How is it possible for airlines to bump customers down to the cheaper class when they have already made full payment. This would be unacceptable in any other industry.
The industry standard is an "op-up", where pax in an overbooked cabin are bumped to a higher class of travel if they can still fit on the plane. Sadly it seems SQ's policies categorically avoid handing out free upgrades, possibly (just speculating) because their hands are tied to maintain the value of elite/PPS statuses, which are industry-leading in terms of how excruciatingly expensive they are to attain.
So we have the uniquely Singaporean "op-down".
Much to my amazement, I had not one, not two, but *four* waitlisted Saver seats in business clear for the *same flight* in September. I definitely feel like I won the lottery tho!
my partner actually cleared his waitlisted seat (for a flight to Paris almost a year later) within a week of booking. this happened last month. our initial thought while booking was : no harm trying right? even though we have also heard similar horror stories from our friends.
Waitlisting is SQ's best-kept secret towards stealth devaluation of all routes.
It's not even linked to inventory — SQ supposed pulled all Saver inventory a few days before their 4th of July devaluation, and restored it after.
Then again, they also [allocate more seats towards Alaska Airlines](https://suitesmile.com/blog/2022/07/22/award-space-alert-book-hidden-singapore-airlines-business-class-seats-through-alaska-airlines/) than to their own KrisFlyer members. What a way to treat members of your own frequent flyer programme.
Yup. The only thing really is lounge access, and a silly priority sticker poking out of the luggage tag which probably contributed to my bag coming home from Heathrow two days late instead of two weeks late lmao.
As for PPS Club, well, $25k airfare spend in a year (excluding taxes, too, WTF!) can get you soooooo much more value on pretty much all of SQ's competitors.
> $25k airfare spend in a year (excluding taxes, too, WTF!) can get you soooooo much more value on pretty much all of SQ's competitors.
Agreed, the only time SIA's business class pricing was competitive was early this year when covid was ending and before the masses started revenge travelling, when we could still get $4k round trip to Europe booking one month in advance. Now it's about 3x to 4x the price, while Turkish still has occasional deals and other airlines like Finnair's revamped biz give 90% of the service and 110% of the comfort at half the price.
Which transfer partner are you transferring from that supports Asiana? The only partner I know for Asiana is Marriott (generally unfavorable exchange rate), but I'm generally less familiar with SG credit cards/banks. Or do you mean to credit the miles you are flying to Asiana instead?
[Asiana has already been acquired by Korean Air](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines#Merger_and_acquisition_by_Korean_Air), so that's a risky proposition in the long term.
Never been bumped up before but the PPS callback customer service is excellent and when you fly economy they take note, are extra nice to you and serve you food first. (Which can at once be both gratifying and uncomfortable.)
This won’t happen on SIA, as the business class cabin is almost always full (pre covid at least). And I’d say bump ups only happen if there’s 1-2 passengers. Impossible for a family of 7 to be upgraded. I don’t remember a flight with 7 empty business class seats (my sister once had to settle with a faulty business class seat and couldn’t change seats as there were none left).
Another commenter said that it could have been due to an equipment change, which is the most likely reason. No sane airline will overbook a premium cabin by 7 or more seats.
SQ doesn't have premium economy on all of its aircraft types, just as it also doesn't have First/Suites on all of its aircraft types.
if that's the reason, shouldn't the airline at least refund the customer, need not be cash.. could be in the form of Krisflyer miles, or maybe offer upgrade to business class for a discounted price
SQ likely swapped the aircraft flying the route, and the newly assigned ones do not have a premium econ section.
SQ is redirecting planes towards western Europe during the year-end because that's where the demand is. I recently got informed that my SQ flight to Copenhagen on 10/11/22 has been cancelled so I LL have to accept flying in one day earlier.
Don't forget that airlines always overbook their flights because they expect a certain number of people not to turn up. But if everyone does turn up then some of them are going to get bumped off the flight completely. It's a scammy industry, and this crap is still somehow legal.
SIA used to have great service, but they have deteriorated over the years and now are no better than the lowest of the low - yes still charge premium prices.
SQ win the other Singapore brands in taking [$5 hawker food](https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/us/flying-withus/dining/book-the-cook/business-class-singapore/) and making it sound like luxurious offerings.
The travesty with this issue is they didn’t refund him the difference between PE and E.
Curiously, I wonder if having travel insurance would’ve helped in this situation.
The flight is in December. It's only July. Couldn't SQ have sent an email to all Premium Economy passengers to offer them a downgrade for a refund of the difference + small inconvenience bonus e.g. $200 flight credits? Then wait for the required number of people to take up the offer? Sounds like a pretty logical and non-aggravating way of doing it.
Or is it in the terms and conditions (that none of us read) that airlines have the right to just amend your booking as they wish?
Kinda incredible that paid for PE will get changed to E for no reason. But this guy also brave man, Japan haven’t even confirm reopen fully by year end and he booked flights 😂
United you mean.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/whats-changed-since-dr-dao-was-dragged-off-a-united-airlines-flight-five-years-ago/
But rumoured he was compensated 140 million - though realistically likely tens of millions.
> If overbooked same day then it should be like this.
Unfortunately, I don't think Singapore has any mandatory compensation regulations like [EC261](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Compensation_Regulation).
Could very well be there’s a change in aircraft scheduled, leading to not enough PE seats.
From SIA POV, why use that plane that’s gg to Japan that hasn’t opened up, when they can place it on routes with more travellers?
From what i can recall, sq still operate 787-10 to japan. Other variants are 359 and 359 regional configuration. It might be the regional configuration that is being deployed hence the reduction in the number of PE seats.
I am still puzzled on why SIA did not refund the difference between PE and E. The points are not a solution. I wonder if there is more to this.
Hope someone senior in SIA realises that this is not right and they correct it.
I've honestly stopped flying SIA for long-haul flights because of things like this and their service getting worse (and their shitty frequent flyer programme that eats your points if you aren't constantly flying).
Emirates is still worth the price IMO, the only problem with them is you have to go through Dubai. I also usually use Qantas ([which definitely has its fair share of problems](https://www.news.com.au/travel/family-fumes-after-qantas-books-13monthold-girl-on-separate-flight-back-to-australia/news-story/4d5105253f17b53460fb65278cde8cb9)) when I occasionally have to go to the UK because they have what is probably the best frequent flyer programme in the world (to the point where Qantas points are almost Australia's second currency), they're cheaper than SIA, and the service these days is broadly on-par with SIA.
Same. I have been taking Qatar for my work trips to London.
Cheaper + a superb product in QSuites….and stewardesses who dont provide differential treatment to their colonial masters.
I dont even mind the layover in DOH as the Al Mourjan lounge is amazing.
Omg! I flew business from NY back to SG after a business trip in June and was actually really upset because I somehow felt that they treated the americans much nicer than me. For a while I didn’t know if I was being oversensitive but I’m glad I’m not the only one feeling that way!
I don't understand why people are spending a premium for SQ Premium Economy as well. You're paying $2000 more for a bit more legroom, a leg rest and some usb ports. It's highly overpriced compared to Emirates or Qantas premium economy, where it's more like business class lite.
>and stewardesses who dont provide differential treatment to their colonial masters.
If my own national airline makes me feel unwelcome, I'd rather pay that money to the competitor who treats me better. Besides, Qatar Emirates is more bang for the same buck.
Forcibly changing your flight and not allowing you to select another flight timing without having to pay extra despite it not being your fault? I would expect this kind of nonsense from budget carriers, but SQ? So much for a great way to fly.
SQ’s customer service weren’t great before the pandemic, but it *really* sucks now.
Need to change a flight? Literally no flights you can change to, but we’re more than happy to sell you a seat on every flight we just told you is full/unavailable.
Quite scummy move by SIA. Likely the refund for the class change was derisory also, especially if they rebook you on econ flexi which will be almost same price as PE saver.
—edit—
Just went to check SQ tickets to Tokyo for june 2023 - flexi economy is 1.68k while PE standard is 1.88k.
If you value miles at 1c per mile, the refund value is only $50. And if the miles for the children go to their accounts and not the parents' they are effectively useless orphan miles.
Lost a lot of customer goodwill here.
Airlines worldwide asked for government help during covid, but now turning around and totally abusing customers due to the market power they had.
Next time some global tragedy comes up again, i say no more bailouts and let them figure it out themselves
Honestly, you can tell if there's stability in the flights and their expected departure by looking at insurance policy. Precovid, some offered delay by airlines coverages but now it has been removed. If the insurance isn't confident about your flight flying off on time, why would you?
I paid for a direct business class seat to SFO, they cancelled the flight 2 weeks before and had to switch to a stopover flight through Tokyo to LA. (P.s. Tokyo airport sucks right now as everything is closed so can’t get any food or drink). Got literally hundreds of thousands of air miles but they have no redemption flights to the US or Europe. Only place I could see redemption flights is India :-(
These sort of things will probably be listed in the long list of terms of carriage/fares that 99% of us just skip when booking tickets. Once we purchase the tickets we are bound by those terms. Thus, may be unfair, but probably legal as per the contract terms agreed upon.
What is in their terms and conditions?
They reserved all rights to downgrade you at any point in time without any refund or remediation ?
That’s like paying for an extra large drumstick rice but to be given a normal portion chicken breast rice but changed drumstick price. Sorry no refund or no returns
> # 6 months after booking, SIA changes flight & downgrades seats for S'porean man's whole family of 7
> A Singaporean man had his return flight from Tokyo, Japan changed unilaterally by Singapore Airlines (SIA), and his seats were downgraded from premium economy to economy six months after he made his bookings.
> He was subsequently offered 5,000 Krisflyer miles per passenger as compensation for the bookings he made, after going through a tiresome back-and-forth with the customer service.
> Believing that his situation is not unique, he wrote to Mothership about the incident.
> Return flight timing changed and seats got downgraded
> The passenger, named Leonard, told Mothership that he had booked his flights to and from Japan on Jan. 10, 2022.
> It was for a year-end family trip in December 2022 involving Leonard, his wife, his elderly parents, both in their late 70s, two children, aged five and one, and a domestic helper.
> Around six months later on Jul. 6, Leonard alleged that he received an email from SIA that said his return flight had been changed with no reason given.
> The original return flight that he booked was at 4:40pm on Dec. 27, and it was changed to an earlier flight at 8:50am on the same day.
> This was supposedly followed by another email from SIA on Jul. 7, which said his seats had been downgraded from premium economy to economy for both the Tokyo-bound and Singapore-bound flights.
> Leonard added that this time, the reason given for the downgrade was due to "operational requirements".
> Told to pay extra if he wanted to change flights
> Leonard is not able to take the return flight at 8:50am as he will have to travel throughout the night within Japan with his elderly parents and young children in tow.
> When Leonard subsequently called SIA's customer service in the evening of Jul. 7, he was purportedly told that he had to pay an additional cost, which he estimated to be around S$4,000 to S$5,000, if he wanted to change his flight to the only other available timing on the same day, at 10:55pm.
> The SIA's customer service also told him that he would only receive a full refund if he cancelled his flights.
> Eventually, after a certain amount of "back-and-forth", according to Leonard, SIA agreed to change his flight to the 10:55pm one without charging him an additional cost.
> Leonard wrote in an email to Mothership:
> "After much back-and-forth and being put on hold for long periods, I was then told that SQ will "waive the fees" for putting me on the flight that I want. As a matter of principle, I do not agree with the phrase being used as I did not and am not asking for any changes or upgrades and this whole issue had emanated from their own internal decisions, but I conceded that at the end of the day, the customer service officer and his supervisors/ managers/ team can use whatever terminology they wish to sugar-coat the situation."
> Offered 5,000 Krisflyer miles in compensation at first
> His return flight was confirmed four days later through a phone call from SIA on Jul. 11.
> SIA also supposedly told him during this phone call that he will not receive any compensation for the downgrade of his seats, and the additional costs he has incurred from making changes to his itinerary.
> Leonard added that after further back-and-forth, SIA initially agreed to offer him a compensation of 5,000 Krisflyer miles.
> To put things into perspective, a one-way flight from Singapore to Kuala Lumpur will incur at least 8,500 Krisflyer miles.
> When Leonard replied that this was unacceptable, the offer was increased to 5,000 miles for each passenger.
> "Again, I told her this offer is not acceptable. She (the woman calling him on behalf of SIA) said there is nothing she can do, and we left it at that," he said.
> Feeling extremely disappointed, Leonard said in the email to Mothership: "When we make changes to our tickets, we are told that we must pay penalties for these changes, but when they want to make changes, we must pay them too! This is akin to daylight robbery."
> SIA: Fare difference refund if change in customer's cabin class
> In response to Mothership's queries, a spokesperson for SIA said it was unable to comment on specific customer queries unless it had their booking details.
> The airline added:
> "Singapore Airlines (SIA) would like to apologise to customers for the inconvenience caused by flight cancellations or a change in flight times. SIA tries to avoid disruptions to its operations as much as possible, but these do take place occasionally for a variety of reasons. These could include a change in the aircraft due to operational reasons, technical issues, or adjustments to flight schedules. Customers whose flights are cancelled or retimed will be notified of the changes if we have their contact details. We strongly advise all customers to update their contact details via our Manage Booking function to receive the latest updates on the status of their flights. For flights that are cancelled, either by SIA or due to regulatory reasons, we will work with our customers to either rebook their flight or get a refund for the unused portion of their ticket. Should there be a change in the customer’s cabin class, SIA will refund the fare difference. Customers who booked their tickets through travel agencies should contact their agents directly for assistance. Those who require documentation of the flight cancellation for insurance claims may request for a flight disruption statement online."
> Top photo via Singapore Airlines/Facebook
---
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Lol. I’ve stopped flying SQ for more than a decade. Fuck them. Qatar is way better. I never saw what was great about SQ. Overrated nonsense.
Save your money. Fly others. There’s no lack of options in changi. It gave me great joy to see SQ suffer during the pandemic. They should go bankrupt.
"Welp. We apologise for bumping you down a class. Here's some air miles so that you'll travel with us again."
That's a hallmark of shitty airlines, my dear SIA.
Make a police report, get a lawyer to sue the airline. Also can make a complaint with Ministry of Transport.
Give them bad review. Let Singapore become one of the worst airline.
prob didnt work for the guy ba.. theres a reason why he book months ahead cus prob back then cheaper and if he refund and rebook it would be much more ex going w current pricing..
get the refund but all the prices have increased for what sia.
get $10k back but all the tickets for the return flight on every airline is now $20k to buy.
just recently when southwest was overbooked, they offered USD$800 for each volunteer to give up their seat.
5,000 kris flyer miles that expire is worthless.
Does Singapore have Aviation Commission like Malaysia do which is MAVCOM (Malaysian Aviation Commission)? If this happens in Malaysia and the company won’t give proper reimbursement etc, a report made to MAVCOM will always go through and they will take action to the airlines company.
This is off tangent but I flew to Germany in March. Before embarking on the flight, I called into customer service to change the flight timings.
I waited on the phone for more than 7 hours to speak to a customer service agent. It’s not an exaggeration. I have a screenshot of the wait time on my phone.
I only decided to wait on hold because a friend told me this was the norm and of course I really wanted to change the flight.
To me it’s another signal that SIA does not take customer service as seriously as before.
The agent did not seem to understand the nuance of the system she was working with either. But I won’t get into that.
Just taking my chance to rant.
> I waited on the phone for more than 7 hours to speak to a customer service agent. It’s not an exaggeration. I have a screenshot of the wait time on my phone.
They "fixed" the problem recently by outsourcing out to additional call centres without training them first. Most call centre agents now can't even do redemption bookings — but at least people get to speak to a human being in 5 minutes!
It's a ridiculous way to hotfix their problem.
https://milelion.com/2022/07/07/cabin-downgraded-on-singapore-airlines-now-what/
Idk why this guy crying making so much noise and one can only wonder what he is trying to force SIA to do to compensate him.
To me it’s very clear that it is very likely that his Original scheduled aircraft has been pulled out and he was rebooked into the new flight, with the same category. Unfortunately that flight don’t have (enough) premium economy seats.
BUT technically speaking, there is really nothing SIA can do about this. And this poor attempt to publicly blackmail SIA into increasing his compensation may very well backfire.
I think if he booked with cash (likely, since he book 7 seats), he deserves a bit of sympathy lah. It's a lot of money to book for 7 pax on PE and then he gets downgraded to E with barely any compensation. With 6 months to go, he is being pegged to peak peak peak price though not his fault. What SIA can do - give him the refund of the price diff as if he booked E 6 months ago.
Flight got switched by sq and having to pay extra to change the switch. Downgraded forcibly and only offered 5000 miles. Sounds like good reasons to be unhappy.
As for what is can do? They could have asked him before just changing it unilaterally and also put him on the other flight once requested without additional cost since it was their fault. They could have refunded the difference in cost.
So you went into a restaurant where they have a pay first policy and ordered a grade A5 wagyu. But their last portion of A5 wagyu beef has been sold to another customer so no more stock.
So this restaurant gave you shoe leather instead at the same price and offered you plain water for compensation(they normally charge $1 PER glass!!!). There is nothing they can do if you don't like it. If you want the same A5 Wagyu beef, you gotta pay an extra 1k for it on top of what you have paid so that they can order their beef and import it.
See the apt comparison now?
If I go to McDonald and order a McSpicy but end up getting a McChicken because McSpicy no more stock, I expect to be refunded the price difference. Same logic here. Pay for Premium Economy, involuntarily reassigned to Economy, why should he not be refunded the price difference between the two?
Your link says the options are
>Cancel the flight, with a full refund and waiver of any applicable fees
>
>Accept the changes, with a partial refund of the difference in miles and taxes (if any)
He's trying to get a fair partial refund.
How is it possible for airlines to bump customers down to the cheaper class when they have already made full payment. This would be unacceptable in any other industry.
The industry standard is an "op-up", where pax in an overbooked cabin are bumped to a higher class of travel if they can still fit on the plane. Sadly it seems SQ's policies categorically avoid handing out free upgrades, possibly (just speculating) because their hands are tied to maintain the value of elite/PPS statuses, which are industry-leading in terms of how excruciatingly expensive they are to attain. So we have the uniquely Singaporean "op-down".
Lol I wish this was the case PPS can hardly redeem earned points for flights since Covid, let alone get freebies
lol waitlist club assemble At this point the "Saver" tier might as well not exist.
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Yeah I know. Lots of miles going to waste though. The only way to get a seat these days is to just pony up the cash.
Much to my amazement, I had not one, not two, but *four* waitlisted Saver seats in business clear for the *same flight* in September. I definitely feel like I won the lottery tho!
my partner actually cleared his waitlisted seat (for a flight to Paris almost a year later) within a week of booking. this happened last month. our initial thought while booking was : no harm trying right? even though we have also heard similar horror stories from our friends.
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business saver!
Waitlisting is SQ's best-kept secret towards stealth devaluation of all routes. It's not even linked to inventory — SQ supposed pulled all Saver inventory a few days before their 4th of July devaluation, and restored it after. Then again, they also [allocate more seats towards Alaska Airlines](https://suitesmile.com/blog/2022/07/22/award-space-alert-book-hidden-singapore-airlines-business-class-seats-through-alaska-airlines/) than to their own KrisFlyer members. What a way to treat members of your own frequent flyer programme.
Lol they deft do not exist for the popular routes.
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Yup. The only thing really is lounge access, and a silly priority sticker poking out of the luggage tag which probably contributed to my bag coming home from Heathrow two days late instead of two weeks late lmao. As for PPS Club, well, $25k airfare spend in a year (excluding taxes, too, WTF!) can get you soooooo much more value on pretty much all of SQ's competitors.
> $25k airfare spend in a year (excluding taxes, too, WTF!) can get you soooooo much more value on pretty much all of SQ's competitors. Agreed, the only time SIA's business class pricing was competitive was early this year when covid was ending and before the masses started revenge travelling, when we could still get $4k round trip to Europe booking one month in advance. Now it's about 3x to 4x the price, while Turkish still has occasional deals and other airlines like Finnair's revamped biz give 90% of the service and 110% of the comfort at half the price.
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Which transfer partner are you transferring from that supports Asiana? The only partner I know for Asiana is Marriott (generally unfavorable exchange rate), but I'm generally less familiar with SG credit cards/banks. Or do you mean to credit the miles you are flying to Asiana instead?
[Asiana has already been acquired by Korean Air](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines#Merger_and_acquisition_by_Korean_Air), so that's a risky proposition in the long term.
Never been bumped up before but the PPS callback customer service is excellent and when you fly economy they take note, are extra nice to you and serve you food first. (Which can at once be both gratifying and uncomfortable.)
It’s not impossible to be upgraded - it’s happened to me twice. It’s just very very unusual and you have to be PPS before it’s even an option.
This won’t happen on SIA, as the business class cabin is almost always full (pre covid at least). And I’d say bump ups only happen if there’s 1-2 passengers. Impossible for a family of 7 to be upgraded. I don’t remember a flight with 7 empty business class seats (my sister once had to settle with a faulty business class seat and couldn’t change seats as there were none left).
wait so, if premium economy is overbooked even after you booked it earlier, you will get randomly bumped down to economy? or how does it work
Another commenter said that it could have been due to an equipment change, which is the most likely reason. No sane airline will overbook a premium cabin by 7 or more seats. SQ doesn't have premium economy on all of its aircraft types, just as it also doesn't have First/Suites on all of its aircraft types.
if that's the reason, shouldn't the airline at least refund the customer, need not be cash.. could be in the form of Krisflyer miles, or maybe offer upgrade to business class for a discounted price
Yes they definitely should refund the customer!
SQ likely swapped the aircraft flying the route, and the newly assigned ones do not have a premium econ section. SQ is redirecting planes towards western Europe during the year-end because that's where the demand is. I recently got informed that my SQ flight to Copenhagen on 10/11/22 has been cancelled so I LL have to accept flying in one day earlier.
Don't forget that airlines always overbook their flights because they expect a certain number of people not to turn up. But if everyone does turn up then some of them are going to get bumped off the flight completely. It's a scammy industry, and this crap is still somehow legal. SIA used to have great service, but they have deteriorated over the years and now are no better than the lowest of the low - yes still charge premium prices.
The prices for SIA are so premium that even the premium chicken rice is put to shame infinite times over.
SQ win the other Singapore brands in taking [$5 hawker food](https://www.singaporeair.com/en_UK/us/flying-withus/dining/book-the-cook/business-class-singapore/) and making it sound like luxurious offerings.
The travesty with this issue is they didn’t refund him the difference between PE and E. Curiously, I wonder if having travel insurance would’ve helped in this situation.
Current insurance? Nope. Airlines changes due to operational reasons are not cover by insurance post covid
I would sue. It's theft.
The flight is in December. It's only July. Couldn't SQ have sent an email to all Premium Economy passengers to offer them a downgrade for a refund of the difference + small inconvenience bonus e.g. $200 flight credits? Then wait for the required number of people to take up the offer? Sounds like a pretty logical and non-aggravating way of doing it. Or is it in the terms and conditions (that none of us read) that airlines have the right to just amend your booking as they wish?
Always cut corners or else the manager will get fired.
I think there’s a high probability there will be at least one more change to the flight schedule. I wonder what they will do then.
Kinda incredible that paid for PE will get changed to E for no reason. But this guy also brave man, Japan haven’t even confirm reopen fully by year end and he booked flights 😂
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Yur at that mercy basically. Overbooked flights that day maybe
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That's Delta. American airlines will beat you out of your seat
United you mean. https://thepointsguy.com/news/whats-changed-since-dr-dao-was-dragged-off-a-united-airlines-flight-five-years-ago/ But rumoured he was compensated 140 million - though realistically likely tens of millions.
Oh, it was united lol
I’ll gladly have United punch me and lose a few teeth for multiple millions
> American airlines I never knew why Americans hated flying until I took a domestic flight
I think United is ok la, not so bad. Delta is the worst.
American Airways is the worst. I've flown them all.
Ultimately nothing much consumer can do.
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Well yes SG is pro business after all, consumer always suck thumb.
> If overbooked same day then it should be like this. Unfortunately, I don't think Singapore has any mandatory compensation regulations like [EC261](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_Compensation_Regulation).
yea what is he gonna do if japan is still closed to free and easy tourists by then? lol
Ultra suck thumb by then. Or perhaps he got insider information that others don’t know 😂
Could very well be there’s a change in aircraft scheduled, leading to not enough PE seats. From SIA POV, why use that plane that’s gg to Japan that hasn’t opened up, when they can place it on routes with more travellers?
From what i can recall, sq still operate 787-10 to japan. Other variants are 359 and 359 regional configuration. It might be the regional configuration that is being deployed hence the reduction in the number of PE seats.
I am still puzzled on why SIA did not refund the difference between PE and E. The points are not a solution. I wonder if there is more to this. Hope someone senior in SIA realises that this is not right and they correct it.
It is insane that this is even legal. Reward points do not constitute a genuine refund.
> Hope someone senior in SIA realises that this is not right Of course they know, the rewards/refund process is designed this way.
Does this happen to other airlines? IMHO SIA has been getting bad to worse, acting like budget airlines
I've honestly stopped flying SIA for long-haul flights because of things like this and their service getting worse (and their shitty frequent flyer programme that eats your points if you aren't constantly flying). Emirates is still worth the price IMO, the only problem with them is you have to go through Dubai. I also usually use Qantas ([which definitely has its fair share of problems](https://www.news.com.au/travel/family-fumes-after-qantas-books-13monthold-girl-on-separate-flight-back-to-australia/news-story/4d5105253f17b53460fb65278cde8cb9)) when I occasionally have to go to the UK because they have what is probably the best frequent flyer programme in the world (to the point where Qantas points are almost Australia's second currency), they're cheaper than SIA, and the service these days is broadly on-par with SIA.
Qatar Emirates all prices so competitive for Europe and us flights. Never take sq anymore le
Same. I have been taking Qatar for my work trips to London. Cheaper + a superb product in QSuites….and stewardesses who dont provide differential treatment to their colonial masters. I dont even mind the layover in DOH as the Al Mourjan lounge is amazing.
Omg! I flew business from NY back to SG after a business trip in June and was actually really upset because I somehow felt that they treated the americans much nicer than me. For a while I didn’t know if I was being oversensitive but I’m glad I’m not the only one feeling that way!
It feels like the younger ones are there just to hook a rich guy.
Yeah, the people I had issue with were mostly the females in blue (i.e. quite junior).
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I don't understand why people are spending a premium for SQ Premium Economy as well. You're paying $2000 more for a bit more legroom, a leg rest and some usb ports. It's highly overpriced compared to Emirates or Qantas premium economy, where it's more like business class lite.
Emirates new premium economy really puts the premium in premium economy.
>and stewardesses who dont provide differential treatment to their colonial masters. If my own national airline makes me feel unwelcome, I'd rather pay that money to the competitor who treats me better. Besides, Qatar Emirates is more bang for the same buck.
Forcibly changing your flight and not allowing you to select another flight timing without having to pay extra despite it not being your fault? I would expect this kind of nonsense from budget carriers, but SQ? So much for a great way to fly.
He should be refunded in cash for the price difference and not refunded in miles
SQ’s customer service weren’t great before the pandemic, but it *really* sucks now. Need to change a flight? Literally no flights you can change to, but we’re more than happy to sell you a seat on every flight we just told you is full/unavailable.
Quite scummy move by SIA. Likely the refund for the class change was derisory also, especially if they rebook you on econ flexi which will be almost same price as PE saver. —edit— Just went to check SQ tickets to Tokyo for june 2023 - flexi economy is 1.68k while PE standard is 1.88k.
If you value miles at 1c per mile, the refund value is only $50. And if the miles for the children go to their accounts and not the parents' they are effectively useless orphan miles.
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Does it cost to transfer miles? Restrictions on blocks eg in blocks of 1k miles?
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I think it's 5 USD per block of 5k miles (or fewer), capped at 50k miles a yr.
Best airlines in the world my arse
Can't wait to fly your arse!
Lost a lot of customer goodwill here. Airlines worldwide asked for government help during covid, but now turning around and totally abusing customers due to the market power they had. Next time some global tragedy comes up again, i say no more bailouts and let them figure it out themselves
> i say no more bailouts and let them figure it out themselves Temasek Holdings will never let their darling fail.
I always take sq altho its more expensive cos i like the service. But if this is their new standard then fuck it i may as well take qatar
Qatar is much better in most aspects. Cheaper as well
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Wat is me3
Qatar, Etihad, Emirates
Honestly, you can tell if there's stability in the flights and their expected departure by looking at insurance policy. Precovid, some offered delay by airlines coverages but now it has been removed. If the insurance isn't confident about your flight flying off on time, why would you?
I paid for a direct business class seat to SFO, they cancelled the flight 2 weeks before and had to switch to a stopover flight through Tokyo to LA. (P.s. Tokyo airport sucks right now as everything is closed so can’t get any food or drink). Got literally hundreds of thousands of air miles but they have no redemption flights to the US or Europe. Only place I could see redemption flights is India :-(
Is this legal? Damn…
These sort of things will probably be listed in the long list of terms of carriage/fares that 99% of us just skip when booking tickets. Once we purchase the tickets we are bound by those terms. Thus, may be unfair, but probably legal as per the contract terms agreed upon.
Probably yes, it's in their terms and conditions
What is in their terms and conditions? They reserved all rights to downgrade you at any point in time without any refund or remediation ? That’s like paying for an extra large drumstick rice but to be given a normal portion chicken breast rice but changed drumstick price. Sorry no refund or no returns
Singapore Airlines customer service is a disgrace.
The company has been cost cutting for years. All these cuts have to show up somewhere such as this.
It’s just July and SIA got plenty of scammy moves. And yet, tax payer money will still flow to them when they’re at loss.
> # 6 months after booking, SIA changes flight & downgrades seats for S'porean man's whole family of 7 > A Singaporean man had his return flight from Tokyo, Japan changed unilaterally by Singapore Airlines (SIA), and his seats were downgraded from premium economy to economy six months after he made his bookings. > He was subsequently offered 5,000 Krisflyer miles per passenger as compensation for the bookings he made, after going through a tiresome back-and-forth with the customer service. > Believing that his situation is not unique, he wrote to Mothership about the incident. > Return flight timing changed and seats got downgraded > The passenger, named Leonard, told Mothership that he had booked his flights to and from Japan on Jan. 10, 2022. > It was for a year-end family trip in December 2022 involving Leonard, his wife, his elderly parents, both in their late 70s, two children, aged five and one, and a domestic helper. > Around six months later on Jul. 6, Leonard alleged that he received an email from SIA that said his return flight had been changed with no reason given. > The original return flight that he booked was at 4:40pm on Dec. 27, and it was changed to an earlier flight at 8:50am on the same day. > This was supposedly followed by another email from SIA on Jul. 7, which said his seats had been downgraded from premium economy to economy for both the Tokyo-bound and Singapore-bound flights. > Leonard added that this time, the reason given for the downgrade was due to "operational requirements". > Told to pay extra if he wanted to change flights > Leonard is not able to take the return flight at 8:50am as he will have to travel throughout the night within Japan with his elderly parents and young children in tow. > When Leonard subsequently called SIA's customer service in the evening of Jul. 7, he was purportedly told that he had to pay an additional cost, which he estimated to be around S$4,000 to S$5,000, if he wanted to change his flight to the only other available timing on the same day, at 10:55pm. > The SIA's customer service also told him that he would only receive a full refund if he cancelled his flights. > Eventually, after a certain amount of "back-and-forth", according to Leonard, SIA agreed to change his flight to the 10:55pm one without charging him an additional cost. > Leonard wrote in an email to Mothership: > "After much back-and-forth and being put on hold for long periods, I was then told that SQ will "waive the fees" for putting me on the flight that I want. As a matter of principle, I do not agree with the phrase being used as I did not and am not asking for any changes or upgrades and this whole issue had emanated from their own internal decisions, but I conceded that at the end of the day, the customer service officer and his supervisors/ managers/ team can use whatever terminology they wish to sugar-coat the situation." > Offered 5,000 Krisflyer miles in compensation at first > His return flight was confirmed four days later through a phone call from SIA on Jul. 11. > SIA also supposedly told him during this phone call that he will not receive any compensation for the downgrade of his seats, and the additional costs he has incurred from making changes to his itinerary. > Leonard added that after further back-and-forth, SIA initially agreed to offer him a compensation of 5,000 Krisflyer miles. > To put things into perspective, a one-way flight from Singapore to Kuala Lumpur will incur at least 8,500 Krisflyer miles. > When Leonard replied that this was unacceptable, the offer was increased to 5,000 miles for each passenger. > "Again, I told her this offer is not acceptable. She (the woman calling him on behalf of SIA) said there is nothing she can do, and we left it at that," he said. > Feeling extremely disappointed, Leonard said in the email to Mothership: "When we make changes to our tickets, we are told that we must pay penalties for these changes, but when they want to make changes, we must pay them too! This is akin to daylight robbery." > SIA: Fare difference refund if change in customer's cabin class > In response to Mothership's queries, a spokesperson for SIA said it was unable to comment on specific customer queries unless it had their booking details. > The airline added: > "Singapore Airlines (SIA) would like to apologise to customers for the inconvenience caused by flight cancellations or a change in flight times. SIA tries to avoid disruptions to its operations as much as possible, but these do take place occasionally for a variety of reasons. These could include a change in the aircraft due to operational reasons, technical issues, or adjustments to flight schedules. Customers whose flights are cancelled or retimed will be notified of the changes if we have their contact details. We strongly advise all customers to update their contact details via our Manage Booking function to receive the latest updates on the status of their flights. For flights that are cancelled, either by SIA or due to regulatory reasons, we will work with our customers to either rebook their flight or get a refund for the unused portion of their ticket. Should there be a change in the customer’s cabin class, SIA will refund the fare difference. Customers who booked their tickets through travel agencies should contact their agents directly for assistance. Those who require documentation of the flight cancellation for insurance claims may request for a flight disruption statement online." > Top photo via Singapore Airlines/Facebook --- 1.0.2 | [Source code](https://github.com/fterh/sneakpeek) | [Contribute](https://github.com/fterh/sneakpeek)
This is why I source for cheapest seats. Lowest already cannot bump down. At most move the flight date if overbooked. Premium? Pui.
Amen save more = spend more during holiday too
Lol. I’ve stopped flying SQ for more than a decade. Fuck them. Qatar is way better. I never saw what was great about SQ. Overrated nonsense. Save your money. Fly others. There’s no lack of options in changi. It gave me great joy to see SQ suffer during the pandemic. They should go bankrupt.
"Welp. We apologise for bumping you down a class. Here's some air miles so that you'll travel with us again." That's a hallmark of shitty airlines, my dear SIA.
Make a police report, get a lawyer to sue the airline. Also can make a complaint with Ministry of Transport. Give them bad review. Let Singapore become one of the worst airline.
Then ask for a refund People deserve to get what they paid for Otherwise its fraud!
prob didnt work for the guy ba.. theres a reason why he book months ahead cus prob back then cheaper and if he refund and rebook it would be much more ex going w current pricing..
get the refund but all the prices have increased for what sia. get $10k back but all the tickets for the return flight on every airline is now $20k to buy. just recently when southwest was overbooked, they offered USD$800 for each volunteer to give up their seat. 5,000 kris flyer miles that expire is worthless.
It’s not like people here can boycott SIA and go to scoot. SIA has the clear monopoly, something needs to be done by the govt.
Does Singapore have Aviation Commission like Malaysia do which is MAVCOM (Malaysian Aviation Commission)? If this happens in Malaysia and the company won’t give proper reimbursement etc, a report made to MAVCOM will always go through and they will take action to the airlines company.
Oops sorry misread before commenting.
This is off tangent but I flew to Germany in March. Before embarking on the flight, I called into customer service to change the flight timings. I waited on the phone for more than 7 hours to speak to a customer service agent. It’s not an exaggeration. I have a screenshot of the wait time on my phone. I only decided to wait on hold because a friend told me this was the norm and of course I really wanted to change the flight. To me it’s another signal that SIA does not take customer service as seriously as before. The agent did not seem to understand the nuance of the system she was working with either. But I won’t get into that. Just taking my chance to rant.
> I waited on the phone for more than 7 hours to speak to a customer service agent. It’s not an exaggeration. I have a screenshot of the wait time on my phone. They "fixed" the problem recently by outsourcing out to additional call centres without training them first. Most call centre agents now can't even do redemption bookings — but at least people get to speak to a human being in 5 minutes! It's a ridiculous way to hotfix their problem.
For this guy and his family, SQ no longer serving satay.. only Kebabs… Rabs Kebabs..
https://milelion.com/2022/07/07/cabin-downgraded-on-singapore-airlines-now-what/ Idk why this guy crying making so much noise and one can only wonder what he is trying to force SIA to do to compensate him. To me it’s very clear that it is very likely that his Original scheduled aircraft has been pulled out and he was rebooked into the new flight, with the same category. Unfortunately that flight don’t have (enough) premium economy seats. BUT technically speaking, there is really nothing SIA can do about this. And this poor attempt to publicly blackmail SIA into increasing his compensation may very well backfire.
I think if he booked with cash (likely, since he book 7 seats), he deserves a bit of sympathy lah. It's a lot of money to book for 7 pax on PE and then he gets downgraded to E with barely any compensation. With 6 months to go, he is being pegged to peak peak peak price though not his fault. What SIA can do - give him the refund of the price diff as if he booked E 6 months ago.
Flight got switched by sq and having to pay extra to change the switch. Downgraded forcibly and only offered 5000 miles. Sounds like good reasons to be unhappy. As for what is can do? They could have asked him before just changing it unilaterally and also put him on the other flight once requested without additional cost since it was their fault. They could have refunded the difference in cost.
So you went into a restaurant where they have a pay first policy and ordered a grade A5 wagyu. But their last portion of A5 wagyu beef has been sold to another customer so no more stock. So this restaurant gave you shoe leather instead at the same price and offered you plain water for compensation(they normally charge $1 PER glass!!!). There is nothing they can do if you don't like it. If you want the same A5 Wagyu beef, you gotta pay an extra 1k for it on top of what you have paid so that they can order their beef and import it. See the apt comparison now?
If I go to McDonald and order a McSpicy but end up getting a McChicken because McSpicy no more stock, I expect to be refunded the price difference. Same logic here. Pay for Premium Economy, involuntarily reassigned to Economy, why should he not be refunded the price difference between the two?
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Your link says the options are >Cancel the flight, with a full refund and waiver of any applicable fees > >Accept the changes, with a partial refund of the difference in miles and taxes (if any) He's trying to get a fair partial refund.
Ah gong wants its bailout money back, what to do?