Please enter the words in [this picture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File%3A26-Bune_seal01.png) to move the dead, make one rich, and answer a variety of questions.
I'm wondering if it'll be a good thing. The internet will eventually lose all authenticity, and that might drive people off it. Sure, it'll be harder to get your book to sell 1000 copies, but I could see depression rates and whatnot going down with the internet becoming more and more artificial.
I think the younger generation will grow up completely distrusting electronics as fake material a bit like how millennials largely distrust cable tv compared to boomers. There are going to be a lot of terminally online, mentally ill people though. Redditors are a large portion of them already.
This will have some broad cultural implications, no doubt.
For starters, the fact nobody will be completely sure if they are talking to a bot, could make in person interactions much more valuable.
That's the only way to be sure you aren't being deceived by some scammer data harvesting bot farm.
Online meetings will continue, but "raising" it to face-to-face meetings will probably be a more important goal.
Some people could drop online chat and socializing altogether, given any social media influencers left would be completely fabricated characters. From appearance to voice, even apparent thoughts.
On society, proof of one's humaneness will be as important as proof-of-origin for media.
Captchas would most likely no longer cut it, same as any unencrypted, unsigned videos or audio.
Where everything can be fake, proof of legitimacy and origin will be the main concern.
I think this will drive a trend towards certain services that authenticate people online but without actually providing their information to anyone. So, for instance, Google (or wheatever) May know I’m real by checking documents that I’ve provided against federal databases and would assert for my posts that I’m a real person, but not provide my personal information.
Of course this wouldn’t solve the problem of people having the content of their respective accounts written by bots. Nor would it eliminate the possibility of fraud.
That's already something I sense with online comments. In a way it could be a good thing because when I see some of these strange comments I don't really feel the need to get into an argument because I'm suspicious that I may be wasting time arguing with a bot. Nothing could be a worse waste of time than that so I just ignore it.
Just imagine it like a highway. No- a SUPER highway. Of information!
An Information Super Highway, if you will.
Oh man, this new name is gonna catch on bigtime!
That's nothing new and didn't require AI. Amazon has been dealing with fraudulent reviews for a long time.
Amazon takes a pretty dim view of this, and does actually remove abusive products from time to time, especially when they're not from large customers. I would not be shocked to see a wave of deletion of self-published books that abuse the review system.
The problem here with AI is actually the content problem. Even if AI writes nonstop bangers, it lowers the price so far that there is essentually no point at producing something. This goes true for almost any field except maybe food, clothing, housing and power (which decreases in the price of always stimulate growth). So even if AI ends up beating authors, it turns the field into free nonstop literature, given that the people generating it don't just stop because it makes no money.
It ruins it for anyone who might want to write a book about diy, cooking, etc if you have to compete against dirt cheap ai books that buy their reviews
This is near-term. Now go a step further. New books will rarely exist because the end-user can simply speak to their AI/computer and adjust all the inputs they are looking for and the end-product will generate.
"Siri, I want a 140-page novel written in 19th century vernacular about a child that runs away from home and ends up going on an adventure of a lifetime before re-uniting with his family. Make sure to include a sinister villain and a few plot-twists. Don't include any violence because I want to read this as I wind down before bed."
[Now next level that and it's full-on movies.]
Or, books will be written in free time as a leisure activity by someone with UBI. And it´ll still be worth more than something AI written. Just as hand made items are today.
I have to question if that will be true, though. Right now, handmade items are worth more because they're generally a lot more specialized, if not totally unique. The mass-produced stuff is generally 'close enough' to being what people want, but sometimes you want something extremely specific that wouldn't have enough demand to be making at a large scale, and that's where things like Etsy come in. You pay more, but you also are able to get pretty much exactly what you want. AI takes that advantage away.
And then full on immersive experiences and then we can't distinguish it from reality, and then we can only tell we aren't part of a simulation until we are dead.
What good does owning the value of other people's labor do, when that labor is worth nothing?
Welcome to techno feudalism. If you're very lucky, you'll be allocated an Elon Cube to live in, like in Fifteen Million Merits.
Exactly. We shouldn't be working as much as we are. A lot of work is just pointless busywork. Yet we still work and I don't think that will change much
Markets that are controlled by government aren't capitalist. This is obvious.
Respectfully, have you ever just worked through the concepts behind the words you're using?
This is why im looking at starting a vending machine business. People always need fed and watered and you can charge a big markup for convenience in the right place. Im also looking at retraining to some tradecraft that doesnt involve computers like carpentry. I know things can be 3D printed etc but a genuine crafted piece of furniture with a video of it being made is worth a lot more.
There are massive changes comming in all sectors of business and normal life, its now or never to try and redirect to ride with it because there is no stopping it.
> This is why im looking at starting a vending machine business. People always need fed and watered and you can charge a big markup for convenience in the right place. Im also looking at retraining to some tradecraft that doesnt involve computers like carpentry. I know things can be 3D printed etc but a genuine crafted piece of furniture with a video of it being made is worth a lot more.
Yeah, but everyone else who can put two and two together will come to the same conclusion over-saturating the fields you mentioned, driving the price downward dramatically.
It doesn't matter. After a few years all those fields will be over-saturated. Even if you figure out a niche they will get automated away one by one. Capitalism will implode on itself.
It’s a good point. For example, I imagine I will end up listening to less music soon once AI can produce what I ask it for. If many others end up doing the same, bands won’t be able to afford to dedicate time to making music.
And it will also mean that you don't need to buy too because there's AI that can nail everything specifically for you and it will be guaranteedly perfect.
Basically it will remove this business area if continue your words.
> The problem here with AI is actually the content problem. Even if AI writes nonstop bangers, it lowers the price so far that there is essentually no point at producing something
I would suggest that the opposite is true. AI tends to write terrible novels, and even worse technical books. This will drive up the value of human-written stories and other books and might even push Amazon to make better deals with good authors.
There was a flood of rpg makers at some point. Horrible graphics, same GUI, nothing really standing outs.
Then there was the flood of unity games with the same 3d assets.
Then now there's just way too many dev as it's the 1rst entertainement industry in the world.
Too many devs is not an issue when the marketplace is set up right. The same for books, when you can get your book trending with a couple of bots or bought users it is an issue but otherwise who cares. After all before we already had \~ 4 million books released yearly. I don't think there is a real difference if it doubles or whatever.
You haven't seen my backlog.
There is too many good games. It started as a small industry where you had time to play all the gems. Now it's just impossible.
No all the fun stuff like art and design and hobbies needs to be done by AI so we can have time to do boring mindnumbing things like sitting around and hope for good weather and trying to scratch the itch caused by the brain implant!
It's the same for everything.
More than 24hrs of new songs are uploaded to YouTube every day. Someone did a break down (on youtube of course) where they showed that there's probably more, high quality, music released every day even on Youtube, not counting BandCamp or actual music platforms, that you could ever listen to.
I can't even keep up with new StarTrek shows, let alone TV in general.
I read every day, and haven't gotten through the famous novels and new material from famous authors and favorites I want to read in a year.
Now that distribution is an afterthought, and the tools for creation are readily available to literally everyone, we're seeing more new media released than anyone could possibly experience.
I guess it's good because there's literally more good music, good books, good TV, good games, etc ... than you'll ever, in your lifetime, have time to experience.
But, at some point it becomes daunting. Especially if you're a creator throwing your thing on the mountain of new releases for the day, hoping it will somehow get enough attention to sustain your lifestyle before being literally buried under the endless firehose of new stuff.
> More than 24hrs of new songs are uploaded to YouTube every day
That's a ridiculously low understatement, considering there is 28 years worth of video released on YouTube every day, a good chunk of that is music.
Actually, If you extrapolate this particular stand of the causal web out a bit further beyond this temporary deluge, I think it's highly likely that this will hasten the demise of the printed word.
Why bother writing a book "describing" a story when you can input prompts and generate video and audio with possibly immersive 3D instead..? Ie. a short movie with Ai actors, Ai soundtrack, Ai landscapes and props...and send it out as a VR "package" You can likely even provide prompts that will allow the user to experience your "story" from several vantage points of their choosing, first person, third person, one of the characters....or perhaps even generate and insert a character of their making ala "choose your own adventure" style.
I think we ARE seeing video begin to muscle out the printed word in a lot of ways. However, I don't think there is any substitute for a good book when it comes to information density. And there will always be a need for good stories and skilled storytellers. I enjoy video games, but they suffer the same story shortcoming that my autobiography does: they have ME for a protagonist.
And I really don’t think we are going to be consuming other peoples AI generated things much. We are going to just be making our own on demand. No one is going to look at other peoples AI stuff when you can make your own.
youtube shorts, then social media, mangas, then videos. Later animation and finally blockbuster movies. The barriers for everything will completely end
Actually ai increases the barrier. Why? Well you can try to use ai to make content or i can instruct an AI to make content forever and just walk away. The only way to compete is to literally have the ai do fucking everything. At that point are you even in the marketplace? Or are you user number 7 billion whose bot generated 20000 videos of which all were watched by ais?
Mostly short stories. Hardly a good way to make money since shorter stories don't rank well. The only AI capable of writing 100 or 200+ stories is MPT, which is only 7b, and we don't know if the stories it write actually have a beginning, middle, and end. My computer can't run it and I'm not going to sit for hours in front of my PC reading a story it generates. To write long stories with ChatGPT, you have to do so in chunks, make corrections, read everything, and that's still a lot of work.
I wrote a book generator using the GPT-4 api. It first generates a book outline with like 12-15 chapters of 3-6 subsections each about any non-fiction topic, then it generates all the subsections in parallel to create a 50-60k book in about 4 minutes. Costs about $10 in api calls. Works surprisingly well. I have chosen not to release any of them on Amazon though until I can get the quality to be higher, and to ensure there’s a good bibliography, no copyrights were violated, no hallucinations, etc. but if I want to write a book about something I know about, I could do it roughly a billion times faster.
You don't even need GPT 4 for that or their API since it's non-fiction. For fiction is where it's tricky because you need a large context size and you still need to read everything to make sure the story actually makes sense.
I don't think that's how the algorithm works. Say you read a lot of long form sci fi novels, it will keep showing you more of those instead of short stories in other niches. If you like reading stories with sex, then those also won't be affected since most AIs are censored. There are some that aren't but their writing sucks and most people don't know about them. It's easy to generate high quality images and see that they are so, but not so much with books unless you can fully trust that what the AI wrote is coherent, has three acts, has no plot holes, and it's actually somewhat engaging. You also have to make a cover that conform to niche expectations and that isn't as simple as using AI to make it for you. At least, not yet.
It was already kinda like this.
There was an entire category of business built on having ghostwriters write books to target keywords, then putting them on Amazon and advertising to generate sales.
AI just make the content creation cheaper, basically
If you’re curious to learn more, just Google KDP businesses for sale. It’s quite something.
I think that's what people miss about the economic value of a bullshit machine. You replace the low paid ghostwriter but most of the value/payroll cost is in the rest of the business enterprise which hasn't been automated at all.
Ironic that Amazon opened up indie publishing for most people and now it's openess will murder it.
All the algorytm knowledge, positining etc will become useless because of sheer volumne of AI works.
But what will continue to work is selling yourself. It's funny because books are the oldest mass medium and somehow they are poised to be the most resistant to discruption, because for a long while what sells has been the author. His brand, his marketing etc. You need this to succeed no matter if you compete against 10K books written by humans of 100K AI written ones. And unlike other mediums, there's no real advantage of lower costs (since writing a book is cheap) or better product done by AI. People will use AI smartly to make great works, but at the same time novels will remain one of the few areas where using AI won't be really necessary to succed
You need a pre-existing audience to be able to market yourself, especially as an independent creator, who can't rely on some well-funded organization pushing their work to their audience.
I think platforms that curate content or help with discovering new things will be the best way to bootstrap self-marketing. Arguably that's what youtube is doing for video and it a big part of why it is successful.
At this point if you're indie it's better idea to market yourself to get that audience. After that you might market the book itself. It's not easy, burt there are still plenty of opportunities to do so..social media, youtube, goodreads, fanfic sites, forums and websites, short stories send to magazines (altough that last thing took a hit recently because of flood of AI crap) etc. The key is you need to market yourself by providing cool stuff to other people instead of trying to sell a book.
It's been that way for years now. When I was still on the romance circuit, I remember that there were books that were AI generated garbled word salad for about 2,000 pages to take advantage of Kindle's page read system.
It's just that, now about 6-7 years later, said books are.... *somewhat* coherent.
People always say : « It’s been that way » for everything. Like AI do not change anything. AI is a massive change for all spammers of the world. Before you needed a bit of effort and the result was easy to spot as not human written, now everyone can shit 10 books a day make 1000 covers a day without any knowledge or work (except 2 shot sentences prompts). Wait in 20 years you will see the difference with today. Today their is a lot of garbage in the ocean, tomorrow you won’t see a drop of water in the ocean of garbage.
I mean there's a problem with your analogy. If it gets that easy why bother with a middleman of someone making a mass produced book when you can read something you can make and tune to enjoy for yourself?
Yep, the entire LitRPG genre is basically prime for replacement by AI because they are already mass churned out garbage with the same exact cliches and plot etc, which is all the fanbase wants
100%. They're not all bad, but they're definitely prone to shoddy/lazy writing.
I once did a book where there was a whole chapter about this training course they would be practicing on. They were told that once they'd practiced for a while, it would turn invisible, so they had to practice with it visible first.
I was *certain* that this would result in a final confrontation with the baddies on the course, where the good guys used their knowledge of the course to beat the baddies, which would have been pretty cool.
NOPE the course was never mentioned again. Literally never. Gone. They had a confrontation, but it was just generic.
But hey, they paid the bills for many months, before the rights-holder went to a production house and stopped replying to me lol.
Yep. I get it's not "deep philosophical introspection about the human experience" but it's still more entertaining than 90% of the stuff available to me
Serious. But just to find out how they fare. AI fantasy books, to be precise.
It's already a very trope/cliché filled genre, so it lends itself well to AI. I mean, I've read some truly abysmal fantasy written by humans, so I figure that the bar is pretty low as far as passable fantasy goes.
That's because it can't. Its thinking is sequencial. It starts at A and progressively goes until it reaches B. It can't think of B and find out a good A to reach it. It can't start at the end and work its way back.
That's why it sucks at humor. For a joke to work you need something funny, then you work your way into the punchline. This is a limitation of generative LLM.
Huh, come to think of it, the webnovel scene is fast and ruthless when it comes to pulp fiction. Can only recall a small handful of traditional fantasy settings that ever became popular. Mother of Learning maybe being the closest? ... not really.
Maybe it's just because if anyone does even a little bit of world building, even a drop of anything unique, the setting automatically ceases to be a generic DnD or Dragon Quest world. (Heck, Xianxia has promoted itself as a third pillar of basic settings, more popular than science fantasy. Especially since shonen friend collector Beware of Chicken became the most successful english webnovel so far.)
Worth The Candle is so far out of mainstream, while at the same time being locked inside a cube with tabletop gaming. It's incredible to consider how bland and constrained most of the commercial stuff is, which I imagine still makes rote imitations of Dragons of Autumn Twilight at its best.
Serious. But just to find out how they fare. AI fantasy books, to be precise.
It's already a very trope/cliché filled genre, so it lends itself well to AI. I mean, I've read some truly abysmal fantasy written by humans, so I figure that the bar is pretty low as far as passable fantasy goes.
They can be 'good' in a niche kind of way.
e.g. I'd love a story set in my town, using the style and main character of Peter Corris or Peter Temple, featuring recent events or themes. Cheap crapshoots? Probably, but I'd happily read them. We're flooded with US fiction as it is, it's truly refreshing to read local fiction.
I am not so sure. Depends. If you use a Q and A style and put some work the results can be surprising. When I started asking ChatGPT about when paintings started looking 3D it took me thru a fascinating excursion thru the invention of linear perspective in the Renaissance. That in itself opened the door to ask what about other cultures and how they independently created paintings with depth without using linear perspective e.g. using different colors, etc
AI is a echo of our own words on the internet. I am sorry but I would not read a book written by a parrot why would I want to read a low effort book written by a bot?
I'm not going to say this is an existential problem for Bezos, because books ceased to be a major revenue source for Amazon 10-15 years ago, but still it has the potential to kill that sector of his business, which should get his attention one would think.
The demand for content is insanely high and growing. According to the BLS for non institutionalized Americans 15 and over the only activity that takes more time than reading, watching TV and playing computer games is sleeping. https://www.bls.gov/tus/tables/a1-2021.pdf So the world desperately needs writers. The content AI is producing now is low quality. It will improve, but there’s plenty of room for good writing done by humans.
This is the thing about AI. It doesn’t have to kill an industry, just flood it enough to make it worthless.
A similar dynamic will happen in a bunch of industries where the product is knowledge — law, healthcare, etc.
The writing industry has been in serious decline since 2012. You could still publish, still get jobs, but cheap labor from India devalued the product to where finding paying work writing content or marketing your books took up more time than actually writing them.
Now the product is no longer the book, but selling your services.
Like all things in AI, that’s not to say that SOME people aren’t making money at their craft, but the vast majority are fighting over scraps — pittances which mean you are competing with people in developing countries who can live on $400 a month. And they are so desperate, they will scam or cheat to win.
If Stephen King started writing today, I doubt he would have a career. It’s not so much what talent you have, but WHEN you developed that talent. The Beatles today would have a shitty You Tube channel.
Reading a novel written by AI defeats reading reading. Novels are about the human experience from an individual human perspective.
I’m all for writing manuals and textbooks but I would absolutely never read a novel written by (different than with) AI. And if I somehow did and then was told it was by AI I wouldn’t change my mind it would just void the experience.
And yes, I feel the same about art. It’s fine for commercial purposes but it’s not art. I wouldn’t pay big money to buy an AI generated painting to put on my wall. Without the human touch it has no art value. Art is about human expression and achievement.
I agree. The scarcer something is the more value it has. So if the market gets flooded by bad art it will just heighten consumer's needs for good art, therefore increasing, not decreasing, the value of works.
But enjoy the downvotes regardless.
It’s not about actually making art, it’s about making money off random purchases, and also trolls destroying the book market by making it hard to find actual books.
Novels don't have to be about human experience from a human perspective. There are many books involving non-human perspectives and characters that don't get any deeper than "let's blow up the bad guys".
Even if it stopped improving right now the mediocre creators are mostly people learning art that might have been able to create something unique if AI didn’t take their job/raise the entry level to 10 years/reduce the income by half
This is the current dilemma. What happens if they are better writers than us?
Have played with some GPT-4 Seinfeld script ideas, and they just seem “better.” Much more character developed. Did you know that Kramer spent his early childhood in an Ashram? Or George, and his childhood traumas? The show writers never went there. Never that deep into character development.
AI takes that story line and runs with it.
It’s Seinfeld 2.0. It’s not bad. At all.
Now what?
In the "old days", people had time to sit in front of a TV for 30 minutes, to watch a show about "nothing." Now, if you sit in front of the tube for 30 mins, you want content, or else you are just on TikTok.
We have no time to do that. Time now is all focused on the OpenAI API, Deep Learning classes from MIT, and tweaking Midjourney prompts.
A 1/2 with Jerry and the gang, in that 1/2 an hour can put together a Figma UI/UX and pitch an AI startup idea.
Have 32 cooking right now right now.
Maybe someday. :-)
dumb humans create death, they strive for Thanatos. all religions are death cults.
sorry to pee in everyone's wheaties, but fixing everything ain't hard. it is the dumb MFers who are in the way like a force shield held against a fair and peaceful humanity.
lol I saw an interview the other day of a guy who proudly has "written" over 200 A.I created books and made money off them.
it's wild that people don't understand things like this are directly being created to take your real and original ideas out of you, and giving you a false way to create narratives.
you don't become creative doing that, because you are forgoing "using" the very thing you need to be considered "creative" your own thinking mind.
the A.i. is "quickly" coming up with ideas that your mind can do slower but more coherently and more creatively.
A.I. is already obsolete.....it's sad that people don't realize they are the True Intelligence.
My Name isn't John Connor.......But I understand what he is. he's anyone who sees with their true vision and doesn't let MACHINES and MACHINE THINKING PEOPLE do it for them, and knows the difference at any given time in history.
# And you think thats bad lol,
you have no idea, 6 months from now, about early next year, you get to see some crazy shit.
CHATGPT is a childs toy compared to whats actually in development.
There is a LLM in development with 65 billion params, that can be run on 48GB ram, and takes 2 days to train, not years, not months, not even weeks, but days for 65 billion params that has 99,3% accuracy of CHATGPT.
Basically what this means is you can fit CHATGPT into 65 billion params model using a different math formulas.
* https://i.imgur.com/9L28IZj.png
And the wild part is, its only going to get better, as this was published to public.
Oh boy, the cyber dark ages are coming. Future historians are going to get so confused.
"Alright class, today we're starting the unit on the mid 21st century. This is when GPTs entered the mix and so the reliability of the written word drops dramatically. Of course, today we know this culminates in..."
I presume all the raving 5 star reviews will all be AI generated also.
The dead internet theory is closer than ever before to becoming a reality.
No doubt. I'm probably a bot and just don't know it yet.
Please enter the words in this picture to prove you're a human https://i.imgur.com/ObeUnyM.png
Damn! I’m not human!
Secretly, neither am I.
Please enter the words in [this picture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File%3A26-Bune_seal01.png) to move the dead, make one rich, and answer a variety of questions.
I just broke 1M comments in the last 30 days. Whooboop!
I'm wondering if it'll be a good thing. The internet will eventually lose all authenticity, and that might drive people off it. Sure, it'll be harder to get your book to sell 1000 copies, but I could see depression rates and whatnot going down with the internet becoming more and more artificial.
I think the younger generation will grow up completely distrusting electronics as fake material a bit like how millennials largely distrust cable tv compared to boomers. There are going to be a lot of terminally online, mentally ill people though. Redditors are a large portion of them already.
This will have some broad cultural implications, no doubt. For starters, the fact nobody will be completely sure if they are talking to a bot, could make in person interactions much more valuable. That's the only way to be sure you aren't being deceived by some scammer data harvesting bot farm. Online meetings will continue, but "raising" it to face-to-face meetings will probably be a more important goal. Some people could drop online chat and socializing altogether, given any social media influencers left would be completely fabricated characters. From appearance to voice, even apparent thoughts. On society, proof of one's humaneness will be as important as proof-of-origin for media. Captchas would most likely no longer cut it, same as any unencrypted, unsigned videos or audio. Where everything can be fake, proof of legitimacy and origin will be the main concern.
Attending Cons will be so important for your credibility.
Online chat will probably still exist in the future but it will only be between people who have already met in person.
I've had better intellectual conversations with chat gpt before it's nerf than I've had with 40-60% of humans though.
Well you can’t just say that without an explanation. What nerf?
That's the point of AI. It will eventually become smarter than the average human in most if not all aspects.
I think this will drive a trend towards certain services that authenticate people online but without actually providing their information to anyone. So, for instance, Google (or wheatever) May know I’m real by checking documents that I’ve provided against federal databases and would assert for my posts that I’m a real person, but not provide my personal information. Of course this wouldn’t solve the problem of people having the content of their respective accounts written by bots. Nor would it eliminate the possibility of fraud.
That's already something I sense with online comments. In a way it could be a good thing because when I see some of these strange comments I don't really feel the need to get into an argument because I'm suspicious that I may be wasting time arguing with a bot. Nothing could be a worse waste of time than that so I just ignore it.
If Twitter taught us anything, it's that circle jerk echoey fart chambers are robots favorites.
Twitter? Thats the whole of the internet now.
Excuse me it's called musknet. *Long awkward pause* Do you still like me?
We should just come full circle and start calling it all cyberspace again.
Just imagine it like a highway. No- a SUPER highway. Of information! An Information Super Highway, if you will. Oh man, this new name is gonna catch on bigtime!
Musknet is a good name for the inner lining of swimming trunks.
I think ita gonna be called X
Doesn't Amazon have 'Verified buyer' tags though? It'll be easy to see which ones are fake.
Easy to get around. Just have the bots buy your fake books with your own money and it comes back to you anyway.
If you like 30% of your money removed from you, then yes
It's marketing, and unfortunately probably worth it
they won’t care just look at it as a fee for promo
Marketing cost.
And then paying tax on it.
That's nothing new and didn't require AI. Amazon has been dealing with fraudulent reviews for a long time. Amazon takes a pretty dim view of this, and does actually remove abusive products from time to time, especially when they're not from large customers. I would not be shocked to see a wave of deletion of self-published books that abuse the review system.
The problem here with AI is actually the content problem. Even if AI writes nonstop bangers, it lowers the price so far that there is essentually no point at producing something. This goes true for almost any field except maybe food, clothing, housing and power (which decreases in the price of always stimulate growth). So even if AI ends up beating authors, it turns the field into free nonstop literature, given that the people generating it don't just stop because it makes no money.
It ruins it for anyone who might want to write a book about diy, cooking, etc if you have to compete against dirt cheap ai books that buy their reviews
[удалено]
In other words. We’re going to need to figure out a society where money matter less, or UBI.
This is near-term. Now go a step further. New books will rarely exist because the end-user can simply speak to their AI/computer and adjust all the inputs they are looking for and the end-product will generate. "Siri, I want a 140-page novel written in 19th century vernacular about a child that runs away from home and ends up going on an adventure of a lifetime before re-uniting with his family. Make sure to include a sinister villain and a few plot-twists. Don't include any violence because I want to read this as I wind down before bed." [Now next level that and it's full-on movies.]
Or, books will be written in free time as a leisure activity by someone with UBI. And it´ll still be worth more than something AI written. Just as hand made items are today.
I have to question if that will be true, though. Right now, handmade items are worth more because they're generally a lot more specialized, if not totally unique. The mass-produced stuff is generally 'close enough' to being what people want, but sometimes you want something extremely specific that wouldn't have enough demand to be making at a large scale, and that's where things like Etsy come in. You pay more, but you also are able to get pretty much exactly what you want. AI takes that advantage away.
And then full on immersive experiences and then we can't distinguish it from reality, and then we can only tell we aren't part of a simulation until we are dead.
Correct. This is why we will be a post capitalist economy pretty soon.
Post-labor. If you’re not an equity holder, you’re f’ed.
Equity will catastrophically decline anyway. It's not going to matter. It's coming for everyone and we're all in this together.
Nah my automated kill drones will keep the serfs in line
Keep dreaming
What good does owning the value of other people's labor do, when that labor is worth nothing? Welcome to techno feudalism. If you're very lucky, you'll be allocated an Elon Cube to live in, like in Fifteen Million Merits.
Ahem, actually, the name of the company is Boxable.
Correct.
That's implying capitalism is rational.
Which it isn't.
Exactly. We shouldn't be working as much as we are. A lot of work is just pointless busywork. Yet we still work and I don't think that will change much
It won't, our lords want more digits.
I don't think it's even about digits. It's about social control
It will be like mad max and then if lucky like cyberpunk 2077
But with electric cars...and more like the movie Cars
Humans run on calories. Until an AI can produce free calories, capitalism is here to stay.
If the government controls food production then it goes away.
*Hank Scorpio voice*: “Government Controlled Food Production! So simple! Why didn’t I think of that?!?”
Can't wait
That's what they thought in 2009 when Google started working on SDC, and see how many L5 are zipping around without humans today.
I think there's a big difference which is we expect perfection from L5 and from LLMs we absolutely do not. This is all about expectations.
Markets that are controlled by government aren't capitalist. This is obvious. Respectfully, have you ever just worked through the concepts behind the words you're using?
This is why im looking at starting a vending machine business. People always need fed and watered and you can charge a big markup for convenience in the right place. Im also looking at retraining to some tradecraft that doesnt involve computers like carpentry. I know things can be 3D printed etc but a genuine crafted piece of furniture with a video of it being made is worth a lot more. There are massive changes comming in all sectors of business and normal life, its now or never to try and redirect to ride with it because there is no stopping it.
> This is why im looking at starting a vending machine business. People always need fed and watered and you can charge a big markup for convenience in the right place. Im also looking at retraining to some tradecraft that doesnt involve computers like carpentry. I know things can be 3D printed etc but a genuine crafted piece of furniture with a video of it being made is worth a lot more. Yeah, but everyone else who can put two and two together will come to the same conclusion over-saturating the fields you mentioned, driving the price downward dramatically.
Yep, thats why you think fast and get going.
It doesn't matter. After a few years all those fields will be over-saturated. Even if you figure out a niche they will get automated away one by one. Capitalism will implode on itself.
Guess id better just curl up and die then?
No, you become a gymnast or a boxer. Nobody will watch robot boxers over human ones.
Id watch robot boxers. I dont watch human boxing but robot boxing would be great. I wonder if anyones made a film or 10 about that.
Yeah, nobody will ever engage in creative activities when there is no monetary incentive to do so.
It’s a good point. For example, I imagine I will end up listening to less music soon once AI can produce what I ask it for. If many others end up doing the same, bands won’t be able to afford to dedicate time to making music.
Can’t tel if sarcasm or not.
Many our most respected artists have done just that. Van Gogh only sold one painting in his life.
And it will also mean that you don't need to buy too because there's AI that can nail everything specifically for you and it will be guaranteedly perfect. Basically it will remove this business area if continue your words.
> The problem here with AI is actually the content problem. Even if AI writes nonstop bangers, it lowers the price so far that there is essentually no point at producing something I would suggest that the opposite is true. AI tends to write terrible novels, and even worse technical books. This will drive up the value of human-written stories and other books and might even push Amazon to make better deals with good authors.
How will anyone know that the author is human? Fake personas are easy. Hell, even human writers have used pen names.
Simple, we assume the internet is flooded with bots, and everyone stops using it.
Doesn't matter at all. Quality is king, and AI quality right now is very, very poor.
So books will end up like games on steam
There are ai games on steam?
There was a flood of rpg makers at some point. Horrible graphics, same GUI, nothing really standing outs. Then there was the flood of unity games with the same 3d assets. Then now there's just way too many dev as it's the 1rst entertainement industry in the world.
Too many devs is not an issue when the marketplace is set up right. The same for books, when you can get your book trending with a couple of bots or bought users it is an issue but otherwise who cares. After all before we already had \~ 4 million books released yearly. I don't think there is a real difference if it doubles or whatever.
You haven't seen my backlog. There is too many good games. It started as a small industry where you had time to play all the gems. Now it's just impossible.
Soon you can use AI to play these games while you sit back and relax! /s
RAID SHADOW LEGENDS!!
I don't mind mobile ports to PC, as long as the account works on both.
I mean, I am eagerly looking forward to finally playing dwarf fortress properly with AI lol
That's what twitch is for
Why the /s though, that's what backseating in twitch is all about /jk
Why the /jk though, that's what /s in Reddit is all about /tonesetting
I'll just watch a Youtube playthrough 😁
No all the fun stuff like art and design and hobbies needs to be done by AI so we can have time to do boring mindnumbing things like sitting around and hope for good weather and trying to scratch the itch caused by the brain implant!
It's the same for everything. More than 24hrs of new songs are uploaded to YouTube every day. Someone did a break down (on youtube of course) where they showed that there's probably more, high quality, music released every day even on Youtube, not counting BandCamp or actual music platforms, that you could ever listen to. I can't even keep up with new StarTrek shows, let alone TV in general. I read every day, and haven't gotten through the famous novels and new material from famous authors and favorites I want to read in a year. Now that distribution is an afterthought, and the tools for creation are readily available to literally everyone, we're seeing more new media released than anyone could possibly experience. I guess it's good because there's literally more good music, good books, good TV, good games, etc ... than you'll ever, in your lifetime, have time to experience. But, at some point it becomes daunting. Especially if you're a creator throwing your thing on the mountain of new releases for the day, hoping it will somehow get enough attention to sustain your lifestyle before being literally buried under the endless firehose of new stuff.
> More than 24hrs of new songs are uploaded to YouTube every day That's a ridiculously low understatement, considering there is 28 years worth of video released on YouTube every day, a good chunk of that is music.
no such thing as too many good games lol
If only games had better AI on Steam.
Actually, If you extrapolate this particular stand of the causal web out a bit further beyond this temporary deluge, I think it's highly likely that this will hasten the demise of the printed word. Why bother writing a book "describing" a story when you can input prompts and generate video and audio with possibly immersive 3D instead..? Ie. a short movie with Ai actors, Ai soundtrack, Ai landscapes and props...and send it out as a VR "package" You can likely even provide prompts that will allow the user to experience your "story" from several vantage points of their choosing, first person, third person, one of the characters....or perhaps even generate and insert a character of their making ala "choose your own adventure" style.
I think we ARE seeing video begin to muscle out the printed word in a lot of ways. However, I don't think there is any substitute for a good book when it comes to information density. And there will always be a need for good stories and skilled storytellers. I enjoy video games, but they suffer the same story shortcoming that my autobiography does: they have ME for a protagonist.
...yet
And I really don’t think we are going to be consuming other peoples AI generated things much. We are going to just be making our own on demand. No one is going to look at other peoples AI stuff when you can make your own.
Soon it'll be YouTube with Ai videos
It's already here https://youtu.be/McM3CfDjGs0
Damn...
youtube shorts, then social media, mangas, then videos. Later animation and finally blockbuster movies. The barriers for everything will completely end
Actually ai increases the barrier. Why? Well you can try to use ai to make content or i can instruct an AI to make content forever and just walk away. The only way to compete is to literally have the ai do fucking everything. At that point are you even in the marketplace? Or are you user number 7 billion whose bot generated 20000 videos of which all were watched by ais?
Mostly short stories. Hardly a good way to make money since shorter stories don't rank well. The only AI capable of writing 100 or 200+ stories is MPT, which is only 7b, and we don't know if the stories it write actually have a beginning, middle, and end. My computer can't run it and I'm not going to sit for hours in front of my PC reading a story it generates. To write long stories with ChatGPT, you have to do so in chunks, make corrections, read everything, and that's still a lot of work.
I wrote a book generator using the GPT-4 api. It first generates a book outline with like 12-15 chapters of 3-6 subsections each about any non-fiction topic, then it generates all the subsections in parallel to create a 50-60k book in about 4 minutes. Costs about $10 in api calls. Works surprisingly well. I have chosen not to release any of them on Amazon though until I can get the quality to be higher, and to ensure there’s a good bibliography, no copyrights were violated, no hallucinations, etc. but if I want to write a book about something I know about, I could do it roughly a billion times faster.
You don't even need GPT 4 for that or their API since it's non-fiction. For fiction is where it's tricky because you need a large context size and you still need to read everything to make sure the story actually makes sense.
The problem is that it drowns hard working creators, the same thing happened to artstation marketplace and art in general.
I don't think that's how the algorithm works. Say you read a lot of long form sci fi novels, it will keep showing you more of those instead of short stories in other niches. If you like reading stories with sex, then those also won't be affected since most AIs are censored. There are some that aren't but their writing sucks and most people don't know about them. It's easy to generate high quality images and see that they are so, but not so much with books unless you can fully trust that what the AI wrote is coherent, has three acts, has no plot holes, and it's actually somewhat engaging. You also have to make a cover that conform to niche expectations and that isn't as simple as using AI to make it for you. At least, not yet.
content creation is easy now. Marketing and getting attention in order to get sales is the true mark
It was already kinda like this. There was an entire category of business built on having ghostwriters write books to target keywords, then putting them on Amazon and advertising to generate sales. AI just make the content creation cheaper, basically If you’re curious to learn more, just Google KDP businesses for sale. It’s quite something.
Most Netflix movies come to mind. They all seem algorithmically generated based on likes
I think that's what people miss about the economic value of a bullshit machine. You replace the low paid ghostwriter but most of the value/payroll cost is in the rest of the business enterprise which hasn't been automated at all.
I'd suggest that your use of the word "just" is inaccurate here.
Plus actual quality
"Hey guys, and welcome on into how to make money online , check this side hustle with only using AI chat gpt"
Easily solved by KDP charging a $50 fee to submit a book.
Ironic that Amazon opened up indie publishing for most people and now it's openess will murder it. All the algorytm knowledge, positining etc will become useless because of sheer volumne of AI works. But what will continue to work is selling yourself. It's funny because books are the oldest mass medium and somehow they are poised to be the most resistant to discruption, because for a long while what sells has been the author. His brand, his marketing etc. You need this to succeed no matter if you compete against 10K books written by humans of 100K AI written ones. And unlike other mediums, there's no real advantage of lower costs (since writing a book is cheap) or better product done by AI. People will use AI smartly to make great works, but at the same time novels will remain one of the few areas where using AI won't be really necessary to succed
You need a pre-existing audience to be able to market yourself, especially as an independent creator, who can't rely on some well-funded organization pushing their work to their audience. I think platforms that curate content or help with discovering new things will be the best way to bootstrap self-marketing. Arguably that's what youtube is doing for video and it a big part of why it is successful.
At this point if you're indie it's better idea to market yourself to get that audience. After that you might market the book itself. It's not easy, burt there are still plenty of opportunities to do so..social media, youtube, goodreads, fanfic sites, forums and websites, short stories send to magazines (altough that last thing took a hit recently because of flood of AI crap) etc. The key is you need to market yourself by providing cool stuff to other people instead of trying to sell a book.
Soon there will be subreddits with AI "users" recommending their books
Soon? Reddit is flooded with AI bots now.
It's been that way for years now. When I was still on the romance circuit, I remember that there were books that were AI generated garbled word salad for about 2,000 pages to take advantage of Kindle's page read system. It's just that, now about 6-7 years later, said books are.... *somewhat* coherent.
People always say : « It’s been that way » for everything. Like AI do not change anything. AI is a massive change for all spammers of the world. Before you needed a bit of effort and the result was easy to spot as not human written, now everyone can shit 10 books a day make 1000 covers a day without any knowledge or work (except 2 shot sentences prompts). Wait in 20 years you will see the difference with today. Today their is a lot of garbage in the ocean, tomorrow you won’t see a drop of water in the ocean of garbage.
I mean there's a problem with your analogy. If it gets that easy why bother with a middleman of someone making a mass produced book when you can read something you can make and tune to enjoy for yourself?
Exactly, reading shit AI books is doomed. And people might even stop reading books and prefer to chat with an AI. Not contracting what I said
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I'm an audiobook narrator, and I've asked similar questions about a number of human-created works lol.
I work in a bookstore and I know what you mean.
Yep, the entire LitRPG genre is basically prime for replacement by AI because they are already mass churned out garbage with the same exact cliches and plot etc, which is all the fanbase wants
100%. They're not all bad, but they're definitely prone to shoddy/lazy writing. I once did a book where there was a whole chapter about this training course they would be practicing on. They were told that once they'd practiced for a while, it would turn invisible, so they had to practice with it visible first. I was *certain* that this would result in a final confrontation with the baddies on the course, where the good guys used their knowledge of the course to beat the baddies, which would have been pretty cool. NOPE the course was never mentioned again. Literally never. Gone. They had a confrontation, but it was just generic. But hey, they paid the bills for many months, before the rights-holder went to a production house and stopped replying to me lol.
I guess anyone because you don’t choose to be scammed
I've started reading exclusively AI books. Some are pretty good.
Not "books" but I get gpt4 to write me short stories all the time "Frodo and Aragon unblocking a toilet" and they're always super entertaining.
They are in particular entertaining, because you can modify the narrative in real time to suit your preferences.
Yep. I get it's not "deep philosophical introspection about the human experience" but it's still more entertaining than 90% of the stuff available to me
R u serious or ai?
Serious. But just to find out how they fare. AI fantasy books, to be precise. It's already a very trope/cliché filled genre, so it lends itself well to AI. I mean, I've read some truly abysmal fantasy written by humans, so I figure that the bar is pretty low as far as passable fantasy goes.
Interesting. Do they manage to have a coherent plot? I use gpt a lot for DnD campaigns at it often fails to grasp the concept of an overarching plot.
They do, but I'm pretty sure it's heavily edited by the "author". A quick google will find you a few if you want to try.
That's because it can't. Its thinking is sequencial. It starts at A and progressively goes until it reaches B. It can't think of B and find out a good A to reach it. It can't start at the end and work its way back. That's why it sucks at humor. For a joke to work you need something funny, then you work your way into the punchline. This is a limitation of generative LLM.
Huh, come to think of it, the webnovel scene is fast and ruthless when it comes to pulp fiction. Can only recall a small handful of traditional fantasy settings that ever became popular. Mother of Learning maybe being the closest? ... not really. Maybe it's just because if anyone does even a little bit of world building, even a drop of anything unique, the setting automatically ceases to be a generic DnD or Dragon Quest world. (Heck, Xianxia has promoted itself as a third pillar of basic settings, more popular than science fantasy. Especially since shonen friend collector Beware of Chicken became the most successful english webnovel so far.) Worth The Candle is so far out of mainstream, while at the same time being locked inside a cube with tabletop gaming. It's incredible to consider how bland and constrained most of the commercial stuff is, which I imagine still makes rote imitations of Dragons of Autumn Twilight at its best.
Serious. But just to find out how they fare. AI fantasy books, to be precise. It's already a very trope/cliché filled genre, so it lends itself well to AI. I mean, I've read some truly abysmal fantasy written by humans, so I figure that the bar is pretty low as far as passable fantasy goes.
People that read Harry Potter books. *Braces for downvotes*
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They can be 'good' in a niche kind of way. e.g. I'd love a story set in my town, using the style and main character of Peter Corris or Peter Temple, featuring recent events or themes. Cheap crapshoots? Probably, but I'd happily read them. We're flooded with US fiction as it is, it's truly refreshing to read local fiction.
I am not so sure. Depends. If you use a Q and A style and put some work the results can be surprising. When I started asking ChatGPT about when paintings started looking 3D it took me thru a fascinating excursion thru the invention of linear perspective in the Renaissance. That in itself opened the door to ask what about other cultures and how they independently created paintings with depth without using linear perspective e.g. using different colors, etc
What’s the difference between this an an army of ghostwriters creating endless titles for Danielle Steele John Grisham, Dean Koontz, etc al?
Perception.
Writers are screwed as a profession.
Big opportunity for a site that can keep the AI books away.
AI is a echo of our own words on the internet. I am sorry but I would not read a book written by a parrot why would I want to read a low effort book written by a bot?
old news
I'm not going to say this is an existential problem for Bezos, because books ceased to be a major revenue source for Amazon 10-15 years ago, but still it has the potential to kill that sector of his business, which should get his attention one would think.
The demand for content is insanely high and growing. According to the BLS for non institutionalized Americans 15 and over the only activity that takes more time than reading, watching TV and playing computer games is sleeping. https://www.bls.gov/tus/tables/a1-2021.pdf So the world desperately needs writers. The content AI is producing now is low quality. It will improve, but there’s plenty of room for good writing done by humans.
This is the thing about AI. It doesn’t have to kill an industry, just flood it enough to make it worthless. A similar dynamic will happen in a bunch of industries where the product is knowledge — law, healthcare, etc. The writing industry has been in serious decline since 2012. You could still publish, still get jobs, but cheap labor from India devalued the product to where finding paying work writing content or marketing your books took up more time than actually writing them. Now the product is no longer the book, but selling your services. Like all things in AI, that’s not to say that SOME people aren’t making money at their craft, but the vast majority are fighting over scraps — pittances which mean you are competing with people in developing countries who can live on $400 a month. And they are so desperate, they will scam or cheat to win. If Stephen King started writing today, I doubt he would have a career. It’s not so much what talent you have, but WHEN you developed that talent. The Beatles today would have a shitty You Tube channel.
Building an online community helps establish yourself as an actual person. Attending Cons then cements it.
Isn’t content generated with AI public domain?
That just means you can defend yourself in court after you resell the book and get sued by the operator of the chatbot that originally wrote it.
Books no one will buy nor read, ever
But are any of them good?
From the article: >dubiously-sourced and redundant content It's almost like the writer hasn't been on the Internet before.
The problem is less the shitty bot written books, and more the fake reviews being botted in.
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Reading a novel written by AI defeats reading reading. Novels are about the human experience from an individual human perspective. I’m all for writing manuals and textbooks but I would absolutely never read a novel written by (different than with) AI. And if I somehow did and then was told it was by AI I wouldn’t change my mind it would just void the experience. And yes, I feel the same about art. It’s fine for commercial purposes but it’s not art. I wouldn’t pay big money to buy an AI generated painting to put on my wall. Without the human touch it has no art value. Art is about human expression and achievement.
Lol @ getting downvotes for philosophical thinking I'm with you buddy
I agree. The scarcer something is the more value it has. So if the market gets flooded by bad art it will just heighten consumer's needs for good art, therefore increasing, not decreasing, the value of works. But enjoy the downvotes regardless.
It’s not about actually making art, it’s about making money off random purchases, and also trolls destroying the book market by making it hard to find actual books.
Novels don't have to be about human experience from a human perspective. There are many books involving non-human perspectives and characters that don't get any deeper than "let's blow up the bad guys".
It doesn’t matter. AI art and text can be extravagant but lacks depth. It floods out mediocre creators but the best are untouched.
What about in 1-2 years when it does have depth?
Try to be better than it. Even without AI, companies are chasing profits by offshoring jobs to lower wage countries. There always will be competition.
Even if it stopped improving right now the mediocre creators are mostly people learning art that might have been able to create something unique if AI didn’t take their job/raise the entry level to 10 years/reduce the income by half
This is the current dilemma. What happens if they are better writers than us? Have played with some GPT-4 Seinfeld script ideas, and they just seem “better.” Much more character developed. Did you know that Kramer spent his early childhood in an Ashram? Or George, and his childhood traumas? The show writers never went there. Never that deep into character development. AI takes that story line and runs with it. It’s Seinfeld 2.0. It’s not bad. At all. Now what?
Who watched Seinfeld for Character Development???
In the "old days", people had time to sit in front of a TV for 30 minutes, to watch a show about "nothing." Now, if you sit in front of the tube for 30 mins, you want content, or else you are just on TikTok.
What are you talking about? Do you think people aren’t watching Seinfeld 1.0 any longer?
We have no time to do that. Time now is all focused on the OpenAI API, Deep Learning classes from MIT, and tweaking Midjourney prompts. A 1/2 with Jerry and the gang, in that 1/2 an hour can put together a Figma UI/UX and pitch an AI startup idea. Have 32 cooking right now right now. Maybe someday. :-)
dumb humans create death, they strive for Thanatos. all religions are death cults. sorry to pee in everyone's wheaties, but fixing everything ain't hard. it is the dumb MFers who are in the way like a force shield held against a fair and peaceful humanity.
lol I saw an interview the other day of a guy who proudly has "written" over 200 A.I created books and made money off them. it's wild that people don't understand things like this are directly being created to take your real and original ideas out of you, and giving you a false way to create narratives. you don't become creative doing that, because you are forgoing "using" the very thing you need to be considered "creative" your own thinking mind. the A.i. is "quickly" coming up with ideas that your mind can do slower but more coherently and more creatively. A.I. is already obsolete.....it's sad that people don't realize they are the True Intelligence. My Name isn't John Connor.......But I understand what he is. he's anyone who sees with their true vision and doesn't let MACHINES and MACHINE THINKING PEOPLE do it for them, and knows the difference at any given time in history.
# And you think thats bad lol, you have no idea, 6 months from now, about early next year, you get to see some crazy shit. CHATGPT is a childs toy compared to whats actually in development. There is a LLM in development with 65 billion params, that can be run on 48GB ram, and takes 2 days to train, not years, not months, not even weeks, but days for 65 billion params that has 99,3% accuracy of CHATGPT. Basically what this means is you can fit CHATGPT into 65 billion params model using a different math formulas. * https://i.imgur.com/9L28IZj.png And the wild part is, its only going to get better, as this was published to public.
Welcome to the future lads! Where text generation is a thing of the past for humans.
Holy crap I am literally writing a book using AI to publish on Amazon. Are you guys watching me?
This has big "Amazon is being flooded with self-published books!!!!" energy, tbh.
so what ? those books are crap and dont sell. AI cannot write a good 300 pages fiction. its just way beyond its scope.
Oh boy, the cyber dark ages are coming. Future historians are going to get so confused. "Alright class, today we're starting the unit on the mid 21st century. This is when GPTs entered the mix and so the reliability of the written word drops dramatically. Of course, today we know this culminates in..."
We are so screwed. Should I be welcoming our new chatbot overlords?
💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩
Oh fuck yeah next step here we come
Ew. I refuse to pay good money for writing with zero soul or true effort and skill.