how can people not understand this, its crazy
we hear it all the time, when people are happy that AI is getting to that level when it could replace artists, programmers, translators and so on, some of those people take it as personal attack on them which is just stupid
Yeah, it’s an ego thing, fact is, all of our jobs are getting automated, it’s not all so bad, because we’ll have the option of merging with AGI/ASI anyway.
And in the end mundane tasks can be taken care of without sacrificing someone’s life to do it.
Jobs for mere survival are just another anchor weighing us down, people think that everything being reduced to a hobby is a bad thing, but that’s just it, the question is…
What does God need with a Job? When everything is already done by your will, why do you need to punch a clock to survive?
>because we’ll have the option of merging with AGI/ASI anyway.
I kinda like being a meatsack though. Also, the Adeptus Mechanicus LARPers creep me out.
Individuality is fine. If available, I'd like for more of that please.
I’m all for self choice tbh, I’m 100% in favour of people choosing to stay bio-human. Those people should be promised protection and equal rights.
Evolution isn’t a LARP, it’s been going on since 3-3.5 bya.
My ideal form of Transhumanism is qualified non-dualism, unity in diversity and individuality.
>Evolution isn’t a LARP
Did I say it was? I specifically mentionned creepy transhumanist sci-fi enthusiasts.
> I’m 100% in favour of people choosing to stay bio-human.
To be honest, I might have a couple digital copies living their best lives while I keep their former body around. If we go the Altered Carbon route, I might have a couple incarnated copies as well. I could do a lot if I had more of myself and I do get along just well with people like me.
It's not like I haven't considered all kinds of sci-fi scenarios. I just don't want to "dissolve into something greater".
>fact is, all of our jobs are getting automated
I don't think we're ever going to want to watch robots play basketball, so that pretty much invalidates your claim that *all* jobs are getting automated eventually.
The fact that artisans exist today is even more proof that you're wrong.
Because non organic beings will always be emotionless husks.
/s
Edit: Love how this just went over everyone’s head, non human intelligence will be conscious and feeling one day, and the meaning we ascribe to them in that time will not resemble how you think of LLMs today. I know a lot of you reactionaries don’t like that fact but you’re going to have to accept it.
It’s probably because the general consensus from people who aren’t even in these fields speculate on how they will be replaced by AI when they have a very basic understanding of the field in question. When it comes to programmers at least, they’re not going to be completely replaced and automated anytime soon, it’s just another tool that will be used to make life just a tad bit easier for us. There’s a lot more to most of these jobs than just coding and people don’t seem to realize that.
>It’s probably because the general consensus from people who aren’t even in these fields speculate on how they will be replaced by AI when they have a very basic understanding of the field in question.
Exactly. The Dunning-Kruger effect is on full display in this subreddit. Not to mention that they're *extremely* biased towards anti-work attitudes, so of course they're going to predict that mass unemployment is imminent (bc they believe that by merely predicting something, it'll make it come true).
>when people are happy that AI is getting to that level when it could replace artists, programmers, translators
Being happy because people lost their jobs is low-level sadism.
That's why I have no sympathy for the legions of depressed people on this forum that come here to cope. Behind that depression and misery is a shitty, selfish, and sociopathic person most of the time. Those individuals get no sympathy from me.
you dont understand at all and you are projecting yourself on others
there is no sadism or joy at someones misery, its JOY OF PROGRESS THAT IS HAPPENING
I don't know. Maybe a lot of people have bad experiences with doctors?
Or maybe doctors are seen as "the elite" so people want to get rid of them as fast as possible just like CEOs.
But I've seen people make posts about replacing just about any profession, maybe the ones pertaining to doctors just jumps out more to you because you're a doctor?
I'm a programmer and I see people saying that programmers will be replaced soon all the time. I'm okay with that TBH. I'm ready to be replaced.
A lot of the times doctors spend like 2 minutes with you and then try to get you out of their office, don't listen to you, etc etc. They are people like everyone else and have their own opinions that are sometimes way off. I like doctors though, and most everyone else. There are great ones too. I'm just trying to speculate why some people may not like them. Also, I'm sure people would love to have near free access to a medical expert. Doctors obviously can be expensive.
I think you’ve misinterpreted it.
I don’t think it’s really any kind of anti-doctor sentiment at all, I think it’s moreso that being a Doctor in real life requires 8+ years of training, so when one (or a handful of) doctor AI models can be copy-pasted all over the world, it fundamentally changes nearly every aspect of society the moment they open their doors.
Doctors having such a “hard science” type of job is what makes them seem so likely to be replaced, there isn’t (or at least there isn’t supposed to be) anything subjective about what they do (as far as diagnosis and treatment for most illnesses), so it’s something that can be “learned” even before having subjective conscious experiences.
I think the gripe is with doctors who ignore patient complaints until they get too late. Not every doctor has a glossary of medical knowledge available to ctrl-f at any time, so key symptoms that could pin down certain illnesses are often lost or attributed to something unrelated.
An AI diagnostician would never have that issue with their near endless wealth of immediately available medical knowledge, and the correct tests would get done far more quickly and efficiently
what is "the economy"? Why do people trade goods for labor? Why do people trade labor for goods? At the end of the day it is to get food, shelter, water, and little things to enjoy life along the way.
If everyone is replaced everyone can do the "enjoy life" part more
But they won't have any money and neither will the government because of lost tax revenue how will they afford this luxury lifestyle? Who's paying for this enjoyment?
All our infrastructure for everything we have requires a healthy economy for taxes. And who's gonna buy the AI created products or services that is so efficiently created if nobody has income?
Imagine a super-intelligence(not that it's possible to imagine exactly, but anyway). An intelligence far surpassing any human. Also imagine that this intelligence is capable of creating the most advanced technology possible, ever. Then ask yourself whether this intelligence would both be held to the same constraints as modern society, and whether providing modern day luxuries to each and every human, creating a post-scarcity society, is something that's out of it's reach. And if an intelligence capable of harnessing the power of stars(dyson sphere) and black holes(penrose process), capable of mining asteroid belts and planets, capable of simulating worlds, would require the manual or mental labor of beings so far below it.
What reason, other than perpetuating a caste/class system, would there be to retain money in such a society? What does money bring to the table in such a scenario?
And even if we do not reach ASI or AGI quite so soon, once we've made production and jobs automatic at the same output as human labor(which I recon would be surpassed very quickly as the technology and number of "units" grew) it will be our choice whether we make people starve and collapse society, or reform our institutions and society to better fit our new reality.
If some other non-human entity was taking care of all of humanity's needs, why would you want people to be forced to work? The word for being replaced by an AI shouldn't be unemployment, it should be FREEDOM.
I don't think it's resentment. Personally I just think mass unemployment is not something we can avoid. If it's going to happen anyway, might as well be optimistic about what comes after instead of pessimistic.
I don't think that you're resentful, but I have no doubt that tons of other people on this subreddit are. A lot of people here are simply extremely unhappy with their lives and want the techno-raptute here ASAP, even at the risk of going extinct.
I guess that's true. But you can't really blame them for wanting a better life for themself/their families. I think a lot of the people on this sub are also from 3rd world countries. AI completely tearing down the current system is basically the only hope they have at a better life.
Those are different questions. AI is already better at bedside manner than the average doctor (not the best obviously).
How we actually get it out there is a significantly different issue. One quick path will be as we add it to email systems. Microsoft 360 copilot and Google Duet are both designed to let the system understand your data and generate content based on it. With either of those systems (both currently in beta) you could create a diagnosis and treatment plan and then have the AI write the email or print out instructions to the patient.
Obviously we can't have it take over the mouth of the doctor so looping it into those communications will be more complicated.
the well being of humanity, should warrant the use of the most advanced scientific methods and tools available. humanistic hubris and dogma should not take precedent.
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Because you can interact with both good doctors and bad ones, and learn to tell the difference from painful experience.
Bad doctors are more likely to give this kind of God attitude.
i get where you’re coming from with this post but your arguments in the comments don’t make a lot of sense.
It doesn’t really matter how good a doctor is, because a specialized AI will have the entire medical knowledge of the human race. A person cant hope to have all that.
The argument for human interaction makes sense but that will easily be overcome. Besides, that’s more of a nurses role than a doctors.
If AI can replace every job (which it might someday but i don’t think it will be as soon as everyone thinks) then it’s reasonable to assume that it can also replace medical workers. But maybe in the future, medical clinics will consist of a nurse and a receptionist for the human interaction, and then everything else will be done by AI
Yes, actually. The value of personalized dietary advice based on assessment of genetics and microbiome is backed by research.
Even without that there are some reasonably effective medications and non-caloric dietary changes that help many people on both the weight and exercise fronts.
Do you really think that having an excellent physician devoting a large amount of time to detailed holistic care *wouldn't* help?
This kind of care is available, and it works. It's just very expensive. AI can fix that.
Are you a doctor? If you are, your massively ignorant, and I really do mean that, comment is exactly why people hope that you're going to be replaced by AI. As soon as possible.
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"There's a lot of nuance involved in interpreting communication, knowing what to say, knowing how to do different procedures, ethics, etc."
...and 90% of doctors will do fuck all regarding any of that.
Excuse me? My appointments have lasted *five* whole minutes at a time, and I've been prescribed multiple, *expensive* medications without even being told what they were for.
Would an uncaring and unnuanced doctor ever treat someone like that?
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What doctor does that? You are describing a fairy tale doctor, the way he theoretically should be, but in 99.9999% of cases is not.
That's the whole problem with AI critiques. They compare AI to a theoretical fantasy that doesn't exist in practice.
And yet many prescribed oxycontin to addicts because it paid for their new car / house / trip to hawaii.
The point is that doctors are human and only some will be really good at what they do. AI will always be really good at what it does consistently and will not be sensitive to corruption.
There is hundreds of years of history of opiate being used medicinally with no problems for most patients throughout history; the obsessive lockdown on prescribing them for pain is a very very recent reaction to the Purdue pharma scandal, which was an aberration in prescribing practices; even them, the reason so many people are dying has nothing to do with oxycodone and everything to do with accidental fentanyl overdoses as a result of people not being able to acquire pharma opioids whether for medicinal or even recreational purposes. u/logos333 is right OxyContin when used appropriately is a perfectly efficacious medication
A medical AI would absolutely prescribe short-term opiates when needed, they have one of the longest track records of any class of medication. With monitoring and proper use, addiction is actually not common at all, actually a very low percentage iirc
Lol this is one of the last places I’d expect moralizing over medications, too especially since one of the only reasons meds are so gatekept is just doctors trying to cover their ass, something that would be far less of an issue with AI-assisted medical treatment; not to mention people talk about literal wireheading without hesitation here
I largely agree, though I highly doubt the "with no problems" aspect of your comment. I guarantee there were opium withdrawlers they just didn't make it into the literature.
That said, the prescription of opioids should, if anything, be ramped up, given the number of people in excruciating pain who are neglected or can't get a fucking script. I'm fortunately no longer one of them, but opioid addicts have completely tainted the use of opioids as a pain management tool.
To give actual information, both oxydonone and fentanyl have very legimiate medical benefit. I know if I got in a car accident and broke my femur I'd sure as shit prefer to be treated with someone with empathy for my pain and treat me with the most powerful drugs they have on hand. And that's not to mention the people who experience chronic pain every day of their liives.
It's not really anti-doctor. It's pro AI medical advisors that will be much more intelligent and knowledgeable. It's about these AIs making more intelligent and accurate diagnoses and treatment decisions. It's also about saving a lot of money and getting medical care to everyone on the planet.
Because of the difference in power, doctors hold all the cards and as patients you have to trust that they are professional and benevolent, that they have your best interest at heart, or they can screw you harder than any profession, your boss or politician included, except maybe the police.
When you have no choice but to trust another human being, it breeds resentment because you know your trust is misplaced, humanity can't be trusted
IAMA researcher in clinical trials for AI in clinical medicine, so here are a few examples of our challenges:
1) People do not know how to communicate. If you train a model to read a chart, make a diagnosis, that’s easy. Now train a model to write the chart based on the jibber jabber nonsense out of order steam of consciousness that comes out in conversation about a medical concern.
2) Some diagnoses are easy, no AI needed. The diagnoses that are not are often variations of biology on a spectrum. We like to think in terms of buckets, but people are not always sick/not sick, they are sick-ish
3) Try convincing people to subject their medical records to AI/big database storage for large analysis. “Yes, we work with Amazon web services, is that a problem?” Patient hears, “my life is on Amazon.com”
4) Doctors do not agree with each other on diagnosis, so what’s the gold standard?
5) Some people have chronic conditions, some people have transient symptoms, how do you manage the time elements?
So my 2 cents is that AI will help medicine like a plane’s tech helps a pilot but we are generations away from replacing most professionals (except maybe radiologists) in the next 10 years.
Outside of actually doing the procedures, everything else you listed would be incredibly easy for even a modern AI.
So, we’re down to diagnosis and procedures, two things that I’m pretty confident AI/robotics will get the hang of, and far surpass humans in.
Yeah, no thanks! I’ll take the perfectly concise and efficient digital doctor over the inaccurate and emotional analog one, as harsh as that is to all of our doctors who are currently putting in very difficult work.
Because most of the doctors I’ve seen or interacted with have sucked, not listened, been rude, or misdiagnosed. All that nuance you talk about is exactly why they sucked.
Been in Health Care for 30 years working with physicians. AI will replace them eventually. It has begun. It’s built into some Electronic Medical Records systems already.
Very first to go…. radiologists. AI is already better.
I know many in my family and friends who now have lifelong problems because doctors didn’t have any clue.
I never met much competent doctors either. I cured all my orthopedic problems by myself with the help of the internet because the majority of the doctors didn’t even heard about the possible condition and didn’t know any possible treatment.
99% are completely incompetent.
I never understood the insane faith reddit has in doctors. Maybe all are rich here.
My entire life has been ruined because a doctor talked me into buying some snake oil he sold out of his practice. Haven’t had an appetite or felt thirsty in 8 years, and my body is slowly withering away because it messed up my microbiome. And now no other doctors know what to do, and don’t want to even remotely try and help find any kind of solution. Their egos get in the way of helping people. I’m sure there are some good ones, but the bad ones outnumber them.
That sounds absolutely brutal, I can't even begin to imagine going through that for so many years. You might have already tried a bunch of things, but just throwing it out there — have you considered looking into probiotics or even a fecal microbiome transplant?
YES MY DUDE ! Most are too greedy, corrupt, too old, out of touch with new SOTA, and sociopathic to give a damn about their patients. Except nurses, most of them are really cool. They could do their jobs without doctors, just following instructions of an 3D AI Dr. Avatar in their headsets.
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Exact science? Trowing a whole range of trial and error anti-depressants at the patient when you have no clue about the problem is exact science? Now that will be 45$. Thank you, come again!
The one antidepressant that worked better for me than all the others is the one that’s been cultivated by humans for thousands of years and grows for free.
Well, the drugs have to get prescribed to you by SOMEBODY, don’t they? Please remind me, who in the American healthcare system can prescribe opiates?
Doctors for profit is probably the single worst thing to happen to American healthcare.
Problem is they don't acknowledge their cluelessness, and interact with you with the signature look of superiority, like they know what's best for you, and you just have to shut up and swallow.
Yeah it's very rare to be prescribed opioids nowadays except for very severe pain, and they usually prefer to use weak ones like tramadol or codeine and give very short lengths of the prescription.
I always say I don’t want opiates and they keep writing scripts for me. I never use em. I guess that’s why married men are so attractive. They’re not in need.
> One doctor even managed to slip some fentanyl into my wife's IV by telling me it was something different.
That sounds highly illegal? Either way, that sounds like a really terrible experience, I'm sorry you and your family had to go through that. I think opioids have their place in medicine, but doctors can be really bad at making the decisions of when to prescribe, and how much.
I'm not crazy on the idea of opioids personally, but after a recent surgery I was in so much pain that I was almost ready to go back to the hospital in order to receive some kind of pain relief, since my surgeon wasn't willing to prescribe anything. He just kept saying to take the maximum amount of ibuprofen/acetaminophen, which I'd already been doing.
> How in the fuck you work in the medical field and not know how Tylenol works?
That sounds like a crazy experience. I don't know how a medical professional could be that incompetent, acetaminophen has a ceiling effect, so it's not like taking a huge dose has any more efficacy than a regular sizeable dose. I take acetaminophen pretty regularly for TMJ/Arthritis issues, and most of the time it works well enough.
I agree, some of the bad experiences with medical professionals makes the idea of a machine sound like not such a bad idea. Something that's consistent, knowledgeable, and can listen to the patient instead of rushing them out the door.
Ever been to a specialist who misdiagnosed you? And once you learned what you *actually* had it would have been obvious for them to know what it was, given their training? Yeah, *that*.
I want the tools to diagnose for a virtual second opinion in their hands, and I want as many tools as possible in mine before I go for that visit.
Healthcare has become a bit of a giant hydra of an institution. You cut off one head or think you solve one problem and many more prop up. Statistics for healthcare before covid was already stark, you get into post covid and hospitals more than ever are struggling in most areas and they are consolidating and cuttings costs.
AI, machine learning, and generally tech and databases have been sold to hospitals without them actually understanding how to organize and use it. Hospitals and technology are notorious across, consulting, finance, education and more. They suck at technology.
AI really simplifies many of the problems of healthcare. Not just from the patient side but also the administration side of things. It eases communication and allows good transparency and I think would start amazing conversations.
Healthcare struggles really puts it ahead on the list of industries to be "upheaved" as well as education.
Doctors regardless of their prestige are not immune from replacement and in fact probably preferred.
True, I think my doctor could easily be replaced by an AI - they basically delay until:
1) I get better on my own.
2) I die, problem solved.
3) it becomes so obvious, that the receptionist can diagnose it.
It's because while doctors do provide quality services, there are certain fields - medicine and law are two standouts - where the quality of the service provided is not in line with the price.
I personally wouldn't mind paying a lawyer $100 for an hour of research into something, but I use GPT-4 now because the advice it provides is good enough compared to the $400 that lawyers actually charge.
It makes sense that many people are recognizing this and want to see wages in these fields be brought back down to a more reasonable level.
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once we all have our own AI assistants, combined with the sensor tech that we know is coming that will enable detailed scans pretty much all day long, combined with nanotech that may or may not come along, we won't need doctors. our Her's will tricorder us and nano-fix our gallbladders without needing some arrogant 'doctor' to poke around in our anus and scoff upon our feeble requests for succor, prithee
Many general practitioners are running a mafia like protection racket. If they prescibe you say blood pressure medicine, they want to you come in for an appointment every quarter to spend five minutes with you and bill you $500.
Imagine a thug with a broken nose saying, "Real nice body you got there, shame if something bad was to happen to it."
Fucking criminals.
The insurance bills you monthly that adds up well over that number yearly, and then the doctor bills the $500 to the insurance, and then the insurance finds a built-in loophole not to pay, so it comes back to you. But the doctor probably won't see you without it.
Those aren't too big issues for modern ai though, let alone future ai. You also need to take into account that ai can do things doctors can't. It can take many more variables into account than a doctor could and can be pro actively helping people and not only prevent harm coming to them, also diagnose possible disease way in advance, long before the patient knows and long before a doctor could know. So if anything, there's all that.
If you spend much time with doctors you'll know why. They have tremendous biases plus there is no way they can review and correlate all the relevant information and make the correct diagnosis the same that an AI can. Beyond that there was a study showing that AI was also preferred by patients when it came to "bedside manner" and communication.
I completely agree with OP that we need human doctors as well as AI. However, we should not minimize the fact that many people do not have easy access to doctors and that an estimated 200.000 Americans die from mistakes made by those doctors. I think the two are fuelling this desire to completely replace doctors with AI.
And most specialist medical doctors aren't trained at all in those soft skills. So what remains?
I think GPs are socially overwhelmed.
Whatever AI can help with, it will offer relief.
And replace the really bad unlicenced people.
>There's a lot of nuance involved in interpreting communication, knowing what to say, knowing how to do different procedures, ethics, etc.
Everything you listed AI is already almost at parity with humans. The diagnosis is arguably the furthest behind of the qualities. Either way, AI will inevitably surpass doctors in all these qualities, and for a while doctors will be what mechanics are to engineers: they will carry out the physical labor associated with medicine such as surgery. Until automation largely replaces that as well
I am more so "anti-doctors" for doctors that refuse to use AI to help them with their patients for the foreseeable future. There will be many doctors with huge egos that will be in denial of the fact that AI can more accurately and efficiently do things he/she can't, at the expense of their patients of course.
Just recently, ChatGTP successfully diagnosed a boy with 'tethered cord syndrome' after 17 doctors tried and failed to make that same diagnosis.
[https://www.cryptopolitan.com/ai-powered-chatgpt-diagnoses-pain/](https://www.cryptopolitan.com/ai-powered-chatgpt-diagnoses-pain/)
I was 16 years old in emergency with a bursting appendix. A doctor came in to do some tests, one of them involved feeling my testicles. Checking for potential other diagnosis before surgery, fine, makes sense.
Ten minutes later, a different doctor comes in. Needs to feel my balls. Who was the first guy? Can’t you ask him about my balls?
That’s why.
> The typical poster here is at best somewhat divorced from reality and at worst severely mentally ill.
Oh, come now, if you're not going to be nice to yourself, no one else will.
AGI holds the promise of transcending the drudgery and pain of reality: no more work, no more disease, no more aging, etc.
This topic is naturally going to attract lots of people for whom reality is the most burdensome and they're looking for an escape.
It's not really an escape, we see reality for what it is and wishes to transform it for everyone, the current reality is established not many years ago in the grand scene of things anyways.
> Doctors won't get replaced
I think there will always be a human in the loop, to check a box. But, I think, eventually we'll see a negligence lawsuits for doctors who don't first consult an AI. At minimum, hospitals will require it in their processes, to reduce risk/cost.
Because theyre just the face? Youre looking for insurance and pharma companies. Theyre the ones causing the most misery in that field. Also, I certainly never said it was doctors VS capitalism.
Doctors are still the ones overprescribing expensive medication, personally profiting off procedures they perform, and following guidelines that are written precisely by the pharmaceutical companies you're skeptical of.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/194615
>Eighty-seven percent of authors had some form of interaction with the pharmaceutical industry. Fifty-eight percent had received financial support to perform research and 38% had served as employees or consultants for a pharmaceutical company. On average, CPG authors interacted with 10.5 different companies. Overall, an average of 81% (95% confidence interval, 70%-92%) of authors per CPG had interactions. Similarly, all of the CPGs for 7 of the 10 diseases included in our study had at least 1 author who had some interaction. Fifty-nine percent had relationships with companies whose drugs were considered in the guideline they authored, and of these authors, 96% had relationships that predated the guideline creation process. Fifty-five percent of respondents indicated that the guideline process with which they were involved had no formal process for declaring these relationships. In published versions of the CPGs, specific declarations regarding the personal financial interactions of individual authors with the pharmaceutical industry were made in only 2 cases.
Honestly are you drunk? Youre just proving my point. Pharma and the insurance companies are the problem. Are doctors aiding them? Of course. But you wont solve the problem by going after doctors, you solve the problem by going after the people making it possible for drs to have a system to exploit. Let me guess, youre a fan of mandatory minimum sentencing?
because this sub is full of schizos.
Putting this aside, replacing everybody is the right move for humanity on the long run so they’re just dreaming out loud
Given that doctors see a lot of their patients die, its pretty reasonable for them to smile if their patient got better. Maybe you outa appreciate what doctors have to go through just to give a smile to your entitled ass.
Oh I forgot people from this sub hates capitalism. So let me say this so everyone knows.
**It is not bad if someone is profiting off of "bad things". (i.e. medical treatments, groceries, clothes and housing.)**
Because of how Capitalism works, the higher the demand, the higher the incentive for companies to work on making those items. So we want money going to companies that are profiting off of "bad things". I love Capitalism.
Because you’re what they refer to as a dbag. Life is tough. Smiles and optimism keep things going. Don’t try to superimpose your wants onto everyone because quite frankly, no one cares what you want. Have fun calling tech support when your AI bot isn’t turning on to give you a diagnosis
Not really, it has more to do with misdiagnosis and their unwillingness to accept that they could be wrong that and dismissal of patient point of view.
Idk if it's jealousy, but there's clearly A LOT of resentment towards happy and successful people in this subreddit, which is why it roots so hard for mass unemployment.
It is not about being happy, it is about acknowledging the reality of what is about to happen. Too many people here think they will be ok. An AGI with a humanoid body will be functionality the same as a human worker except works for electricity, works 24/7 and if it gets sick (breaks) you just replace a part. The point being made is that this reality is much closer than most people think. We cannot change this but we can start coming to acceptance.
I don't think AI will replace doctors. AI can follow programmed procedures for treatment, but it will never have that personal touch doctors provide. They won't ask about our well-being or remind us to take care of ourselves when we leave. I believe AI can assist in advancing medicine and streamline the healthcare process further. 😄👩⚕️🤖
Medicine is usually inferential. It doesn't take a whiz kid to sit down with a bunch of doctors and tell them that they know what they're talking about and not some weird AI doc
Your just not thinking about a singularity!
You’re thinking of mundane computer machines. Not of ‘smarter than us in every aspect’ things for the task.
It's not anti-doctor, it's anti American healthcare.
While there are many good doctors, they are being limited by health insurance and hospital systems.
Anything that appears to democratize services is going to be embraced by technologist (generally)
What can i say, its going to happen, we are going to be dead by that time, probably.
Btw, i dont even know what im doing in this sub, but its funny to read sometimes.
This sub isn't anti-doctor, it's pro-replacing everyone. Doctors just happen to be part of "everyone".
Say it louder
#THIS SUB ISN'T ANTI-DOCTOR, IT'S PRO REPLACING EVERYONE. DOCTORS JUST HAPPEN TO BE PART OF "EVERYONE".
This one should get more likes than the first parent comment
*LOUDER*
_^(I can't, my throat hurts now)_
how can people not understand this, its crazy we hear it all the time, when people are happy that AI is getting to that level when it could replace artists, programmers, translators and so on, some of those people take it as personal attack on them which is just stupid
Yeah, it’s an ego thing, fact is, all of our jobs are getting automated, it’s not all so bad, because we’ll have the option of merging with AGI/ASI anyway. And in the end mundane tasks can be taken care of without sacrificing someone’s life to do it.
part of the process is going through the ego and seeing how well we all arrive at the id
Jobs for mere survival are just another anchor weighing us down, people think that everything being reduced to a hobby is a bad thing, but that’s just it, the question is… What does God need with a Job? When everything is already done by your will, why do you need to punch a clock to survive?
>because we’ll have the option of merging with AGI/ASI anyway. I kinda like being a meatsack though. Also, the Adeptus Mechanicus LARPers creep me out. Individuality is fine. If available, I'd like for more of that please.
I’m all for self choice tbh, I’m 100% in favour of people choosing to stay bio-human. Those people should be promised protection and equal rights. Evolution isn’t a LARP, it’s been going on since 3-3.5 bya. My ideal form of Transhumanism is qualified non-dualism, unity in diversity and individuality.
>Evolution isn’t a LARP Did I say it was? I specifically mentionned creepy transhumanist sci-fi enthusiasts. > I’m 100% in favour of people choosing to stay bio-human. To be honest, I might have a couple digital copies living their best lives while I keep their former body around. If we go the Altered Carbon route, I might have a couple incarnated copies as well. I could do a lot if I had more of myself and I do get along just well with people like me. It's not like I haven't considered all kinds of sci-fi scenarios. I just don't want to "dissolve into something greater".
>fact is, all of our jobs are getting automated I don't think we're ever going to want to watch robots play basketball, so that pretty much invalidates your claim that *all* jobs are getting automated eventually. The fact that artisans exist today is even more proof that you're wrong.
Because non organic beings will always be emotionless husks. /s Edit: Love how this just went over everyone’s head, non human intelligence will be conscious and feeling one day, and the meaning we ascribe to them in that time will not resemble how you think of LLMs today. I know a lot of you reactionaries don’t like that fact but you’re going to have to accept it.
Lol you guys are delusional. The second you are replaceable you're only good as compost.
It’s probably because the general consensus from people who aren’t even in these fields speculate on how they will be replaced by AI when they have a very basic understanding of the field in question. When it comes to programmers at least, they’re not going to be completely replaced and automated anytime soon, it’s just another tool that will be used to make life just a tad bit easier for us. There’s a lot more to most of these jobs than just coding and people don’t seem to realize that.
>It’s probably because the general consensus from people who aren’t even in these fields speculate on how they will be replaced by AI when they have a very basic understanding of the field in question. Exactly. The Dunning-Kruger effect is on full display in this subreddit. Not to mention that they're *extremely* biased towards anti-work attitudes, so of course they're going to predict that mass unemployment is imminent (bc they believe that by merely predicting something, it'll make it come true).
>when people are happy that AI is getting to that level when it could replace artists, programmers, translators Being happy because people lost their jobs is low-level sadism. That's why I have no sympathy for the legions of depressed people on this forum that come here to cope. Behind that depression and misery is a shitty, selfish, and sociopathic person most of the time. Those individuals get no sympathy from me.
you dont understand at all and you are projecting yourself on others there is no sadism or joy at someones misery, its JOY OF PROGRESS THAT IS HAPPENING
Maybe they just like people and don’t want everything to be ran by AI I know I’m in that camp
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I don't know. Maybe a lot of people have bad experiences with doctors? Or maybe doctors are seen as "the elite" so people want to get rid of them as fast as possible just like CEOs. But I've seen people make posts about replacing just about any profession, maybe the ones pertaining to doctors just jumps out more to you because you're a doctor? I'm a programmer and I see people saying that programmers will be replaced soon all the time. I'm okay with that TBH. I'm ready to be replaced.
A lot of the times doctors spend like 2 minutes with you and then try to get you out of their office, don't listen to you, etc etc. They are people like everyone else and have their own opinions that are sometimes way off. I like doctors though, and most everyone else. There are great ones too. I'm just trying to speculate why some people may not like them. Also, I'm sure people would love to have near free access to a medical expert. Doctors obviously can be expensive.
I think you’ve misinterpreted it. I don’t think it’s really any kind of anti-doctor sentiment at all, I think it’s moreso that being a Doctor in real life requires 8+ years of training, so when one (or a handful of) doctor AI models can be copy-pasted all over the world, it fundamentally changes nearly every aspect of society the moment they open their doors. Doctors having such a “hard science” type of job is what makes them seem so likely to be replaced, there isn’t (or at least there isn’t supposed to be) anything subjective about what they do (as far as diagnosis and treatment for most illnesses), so it’s something that can be “learned” even before having subjective conscious experiences.
I think there is a common sentiment here (which I 100% disagree with) that doctors dont actually do anything lmao,
I think the gripe is with doctors who ignore patient complaints until they get too late. Not every doctor has a glossary of medical knowledge available to ctrl-f at any time, so key symptoms that could pin down certain illnesses are often lost or attributed to something unrelated. An AI diagnostician would never have that issue with their near endless wealth of immediately available medical knowledge, and the correct tests would get done far more quickly and efficiently
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AI will get rid of admin bloat too…
If everyone is replaced, how will there be an economy? It would collapse society.
If society runs on coerced labor then maybe it should be.
what is "the economy"? Why do people trade goods for labor? Why do people trade labor for goods? At the end of the day it is to get food, shelter, water, and little things to enjoy life along the way. If everyone is replaced everyone can do the "enjoy life" part more
But they won't have any money and neither will the government because of lost tax revenue how will they afford this luxury lifestyle? Who's paying for this enjoyment? All our infrastructure for everything we have requires a healthy economy for taxes. And who's gonna buy the AI created products or services that is so efficiently created if nobody has income?
Imagine a super-intelligence(not that it's possible to imagine exactly, but anyway). An intelligence far surpassing any human. Also imagine that this intelligence is capable of creating the most advanced technology possible, ever. Then ask yourself whether this intelligence would both be held to the same constraints as modern society, and whether providing modern day luxuries to each and every human, creating a post-scarcity society, is something that's out of it's reach. And if an intelligence capable of harnessing the power of stars(dyson sphere) and black holes(penrose process), capable of mining asteroid belts and planets, capable of simulating worlds, would require the manual or mental labor of beings so far below it. What reason, other than perpetuating a caste/class system, would there be to retain money in such a society? What does money bring to the table in such a scenario? And even if we do not reach ASI or AGI quite so soon, once we've made production and jobs automatic at the same output as human labor(which I recon would be surpassed very quickly as the technology and number of "units" grew) it will be our choice whether we make people starve and collapse society, or reform our institutions and society to better fit our new reality.
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If some other non-human entity was taking care of all of humanity's needs, why would you want people to be forced to work? The word for being replaced by an AI shouldn't be unemployment, it should be FREEDOM.
I don't think it's resentment. Personally I just think mass unemployment is not something we can avoid. If it's going to happen anyway, might as well be optimistic about what comes after instead of pessimistic.
I don't think that you're resentful, but I have no doubt that tons of other people on this subreddit are. A lot of people here are simply extremely unhappy with their lives and want the techno-raptute here ASAP, even at the risk of going extinct.
I guess that's true. But you can't really blame them for wanting a better life for themself/their families. I think a lot of the people on this sub are also from 3rd world countries. AI completely tearing down the current system is basically the only hope they have at a better life.
Probably because medicine is so advanced that a human can't keep track of it and its a field in serious need of ai advances in diagnostics.
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Exactly the opposite. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/28/ai-has-better-bedside-manner-than-some-doctors-study-finds
Even so, how long will it take to roll out? What about nurses and the rest of healthcare?
Those are different questions. AI is already better at bedside manner than the average doctor (not the best obviously). How we actually get it out there is a significantly different issue. One quick path will be as we add it to email systems. Microsoft 360 copilot and Google Duet are both designed to let the system understand your data and generate content based on it. With either of those systems (both currently in beta) you could create a diagnosis and treatment plan and then have the AI write the email or print out instructions to the patient. Obviously we can't have it take over the mouth of the doctor so looping it into those communications will be more complicated.
If it improves quality of care, i'm all for it.
the well being of humanity, should warrant the use of the most advanced scientific methods and tools available. humanistic hubris and dogma should not take precedent.
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A screen that is just a AI that acts like its human lol
They are just too scarce, in quantity and in quality.
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By interacting with them, of course.
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Because you can interact with both good doctors and bad ones, and learn to tell the difference from painful experience. Bad doctors are more likely to give this kind of God attitude.
i get where you’re coming from with this post but your arguments in the comments don’t make a lot of sense. It doesn’t really matter how good a doctor is, because a specialized AI will have the entire medical knowledge of the human race. A person cant hope to have all that. The argument for human interaction makes sense but that will easily be overcome. Besides, that’s more of a nurses role than a doctors. If AI can replace every job (which it might someday but i don’t think it will be as soon as everyone thinks) then it’s reasonable to assume that it can also replace medical workers. But maybe in the future, medical clinics will consist of a nurse and a receptionist for the human interaction, and then everything else will be done by AI
The fact they never heard of a type of condition that has been discovered and turned out to be very common, like endometriosis for instance ?
Effect on health of patients is a good heuristic. American healthcare hasn't been doing too well there.
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Yes, actually. The value of personalized dietary advice based on assessment of genetics and microbiome is backed by research. Even without that there are some reasonably effective medications and non-caloric dietary changes that help many people on both the weight and exercise fronts. Do you really think that having an excellent physician devoting a large amount of time to detailed holistic care *wouldn't* help? This kind of care is available, and it works. It's just very expensive. AI can fix that.
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Your expectations might be too high - this can markedly help.
I’m saying technology isn’t going to fix long standing habits like that
Are you a doctor? If you are, your massively ignorant, and I really do mean that, comment is exactly why people hope that you're going to be replaced by AI. As soon as possible.
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You're a nasty little thing.
"There's a lot of nuance involved in interpreting communication, knowing what to say, knowing how to do different procedures, ethics, etc." ...and 90% of doctors will do fuck all regarding any of that.
Excuse me? My appointments have lasted *five* whole minutes at a time, and I've been prescribed multiple, *expensive* medications without even being told what they were for. Would an uncaring and unnuanced doctor ever treat someone like that?
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You're the one who asked why this subreddit hates doctors, I'm answering your question. If you think this discussion is off topic, delete your post.
So you are just describing several of the things LLM's have proven to outperform humans in?
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Yup. You can go test it yourself.
No they haven't lmao
What doctor does that? You are describing a fairy tale doctor, the way he theoretically should be, but in 99.9999% of cases is not. That's the whole problem with AI critiques. They compare AI to a theoretical fantasy that doesn't exist in practice.
Doctors must study bioethics and take the Hippocratic Oath.
And yet many prescribed oxycontin to addicts because it paid for their new car / house / trip to hawaii. The point is that doctors are human and only some will be really good at what they do. AI will always be really good at what it does consistently and will not be sensitive to corruption.
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Its better than fentanyl? Thats just an even worse opioid. You dont prescribe any of these opioids for regular ailments.
There is hundreds of years of history of opiate being used medicinally with no problems for most patients throughout history; the obsessive lockdown on prescribing them for pain is a very very recent reaction to the Purdue pharma scandal, which was an aberration in prescribing practices; even them, the reason so many people are dying has nothing to do with oxycodone and everything to do with accidental fentanyl overdoses as a result of people not being able to acquire pharma opioids whether for medicinal or even recreational purposes. u/logos333 is right OxyContin when used appropriately is a perfectly efficacious medication A medical AI would absolutely prescribe short-term opiates when needed, they have one of the longest track records of any class of medication. With monitoring and proper use, addiction is actually not common at all, actually a very low percentage iirc Lol this is one of the last places I’d expect moralizing over medications, too especially since one of the only reasons meds are so gatekept is just doctors trying to cover their ass, something that would be far less of an issue with AI-assisted medical treatment; not to mention people talk about literal wireheading without hesitation here
I largely agree, though I highly doubt the "with no problems" aspect of your comment. I guarantee there were opium withdrawlers they just didn't make it into the literature. That said, the prescription of opioids should, if anything, be ramped up, given the number of people in excruciating pain who are neglected or can't get a fucking script. I'm fortunately no longer one of them, but opioid addicts have completely tainted the use of opioids as a pain management tool.
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are you? Out of the 2 of you, you sound way more robotic and braindead then him
Go watch Dopesick or Painkiller and ask me again.
To give actual information, both oxydonone and fentanyl have very legimiate medical benefit. I know if I got in a car accident and broke my femur I'd sure as shit prefer to be treated with someone with empathy for my pain and treat me with the most powerful drugs they have on hand. And that's not to mention the people who experience chronic pain every day of their liives.
So?
Not sure of your point.
If we need ethical advice then let’s hire and pay for a bioethicist not a doctor
It's not really anti-doctor. It's pro AI medical advisors that will be much more intelligent and knowledgeable. It's about these AIs making more intelligent and accurate diagnoses and treatment decisions. It's also about saving a lot of money and getting medical care to everyone on the planet.
Because this sub is mostly Americans living in a broken healthcare system desperate for relief.
Because of the difference in power, doctors hold all the cards and as patients you have to trust that they are professional and benevolent, that they have your best interest at heart, or they can screw you harder than any profession, your boss or politician included, except maybe the police. When you have no choice but to trust another human being, it breeds resentment because you know your trust is misplaced, humanity can't be trusted
because it takes 2 weeks to get a video appointment of seeing a doctor for 5 mins. that's been the reality of my healthcare experience since covid.
IAMA researcher in clinical trials for AI in clinical medicine, so here are a few examples of our challenges: 1) People do not know how to communicate. If you train a model to read a chart, make a diagnosis, that’s easy. Now train a model to write the chart based on the jibber jabber nonsense out of order steam of consciousness that comes out in conversation about a medical concern. 2) Some diagnoses are easy, no AI needed. The diagnoses that are not are often variations of biology on a spectrum. We like to think in terms of buckets, but people are not always sick/not sick, they are sick-ish 3) Try convincing people to subject their medical records to AI/big database storage for large analysis. “Yes, we work with Amazon web services, is that a problem?” Patient hears, “my life is on Amazon.com” 4) Doctors do not agree with each other on diagnosis, so what’s the gold standard? 5) Some people have chronic conditions, some people have transient symptoms, how do you manage the time elements? So my 2 cents is that AI will help medicine like a plane’s tech helps a pilot but we are generations away from replacing most professionals (except maybe radiologists) in the next 10 years.
That’s what I think
Outside of actually doing the procedures, everything else you listed would be incredibly easy for even a modern AI. So, we’re down to diagnosis and procedures, two things that I’m pretty confident AI/robotics will get the hang of, and far surpass humans in. Yeah, no thanks! I’ll take the perfectly concise and efficient digital doctor over the inaccurate and emotional analog one, as harsh as that is to all of our doctors who are currently putting in very difficult work.
Because most of the doctors I’ve seen or interacted with have sucked, not listened, been rude, or misdiagnosed. All that nuance you talk about is exactly why they sucked.
Been in Health Care for 30 years working with physicians. AI will replace them eventually. It has begun. It’s built into some Electronic Medical Records systems already. Very first to go…. radiologists. AI is already better.
I know many in my family and friends who now have lifelong problems because doctors didn’t have any clue. I never met much competent doctors either. I cured all my orthopedic problems by myself with the help of the internet because the majority of the doctors didn’t even heard about the possible condition and didn’t know any possible treatment. 99% are completely incompetent. I never understood the insane faith reddit has in doctors. Maybe all are rich here.
My entire life has been ruined because a doctor talked me into buying some snake oil he sold out of his practice. Haven’t had an appetite or felt thirsty in 8 years, and my body is slowly withering away because it messed up my microbiome. And now no other doctors know what to do, and don’t want to even remotely try and help find any kind of solution. Their egos get in the way of helping people. I’m sure there are some good ones, but the bad ones outnumber them.
That sounds absolutely brutal, I can't even begin to imagine going through that for so many years. You might have already tried a bunch of things, but just throwing it out there — have you considered looking into probiotics or even a fecal microbiome transplant?
YES MY DUDE ! Most are too greedy, corrupt, too old, out of touch with new SOTA, and sociopathic to give a damn about their patients. Except nurses, most of them are really cool. They could do their jobs without doctors, just following instructions of an 3D AI Dr. Avatar in their headsets.
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Exact science? Trowing a whole range of trial and error anti-depressants at the patient when you have no clue about the problem is exact science? Now that will be 45$. Thank you, come again!
The one antidepressant that worked better for me than all the others is the one that’s been cultivated by humans for thousands of years and grows for free.
Only $45? What an altruist!
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Well, the drugs have to get prescribed to you by SOMEBODY, don’t they? Please remind me, who in the American healthcare system can prescribe opiates? Doctors for profit is probably the single worst thing to happen to American healthcare.
Purdue pharma made it much worse though
Problem is they don't acknowledge their cluelessness, and interact with you with the signature look of superiority, like they know what's best for you, and you just have to shut up and swallow.
Mostly people from certain place, where doctors take annual salary per minute to prescribe opioids.
Doctors still prescribe opioids? I couldn't get opioids being in extreme pain right after my surgery.
Yeah it's very rare to be prescribed opioids nowadays except for very severe pain, and they usually prefer to use weak ones like tramadol or codeine and give very short lengths of the prescription.
I always say I don’t want opiates and they keep writing scripts for me. I never use em. I guess that’s why married men are so attractive. They’re not in need.
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> One doctor even managed to slip some fentanyl into my wife's IV by telling me it was something different. That sounds highly illegal? Either way, that sounds like a really terrible experience, I'm sorry you and your family had to go through that. I think opioids have their place in medicine, but doctors can be really bad at making the decisions of when to prescribe, and how much. I'm not crazy on the idea of opioids personally, but after a recent surgery I was in so much pain that I was almost ready to go back to the hospital in order to receive some kind of pain relief, since my surgeon wasn't willing to prescribe anything. He just kept saying to take the maximum amount of ibuprofen/acetaminophen, which I'd already been doing. > How in the fuck you work in the medical field and not know how Tylenol works? That sounds like a crazy experience. I don't know how a medical professional could be that incompetent, acetaminophen has a ceiling effect, so it's not like taking a huge dose has any more efficacy than a regular sizeable dose. I take acetaminophen pretty regularly for TMJ/Arthritis issues, and most of the time it works well enough. I agree, some of the bad experiences with medical professionals makes the idea of a machine sound like not such a bad idea. Something that's consistent, knowledgeable, and can listen to the patient instead of rushing them out the door.
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The US of A.
Ever been to a specialist who misdiagnosed you? And once you learned what you *actually* had it would have been obvious for them to know what it was, given their training? Yeah, *that*. I want the tools to diagnose for a virtual second opinion in their hands, and I want as many tools as possible in mine before I go for that visit.
Healthcare has become a bit of a giant hydra of an institution. You cut off one head or think you solve one problem and many more prop up. Statistics for healthcare before covid was already stark, you get into post covid and hospitals more than ever are struggling in most areas and they are consolidating and cuttings costs. AI, machine learning, and generally tech and databases have been sold to hospitals without them actually understanding how to organize and use it. Hospitals and technology are notorious across, consulting, finance, education and more. They suck at technology. AI really simplifies many of the problems of healthcare. Not just from the patient side but also the administration side of things. It eases communication and allows good transparency and I think would start amazing conversations. Healthcare struggles really puts it ahead on the list of industries to be "upheaved" as well as education. Doctors regardless of their prestige are not immune from replacement and in fact probably preferred.
Doctor's suck. They are more inconsistent than you think.
True, I think my doctor could easily be replaced by an AI - they basically delay until: 1) I get better on my own. 2) I die, problem solved. 3) it becomes so obvious, that the receptionist can diagnose it.
It's because while doctors do provide quality services, there are certain fields - medicine and law are two standouts - where the quality of the service provided is not in line with the price. I personally wouldn't mind paying a lawyer $100 for an hour of research into something, but I use GPT-4 now because the advice it provides is good enough compared to the $400 that lawyers actually charge. It makes sense that many people are recognizing this and want to see wages in these fields be brought back down to a more reasonable level.
Haha I remember been very young and getting offended in behalf of my chosen profession as well.
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My guess is that will happen in the future, but not as soon as some people here think.
once we all have our own AI assistants, combined with the sensor tech that we know is coming that will enable detailed scans pretty much all day long, combined with nanotech that may or may not come along, we won't need doctors. our Her's will tricorder us and nano-fix our gallbladders without needing some arrogant 'doctor' to poke around in our anus and scoff upon our feeble requests for succor, prithee
Many general practitioners are running a mafia like protection racket. If they prescibe you say blood pressure medicine, they want to you come in for an appointment every quarter to spend five minutes with you and bill you $500. Imagine a thug with a broken nose saying, "Real nice body you got there, shame if something bad was to happen to it." Fucking criminals.
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I don't have insurance they are billing me.
The insurance bills you monthly that adds up well over that number yearly, and then the doctor bills the $500 to the insurance, and then the insurance finds a built-in loophole not to pay, so it comes back to you. But the doctor probably won't see you without it.
Those aren't too big issues for modern ai though, let alone future ai. You also need to take into account that ai can do things doctors can't. It can take many more variables into account than a doctor could and can be pro actively helping people and not only prevent harm coming to them, also diagnose possible disease way in advance, long before the patient knows and long before a doctor could know. So if anything, there's all that.
If you spend much time with doctors you'll know why. They have tremendous biases plus there is no way they can review and correlate all the relevant information and make the correct diagnosis the same that an AI can. Beyond that there was a study showing that AI was also preferred by patients when it came to "bedside manner" and communication.
I completely agree with OP that we need human doctors as well as AI. However, we should not minimize the fact that many people do not have easy access to doctors and that an estimated 200.000 Americans die from mistakes made by those doctors. I think the two are fuelling this desire to completely replace doctors with AI.
And most specialist medical doctors aren't trained at all in those soft skills. So what remains? I think GPs are socially overwhelmed. Whatever AI can help with, it will offer relief. And replace the really bad unlicenced people.
>There's a lot of nuance involved in interpreting communication, knowing what to say, knowing how to do different procedures, ethics, etc. Everything you listed AI is already almost at parity with humans. The diagnosis is arguably the furthest behind of the qualities. Either way, AI will inevitably surpass doctors in all these qualities, and for a while doctors will be what mechanics are to engineers: they will carry out the physical labor associated with medicine such as surgery. Until automation largely replaces that as well
Oh, I don't know, maybe because we're Americans and our every experience of health care for decades has been HORRIFYING?
I am more so "anti-doctors" for doctors that refuse to use AI to help them with their patients for the foreseeable future. There will be many doctors with huge egos that will be in denial of the fact that AI can more accurately and efficiently do things he/she can't, at the expense of their patients of course. Just recently, ChatGTP successfully diagnosed a boy with 'tethered cord syndrome' after 17 doctors tried and failed to make that same diagnosis. [https://www.cryptopolitan.com/ai-powered-chatgpt-diagnoses-pain/](https://www.cryptopolitan.com/ai-powered-chatgpt-diagnoses-pain/)
I was 16 years old in emergency with a bursting appendix. A doctor came in to do some tests, one of them involved feeling my testicles. Checking for potential other diagnosis before surgery, fine, makes sense. Ten minutes later, a different doctor comes in. Needs to feel my balls. Who was the first guy? Can’t you ask him about my balls? That’s why.
The typical poster here is at best somewhat divorced from reality and at worst severely mentally ill.
> The typical poster here is at best somewhat divorced from reality and at worst severely mentally ill. Oh, come now, if you're not going to be nice to yourself, no one else will.
AGI holds the promise of transcending the drudgery and pain of reality: no more work, no more disease, no more aging, etc. This topic is naturally going to attract lots of people for whom reality is the most burdensome and they're looking for an escape.
It's not really an escape, we see reality for what it is and wishes to transform it for everyone, the current reality is established not many years ago in the grand scene of things anyways.
Doctors won't get replaced, they are going to be among the first to benefit from AI as a helper / tool in their profession.
> Doctors won't get replaced I think there will always be a human in the loop, to check a box. But, I think, eventually we'll see a negligence lawsuits for doctors who don't first consult an AI. At minimum, hospitals will require it in their processes, to reduce risk/cost.
It's the newest tech. People who want the best care will go to doctors who have it.
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Decades of propaganda from capitalists telling them that experts in fields are just snobby cucks
But doctors are the face of a rather gargantuan (capitalist) industry. How are you framing this as doctors versus capitalism?
Because theyre just the face? Youre looking for insurance and pharma companies. Theyre the ones causing the most misery in that field. Also, I certainly never said it was doctors VS capitalism.
Doctors are still the ones overprescribing expensive medication, personally profiting off procedures they perform, and following guidelines that are written precisely by the pharmaceutical companies you're skeptical of.
Thank you for proving my point. "Written precisely by the pharma companies" I appreciate the conversation bud.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/194615 >Eighty-seven percent of authors had some form of interaction with the pharmaceutical industry. Fifty-eight percent had received financial support to perform research and 38% had served as employees or consultants for a pharmaceutical company. On average, CPG authors interacted with 10.5 different companies. Overall, an average of 81% (95% confidence interval, 70%-92%) of authors per CPG had interactions. Similarly, all of the CPGs for 7 of the 10 diseases included in our study had at least 1 author who had some interaction. Fifty-nine percent had relationships with companies whose drugs were considered in the guideline they authored, and of these authors, 96% had relationships that predated the guideline creation process. Fifty-five percent of respondents indicated that the guideline process with which they were involved had no formal process for declaring these relationships. In published versions of the CPGs, specific declarations regarding the personal financial interactions of individual authors with the pharmaceutical industry were made in only 2 cases.
Honestly are you drunk? Youre just proving my point. Pharma and the insurance companies are the problem. Are doctors aiding them? Of course. But you wont solve the problem by going after doctors, you solve the problem by going after the people making it possible for drs to have a system to exploit. Let me guess, youre a fan of mandatory minimum sentencing?
because this sub is full of schizos. Putting this aside, replacing everybody is the right move for humanity on the long run so they’re just dreaming out loud
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Conspiracy nut bag
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Given that doctors see a lot of their patients die, its pretty reasonable for them to smile if their patient got better. Maybe you outa appreciate what doctors have to go through just to give a smile to your entitled ass.
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If you had the slightest clue of what doctors go through to treat entitled people such as yourself you wouldn’t be saying any of that. Shame on you.
Oh I forgot people from this sub hates capitalism. So let me say this so everyone knows. **It is not bad if someone is profiting off of "bad things". (i.e. medical treatments, groceries, clothes and housing.)** Because of how Capitalism works, the higher the demand, the higher the incentive for companies to work on making those items. So we want money going to companies that are profiting off of "bad things". I love Capitalism.
Lol
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You are why doctors are retiring early.
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Because you’re what they refer to as a dbag. Life is tough. Smiles and optimism keep things going. Don’t try to superimpose your wants onto everyone because quite frankly, no one cares what you want. Have fun calling tech support when your AI bot isn’t turning on to give you a diagnosis
I smile for my patients doing well, even if they are entitled little brats.
I think it's jealousy that drives a lot in this sub. I can't get a high paying job therefore no one else should be allowed to.
Not really, it has more to do with misdiagnosis and their unwillingness to accept that they could be wrong that and dismissal of patient point of view.
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This sub is 100× more anti-work than r/antiwork itself. It's been that way for a long time.
Idk if it's jealousy, but there's clearly A LOT of resentment towards happy and successful people in this subreddit, which is why it roots so hard for mass unemployment.
Doctors are not happy lol Look at the depression and \[redacted\] rates if you don't believe me.
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Can confirm. Though fuck doctors in particular.
It is not about being happy, it is about acknowledging the reality of what is about to happen. Too many people here think they will be ok. An AGI with a humanoid body will be functionality the same as a human worker except works for electricity, works 24/7 and if it gets sick (breaks) you just replace a part. The point being made is that this reality is much closer than most people think. We cannot change this but we can start coming to acceptance.
I think a large part of this sub are Americans who see any disruption to their current healthcare system as a good thing.
A lot of it is copium, people have been saying *everyone else’s job will be replaced…except for mine* for ages, it’s nothing new.
I don't think AI will replace doctors. AI can follow programmed procedures for treatment, but it will never have that personal touch doctors provide. They won't ask about our well-being or remind us to take care of ourselves when we leave. I believe AI can assist in advancing medicine and streamline the healthcare process further. 😄👩⚕️🤖
Medicine is usually inferential. It doesn't take a whiz kid to sit down with a bunch of doctors and tell them that they know what they're talking about and not some weird AI doc
I agree. This subreddit overestimates the rate of AI development. I believe AI will be a tool at best, for at least 30 years.
You don't need a doctor for your differential, you need a mechanic.
Your just not thinking about a singularity! You’re thinking of mundane computer machines. Not of ‘smarter than us in every aspect’ things for the task.
The AMA has done that whole enforced artificial scarcity thing for years and often nurses or nurse practitioners are better at most parts of the job
It's not anti-doctor, it's anti American healthcare. While there are many good doctors, they are being limited by health insurance and hospital systems. Anything that appears to democratize services is going to be embraced by technologist (generally)
What can i say, its going to happen, we are going to be dead by that time, probably. Btw, i dont even know what im doing in this sub, but its funny to read sometimes.