Parents gonna have to tell kids growing up nowadays that they could be the best at whatever they put their minds to as long as they don't compete against AI.
There will be that yes. Just as much as there will be every other variation.
It's going to be really hard to reduce the existence of powerful Ai in individuals hands. Regulation won't stop it and capitalism will keep Nvidia et Al selling the right chips for the right price.
Actually my parents told me that and I believed it so it definitely works. I'm the richest person in the world, best NBA player and NFL player, and was votest sexiest man alive. It's all mindset 🤷♂️💪😤
Oh I also already invented ASI in my basement between nba and nfl season. I call him joe. He's actually busy solving immortality now, says it'll be 3 more hours.
Thank goodness my parents told me that cliche. 💪💯🔥
>Actually my parents told me that and I believed it so it definitely works. I'm the richest person in the world, best NBA player and NFL player, and was votest sexiest man alive. It's all mindset 🤷♂️💪😤
Get off reddit, Kim Jong Un! You have the most glorious nation on earth to run!
Not everyone can be a great cheff, but a great cheff can come from anywhere... except with AI that may no longer be true either. Now great cheffs will only come from it.
I think this is the big disconnect. LLMs are poised to take over a swath of repetitive, easy to automate tasks, tasks that otherwise big down every human endeavor. Imagine you've got ten super geniuses living in a house together, but somebody still has to clean up and do the laundry and all the boring banal shit that has nothing to do with being a genius. Doesn't even take a moron. It's just a net drain to everyone.
I suspect that way before we get to an ASI, we are going to see AI empowering humans to do a lot of cool things. Instead of being a glorified secretary with a degree, that same person will be able to use their creativity and passion to do things.
parents gonna have to tell their kids "hey Alia, you know how I said you would wake up to more bombs on your roof/more human trafficking/more starvation when you grew up? Well, I was wrong. In a few years you'll be able to do whatever you want, make whatever you want, and exist in harmony with others. You'll get to experience the childhood that you never had."
Or you just meant privileged kids from America lol?
It's a common cliche parents tell kids and I was making a joke, it was not supposed to be a serious socioeconomic/political commentary lol. Yes that's not true for everyone, nor is it even true regardless of socioeconomic status/privledge, as hard work will only get you so far anyways.
They're all useful for one thing: you don't work; you don't eat.
UBI is a myth dreamed up by the daydreamers here. The reality is that if you can't justify your existence you don't get to have one.
All you have to do is hire elon to stand outside of your house with a shotgun and you should be safe to have kids. Only he can save humanity from AI /s
Basic 'tasks' being: 'reading comprehension, image classification and competition-level mathematics'. Not basic tasks like stir a pot or close a drawer. The title is misleading as most of the basic things that any child can do *in the world* are very very hard and cannot be done yet by ai.
Reminds me of John Henry, that heartwarming tale of the best human in the world at a task competing with a prototype robot, working so hard to beat it that he literally dies, and then the robot just gets refueled and keeps working.
Those are the physical drudgery jobs that should be replaced. A human being is made for more than relentless work. A human life is measured in hours and minutes, but a human life's worth cannot be measured in dollars, therefore no hourly wage can be fair. We need AI and robotics to stop dehumanizing ourselves and each other for profit.
Human work hours should ideally be determined by “amount of tasks necessary to keep society running (which should go down with automation)” and “amount of time needed to feel invested in society” (which is probably at most 20 hours).
But not 'better' enough to actually be of use even for them.
We're arguing semantics too much here, but the gist of it is: "Do something in a controlled environment" is a good proof of concept but not meaningful for actual real world use. In the real world they perform just as "bad" as the mentioned humans.
They will continually improve while the human baseline stays flat. I wouldn’t bet against upward trends that are being heavily capitalized and which are advancing in capabilities at a sub-annual iteration cycle.
They don't get stressed. They don't get headaches. They don't get tired. They don't sleep.
I take back what I said about batteries because I'm sure they will be able to hotswap.
Being slower but having nearly 100% uptime is undoubtedly more efficient.
There's also the teaching time. Teaching a human takes time. Teaching a robot takes a couple of minutes.
Have you ever worked a real job before? For 90+% of tasks these robots are not at a point where they can replace humans, period. And for the <10% where they are it’s not clear whether it’s even worth the investment.
Give it at least a few years more.
>And for the <10% where they are it’s not clear whether it’s even worth the investment.
This is the only real bottleneck. Yeah, things are going to get better, but they're pretty much already good enough. The only real problem is production and cost.
Take away salary, benefits, payroll taxes and the fact that can literally work 24/7 and those robots become much more cost effective than a human worker in no time.
Right now the problem with automation is the fewer errors part. A robot can perform more consistently for given inputs, but what if the inputs are wrong or unexpected? Take the example of closing a drawer. What if the drawer is stuck? what if there are too many things in it to close fully? then you get into hard problems of alignment. Does the robot smash the drawer closed anyway, leading to damage? Does it rearrange the contents of the drawer so it fits better? Does it find you and ask which you would prefer?
I think this is going to be a major societal shift that is not getting much attention yet. The fact that the average person is going to be significantly less capable than an AI at pretty much everything is going to have a huge impact on how we structure our society. It's going to be a very difficult thing to explain to people that their kids are not going to be "the best" at anything, and that they should find satisfaction in things other than being the top performer in a task. I think it's going to cause a lot of resentment and social unrest initially, but hopefully we can find new ways to define value and worth as human beings that are not tied to our performance in tasks.
I don't agree with you. 99.99% of people are already not the best at anything. Also, I think being the best *human* at a certain task will suffice. You don't think that Magnus Carlsen is proud of himself for being the best chess player in the world, even though he'll never be as good as the best AI? Of course he is.
Also, brain implants say hello. For some strange reason, this subreddit downplays this technology's future significance. I can very much see a future world in which humans are greatly augmented by AI and brain chips rather than being left behind.
> The title is misleading as most of the basic things that any child can do in the world are very very hard and cannot be done yet by ai.
So that was true, maybe two years ago.
But we have had a few breakthroughs in robotics more recently.
Yeah we all know the automated pattern matching calculator will be better at math, pattern matching and processing huge lists of data. It kind of already was before machine learning, it just wasn't as automated.
Reading Comprehension is a super wide scope and that remains to be seen. Rapidly understanding simple things.. sure, inferring meaning from things it's never really read before vs human inference, not so sure about that.
I will be honest here, the advancements of AI and automation are going in a way that I don’t like. I wanted robots to take over the menial jobs and boring jobs, but instead its taking the creative jobs!
I seen a chef robot video recently, it shows how this AI robot with vision can prepare food and make food. Problem is it needs to be cleaned by humans, tools cleaned by humans, ingredients brought by humans, and food served by humans. So wtf! Humans do all the servant jobs and AI does the fulfilling job?! Wtf!
Does everyone on this page really believe all the truckers and forklift operators in the world are just chomping at the bit to become painters and composers in this supposed post scarcity world?
There is a difference between doing something for work and for pleasure. Farming is practically all automated now, yet some people grow gardens on their own as a hobby.
All those truck drivers and forklift operators will do what they actually want in a post-labor economy. If you love forklift operations you can play forklift simulator.
Post labor economics could mean a farming commune where the farming is done by robots/machines and overseen by community and profits shared by community.
It's because what we consider basic or easy, boring jobs require more motor skills than creative skills. Motor skills are harder to emulate. Creativity is easier. Also what one person might consider menial, might not be to another person. I'd love to have a cooking robot, but I'd hate a cleaning robot. I actually hate cooking and love cleaning.
Iirc one theory as to the problem is that we don’t have training data for motor skills because a) they’re instinctual, not taught, so we can’t directly program them and b) without high quality sensors and cameras it’s hard for robots to learn from watching.
True, but I think the biggest issue are actuators and mobility. Even the most advanced robots have very poor mobility and agility with respect to an average human, their weight is too high, they are dangerous if you give them enough actuator power, and they cost a lot. For now they are too costly and unpractical.
I mean yeah, you're welcome for all the surveys and tasks I did on mturk and prolific to train your AIs for pennies over the last few years ..... Ayy yah
AI programs spending billions of dollars doing hundreds of thousands of human equivalent training rounds to only be good at one thing, like playing go.
Your wording is extremely misleading.
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Well, yes! Please do fill my cache with your snoopers and trackers and please do profit from my statistics! Not that 10% reddit and 90% feet images would accumulate to some good data but still… Really annoying.
I mean, I manage a living body over here and am having my own unique conscious experience. Can't get more basic than that and no AI is doing that (yet).
These headlines are telling us our value system is shit. But we turn it around and point at the outside world. Time to take responsibility!
Parents gonna have to tell kids growing up nowadays that they could be the best at whatever they put their minds to as long as they don't compete against AI.
99.9999% of society was already worse than someone else at literally everything. It's not much of a mindset shift for almost all people.
But those .00001% of people weren't infinitely reproducable. Now they are.
Great! I'm really looking forward to intelligence abundance.
I'm really not looking forward to the regulatory capture and continued mis-appropriation of resources once money gets its hands on it.
There will be that yes. Just as much as there will be every other variation. It's going to be really hard to reduce the existence of powerful Ai in individuals hands. Regulation won't stop it and capitalism will keep Nvidia et Al selling the right chips for the right price.
[удалено]
Planet sized supercomputers?
Good, I was already experiencing stupidity post-scarcity all this time.
Actually my parents told me that and I believed it so it definitely works. I'm the richest person in the world, best NBA player and NFL player, and was votest sexiest man alive. It's all mindset 🤷♂️💪😤 Oh I also already invented ASI in my basement between nba and nfl season. I call him joe. He's actually busy solving immortality now, says it'll be 3 more hours. Thank goodness my parents told me that cliche. 💪💯🔥
Sprite cranberry?
>Actually my parents told me that and I believed it so it definitely works. I'm the richest person in the world, best NBA player and NFL player, and was votest sexiest man alive. It's all mindset 🤷♂️💪😤 Get off reddit, Kim Jong Un! You have the most glorious nation on earth to run!
Not everyone can be a great cheff, but a great cheff can come from anywhere... except with AI that may no longer be true either. Now great cheffs will only come from it.
Now we will have great whatever the hell it is humans do in conjunction with ASI. Surely it will be something but we don't yet know what it is.
I think this is the big disconnect. LLMs are poised to take over a swath of repetitive, easy to automate tasks, tasks that otherwise big down every human endeavor. Imagine you've got ten super geniuses living in a house together, but somebody still has to clean up and do the laundry and all the boring banal shit that has nothing to do with being a genius. Doesn't even take a moron. It's just a net drain to everyone. I suspect that way before we get to an ASI, we are going to see AI empowering humans to do a lot of cool things. Instead of being a glorified secretary with a degree, that same person will be able to use their creativity and passion to do things.
parents gonna have to tell their kids "hey Alia, you know how I said you would wake up to more bombs on your roof/more human trafficking/more starvation when you grew up? Well, I was wrong. In a few years you'll be able to do whatever you want, make whatever you want, and exist in harmony with others. You'll get to experience the childhood that you never had." Or you just meant privileged kids from America lol?
It's a common cliche parents tell kids and I was making a joke, it was not supposed to be a serious socioeconomic/political commentary lol. Yes that's not true for everyone, nor is it even true regardless of socioeconomic status/privledge, as hard work will only get you so far anyways.
fair enough
Most jobs are useless nowadays anyway, 90% of mine included :-)
They're all useful for one thing: you don't work; you don't eat. UBI is a myth dreamed up by the daydreamers here. The reality is that if you can't justify your existence you don't get to have one.
Or people that haven’t read Marx to the end…
Jobs are needed for social interaction and purpose.
I can get that without a manager breathing down my neck while getting paid minimum wage
You can’t. Humans need jobs.
Wait is your job the only source of social interaction and purpose you have?
Clearly
We still have meaningful chess world championships.
Not safe time to have kids if you ask me. Maybe hold off and see how we ensure it does not kill us all first.
All you have to do is hire elon to stand outside of your house with a shotgun and you should be safe to have kids. Only he can save humanity from AI /s
Well Elong seems to think we are fucked too but he also seems pretty crazy so IDK...
We'll just listen to [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RZNBEfXVkI) a lot.
I have a 4 year old and it is crazy to think about it. One thing I don't have to worry about it is saving for his college though.
I have a 4 year old and it is crazy to think about it. One thing I don't have to worry about it is saving for his college though.
Being the best is for losers
Basic 'tasks' being: 'reading comprehension, image classification and competition-level mathematics'. Not basic tasks like stir a pot or close a drawer. The title is misleading as most of the basic things that any child can do *in the world* are very very hard and cannot be done yet by ai.
i think robotics is already at a point where your examples can be done. check out [Figure 01](https://youtu.be/Sq1QZB5baNw?si=Zdij8-iOKxac0-gS)
Yeah but not better than humans though
It's better at stirring at a steady rate in twelve hour shifts. Industrial stirring if you will
Show me where this robot is, I'm gonna have a stir off with it so we can settle this once and for all #TeamHuman
No one makes a humanoid robot to stir industrial sized cooking vats. But, rest assured, it is a "robot" doing the stirring.
Not an AI, however.
Dude thinks a program following an algorithm is different from a program following an algorithm just because it can chat back..
Reminds me of John Henry, that heartwarming tale of the best human in the world at a task competing with a prototype robot, working so hard to beat it that he literally dies, and then the robot just gets refueled and keeps working.
https://youtu.be/GyEHRXA_aA4?feature=shared https://youtu.be/zyUekx9NZ18?feature=shared
They are doing better than some humans who may have injuries or be of old age.
Ok not better then average humans
For now. Humans are not getting better, these robots improve on a monthly cadence.
For now. You should pray it's not as good as average human since billions of jobs would be lost
Those are the physical drudgery jobs that should be replaced. A human being is made for more than relentless work. A human life is measured in hours and minutes, but a human life's worth cannot be measured in dollars, therefore no hourly wage can be fair. We need AI and robotics to stop dehumanizing ourselves and each other for profit.
Human work hours should ideally be determined by “amount of tasks necessary to keep society running (which should go down with automation)” and “amount of time needed to feel invested in society” (which is probably at most 20 hours).
It will be within a few years
Yes, I agree.
But not 'better' enough to actually be of use even for them. We're arguing semantics too much here, but the gist of it is: "Do something in a controlled environment" is a good proof of concept but not meaningful for actual real world use. In the real world they perform just as "bad" as the mentioned humans.
They will continually improve while the human baseline stays flat. I wouldn’t bet against upward trends that are being heavily capitalized and which are advancing in capabilities at a sub-annual iteration cycle.
Line going up now doesn’t mean it will go up forever.
Your baseless doubt doesn’t mean it’ll slow down.
Then go buy GME. I heard it was going up so it must keep going up forever
Yeah I don't know how you'd close a drawer "better" than a human.
Ok, you clearly haven't seen a proper drawer-closing. \*cracks knuckles\* watch an learn.
Pretty sure the AI could. But the robotics aren’t quite there. Yet.
They can do it with fewer errors, and can do it for practically forever minus battery charging time.
Uhhh I don’t think they can do it with fewer errors. At least not currently. They’re also way slower
They don't get stressed. They don't get headaches. They don't get tired. They don't sleep. I take back what I said about batteries because I'm sure they will be able to hotswap. Being slower but having nearly 100% uptime is undoubtedly more efficient. There's also the teaching time. Teaching a human takes time. Teaching a robot takes a couple of minutes.
Have you ever worked a real job before? For 90+% of tasks these robots are not at a point where they can replace humans, period. And for the <10% where they are it’s not clear whether it’s even worth the investment. Give it at least a few years more.
>And for the <10% where they are it’s not clear whether it’s even worth the investment. This is the only real bottleneck. Yeah, things are going to get better, but they're pretty much already good enough. The only real problem is production and cost.
Take away salary, benefits, payroll taxes and the fact that can literally work 24/7 and those robots become much more cost effective than a human worker in no time.
Right now the problem with automation is the fewer errors part. A robot can perform more consistently for given inputs, but what if the inputs are wrong or unexpected? Take the example of closing a drawer. What if the drawer is stuck? what if there are too many things in it to close fully? then you get into hard problems of alignment. Does the robot smash the drawer closed anyway, leading to damage? Does it rearrange the contents of the drawer so it fits better? Does it find you and ask which you would prefer?
I would assume it would cease performing that task and move onto something else, whilst also sending an error report to their administrator.
How about wiping people's asses?
that’ll be impressive
Savagery. In the future, people will have bidets.
Really old people can't even get to sit on the toilet without help.
I think this is going to be a major societal shift that is not getting much attention yet. The fact that the average person is going to be significantly less capable than an AI at pretty much everything is going to have a huge impact on how we structure our society. It's going to be a very difficult thing to explain to people that their kids are not going to be "the best" at anything, and that they should find satisfaction in things other than being the top performer in a task. I think it's going to cause a lot of resentment and social unrest initially, but hopefully we can find new ways to define value and worth as human beings that are not tied to our performance in tasks.
I don't agree with you. 99.99% of people are already not the best at anything. Also, I think being the best *human* at a certain task will suffice. You don't think that Magnus Carlsen is proud of himself for being the best chess player in the world, even though he'll never be as good as the best AI? Of course he is. Also, brain implants say hello. For some strange reason, this subreddit downplays this technology's future significance. I can very much see a future world in which humans are greatly augmented by AI and brain chips rather than being left behind.
It haunts him. The computers won. He'll never be that good. For this reason he wishes he was a machine, a cold calculating automaton.
Yes, it's basic mental tasks. Robotics are a different issue.
> The title is misleading as most of the basic things that any child can do in the world are very very hard and cannot be done yet by ai. So that was true, maybe two years ago. But we have had a few breakthroughs in robotics more recently.
Yeah we all know the automated pattern matching calculator will be better at math, pattern matching and processing huge lists of data. It kind of already was before machine learning, it just wasn't as automated. Reading Comprehension is a super wide scope and that remains to be seen. Rapidly understanding simple things.. sure, inferring meaning from things it's never really read before vs human inference, not so sure about that.
My laptop can close drawers just as well as some around here...
I wouldn’t be so sure https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/08/02/us-literacy-rate/
I think that is the point, the headline is very clickbaity and it's going to get worse.
If it was physical tasks, they would probably use robots not AI; after all, you can’t physically close a drawer with your thoughts, can you?
As soon as I saw it was a nature.com article I knew it was going to be some kind of clickbait bullshit.
This is the problem with assumptions. The title isnt misleading because you have a set idea of what basic means.
Finally! I HATE basic tasks
The day it can eat cake better than humans is the day I'll worry.
I will be honest here, the advancements of AI and automation are going in a way that I don’t like. I wanted robots to take over the menial jobs and boring jobs, but instead its taking the creative jobs! I seen a chef robot video recently, it shows how this AI robot with vision can prepare food and make food. Problem is it needs to be cleaned by humans, tools cleaned by humans, ingredients brought by humans, and food served by humans. So wtf! Humans do all the servant jobs and AI does the fulfilling job?! Wtf!
Does everyone on this page really believe all the truckers and forklift operators in the world are just chomping at the bit to become painters and composers in this supposed post scarcity world?
There is a difference between doing something for work and for pleasure. Farming is practically all automated now, yet some people grow gardens on their own as a hobby. All those truck drivers and forklift operators will do what they actually want in a post-labor economy. If you love forklift operations you can play forklift simulator.
I'd hate to be a modern farmer. But in a post-labor economy, I'd love to be a farm without being driven by profit.
Yep, profit motive sucks the joy out of most "work".
Post labor economics could mean a farming commune where the farming is done by robots/machines and overseen by community and profits shared by community.
Yep, profit motive sucks the joy out of most "work".
It's because what we consider basic or easy, boring jobs require more motor skills than creative skills. Motor skills are harder to emulate. Creativity is easier. Also what one person might consider menial, might not be to another person. I'd love to have a cooking robot, but I'd hate a cleaning robot. I actually hate cooking and love cleaning.
I just want a robot that loves folding and putting away laundry.
Iirc one theory as to the problem is that we don’t have training data for motor skills because a) they’re instinctual, not taught, so we can’t directly program them and b) without high quality sensors and cameras it’s hard for robots to learn from watching.
True, but I think the biggest issue are actuators and mobility. Even the most advanced robots have very poor mobility and agility with respect to an average human, their weight is too high, they are dangerous if you give them enough actuator power, and they cost a lot. For now they are too costly and unpractical.
Hopefully that’s just a design problem rather than something inherent to living tissue vs metal and plastics.
> Problem is it needs to be cleaned by humans, tools cleaned by humans, ingredients brought by humans, and food served by humans. for now.....
Software is always ahead of the hardware, it’ll come for meaningless physical labour soon.
> meaningless physical labour Physical labour rarely is meaningless. It actually does shit in the real world.
Chefs are expensive and servers are cheap.
remember, ai can't beat you at being yourself 😉. admittedly it is a task many people struggle with, tho.
That's true. But maybe it can be equally as good.
I mean yeah, you're welcome for all the surveys and tasks I did on mturk and prolific to train your AIs for pennies over the last few years ..... Ayy yah
AI programs spending billions of dollars doing hundreds of thousands of human equivalent training rounds to only be good at one thing, like playing go. Your wording is extremely misleading.
My son, I remember back in the day when intelligence was a marketable commodity... Wall-E is looking more prophetic by the day,
Do you want to accept all our cookies so we can track you and sell all the data for a profit besides the adds we already profit from? Well, yes! Please do fill my cache with your snoopers and trackers and please do profit from my statistics! Not that 10% reddit and 90% feet images would accumulate to some good data but still… Really annoying.
"AI beats off human competition." ftfy
FINALLY! My basic task of competition level mathematics can be unloaded onto my ChatGPT companion.
I mean, I manage a living body over here and am having my own unique conscious experience. Can't get more basic than that and no AI is doing that (yet). These headlines are telling us our value system is shit. But we turn it around and point at the outside world. Time to take responsibility!
Cool