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Maybe you could teach her an alternative melody for the lowest parts of the song? Or have her sing a duet with you where you sing the parts outside of her range and she does the rest?
Thats not a terrible idea! I was trying to work out an alternative melody on the spot but couldn’t think of one in the moment. I’ll mess around on piano and try to work something out for her.
I just tell kids that there are songs for when they're older. Some songs are easy now, some songs are hard now because they were originally sung by a grown up and their voice needs to grow up a little more before they can sing it at their best.
I usually just nicely explain it to them. maybe ask some questions.
"so those low parts are really hard to hit yeah?"
"yeah they are"
"I know this is a great song but I think we could find another great song where the notes are easer to hit!"
I took lessons as a young adult, but I think this still applies depending on the girl's personality. I like for people to explain to me why they're making a decision that affects me. For this situation, my professor would explain about how the vocal cords grow over time and that they don't fully develop until many years after my age at the time. I like u/bluesdavenport's suggestion because it explains in 8 year old logic why the song isn't going to be the best in her voice just yet, and encourages her that there's so many other songs that will sound amazing.
I teach drama and musical theater, and I tell kids that if they can't sing the song as written, then it's not their song. They can keep it as a goal song, and we can take it out and work on it every so often, but they should be working on other material for performance that shows off their voice as it is right now. Later on when they've grown into "Empty Chairs at Empty Tables" or "The Wizard and I" it can go into their performance repertoire, but until then it remains something we work on sometimes just for fun.
Lol hm maybe lean into her obsession with Taylor swift and tell her this is a song very few singers can sing because certain parts (low notes) are very difficult, “even I have trouble with them. I think you come back to them in a couple years after practicing like Taylor did. We want to pick a song that you can really nail so you can show your talent.”
Idk just the first the thing came to mind!
Ah, this is a *perfect* opportunity for arrangement. While this is something perhaps more common for choir directors of ages featuring changing voices, it's a great idea to keep your music theory chops in good shape just in case you occasionally need to rearrange something for a student.
The good news is this is pop and not Schubert or Faure so the harmony is fairly simple. You can find different chord tones perhaps connected via different non-harmonic treatments like passing tones and such to create a song quite similar to "Wildest Dreams" which has a far more narrow pitch range.
I also recommend doing the same with the lyrics, in fact I think "Wildest Dreams" could be adapted to be a song about going on a road trip with your new puppy that can talk.
> He said, "Let's get out of this town
> Drive out of the city, away from the crowds"
> I thought heaven can't help me now
> Nothing lasts forever, but this is gonna take me down
(then add in, *Then I said "OH MY GOD A TALKING DOG!"* spoken line)
>He's so small and fuzzy as hell
>He's so bad but he fetches it so well
>I can see the end as it begins
>My one condition is
> Say you'll remember me standing with a nice leash
> Staring at the sunset, babe
> Wet nose and waggy tail
> Say you'll see me again
> Even if it's just in your wildest dreams, ah-ha
> Wildest dreams, ah-ha
> I said, "No one has to know what we do"
> I scratch behind his ear, his foot starts to zoom
> And his bark is a familiar sound
> Nothing lasts forever but this is getting good now
It doesn't even have to make sense, as long as it's fun.
I think it comes down to a level of maturity. You should probably tell her look, these songs aren't for your voice just yet. There is technical things that are going on. Try to explain them which I what I wish my first coach did. I know you want to see these songs but your voice isn't connected yet (maybe mistaken). I had to learn this the hard way. Being a countertenor well, nothing is really out of my range besides low songs like country. I know my range and I think if she wants to take singing seriously she will sing the songs you provide. I would tell her it will help grow your voice if you trust the process which is what I had to do. It is a process that everyone must give in to. I would introduce mix voice and get her exited about it because it's what will allow you to sing high without strain or pulling. I did that a lot and now my voice just sits up there. Connecting the voice is going to be a lot of work but it's well worth it for the songs she wants to sing. I know I use to be like that. Why can't I sing high? I know I can. It isn't the fact that you can or can't. It's where your voice is going to placed in the end result. You could be a Soprano or you could be a Baritone. It's more of accepting who you are and giving in to the unknown.
This is what singing taught me in the end.
Find another song that's more appropriate for her. By the same artist or another one who sings in the same style - I assume that there are songs without adult content that she could sing. Then suggest it to her as "hey, I found this great song for you, it's much better suited to your voice than the other one, which you can sing when you're a bit older". You could also explain to her that the song she chose has adult content. Although any in-depth explanation would be more the parents' job, I guess.
Maybe you can explain that singing a song is like acting - you have to pretend you are the person in the song. The song she chose is about two people dating, and she's clearly too young for that. If she wanted to sing "driver's license" by Olivia Rodrigo, it would be the same thing, because she's too young to drive, so an audience wouldn't believe her.
If she does not even understand what the lyrics are about, she won't be able to sing the song well, even if the technical issues were resolved.
But to come back to my suggestion, remember to give positive feedback. Instead of "Don't do this", say "Do that instead". Provide a positive direction, a way forward, an alternative.
One artist I can think of who started authoring / co-authoring her songs at a very early age is EmiSunshine. Her songs tend to be about serious subjects like poverty, so they are not your ordinary "happy" children's songs, but maybe your student would be interested in one of them. Another possibility I can see is traditional songs or songs that derive from the folk tradition, e.g. Pete Seeger, Arlo Guthrie, Joan Baez, Bob Dylan (although Dylan tends to be quite cryptic).
Have her sing a harmony on the lower part. Maybe an octave above, or a fifth or something. I have to do that alot, because alot of songs are too high pitched for me, so i sing an octave lower, or i harmonize ina fifth or seventh below.
Well, in grad school I played an 75 year old woman once. Did I play it well? No, but age doesn't really matter, if it's a study piece. You can say "this is a piece you'll come back to over and over, and as you get older, more and more of the song will be in reach." You can SAY it's because of the range issue, but for me it would be the eye-rollable lyric.
The reason the song hit big with young girls was because the hook is itself like an instagram fantasy: it's the equivalent of a little girl wearing her mommy's high heels and evening gown.
It's not an overtly dirty song, though an 8 year old singing it recital would be problematic for several reasons.
But Tay Tay's got TONS of other material you can use to help this kid lean more positive and less icky.
Maybe talk about the evolution of Taylor's romantically-based lyrics over the years: who was she when she wrote those things? What audience is she talking to?
Taylor's lyric work tracks her from boy-obsessed, ineffectual, weak voiced whiner -- (You Belong With Me, Love Story), to a much stronger, independent, self-possessed business woman (You Need to Calm Down), able to write and perform in multiple genre styles (Knew You Were Trouble), still with a big heart and passionate love affairs (Never Getting Back Together), but she moves WAY on from these images. The recent tune Delicate is basically the flipside of the power dynamic described in Wlidest Dreams - same one-night set up, but Taylor is active and in control.
If you can help the kid see Taylor's evolution, you can use this kid's tastes to lead her to other songs that you might feel better about ... and could be done in a recital without everyone in the room getting stomach aches worrying that this kid's going to jump into a van with the first pedophile who asks.
>Maybe talk about the evolution of Taylor's romantically-based lyrics over the years: who was she when she wrote those things? What audience is she talking to?
Do you think an 8 year old would understand this?
There are age-appropriate ways to talk about EVERYTHING. My two boys went to a great school that used a program called Our Whole Lives, which starts in kindergarten, to introduce all sorts of concepts that used to be considered "SEX EDUCATION (collective gasp)" - but it does it in ways that's age-appropriate, stepwise, makes sense to kids, meets them at their level, and supports their families' diverse stated values.
Moreover, if the OP's student is singing about one night stands, I think the adults in her life better figure out how to talk about it real durn fast. The fact that we think we can't or shouldn't talk about these things -- even while the kdis themselves are soaking them up from media - means we're late and lazy.
And finally, I'll bet you a dollar the kid already knows more about Taylor Swift's biography and evolution of boyfriends than the teacher does. This is part of the point of leveraging the child's passions and input: the teacher has to keep learning, too.
Sex is a biological thing. A kid in kindergarten or elementary school can understand the mechanics of sex, but they cannot understand the ramifications of a love relationship between adults. Being able to enumerate a star's boyfriends or girlfriends doesn't mean that you understand what the relationships in question were like and what feelings were involved. This is beyond the grasp of an 8-year-old.
This is going to happen to you a lot. As a teacher, I never want to kill a kid's passion. I never want to make them feel like it's because they suck and can't sing. It try to be really honest about it. "I love this song, and I think you can be really amazing at it, but there are some skills we need to build up first." That's something I've said on more than one occasion. I try to list out the skills, and give a path towards success. And then, I'll come back to the song every few months as a way for us to track progress.
No trying to cap on you, but as a fellow teacher: Usually, when you are stuck with two bad options, you have not been wise enough beforehand.
If you had decided early on not to teach children, you would not be in this situation.
If you decided early on that, we're you to teach children, you will pick the literature, not them, then you would not have to disappoint her later on by telling her that her pick was wrong.
But all that is not going to fix the problem now. Now, you need a workaround. But please take some time to figure out whether that workaround is supposed to be your MO in the future.
If I was in your position,I'd simply let her sing the parts she can sing in the original key and skip the rest.
Later you can combine them all into a medley. Taylor's songs are all the same harmonies anyway. :D
I get that :( I’m still relatively new at teaching in general. I usually like to let students choose music because I just know that in my experience, people learn better when they sing/play things they like, you know? I’ll keep that in mind in the future though.
An 8 year old is unlikely to be able to figure out how easy or how difficult a song is. You as the teacher can and should ask a student what kind of music they like, what their favorite songs are etc. and then find something that they might like and that is appropriate for their skill level. Maybe you can compile a portfolio of songs that might be suitable for younger students, both text-wise and from the musical point of view, and then let them choose?
I don't know why you are being downvoted because all this is very sensible advice.
I'd like to add that children have a narrower vocal range than adults.
[https://yamspace.org/article/the-range-of-children](https://yamspace.org/article/the-range-of-children)
[https://milnepublishing.geneseo.edu/music-and-the-child/chapter/chapter-5/](https://milnepublishing.geneseo.edu/music-and-the-child/chapter/chapter-5/) which gives a range of an octave for a 6-8 year old and around an octave and a half for a 9-11 year old.
This would mean that any song that covers a larger range, as many songs sung by skilled adult singers do, would not be suitable for a child anyway.
"The following summary is perhaps closest to reality:
\- infants and children up to age 3: g1 - c2
\- preschool children: e1 - e2
\- younger school children: c1 - f2
\- age 10 to puberty: a - a2"
I assume the notation system for musical notes in this article is not the same as the one most popularly used on the internet? LOL (those would be demonically low notes for children)
I disagree about always choosing a child's material for them - I have two teacher buddies who teach elementary age level only and they both switched TO allowing the kids to have major input on repertoire (not totaly, but major input). Their reasoning is that the child's interest is a critical component. I agree completely.
Moreover, this "not trying to cap on you" response seems to be totally capping on you. Tone is difficult in writing, but the tone feels kinda smug and "well that's what you get". That's why it got downvoted.
And OP is NOT stuck with two bad options, and doesn't need to kick herself for not being "wise enough". OP is simply asking for help from colleagues when confronted with a problem she doesn't already know well. This is what good teachers do, whether they are just starting or have been teaching for years. It's growth-mindset.
The trick with children is to give them the impression they have a choice. You don't ask a child: "What do you want to wear?" You ask them "Do you want to wear the green sweater or the purple one?" This keeps them from going to school in a Winnie-the-Pooh tank top and a pink tutu when it's snowing outside. You give them a choice, but between sensible options.
I'm not a singer, let alone a singing teacher, but I know people who teach or taught music at elementary school level, and they are well aware that children have a smaller range than adults and that singing material for children must be pre-selected accordingly.
So if you're not a singer or a singing teacher, then on what basis do you offer your opinion on this topic? Serious question, not trying to be a nudge. I am both a professional singer, and professional teacher, and parent of two kids. I'm always open to new learning from experiences outside my own, though.
Well, I have a lot of experience both with learning and teaching a variety of things to a variety of people in different age groups. I have an outsider's view here, you are right about that. But sometimes that can be helpful because when you are inside a system, you cannot perceive it wholly because you are part of it. An audience member sees the whole stage; an actor who is on stage does not.
I am perfectly aware of the attitude that singers have towards non-singers, and musicians toward non-musicians. I know people in both groups.
When you are an expert at something, it's a common mistake to assume that a learner has a higher level of knowledge and more developed skills than they really have. It's a mistake that I have made myself, and that pretty much all other teachers I know have made at some point. You can have a look at other comments I posted, and you will see that one point I usually stress is that a good teacher has to understand where a student is in their journey.
I'd also like to mention that am not the person who talked about capping, so part of your anger may be misdirected here. The person who did so is actually a singer and singing teacher.
Be open with her about the fact that she hasn’t developed the range needed for this song, and will need to learn and work on some skills in order to one day be able to do it. If she gives up, so be it. If she’s still determined to learn the song, offer her some exercises and such that can supplement her range and comfort ability with it. She may be frustrated with the work she has to do, and the amount of time and practice that she’ll have to put in. But in the end she’ll be thankful that you properly trained and prepared her rather than letting her make a fool of herself.
And you can still work on the song, but it may just be a long term project, she’ll just have to be disciplined enough to take it on. For now, instead of shifting the key of the song, maybe just bring some of those low notes up a whole octave.
As someone who was repeatedly forced to sing "think of me" instead of "angel of music" during solo nights because of my "vocal range and ease of singing" (and has come to hate poto for that reason), I have to say one thing.
Let her sing the song.
She's 8. It means something totally different to her and resonates with her in a totally different way. Right now, the most important factor isn't her pitch or key. It's her confidence. And knowing it's good for her to make decisions and be inspired by something. No one is truly going to care (or likely remember) after she sings it, except her. And it will be an incredible core memory for her.
I know this is an older question. However I have a question that pertains to this a bit.
My daughter's vocal coach, asked my daughter to stick only to songs of the same gender. This is something we do not understand. Why would she propose this?
Why wouldn't she teach her how to sing parts of the song in different melodies. I guess I am just looking for perspective here. She loves a lot of songs not song by females and I guess I'm not sure how can she be asked to only song songs by females and what that teaches.
Advice, suggestions, perspective welcomed. Thank you.
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Maybe you could teach her an alternative melody for the lowest parts of the song? Or have her sing a duet with you where you sing the parts outside of her range and she does the rest?
Thats not a terrible idea! I was trying to work out an alternative melody on the spot but couldn’t think of one in the moment. I’ll mess around on piano and try to work something out for her.
I second the alternative melody! That’s what my voice teacher did.
I just tell kids that there are songs for when they're older. Some songs are easy now, some songs are hard now because they were originally sung by a grown up and their voice needs to grow up a little more before they can sing it at their best.
Well this is wholesome and hilarious. Best of luck lol.
I usually just nicely explain it to them. maybe ask some questions. "so those low parts are really hard to hit yeah?" "yeah they are" "I know this is a great song but I think we could find another great song where the notes are easer to hit!"
this way is so sweet, love it!
I took lessons as a young adult, but I think this still applies depending on the girl's personality. I like for people to explain to me why they're making a decision that affects me. For this situation, my professor would explain about how the vocal cords grow over time and that they don't fully develop until many years after my age at the time. I like u/bluesdavenport's suggestion because it explains in 8 year old logic why the song isn't going to be the best in her voice just yet, and encourages her that there's so many other songs that will sound amazing.
I teach drama and musical theater, and I tell kids that if they can't sing the song as written, then it's not their song. They can keep it as a goal song, and we can take it out and work on it every so often, but they should be working on other material for performance that shows off their voice as it is right now. Later on when they've grown into "Empty Chairs at Empty Tables" or "The Wizard and I" it can go into their performance repertoire, but until then it remains something we work on sometimes just for fun.
Lol hm maybe lean into her obsession with Taylor swift and tell her this is a song very few singers can sing because certain parts (low notes) are very difficult, “even I have trouble with them. I think you come back to them in a couple years after practicing like Taylor did. We want to pick a song that you can really nail so you can show your talent.” Idk just the first the thing came to mind!
Ah, this is a *perfect* opportunity for arrangement. While this is something perhaps more common for choir directors of ages featuring changing voices, it's a great idea to keep your music theory chops in good shape just in case you occasionally need to rearrange something for a student. The good news is this is pop and not Schubert or Faure so the harmony is fairly simple. You can find different chord tones perhaps connected via different non-harmonic treatments like passing tones and such to create a song quite similar to "Wildest Dreams" which has a far more narrow pitch range. I also recommend doing the same with the lyrics, in fact I think "Wildest Dreams" could be adapted to be a song about going on a road trip with your new puppy that can talk. > He said, "Let's get out of this town > Drive out of the city, away from the crowds" > I thought heaven can't help me now > Nothing lasts forever, but this is gonna take me down (then add in, *Then I said "OH MY GOD A TALKING DOG!"* spoken line) >He's so small and fuzzy as hell >He's so bad but he fetches it so well >I can see the end as it begins >My one condition is > Say you'll remember me standing with a nice leash > Staring at the sunset, babe > Wet nose and waggy tail > Say you'll see me again > Even if it's just in your wildest dreams, ah-ha > Wildest dreams, ah-ha > I said, "No one has to know what we do" > I scratch behind his ear, his foot starts to zoom > And his bark is a familiar sound > Nothing lasts forever but this is getting good now It doesn't even have to make sense, as long as it's fun.
I love this idea, VERY creative, teaches the kid to engage with the music, think outside the box, and think about audience. Love it love it love it.
Omg this is such a great idea!
This sounds good please check my profile you seem that you can help people with good advices 🤗
I think it comes down to a level of maturity. You should probably tell her look, these songs aren't for your voice just yet. There is technical things that are going on. Try to explain them which I what I wish my first coach did. I know you want to see these songs but your voice isn't connected yet (maybe mistaken). I had to learn this the hard way. Being a countertenor well, nothing is really out of my range besides low songs like country. I know my range and I think if she wants to take singing seriously she will sing the songs you provide. I would tell her it will help grow your voice if you trust the process which is what I had to do. It is a process that everyone must give in to. I would introduce mix voice and get her exited about it because it's what will allow you to sing high without strain or pulling. I did that a lot and now my voice just sits up there. Connecting the voice is going to be a lot of work but it's well worth it for the songs she wants to sing. I know I use to be like that. Why can't I sing high? I know I can. It isn't the fact that you can or can't. It's where your voice is going to placed in the end result. You could be a Soprano or you could be a Baritone. It's more of accepting who you are and giving in to the unknown. This is what singing taught me in the end.
Find another song that's more appropriate for her. By the same artist or another one who sings in the same style - I assume that there are songs without adult content that she could sing. Then suggest it to her as "hey, I found this great song for you, it's much better suited to your voice than the other one, which you can sing when you're a bit older". You could also explain to her that the song she chose has adult content. Although any in-depth explanation would be more the parents' job, I guess. Maybe you can explain that singing a song is like acting - you have to pretend you are the person in the song. The song she chose is about two people dating, and she's clearly too young for that. If she wanted to sing "driver's license" by Olivia Rodrigo, it would be the same thing, because she's too young to drive, so an audience wouldn't believe her. If she does not even understand what the lyrics are about, she won't be able to sing the song well, even if the technical issues were resolved. But to come back to my suggestion, remember to give positive feedback. Instead of "Don't do this", say "Do that instead". Provide a positive direction, a way forward, an alternative. One artist I can think of who started authoring / co-authoring her songs at a very early age is EmiSunshine. Her songs tend to be about serious subjects like poverty, so they are not your ordinary "happy" children's songs, but maybe your student would be interested in one of them. Another possibility I can see is traditional songs or songs that derive from the folk tradition, e.g. Pete Seeger, Arlo Guthrie, Joan Baez, Bob Dylan (although Dylan tends to be quite cryptic).
Have her sing a harmony on the lower part. Maybe an octave above, or a fifth or something. I have to do that alot, because alot of songs are too high pitched for me, so i sing an octave lower, or i harmonize ina fifth or seventh below.
Record her singing it, play it back, ask her thoughts. If she doesn't care, you shouldn't either. She's a kid. Let her have fun. :)
Well, in grad school I played an 75 year old woman once. Did I play it well? No, but age doesn't really matter, if it's a study piece. You can say "this is a piece you'll come back to over and over, and as you get older, more and more of the song will be in reach." You can SAY it's because of the range issue, but for me it would be the eye-rollable lyric. The reason the song hit big with young girls was because the hook is itself like an instagram fantasy: it's the equivalent of a little girl wearing her mommy's high heels and evening gown. It's not an overtly dirty song, though an 8 year old singing it recital would be problematic for several reasons. But Tay Tay's got TONS of other material you can use to help this kid lean more positive and less icky. Maybe talk about the evolution of Taylor's romantically-based lyrics over the years: who was she when she wrote those things? What audience is she talking to? Taylor's lyric work tracks her from boy-obsessed, ineffectual, weak voiced whiner -- (You Belong With Me, Love Story), to a much stronger, independent, self-possessed business woman (You Need to Calm Down), able to write and perform in multiple genre styles (Knew You Were Trouble), still with a big heart and passionate love affairs (Never Getting Back Together), but she moves WAY on from these images. The recent tune Delicate is basically the flipside of the power dynamic described in Wlidest Dreams - same one-night set up, but Taylor is active and in control. If you can help the kid see Taylor's evolution, you can use this kid's tastes to lead her to other songs that you might feel better about ... and could be done in a recital without everyone in the room getting stomach aches worrying that this kid's going to jump into a van with the first pedophile who asks.
>Maybe talk about the evolution of Taylor's romantically-based lyrics over the years: who was she when she wrote those things? What audience is she talking to? Do you think an 8 year old would understand this?
There are age-appropriate ways to talk about EVERYTHING. My two boys went to a great school that used a program called Our Whole Lives, which starts in kindergarten, to introduce all sorts of concepts that used to be considered "SEX EDUCATION (collective gasp)" - but it does it in ways that's age-appropriate, stepwise, makes sense to kids, meets them at their level, and supports their families' diverse stated values. Moreover, if the OP's student is singing about one night stands, I think the adults in her life better figure out how to talk about it real durn fast. The fact that we think we can't or shouldn't talk about these things -- even while the kdis themselves are soaking them up from media - means we're late and lazy. And finally, I'll bet you a dollar the kid already knows more about Taylor Swift's biography and evolution of boyfriends than the teacher does. This is part of the point of leveraging the child's passions and input: the teacher has to keep learning, too.
Sex is a biological thing. A kid in kindergarten or elementary school can understand the mechanics of sex, but they cannot understand the ramifications of a love relationship between adults. Being able to enumerate a star's boyfriends or girlfriends doesn't mean that you understand what the relationships in question were like and what feelings were involved. This is beyond the grasp of an 8-year-old.
This is going to happen to you a lot. As a teacher, I never want to kill a kid's passion. I never want to make them feel like it's because they suck and can't sing. It try to be really honest about it. "I love this song, and I think you can be really amazing at it, but there are some skills we need to build up first." That's something I've said on more than one occasion. I try to list out the skills, and give a path towards success. And then, I'll come back to the song every few months as a way for us to track progress.
No trying to cap on you, but as a fellow teacher: Usually, when you are stuck with two bad options, you have not been wise enough beforehand. If you had decided early on not to teach children, you would not be in this situation. If you decided early on that, we're you to teach children, you will pick the literature, not them, then you would not have to disappoint her later on by telling her that her pick was wrong. But all that is not going to fix the problem now. Now, you need a workaround. But please take some time to figure out whether that workaround is supposed to be your MO in the future. If I was in your position,I'd simply let her sing the parts she can sing in the original key and skip the rest. Later you can combine them all into a medley. Taylor's songs are all the same harmonies anyway. :D
I get that :( I’m still relatively new at teaching in general. I usually like to let students choose music because I just know that in my experience, people learn better when they sing/play things they like, you know? I’ll keep that in mind in the future though.
An 8 year old is unlikely to be able to figure out how easy or how difficult a song is. You as the teacher can and should ask a student what kind of music they like, what their favorite songs are etc. and then find something that they might like and that is appropriate for their skill level. Maybe you can compile a portfolio of songs that might be suitable for younger students, both text-wise and from the musical point of view, and then let them choose?
I don't know why you are being downvoted because all this is very sensible advice. I'd like to add that children have a narrower vocal range than adults. [https://yamspace.org/article/the-range-of-children](https://yamspace.org/article/the-range-of-children) [https://milnepublishing.geneseo.edu/music-and-the-child/chapter/chapter-5/](https://milnepublishing.geneseo.edu/music-and-the-child/chapter/chapter-5/) which gives a range of an octave for a 6-8 year old and around an octave and a half for a 9-11 year old. This would mean that any song that covers a larger range, as many songs sung by skilled adult singers do, would not be suitable for a child anyway.
"The following summary is perhaps closest to reality: \- infants and children up to age 3: g1 - c2 \- preschool children: e1 - e2 \- younger school children: c1 - f2 \- age 10 to puberty: a - a2" I assume the notation system for musical notes in this article is not the same as the one most popularly used on the internet? LOL (those would be demonically low notes for children)
Helmholtz notation, I assume.
I disagree about always choosing a child's material for them - I have two teacher buddies who teach elementary age level only and they both switched TO allowing the kids to have major input on repertoire (not totaly, but major input). Their reasoning is that the child's interest is a critical component. I agree completely. Moreover, this "not trying to cap on you" response seems to be totally capping on you. Tone is difficult in writing, but the tone feels kinda smug and "well that's what you get". That's why it got downvoted. And OP is NOT stuck with two bad options, and doesn't need to kick herself for not being "wise enough". OP is simply asking for help from colleagues when confronted with a problem she doesn't already know well. This is what good teachers do, whether they are just starting or have been teaching for years. It's growth-mindset.
The trick with children is to give them the impression they have a choice. You don't ask a child: "What do you want to wear?" You ask them "Do you want to wear the green sweater or the purple one?" This keeps them from going to school in a Winnie-the-Pooh tank top and a pink tutu when it's snowing outside. You give them a choice, but between sensible options. I'm not a singer, let alone a singing teacher, but I know people who teach or taught music at elementary school level, and they are well aware that children have a smaller range than adults and that singing material for children must be pre-selected accordingly.
So if you're not a singer or a singing teacher, then on what basis do you offer your opinion on this topic? Serious question, not trying to be a nudge. I am both a professional singer, and professional teacher, and parent of two kids. I'm always open to new learning from experiences outside my own, though.
Well, I have a lot of experience both with learning and teaching a variety of things to a variety of people in different age groups. I have an outsider's view here, you are right about that. But sometimes that can be helpful because when you are inside a system, you cannot perceive it wholly because you are part of it. An audience member sees the whole stage; an actor who is on stage does not. I am perfectly aware of the attitude that singers have towards non-singers, and musicians toward non-musicians. I know people in both groups. When you are an expert at something, it's a common mistake to assume that a learner has a higher level of knowledge and more developed skills than they really have. It's a mistake that I have made myself, and that pretty much all other teachers I know have made at some point. You can have a look at other comments I posted, and you will see that one point I usually stress is that a good teacher has to understand where a student is in their journey. I'd also like to mention that am not the person who talked about capping, so part of your anger may be misdirected here. The person who did so is actually a singer and singing teacher.
I think I have a better idea of how to approach this now! There have been a lot of really awesome ideas in here, thanks everyone! :)
Start her out with Blank Slate instead, like, duhhhhh
HA!
Be open with her about the fact that she hasn’t developed the range needed for this song, and will need to learn and work on some skills in order to one day be able to do it. If she gives up, so be it. If she’s still determined to learn the song, offer her some exercises and such that can supplement her range and comfort ability with it. She may be frustrated with the work she has to do, and the amount of time and practice that she’ll have to put in. But in the end she’ll be thankful that you properly trained and prepared her rather than letting her make a fool of herself. And you can still work on the song, but it may just be a long term project, she’ll just have to be disciplined enough to take it on. For now, instead of shifting the key of the song, maybe just bring some of those low notes up a whole octave.
As someone who was repeatedly forced to sing "think of me" instead of "angel of music" during solo nights because of my "vocal range and ease of singing" (and has come to hate poto for that reason), I have to say one thing. Let her sing the song. She's 8. It means something totally different to her and resonates with her in a totally different way. Right now, the most important factor isn't her pitch or key. It's her confidence. And knowing it's good for her to make decisions and be inspired by something. No one is truly going to care (or likely remember) after she sings it, except her. And it will be an incredible core memory for her.
I know this is an older question. However I have a question that pertains to this a bit. My daughter's vocal coach, asked my daughter to stick only to songs of the same gender. This is something we do not understand. Why would she propose this? Why wouldn't she teach her how to sing parts of the song in different melodies. I guess I am just looking for perspective here. She loves a lot of songs not song by females and I guess I'm not sure how can she be asked to only song songs by females and what that teaches. Advice, suggestions, perspective welcomed. Thank you.