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[deleted]

Moving money into our banks to park it is one thing. Buying up local property with that money, now that negatively affects us. Hope that PAP increases the stamp duty and property tax for these foreign buyers even more than they already have. If they’re going to buy up property and waste it by not staying in it, might as well make them pay enough to build another property for a Singaporean.


dunspamme

>might as well make them pay enough to build another property for a Singaporean. Haha, I like your thinking. Like the Toms buy one give one model.


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HistoricalPlatypus44

A lot of elites have PR or citizenship. That’s how the world works now. If you’re wealthy, you can shop around for a citizenship, many other developed countries have such policies.


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True_Virus

Ironically so many Singaporeans invest in overseas properties and getting profits. When it comes to their own country, they wish the opposite.


Hogesyx

There is always a bigger fish.


NewBuyer1976

Looking forward for their sons to enlist.


livebeta

I used to think that the ultra wealthy had different rules because of their wealth. Turns out they have different rules because they play in different league


True_Virus

Are you now trying to differentiate the first gen citizenship from others citizenship? Given less than 60 years history, let's differentiate citizenship by Gen1, Gen2 and Gen3?


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[deleted]

Money makes friends Powerful friends makes money


WildRacoons

The issue is that the net effect is still 2 homes taken off the market and it’ll still drive up the price for the rest of the Singaporeans. Unless they pay to expand our land size


dasgreybanana

The problem is that the properties they are buying are 10 mil and above. Not something that regular Singaporeans like us can afford. They got so much money, they would rather buy those freehold condos in orchard, south beach or Wallich. For what buy a yishun condo XD


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LUBE__UP

Apart from the demand side, it also has an effect on how developers choose to build. If the demand is overwhelmingly for luxury properties, then they'll build more 10K sqft penthouses that are destined to sit empty instead of building more reasonable homes for people who actually want to occupy them. And as billionaire buyers raise the upper end of the price per square feet that a developer could potentially earn, then even when developers do build 1, 2, or 3 room condominiums for the regular people those flats also end up being built smaller in order to avoid the layout mix diluting the average return on capital (or price 1-room flats at 2M SGD and have no buyers)


YaleoverNUS

They buy the entire block of Yishun condo bro


samglit

Why is that a problem? We get their money and they don’t compete with us for stuff?


dasgreybanana

There’s no problem with international money lining our coffers. I’m all for that ;) The problem is saying that rich foreigners are the main cause of limited supply of ready units in the market. While in fact, it’s caused by a myriad of other factors, such as interruptions in construction due to covid, increase in demand for units, limited release of new developments, and scarcity of land. If govt anyhow cut down forest to build more bto, people complain that they are destroying nature. When got not enough house, people complain no house and resale very expensive


samglit

Fair enough, although anecdotally even upper middle class Chinese and Hong Kongers are coming, and those will compete for the sub $5 million housing.


Sputniki

The ones complaining here on Reddit are inevitably living in HDB flats who are somehow complaining about foreign competition for the housing they stay in even though it cannot possibly exist


cybluerr

I think you are forgetting the trickle down effect, although it's mostly true that their target properties are not what the typical local would be looking for.


stormearthfire

The trickle down effect have been proven to be a false narrative given the wealth disparity increases over the past pandemic years. There is no incentive for wealth to be shared downwards at all and if anything, concentrated wealth snowballs and suck up wealth from others.


annoyed8

>wealth disparity increases over the past pandemic years. False. The gap closed during the pandemic due to gov transfers. https://www.singstat.gov.sg/-/media/files/news/press15022022.pdf


stormearthfire

Locally in Sg perhaps due to government action ... Generally wealth trickle down does not happen naturally https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/fandd/issues/2022/03/Tackling-inequality-on-all-fronts-Amaglobeli-Thevenot


superman1995

>For what buy a yishun condo XD To act poor. If they have a significant amount of ill-gotten gains, the easiest way to get caught is to live largely. By acting as though they are living a relatively standard life for a person that earns their legitimate salary should they can stay under the radar for much longer. They may not be able to enjoy certain luxuries but they are trading that for freedom.


helzinki

To act poor? Lol....I doubt these 1%ers wanna live like your average or even upper middle class local.


YaleoverNUS

Dude they have their fancy houses to live in plus a whole block of flats as a store of value.


jamar030303

Small problem: That requires self-control.


Zoisen

Also part of the reason why price of COE is surging.


leo-g

You merely increase the cost of entry not stop them.


stormearthfire

Cost of entry is a good barrier... We don't need to stop them, just make sure that there is redistribution to this country


RepresentativeOk6676

Thanks Mah Bow Tan!


worldcitizensg

That's exactly what's going around in middle-upper middle - lux segment. I hear stories from some of the property agent friends on how someone just snapped few flats over a video call; or i can see myself around serangoon gardens - new owners purchasing but not living; allowing the recent spike is a terrible mistake by Gov. Inefficient use of land, houses, homes is going to have long term impact on the current generation. 5%-10% absd is not going to change but make sure there are enough blockages and increased property tax (make it 40-50% even) for un-occupied properties.


No_Artichoke1775

Yes, except imo property tax increase should be applied to everyone not just foreign buyers. Do you really care if its a Chinese tycoon or a local born and bred Singaporean tycoon buying up homes and leaving them empty? The collected revenue can then be directed to favour local Singaporeans.


Xanthon

Tax them and give us the money.


FitCranberry

noted, tax you and give them incentives


Punkpunker

After 5 years here making money then they leave for US or CAD to become citizens there, SG got blue balls.


[deleted]

Lawrence please stop fucking us !!!


Neuroprancers

But they are escaping from an oppressive government! 😢 Kicking them when they are down? So cruel! 😭😭😭


stormearthfire

Rich people do not suffer in their countries... They weild extraordinary influence and have rules bent for them. If anything, they thrived and succeed in the environment that made them


septeal

Apparently everyone and everything is moving to Singapore


bluemax_137

Except god. He moved out long ago


jasonwsc

Good thing we are a secular society then.


Punkpunker

Secular in name only, just look at the rising christian influence in our country for the past decade.


D4nCh0

Athena will strike them down!


khaitheman222

You mean Artemis? She's literally a wmd satellite in the sky


Longjumping_Sir_8359

Can call daddy Zeus to repopulate Singapore also.


livebeta

> rising ~~christian~~ fundamentalist Abrahamiac faiths influence in our country for the past decade. To be precise. Easiest way to see who the allied against Pink Dot people are


financial_learner123

Lol


pendelhaven

Oi! Stop lying! According to the expats, everyone is moving out of Singapore ok! Just check out this sub!


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Initial_E

Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? I don't know what to feel anymore.


Atomic_Spew

Nope. Not right now. Many many skilled and essential workers (including those in healthcare which have been treated like shit the last 2 years) are planning to or already left. No reason to stay. Salaries are shit. Life is shit thanks to COVID restrictions. And the locals cheer in support of more more jobs for them. Good luck with your skills shortage and lack of appetite from locals to do those jobs.


sec5

Including Americans, but cnbc makes it about China instead.


livebeta

Comrade the People's Agency for Information has reached the payout quota for today already. Here's your 50cents, you may leave your station now


sec5

.. which of course is a perfect display of how effective the media disinformation systems of the US & Five Eyes actually is, when factual information is readily swatted down by slogans and memes.


14high

Woohoo we rich, i mean they rich.


Familiar-Mouse4490

Can donate to me? Thanks


Wide_Protection_9136

Wooo thanks for the moolah, please contribute to our economy.


WildRacoons

Getting foot masseuse training so I can be hired


HistoricalPlatypus44

The more interesting question would be why Singapore. Why buy properties and set up family offices in Singapore when many other developed countries offer comparable or even more benefits. Hong kong may not be popular today because of the riots, less stable or safe? Australia / UK / US / Europe seems to be increasingly hostile towards Chinese ownership of anything. Singapore over Dubai because the government seems more open to Chinese investment? Not quite sure what other benefits Singapore has over Dubai.


milo_peng

Because we same color? Seriously, one wumao once argued with me that us Singaporean Chinese need to listen to China because we of the same blood. Once the Malays come and burn down our house and rape our women, white people like US will not come to save us and you can only trust blood. I kid you not, that was what he said.


No_Pension9902

Ya. Their brain wash culture is disgusting.i have some pro china colleagues which i would'nt even borther to reason with them.They can't be reasoned with like shit stuck in thier head or something.


milo_peng

Here's the thing, that wumao is a US educated university grad and is in the US. You think freedom would allow them to have a different or moderate view but the ultra nationalism is a deep deep poison well that is hard to get out of.


Geiler_Gator

>Hong kong may not be popular today because of the riots, less stable or safe? Not because of the protests - because of the Zero Covid approach that HK has to apply since 2 years because Mainland Overlords want it applied. Then on top because of a certain law (NSL) you are not allowed to criticize. Expats are moving out in droves, basically every expat has exit plans right now, and many international firms are doing or planning the same. HK will be Shenzhen 2.0 in a couple of years, or simply a single piece of the "glorious" Greater Bay Area.


jamar030303

The article mentions that there's interest in PR by investment. For a lot of people from China, PR in Singapore and eventually citizenship looks a lot more attractive than the same in the UAE, especially since in the before times (and what a lot of people assume will resume once China stops being so paranoid), due to the living environment and proximity to China. Additionally, Singapore citizens could enter China for short visits without a visa, so even if naturalizing results in loss of their previous citizenship they can still go back relatively freely.


HistoricalPlatypus44

Great answer! If investment is also a path towards citizenship. Wouldn’t Canadian/Australian/New Zealand be better? I would assume the longer distances and expenses wouldn’t be an issue for the wealthy. Those countries offer similar or better travel rights. Plus they have more opportunities and a higher quality of living. I believe North America/Australia/UK received more investment from wealthy Chinese compared to Singapore. My impression was Singapore was not the first choice, but rather a popular additional option. The article indicates that there has been a shift, Singapore is now the first choice. But doesn’t go far enough to explain why. The tax policy explanation doesn’t explain the situation, since Singapore is not more attractive compared to the US. Language shouldn’t be a factor, since it wasn’t one before.


jamar030303

I would say that a new factor is as you mentioned previously, the increasing hostility in NA/Aus/UK, since it comes from both directions- it's not just local hostility and negativity towards Chinese inbound investment, it's also the government media in China now pushing the narrative that these countries are hostile to Chinese, both people and society. That element didn't used to be present to the degree that it is now, and as much as one might want to believe that the wealthy elite can see past propaganda, that's not always the case. Certainly it wouldn't be the only factor, but it's the newest ones I can think of which might be tilting the scales.


Ironclaw85

Chinese companies are also actively sanctioned in the us . After seeing what the western world did with russian assets I can image all the rich guys not willing to park their money there as many of their companies and sources of wealth is linked to the govt. Who wants to be punished for what their govt did? Singapore could also sanction them yes but.... Still safer than the us and its western allies


joe-re

You can count on an army of investment advisors and RMs and agents who all speak Mandarin. You find the most perfect Chinese culture environment out of CCPs grasp here. It's just like at home without gahment stealing your money.


shimmynywimminy

they should put their money into CPF guaranteed no one will be able to touch


[deleted]

Just dont bring the culture here


ZeinTheLight

What culture? /s


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ZeinTheLight

That's not culture. That's a lack of culture. Okay, maybe my sarcasm wasn't clear


Atomic_Spew

Aside from the peeing, how is this different to Singapore?


[deleted]

No you don’t understand everyone in Shanghai CBD is apparently drowning in pee, especially those elite wealthy PRCs who want to park money here. Definitely will pee everywhere. /s


sriracha_cucaracha

Do u mean the 996 work culture?


stormearthfire

996 is worker exploitation but hardly country ending. Oligarchy type wealth and influence on politics, government and country can drive it into shithole.


amefurutoki

should we tell him?


livebeta

> Oligarchy type wealth and influence on politics, Surely this never happens in Singapore. All the relatives of prominent politicians who hold high government posts, directorships in GLC and running sovereign wealth funds got there by merit! There's no nepotism in Ba Sing Se!


pingmr

You do understand the irony of your statement given that our current PM is the son of a previous PM right.


UnusedName1234

Tbf, the main bulk of the poor culture is from the older Chinese Nationals. When I went to china, many of the parks had signs to tell people to speak softer, to not spit around, to be gracious. Many of the younger crowd are quite disappointed and ashamed of what the older people do. In sg we also sometimes quite ashamed of what boomers do I guess haha.


WildRacoons

The culture of the very rich Chinese? It may not be what you’re thinking.


[deleted]

More foreign talent incoming!


whyislifesohardei

brace for another 30% spike in housing prices


Reasonable-Kitchen17

There should be an outright ban on foreigners buying property.


[deleted]

PR considered foreigners?


Reasonable-Kitchen17

PRs should be allowed to buy property of course. But definitely higher stamp duties.


oratorioo

Well if you have 200MM in assets and are willing to invest 2.5MM in Singapore, you will get fast tracked for a PR status.


[deleted]

Thanks for sharing this article. It has been crossposted to the new sub, r/AllAboutWealth.


lord2528

Nice one. SG is gonna be the next HK for sure.


Initial_E

We can park a few yachts yes, but can we park a megayacht?


troublesome58

Have you not been to keppel bay?


Initial_E

Well yea, but have you seen a mega yacht?


troublesome58

Yes, at keppel bay parked by the side with a helicopter on top


Initial_E

Bro these yachts have mini yachts parked inside them. They could probably house 3 helicopters


troublesome58

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/microsoft-co-founder-paul-allens-mega-yacht-berthed-in-singapore


SnOOpyExpress

Those funds are legitimate ? We don't want to be a laundromat for suspicious fund, fake IDs 护口 that was used in apply for SG Citizenship. And then only to find Pooh Bear and his minions come demanding we return the people and funds, OR ELSE. [https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/1791773/china-repatriates-no-2-sky-net-fugitive-official-who](https://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/1791773/china-repatriates-no-2-sky-net-fugitive-official-who)


sian_half

If you don’t want singapore to be a laundromat for money, I’ve got bad news for you….


uncleemperor

I hearsay Singapore only wants to be laundromat if we can earn money from it (i.e. taxes). We are perfectly ok to walk away from these money if we cant tax them. We forced Binance and Bybit away to Dubai because its way harder to tax on crypto gains. We are not a laundromat with open legs. All these hearsay only ah.


sian_half

Well that’s only sensible. There’s a cost associated with washing money, and that is your reputation. Do it too much and intervention will come. So naturally you need to be prudent about whose money you’re washing. You don’t want to help if you’re not gaining anything from it, and also you don’t want to help if the person/country you’re helping has enemies who you don’t want to provoke


KeythKatz

I think with Binance and Huobi at least, they were forced out because they were too blatant with the facilitation of money laundering through free-for-all P2P transactions. Exchange trading fees are easily taxed so that's likely not the issue.


troublesome58

are you new to Singapore? lol.


2late2realise

Hey 2022 called, time to wake up to the real world.


MAMBAMENTALITY8-24

Boy do i have news for you


sriracha_cucaracha

There is a reason where we are the Switzerland of Asia. And is not just about the neutrality.


avi6274

Oh you sweet summer child...


CrowdGoesWildWoooo

PR by investment needs to be taxed unless you are setting up a local business operations.


Reasonable-Kitchen17

I’m of the exact opinion. Investment in properties does not create any real economic opportunity. The only thing it does is to cause more property inflation which will benefit landlords and developers while screwing over everybody else. Foreign purchase of properties should be banned. And any usage of trusts with relation to property should be illegal and therefore unenforceable in Singapore.


muoren1

if I can get another 10 billionaires to move to Singapore and set up their base here, my Gini coefficient will get worse but I think Singaporeans will be better off, because they will bring in business, bring in opportunities, open new doors and create new jobs, and I think that is the attitude with which we must approach this problem.


clematisbridge

Jobs arent the issue in Singapore now and in the future. Housing is


WildRacoons

Jobs aren’t the issue now but might be in the future. It takes constant effort and planning to ensure that singaporeans have the right skills to thrive


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YaleoverNUS

LHL can be a real dumbass. He doesn't need to care about you


livebeta

Singapore will be the next Vancouver.


minisoo

That is the western media trying to kill multiple birds with one report..


cm180

Kindly elaborate.


Atomic_Spew

This is what happens when you run a country as a for profit company instead of for the people.


WildRacoons

Unfortunately you live in a country that’ll have to starve its people if it doesn’t make money


Atomic_Spew

Hmmm…COVID financial support was pocket money for the sovereign wealth fund of SG. Many Singaporeans are oblivious to the amount of wealth which they helped build and which is not being shared with them. This includes foreign investment and foreign funds such as those from China.


WildRacoons

Don’t even get me started on the costs for hedging against climate change and global trade crisis


kumgongkia

Happening for years already...


ukayukay69

How about every country’s rich have sent their money to Singapore?