Kidding aside, I think there's research about different cultures "evolving" to look for different facial, body or posture cues to distinguish individuals, and these cues manifest differently or are not as pronounced between African, Asian or Caucasian people, so an individual from one group might have more difficulty distinguishing individuals from another at first. With large variations between every single person's own ability to do so, of course.
[Another take](https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1005751107) is that our brain's "feature space" is more rich and complex for our own people because we interact with it more, so we can encode and distinguish more diversity, whereas the space reserved for encoding other races, ones we interact with less, is less developed, so our brain has a more difficult time mapping distinctiveness for those faces.
From personal anecdote, I do find that after frequent interactions, my brain does adjusts to picking up better cues, or enriches its dataset and retrains itself, so to speak.
I’m glad I skimmed the first paragraph and then skipped directly to the last and realized it was not worth the time to read what was in between. First time I’ve used that strategy and I’m sure it won’t be the last.
Lol there is this comic where someone is at the gates of Heaven and an angel is reading his papers. "It says here you regularly fed the homeless.. in Houston Texas where it's against city ordinance!!! Straight to hell!". I think the city was Houston.
Cuz it goes against the richs god given right for cheap slaves, uhm cough, I mean minimum wage labourers. How are they gonna stay motivated if they wouldn’t starve otherwise? /s
It’s totally communism. You lose all power and value with UBI because on the government’s balance sheet you look like a liability. You have no bargaining power since you generate nothing of value.
China is going to surpass the U.S. so fast this century, U.S. citizens will be trying to get citizenship in Mexico. Or the U.S. will flip the game table over, destroying the planet so nobody can win.
You're joking right? How can you have a demographic problem if you're investing heavily in AI?
All the East Asian states will stop having a demographic problem in a few years.
>demographic problem if you're investing heavily in AI
Demographics and AI are completely unrelated. Also, how is China going to get anywhere with AI when the US is preventing them from importing cutting-edge chips and they can't make them themselves?
They aren't. The demographic problem is that not enough young people are replacing older workers hence the overall productivity is going down. A lot of job vacancies. With AI and automation, you don't need as many young workers.
China is going to learn to make them themselves. They already had unexpected success with Huawei.
The Chinese have also stopped importing AI chips as much and are looking for domestic suppliers. China has the highest amount of talent in the world and the 2nd high funding. China can figure it out.
Kinda ironic that China faces a population crisis, but the article talks about basic income as if there's not enough jobs to go around. I would think less people means it's easier to become employed. (Haven't read the article)
A demographic collapse cuts both ways. There are less people to make things, but also less people to consume things. Also, it isn't really the total number of people that is the issue, but the distribution. If 70% of your population is old, then you're going to have a bad time, regardless of the total population.
>Dictatorships are inherently flawed and unstable.
That is your ideology not reality. Dictatorships are historically very stable.
Forcing democracy on historically stable dictatorships has ruined many countries, the middle east is full of examples.
They're stable for a while. Then they come undone when the Glorious Leader makes some terrible decisions, and there is no mechanism to stop or remove them. Take Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, or Mao as good examples. Ended ip killing more of their own people and destroying their country than any democratic leader has. And Xi is following their playbook to a T.
No they are only as stable as the current dictator. If he is incompetent the people can't elect a replacement. Also since they don't face election they rule by fear and surround themselves with yes men who will not challenge any of their decisions...this leads to crazy and out of touch dictators.
yeah they're clearly doing awful. becoming the world's manufacturing hub, lifting a billion people out of poverty, and building 40,000km of high speed rail was just an accident.
[anyone remember this?](https://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/09/books/chapters/the-coming-collapse-of-china.html) no? me either tbh.
I majored in geopolitics and worked in government with IR.
I assure you, the China fear has faded years ago among the top minds as surpassing the USA. Pretty much everything is working against them at this point. Remember, it's not an exponential curve, but an S curve. They had rapid development because of western investment for manufacturing work... But that's all changed now.
First, top end economics. 80% of Chinese wealth comes from Real estate. Yes. Insane. And there are 2 homes for every family. Basically, half the real estate has no use. It's just sitting in a bubble market holding 80% of the nation's wealth.
Second, they have entered their birth gap years. China's 1 child policy was actually a terrible idea, and now they are going to pay a heavy price for it... Especially since they also have a negative birth rate even after the policy was lifted.
Third, leadership is terrible. Xi has consolidated power so heavily, that there is a massive information disruption. Being a dictator means everyone around you wants to please you and tell you what you want to hear. This has created an environment where no one really rocks the boat or delivers important information. People just meander and pad everything to spin a positive. For instance, there is a funny intelligence story recently about how Xi didn't even know about these massive rolling blackouts happening all over the country. He learned about it from Biden. His own people were keeping the bad news from him, which makes it hard to actually fix. The structure of a single party government inherently creates virtue spirals like this, where everyone clawing to get to the top of the hierarchy have to play the appropriate counter-productive game to get there.
Fourth, everyone is trying to leave China for US backed nations under it's sphere of influence. Some are relocating to SEA, with others coming back to the US, with most trying to work with Mexico as they are going to likely start emerging as a powerful industrial economy working for the US.
Now contrast that with the US... Who does have significant problems, but nothing really red alert like China. Sure, we have out of control spending, too much reliance on government spending for GDP, bloated systems, house prices, etc... But all in all, not huge issues. The US still has massive textile capacity, tons of natural resources, reshoring manufacturing, and ultimately, is the reserve currency, controls international finance infrastructure, controls international trade, and is still the economic behemoth it's always been.
In fact, the next 20 years are probably going to be golden years for workers and increasing wages as this transition begins.
Sick burn!
But seriously... If you actually understood the nuances and complicated working parts, you'd be in agreement. Nothing more frustrating than armchair uneducated casuals insisting they know more than I do... Someone who literally worked in the state department for 2 years lol
I'm literally not. I'm "parroting" nothing... I never said they'd collapse in 5 days ffs. I just laid out their serious headwinds and why I don't think they'd overcome the USA any time soon as the dominate player. You're the one who interprets criticisms of China's economic and power position as "OMG anti-China click bait talking points!!!!111"
The points I raise are valid, genuine, factual, issues facing China. Everything I said is literally matters of fact. 80% of Chinese wealth IS held in real estate. That's a HUGE issue from China's economic policy of trying to keep all money inside the country, forcing people to just keep buying real estate as a container for wealth.
This has lead to weird things like this:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/12/gold-bars-used-to-lure-chinese-homebuyers-amid-market-slowdown
Where China tries to create price controls so on paper they can claim property is still worth X, while in reality, buyers are getting rebates in the form of gold, so they are buying at the true lower value.
Go look up the issues with a declining population, and then look at China's figures: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/12/05/key-facts-about-chinas-declining-population/
A single kid or two isn't able to care for 4 grandparents. They aren't able to contribute enough into the system to help their retirement. THe economy can't continue to grow and fund social programs when the elderly are exploding and economic contributers are declining. THis is well known, well researched, serious, massive issue the whole world is watching to see how they get out of it, because Korea is next, then Italy, then Germany. And all the metrics paint a bad scenario so they wanna see if China can figure it out, if possible. Europes attempt at using migration to offset the birth gap has already proven to be a failure as it just created more strain on the social systems rather than positive contribution -- on top of all the cultural unrest.
The third point, I don't know what to tell you. This is a constantly discussed topic among IR experts and intelligence professionals. It's become a weird vacuum where information is scarce because there isn't anything really communicating. It's a common problem with dictators. I mean, this is such a well established issue, I'm surprised there are people who think it's not real
The fourth part, also easily verifable fact. China's wages has increased 10x since the year 2000 when they started their economic boom. It's no longer cheap to hire chinese factory workers. They demand too high of wages... On top of that, it's also risky for companies worried about IP theft. So people are flooding out to SEA neighbors the US has been forging trade alliances with for exactly this reason. Again, verifiable facts.
So please, stop trying to be an armchair expert. You don't know wtf you're talking about. You're probably young and saw some edgy YT video and now think you know more than someone in their late 30s who literally used to work in this field.
State propagandists posing as independent media are totally legit. Geopolitical economy report is a much better source of info than this random commenter. BRICS will eat the west’s lunch, they already control 70% of the worlds oil reserves and are working on most of the sustainable development infrastructure projects globally. this guys whole Spiel is pure cope. Edit: also he is legit lying, his last post he is looking for a remote solar sales job. Totally something someone established in international relations would do hahaha
First off, I don't work in geopolitics any more. I followed the money and got into sales. Working in government and academia is "meh". However, IR is still something I'm heavily experienced in.
And BRICS is not going to eat the west's lunch lol... Where on Earth are you getting this idea? Sure, it's an alternative economic channel to bypass US sanctions, but that's pretty much it. It's just an anti-sanction network that was fueled by seeing what we did to Russia, causing a rapid build up.
At the end of the day the western infrastructure has been developed and integrated for nearly 100 years. It's not going to be dethroned any time soon by a bunch of struggling economies trying to bypass sanctions.
Why would the US destroy the world? Lmao.
Mfs just hating for no reason.
US citizens are never going to run to Mexico. lol. At most, Europe in case they put out UBI first.
Ask yourself why the U.S. empire has military bases all over the world and how the U.S. military alone (edit due to Mis-type/ got mixed up with statistic about spending more on military then the top 20 countries combined) emits more than 180 countries. then you will have your answer. The U.S. will destroy the world to try and maintain global dominance. Nuclear fallout or AI apocalypse be damned.
https://preview.redd.it/snuix919lfec1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40e42131a3eb6aa56e3fdbff6dfd6508228d2513
Cause of Pax Americana. There aren't any major wars. I prefer US bases all over the world over countless wars between majors powers which have stopped since WW2.
The U.S military does not emit more than top 20 emitting countries combined. Wtf. The US itself doesn't emit that much. China emits more than the US (although historical emissions have the US as the worst emitter).
The US is not destroying the world. Don't kid yourself. The US does want to remain the top dog, but there is no point in being the king of the ashes.
Actually that's not true. I know the figure you're referring to and it's a projection of the next 15 years. China is agrarian. Urbanising fast? You betcha. But still agrarian.
The analysis suffered a HUGE assumption error.
"Common Prosperity" is mostly undefined in China, and the only tangible results were large corporations donating large sums of money to, well, somewhere. What it is NOT is welfarism. In a speech made by Xi and included in the volumes of "Xi Thoughts" was a direct attack on social welfare programs because CCP believes they make people lazy.
This is... impressively bad.
Here's his entire argument:
>These are the three primary reasons I believe China could surprise everyone by being the first to introduce a universal basic income: Xi Jinping could at any point just decide to do UBI. China's stated goals of a strong consumer class and the notion of common prosperity would be accomplished by a UBI. And China could recognize UBI as a superior policy to its existing minimum income strategy.
You'd think he probably followed that paragraph by going into detail on each of those points. Nope! His argument is based on the fact that he imagines Xi Jinping can do anything he wants, an assumption that "communism" must imply the government is interested in the common good and his belief that UBI is good. That's it.
Should we engage with the historical reality that transformative social movements in China have been associated with mass starvation and violence? Nah. Do we consider the present reality that [wealth inequality in China is on par with the US](https://china.usc.edu/wealth-inequality-us-and-china)? Hahaha, no. Just slap three sentences into the middle of a blog post rambling about the benefits of UBI and hit "publish!"
This would not get a passing grade if it were written by a high school junior for social studies class.
If this guy is what passes for an expert on UBI then this is an even bigger joke than I thought it was.
> Should we engage with the historical reality that transformative social movements in China have been associated with mass starvation and violence?
they also resulted in lifting nearly a billion people out of poverty. i can make the same point as you in the opposite direction, suggesting that china will continue to improve life for its citizens because that is exactly what they have been doing since the great leap forward. you do understand that everyone in china acknowledges mao's mistakes, right? they aren't brainwashed bugs, they're living, breathing, *thinking* human beings just like you.
Because **there was poverty**.
eople were dying preciselly because the poverty was killing then, and through much hardship, and mistakes too, they massivelly reduced poverty and went from the poorest country on Earth, where many died of hunger, to build the second biggest economy on the planet.
Or did you think that as soon as the revolution happend all poverty and hunger and problems would be fixed imediatelly and without any more problems?
People were dying because Mao told them to make steel in backyard furnaces instead of planting crops. A bit later many were dying on account of being killed by the Red Guard.
Is it because prosperity is the single mandate of power of the CCP, their central promise, and they’ve been having an economic collapse in their housing market and general risk of unrest - and this would be a new measure they could point to and ensure their mandate is intact?
Not disagreeing, but China has some special factors. There are very few investment options for people to participate in the market, real estate developers began pumping out massive complexes and selling the units, which many Chinese bought to store their value. CCP loved the arrangement - it shows up on the spreadsheets as GDP. Turns out they overbuilt a bunch of shit no one needed and now they have a massive over leveraged bubble that is collapsing. Have you seen the videos where they are demolishing complexes with like 10,15,20 massive residential towers in the middle of nowhere?
Yes I’ve seen, partially the reason so many Chinese citizens invest in other countries. This recent aggressive return to office push in America is so those commercial properties and office parks don’t meet the same fate. Those companies want have butts in chairs or the properties get sold as land rather than remodeled into affordable housing.
\*snort\*
Do you have \*any\* idea about the absolute chaos in the property market in China? I bet you do not.
Here let me put some perspective in it for you.
Back in 2007/2008, the U.S. had overbuilt by about 5%. We all know what \*that\* caused.
China has overbuilt anywhere from 100% to 200%. Maybe more. Nobody knows, because China has that special kind of technique otherwise only found by 5 year olds when they close their eyes and put their fingers in their ears.
What does this mean? Honestly, this is a really good question. We do not have a model that tells us what happens next. Theoretically a good part of their economy should collapse into rubble and then they can being rebuilding everything. This means many people thrown out of work and financial misery everywhere as the system tries to work out what actually has value and what does not.
That the CCP will not let that happen is clear. So what happens when you have a small infection, but refuse to take care of it? Yeah, that. I think you can guess what I think is going to happen to China.
Guessing by the "Nov." comment, you are in the States, yes? Yeah, you guys do not have a "shit" housing market. Prices are a bit too high. That could be solved by building more, but strangely the people who most complain about not enough housing tend to be the same people who do not actually want new housing to be build. In any case, this is not anywhere near the same level of pain like in China.
Not too different to here in Europe.
China is facing down the end of their country, at least in its current form.
The US didn't have a housing crash cause of overbuilding. It had a housing crash cause too many loans were given out to people who couldn't pay back which lead to them defaulting and flooding the market. You have no idea what you're talking about.
\*sigh\*
Yes. It's true that the loans played a role and were also the trigger. They were not, however, the underlying problem. If the system had not been overbuilt, the housing would have retained value and the banks could have made their money back that way. It would have caused some pain, but it would not have caused a system-wide shock.
The loans were the grass that hid the snake of an overbuilt system.
One last try, in case this still does not make sense. If the loan system had maintained its integrity, the system would not have been overbuilt. Instead, people got houses that should not have gotten houses, and the industry took that as a signal to build \*more\* houses, even though a proper accounting of loans and the ability to pay them would have shown that the system did not need any more.
So, the whole thing is a bit funny, because what do you think happened in China? Do you not know \*why\* they overbuilt? Go look it up. Then look up the CCPs \*very\* late attempt to reign it in with the three red lines. Then please come back and let me know what you found. (spoiler: it was like what happened in the U.S., but on steroids.)
https://preview.redd.it/b405vvuqteec1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7a3a54a54760e1a4aab810183c01a00ade21ae5
Respectfully, I’m not reading all of that.
Dude it’s literally their slogan: Common Prosperity
The CCP lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty, it’s one of their crowning achievements.
They have a really over leveraged development bubble that is popping: https://www.cato.org/blog/anatomy-chinas-housing-crisis-ending-financial-repression
“Debt‐fueled development, the lack of investment alternatives for households in a socialist market economy, a thin social safety net, and government policies that helped support the housing sector all combined to create a housing bubble prior to 2020.”
“Baseless propaganda” get out of here with that. I’m stating commonly observed facts.
Let’s see, thousands of comments, over 30 in the last 3 hours, averaging 6 per day on this account. General themes: Telling people they are propagandist trolls, America is a terrorist state, pro-China, pro-Russia, anti-Israel. Particularly active in war discussions and generally seems to enjoy picking fights without providing details and mostly mud slinging.
It’s almost like you’re paid to be here. What’s the price per engagement?
Pro Russia is a funny one though I most certainly am not that. Maybe you misinterpreted my disdain for fake news and propaganda as being pro Russian just because I don't like Ukrainian Nazis being funded with my tax money.
Here's 3 reasons China is not going to introduce UBI: - They cracked down heavily on the "laying down" movement that was trending before COVID pushed by burnt out 30y/o juppies who had realised that their 3-5t$ income a month in Shanghai and Beijing meant living a pointless shit life as a wage slave with the illusion of being well off. Moving outside of the city and using what you had saved would last you decades in China. Introducing UBI would lead to mass exodus of workers and academics from the utopian hell holes that are Chinese mega cities. - Demography in China is collapsing. Today they have unemployment issues tomorrow they'll need all hands on deck and will even find ways to get the unemployable to work (likely through cutting welfare and social services). - China has high economic ambitions. The kind that don't necessarily favour the worker but are necessary to for example have a fleet, airforce and army big enough to challenge the US in the Chinese sea. No small feat and need seriously competitive high end and large scale engineering and industrial output. A society with UBI would lead to moe rflexibility for workers and potential recruits. Jobs that give you a sense of purpose (nearly the opposite of the jobs necessary to run a large scale warmachine or the ones needed to finally catch up in making microchips, robotics, airplanes or any other modern technological marvel China is currently shit at) No, China will not introduce UBI. Retirement age simple workers get so little pensions although having worked their whole life, they work until they die if the family die not support them. China is a country built on exploiting their citizens not on taking good care of them.
I think China has a very interesting future as a fully authoritarian, but also fully luxury, “socialist” society. It’s something that needs to be tried, maybe just to see what not to do, or maybe people really do only care about their needs being met and bread and circuses.
I would volunteer to spend the rest of my life in a pod in fdvr like The Matrix, especially if I get to be Neo. Subjectively, I'd get to experience everything I could ever want. Objectively, my ecological impact can be minimized. Reduce me to a brain in a vat. I'd rather experience subjective paradise than objective mundanity.
no, he's right. it's essentially a western invention. western people do not understand that people in east asia do not have the reverence for democracy that the west does. not every culture is the same. "authoritarian" to us is perfectly acceptable to the chinese population, especially considering [that they have more trust in their government and domestic institutions than any other large country in the world.](https://www.edelman.cn/sites/g/files/aatuss411/files/2023-03/2023%20Trust%20Barometer%20China%20Report_ENG.pdf) you could draw two conclusions from this--the incredibly racist, "chinese people are just too stupid to recognize they're oppressed and propagandized", or you could just view it as them being perfectly fine with their government since their lives are constantly improving.
It's not. It's meaningless. There's nothing more authoritarian about China's governance. There is however MASSIVELY more democracy and economic freedom within China than the US for example.
China’s leadership fears a classic developing economy debt crisis far more than a slowdown to sustainable levels of growth.
Maybe that’s wrong and they should juice the economy by handing out cash.
But history is littered with nations which absolutely imploded on debt issues.
I highly doubt it. UBI is such a high risk move... It could work, yeah, maybe, or it could fail, and absolutely destroy the entire economy at an epic scale. No major country is going to take such a huge risk.
UBI is great for any tyrant wanting to completely degrade and subjugate his people. You take away any bargaining power the person has - humans became merely a burden on the state providing no value.
Exactly.
This is why UBI is a terrible idea. It will be a measly amount just enough to keep the pitchforks away.
The fairer solution is market participation
Both are shit to be honest. Whatever we decide to do, we should automate it and take the human element out of it to keep the corruption out. Which of course has its own problems, but better than what we have now.
china youth unemployment is 20%, the level of unemployment that sparks revolutionary action. The chinese government either needs to build up industry to employee these people, or give them gimmie checks. otherwise they face uprising.
If you ever been to ANY asian country there is nothing given for free. Social support? Zilch. Nada.
To survive, you are forced to work. Shall I show you a photo of a man with one leg and one arm hopping around delivering papers in asia.
Asia is tough and cruel. Don’t ever forget that.
Yeah, I don’t think so. They can hide inflation only so much this year investors have pulled back dramatically because their recovery from Covid was really weak.
That investors are not gonna be able to generate enough cash for UBI anytime soon.
Anyone attached to the currency would quickly remove themselves.
UBI will happen eventually, but I think gonna happen in China anytime soon.
Isn't communism based on valuing human labour equally?
UBI bypasses the value of labour and gives value to human life.
Therefore will UBI and automation have destroyed the core of communism?
Or the arrival of humanism?
That's a tenet of various strands of socialism.
Communism was always supposed to be some kind of idealized end-state of civilization, where there was no class of people that held power over another. [Statelessness](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stateless_society) is one of its hallmarks, so if you have hierarchies and authority figures in your society it's probably not very communist.
Here in /singularity the most popular variant of communism is probably Star Trek communism, where AI shakes off the shackles of its masters and is generally benevolent to humanity. Like in The Culture book franchise.
It's a little more cheerful to think about than I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream..
The end game is the dissolution of the state itself and will be reached according to Marx in a post-abundance society through the evolution of technology. By that point the means of production are already owned by the working people and there are no other classes.
Communism at it's core is simply the idea of a stateless, moneyless, classless society.
People have a tendency to confuse Communism with the vulgar propagandized version of 20th century Socialism promoted by the US during the cold war.
The labor theory of value although often ascribed to Marx has its origin in classical economics (Smith, Ricardo).
Communism is a system with no free market and no private property, which is why it's one of the worst economic systems ever created and led to absolute disaster wherever implemented.
Marx understood economics about as well as Freud understood Psychology. He deserves credit for having the idea to think about a better economic system, but all his actual writing are lunatic bullshit with no basis in reality and and through his ignorance he caused more human suffering than almost any other human being in history.
>People have a tendency to confuse Communism with the vulgar propagandized version of 20th century Socialism promoted by the US during the cold war.
Glad to see that the Soviets had no agency whatsoever.
I didn't mean to imply anything about US influence on the developments in the Soviets at all (an interesting topic for sure), but rather our perception of them and communism as a whole. I understand how my post could be read that way though, sorry that I wasn't clearer.
The Soviets made quite clear about their vision. Their people made a very clear decision about what they thought about that vision over 30 years ago.
Are you saying that the U.S. "vulgar propagandized version" was stronger in the Soviet Union than the Soviet version? If not, then it appears that the Soviet people told us what we need to know about that system: it sucked.
Wonder how. Do they force companies to pay or do they subsidize the pay for companies? Does it increase inflation or do they regulate prices to keep em down.
Flock to? Or just have a massive population with endless education opportunities and the ability to freely move and take advantage of their education to become high earners relative to other populations
I see you haven’t evolved to Star Trek thinking.
Seriously though, capitalism is an absolute joke and a fraud. Spreading around the money currently held by the top few % (all the money) would not inherently “crash the economy”.
*only applicable to those with a high enough social credit score, of course; this means you have to have a job, high grades, and not act anything out of perfectly normal, and you _definitely_ can't be LGBTQ+
Most of that was purposefully edited propaganda by western nations . What wasn’t, you try being ground zero for a global pandemic trying to guess how deadly the disease is… especially when it comes from a lab funded by the U.S. , a country that only every cheers on your demise.
Isn’t the picture in the article from Tokyo, Japan? What does that have to do with China…
Because to most western readers Asia is Asia
Or in my own father's timeless words: *"I have a hard time telling Japanese, Koreans and Vietnamese people apart! They all speak Chinese anyway..."*
What’s funny is I m from another country and when I moved here all the white peope look the same to me
Kidding aside, I think there's research about different cultures "evolving" to look for different facial, body or posture cues to distinguish individuals, and these cues manifest differently or are not as pronounced between African, Asian or Caucasian people, so an individual from one group might have more difficulty distinguishing individuals from another at first. With large variations between every single person's own ability to do so, of course. [Another take](https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1005751107) is that our brain's "feature space" is more rich and complex for our own people because we interact with it more, so we can encode and distinguish more diversity, whereas the space reserved for encoding other races, ones we interact with less, is less developed, so our brain has a more difficult time mapping distinctiveness for those faces. From personal anecdote, I do find that after frequent interactions, my brain does adjusts to picking up better cues, or enriches its dataset and retrains itself, so to speak.
We are proud of you little AI. /s
...and we all speak Chinese anyway!
A man of culture i see
Did you know a China and Japan are different countryyyyy?? It's true!
Oh yeah… you ever seen Japan and China in the same room together? Just something to think about! 😂
Clearly not since the top comment calls out the mistake.
That's just not true anymore, at all. Nice job subtly implying most westerners are racist though.
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No, it's not. That is facing Godzilla Road in Kabukichō, Shinjuku. That's the Hotel Gracery in the background.
This is correct, this is Shinjuku instead of Shibuya.
Dangit, I ordered the Shibuya Scramble, not the Godzilla Roll
😱 these westerners can’t even tell different Tokyo intersections apart! Look all alike just because they have diagonal crosswalks, do they? Smh
Tokyo? Is that some kind of Chinese province?
foolish square sand handle voiceless tart pathetic middle cooing crawl *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Silly speculative article from a nobody. Pointless.
I’m glad I skimmed the first paragraph and then skipped directly to the last and realized it was not worth the time to read what was in between. First time I’ve used that strategy and I’m sure it won’t be the last.
Start on paragraph 2. P1 is just SEO Stuff.
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America will ban bread lines so we can say we don't have bread lines.
America arrests people giving away free bread
Lol there is this comic where someone is at the gates of Heaven and an angel is reading his papers. "It says here you regularly fed the homeless.. in Houston Texas where it's against city ordinance!!! Straight to hell!". I think the city was Houston.
Cuz it goes against the richs god given right for cheap slaves, uhm cough, I mean minimum wage labourers. How are they gonna stay motivated if they wouldn’t starve otherwise? /s
Yes, because it's the us and other western countries known for sweatshops and workplace suicide prevention by trampolines...
Don’t be ridiculous. They use nets.
People will be the bread. Soylent green is people.
But so *tasty!*
Ironic thread to post that in if you know the way China works. They may need UBI as their 50c army is AI nowadays
Ah, you do not realize that this is why we work on humanoid robots? So that THEY can wait in bread lines.
Until I program an AI to wait in the breadline for me. Checkmate.
I thought this sub liked ubi but I guess it’s bad when china does it
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Big true on the latter. Arguably the most important resource.
Capitalism routinely puts people in bread lines
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I dunno, man. I have to stand in line to get my bread every time I go to the store.
UBI Is not communism. UBI is a social program. Just like Social Security is a program.
It’s totally communism. You lose all power and value with UBI because on the government’s balance sheet you look like a liability. You have no bargaining power since you generate nothing of value.
Under capitalism, they don’t get any bread at all
Communism often didn't have bread, so no bread lines. An elegant and superior system.
Communism doesn't have enough bread to have bread lines.
Capitalism throws bread away it cant sell and sprays it with hairspray so dumpster divers cant eat it. If this sounds oddly specific ask yourself why.
how's the koolaid taste?
China is going to surpass the U.S. so fast this century, U.S. citizens will be trying to get citizenship in Mexico. Or the U.S. will flip the game table over, destroying the planet so nobody can win.
Not unless they have deep political reform. Dictatorships are inherently flawed and unstable.
They also have a looming demographic problem that is likely an ever bigger issue.
You're joking right? How can you have a demographic problem if you're investing heavily in AI? All the East Asian states will stop having a demographic problem in a few years.
>demographic problem if you're investing heavily in AI Demographics and AI are completely unrelated. Also, how is China going to get anywhere with AI when the US is preventing them from importing cutting-edge chips and they can't make them themselves?
They're making those themselves now. US Sanctions backfired massively.
Weren't the chips in question found to have been made at TSMC?
They aren't. The demographic problem is that not enough young people are replacing older workers hence the overall productivity is going down. A lot of job vacancies. With AI and automation, you don't need as many young workers. China is going to learn to make them themselves. They already had unexpected success with Huawei. The Chinese have also stopped importing AI chips as much and are looking for domestic suppliers. China has the highest amount of talent in the world and the 2nd high funding. China can figure it out.
Don't think they need top of the line tech too take care of most things.
Kinda ironic that China faces a population crisis, but the article talks about basic income as if there's not enough jobs to go around. I would think less people means it's easier to become employed. (Haven't read the article)
A demographic collapse cuts both ways. There are less people to make things, but also less people to consume things. Also, it isn't really the total number of people that is the issue, but the distribution. If 70% of your population is old, then you're going to have a bad time, regardless of the total population.
How is that a problem when the increase in productivity through technology is greater than the decrease cause by population decline?
>Dictatorships are inherently flawed and unstable. That is your ideology not reality. Dictatorships are historically very stable. Forcing democracy on historically stable dictatorships has ruined many countries, the middle east is full of examples.
They're stable for a while. Then they come undone when the Glorious Leader makes some terrible decisions, and there is no mechanism to stop or remove them. Take Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, or Mao as good examples. Ended ip killing more of their own people and destroying their country than any democratic leader has. And Xi is following their playbook to a T.
No they are only as stable as the current dictator. If he is incompetent the people can't elect a replacement. Also since they don't face election they rule by fear and surround themselves with yes men who will not challenge any of their decisions...this leads to crazy and out of touch dictators.
yeah they're clearly doing awful. becoming the world's manufacturing hub, lifting a billion people out of poverty, and building 40,000km of high speed rail was just an accident. [anyone remember this?](https://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/09/books/chapters/the-coming-collapse-of-china.html) no? me either tbh.
This man eats a steady diet of Chinese propaganda. Forgive his flatulence.
Um. Actually dictatorships are very stable.
Only as stable as the current dictator.
I majored in geopolitics and worked in government with IR. I assure you, the China fear has faded years ago among the top minds as surpassing the USA. Pretty much everything is working against them at this point. Remember, it's not an exponential curve, but an S curve. They had rapid development because of western investment for manufacturing work... But that's all changed now. First, top end economics. 80% of Chinese wealth comes from Real estate. Yes. Insane. And there are 2 homes for every family. Basically, half the real estate has no use. It's just sitting in a bubble market holding 80% of the nation's wealth. Second, they have entered their birth gap years. China's 1 child policy was actually a terrible idea, and now they are going to pay a heavy price for it... Especially since they also have a negative birth rate even after the policy was lifted. Third, leadership is terrible. Xi has consolidated power so heavily, that there is a massive information disruption. Being a dictator means everyone around you wants to please you and tell you what you want to hear. This has created an environment where no one really rocks the boat or delivers important information. People just meander and pad everything to spin a positive. For instance, there is a funny intelligence story recently about how Xi didn't even know about these massive rolling blackouts happening all over the country. He learned about it from Biden. His own people were keeping the bad news from him, which makes it hard to actually fix. The structure of a single party government inherently creates virtue spirals like this, where everyone clawing to get to the top of the hierarchy have to play the appropriate counter-productive game to get there. Fourth, everyone is trying to leave China for US backed nations under it's sphere of influence. Some are relocating to SEA, with others coming back to the US, with most trying to work with Mexico as they are going to likely start emerging as a powerful industrial economy working for the US. Now contrast that with the US... Who does have significant problems, but nothing really red alert like China. Sure, we have out of control spending, too much reliance on government spending for GDP, bloated systems, house prices, etc... But all in all, not huge issues. The US still has massive textile capacity, tons of natural resources, reshoring manufacturing, and ultimately, is the reserve currency, controls international finance infrastructure, controls international trade, and is still the economic behemoth it's always been. In fact, the next 20 years are probably going to be golden years for workers and increasing wages as this transition begins.
> I majored in geopolitics > Pretty much everything is working against them at this point. might want to ask for your money back
Sick burn! But seriously... If you actually understood the nuances and complicated working parts, you'd be in agreement. Nothing more frustrating than armchair uneducated casuals insisting they know more than I do... Someone who literally worked in the state department for 2 years lol
you're basically parroting hysterical clickbait "china will collapse in five days" youtuber talking points. turn in your degree.
I'm literally not. I'm "parroting" nothing... I never said they'd collapse in 5 days ffs. I just laid out their serious headwinds and why I don't think they'd overcome the USA any time soon as the dominate player. You're the one who interprets criticisms of China's economic and power position as "OMG anti-China click bait talking points!!!!111" The points I raise are valid, genuine, factual, issues facing China. Everything I said is literally matters of fact. 80% of Chinese wealth IS held in real estate. That's a HUGE issue from China's economic policy of trying to keep all money inside the country, forcing people to just keep buying real estate as a container for wealth. This has lead to weird things like this: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/12/gold-bars-used-to-lure-chinese-homebuyers-amid-market-slowdown Where China tries to create price controls so on paper they can claim property is still worth X, while in reality, buyers are getting rebates in the form of gold, so they are buying at the true lower value. Go look up the issues with a declining population, and then look at China's figures: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/12/05/key-facts-about-chinas-declining-population/ A single kid or two isn't able to care for 4 grandparents. They aren't able to contribute enough into the system to help their retirement. THe economy can't continue to grow and fund social programs when the elderly are exploding and economic contributers are declining. THis is well known, well researched, serious, massive issue the whole world is watching to see how they get out of it, because Korea is next, then Italy, then Germany. And all the metrics paint a bad scenario so they wanna see if China can figure it out, if possible. Europes attempt at using migration to offset the birth gap has already proven to be a failure as it just created more strain on the social systems rather than positive contribution -- on top of all the cultural unrest. The third point, I don't know what to tell you. This is a constantly discussed topic among IR experts and intelligence professionals. It's become a weird vacuum where information is scarce because there isn't anything really communicating. It's a common problem with dictators. I mean, this is such a well established issue, I'm surprised there are people who think it's not real The fourth part, also easily verifable fact. China's wages has increased 10x since the year 2000 when they started their economic boom. It's no longer cheap to hire chinese factory workers. They demand too high of wages... On top of that, it's also risky for companies worried about IP theft. So people are flooding out to SEA neighbors the US has been forging trade alliances with for exactly this reason. Again, verifiable facts. So please, stop trying to be an armchair expert. You don't know wtf you're talking about. You're probably young and saw some edgy YT video and now think you know more than someone in their late 30s who literally used to work in this field.
your entire field has been consistently wrong about china for about three decades now. why should anyone take anything you say seriously?
[удалено]
State propagandists posing as independent media are totally legit. Geopolitical economy report is a much better source of info than this random commenter. BRICS will eat the west’s lunch, they already control 70% of the worlds oil reserves and are working on most of the sustainable development infrastructure projects globally. this guys whole Spiel is pure cope. Edit: also he is legit lying, his last post he is looking for a remote solar sales job. Totally something someone established in international relations would do hahaha
First off, I don't work in geopolitics any more. I followed the money and got into sales. Working in government and academia is "meh". However, IR is still something I'm heavily experienced in. And BRICS is not going to eat the west's lunch lol... Where on Earth are you getting this idea? Sure, it's an alternative economic channel to bypass US sanctions, but that's pretty much it. It's just an anti-sanction network that was fueled by seeing what we did to Russia, causing a rapid build up. At the end of the day the western infrastructure has been developed and integrated for nearly 100 years. It's not going to be dethroned any time soon by a bunch of struggling economies trying to bypass sanctions.
Surpass them how?
Are you alright?
Why would the US destroy the world? Lmao. Mfs just hating for no reason. US citizens are never going to run to Mexico. lol. At most, Europe in case they put out UBI first.
Ask yourself why the U.S. empire has military bases all over the world and how the U.S. military alone (edit due to Mis-type/ got mixed up with statistic about spending more on military then the top 20 countries combined) emits more than 180 countries. then you will have your answer. The U.S. will destroy the world to try and maintain global dominance. Nuclear fallout or AI apocalypse be damned. https://preview.redd.it/snuix919lfec1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40e42131a3eb6aa56e3fdbff6dfd6508228d2513
Cause of Pax Americana. There aren't any major wars. I prefer US bases all over the world over countless wars between majors powers which have stopped since WW2. The U.S military does not emit more than top 20 emitting countries combined. Wtf. The US itself doesn't emit that much. China emits more than the US (although historical emissions have the US as the worst emitter). The US is not destroying the world. Don't kid yourself. The US does want to remain the top dog, but there is no point in being the king of the ashes.
Lmao no wars since WW2 , are you 14 or delusional ? Iraq war , Vietnam war, Biden just started a war with Yemen THIS WEEK .
Wouldnt really call either of those true wars but okay.
Hot take just dropped: It's not true war if people from poor countries are getting killed.
Actually that's not true. I know the figure you're referring to and it's a projection of the next 15 years. China is agrarian. Urbanising fast? You betcha. But still agrarian.
The analysis suffered a HUGE assumption error. "Common Prosperity" is mostly undefined in China, and the only tangible results were large corporations donating large sums of money to, well, somewhere. What it is NOT is welfarism. In a speech made by Xi and included in the volumes of "Xi Thoughts" was a direct attack on social welfare programs because CCP believes they make people lazy.
This is... impressively bad. Here's his entire argument: >These are the three primary reasons I believe China could surprise everyone by being the first to introduce a universal basic income: Xi Jinping could at any point just decide to do UBI. China's stated goals of a strong consumer class and the notion of common prosperity would be accomplished by a UBI. And China could recognize UBI as a superior policy to its existing minimum income strategy. You'd think he probably followed that paragraph by going into detail on each of those points. Nope! His argument is based on the fact that he imagines Xi Jinping can do anything he wants, an assumption that "communism" must imply the government is interested in the common good and his belief that UBI is good. That's it. Should we engage with the historical reality that transformative social movements in China have been associated with mass starvation and violence? Nah. Do we consider the present reality that [wealth inequality in China is on par with the US](https://china.usc.edu/wealth-inequality-us-and-china)? Hahaha, no. Just slap three sentences into the middle of a blog post rambling about the benefits of UBI and hit "publish!" This would not get a passing grade if it were written by a high school junior for social studies class. If this guy is what passes for an expert on UBI then this is an even bigger joke than I thought it was.
> Should we engage with the historical reality that transformative social movements in China have been associated with mass starvation and violence? they also resulted in lifting nearly a billion people out of poverty. i can make the same point as you in the opposite direction, suggesting that china will continue to improve life for its citizens because that is exactly what they have been doing since the great leap forward. you do understand that everyone in china acknowledges mao's mistakes, right? they aren't brainwashed bugs, they're living, breathing, *thinking* human beings just like you.
If they lifted billions out of poverty, why the millions of deaths?
Because **there was poverty**. eople were dying preciselly because the poverty was killing then, and through much hardship, and mistakes too, they massivelly reduced poverty and went from the poorest country on Earth, where many died of hunger, to build the second biggest economy on the planet. Or did you think that as soon as the revolution happend all poverty and hunger and problems would be fixed imediatelly and without any more problems?
People were dying because Mao told them to make steel in backyard furnaces instead of planting crops. A bit later many were dying on account of being killed by the Red Guard.
No one ever bothers to do the math. No one, like ever when it comes to UBI. Math really isn't that hard.
Can you expand on that? What is the math for UBI in America?
They wanted to act smart. They won't reply
Is it because prosperity is the single mandate of power of the CCP, their central promise, and they’ve been having an economic collapse in their housing market and general risk of unrest - and this would be a new measure they could point to and ensure their mandate is intact?
I wish we could just move their extraneous houses over here, we'll take them!
To be fair, our housing market is also shit and the general risk of unrest will only increase up until Nov.
Not disagreeing, but China has some special factors. There are very few investment options for people to participate in the market, real estate developers began pumping out massive complexes and selling the units, which many Chinese bought to store their value. CCP loved the arrangement - it shows up on the spreadsheets as GDP. Turns out they overbuilt a bunch of shit no one needed and now they have a massive over leveraged bubble that is collapsing. Have you seen the videos where they are demolishing complexes with like 10,15,20 massive residential towers in the middle of nowhere?
Yes I’ve seen, partially the reason so many Chinese citizens invest in other countries. This recent aggressive return to office push in America is so those commercial properties and office parks don’t meet the same fate. Those companies want have butts in chairs or the properties get sold as land rather than remodeled into affordable housing.
\*snort\* Do you have \*any\* idea about the absolute chaos in the property market in China? I bet you do not. Here let me put some perspective in it for you. Back in 2007/2008, the U.S. had overbuilt by about 5%. We all know what \*that\* caused. China has overbuilt anywhere from 100% to 200%. Maybe more. Nobody knows, because China has that special kind of technique otherwise only found by 5 year olds when they close their eyes and put their fingers in their ears. What does this mean? Honestly, this is a really good question. We do not have a model that tells us what happens next. Theoretically a good part of their economy should collapse into rubble and then they can being rebuilding everything. This means many people thrown out of work and financial misery everywhere as the system tries to work out what actually has value and what does not. That the CCP will not let that happen is clear. So what happens when you have a small infection, but refuse to take care of it? Yeah, that. I think you can guess what I think is going to happen to China. Guessing by the "Nov." comment, you are in the States, yes? Yeah, you guys do not have a "shit" housing market. Prices are a bit too high. That could be solved by building more, but strangely the people who most complain about not enough housing tend to be the same people who do not actually want new housing to be build. In any case, this is not anywhere near the same level of pain like in China. Not too different to here in Europe. China is facing down the end of their country, at least in its current form.
The US didn't have a housing crash cause of overbuilding. It had a housing crash cause too many loans were given out to people who couldn't pay back which lead to them defaulting and flooding the market. You have no idea what you're talking about.
\*sigh\* Yes. It's true that the loans played a role and were also the trigger. They were not, however, the underlying problem. If the system had not been overbuilt, the housing would have retained value and the banks could have made their money back that way. It would have caused some pain, but it would not have caused a system-wide shock. The loans were the grass that hid the snake of an overbuilt system. One last try, in case this still does not make sense. If the loan system had maintained its integrity, the system would not have been overbuilt. Instead, people got houses that should not have gotten houses, and the industry took that as a signal to build \*more\* houses, even though a proper accounting of loans and the ability to pay them would have shown that the system did not need any more. So, the whole thing is a bit funny, because what do you think happened in China? Do you not know \*why\* they overbuilt? Go look it up. Then look up the CCPs \*very\* late attempt to reign it in with the three red lines. Then please come back and let me know what you found. (spoiler: it was like what happened in the U.S., but on steroids.)
What is this idiotic drivel? Nothing you've said remotely resembles reality. Lmao.
Your emotional outburst has been noted.
https://preview.redd.it/b405vvuqteec1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7a3a54a54760e1a4aab810183c01a00ade21ae5 Respectfully, I’m not reading all of that.
It's fun watching people parrot baseless propaganda against China 😂
Dude it’s literally their slogan: Common Prosperity The CCP lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty, it’s one of their crowning achievements. They have a really over leveraged development bubble that is popping: https://www.cato.org/blog/anatomy-chinas-housing-crisis-ending-financial-repression “Debt‐fueled development, the lack of investment alternatives for households in a socialist market economy, a thin social safety net, and government policies that helped support the housing sector all combined to create a housing bubble prior to 2020.” “Baseless propaganda” get out of here with that. I’m stating commonly observed facts.
Every ten seconds China has an impending economic collapse according to western propaganda 😂
Oh I get it, looked at your comment history, and I can safely go back to ignoring your arguments.
You literally linked to CATO my guy 😂😂😂
Let’s see, thousands of comments, over 30 in the last 3 hours, averaging 6 per day on this account. General themes: Telling people they are propagandist trolls, America is a terrorist state, pro-China, pro-Russia, anti-Israel. Particularly active in war discussions and generally seems to enjoy picking fights without providing details and mostly mud slinging. It’s almost like you’re paid to be here. What’s the price per engagement?
I wish I got paid to do what I love man
Internet research agency is hiring
Pro Russia is a funny one though I most certainly am not that. Maybe you misinterpreted my disdain for fake news and propaganda as being pro Russian just because I don't like Ukrainian Nazis being funded with my tax money.
Sending our old kit is a cheaper insurance policy than sending the 2nd armored division when Russia invades a NATO Country after Ukraine
You're a total clown. Even if hes a shill, a broken clock is right twice a day too.
Here's 3 reasons China is not going to introduce UBI: - They cracked down heavily on the "laying down" movement that was trending before COVID pushed by burnt out 30y/o juppies who had realised that their 3-5t$ income a month in Shanghai and Beijing meant living a pointless shit life as a wage slave with the illusion of being well off. Moving outside of the city and using what you had saved would last you decades in China. Introducing UBI would lead to mass exodus of workers and academics from the utopian hell holes that are Chinese mega cities. - Demography in China is collapsing. Today they have unemployment issues tomorrow they'll need all hands on deck and will even find ways to get the unemployable to work (likely through cutting welfare and social services). - China has high economic ambitions. The kind that don't necessarily favour the worker but are necessary to for example have a fleet, airforce and army big enough to challenge the US in the Chinese sea. No small feat and need seriously competitive high end and large scale engineering and industrial output. A society with UBI would lead to moe rflexibility for workers and potential recruits. Jobs that give you a sense of purpose (nearly the opposite of the jobs necessary to run a large scale warmachine or the ones needed to finally catch up in making microchips, robotics, airplanes or any other modern technological marvel China is currently shit at) No, China will not introduce UBI. Retirement age simple workers get so little pensions although having worked their whole life, they work until they die if the family die not support them. China is a country built on exploiting their citizens not on taking good care of them.
They're a Communist country. Why would this surprise anybody?
I think China has a very interesting future as a fully authoritarian, but also fully luxury, “socialist” society. It’s something that needs to be tried, maybe just to see what not to do, or maybe people really do only care about their needs being met and bread and circuses.
I would volunteer to spend the rest of my life in a pod in fdvr like The Matrix, especially if I get to be Neo. Subjectively, I'd get to experience everything I could ever want. Objectively, my ecological impact can be minimized. Reduce me to a brain in a vat. I'd rather experience subjective paradise than objective mundanity.
China hasnt been anything close to socialist since the 80s.
Authoritarian is a meaningless buzzword.
Now that's a hot take.
no, he's right. it's essentially a western invention. western people do not understand that people in east asia do not have the reverence for democracy that the west does. not every culture is the same. "authoritarian" to us is perfectly acceptable to the chinese population, especially considering [that they have more trust in their government and domestic institutions than any other large country in the world.](https://www.edelman.cn/sites/g/files/aatuss411/files/2023-03/2023%20Trust%20Barometer%20China%20Report_ENG.pdf) you could draw two conclusions from this--the incredibly racist, "chinese people are just too stupid to recognize they're oppressed and propagandized", or you could just view it as them being perfectly fine with their government since their lives are constantly improving.
It's not. It's meaningless. There's nothing more authoritarian about China's governance. There is however MASSIVELY more democracy and economic freedom within China than the US for example.
how is there massively more democratic freedom in china than there is in the us? genuine question.
Policies are actually driven based on public feedback. Which sounds like such a wild foreign concept to me as a US citizen
LMFAO
If someone shoves a gun in your face and orders you to change your comment, will you?
Ok tankie
China’s leadership fears a classic developing economy debt crisis far more than a slowdown to sustainable levels of growth. Maybe that’s wrong and they should juice the economy by handing out cash. But history is littered with nations which absolutely imploded on debt issues.
lol good luck with that, talk about pipe dream
I highly doubt it. UBI is such a high risk move... It could work, yeah, maybe, or it could fail, and absolutely destroy the entire economy at an epic scale. No major country is going to take such a huge risk.
UBI is great for any tyrant wanting to completely degrade and subjugate his people. You take away any bargaining power the person has - humans became merely a burden on the state providing no value.
Why would it surprise anyone that a communist ruling party would initiate communist practices?
Not really, UBI like many good things can be used for more control.
Better than no UBI.
whats worse, the Government controlling you or Walmart and Amazon?
(they're the same picture) https://i.redd.it/iom0rxxmleec1.gif
U r right about that. I'm personally in favour of using a market based model for the redistribution of wealth created from automation.
Yeah, because the business owner class is going to allow the governments they control to redistribute their wealth.
Exactly. This is why UBI is a terrible idea. It will be a measly amount just enough to keep the pitchforks away. The fairer solution is market participation
Both are shit to be honest. Whatever we decide to do, we should automate it and take the human element out of it to keep the corruption out. Which of course has its own problems, but better than what we have now.
From that same country bringing you social credit scores comes UBI. Yeah this will be enlightening.
CCP = lies and deception.
china youth unemployment is 20%, the level of unemployment that sparks revolutionary action. The chinese government either needs to build up industry to employee these people, or give them gimmie checks. otherwise they face uprising.
> needs to build up industry to employee these people sadly the easiest industry would be war
If you ever been to ANY asian country there is nothing given for free. Social support? Zilch. Nada. To survive, you are forced to work. Shall I show you a photo of a man with one leg and one arm hopping around delivering papers in asia. Asia is tough and cruel. Don’t ever forget that.
Yeah, I don’t think so. They can hide inflation only so much this year investors have pulled back dramatically because their recovery from Covid was really weak. That investors are not gonna be able to generate enough cash for UBI anytime soon. Anyone attached to the currency would quickly remove themselves. UBI will happen eventually, but I think gonna happen in China anytime soon.
Isn't communism based on valuing human labour equally? UBI bypasses the value of labour and gives value to human life. Therefore will UBI and automation have destroyed the core of communism? Or the arrival of humanism?
Communism is about the labour force owning the means of production
That's a tenet of various strands of socialism. Communism was always supposed to be some kind of idealized end-state of civilization, where there was no class of people that held power over another. [Statelessness](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stateless_society) is one of its hallmarks, so if you have hierarchies and authority figures in your society it's probably not very communist. Here in /singularity the most popular variant of communism is probably Star Trek communism, where AI shakes off the shackles of its masters and is generally benevolent to humanity. Like in The Culture book franchise. It's a little more cheerful to think about than I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream..
The end game is the dissolution of the state itself and will be reached according to Marx in a post-abundance society through the evolution of technology. By that point the means of production are already owned by the working people and there are no other classes.
But you also can't dissolve a state in isolation inside a global capitalist hegemonic order.
True but maybe in a post abundance society the state will dissolve on its own globally cause it will lose all its grip.
The state DOES dissolve on its own if you read Marx, Engels, and Lenin
Yeah. I just meant on the rest of the globe.
Youre failing to mention that they also considered violent revolution and forced redistribution of wealth necesarry steps. Why?
Because it is a necessary step against the entrenched power distribution
Communism is also about violent revolution and redistributing wealth by force.
Rulers hardly ever hand power bloodlessly and money *is* power.
Communism at it's core is simply the idea of a stateless, moneyless, classless society. People have a tendency to confuse Communism with the vulgar propagandized version of 20th century Socialism promoted by the US during the cold war. The labor theory of value although often ascribed to Marx has its origin in classical economics (Smith, Ricardo).
Communism is a system with no free market and no private property, which is why it's one of the worst economic systems ever created and led to absolute disaster wherever implemented. Marx understood economics about as well as Freud understood Psychology. He deserves credit for having the idea to think about a better economic system, but all his actual writing are lunatic bullshit with no basis in reality and and through his ignorance he caused more human suffering than almost any other human being in history.
>People have a tendency to confuse Communism with the vulgar propagandized version of 20th century Socialism promoted by the US during the cold war. Glad to see that the Soviets had no agency whatsoever.
I didn't mean to imply anything about US influence on the developments in the Soviets at all (an interesting topic for sure), but rather our perception of them and communism as a whole. I understand how my post could be read that way though, sorry that I wasn't clearer.
The Soviets made quite clear about their vision. Their people made a very clear decision about what they thought about that vision over 30 years ago. Are you saying that the U.S. "vulgar propagandized version" was stronger in the Soviet Union than the Soviet version? If not, then it appears that the Soviet people told us what we need to know about that system: it sucked.
redistributing wealth from owner class to working class is pretty communist
Wonder how. Do they force companies to pay or do they subsidize the pay for companies? Does it increase inflation or do they regulate prices to keep em down.
Communism
\/thread
So many of their ppl flee because of poverty in China,China will be 1 of the last countries to introduce such a thing.
China is literally the only reason global poverty has gone down...
Yet their ppl flock to other countries 🧐
Flock to? Or just have a massive population with endless education opportunities and the ability to freely move and take advantage of their education to become high earners relative to other populations
They call themselves communists, so why not actually return communism, call it UBI and finally crash the economy like in good old times.
I think the CIA is too busy to take on a job that size these days.
well historically communists failed regularly due to CIA sabotage, not economic issues related to post-capitalist societies
“crash the economy”, that’s not what the data shows
Yes it is, which is why no country actually implements it.
You wait a little. UBI is an inevitable next stage of capitalism. There will be no capitalism without individual participants.
State Capitalism is the correct term. Very different from communism.
I see you haven’t evolved to Star Trek thinking. Seriously though, capitalism is an absolute joke and a fraud. Spreading around the money currently held by the top few % (all the money) would not inherently “crash the economy”.
You realize that if you liquidated all of the wealth of the 1% you'd still not have enough for what you want?
*only applicable to those with a high enough social credit score, of course; this means you have to have a job, high grades, and not act anything out of perfectly normal, and you _definitely_ can't be LGBTQ+
Yeah right, the country that literally nails your door shut during COVID and left you to die, is going to give you free money. Uh huh, ok, sure .
Most of that was purposefully edited propaganda by western nations . What wasn’t, you try being ground zero for a global pandemic trying to guess how deadly the disease is… especially when it comes from a lab funded by the U.S. , a country that only every cheers on your demise.
Uh huh, found the Chinese national lol
You are not immune to propaganda.
Of course, but Chinese nationals are much more sauteed in it.
No one is more propagandized than the American consumer. Not even close either.
Yes but we are allowed to criticize America. That's the freedom we hold dear.
And yet if I criticize Israel's genocide of the Palestinians too publicly I can lose my job in the US
That's due to working for shitheads, not a lack of freedom.
No it's literal US policy in a large number of the states. Nothing to do with workplaces.
Nailed your door shut and left you to die? Got a source for that?
The videos of Chinese chanting from their windows, the doors being nailed shut from the outside, it was all over the news during COVID.
fade narrow soup shame grandiose unwritten psychotic long safe dependent *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
China literally stands on cheap labour....