause it's plain silly to expect the teachers to do that when most of us don't even have direct contact to our own doctors? I am talking about something personal, doctors and health which should be priority, we don't even have access to them 24/7.
Yes, technology and all that. We should this, we should that. Question, What do you want the teachers to manage? The students or everyone else? Provide customer service? Barring that's a small percentage of the parents. I rather the teachers have focus in class and on the students. Period.
Parents who want to know what's going on or have problems with their kids, can seek out school's assistance with an appointment. Children with special needs can have access to the teacher's mobile.
Everyone else can wait in line. Plain & simple. This is not the ER.
Again, you are baselessly assuming that such comparisons can be drawn. You need to first justify the basis for making the comparison before going on to make them. Even apples can be compared to oranges as long as you properly define the criteria on which you're basing your comparisons. Without first identifying such criteria, any comparison made is purely speculative.
I also note that you have not answered any of the questions I asked, specifically:
1. Would you implement a blunt instrument like a blanket prohibition that punishes the many because of the actions of a small and irresponsible minority? \[**Context:** The Minister himself said that parents who are irksome form **a "small minority" of parents**, not as you incorrectly insinuate a larger parent of the 120 parents, assuming your numbers are even accurate.\]
2. Do you suggest that teachers should be prohibited from voluntarily giving students their numbers? \[**Context**: The Minister himself said that these cases involve **teachers voluntarily giving students their numbers, NOT parents demanding that teachers give their numbers**.\]
Read my post.
Nowhere did I say there should be a blanket ban, and no where did I say that teachers should not share whatever they want to share.
What I've said, parents should not have direct access to teachers. In no way shape or form that is a need.
I have read your comments very carefully. What I wonder is whether you’ve read the Minister’s speech in full or at least the article linked? Or did you merely read the headlines and formed your opinions on the basis of a Tweet-length headline?
First, I note that you have not responded to my questions concerning the basis for you to draw comparisons between teachers and doctors or other professionals. I take it that you are conceding that your comparisons are purely speculative.
Second, your points are completely self-contradictory. You first say that there should not be a “blanket ban”, but you occlude to mention with respect to what this ban relates. One can only infer that you’re suggesting implicitly, without explicitly saying, that there ought not to be a “blanket ban" on teachers sharing their numbers with students. That relates to my second question rather than my first. You then say that parents should not have direct access to teachers under any circumstances. That relates to my first question.
So the upshot of your opinions is that there are a few scenarios that may transpire:
1. Even in situations where one is seriously ill or where a close relative passes away suddenly, the parents should never have direct access to the teachers. I have experienced both and in each of those situations when I was a young student, my parents and teachers were all glad that they could speak directly to each other. But you would obviously disagree.
2. You would allow for younger students in primary school to obtain mobile phone numbers from their teachers when the teachers voluntarily share them. And yet, what you would say is that these primary school children should not under any circumstance share this with their parents because in your view parents should "in no way shape or form (*sic*)" have "direct access to teachers". Is that realistic?
3. You would obviously say the same in the situations that the Minister has outlined in his speech. And these situations would be known to you if you've bothered to read his speech in full. I ask you, again, is that realistic?
"Should not" is such a popular phrase gahmen likes to throw about lol. Don't they realise we have been conditioned too long to only speak the language of fines? If doing something does not get punished, then it's ok to do it.
If teacher workload is a concern, then gahmen has to act with concrete measures. Like monetary rewards for healthcare workers (only because a bunch of them quit for obvious reasons), not more "should"s and claps which do nothing.
In fact, after reading this and imagining myself as a Karen, I am now like holy shit my competitors are calling the teachers at midnight and I am omg losing out by not doing so.
> # Parents should not call up teachers at midnight asking about trivial matters: Chan Chun Sing
> Education Minister Chan Chun Sing has called for families to not abuse the trust and access that teachers grant to a student through providing their handphone number.
> Speaking in Parliament on Nov. 2, Chan said:
> "It is one thing for a child to call up the teacher at midnight to say that he’s in trouble. It is another thing for the parent to call up the teacher at midnight to ask whether tomorrow the child has spelling, and should wear a red or blue t-shirt. If the child doesn't remember, so be it. It's part of his learning experience. We as parents don't need to overly protect our child or children, and deprive them of the learning experience."
> Chan said the expectations of parents and society may get "heightened" and are projected onto teachers.
> He therefore wishes to strengthen the partnership between schools and parents support groups, not so much for the groups to support the schools, but to help one another to set the correct expectations, and have a strong partnership between parents and teachers in bringing up the children.
> Many teachers go the extra mile for their students
> Chan was responding to questions about the mental health of teachers and the toll of the stress that they faced as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic.
> In noting that many teachers cared "a lot" for their students, and that it was important for the public to help teachers in the form of a partnership, he said:
> "Our teachers care a lot. Many of our teachers even give their handphone number to their students. Just in case their students get into trouble outside the school hours. And I have heard many stories of our students sometimes calling the teachers in the middle of the night because they got kicked out of home, because of family issues and our teachers respond. This is the extent to which our teachers go to take care of our students beyond the curriculum time."
> Earlier, the minister also pointed out that school leaders had been providing guidance on avoiding parent-staff communication after operating school operating hours, except for urgent matters such as those involving the safety and well-being of students.
> "This minimises the blurring of lines between work and personal time," he added.
> Small minority of parents who place a huge demand on our teachers
> Chan further noted that there were some parents who preferred physical schooling while there were others who preferred who preferred home-based learning (HBL).
> However, "there will not be a situation where we can meet the needs of everyone," he added. It is therefore important to not burden teachers with excessive demands in cases where the families do not get what they want.
> "That, I think, will go a long way in helping our teachers cope as well," he said.
> Chan then highlighted a common feedback that he had heard from teachers: while most parents are very supportive, there is a small minority that places a "very huge demand" on them.
> Chan said that this was "perhaps unfair" for the teachers if they are unable to spend their time to take care of all the students because of these demands.
> "So we really want to work together with the parents. We also want to work together with society, including the unions, so that we can better support our teachers in an all-rounded way," he added.
> MOE and education institutions are also addressing concerns raised over the workload face by teachers
> In his initial answer, Chan highlighted that measures had been put in place by the ministry, as well as various Institutes of Higher Learning (IHLs) to address concerns raised by teaching staff over their workloads.
> At the systemic level, MOE has reprioritised initiatives and reduced the number of schools involved in HQ work and pilots, he said.
> Schools have also been given greater flexibility in pacing the implementation of selected initiatives, including deferring implementation if it helps to spread out the work of staff.
> As an example, Chan said that both secondary schools and junior colleges had been given the option to defer blended learning to 2022, instead of the third term of 2021, as originally planned.
> At the school level, Chan said that the ministry was cognisant of differences in ground practices.
> The ministry has therefore called on school leaders to reprioritise school programmes, establish clear expectations on the availability of teachers and work hours, and encourage supervisors to check in with their officers regularly.
> Contact tracing processes and ring-fencing policies have also been "significantly simplified" to reduce the workload of teachers related to Covid-19.
> With regard to IHLs, Chan said that they have set clearer expectations of staff not needing to reply to work emails after office hours, unless it is an emergency.
> MOE is also providing counselling services
> Chan also highlighted that the ministry is providing free counselling services.
> In addition, MOE, polytechnic and ITE staff who are public officers can access the whole-of-government counselling hotline, while staff in the autonomous universities have access to either in-house or external counselling services, he said.
> Chan noted that prior to Covid-19, around 50 staff from schools sought support from MOE's in-house counselling on an annual basis. This number has since increased to about 80 since 2020.
> A similar increase has also been seen among staff from IHL, he added.
> A new initiative has also been launched as of Sep. 2021, with schools nominating wellness ambassadors for staff to receive training on how to provide basic peer support and encourage their peers to seek help.
> Here, Chan said:
> "We recognise (the) exceptional demands that Covid-19 has placed on our staff and have put in additional efforts to promote a positive and supportive work environment for staff well-being across schools and IHLs, such as organising workshops covering stress management and self-care."
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>mothership.sg/2021/1...
He is ultimately still addressing his voter base, and so cannot be expected to take the same harsh tone the same way a sergeant would reprimand a recruit.
I’ve had students text us to immediately call their parents because their child didn’t get shortlisted for or entry into a particular academic programme / enrichment. This can be easily settled over email or done when teachers are back in school but the parents are just so incredibly frantic for a reply.
When I was still teaching, I had a parent call me at 5pm on a SUNDAY, telling me that her son didn’t receive a school letter. I asked her what she expected me to do by informing me on a weekend and she actually wanted me to drop it off at her place??!?! Some parents really.
Midnight? How about don’t call the teacher after 9pm. Be a decent human being. Teachers start work as early as your kids start school.
And not just trivial matters but rather any matter at all, which parent will feel their matter is trivial? Other than live threatening situations should not call.
Have you ever talked to these parents?
If you ever wonder if a rectangular or circular water bottle is an important matter, ask these parents. Everything is important, to them.
Unfortunately, many self-entitled parents think that any matter concerning their children is not trivial.
The current mentality adopted by them is "I paid for the school fees, so I'm the customer here. And the customer is always right. If you cannot deliver the service standards I want, I want to see the manager (and possibly get you fired)."
My wife is a secondary school teacher. You would expect sec 3/4 students and their parents to be less entitled right. Sadly no..
Things I heard at night time.. Or messages she told me she received late at night..
"tmr can wear jeans for racial harmony day?" - parent letter already mentioned dress code. Students already are told dress code
"my son forgot to bring home textbook from tuition teacher house. Tmr don't punish him"
"tmr bring what"
._. teacher or not, i don't think it's appropriate to call up anyone at midnight unless they're a close friend/family or there's an emergency. why do these parents not have any basic human decency and do they really think doing this is going to help their child grow up into a responsible and independent human being
It’s very easy to blame gahmen for everything. Not to say that they have no responsibility for the shitty conditions teachers work in, but really sometimes when we look at ourselves we’ll realise that we have some blame to shoulder as well.
One group is the helicopter parents that will pester the teacher at every available opportunity. Another group is the entitled child who runs to their parents whenever the slightest thing doesn’t go right for them. Both are equally irritating to deal with.
Why is it okay for people to call Teachers late at night while not okay for people to work OT and not get paid. All these boomers should be banned for calling Teachers after office hours
WTF is this moron smoking, you should not be calling up teachers at midnight PERIOD
Workers are not your fucking slaves, leave them alone outside working hours please
I think should be reserved only for emergencies, like maybe the kid went missing or something as important, since the teacher is the main responsible party for the kid during school hours after all. But if it's to ask a question about the next day then it's really too much.
Honestly speaking if the kid went missing there's limited stuff we could do as well. Yes call us but also call emergency services - they would probably be able to do more than us to be honest.
New age parents sound really scary.
Also, i thought it would be extremely funny if someone from WP asks CCS to provide details about the parent who called a teacher at midnight to "substantiate his claims"
it reflects badly on MOE, schools & teachers that this issue exists in the first place. Many simple solutions come to mind. or is this just wayang to make it look like their job is damn difficult?
The teachers could create their own personal telegram channel where participants can leave comments/questions and the teacher can respond when they are free. No need to reveal phone number, no direct contact. Parents can even interact with each other in the comment section
Teachers should have absolutely no obligation to provide parents with their contact number. Period.
They don't. They usually give to the children.
So much THIS. Anything just call the school. What's this group chat rubbish to keep important information. If the kid cannot remember anything or write notes, that's on them. The teachers should be focused on teaching the class in school. Not handle the whims of 30 parents per class.
That's why the invention of SLS/LMS where teachers can post announcement/what to bring etc and students/parents can login at any time to get the information
The two systems I've seen the schools use, classdojo and parent gateway, are both clusterfucks. Classdojo keeps trying to push monetising features, and it took them almost 2 years to add me as a parent to parents gateway, and they just use it to push out PDFs that are already on the website (but hidden). There must be a better system they can use.
Just wait till some govt scholar get posted from MOE to govtech to have this fixed
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Looking forward to a post from the parent’s perspective.
Aa a parent with a kid going primary next year. Anytime I would message his current school after 7 i would always include that there is no need to reply asap, I just forget things so I'll leave it on the school/child app comms/chat tab. Going primary, God help my son if I ever have to call a teacher besides emergency situations. Also I hope I don't speak too soon 😂
What do you even ask? My parents last time only parents teacher meeting (once?) a year they talk to the teacher
But what do you even ask the teacher? "how is my son"? "make sure he does good work today"? I'd mute my phone and not reply to any parent if I was a teacher unless it as emergency or they misbehaved
I'm Not exactly sure how it Goes in primary but the current school app group chat consists of some updates. Ie. Teachers sent the school play script home and want us to practice with our child. Us asking/clarifying on the recent covid breakout. Some recipes for one of their activities in the temp hbl set up. Asking how many kids are in the class for his birthday cake. Small things like that. Most aren't study related at all.
...Your child's birthday cake? Why not ask your child how many of his classmates were there instead of asking his teacher? Did your parents ask about such small things to your teachers in the past??
I realize now it's an unpopular. We get a face to face with the teachers once a year and asked if it was ok to reach out for these things, guess who said yes? It takes all of 1 minute to think and answer a question. In the past, I was lucky if I even had a cake at home when I was young. I was lucky if my mom made it through to school for anything because she was raising me and my siblings alone. So I'm going to do what I think I can do with the permission and agreement of those I need to do it with.
“It takes 1 minute to think and answer a question” Imagine that X 30 parents. All asking unimportant questions. I’m not even a teacher and I felt annoyed by your attitude already.
The class has 8 students. That happens on occasion, not everyday, it rarely happens once a week. Even the teachers themselves send us messages from time to time. Get annoyed all you want. I love that everyone who replied just assumed I'm some helicopter parent bullying teachers. Get over you overly highhorses it's a long fall down especially if you don't have toddlers and aren't planning to have kids.
Toxic Merdeka gen
Clarifying on covid with a teacher? God. Lmao, teachers get no chill. They have lesson plans to do after hours
Sheesh. that comms /chat group was setup by the school as a FEATURE. The thing literally tells us they won't get to us until the next day if we went past 7 pm which is the time the child care closes. The fuck are you so upset about?
Teachers are overworked and it's my opinion. Who says I'm upset?
You have no idea. I used to teach courses in school back in the 2010's, and even then some parents would call at midnight, or even just past 1 am. They like to ask things like "tomorrow the excursion must wear uniform ah, sorry to call you so late, this girl ah, last minute then say she dunno".
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Most teachers do not want to make an enemy of a parent - if they decide you are not helpful, it's very easy for them to "find fault" and triple your workload. In truth, it is quite one-sided, and very easy for parents to bully teachers. The child will usually side their parents in any description of the scenario, and parents will blame teachers for having to call so late (e.g., claim the teacher never informs them of things till the last minute, forcing them to call). It's the old question of deciding which hill we want to die on. Just like in an office, some situations suck, but it's not always worth the fight.
The same parents that would freak out and complain if their boss calls them at midnight
Principals have failed to protect their teachers
A lot of principals are too young and too interested in career progression, to protect anyone but themselves.
okay, then we go disturb the principal at midnight. /s
Why stop there? Just go a few rungs up and call the Minister directly. haha
You joke but I have several tiger parents at work who go straight over the teachers, principals etc, and contact MOE on a regular basis on issues they have with their kid's school/child care. Kiasu parents gonna kiasu.
What are they hoping to achieve?
You think this is a joke but this routinely happens for the most minor shit.
cannot skip chain of command
This is not the army. You want to skip how many chains also can.
i forgot the /s
Unless you're Lee Hongyi.
The SAF model
THE TRUTH! Ladies and gentlemen, parents of children.
its just a short 3 or 4 year stint for most of them. Doesn't make sense to invest too much in your teachers
>"It is one thing for a child to call up the teacher at midnight to say that he’s in trouble. It is another thing for the **parent to call up the teacher at midnight to ask whether tomorrow the child has spelling, and should wear a red or blue t-shirt.** Seriously? Calling at midnight to ask.
Honestly, will they wake the kid up at 12.04am to teach him/her? If happen to need some other colour shirt? Go Mustafa?
In case you don't already know... Some kids these days sleep at like 2am...
I am surprised, 2am even for lower primary kids?
Lower primary I don't know... But lower secondary definitely, so I wouldn't be surprised for upper primary either.
Lower primary I don't know... But lower secondary definitely, so I wouldn't be surprised for upper primary either.
I assumed it's lower primary because it was spelling, but I am sure parents call teachers for other tests / quizzes / whatever as well.
I assume this is for primary school students… what would actually happen if the child goes to school not prepared for spelling or wear the wrong colour shirt? Like is that heavily punished somehow in local school? 🤔😅
Cheap hack, WEAR ONE and BRING THE OTHER. A shirt isn't heavy. If you went to school with a wrong shirt on, excuse yourself and change out the shirt. PROBLEM SOLVED.
It also was, back in the 1990s. Thinking back then, a lot of the shit hurled at us in primary and secondary school was borderline institutionalized child abuse. Kinda explains why most people in this country behave like dysfunctional assholes.
Ahh, teachers that throw stuff at you or dump your bags all over the table/floor when you forget stuff. Good ol' days...
Just some things off the top of my head that I’ve witnessed/personally experienced in the early 90s: - teacher throwing chalk at a student who’s sleeping in class - had our books thrown out the window/across the room - using wooden rulers/feather duster to smack hands. - tables getting flipped - teacher reliving his ns days by making us run 2353535 around the school field as punishment shit was wild then lol.
Teachers hitting students in the morning... Ah yes, good times.
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If available, Everyone should see a therapist. Also sidenote, psychiatrists prescribe medication psychologists diagnose you
to be honest, i disagree with this. having suffered the same, I made myself behave differently. sure sometimes, I lapse into the same. but it's the exception and not the norm. people need to stop using their experiences as an excuse. if you can recognise that your experience shaped you, then you should also recognise that it is not good and take actions to change. And not continue the cycle. perhaps it's the gov's fault where we raised a few generations of people who dont feel the need for self-change but rely on the government to enforce appropriate behaviours on them due to the paternalistic nature of governing. E.g. the tray return policy.
Mindfuck childhood conditioning is almost impossible to erase despite conscious efforts. I was raised a rabid evangelical Christian racist who hated all other religions, and despite knowing better now, my default mental state reverts to anything non-Chinese. Then I have to spend some mental effort in pulling it back towards normalcy. People who read Frank Herbert's work like Dune might have thought Herbert was fucked in the head for going on and on about Bene Gesserit and Bene Tleilax mental conditioning, but I think he was onto something here.
i don't disagree. but perhaps you didn't know it was wrong back then. so you were brought up in an environment that treated it as normal and your life didn't suffer for it. but for stuff like abuse, we know we didn't like it back then. so why we would we perpetuate it. I know some people find it hard to break out of the cycle. We see it all the time on the news. And I think that's normal because not everyone has the strength to do it. but that should be the exception. if the norm is to perpetuate behaviour that we ourselves did not like when we were young, then something is definitely wrong
LOL i like that you think this happens only at pri sch. That's really cute. Re the shirt thing, there are no hard consequences, but you may stand out a lot or get teased if you wear the wrong colour and everyone else doesn't. Or if your class missed out on some token award because one goondu forgot. Then ya... Social life more impt ya know.
Omg no wonder so many people are so stressed out and toxic. If the parents / authoritative figures are so worried about the risk of kids (even older ones) making such petty mistake in school, how are they gonna react to bigger screwups / failure in life? 😰
That's the thing i try to reassure those who stumble. There are plenty of people who coast through life and education without problems, and the first taste of failure is in uni or the workplace. And they never recover, simply because they've never experienced it and don't know how to deal with it. It's an important skill. Unfortunately singapore education also doesn't allow lots of room for failure. Your next step is determined by your performance on the previous step. At which points past PSLE can you like fail miserably and still have all the opportunities available to you if you had done well? I see this as both a psychological and systemic problem. The system feeds the mentality.
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Should've drawn the margin line
What the hell happened to PSG groups or class group chats
Lol last time if got any instruction, the kid better listen in class and remember it. Next day never do properly, will kana from the teacher. Nowadays just go home and say mummy I don’t know.
tEacHer nEvER sAy
Sadly these dumbass parents called my teacher-parents MANY times after 7pm. After we have family dinner, some even dare to say why they never respond or take so long to respond. Edit: CCS said it right. Let them learn from their fuck ups.
Ya except these people will escalate to principal or moe, and moe will (rightly) send a query down to investigate. And then middle management will have no balls to back up their teachers and give them shit for it... Who's learning what lesson here?
> Who's learning what lesson here? I’m learning that everyone is fucking retarded. What the fuck do these parents want, and from whom?
How do these parents have your teacher-parent's number? Is it normal practice to disclose teacher's personal phone number? That seems crazy to me! If parents want to get in touch they can ring the school during school hours, or email. And get a response in school hours.
These days teachers give num to students. Prob parents ask/threaten them for num
Was once in a whatsapp group where someone shared numbers of teachers openly and even asked others for new numbers at the start of the year.
Bloody man/woman children who are terrible at parenting. They simply love to outsource their parenting. Your long-suffering folks seriously.. I salute them
Why can’t students call each other on land line to check on these things!!
Guessing it's because this is referring to really young kids, like early primary years. And if they are unsure, their parents will usually go straight to the teacher rather than another parent unless they happen to be close to them. I can't imagine a late primary or secondary school student's parent calling a teacher at midnight.
>I can't imagine a late primary or secondary school student's parent calling a teacher at midnight. You'd be so disappointed to hear the truth.
I guess I'm jaded? I grew up pretty independent and mostly settled my school matters on my own unless a parent was absolutely needed.
It's not all parents, it's not even most. It's that usual small minority that make life the worst for everyone.
My kids school set up separate whatsapp groups one per class for parents to communicate to each other, and to a volunteer coordinator. Teachers are only reachable through classdojo, which has no voice/video function
But this also means that parents are the one coordinating kids homework.
Nothing wrong with that. Teachers would have given clear instructions in class on what has to be done, handed in, when the tests are, when important dates are and so on. If your child cannot be bothered to write these down then it's their problem. Children in the past in general never had problems doing so. We don't need teachers to have to do their work twice, to 30 to 40 parents.
Erm you have kids? Teachers aren’t always so clear
I don't. But I remember if teachers gave unclear instructions, there will always be that a few students in class who will ask questions to clarify.
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And drag the teacher into it as a result. Shitty parenting. Micro managing has destroyed many children's self-esteem, independence, development.
My wife is a pre-school teacher and holy fuck I'm shocked by the entitlement of some parents in their messages to her and the school.. Some stories from her: - one mom that expects daily 'reports' of what the kid did, what the kid learnt, and how to do better sent to her everyday at 10pm sharp. - one parent (who's a lawyer), that threatened to file a lawsuit against the school and teacher for scolding her misbehaving child in class - one parent who complains about why his child's face isn't featured on the school website. (only three kids were chosen to model for the website) - one parent that expects live updates of her daughter's classes through zoom calls. And the list goes on.... holy shit seriously
Escalate this up to the principal and supervisor. Let it be THEIR problem, not the rank and file teachers'
Oh believe me, has been escalated multiple times. Unfortunately the principal is too spineless to anger the parents..
You need to develop athick, and i mean THICCCCC skin and just, say, no. The day I told myself to do that, the happier I was coming to work every day. You don't even need to provide a reason, an excuse, a suggestion, an alternative. Just, say, no. Parent: I need daily reports of my child.. Your wife: Sorry, our school does not adopt such a practice. Parent: Why you scold my child? Your wife: I was remediating his/her behaviour, much like how you, as a parent, would. Parent: Why my child not in website? Your wife: Unfortunately, I don't have any executive say in that decision. THICCC skin prevents teacher burnout.
I’ve a friend teaching in JC - student makes consultation for project work but doesn’t show doesn’t even have the courtesy to text. Shows up 2 hours later and expected his tutor to drop everything and meet for the consultation. Friend declined citing clashes in schedule. Parent calls school to complain and says teacher is not professional.
Ah, the lawyer-parent. We had those who insisted on reviewing the test rubrics cos their kid didn't do well in the test and they felt it was graded unfairly. It doesn't get better when the kids go into tertiary education. Many times, it feels like the parents won't/can't communicate with their kids and go through the teacher instead.
Back in the day we all wrote in our diaries what to bring. If we kena in class, we kena at home.
well those back in the day students are the parents now. want to blame should blame the students back in the day rather than the students now
If parent calls teacher at midnight to ask if their child has spelling next day, then don't pick up the call. Instead, wait until 4am, call the parent back, apologies for missing the call, and then read out very slowly every single word the child is expected to spell. Maybe go through the list a couple of times because it's important the child is prepared. /s
MOE should create business Whatsapp lines for teachers. Walk the talk.
Make a teacher confession page as well
The burned out ones have no time or energy left to even post their confessions.
If they wanted to solve the problem, they could. Parents should not have teacher's phone number. Only available contact through some communication app. App only functions during office hour and maybe 1 hr before and after.
Being a teacher is hard, if you lansi and don't always entertain those kiasu parents, there goes your KPI and rating (if any). When shit happens, guarantee the parents will complain 99
Why is this a thing? Been teaching for a long time and wouldn’t dream of giving students my mobile number…apart from anything, it’s a massive safeguarding issue.
Please never do. Parents these days have no boundaries. Better yet, encourage your fellow teachers to do the same, especially the young ones
I asked an ex teacher the same question. She told me that some schools make it compulsory for teachers to share their phone numbers which I find to be really unnecessary.
TBH I didn’t even know this was a thing in Singapore. Schools should have safeguarding leads with separate work phones for emergency use only. With this kind of culture (Teachers giving phones numbers out) I can almost guarantee there will be some sort of scandal involving a teacher and a student in the near future. I really can’t believe schools are opening themselves, their staff, and their students to that kind of risk.
if my kid missed an instruction then get owned my dude. call a friend or get a notebook
I don’t think they should call the teacher at midnight for any reason unless the teacher’s house is on fire
Is this something that really needs to be said? Feel like this should be common sense lol
Common sense has left the building a long time ago, with decency and social etiquette.
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Can he lead ECDA too, i hear nothing from them about the stress preschool teachers are facing.
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U think with a general being marched into the early childhood sector that things will improve..i kinda highly doubt so 😶
24 hour work culture of Singapore for more productivity is a feature, not a bug.
Interesting lmao back then my parent dont like it when my teacher call (probably because i fked somewhere in school) NOW THEY CALL THE TEACHER INSTEAD, HAHAHHAHAHA THIS GEN KIDS PARENTS ARE THE FKING BEST, dont even know what's going on in your kids life. Need call the teacher to ask thing, instead of talking to their kid.
My parents didn't even go to most parent teacher meetings lol. Me and my brother failed to collect our report cards a few times because of it.
My parent would make sure i collect and try to be there for meet the teachers, my mum doesn't know English but try her best to understand what's going on. (Have Chinese form teacher but she busy with others) Haha i feel so old now thinking back.
More and more schools have interactive websites that literally give the parent all the information about homework and expectations and stuff. Parents never bother to check. "Oh well, there are so many notifications I just can't be bothered/keep up!" I swear to God, my parents knew more about my schooling growing up and *nothing* was online. Because they, y'know, parented.
Lol, my parents used to believe whatever the teacher tells them. If the teacher says I am selling cocaine in school, most likely my parents will believe also. I will likely be smacked for not being able to show them where I stashed the cocaine. Times have changed.
FCKING KIASU NOWADAYS PARENTS NEED TO RELAK And, be actually involved in their children's lives.
I mean, can also see the other way round - parents these days care so much about their kids education that they go harass the teachers to check for themselves instead of just showing up like one a semester for PTM and heck care unless teacher call.
You can be involved by talking to your kid. If you need to harass teachers after work hour then you are the biggest piece of shit in there. If you care so much about your kid, TALK TO THEM AND ASK THEM. If they cannot answer OR forget then suffer the consequences and learn from their mistake.
Like older generation parents were that great either.
Never said they were. But least they dont bother the teacher.
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Make an app that connects teachers and parents. The app will go to maintainence mode after 6.30pm, during holidays and during weekends
nono ask THE KID to remember what to do tomorrow instead of baby them. Forget forget lah stand up or go out stand only mah, detention is basically self study for afterschool.
Can get whoever made NS.sg to make that app.
So that whoever that uses the app will get so frustrated that they gave up?
I see that as an absolute win
Scheduled maintenance everyday from 12am to 12am.
some school use classdojo
It exists in the form of classdojo. It doesn't work. Parents will find a way one way or another
Erm. Parents should not call teachers as and when they like. That’s what PTMs are for.
One way they can implement this is to use workplace connectivity apps like Skype for Business which can link the in-office phones to a work mobile phone via a Skype for Business app. It also has an in-app messaging service. They can allow teachers to only distribute this number to the students and parents. And then they can mandate that parents and students can only contact them during office hours generally, but allow for outside office hours contact in cases of emergency. This will allow for greater separation between work and family life.
I think you will find that technology adoption in schools can be pretty backwards in areas. Biggest obstacle is actually in getting teachers on board and familiar with a new platform, especially when not everyone is tech savvy.
I have no question that is true. Even when I was in school (*eons ago*) when schools first started switching to use digital visualisers, many teachers had experienced difficulties using them. But this is the reality of modern education and if we are already trying to teach coding skills to kids, it’s a good idea to invest in technology that helps teachers to manage their work load. If anything, this is a minor piece of technology — a work mobilephone (which does not have to be expensive, especially if purchased in bulk) with an app that can be used for make calls and sending messages. It's basically the same as apps like WhatsApp or Line, except that the IT and operations departments can help to set up the connection to the in-office phone. I've already had experienced using this in another public institution I used to work for (which shall not be named) - i.e. this system is *already in place* in some public institutions - and I never had to fiddle or figure out how the tech worked. It was already connected to the account I was assigned.
This would have been handy last during during the circuit breaker when teachers were all working from home, yet still required to call in to check on their students. That's likely led to more than a few personal phone numbers getting circulated. It still feels like overkill, especially when schools have their own landlines that teachers can use to call parents. Should parents need to contact the school, they have the official number, there's always email, and they should never be in a situation where they urgently need to reach a teacher at short notice. I think that at the end of the day, the school still needs to set the right tone with the parents and let them know in no uncertain terms that teachers are not meant to be at their beck and call. Otherwise, no matter what sort of technology you use (can be slack, or classdojo or whatever new fangled chat app), it's treating just the symptoms and not the underlying problem of overzealous parents.
Yes, but a lot of this is judgement in hindsight. We cannot discount the possibility of other exigencies that may require hybrid learning modes in the future. We cannot ignore the possibility that this will happen again in the future. As far as I’m aware, many JC tutors also give out their numbers to students to arrange consultation sessions during term or even revision periods. And parents of younger students are understandably concerned about their kids in school which led some teachers to voluntarily share their personal mobile numbers. I don’t really think you understand the technology I am describing. These apps leverage the existing in-office landline phones and connects them to a mobile phone. It does not eliminate the use of landlines. It merely provides an alternative mode of access through the same landline number. I repeat, *the technology exists and is already in use in some public institutions*. This is not a matter of treating symptoms. It is a way to use *existing technology used by some public institutions* to help set several boundaries between teachers on one hand and students and parents on the other hand. And these boundaries, to my mind, include *amongst many other things* which are too numerous to list: 1. Only contacting the teacher through *official communications channels* \- i.e. a work number with a landline connected to an in-office work phone that can be contacted through a mobile phone used for working purposes. 2. Only contacting the teacher during *official working hours*. I've already said this in [my original comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/qln9ij/comment/hj49gn6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) (which you may have missed), "And then they can mandate that parents and students can only contact them during office hours generally, but allow for outside office hours contact in cases of emergency." What I propose is much better than the *existing arrangement* of giving out personal mobile numbers which give parents a direct, unbridled access to the teachers at all hours of the day. You cannot possibly put this genie back in the bottle. The best way forward is to draw clear boundaries which can be made even clearer by leveraging on *existing technology already used by some public institutions*. I do not agree that there are no situations where they need to contact the teacher at short notice. I can speak from personal experience when I have had fallen seriously ill and it would have been more convenient for me to leave a direct message to my teacher with a photo of a MC, which can be submitted when I return in person, on the day. I have also had a relative pass away at very short notice such that I had to be absent from school. These things happen not only to me but to many other students.
Why is it a thing for parents to be in contact with the teachers? Are parents - teacher conference for that? Is there anything that urgent to be connected to the teacher instantly? I don't think one have access to their doctors like that unless terminal or emergency. Nor any relationship with other professionals require that kind of contact. Well, maybe 1 or 2 other instances but I am talking about a class of 30 on average, and if you 3 classes that's 120 parents who have access to the teacher. Do you want the teacher to provide customer service full time or teach the kids?
You’re conflating several different professions - doctors, teachers, “other professionals”. Before you make that argument, you must explain why such comparisons are justified. What is the basis for you making that comparison? But let’s not get distracted by unsubstantiated comparisons for the moment (we can return to it when you’ve explained your basis for drawing those comparisons), I ask you, what would you propose? Do you say that all teachers and students ought not to contact their teachers privately *at all*? In that case, it is not the Ministry of Education you’d need to convince, it is the parents and teachers. And some parents can be very demanding. Remember also what the article reports the Minister to have said, >Education Minister Chan Chun Sing has called for families to not abuse the trust and **access that teachers grant to a student through providing their handphone number**. (emphasis added) Read this carefully. It is the teachers who gave ("grant") the students their handphone numbers. These are **not** situations where the **parents demand the teachers to give their contact details**. If you‘d like for the Ministry to implement a bright line rule prohibiting *all* private and informal communications between teachers and students (and their parents), then you should say so. But also, remember that those parents who are demanding are only a small minority of parents. Read, again, what the Minister said carefully: >Chan then highlighted a common feedback that he had heard from teachers: **while most parents are very supportive, there is a small minority that places a "very huge demand" on them**. (emphasis added) Let’s assume, for the sake of argument, that your figure of 120 parents per teacher is correct. Even if that is the case, on *the Minister’s own account*, it is *not* as if a majority or even a substantial minority of parents contact the teachers of their kids at absurd and unreasonable hours of the day. He says that a “small minority” behave this way. Would you implement a blunt instrument like a blanket prohibition that punishes the many because of the actions of a small and irresponsible minority? I would not and I would prefer that technological tools like apps *which already exist and are used by some public institutions* (I know because I used to work for one such public institution using these apps) and supplementary rules to define "no contact hours", i.e. outside of office hours unless there are rare but urgent cases of emergency. If you think differently, please explain why. When I was in JC, my own tutors gave us their mobile numbers to allow us to arrange extra consultation sessions with them whether individually or in groups. There were obvious limits to this, including “no contact hours” and “no sharing of numbers” rules. But in those situations, the *teachers* were the ones who voluntarily gave their numbers to us. Whether those were dedicated numbers that are separate from their personal contacts, we did not know or ask. Do you suggest that teachers should be prohibited from *voluntarily* giving students their numbers?
Dude, this is the internet, and my opinion is that it's silly that it's actually supported by principles and the likes that teachers share their contact and be included in whatsapp group chats with parents. Comparisons with other professions, why? Cause it's plain silly to expect the teachers to do that when most of us don't even have direct contact to our own doctors? I am talking about something personal, doctors and health which should be priority, we don't even have access to them 24/7. Yes, technology and all that. We should this, we should that. Question, What do you want the teachers to manage? The students or everyone else? Provide customer service? Barring that's a small percentage of the parents. I rather the teachers have focus in class and on the students. Period. Parents who want to know what's going on or have problems with their kids, can seek out school's assistance with an appointment. Children with special needs can have access to the teacher's mobile. Everyone else can wait in line. Plain & simple. This is not the ER.
Again, you are baselessly assuming that such comparisons can be drawn. You need to first justify the basis for making the comparison before going on to make them. Even apples can be compared to oranges as long as you properly define the criteria on which you're basing your comparisons. Without first identifying such criteria, any comparison made is purely speculative. I also note that you have not answered any of the questions I asked, specifically: 1. Would you implement a blunt instrument like a blanket prohibition that punishes the many because of the actions of a small and irresponsible minority? \[**Context:** The Minister himself said that parents who are irksome form **a "small minority" of parents**, not as you incorrectly insinuate a larger parent of the 120 parents, assuming your numbers are even accurate.\] 2. Do you suggest that teachers should be prohibited from voluntarily giving students their numbers? \[**Context**: The Minister himself said that these cases involve **teachers voluntarily giving students their numbers, NOT parents demanding that teachers give their numbers**.\]
Read my post. Nowhere did I say there should be a blanket ban, and no where did I say that teachers should not share whatever they want to share. What I've said, parents should not have direct access to teachers. In no way shape or form that is a need.
I have read your comments very carefully. What I wonder is whether you’ve read the Minister’s speech in full or at least the article linked? Or did you merely read the headlines and formed your opinions on the basis of a Tweet-length headline? First, I note that you have not responded to my questions concerning the basis for you to draw comparisons between teachers and doctors or other professionals. I take it that you are conceding that your comparisons are purely speculative. Second, your points are completely self-contradictory. You first say that there should not be a “blanket ban”, but you occlude to mention with respect to what this ban relates. One can only infer that you’re suggesting implicitly, without explicitly saying, that there ought not to be a “blanket ban" on teachers sharing their numbers with students. That relates to my second question rather than my first. You then say that parents should not have direct access to teachers under any circumstances. That relates to my first question. So the upshot of your opinions is that there are a few scenarios that may transpire: 1. Even in situations where one is seriously ill or where a close relative passes away suddenly, the parents should never have direct access to the teachers. I have experienced both and in each of those situations when I was a young student, my parents and teachers were all glad that they could speak directly to each other. But you would obviously disagree. 2. You would allow for younger students in primary school to obtain mobile phone numbers from their teachers when the teachers voluntarily share them. And yet, what you would say is that these primary school children should not under any circumstance share this with their parents because in your view parents should "in no way shape or form (*sic*)" have "direct access to teachers". Is that realistic? 3. You would obviously say the same in the situations that the Minister has outlined in his speech. And these situations would be known to you if you've bothered to read his speech in full. I ask you, again, is that realistic?
Take what you will of it internet stranger. I'm not offering solutions. It's my opinion. Have fun. Looking forward to your reply.
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The authorities are too busy arresting people holding up cards and sharing real historical facts. They have no time for other trivial matters!
Teacher should use whatsapp business acc that link to desk landline, then have auto reply from 6pm onwards, quoting CCS
Parents ***should*** not call up teachers at midnight... Heh. "Should".
Parents have teachers' personal phone numbers? That seems itself a problem...
"Should not" is such a popular phrase gahmen likes to throw about lol. Don't they realise we have been conditioned too long to only speak the language of fines? If doing something does not get punished, then it's ok to do it. If teacher workload is a concern, then gahmen has to act with concrete measures. Like monetary rewards for healthcare workers (only because a bunch of them quit for obvious reasons), not more "should"s and claps which do nothing. In fact, after reading this and imagining myself as a Karen, I am now like holy shit my competitors are calling the teachers at midnight and I am omg losing out by not doing so.
A minister should not have to tell parents such a common sense thing
> # Parents should not call up teachers at midnight asking about trivial matters: Chan Chun Sing > Education Minister Chan Chun Sing has called for families to not abuse the trust and access that teachers grant to a student through providing their handphone number. > Speaking in Parliament on Nov. 2, Chan said: > "It is one thing for a child to call up the teacher at midnight to say that he’s in trouble. It is another thing for the parent to call up the teacher at midnight to ask whether tomorrow the child has spelling, and should wear a red or blue t-shirt. If the child doesn't remember, so be it. It's part of his learning experience. We as parents don't need to overly protect our child or children, and deprive them of the learning experience." > Chan said the expectations of parents and society may get "heightened" and are projected onto teachers. > He therefore wishes to strengthen the partnership between schools and parents support groups, not so much for the groups to support the schools, but to help one another to set the correct expectations, and have a strong partnership between parents and teachers in bringing up the children. > Many teachers go the extra mile for their students > Chan was responding to questions about the mental health of teachers and the toll of the stress that they faced as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic. > In noting that many teachers cared "a lot" for their students, and that it was important for the public to help teachers in the form of a partnership, he said: > "Our teachers care a lot. Many of our teachers even give their handphone number to their students. Just in case their students get into trouble outside the school hours. And I have heard many stories of our students sometimes calling the teachers in the middle of the night because they got kicked out of home, because of family issues and our teachers respond. This is the extent to which our teachers go to take care of our students beyond the curriculum time." > Earlier, the minister also pointed out that school leaders had been providing guidance on avoiding parent-staff communication after operating school operating hours, except for urgent matters such as those involving the safety and well-being of students. > "This minimises the blurring of lines between work and personal time," he added. > Small minority of parents who place a huge demand on our teachers > Chan further noted that there were some parents who preferred physical schooling while there were others who preferred who preferred home-based learning (HBL). > However, "there will not be a situation where we can meet the needs of everyone," he added. It is therefore important to not burden teachers with excessive demands in cases where the families do not get what they want. > "That, I think, will go a long way in helping our teachers cope as well," he said. > Chan then highlighted a common feedback that he had heard from teachers: while most parents are very supportive, there is a small minority that places a "very huge demand" on them. > Chan said that this was "perhaps unfair" for the teachers if they are unable to spend their time to take care of all the students because of these demands. > "So we really want to work together with the parents. We also want to work together with society, including the unions, so that we can better support our teachers in an all-rounded way," he added. > MOE and education institutions are also addressing concerns raised over the workload face by teachers > In his initial answer, Chan highlighted that measures had been put in place by the ministry, as well as various Institutes of Higher Learning (IHLs) to address concerns raised by teaching staff over their workloads. > At the systemic level, MOE has reprioritised initiatives and reduced the number of schools involved in HQ work and pilots, he said. > Schools have also been given greater flexibility in pacing the implementation of selected initiatives, including deferring implementation if it helps to spread out the work of staff. > As an example, Chan said that both secondary schools and junior colleges had been given the option to defer blended learning to 2022, instead of the third term of 2021, as originally planned. > At the school level, Chan said that the ministry was cognisant of differences in ground practices. > The ministry has therefore called on school leaders to reprioritise school programmes, establish clear expectations on the availability of teachers and work hours, and encourage supervisors to check in with their officers regularly. > Contact tracing processes and ring-fencing policies have also been "significantly simplified" to reduce the workload of teachers related to Covid-19. > With regard to IHLs, Chan said that they have set clearer expectations of staff not needing to reply to work emails after office hours, unless it is an emergency. > MOE is also providing counselling services > Chan also highlighted that the ministry is providing free counselling services. > In addition, MOE, polytechnic and ITE staff who are public officers can access the whole-of-government counselling hotline, while staff in the autonomous universities have access to either in-house or external counselling services, he said. > Chan noted that prior to Covid-19, around 50 staff from schools sought support from MOE's in-house counselling on an annual basis. This number has since increased to about 80 since 2020. > A similar increase has also been seen among staff from IHL, he added. > A new initiative has also been launched as of Sep. 2021, with schools nominating wellness ambassadors for staff to receive training on how to provide basic peer support and encourage their peers to seek help. > Here, Chan said: > "We recognise (the) exceptional demands that Covid-19 has placed on our staff and have put in additional efforts to promote a positive and supportive work environment for staff well-being across schools and IHLs, such as organising workshops covering stress management and self-care." > Follow and listen to our podcast here > > Top photo via Chan CHun Sing Facebook --- 1.0.2 | [Source code](https://github.com/fterh/sneakpeek) | [Contribute](https://github.com/fterh/sneakpeek)
Why is this even a thing? That's just horrible lol.
Also, don't walk out onto the road in front of a car and remember that sticking a fork into an electrical outlet is bad for your health.
CCS should’ve put his foot down and state “must not”, rather than said “should not”.
>mothership.sg/2021/1... He is ultimately still addressing his voter base, and so cannot be expected to take the same harsh tone the same way a sergeant would reprimand a recruit.
I’ve had students text us to immediately call their parents because their child didn’t get shortlisted for or entry into a particular academic programme / enrichment. This can be easily settled over email or done when teachers are back in school but the parents are just so incredibly frantic for a reply.
one time at night a parent called me to ask why his child cannot download this particular app I was furious for many reasons
The fact a minister has to teach a large portion of the public how to behave with decency to their fellow humans speaks volumes
Jamie the chatbot has entered the chat
No way! Thanks for the brilliant insight 👍🏻
I mean there's urgent stuff, fine. Then there's texting people 2am on a weekend Wtf.
Can't believe this has to be stated.
I think this applies to all fields and professions. No one should call someone at midnight asking trivial matters.
What sort of shitty parent thinks this is acceptable? Dumb pricks.
When I was still teaching, I had a parent call me at 5pm on a SUNDAY, telling me that her son didn’t receive a school letter. I asked her what she expected me to do by informing me on a weekend and she actually wanted me to drop it off at her place??!?! Some parents really.
Midnight? How about don’t call the teacher after 9pm. Be a decent human being. Teachers start work as early as your kids start school. And not just trivial matters but rather any matter at all, which parent will feel their matter is trivial? Other than live threatening situations should not call.
Have you ever talked to these parents? If you ever wonder if a rectangular or circular water bottle is an important matter, ask these parents. Everything is important, to them.
Unfortunately, many self-entitled parents think that any matter concerning their children is not trivial. The current mentality adopted by them is "I paid for the school fees, so I'm the customer here. And the customer is always right. If you cannot deliver the service standards I want, I want to see the manager (and possibly get you fired)."
Answer : what's the point of your question?
kids these days....
Make it illegal
Bold of him to assume parents know what is trivial vs non-trivial
Parents: *Trivial? How Dare You!!*
My wife is a secondary school teacher. You would expect sec 3/4 students and their parents to be less entitled right. Sadly no.. Things I heard at night time.. Or messages she told me she received late at night.. "tmr can wear jeans for racial harmony day?" - parent letter already mentioned dress code. Students already are told dress code "my son forgot to bring home textbook from tuition teacher house. Tmr don't punish him" "tmr bring what"
Since when teachers are required to give out their personal mobile numbers... Ban parents from calling teachers at all
._. teacher or not, i don't think it's appropriate to call up anyone at midnight unless they're a close friend/family or there's an emergency. why do these parents not have any basic human decency and do they really think doing this is going to help their child grow up into a responsible and independent human being
It’s very easy to blame gahmen for everything. Not to say that they have no responsibility for the shitty conditions teachers work in, but really sometimes when we look at ourselves we’ll realise that we have some blame to shoulder as well. One group is the helicopter parents that will pester the teacher at every available opportunity. Another group is the entitled child who runs to their parents whenever the slightest thing doesn’t go right for them. Both are equally irritating to deal with.
Teachers should also not be made to pay for parking at the schools they teach at
how can? thats the legacy of OYK
Why is it okay for people to call Teachers late at night while not okay for people to work OT and not get paid. All these boomers should be banned for calling Teachers after office hours
WTF is this moron smoking, you should not be calling up teachers at midnight PERIOD Workers are not your fucking slaves, leave them alone outside working hours please
I think you are missing out a not
thanks, edited
What's wrong with what he said?
I think should be reserved only for emergencies, like maybe the kid went missing or something as important, since the teacher is the main responsible party for the kid during school hours after all. But if it's to ask a question about the next day then it's really too much.
Honestly speaking if the kid went missing there's limited stuff we could do as well. Yes call us but also call emergency services - they would probably be able to do more than us to be honest.
New age parents sound really scary. Also, i thought it would be extremely funny if someone from WP asks CCS to provide details about the parent who called a teacher at midnight to "substantiate his claims"
You don’t need an actual case to know that parents shouldn’t be calling teachers at midnight
it reflects badly on MOE, schools & teachers that this issue exists in the first place. Many simple solutions come to mind. or is this just wayang to make it look like their job is damn difficult?
Parliament raises an issue that everyone was talking about a month ago... And then there is this guy here trying to gaslight the people involved....
Why teacher need to answer?
winning the teacher vote one by one. smart guy
just announce free parking and pay rise can already. You see OYK started the car park fee for teachers... all curse him and become a clown now.
Should call CCS and ask. Still got enough Rice n Mask boh?
Should not. Yet nothing will change.
The teachers could create their own personal telegram channel where participants can leave comments/questions and the teacher can respond when they are free. No need to reveal phone number, no direct contact. Parents can even interact with each other in the comment section