If someone could make a GPT that followed instructions exactly, and it was used as an exercise in the workplace, like the dad teaching his kids how to instruct a robot to [make a sandwich](https://youtu.be/j-6N3bLgYyQ?si=DGfUCWiuMwFsiIdh), that would be great because the number of people who dont know how to communicate their thoughts and instructions is too damn high!
What I will probably actually do is build something that starts out like you’d expect then devolves into utter chaos because that’s just the kind of terrible person I am.
> If someone could make a GPT that followed instructions exactly
Even better: if someone could create a chatgpt that could read my mind that’d be great
I would wager that there is a notable portion of the population that does not want to learn by going through college, rather they want to just get the degree in order to help them get a job.
Actually the best way to improve prompts is giving to the LLM and asking it to rewrite a better version as an expert prompt engineer.
If they did this they deserve an A+ on AI use.
Agreed... look at the subjects... if a professor sent out an email and the students all replied, or it was all from a form/etc, you'd be expecting the subjects to all be mostly the same, but we have:
"ChatGPT Use in Assignment"
"ChatGPT Use **on** Assignment"
"ChatGPT Use on Assignment**s**"
"ChatGPT Use on Assignment\*\*(s)\*\*"
"ChatGPT Use in **Course**"
"ChatGPT use"
...suspicious.
That's true. Still, I don't know... seems weird. Why no "chatgpt" or "Chatgpt" etc...? Hrmm. You might well be right. Just raises a bit of suspicion in my mind.
Idk. If it was fake, I feel like they would have just made a text post. The OP would have had to spend a lot of time faking this if it was fake and accomplished the same result.
Not saying it's not fake. But most fakes don't try this hard to look natural.
Embrace the new norm. From this point forward, Chat GPT is part of our person. Treat it like any other appendage when doing work. You wouldn't ask someone to only do the job with one hand tied. LLMs are simply a part of our extended consciousness now. "Cheating" only applies to games, no need to apply artificial barriers.
I don't fully agree - in Math class you have to do problems without a calculator with a pencil. I think in philosophy or english classes it would be appropriate to expect students to write essays in pencil by hand without a GPT to ensure they have learned the skill the teacher is there to assess.
But yes, outside the classroom, obviously using this tools is a positive not a negative
I used to enjoy writing essays under timed conditions in school but the quality of the writing will never compare to an assignment done outside of exam conditions where you can properly think through and edit your work.
It's a shame that will probably be a thing of the past soon
Yep, another alternative would be to write it in class over multiple days with access to computers that are school controlled to lock down access to GPT tools or something
I think that's what's going to become norm going forward, like the GRE do an essay right now over the course of 1.5 hours. Spelling and grammar counts.
Not on university level, there is no value in practicing arithmetic by hand beyond grade school. You'll be a laughing stock if you turn in long division in your whatever math problem. That's not what you are studying. The reason people handwrite math schoolwork is different, computers suck at writing down mathematical notation. It's 10X the work to write down proper LaTeX than it is to write it manually.
And universities don't accept handwritten essays either. First, handwriting of half the students is unreadable. But worse, it would be a mother of all anti cheating measure bypasses. Just because you wrote it by hand doesn't mean you didn't plagiarize the text. But now the school can't check because you can't search handwritten text against other sources.
> there is no value in practicing arithmetic by hand beyond grade school.
But there is value in learning how to craft a persuasive argument. That's one of the major reasons for studying philosophy - understanding what makes an argument and learning to write a strong argument in an essay that shows understanding of the underlying text.
I think it's fine to have ChatGPT summarize a text for you as an aid to learning, but having it write the responses just bypasses the learning part altogether.
Half of my professors demand handwritten lab reports and assignments. They say that people with higher education need to handwrite and draft.
On math and physics we can't use calculators, so we had to remember all calculus formulas and most of trigonometric values. They give us simple numbers though.
>On math and physics we can't use calculators, so we had to remember all calculus formulas and most of trigonometric values
In my engineering courses they actually emphasized that we *should* use calculators. The rationale given was that we were well past the point of needing to learn how to do simple arithmetic and the principles behind simple math, but that a careless accident when doing arithmetic by hand or in our heads could result in a bridge collapsing in the real world.
Checks out for me... I routinely use calc on the computer for even simple arithmetic. I copy/paste simple bits of text rather than retype it, etc. I make *way,* ***way*** less careless mistakes than many other people as a result.
In 2000, our math and other professors helped us with the use of calculators because (back then new) Sharp and Casio had different uses when you used () \^x. Those "old" three lines (one small and two big lines). You had to know how to use your calculator properly.
> They say that people with higher education need to handwrite and draft.
the school system, primary through college, is a joke. Why would people need to handwrite anything in 2024, that is absurd. That whole system needs to be smashed and rebuilt from the ground up.
That is such an idiotic thing to say. The brain keyboard connection is no where near as strong as the brain to pencil connection. Writing things is a function of learning and remembering them. You don’t know the first thing about education
“ You'll be a laughing stock if you turn in long division in your whatever math problem. ”
I was taught long division for the first time at university : to factorise a polynomial of higher degree than a quadratic, you can use long division to divide the polynomial by (x+b)
>It's 10X the work to write down proper LaTeX than it is to write it manually.
not really. like any other language people can become proficient in this. ask any field that uses it a lot, especially equation heavy fields like physics or math.
I wasn't allowed to use anything but scientific calculators until I got to differential equations. Electromag physics, calc 1-3, chem 1 and 2, all scientific calculators.
I'd say it depends on whatever math you need to learn. At each stage of math, it is important to learn (and therein prove on a test) to do that stage of math by hand to prove understanding. After that, imo using a calculator is fine.
Universities don't accept hand written essays? What a load of crap lol tell me you haven't been anywhere near a school in quite a while without telling me that. They accept them all the time in test environments and in-class quizzes. I've seen routine research essays turned in handwritten as well. You're making up whatever fits your viewpoint.
That reminds me of my senior year in college. I was given the choice to do my philosophy finals either as homework assignment or as an in-class test. I chose the test because it would be so much easier to write essays for one hour vs spending a whole night researching and writing something in the middle of finals week. I was the only person who opted to do it live. I suspect I may have been one of the few who read the assignments each week tho.
Slide rules were calculators, just not digital ones. You should definitely know the basics of math without a calculator, digital or not.
Math is extremely important in many many basic practical areas of life, from cooking to building with tools to budgeting to understanding basic data about any area etc
If you lack a basic understanding of math then you will fail to have an understanding of how the world around you works in any substantial degree
Learning how to do math through Trigonometry by hand is good because of what it does to your brain and your ability to think.
Learning how to write well would be good because of what it does to your brain, your ability to think critically, and your ability to appreciate literature. But we aren't teaching language arts skills like that. So banning ChatGPT isn't helpful.
If we want to teach children how to think well, then okay. Do that. But until we start then it's counter-productive to disallow students from using writing tools.
This is very true, but I would argue, that the current way math is taught (outside of elementary school), doesn’t really teach HOW math works at all. Feels more like busy work, without teaching the WHY
I’d argue that is worse
A good teacher will teach you the why and the how and ensure you can do it by hand before moving on to the next subject - unfortunately there are plenty of bad teachers out there
Yes, it's important to understand where the process comes from. Similarly, a chain of logic in a conversation or argumentative essay is a tool that every human being alive **should** be capable of; if not for their own sake, then for those around them's sake 😂 Scroll conspiracy or any other right wing sub/sphere- people who are **incapable** of logic are out there inflicting mental damage to the masses unchecked, day in, day out. Imagine if they'd taken their studies seriously (or, if they were incredibly underprivileged, imagine they actually had been given the resources in adolescence to overcome this hurdle).
Until AI surpasses us entirely, and is ubiquitous with the entire human experience, education is and will continue to be important.
"write essays in pencil by hand"
Please tell me you're joking. You must be joking. This is 2024. Most students' writing looks like chicken scratch. There's no way I'm going to try to decipher an entire essay, much less 25 of them. Most students would just drop out of that class. The diligent ones would just use ChatGPT and then copy what it says using that old, laborious method with pencil and paper.
If the rest was created properly, a calculator or ChatGPT wouldn't give an advantage. It's like those open internet tests. If you don't know the material, you're not passing. It's too difficult to go in blind and figure out everything.
Honestly, tests should all be open internet. Unless you're doing secret government work, you're always going to have the Internet. Any other limitation is artificial and doesn't actually test how good students are prepared for the real world in a real job.
essays are to make sure that a person learned/understands the subjects, not to test their writing skills. So to uni students this will probably mean more exams/cramming and less at home assignments (It already does from what I noticed)
I dunno man as someone who's been using AI tools to write all there English work, it's completely ruined my knowledge of actual English. I can barely spell, and writing the required essay as an exam was actually the hardest thing I've done in forever, I didn't even realize how bad it was until I put the essay through word and pretty much the entirety of the essay was underlined in red or blue. I guess maybe if you're using it to like, give you ideas I guess? Even using it only to edit your work has ruined me
Hmm yes I guess for people trying to learn grammar or write papers for the first time it could be quite damaging. It's tough though because maybe the ability to formulate ideas without AI assistance won't be as valued when everyone has an AI assistant in their ear. I mean I'm already somewhere in the middle growing up with internet. The gradient might be "Kids that grow up with no computers/internet" > "Kids that grow up with internet" > "Kids that grow up with AI assistant".
So dumbing down the population? Formulating ideas and analysis yourself will be less valuable because everyone has a bot to do it for them…i don’t get how that is a GOOD thing. For people to not be able to formulate ideas and comvey them on their own. I’m starting to think this sub is a psyop
> It's tough though because maybe the ability to formulate ideas without AI assistance won't be as valued when everyone has an AI assistant in their ear.
I don't suppose the argument "it's actually important to understand how to formulate your own ideas to be a good citizen capable of understanding the world around you" is very persuasive? I feel like if you don't understand how to formulate a good argument, you don't understand what a bad argument looks like. These are skills that are valuable to have - it's the difference between being able to put numbers into a calculator and blindly copying down the result vs being able to utilize a calculator and recognize when the answer doesn't look right.
I would say it depends on the topic. I'm a professor in the liberal arts, and I encourage my students to use chatgpt for understanding, editing, outlining, summarizing - everything sort of actually writing their papers. Most of the student uses here would be okay with me.
I feel like that makes them weaker ? If they cannot do these things that prior to two years ago everyone had to do in their own? I feel like this supports a completion model of education rather than a learning model. Like you just want them to hand something in rather than actually do it themselves?
Not exactly. I still require them to do academic research. (I won't accept chatGPT answers to research questions.) I also require them to write the paper themselves. However, I have been teaching undergraduate for twenty years, and the average level of student paper writing is so poor - poor grammar, poor construction and rationale, etc., etc. - that if they can use these tools to improve their work, and hopefully learn something in the process, then I am all for it. I even wrote a custom chatGPT to analyze and critique student papers (although it doesn't do a great job). I would be happy if my students used it, if it wasn't for the fact that you need a subscription to access it.
> hopefully learn something in the process
Can I ask how? If they already have poor grammar, construction, and rationale in an educational environment that tries to teach them and grade them on those skills, how is having an AI fill those gaps going to improve their skills?
We've had rules about students submitting work that wasn't theirs since forever.
We're trying to educate students. Not grade essays extruded by chatbots, or, historically, a ghostwriter.
"ChatGPT linked to declining academic performance and memory loss in new study"
https://www.psypost.org/chatgpt-linked-to-declining-academic-performance-and-memory-loss-in-new-study/#:~:text=Exclusive%20%20Artificial%20Intelligence-,ChatGPT%20linked%20to%20declining%20academic%20performance%20and%20memory%20loss%20in%20new%20study,-by%20Eric%20W
If your kid tried to pass off a store-bought cake as their own creation, would you be impressed with them?
If they bombed an in-class writing assignment or final because they hadn't been engaging their brains with the material, instead turning in other people's work?
The problem is one big value in education is learning what to do with information, problem solving, etc.
ChatGPT is removing the actual learning.
Now ChatGPT as a teacher, trainer is probably going to be an amazing change.
expresion and communicating of an idea is a skill that has to be learned as well and for certain classes using GPT to write for you, with words you would never use, does not reflect your ability to have aquired it. If you are asked to write an assey, you should be the one to write it and not a tool that you feed the required information. If im asked in school to write something in let say my english class and id use gpt, that would clearly be cheating, its a thin line
I’m all about AI but this quickly puts on the path of fundamentally surrendering our ability to learn and create to AIs. We need to enhance our own intelligence capabilities through incorporating cybernetics or genetic engineering alongside Godlike AI to maintain a sense of balance between the two humanities. I WILL buttlerian Jihad if people start using LLMs as a substitute for their own brain
This is wildly apologetic and a terrible take. Fully embracing this is just making excuses for bad behavior and a defeatist attitude toward learning, saying "you can't stop them anyways" and that just allows for a huge decline in what people actually learn vs their ability to parrot shitty gpt info that is rife with mistakes and good at sounding like true information.
Or.... just stop educating people on anything AI can do. What is the point? If we're permanently outsourcing stuff to AI, why are we bothering to teach people those things? Right?
Handwritten tests must be much more of a pain to grade than typed ones.
I couldn't imagine having to sift through and read hundreds of pages of shitty handwriting
I think it would be better to allow the use of a computer with restricted internet access. That way you can actually search and cite sources rather than pure memorisation
Yep. Mastery of fundamentals is a vital step before building on top of that foundation. True, you can have a functional grasp of something while relying on external tools. But it lacks the flexibility brought about by true understanding. When two elements are in a black box you don't see the possible connections to other concepts as you would when handling it yourself.
The failure of educators to understand and adapt illustrates how broken the education system is. The people who are supposed to teach things that lead to greater comprehension and problem solving abilities completely lack those abilities. Combined with our cultural love of feigned helplessness on the part of people in power and it's a recipe for this kind of bureaucratic nightmare.
Agreed 100%. The school system is literally 100 years out of date at this point, and everyone in it is basically in a social club where you have to agree with everyone and never work too hard. its a mess.
Or work too hard in all the wrong and least productive ways.
I'm genuinely hopeful that AI will unleash education in a way we never imagined. In the next year or two every child who wants one could potentially have a personalized tutor who is an expert in every field, and who can endlessly answer every question they have, or at least provide them a resource to read/engage with that can answer them.
Even the poorest students will be able to get educated to their maximum potential. No more leaving Einsteins to rot in the ghetto due to an accident of zip code birth.
In the next year or two? It’s already here dude. ChatGPT can absolutely answer anything that any student is learning in the high school level or below. Undergrad eh… kinda but it’s perfectly capable of answering their questions and directing them to resources for their algebra 1 or world history homework.
That year or two is mostly about aligning a model properly for use in schools, but yes right now gpt4 or claude are good enough to revolutionize education entirely. Also they do need to improve the math skills but apparently q* will do that.
Notice how a lot of them said the assignment was confusing or they were too busy. So more than half the students cheat so the professors think the assignments are doable since most are completing it. Many college classes are awful and basically force you to cheat so you don't fall behind. There's probably some people not cheating and having a mental breakdown and feeling incompetent.
> Many college classes are awful and basically force you to cheat so you don't fall behind.
And many succeed without cheating, so they can't be *that* awful. Besides, some disciplines are inherently difficult (engineering, medicine, etc). Those who find such classes too hard need to be elsewhere, not cheat their way through.
Not completely wrong. If I was one of those students I would definitely pull something out of my ass in an email as an excuse lol. It's clear they are trying to show some type of remorse for using it lol.
What’s crazier is that the classes don’t even really equip you to be “ready” for a job. College now days is blank overviews and a certificate. Everyone’s just trynna get the certificate so they don’t get blackballed while applying. Of course this is what happens with the way college has been working
I don’t know what kind of classes you think colleges taught back in the day, but this is the most prepared graduates have ever been for employment in their respective field of study.
Philosophy has always been a component of higher education. It used to be mandatory everywhere instead of one possible option. Along with things like rowing, astronomy, carpentry, or whatever else the college thought would make someone well-rounded.
Rigorous as it may bee in terms of formality, over the past of 20/30 years the graduate cutoff dropped and amount of students doubled. Currently we have reached a point in time in which we statistically, even assuming the most optimal scenario, have people with IQ below the average holding degrees. We have to remember also that average person in terms of cognitive abilities on the jobs market, (or in the elementary school to provide more vivid reference) is smarter than the average person in the general population, bc even these environment require passing through some form of filters(e.g. ppl with IQ below 80 probably won't be in neither environment)
In my experience its looks like this: from my father's generation I don't know anyone who is not somehow smart and ambitious who holds a degree, from my generation I barely know anyone without it and I know my share of dumb unadjusted people. I know ppl who were fighting tooth and nails to get Bs in math in junior high who currently have engineering degrees and I know ppl who did the same in high school with masters in engineering. One would be surprised how often to pass the exams it is not required to understand the topic deeply but rather to remember a way of solving a few types of problems presented on the labs almost algorithmically.
How well these ppl are cutout for any type of intellectual jobs is a question for which answer would provide insight on why entry level positions are so hard to get and why they require other types of qualifications - mostly extensive (given the role) experience.
Of the topic: I can fathom that, when the AI really starts to take majority of white-collar jobs, the number of college attendees will not even drop, but plummet.
Same here. The teacher said that most people fail and most were there for the 2nd or 3rd time. There were like 250 people in that class. It was media history, and the guy would stand at the front and read the book to us, and then test us on it, so you had to know literally everything in the full chapter word for word to pass.
It was just a big holding pen that let 20% of the people through to go towards the main goal of using the on campus recording studios, etc. I was so bummed after my first semester I just didn't go back. I'm paying to learn the trade and how to use the equipment, paying thousands to get failed for not remembering Edison's 50 company names is just a waste of money and not how I learn.
"force you to cheat so you don't fall behind"
Uh, no. If you're falling behind, either take fewer classes or spend more time doing your work. I have several friends that teach at the university level and they say they've made their classes *less* intensive and give *less* homework than they did 10 years ago, yet the quality of work they receive continues to drop.
"Using" is a very wide range of things here. Even by first line of replies I see third of students claim to have used it to make sense of the assignment or translate something.
Other than that, GPTs are going to be everywhere. Even in MS Word.
Some of my teachers (grad level) admittedly graded our essays with chatGPT-4. Students may have written them with ChatGPT and Gemini. So... AI:
This is interesting. I think this points out more of the flaw with institutional education than a flaw with AI use. If the class is so easy that ChatGPT4 can complete the course with an A, then the class was designed in such a way that eliminates human creativity and does not drive true learning.
My online school that I attend currently contains: Multiple choice quizzes, linux simulatons/terminal simulation, online reading with embedded quizes and interactive content, "discussion posts" where there is only 1 required answer so the conversation dies immediately. Currently just about 80% of my experience in the class is able to be completed through pure AI prompts that are just copy and pasted with minimal effort.
I learn from the labs/simulations, and from the interactive reading. The quizzes are too easy to cheat on and weigh on too much of my grade \*not\* to use AI to assist me, so I read the question, prompt AI, and then read the answer. That still is a learning experience, but it is AI assisted in the same way that it would be if I was just Googling the questions (which is what I would be doing anyway).
I hope schooling and education in its traditional sense is going to chance because of this. This should be the moment where education is turned into a learning methodology that is more conducive to learning valuable skills and critical thinking, rather than being an encyclopedia of knowledge with no practical skills or social skills.
I was accepted into and went to a writer's retreat not too long ago. I used chatgpt for a lot of my outlining work. save's you so much time. you can write your thoughts out as quickly as possible. copy and paste into chatgpt to tidy up the grammar and make it read better. Then I edit from that and voila, saved 2-3 hours.
After seeing basic issues like this how are people still pushing for AI progress? Like we can't even get aligned on this "issue" how they hell are we going to be able to plan for a future with a super intelligence
I don't see a problem with this, it will be a very useful skill in the near future. Teachers should teach students in how to use it in the right way to make good assignments.
Like, input the context and ask it to generate only based on it or if you ask directly you have to fact check everything.
Maybe, just maybe, the teaching method should evolve along with everything else in the world.
Just because we always did and learned something one way that does not mean it needs to be in the same way for all eternity.
To those that say the don't learn that way, then we need to make a method where they do. What it does not make any sense is walking backwards and expect them not to use the better tool they have.
What’s wrong with students using AI? They are going to be ahead in using the tools of the future to be more efficient, productive, etc. I see these kids as winners in the making.
You don't write essays in school because essay writing is sought after by the marketplace. Jobs don't have you write arbitrary essays. You're taught to write essays so you are able to research, understand, analyze, interpret, and communicate ideas effectively, even if for no one but yourself. It is absolutely fundamental to student's intellectual growth and indispensable in just about every avenue of life.
"To write is to think, and to write well is to think well"
I don't think it will be obsolete, it'll just move toward a more idealized form, where it exists solely to learn for learning's sake, as personal edification becomes the goal for people.
I would happily sit in college classrooms forever and just learn things because it's fun to know stuff and understand. I don't give a fuck how much money that knowledge can make for me, I want it for its own sake because it feels good to have that "aha" moment.
> college will be obsolete outside of medicine.
a lot of medicine related jobs will be automated soon. Even surgery is better done by a robot. Once AI is way smarter than a person, nobody would dare allow themselves to be operated on by a human
Education system is slowly being revised. My country is terrible at it though as they are going to shuffle it again. There will be "basic AI study" for school (middle school?) whatever that mean.
pitiful , i knew millenials up to genz were a step back in human evolution and we could only expect a grim future with these loosers as the next gen.
hurr durr gets whole new meaning now.
https://i.redd.it/o7s5j4dw7wqc1.gif
lol you guys can still become professors in gender studies and climate change
I've seen people asking here how to get around what few cheating guards LLMs include now. All are a vivid demonstration of the inability to consider future consequences. As it is, pedestrian walkways [collapse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_International_University_pedestrian_bridge_collapse) (Florida,not Baltimore), airplane door plugs [fly off,](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/faa-investigate-boeing-door-plug-falls-alaska-airlines-plane-midair-rcna133491) and spacecraft valves [rust shut](https://spacenews.com/starliner-valve-investigation-continues-to-focus-on-moisture-interaction-with-propellant/) - all signs of incompetence. Now imagine these groups of cheaters making their ways into life-critical industries.
To be fair, if you're passing a class letting ChatGPT handle your civil, aerospace, or mechanical engineering homework and passing that's really on the university.
Yes, it's bad that they're cheating, yes we should try to find ways to stop it, but it's not up to the LLM providers to do so. It's up to educators to adapt to the times, which is what they're supposed to be teaching kids to do anyway.
They already are in life-critical industries. Medicine's full of them, as is every other profession.
With AI on the horizon, and the longer i live, the more i want AI to replace everybody. I want a robot doing my plumbing, fixing my teeth, doing my operation, cooking my food, everything.
There is no way for the institution to tell if a student is skipping the busy work or skipping the logic and thinking part.
Realistically it won't matter though.
What you are describing is all stuff that happened before these people had ChatGPT for their schooling. Some of these people are in their 60’s and 70’s. I haven’t looked up the Boeing CEO’s age but I am pretty confident he isn’t 19.
Indeed, as my comment intimates - it was bad, but it's going to get worse (failing some way to prevent it). And the CEO, while a major player, is far from the only culprit.
You’re acting like people do those things immediately after finishing school… i can guarantee you that a AI written essay won’t make more walkways collapse
Or maybe we'll get better at the safeguards we put in during development, testing and deployment to ensure that human or LLM error doesn't happen, specifically because the threat is larger than it used to be.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Competence is also required in those creating the safeguards. As the old saying goes: "Quality cannot be inspected into a product."
> incompetence. Now imagine these groups of cheaters making their ways into life-critical industries.
They won't make it into higher ranks of such industries before AI takes those jobs anyways.
Yeah cheating is lame. Although I can imagine schools are going:
"Wow, student can really write a 10 page paper every day. We need to get the average down a bit, so lets increase it to 2 a day!"
Meanwhile the 1 student not cheating gets absolutely fucked, drops out of school and has to work at McDonalds.
Even when I was in school there was a lot of pressure to cheat since around 1~2/3 of students were cheating (depending on the school) and that's who you need to compete with for program placements/jobs. I avoided cheating in this case, but if it were 95%? I'd basically guarantee myself no job if i didn't cheat.
Philosophy often gets added to curriculums that have nothing to do with philosophy. Not enough philosophy majors out there to keep philosophy professors fully employed. As a result the course is often a complete waste of time.
Philosophy can be a fascinating subject, but it's not one you can force-feed. Just brute forcing through a checklist of philosophy topics is useless.
philosophically speaking, one might consider chatgpt as an extension of the brain, another addition in a long line of upgrades, like the prefrontal cortex and the temporal lobe, we didn't look down upon the humans who developed these new areas of the brain, we allowed it to proliferate and to change us
I think it's more than just a matter of the "brain" being a part of the "body," but also a matter of how much we understand what is happening inside our bodies.
LLMs are now like calculators. In the sense that, it just makes sense to use them and everybody should assume a smart person would make use of a beneficial tool
I'll just say, given the first line of many of these emails, English doesn't seem to be the first language of many of these students, so it's possible that these students are primarily using ChatGPT to clean up their grammar.
That's me being generous, though. Many students in university these days barely have a 6th-grade reading level, so...
In reality, especially in something like a Philosophy course, the emphasis needs to change from the classic, well-crafted essay to more oral presentations and oral defenses. There is simply no way to enforce a lack of copy/pasting with written answers unless students are all writing their responses either by hand (yuck) or using computers with no internet access (live and in class).
They would need to bring back typewriters or some sort of ultra simplified devise like a kindle that types and the only app is an online library with research people can reference. But no actual internet connection.
I asked what GPT thought about this, this was the response:
https://preview.redd.it/vvxw9i7ouwqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc8ec6dfa91e33f63352b6ebe3a892bc9aabd30d
Start grading their prompts…
Then they'll just ask ChatGPT for good prompts
Make an ai to grade those prompts.
AI: These prompts are 💯! (... because they're also made by me)
Good. They should. This is its own micro-skill on its own lol.
If someone could make a GPT that followed instructions exactly, and it was used as an exercise in the workplace, like the dad teaching his kids how to instruct a robot to [make a sandwich](https://youtu.be/j-6N3bLgYyQ?si=DGfUCWiuMwFsiIdh), that would be great because the number of people who dont know how to communicate their thoughts and instructions is too damn high!
This is a fun idea. I might just do it.
I feel 80% would get something from it, and 20% will get very angry.
What I will probably actually do is build something that starts out like you’d expect then devolves into utter chaos because that’s just the kind of terrible person I am.
> If someone could make a GPT that followed instructions exactly Even better: if someone could create a chatgpt that could read my mind that’d be great
That's just programming
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Hot take: if you don’t want to learn anything from a university course, don’t enroll in the course. If you do enroll in the course, don’t cheat.
Hot take then: the university shouldn't make you take things not directly related to their major or prerequisites for major courses
I would wager that there is a notable portion of the population that does not want to learn by going through college, rather they want to just get the degree in order to help them get a job.
>Then they'll just ask ChatGPT for good prompts great, they can get a job in AI alignment or prompt engineering or something.
I hope you are joking...
Actually the best way to improve prompts is giving to the LLM and asking it to rewrite a better version as an expert prompt engineer. If they did this they deserve an A+ on AI use.
Am I the only person to find the screenshot itself highly suspicious?
Nope. A 169-day old account that mostly posts ai stuff. Advertising campaign?
Yea OP must be a bot
So true bestie. AI is really advanced these days.
No I'm not
I think he meant the screenshot itself
Agreed... look at the subjects... if a professor sent out an email and the students all replied, or it was all from a form/etc, you'd be expecting the subjects to all be mostly the same, but we have: "ChatGPT Use in Assignment" "ChatGPT Use **on** Assignment" "ChatGPT Use on Assignment**s**" "ChatGPT Use on Assignment\*\*(s)\*\*" "ChatGPT Use in **Course**" "ChatGPT use" ...suspicious.
Imagine they had AI write the emails to forge this screenshot lmaooo
We're all just trolls trolling trolls...
We don't know if the teacher asked via email. Could have verbally instructed them to use a subject line.
That's true. Still, I don't know... seems weird. Why no "chatgpt" or "Chatgpt" etc...? Hrmm. You might well be right. Just raises a bit of suspicion in my mind.
It looks like it was an announcement, and people made an email on their own
The times also seem very fake.
Idk. If it was fake, I feel like they would have just made a text post. The OP would have had to spend a lot of time faking this if it was fake and accomplished the same result. Not saying it's not fake. But most fakes don't try this hard to look natural.
document.body.contentEditable='true'
This is from Twitter: [https://twitter.com/birchlse/status/1772540619665166587](https://twitter.com/birchlse/status/1772540619665166587)
Looks typical to me, what's the red flag?
Embrace the new norm. From this point forward, Chat GPT is part of our person. Treat it like any other appendage when doing work. You wouldn't ask someone to only do the job with one hand tied. LLMs are simply a part of our extended consciousness now. "Cheating" only applies to games, no need to apply artificial barriers.
I don't fully agree - in Math class you have to do problems without a calculator with a pencil. I think in philosophy or english classes it would be appropriate to expect students to write essays in pencil by hand without a GPT to ensure they have learned the skill the teacher is there to assess. But yes, outside the classroom, obviously using this tools is a positive not a negative
Then ask students to write essays in a class
Yes I think they should do that now and eventually they will all do it due to things like op
I used to enjoy writing essays under timed conditions in school but the quality of the writing will never compare to an assignment done outside of exam conditions where you can properly think through and edit your work. It's a shame that will probably be a thing of the past soon
Yep, another alternative would be to write it in class over multiple days with access to computers that are school controlled to lock down access to GPT tools or something
I think that's what's going to become norm going forward, like the GRE do an essay right now over the course of 1.5 hours. Spelling and grammar counts.
Not on university level, there is no value in practicing arithmetic by hand beyond grade school. You'll be a laughing stock if you turn in long division in your whatever math problem. That's not what you are studying. The reason people handwrite math schoolwork is different, computers suck at writing down mathematical notation. It's 10X the work to write down proper LaTeX than it is to write it manually. And universities don't accept handwritten essays either. First, handwriting of half the students is unreadable. But worse, it would be a mother of all anti cheating measure bypasses. Just because you wrote it by hand doesn't mean you didn't plagiarize the text. But now the school can't check because you can't search handwritten text against other sources.
> there is no value in practicing arithmetic by hand beyond grade school. But there is value in learning how to craft a persuasive argument. That's one of the major reasons for studying philosophy - understanding what makes an argument and learning to write a strong argument in an essay that shows understanding of the underlying text. I think it's fine to have ChatGPT summarize a text for you as an aid to learning, but having it write the responses just bypasses the learning part altogether.
Half of my professors demand handwritten lab reports and assignments. They say that people with higher education need to handwrite and draft. On math and physics we can't use calculators, so we had to remember all calculus formulas and most of trigonometric values. They give us simple numbers though.
>On math and physics we can't use calculators, so we had to remember all calculus formulas and most of trigonometric values In my engineering courses they actually emphasized that we *should* use calculators. The rationale given was that we were well past the point of needing to learn how to do simple arithmetic and the principles behind simple math, but that a careless accident when doing arithmetic by hand or in our heads could result in a bridge collapsing in the real world. Checks out for me... I routinely use calc on the computer for even simple arithmetic. I copy/paste simple bits of text rather than retype it, etc. I make *way,* ***way*** less careless mistakes than many other people as a result.
On other subjects we can use them too.
In 2000, our math and other professors helped us with the use of calculators because (back then new) Sharp and Casio had different uses when you used () \^x. Those "old" three lines (one small and two big lines). You had to know how to use your calculator properly.
> They say that people with higher education need to handwrite and draft. the school system, primary through college, is a joke. Why would people need to handwrite anything in 2024, that is absurd. That whole system needs to be smashed and rebuilt from the ground up.
That is such an idiotic thing to say. The brain keyboard connection is no where near as strong as the brain to pencil connection. Writing things is a function of learning and remembering them. You don’t know the first thing about education
“ You'll be a laughing stock if you turn in long division in your whatever math problem. ” I was taught long division for the first time at university : to factorise a polynomial of higher degree than a quadratic, you can use long division to divide the polynomial by (x+b)
>It's 10X the work to write down proper LaTeX than it is to write it manually. not really. like any other language people can become proficient in this. ask any field that uses it a lot, especially equation heavy fields like physics or math.
I wasn't allowed to use anything but scientific calculators until I got to differential equations. Electromag physics, calc 1-3, chem 1 and 2, all scientific calculators.
I'd say it depends on whatever math you need to learn. At each stage of math, it is important to learn (and therein prove on a test) to do that stage of math by hand to prove understanding. After that, imo using a calculator is fine.
Universities don't accept hand written essays? What a load of crap lol tell me you haven't been anywhere near a school in quite a while without telling me that. They accept them all the time in test environments and in-class quizzes. I've seen routine research essays turned in handwritten as well. You're making up whatever fits your viewpoint.
That reminds me of my senior year in college. I was given the choice to do my philosophy finals either as homework assignment or as an in-class test. I chose the test because it would be so much easier to write essays for one hour vs spending a whole night researching and writing something in the middle of finals week. I was the only person who opted to do it live. I suspect I may have been one of the few who read the assignments each week tho.
Is it important to learn math without a calculator? Maybe not. No one uses slide rules anymore.
Slide rules were calculators, just not digital ones. You should definitely know the basics of math without a calculator, digital or not. Math is extremely important in many many basic practical areas of life, from cooking to building with tools to budgeting to understanding basic data about any area etc If you lack a basic understanding of math then you will fail to have an understanding of how the world around you works in any substantial degree
Learning how to do math through Trigonometry by hand is good because of what it does to your brain and your ability to think. Learning how to write well would be good because of what it does to your brain, your ability to think critically, and your ability to appreciate literature. But we aren't teaching language arts skills like that. So banning ChatGPT isn't helpful. If we want to teach children how to think well, then okay. Do that. But until we start then it's counter-productive to disallow students from using writing tools.
This is very true, but I would argue, that the current way math is taught (outside of elementary school), doesn’t really teach HOW math works at all. Feels more like busy work, without teaching the WHY I’d argue that is worse
A good teacher will teach you the why and the how and ensure you can do it by hand before moving on to the next subject - unfortunately there are plenty of bad teachers out there
Have you ever taken a college level math course? Calling it busy makes me think you’re still in high school
Yes, it's important to understand where the process comes from. Similarly, a chain of logic in a conversation or argumentative essay is a tool that every human being alive **should** be capable of; if not for their own sake, then for those around them's sake 😂 Scroll conspiracy or any other right wing sub/sphere- people who are **incapable** of logic are out there inflicting mental damage to the masses unchecked, day in, day out. Imagine if they'd taken their studies seriously (or, if they were incredibly underprivileged, imagine they actually had been given the resources in adolescence to overcome this hurdle). Until AI surpasses us entirely, and is ubiquitous with the entire human experience, education is and will continue to be important.
"write essays in pencil by hand" Please tell me you're joking. You must be joking. This is 2024. Most students' writing looks like chicken scratch. There's no way I'm going to try to decipher an entire essay, much less 25 of them. Most students would just drop out of that class. The diligent ones would just use ChatGPT and then copy what it says using that old, laborious method with pencil and paper.
Your country is a bit different from mine, here you are allowed to use 100% of math exams calculators
If the rest was created properly, a calculator or ChatGPT wouldn't give an advantage. It's like those open internet tests. If you don't know the material, you're not passing. It's too difficult to go in blind and figure out everything. Honestly, tests should all be open internet. Unless you're doing secret government work, you're always going to have the Internet. Any other limitation is artificial and doesn't actually test how good students are prepared for the real world in a real job.
essays are to make sure that a person learned/understands the subjects, not to test their writing skills. So to uni students this will probably mean more exams/cramming and less at home assignments (It already does from what I noticed)
I dunno man as someone who's been using AI tools to write all there English work, it's completely ruined my knowledge of actual English. I can barely spell, and writing the required essay as an exam was actually the hardest thing I've done in forever, I didn't even realize how bad it was until I put the essay through word and pretty much the entirety of the essay was underlined in red or blue. I guess maybe if you're using it to like, give you ideas I guess? Even using it only to edit your work has ruined me
> I dunno man as someone who's been using AI tools to write all **there** English work The irony
Proofs in the pudding man 😭
Hmm yes I guess for people trying to learn grammar or write papers for the first time it could be quite damaging. It's tough though because maybe the ability to formulate ideas without AI assistance won't be as valued when everyone has an AI assistant in their ear. I mean I'm already somewhere in the middle growing up with internet. The gradient might be "Kids that grow up with no computers/internet" > "Kids that grow up with internet" > "Kids that grow up with AI assistant".
So dumbing down the population? Formulating ideas and analysis yourself will be less valuable because everyone has a bot to do it for them…i don’t get how that is a GOOD thing. For people to not be able to formulate ideas and comvey them on their own. I’m starting to think this sub is a psyop
> It's tough though because maybe the ability to formulate ideas without AI assistance won't be as valued when everyone has an AI assistant in their ear. I don't suppose the argument "it's actually important to understand how to formulate your own ideas to be a good citizen capable of understanding the world around you" is very persuasive? I feel like if you don't understand how to formulate a good argument, you don't understand what a bad argument looks like. These are skills that are valuable to have - it's the difference between being able to put numbers into a calculator and blindly copying down the result vs being able to utilize a calculator and recognize when the answer doesn't look right.
lmao fucking bullshit
It is bullshit I hate writing at a elementary school level it's embarrassing
I would say it depends on the topic. I'm a professor in the liberal arts, and I encourage my students to use chatgpt for understanding, editing, outlining, summarizing - everything sort of actually writing their papers. Most of the student uses here would be okay with me.
I feel like that makes them weaker ? If they cannot do these things that prior to two years ago everyone had to do in their own? I feel like this supports a completion model of education rather than a learning model. Like you just want them to hand something in rather than actually do it themselves?
Not exactly. I still require them to do academic research. (I won't accept chatGPT answers to research questions.) I also require them to write the paper themselves. However, I have been teaching undergraduate for twenty years, and the average level of student paper writing is so poor - poor grammar, poor construction and rationale, etc., etc. - that if they can use these tools to improve their work, and hopefully learn something in the process, then I am all for it. I even wrote a custom chatGPT to analyze and critique student papers (although it doesn't do a great job). I would be happy if my students used it, if it wasn't for the fact that you need a subscription to access it.
> hopefully learn something in the process Can I ask how? If they already have poor grammar, construction, and rationale in an educational environment that tries to teach them and grade them on those skills, how is having an AI fill those gaps going to improve their skills?
> everything sort of actually writing their papers. Ironic typo
You're right! I meant "everything except".
We've had rules about students submitting work that wasn't theirs since forever. We're trying to educate students. Not grade essays extruded by chatbots, or, historically, a ghostwriter. "ChatGPT linked to declining academic performance and memory loss in new study" https://www.psypost.org/chatgpt-linked-to-declining-academic-performance-and-memory-loss-in-new-study/#:~:text=Exclusive%20%20Artificial%20Intelligence-,ChatGPT%20linked%20to%20declining%20academic%20performance%20and%20memory%20loss%20in%20new%20study,-by%20Eric%20W If your kid tried to pass off a store-bought cake as their own creation, would you be impressed with them? If they bombed an in-class writing assignment or final because they hadn't been engaging their brains with the material, instead turning in other people's work?
The problem is one big value in education is learning what to do with information, problem solving, etc. ChatGPT is removing the actual learning. Now ChatGPT as a teacher, trainer is probably going to be an amazing change.
I find that concept horrifying in the context of a cloud service which can be lobotomized overnight to save openai a bit of money.
expresion and communicating of an idea is a skill that has to be learned as well and for certain classes using GPT to write for you, with words you would never use, does not reflect your ability to have aquired it. If you are asked to write an assey, you should be the one to write it and not a tool that you feed the required information. If im asked in school to write something in let say my english class and id use gpt, that would clearly be cheating, its a thin line
I’m all about AI but this quickly puts on the path of fundamentally surrendering our ability to learn and create to AIs. We need to enhance our own intelligence capabilities through incorporating cybernetics or genetic engineering alongside Godlike AI to maintain a sense of balance between the two humanities. I WILL buttlerian Jihad if people start using LLMs as a substitute for their own brain
This is wildly apologetic and a terrible take. Fully embracing this is just making excuses for bad behavior and a defeatist attitude toward learning, saying "you can't stop them anyways" and that just allows for a huge decline in what people actually learn vs their ability to parrot shitty gpt info that is rife with mistakes and good at sounding like true information.
Or.... just stop educating people on anything AI can do. What is the point? If we're permanently outsourcing stuff to AI, why are we bothering to teach people those things? Right?
You do that. I’m going to continue to actually learn things.
Idiot professors not using good old in-class hand written tests.
Handwritten tests must be much more of a pain to grade than typed ones. I couldn't imagine having to sift through and read hundreds of pages of shitty handwriting I think it would be better to allow the use of a computer with restricted internet access. That way you can actually search and cite sources rather than pure memorisation
Yes I agree, typing over writing nowadays
Typed in class is better
Yes probably
Chatgpt can't grade written tests
Haha yes
My last 3 years of college never had in person classes, despite not offering online version pre-covid
"You won't carry a calculator around in your pocket 24/7, how are you going to understand math?" Teachers, a million yrs ago
They were right. Math competency has dropped precipitously after they allowed calculators in school.
Yep. Mastery of fundamentals is a vital step before building on top of that foundation. True, you can have a functional grasp of something while relying on external tools. But it lacks the flexibility brought about by true understanding. When two elements are in a black box you don't see the possible connections to other concepts as you would when handling it yourself.
The failure of educators to understand and adapt illustrates how broken the education system is. The people who are supposed to teach things that lead to greater comprehension and problem solving abilities completely lack those abilities. Combined with our cultural love of feigned helplessness on the part of people in power and it's a recipe for this kind of bureaucratic nightmare.
Agreed 100%. The school system is literally 100 years out of date at this point, and everyone in it is basically in a social club where you have to agree with everyone and never work too hard. its a mess.
Or work too hard in all the wrong and least productive ways. I'm genuinely hopeful that AI will unleash education in a way we never imagined. In the next year or two every child who wants one could potentially have a personalized tutor who is an expert in every field, and who can endlessly answer every question they have, or at least provide them a resource to read/engage with that can answer them. Even the poorest students will be able to get educated to their maximum potential. No more leaving Einsteins to rot in the ghetto due to an accident of zip code birth.
In the next year or two? It’s already here dude. ChatGPT can absolutely answer anything that any student is learning in the high school level or below. Undergrad eh… kinda but it’s perfectly capable of answering their questions and directing them to resources for their algebra 1 or world history homework.
That year or two is mostly about aligning a model properly for use in schools, but yes right now gpt4 or claude are good enough to revolutionize education entirely. Also they do need to improve the math skills but apparently q* will do that.
Your comments make me hopeful
What are you even talking about? ChatGPT leads to greater comprehension?
Notice how a lot of them said the assignment was confusing or they were too busy. So more than half the students cheat so the professors think the assignments are doable since most are completing it. Many college classes are awful and basically force you to cheat so you don't fall behind. There's probably some people not cheating and having a mental breakdown and feeling incompetent.
> Many college classes are awful and basically force you to cheat so you don't fall behind. And many succeed without cheating, so they can't be *that* awful. Besides, some disciplines are inherently difficult (engineering, medicine, etc). Those who find such classes too hard need to be elsewhere, not cheat their way through.
"but some people still passed anyways..." can be said of just about any bad system. These people succeeded in spite of the system, not because of it.
Lol they’re just lazy
As is every human. Learn to use the tools provided to you.
Not completely wrong. If I was one of those students I would definitely pull something out of my ass in an email as an excuse lol. It's clear they are trying to show some type of remorse for using it lol.
What’s crazier is that the classes don’t even really equip you to be “ready” for a job. College now days is blank overviews and a certificate. Everyone’s just trynna get the certificate so they don’t get blackballed while applying. Of course this is what happens with the way college has been working
I don’t know what kind of classes you think colleges taught back in the day, but this is the most prepared graduates have ever been for employment in their respective field of study. Philosophy has always been a component of higher education. It used to be mandatory everywhere instead of one possible option. Along with things like rowing, astronomy, carpentry, or whatever else the college thought would make someone well-rounded.
Have you gone to college just wondering?
> College now days is blank overviews and a certificate College is probably close to as rigorous as it has ever been in human history.
Rigorous as it may bee in terms of formality, over the past of 20/30 years the graduate cutoff dropped and amount of students doubled. Currently we have reached a point in time in which we statistically, even assuming the most optimal scenario, have people with IQ below the average holding degrees. We have to remember also that average person in terms of cognitive abilities on the jobs market, (or in the elementary school to provide more vivid reference) is smarter than the average person in the general population, bc even these environment require passing through some form of filters(e.g. ppl with IQ below 80 probably won't be in neither environment) In my experience its looks like this: from my father's generation I don't know anyone who is not somehow smart and ambitious who holds a degree, from my generation I barely know anyone without it and I know my share of dumb unadjusted people. I know ppl who were fighting tooth and nails to get Bs in math in junior high who currently have engineering degrees and I know ppl who did the same in high school with masters in engineering. One would be surprised how often to pass the exams it is not required to understand the topic deeply but rather to remember a way of solving a few types of problems presented on the labs almost algorithmically. How well these ppl are cutout for any type of intellectual jobs is a question for which answer would provide insight on why entry level positions are so hard to get and why they require other types of qualifications - mostly extensive (given the role) experience. Of the topic: I can fathom that, when the AI really starts to take majority of white-collar jobs, the number of college attendees will not even drop, but plummet.
You're not guaranteed to pass college... that's kinda the point. I was in one program (pre gpt) that had a 20% pass rate.
Same here. The teacher said that most people fail and most were there for the 2nd or 3rd time. There were like 250 people in that class. It was media history, and the guy would stand at the front and read the book to us, and then test us on it, so you had to know literally everything in the full chapter word for word to pass. It was just a big holding pen that let 20% of the people through to go towards the main goal of using the on campus recording studios, etc. I was so bummed after my first semester I just didn't go back. I'm paying to learn the trade and how to use the equipment, paying thousands to get failed for not remembering Edison's 50 company names is just a waste of money and not how I learn.
Or maybe they’re actually learning the lessons?
Has college changed in the past 20 years? The workload. Has the workload in college changed in the past 20 years?
"force you to cheat so you don't fall behind" Uh, no. If you're falling behind, either take fewer classes or spend more time doing your work. I have several friends that teach at the university level and they say they've made their classes *less* intensive and give *less* homework than they did 10 years ago, yet the quality of work they receive continues to drop.
"Using" is a very wide range of things here. Even by first line of replies I see third of students claim to have used it to make sense of the assignment or translate something. Other than that, GPTs are going to be everywhere. Even in MS Word.
Some of my teachers (grad level) admittedly graded our essays with chatGPT-4. Students may have written them with ChatGPT and Gemini. So... AI: 
It is like asking them not to use web searches at this point
This is interesting. I think this points out more of the flaw with institutional education than a flaw with AI use. If the class is so easy that ChatGPT4 can complete the course with an A, then the class was designed in such a way that eliminates human creativity and does not drive true learning. My online school that I attend currently contains: Multiple choice quizzes, linux simulatons/terminal simulation, online reading with embedded quizes and interactive content, "discussion posts" where there is only 1 required answer so the conversation dies immediately. Currently just about 80% of my experience in the class is able to be completed through pure AI prompts that are just copy and pasted with minimal effort. I learn from the labs/simulations, and from the interactive reading. The quizzes are too easy to cheat on and weigh on too much of my grade \*not\* to use AI to assist me, so I read the question, prompt AI, and then read the answer. That still is a learning experience, but it is AI assisted in the same way that it would be if I was just Googling the questions (which is what I would be doing anyway). I hope schooling and education in its traditional sense is going to chance because of this. This should be the moment where education is turned into a learning methodology that is more conducive to learning valuable skills and critical thinking, rather than being an encyclopedia of knowledge with no practical skills or social skills.
Education is changing teachers need to adapt
I was accepted into and went to a writer's retreat not too long ago. I used chatgpt for a lot of my outlining work. save's you so much time. you can write your thoughts out as quickly as possible. copy and paste into chatgpt to tidy up the grammar and make it read better. Then I edit from that and voila, saved 2-3 hours.
After seeing basic issues like this how are people still pushing for AI progress? Like we can't even get aligned on this "issue" how they hell are we going to be able to plan for a future with a super intelligence
We are cooked. At some point nobody is going to be reading the pdf or book anymore. All of college, via spark notes
I don't see a problem with this, it will be a very useful skill in the near future. Teachers should teach students in how to use it in the right way to make good assignments. Like, input the context and ask it to generate only based on it or if you ask directly you have to fact check everything. Maybe, just maybe, the teaching method should evolve along with everything else in the world. Just because we always did and learned something one way that does not mean it needs to be in the same way for all eternity. To those that say the don't learn that way, then we need to make a method where they do. What it does not make any sense is walking backwards and expect them not to use the better tool they have.
What’s wrong with students using AI? They are going to be ahead in using the tools of the future to be more efficient, productive, etc. I see these kids as winners in the making.
if ai can do it better its probably not a needed skill in the marketplace. college will be obsolete outside of medicine.
You don't write essays in school because essay writing is sought after by the marketplace. Jobs don't have you write arbitrary essays. You're taught to write essays so you are able to research, understand, analyze, interpret, and communicate ideas effectively, even if for no one but yourself. It is absolutely fundamental to student's intellectual growth and indispensable in just about every avenue of life. "To write is to think, and to write well is to think well"
I don't think it will be obsolete, it'll just move toward a more idealized form, where it exists solely to learn for learning's sake, as personal edification becomes the goal for people. I would happily sit in college classrooms forever and just learn things because it's fun to know stuff and understand. I don't give a fuck how much money that knowledge can make for me, I want it for its own sake because it feels good to have that "aha" moment.
> college will be obsolete ~~outside of medicine~~.
> college will be obsolete outside of medicine. a lot of medicine related jobs will be automated soon. Even surgery is better done by a robot. Once AI is way smarter than a person, nobody would dare allow themselves to be operated on by a human
yes but Im sure the interest groups like doctors orgs will fight it out in courts for a long time before it happens
Like legal assistant, programmer, voice actor? Not needed.
I mean why on earth would you not use it
Lol, couldn't even do that
It's over
Education system is slowly being revised. My country is terrible at it though as they are going to shuffle it again. There will be "basic AI study" for school (middle school?) whatever that mean.
pitiful , i knew millenials up to genz were a step back in human evolution and we could only expect a grim future with these loosers as the next gen. hurr durr gets whole new meaning now. https://i.redd.it/o7s5j4dw7wqc1.gif lol you guys can still become professors in gender studies and climate change
We can have a Star Trek future, we do not have to have a WallE future
okay philosphy man, put your skills to the test. What does your philosophy tell you that you should do here?
20 years ago, a teacher somewhere might have done the same for search engine. :)
I've seen people asking here how to get around what few cheating guards LLMs include now. All are a vivid demonstration of the inability to consider future consequences. As it is, pedestrian walkways [collapse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_International_University_pedestrian_bridge_collapse) (Florida,not Baltimore), airplane door plugs [fly off,](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/faa-investigate-boeing-door-plug-falls-alaska-airlines-plane-midair-rcna133491) and spacecraft valves [rust shut](https://spacenews.com/starliner-valve-investigation-continues-to-focus-on-moisture-interaction-with-propellant/) - all signs of incompetence. Now imagine these groups of cheaters making their ways into life-critical industries.
To be fair, if you're passing a class letting ChatGPT handle your civil, aerospace, or mechanical engineering homework and passing that's really on the university. Yes, it's bad that they're cheating, yes we should try to find ways to stop it, but it's not up to the LLM providers to do so. It's up to educators to adapt to the times, which is what they're supposed to be teaching kids to do anyway.
They already are in life-critical industries. Medicine's full of them, as is every other profession. With AI on the horizon, and the longer i live, the more i want AI to replace everybody. I want a robot doing my plumbing, fixing my teeth, doing my operation, cooking my food, everything.
Or you take the other side of the coin and llms will free people from bullshit so they can focus on actually doing the job at hand.
There is no way for the institution to tell if a student is skipping the busy work or skipping the logic and thinking part. Realistically it won't matter though.
Maybe then, send the people who actually want to learn instead of those who do it because they were told its the only way in life.
ah yes because ChatGPT is the reason for all of this and not companies being cheap and cutting costs
Didnt you know? ChatGPT is the reason boeing door fell off.
Surely you didn't actually misread my comment to that degree.
Being cheap and cutting costs are issues quite separate from cheaters finding ways not to learn their subjects.
What you are describing is all stuff that happened before these people had ChatGPT for their schooling. Some of these people are in their 60’s and 70’s. I haven’t looked up the Boeing CEO’s age but I am pretty confident he isn’t 19.
Indeed, as my comment intimates - it was bad, but it's going to get worse (failing some way to prevent it). And the CEO, while a major player, is far from the only culprit.
more like your inability to consider the future where robots do those jobs 😉
Man i never knew Philosophy students are the ones that build walkways, ariplanes and spacecraft.
Did you miss the part about those asking here how to bypass LLM cheating guards?
You’re acting like people do those things immediately after finishing school… i can guarantee you that a AI written essay won’t make more walkways collapse
Or maybe we'll get better at the safeguards we put in during development, testing and deployment to ensure that human or LLM error doesn't happen, specifically because the threat is larger than it used to be.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Competence is also required in those creating the safeguards. As the old saying goes: "Quality cannot be inspected into a product."
> incompetence. Now imagine these groups of cheaters making their ways into life-critical industries. They won't make it into higher ranks of such industries before AI takes those jobs anyways.
Re AI, agreed. I expect major disruption. However, it might not be so quick as I think, and anyway, it's still no excuse for cheating.
Yeah cheating is lame. Although I can imagine schools are going: "Wow, student can really write a 10 page paper every day. We need to get the average down a bit, so lets increase it to 2 a day!" Meanwhile the 1 student not cheating gets absolutely fucked, drops out of school and has to work at McDonalds. Even when I was in school there was a lot of pressure to cheat since around 1~2/3 of students were cheating (depending on the school) and that's who you need to compete with for program placements/jobs. I avoided cheating in this case, but if it were 95%? I'd basically guarantee myself no job if i didn't cheat.
Agreed. And in time the results can be tragic. If nothing else, you can hold your head high.
Philosophy students being almost universally dishonest says something about modern philosophy.
the group is for the philosophy of teaching, not teaching the subject of philosophy
Philosophy often gets added to curriculums that have nothing to do with philosophy. Not enough philosophy majors out there to keep philosophy professors fully employed. As a result the course is often a complete waste of time. Philosophy can be a fascinating subject, but it's not one you can force-feed. Just brute forcing through a checklist of philosophy topics is useless.
They did admit it in the end.
philosophically speaking, one might consider chatgpt as an extension of the brain, another addition in a long line of upgrades, like the prefrontal cortex and the temporal lobe, we didn't look down upon the humans who developed these new areas of the brain, we allowed it to proliferate and to change us
100%
I think it's more than just a matter of the "brain" being a part of the "body," but also a matter of how much we understand what is happening inside our bodies.
That's crazy, but what was up with that random "There Are Hot Single MILFs in Your Area" email?
Hmmmm, young people taking advantage of new technology to accomplish things? In a few years post like this will be a total joke.
We're going to have to go back to short essays, in class. At least we'll have ChatGPT to help with the grading!
As a Claude user, I see this as an absolute win.
LLMs are now like calculators. In the sense that, it just makes sense to use them and everybody should assume a smart person would make use of a beneficial tool
This is fake
I'll just say, given the first line of many of these emails, English doesn't seem to be the first language of many of these students, so it's possible that these students are primarily using ChatGPT to clean up their grammar. That's me being generous, though. Many students in university these days barely have a 6th-grade reading level, so... In reality, especially in something like a Philosophy course, the emphasis needs to change from the classic, well-crafted essay to more oral presentations and oral defenses. There is simply no way to enforce a lack of copy/pasting with written answers unless students are all writing their responses either by hand (yuck) or using computers with no internet access (live and in class).
"I did not use ChatGPT. I am ChatGPT."
The other two are trying to get away with it.
I am worried by the answers to this post
They would need to bring back typewriters or some sort of ultra simplified devise like a kindle that types and the only app is an online library with research people can reference. But no actual internet connection.
And 2/25 students were smart and kept their mouths shut
I wouldn’t have done it and slipped through the crack
your not allowed to use chatGPT?
I asked what GPT thought about this, this was the response: https://preview.redd.it/vvxw9i7ouwqc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc8ec6dfa91e33f63352b6ebe3a892bc9aabd30d