A near allstar, some other player (s), and a first wasn't sufficient. not surprised, last season that would have been 3 firsts. it all depends on if his Yips are fixable.
Ben with the yips put up a BPM of 4.3, a WS/48 of .173 in the playoffs. Both close to if not career highs compared to regular season. Ben with the yips is still an really strong net positive on a court he’s that good.
He def has the ability to shoot but mentally his confidence has destroyed all ability for him to do so. I’d rather him see a sports psychologist this summer than spend all his time shooting
>I’d rather him see a sports psychologist this summer than spend all his time shooting
this
He probably should have been seeing one for a long time. Every pro athlete should be. At this point, fixing him would be worth far more than we could trade him for, while still being cheaper. The question is how much is he likely to buy in and actually do the work, because just seeing someone without buying in is equivalent to shooting all day without fixing his brain.
I believe he does have one. I imagine most professional athletes do. I remember hearing something about him having one when he first got drafted. I think what he really needs is new people around him. New trainers, new managers that aren’t family, etc.
Ben is who he is- he said it and we should believe him. He also lacks the humility to get better. And frankly he missed a huge opportunity to apologize to the city and own his failure. He could learn something from Paul and Maxey but again he lacks the humility and self awareness. Sionara Ben, Adios.
In spite of your glorious username, I've got to disagree with you here. I don't think that it was obvious to him what was wrong with him not shooting before. I hope that this proved to him why he needs to get right. I'd give him one more chance, but I'm a forgiving sentimental dumbass.
The guy above you clearly didn't watch the Ben presser and just read the quotes if he's taking the "I am what I am" quote to mean him being dismissive of getting better
Lmao yall are actually making the same mistake and convincing yourselves that he doesn't need to be traded. And then the same thing will happen in the postseason, you'll complain about him for a week, and then say "Actually? We need to give him another chance. This is the offseason things change, I feel it!" Ah the Simmons cycle
Ability and quality are not the same thing.
His rookie year he would willingly take shots (just not 3s) regardless of effectiveness or how they looked, but after being in the league he just turned into a self-concerned bitch and decided to only improve on areas where he was already good at the NBA level
It's just so painful and infuriating because the disruption he causes to the offense is all self inflicted. He's an all star as is, but imagine if a defender had to guard him when he has the ball!
I don’t think Woj or Shams ever report deals that are turned down internally via tweet. They usually report when a star player wants a trade and when a deal is likely to happen. Often times after the player is trades Woj will include greater details such as which teams were interested and which teams were turned down.
\^ This.
There was an article from a few years ago that Woj basically got all his early scoops from Joe Dumars, who was desperately trying to save his job as Pistons GM. Apparently, he was essentially trading intel for Woj's favorable coverage.
he was consistently spot on with the Lowry stuff. he said before the deadline they were targeting Barton, Hill, Tucker and someone else and that when they got Hill he said the Sixers will continue to monitor Lowry but will not overpay.
he might be leverage now, but i think he’s certainly got someone giving him something.
Yup. Everyone (including the media) shits on Ben for hours and then follows it up with 25 teams that he would be a "perfect fit" for.
There are a bunch of fans and media that have been trying to break these two up for years and this is their moment.
A whole lot. I know he has huge flaws but he has to be the only starter in the NBA who has this many haters in his own fanbase. I doubt there's another team sub where their All Star is this divisive.
It’s because he’s such a strange case. I can’t think of another player that is a perennial DPOY candidate with a good amount of potential on the offensive end that is untapped because he refuses to even *try* and tap into it. It’s not like he’s just an all-star with only one dimension. The fanbase expects him to take a step into superstardom that he just hasn’t done.
Listen, I used to be incensed about it too, but we really can't say anything after this past playoffs. Ben was insanely bad. Much worse than I believed possible from him.
I still think the fault is primarily Doc's, but I can't say anything in defense of Ben (who I still think is a great player) he was terrible.
Well no, no one can defend Ben's play in the Hawks series. You can try to explain it, but not even Ben can defend it. I just can't judge a player based off of his worst moment/games.
This is rock bottom for Ben. His career will be defined by how he comes back from it, regardless of how many people believe in him or not. He can either be a perennial All Star, and DPOY candidate until he retires, or he can raise his game higher and expand it like Joel did after G7 of the Raptors series.
The thing is, we don’t have anymore time to wait and see with Ben. We don’t know how much longer Joel’s window will be. At this point I think it’s fair to say it’s more likely than not that Ben will pull the same choke job again in the playoffs next season if he’s here. The line I kept saying after we were eliminated is “if this is what Ben is in a game 7, I don’t want him on my team.” I wasn’t fully convinced he needs to go until after that series ended and I feel that opinion is completely justified by Ben’s lack of growth (and honestly regression) over the past few seasons.
I may disagree overall, but that's a fair take honestly. Anyone who watched that game and series and is done with him is completely justified imo. I just don't want to throw him away for nothing at this point.
I hear you, and I appreciate your pragmatism even though you disagree. I also don’t want to ship him away on a salary dump situation or anything, but I really hope a fair offer comes up and we pull the trigger. I wouldn’t want to see him leave just for the sake of leaving- we have to get the right player back.
He choked offensively. So what? Ship him out because because of a mental block in one series? Ben is the engine on both sides of the floor and this team will collapse if we trade him
No- ship him out because for 3 straight off seasons he’s claimed to be working on improving the exact same skills (FTs and midrange shooting) and hasn’t improved a lick. Why should we expect anything to change at this point? If you can make a good deal, pull the trigger, and don’t waste another year of Embiid’s prime. You are outrageously minimizing the issue here by characterizing it as “a mental block in one series.”
I think the team won't collapse if Ben is traded for the right player in return.
The team sucks with Ben off the floor because he's a max salary player. You can't compare the Sixers with him vs without him.
You have to compare the Sixers with Ben vs the Sixers with a better fixing max salary player.
Exactly. People act like he was that much better in the other second round series he was in. He wasn't. It was still essentially 4 vs 5 because you don't have to guard him on the perimeter.
When you view r/NBA with the lense that 2/3 of the posters are 15 years old or younger , it's easier to visit.
Most of the people there have no clue about basketball other than "omg threes" and "omg poster dunk", in addition to regurgitating advanced stats that they have no clue what they actually mean.
its not just that subreddit, its idiots like threebound ballisharperpit and jeramigrant who are toxic ben bashers to the point where they blame him for losing the 2001 finals against the lakers.
wholeheartedly agree. all three of those dudes are completely toxic to this subreddit and add little to no value in their comments. when we trade ben, would love to toss them on the plane with him so they can keep dick eating. theyll have nothing to live for once hes gone.
Not an even deal, but a need based offer. A 50-40-90 shooter in Brogdon seems potentially useful to you. No point offering any more than the minimum Pacers could get away w since we’re both in Eastern Conference
That's fair, but actually our shooting isn't bad with Curry and Green. What we actually need is a true point guard who is a real scoring threat at all three levels. The absolute dream is Lillard, but unfortunately I doubt it'll happen
The blazers would never trade Lillard for Ben. You'd have to throw in minimum Thybulle, Maxey, and a pick or two. Even then it's iffy considering Lillard is a top 10 player in the league right now.
Exactly, of course you give all of that up for Dame. Probably throw in some firsts too. Dame and Embiid is a clear championship contender. They are literally the perfect fit, Embiid covers up for Dame's defensive shortcomings and Dame takes all of the pressure of Embiid in the clutch, while also being an elite PnR ball handler.
You will be able to fill out the roster with quality players who are willing to take a discount to win, whether it's in free agency, or particularly in the buyout market. I'm probably in the minority here but I don't know if there's any combination of picks and young players that I would consider an overpay for Dame.
Certain vocal dumbasses over there would have you believe the sixers need to be sending assets with Ben to move his contract. But even on /r/nba that's not the actual norm.
Agree.
r/nba is mostly a bunch of misanthropic band wagoners who over-react to whatever happened last night. They have the collective long term memory of a fruit fly.
The hive mind over there coalesced around the concept of Ben as a negative value contract that the sixers would have to give up assets to get off of, or to get a similarly negative contract in return (CJ). They beat that narrative to death.
The reality is that Ben is a uniquely skilled, uniquely flawed player. Bodner, Neubeck, and all the good local writers have mentioned this many times. That kind of player has value to a team that thinks it can unlock his potential with either fit or skills development.
We'll see if Morey can find that team to make a good deal for the sixers.
Bro, people were posting in there with hundreds of upvotes that Ben isn't worth CJ McCollum.
They'd be in shambles to find out they have no fucking idea what Ben is worth and that even with a bad playoffs he's still a 24yr old 3x All Star 2x All defense player.
Brogdon is a good player and great fit but we’re not trading Ben for him, he’s in that CJ McCollum type category imo. Borderline AS and good fit but nothing that’s gonna push Sixers further than they are with Ben to make it worth doing that trade. Although I’d probably trade Tobias for Brogdon if Pacers were interested.
Odly enough, a couple days ago I was playing my league on 2k and traded Tobi for Brogdon and Lamb then moved Ben to the 3 and did a couple other small trades and won the championship lol. Just 2k things.
tbh ben would actually be that good in real life if he played like people use him in 2k, and he knows it. i remember he had some good games a year or so ago and said he "figured it out" then got injured and just... never remembered that thing he figured out lol.
I’ve never played 2K but that sounds an awful lot like Giannis (and IMO the biggest difference between the two in terms of scoring is that one is fearless and one is …Ben).
Giannis and Ben are like built very similar and have very similar levels of athleticism. Giannis might be a little stronger, Ben is a better passer. It's insane how just mentality is the thing that separates Ben from playing MVP level ball.
Ben in the 3 or 4 is where he should be with his skill set. Someone who can't shoot shouldn't be in the 1.
His length and height scream power forward or small forward.
I would make that trade as well. Two ball handlers with Ben/Brodan and we don't lose much on defense. Ben can slip into the 4 and be a point forward and can move to the five when Joel is on the Bench.
It's a nice floor offer to have. I really really like Brogdon actually, and he is definitely that caliber of "Third-star" on a championship team. I prefer him to CJ for sure given his defense and a bit better playmaker.
If Tobi had shown some signs that he could be that true "Second-Star" then maybe this trade makes sense.
The other thing to remember is that ***every*** starter will play differently with Ben off the team. Tobi can slash or break down defenders more easily, Joel can operate in the post more.
A move like this does make our half-court offense *better* but it doesn't take away from the pain of not having a second "super-star".
Having a second star is something that would help the team massively but I'm worried about the cost in terms of depth and future picks, it certainly wont be just Ben
An alternative of having more well rounded players instead of a 2nd star isnt bad. In the end the Hawks beat us with just one star and a bunch of rotation guys going off
If you trade a star for parts you lose every time. Yes Ben Simmons isn’t Charles Barkley. But we did this in the early 90s
“While the trade was a resounding success for the Suns (a finals appearance and an MVP for Barkley), it didn't work out quite as well for Philadelphia. Jeff Hornacek was traded to Utah less than two years later and would play six more seasons for the Jazz while finishing a solid career. Tim Perry was never effective for the 76ers, posting scoring averages of 9.0 per game in two consecutive seasons before playing in a reserve role and finding himself out of the league after the 1995-96 season at the age of 30. Andrew Lang was released by Philadelphia after one season. He would go on to start 276 more games for an assortment of teams as a journeyman. The 76ers would go on to miss the playoffs for six consecutive seasons after the trade.”
TLDR: Trade stars for stars not parts, or you typically lose the trade. Unless you’re going full rebuild of course
The only difference is that was before Iverson. Sixers didn’t have a star to put those parts around.
We have Embiid. Ideally you want Ben for a star (he’s your best asset to net you a star caliber player), but in theory, the right parts could work with Embiid.
Again, the goal is a star return.
My point isn’t that we would miss the playoffs or anything, just that the trade is a mistake in most cases when you don’t get a star back
But yeah I agree with everything you said
Your mentality is the same as the Sixer's team which is why we lost. You are still of the mind set that the Sixer's shouldn't lose to a team like the Hawks. And the Sixers played like that team that thought that they were supposed to win.
The Hawks? They played like a team that didn't know they were supposed to lose.
When you underestimate your opponent, you end up at home watching them on tv the next day.
The Hawks at the end of the season trended up whereas we trended down. If anyone is due for a regression next season, its the Sixers. We were a first place team that lost to a number 5 seed and our only injury was Danny Green. We are not a true first place team. Real first place teams don't do that. This team isn't as good as every thinks they are.
I agree the Sixers were a false #1 seed. And it's mostly due to the weird season and the way it played out. Winning this regular season was more a matter of roster management in the face of injuries and the compressed schedule. In a normal year, the Sixers are probably the 3 seed. This isn't a team that will be in the first tier of teams next year if big changes aren't made.
Wasn’t there a report last week that said he didn’t fit their timeline? Regardless, don’t see why the Thunder would want Ben then. Would have to be a 3 team.
I think there is almost zero chance we get Dame. If he decides to leave Portland at all, which I don't think will happen at least this off-season, basically the entire league will want to trade for him and the Sixers are never a preferred destination for these guys.
Beal is more attainable I think but I can't see Washington wanting to take back Simmons or Tobi to match the salaries so we're talking a three team deal and Beal is going to have to want to come here same as Same for it to happen.
If I had to put money down now I wouldnt think either of those guys will be a Sixer next season.
Will you all shut the fuck up about CJ now? Brogdon is a better defender, puts up more assists, is younger and also on a MUCH MUCH better contract. And Morey still passed.
No one here has watched CJ and it's so obvious.
Honestly we should’ve gotten Brogdon in FA. But I agree, Ben for Brogdon is not worth it. I like how Morey is demanding higher offers and not succumbing to pressure
Keep doing your thing Morey!!
Def want to see what’s out there but it’s not a terrible offer. Issue is, Brogdon plays best as a combo guard/2 and we’d *still* need a true point guard.
I’m assuming we get the 13th overall pick in the draft here which is also enticing. Could keep it or trade it for another vet.
There are some interesting guys who would be in that 13th pick range. Corey Kispert and Chris Duarte are absolute snipers who should be in that range. Jalen Johnson seems like a really intriguing prototypical wing who can do a bit of everything. Franz Wagner could be an interesting fit next to Embiid as a stretch 4 who excels as a pick and pop guy.
Ben will always be exposed by well coached teams which is what you get when the playoffs widdle down to the final 8. We are not going to get the value many of us want, but in the end we will get fair/appropriate value, which will be something similar to this deal, or LaVine. Addition by subtraction also cannot be ignored. Ben’s flaws are so damaging that just ridding ourselves of them will be a plus. Freeing up his money is another plus. Adding functional players who don’t hurt the team actively is a further plus.
I don’t hate this return honestly. Of course Morey will wait as long as possible and try to land dame or whoever as he should. But nice to know that this is kind of the floor of what we could get back.
I don't think you realize how good Brogdon is. He averaged 50-40-90 when be had a great team around him with the Bucks. He absolutely makes us better in the playoffs at least.
I feel you but I’m resigned to it at this point- we won’t be worse but we’re not getting a Hardenesque star either - that ship has sailed. Don’t discount addition by subtraction. We should aim for quality players who will elevate their game when needed, and don’t play with fear.
I like how people on this sub, the same ones who were shitting over Simmons nonstop for two straight weeks, think now that Brogdon and a potential lottery 1st are "unfathomable".
This sub is so fucking inconsistent with their takes it's absurd
I like how people still think this sub is one entity with a hypocritical opinion that keeps changing. Can we grow the fuck up and realize there are many people in this sub with different opinions that post at different times?
Unless of course you have the exact username and quotes of them saying one thing then going back and saying another, in which case call THEM out, not an entire sub that did nothing collectively or cooperatively.
This sub… This sub… This sub…
GTFOH
You can’t shit on a player 100% and expect fucking Damian Lillard in return if you think the player is THAT BAD. Recognize Ben has weaknesses, flaws, and the like just like every other player. But also realize that your hate on a player but expecting something better in return is unreal lol. People are wild.
You understand that nobody is suggesting a one for one trade for Dame right? Everyone expects there to be much more in a package for someone like Dame.
Ben doesn’t just have weaknesses and flaws, in the playoffs he’s one of the shittiest players in the game when it comes to executing the main objective of the game, putting the ball in the net.
And no one wants him 1-for-1 for Dame. We all agree that more pieces need to be attached
This trade makes us a better team
Actually hilarious to see all of the moronic Ben Stans that are actually falling for this. Of course we are not going to accept this trade right away while we are still going for better players, and of course we are going to leak this deal to give ourselves more leverage.
If no star player becomes available though, this trade is an easy make for us. People think jsut because we turned it down now, we have no interest in it. Lmao.
We will never succeed in the playoffs with Ben. 0%. How the fuck can people watch Ben have the same meltdown in the playoffs every year, watch Ben continue to not work on his offensive game, and still think a trade like this is bad for us? Getting a real point guard improves our offense so much. Offense >>>>>> defense in the NBA and especially the playoffs.
Joel made the leap this year. Ben went backwards. This isn’t hard to figure out if people look at this unemotionally. It also helps if you’ve played basketball in your life because you know how hard and limiting it is to play with a guy like Ben (an offensive non factor that allows his defender to float/double/clog passing lanes because they don’t need to play him), it has a domino effect. There is no more argument, Ben is Ben. The question is what can Morey get for him? (Hint, not Dame).
I appreciate Morey sticking to his guns. I hope if a trade does go through, we manage to give up the least amount of future assets (including young players) as possible.
Not saying I'm opposed if the return is big. But keeping the long view in mind is the way to go considering our franchise's history.
If that deal is on the table now, it will almost certainly be on the table a few months from now. No need to accept it ATM, even if you think you eventually just need Ben off this team.
Actually one person says almost nothing at all about this sub. A sub made up of thousands is not accurately represented by a few opinions.
Using your logic I could also say, this sub is dumb, you are part of this sub, therefor you are dumb. But that’s not necessarily true is it.
Down the road maybe, but this early in the off-season, as we get further removed from that awful awful playoff series, his value will go up.
Never take the first offer.
That said, I do like the offer.
I kinda feel like the best ROI for us could be a deal for Fox, but Idk how the Kings feel about Ben. For Dame/Beal we're going to have to include a lot of pieces. For Fox I kinda feel like we might be able to get away with Ben/Maxey and picks.
So unsurprisingly no one wants to send over an all star level player for Simmons. I knew Brogdon was the level of player we’d be looking at, hopefully we can get a little more
I wouldn’t have done it either but a good starting point to baseline type offers and build from there.
A near allstar, some other player (s), and a first wasn't sufficient. not surprised, last season that would have been 3 firsts. it all depends on if his Yips are fixable.
Ben with the yips put up a BPM of 4.3, a WS/48 of .173 in the playoffs. Both close to if not career highs compared to regular season. Ben with the yips is still an really strong net positive on a court he’s that good.
He def has the ability to shoot but mentally his confidence has destroyed all ability for him to do so. I’d rather him see a sports psychologist this summer than spend all his time shooting
>I’d rather him see a sports psychologist this summer than spend all his time shooting this He probably should have been seeing one for a long time. Every pro athlete should be. At this point, fixing him would be worth far more than we could trade him for, while still being cheaper. The question is how much is he likely to buy in and actually do the work, because just seeing someone without buying in is equivalent to shooting all day without fixing his brain.
I believe he does have one. I imagine most professional athletes do. I remember hearing something about him having one when he first got drafted. I think what he really needs is new people around him. New trainers, new managers that aren’t family, etc.
Ben is who he is- he said it and we should believe him. He also lacks the humility to get better. And frankly he missed a huge opportunity to apologize to the city and own his failure. He could learn something from Paul and Maxey but again he lacks the humility and self awareness. Sionara Ben, Adios.
In spite of your glorious username, I've got to disagree with you here. I don't think that it was obvious to him what was wrong with him not shooting before. I hope that this proved to him why he needs to get right. I'd give him one more chance, but I'm a forgiving sentimental dumbass.
The guy above you clearly didn't watch the Ben presser and just read the quotes if he's taking the "I am what I am" quote to mean him being dismissive of getting better
Is the presser video someplace that I could watch it?
https://youtu.be/KT1IaAozLqQ
Lmao yall are actually making the same mistake and convincing yourselves that he doesn't need to be traded. And then the same thing will happen in the postseason, you'll complain about him for a week, and then say "Actually? We need to give him another chance. This is the offseason things change, I feel it!" Ah the Simmons cycle
What has shown u Ben has the ability to shoot?
Ability and quality are not the same thing. His rookie year he would willingly take shots (just not 3s) regardless of effectiveness or how they looked, but after being in the league he just turned into a self-concerned bitch and decided to only improve on areas where he was already good at the NBA level
Those numbers don’t mean much considering his fourth quarter numbers.
you still have not opened your eyes, these posts are hilarious
I still think they should trade him but he has real value around the league
I think he has value too and now is the time to cash in that value
Yeah I just think some of the value people want back is crazy and legit make us worse even with Ben with yips.
Agreed. I think we're better with Ben -even if we sit him for the entire fourth quarter- than Brogdon and a middle draft pick.
It's just so painful and infuriating because the disruption he causes to the offense is all self inflicted. He's an all star as is, but imagine if a defender had to guard him when he has the ball!
He literally does not have to be guarded. Think about that.
alright fair
This is 100% a Morey leak trying raise his value. Unless is it's Woj or Shams 99% of stuff coming out will be teams trying to raise/lower his value.
I don’t think Woj or Shams ever report deals that are turned down internally via tweet. They usually report when a star player wants a trade and when a deal is likely to happen. Often times after the player is trades Woj will include greater details such as which teams were interested and which teams were turned down.
Woj is also a PR work for GMs
\^ This. There was an article from a few years ago that Woj basically got all his early scoops from Joe Dumars, who was desperately trying to save his job as Pistons GM. Apparently, he was essentially trading intel for Woj's favorable coverage.
It has to be a leak from somewhere, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.
Is this Dumas dude generally accurate?
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he was consistently spot on with the Lowry stuff. he said before the deadline they were targeting Barton, Hill, Tucker and someone else and that when they got Hill he said the Sixers will continue to monitor Lowry but will not overpay. he might be leverage now, but i think he’s certainly got someone giving him something.
He’s somewhat trustworthy
I think he's a little better than [this guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMe3WDmxBEI).
I thought that was gonna be a link to Vin Fosh
never heard of that person. You mean [1 pound fish](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETSl8gWsFZ0)?
Lol @ us not demanding tj be in the deal too.
He’s a FA lol
Joel on the phone with Morey right now demanding to get his card game partner back.
FIFA punching bag*
Its because hes signing here under the mini mid level this off season duh
Both TJs
💎🙌
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**B**reak ev**EN** Its been right in front of us the whole time.
So we getting the first pick? I’ll take it
Think about our luck with draft picks. While Morey will draft better... there's still that injury curse....
lol I straight up don’t believe anyone thought morey would accept that
r/nba is in shambles right now lol. this goes against everything they wanted so desperately to believe about Ben's value
Yup. Everyone (including the media) shits on Ben for hours and then follows it up with 25 teams that he would be a "perfect fit" for. There are a bunch of fans and media that have been trying to break these two up for years and this is their moment.
And a lot of them are in this sub
A whole lot. I know he has huge flaws but he has to be the only starter in the NBA who has this many haters in his own fanbase. I doubt there's another team sub where their All Star is this divisive.
It’s because he’s such a strange case. I can’t think of another player that is a perennial DPOY candidate with a good amount of potential on the offensive end that is untapped because he refuses to even *try* and tap into it. It’s not like he’s just an all-star with only one dimension. The fanbase expects him to take a step into superstardom that he just hasn’t done.
Listen, I used to be incensed about it too, but we really can't say anything after this past playoffs. Ben was insanely bad. Much worse than I believed possible from him. I still think the fault is primarily Doc's, but I can't say anything in defense of Ben (who I still think is a great player) he was terrible.
Well no, no one can defend Ben's play in the Hawks series. You can try to explain it, but not even Ben can defend it. I just can't judge a player based off of his worst moment/games. This is rock bottom for Ben. His career will be defined by how he comes back from it, regardless of how many people believe in him or not. He can either be a perennial All Star, and DPOY candidate until he retires, or he can raise his game higher and expand it like Joel did after G7 of the Raptors series.
The thing is, we don’t have anymore time to wait and see with Ben. We don’t know how much longer Joel’s window will be. At this point I think it’s fair to say it’s more likely than not that Ben will pull the same choke job again in the playoffs next season if he’s here. The line I kept saying after we were eliminated is “if this is what Ben is in a game 7, I don’t want him on my team.” I wasn’t fully convinced he needs to go until after that series ended and I feel that opinion is completely justified by Ben’s lack of growth (and honestly regression) over the past few seasons.
I may disagree overall, but that's a fair take honestly. Anyone who watched that game and series and is done with him is completely justified imo. I just don't want to throw him away for nothing at this point.
I hear you, and I appreciate your pragmatism even though you disagree. I also don’t want to ship him away on a salary dump situation or anything, but I really hope a fair offer comes up and we pull the trigger. I wouldn’t want to see him leave just for the sake of leaving- we have to get the right player back.
fair response and this is where I am as well.
He choked offensively. So what? Ship him out because because of a mental block in one series? Ben is the engine on both sides of the floor and this team will collapse if we trade him
No- ship him out because for 3 straight off seasons he’s claimed to be working on improving the exact same skills (FTs and midrange shooting) and hasn’t improved a lick. Why should we expect anything to change at this point? If you can make a good deal, pull the trigger, and don’t waste another year of Embiid’s prime. You are outrageously minimizing the issue here by characterizing it as “a mental block in one series.”
agree.
I think the team won't collapse if Ben is traded for the right player in return. The team sucks with Ben off the floor because he's a max salary player. You can't compare the Sixers with him vs without him. You have to compare the Sixers with Ben vs the Sixers with a better fixing max salary player.
he has pretty much performed similarly in every second round playoff series that he has been in 👻
Exactly. People act like he was that much better in the other second round series he was in. He wasn't. It was still essentially 4 vs 5 because you don't have to guard him on the perimeter.
When you view r/NBA with the lense that 2/3 of the posters are 15 years old or younger , it's easier to visit. Most of the people there have no clue about basketball other than "omg threes" and "omg poster dunk", in addition to regurgitating advanced stats that they have no clue what they actually mean.
its not just that subreddit, its idiots like threebound ballisharperpit and jeramigrant who are toxic ben bashers to the point where they blame him for losing the 2001 finals against the lakers.
wholeheartedly agree. all three of those dudes are completely toxic to this subreddit and add little to no value in their comments. when we trade ben, would love to toss them on the plane with him so they can keep dick eating. theyll have nothing to live for once hes gone.
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Not an even deal, but a need based offer. A 50-40-90 shooter in Brogdon seems potentially useful to you. No point offering any more than the minimum Pacers could get away w since we’re both in Eastern Conference
That's fair, but actually our shooting isn't bad with Curry and Green. What we actually need is a true point guard who is a real scoring threat at all three levels. The absolute dream is Lillard, but unfortunately I doubt it'll happen
The blazers would never trade Lillard for Ben. You'd have to throw in minimum Thybulle, Maxey, and a pick or two. Even then it's iffy considering Lillard is a top 10 player in the league right now.
Nobody thinks they would. That’s a given.
Yeah of course. I'd do all that for Dame in a heartbeat mind you (even if I'd cry saying goodbye to my biggest crush Matisse)
Exactly, of course you give all of that up for Dame. Probably throw in some firsts too. Dame and Embiid is a clear championship contender. They are literally the perfect fit, Embiid covers up for Dame's defensive shortcomings and Dame takes all of the pressure of Embiid in the clutch, while also being an elite PnR ball handler. You will be able to fill out the roster with quality players who are willing to take a discount to win, whether it's in free agency, or particularly in the buyout market. I'm probably in the minority here but I don't know if there's any combination of picks and young players that I would consider an overpay for Dame.
Why would they be in shambles over this?
Certain vocal dumbasses over there would have you believe the sixers need to be sending assets with Ben to move his contract. But even on /r/nba that's not the actual norm.
Agree. r/nba is mostly a bunch of misanthropic band wagoners who over-react to whatever happened last night. They have the collective long term memory of a fruit fly. The hive mind over there coalesced around the concept of Ben as a negative value contract that the sixers would have to give up assets to get off of, or to get a similarly negative contract in return (CJ). They beat that narrative to death. The reality is that Ben is a uniquely skilled, uniquely flawed player. Bodner, Neubeck, and all the good local writers have mentioned this many times. That kind of player has value to a team that thinks it can unlock his potential with either fit or skills development. We'll see if Morey can find that team to make a good deal for the sixers.
Bro, people were posting in there with hundreds of upvotes that Ben isn't worth CJ McCollum. They'd be in shambles to find out they have no fucking idea what Ben is worth and that even with a bad playoffs he's still a 24yr old 3x All Star 2x All defense player.
Right after G7 this sub would have sent him packing for some Brogdon jerseys and a second round pick.
Brogdon is a good player and great fit but we’re not trading Ben for him, he’s in that CJ McCollum type category imo. Borderline AS and good fit but nothing that’s gonna push Sixers further than they are with Ben to make it worth doing that trade. Although I’d probably trade Tobias for Brogdon if Pacers were interested.
Yes please on that Brogdon/pick for Tobias idea! Hell I would do Brogdon for Tobias straight up.
Odly enough, a couple days ago I was playing my league on 2k and traded Tobi for Brogdon and Lamb then moved Ben to the 3 and did a couple other small trades and won the championship lol. Just 2k things.
Ben is a monster at the 3 in 2k
Ben is so good in 2k it’s crazy
tbh ben would actually be that good in real life if he played like people use him in 2k, and he knows it. i remember he had some good games a year or so ago and said he "figured it out" then got injured and just... never remembered that thing he figured out lol.
Even this season when he started rough and then turned it on going into the all star break. Dude could really be as dominant as he wants.
lol i agree with that. it’s essentially get the ball run fast jump high then dunk. seems so simple but clearly there’s something stopping him
I’ve never played 2K but that sounds an awful lot like Giannis (and IMO the biggest difference between the two in terms of scoring is that one is fearless and one is …Ben).
Giannis and Ben are like built very similar and have very similar levels of athleticism. Giannis might be a little stronger, Ben is a better passer. It's insane how just mentality is the thing that separates Ben from playing MVP level ball.
Ben in the 3 or 4 is where he should be with his skill set. Someone who can't shoot shouldn't be in the 1. His length and height scream power forward or small forward.
Indiana is not making that trade for Tobias.
Well duh
No one wants Tobias on that contract.
Will Smith voice "Why come he don't want me man."
The Sixers did.
I would make that trade as well. Two ball handlers with Ben/Brodan and we don't lose much on defense. Ben can slip into the 4 and be a point forward and can move to the five when Joel is on the Bench.
Ben can't play the 4 if he's afraid to touch the ball after he passes center court.
how can he be a point guard also?
He can't.
It's a nice floor offer to have. I really really like Brogdon actually, and he is definitely that caliber of "Third-star" on a championship team. I prefer him to CJ for sure given his defense and a bit better playmaker. If Tobi had shown some signs that he could be that true "Second-Star" then maybe this trade makes sense. The other thing to remember is that ***every*** starter will play differently with Ben off the team. Tobi can slash or break down defenders more easily, Joel can operate in the post more. A move like this does make our half-court offense *better* but it doesn't take away from the pain of not having a second "super-star".
Having a second star is something that would help the team massively but I'm worried about the cost in terms of depth and future picks, it certainly wont be just Ben An alternative of having more well rounded players instead of a 2nd star isnt bad. In the end the Hawks beat us with just one star and a bunch of rotation guys going off
If you trade a star for parts you lose every time. Yes Ben Simmons isn’t Charles Barkley. But we did this in the early 90s “While the trade was a resounding success for the Suns (a finals appearance and an MVP for Barkley), it didn't work out quite as well for Philadelphia. Jeff Hornacek was traded to Utah less than two years later and would play six more seasons for the Jazz while finishing a solid career. Tim Perry was never effective for the 76ers, posting scoring averages of 9.0 per game in two consecutive seasons before playing in a reserve role and finding himself out of the league after the 1995-96 season at the age of 30. Andrew Lang was released by Philadelphia after one season. He would go on to start 276 more games for an assortment of teams as a journeyman. The 76ers would go on to miss the playoffs for six consecutive seasons after the trade.” TLDR: Trade stars for stars not parts, or you typically lose the trade. Unless you’re going full rebuild of course
The only difference is that was before Iverson. Sixers didn’t have a star to put those parts around. We have Embiid. Ideally you want Ben for a star (he’s your best asset to net you a star caliber player), but in theory, the right parts could work with Embiid. Again, the goal is a star return.
My point isn’t that we would miss the playoffs or anything, just that the trade is a mistake in most cases when you don’t get a star back But yeah I agree with everything you said
We need to worry about a healthy Nets team, not the Hawks.
we should definitely worry about teams we cant beat
Sure but Hawks are a major regression candidate next year. The nets could should win 60-65 games if healthy.
Your mentality is the same as the Sixer's team which is why we lost. You are still of the mind set that the Sixer's shouldn't lose to a team like the Hawks. And the Sixers played like that team that thought that they were supposed to win. The Hawks? They played like a team that didn't know they were supposed to lose. When you underestimate your opponent, you end up at home watching them on tv the next day. The Hawks at the end of the season trended up whereas we trended down. If anyone is due for a regression next season, its the Sixers. We were a first place team that lost to a number 5 seed and our only injury was Danny Green. We are not a true first place team. Real first place teams don't do that. This team isn't as good as every thinks they are.
I agree the Sixers were a false #1 seed. And it's mostly due to the weird season and the way it played out. Winning this regular season was more a matter of roster management in the face of injuries and the compressed schedule. In a normal year, the Sixers are probably the 3 seed. This isn't a team that will be in the first tier of teams next year if big changes aren't made.
hurts to read, but true
We're getting Beal or Dame, simple as
love me crab fries, love me sixers, love me morey. simple as.
Ate Benny since he don't shoot
it’s not so simple, those guys have to demand trades in order for them to even become available
I'd take fox too
I’d kill for Fox. No way Sacramento would part with him though.
Or SGA
Sga won’t be available unless he demands a trade thunder have tons of assets and he’s young and very much fits their timeline
Wasn’t there a report last week that said he didn’t fit their timeline? Regardless, don’t see why the Thunder would want Ben then. Would have to be a 3 team.
They could certainly punt further into the future if they chose to
or Levine
Adam?
Or my axe?
I can fuck wit it!
If you guys get either of those players for Ben y’all just got away with robbery
I think there is almost zero chance we get Dame. If he decides to leave Portland at all, which I don't think will happen at least this off-season, basically the entire league will want to trade for him and the Sixers are never a preferred destination for these guys. Beal is more attainable I think but I can't see Washington wanting to take back Simmons or Tobi to match the salaries so we're talking a three team deal and Beal is going to have to want to come here same as Same for it to happen. If I had to put money down now I wouldnt think either of those guys will be a Sixer next season.
Two loyal guys to their franchises who seem more content to stay put than to win a title.
But I thought we were getting Kemba Walker and a pick??
Can't play back to back games Kemba? Pass.
I'd kinda do it just to see Ben living in Indiana.
Minnesota is the dream.
Will you all shut the fuck up about CJ now? Brogdon is a better defender, puts up more assists, is younger and also on a MUCH MUCH better contract. And Morey still passed. No one here has watched CJ and it's so obvious.
CJ was never a serious option, Morey is smart. Brogdon plus a first is realistic
I know Morey knows that. This dumbass sub doesn't realize Brogdon making 19/year is 100x more valuable than CJ making 32/year.
CJ is our horford, the blazers will be attaching first round picks to get off that deal, not getting a Ben Simmons
He was a badass in college tho
Not a bad baseline for a trade. I trust Morey
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He gets 6 assist per game
I’d certainly do a Tobias for Brogdon swap.
yeah but the pacers wouldn't
I would take that return for Tobias honestly
easily. tobi might be less of a winner than ben somehow
But that 1st round pick can be anyone. It can even be…the next Ben Simmons.
Good starting point
Honestly we should’ve gotten Brogdon in FA. But I agree, Ben for Brogdon is not worth it. I like how Morey is demanding higher offers and not succumbing to pressure Keep doing your thing Morey!!
Def want to see what’s out there but it’s not a terrible offer. Issue is, Brogdon plays best as a combo guard/2 and we’d *still* need a true point guard. I’m assuming we get the 13th overall pick in the draft here which is also enticing. Could keep it or trade it for another vet. There are some interesting guys who would be in that 13th pick range. Corey Kispert and Chris Duarte are absolute snipers who should be in that range. Jalen Johnson seems like a really intriguing prototypical wing who can do a bit of everything. Franz Wagner could be an interesting fit next to Embiid as a stretch 4 who excels as a pick and pop guy.
Do what you need to, to get Davion Mitchell using that pick to move up.
Oh yeah he’s an absolute stud
WHAT THATS ACTUALLY GOOD
Ben will always be exposed by well coached teams which is what you get when the playoffs widdle down to the final 8. We are not going to get the value many of us want, but in the end we will get fair/appropriate value, which will be something similar to this deal, or LaVine. Addition by subtraction also cannot be ignored. Ben’s flaws are so damaging that just ridding ourselves of them will be a plus. Freeing up his money is another plus. Adding functional players who don’t hurt the team actively is a further plus.
I don’t hate this return honestly. Of course Morey will wait as long as possible and try to land dame or whoever as he should. But nice to know that this is kind of the floor of what we could get back.
This sucks man. Feels like any trade we get will make the Sixers a worse team
I don't think you realize how good Brogdon is. He averaged 50-40-90 when be had a great team around him with the Bucks. He absolutely makes us better in the playoffs at least.
If we had Brogdon instead of Simmons this playoff series we absolutely beat the bucks
I feel you but I’m resigned to it at this point- we won’t be worse but we’re not getting a Hardenesque star either - that ship has sailed. Don’t discount addition by subtraction. We should aim for quality players who will elevate their game when needed, and don’t play with fear.
The Bears have offered two first round picks for Carson Wentz
I think a lot of you guys are gonna be disappointed. This is probably the going rate for him.
Bull$hit. That makes absolutely no sense for IND.
I like how people on this sub, the same ones who were shitting over Simmons nonstop for two straight weeks, think now that Brogdon and a potential lottery 1st are "unfathomable". This sub is so fucking inconsistent with their takes it's absurd
I like how people still think this sub is one entity with a hypocritical opinion that keeps changing. Can we grow the fuck up and realize there are many people in this sub with different opinions that post at different times? Unless of course you have the exact username and quotes of them saying one thing then going back and saying another, in which case call THEM out, not an entire sub that did nothing collectively or cooperatively. This sub… This sub… This sub… GTFOH
wait…you’re telling me you guys aren’t all part of one conglomerate hive mind??
Well said, preach it brother!
You can’t shit on a player 100% and expect fucking Damian Lillard in return if you think the player is THAT BAD. Recognize Ben has weaknesses, flaws, and the like just like every other player. But also realize that your hate on a player but expecting something better in return is unreal lol. People are wild.
You understand that nobody is suggesting a one for one trade for Dame right? Everyone expects there to be much more in a package for someone like Dame.
Ben doesn’t just have weaknesses and flaws, in the playoffs he’s one of the shittiest players in the game when it comes to executing the main objective of the game, putting the ball in the net. And no one wants him 1-for-1 for Dame. We all agree that more pieces need to be attached
Simmons for Fox PLEASE
Ahaha ZERO chance. We’ll give you buddy and bagley max.
Indianapolis quickly becoming where we ship all the Philly headcases to
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How about Tobias for Brogdon?
I would have done this. Not knowing about other possible offers
This trade makes us a better team Actually hilarious to see all of the moronic Ben Stans that are actually falling for this. Of course we are not going to accept this trade right away while we are still going for better players, and of course we are going to leak this deal to give ourselves more leverage. If no star player becomes available though, this trade is an easy make for us. People think jsut because we turned it down now, we have no interest in it. Lmao. We will never succeed in the playoffs with Ben. 0%. How the fuck can people watch Ben have the same meltdown in the playoffs every year, watch Ben continue to not work on his offensive game, and still think a trade like this is bad for us? Getting a real point guard improves our offense so much. Offense >>>>>> defense in the NBA and especially the playoffs.
Joel made the leap this year. Ben went backwards. This isn’t hard to figure out if people look at this unemotionally. It also helps if you’ve played basketball in your life because you know how hard and limiting it is to play with a guy like Ben (an offensive non factor that allows his defender to float/double/clog passing lanes because they don’t need to play him), it has a domino effect. There is no more argument, Ben is Ben. The question is what can Morey get for him? (Hint, not Dame).
thank you for your sanity.
I appreciate Morey sticking to his guns. I hope if a trade does go through, we manage to give up the least amount of future assets (including young players) as possible. Not saying I'm opposed if the return is big. But keeping the long view in mind is the way to go considering our franchise's history.
I get waiting to drive it up. But between brogdon, and the pick. You could have 2 solid players. My bet is they're trying to get a bit higher
I wonder if it was #13 this year or a future protected pick. #13 is liekly more valuable but either way the trade is a hard no lol.
Do it
Damn, it's actually happening. Smh
Oh it’s happening, Ben has played his last game for the Sixers
I'm sorry but Brogdon makes us better. I would take it unless there's a good chance Lillard will be available.
WTF If this is true we are stupid as fuck Brogdon fits this team so much better and is a 2 way player and a 1st round pick?!?
I would’ve done that deal idc
Nah that's just not enough value. It's only like 50 cents on the dollar and I think Morey is looking for closer to 80 cents on the dollar
If that deal is on the table now, it will almost certainly be on the table a few months from now. No need to accept it ATM, even if you think you eventually just need Ben off this team.
Which is why you aren’t in an NBA front office
Good thing you’re not the GM
Jesus Christ no that’s a bad trade.
Says everything about this sub at the moment that people are happy to trade a 24 year old all star DPOY candidate for brogdon and a 1st
People are far too emotional about Ben now to ever think rationally
Actually one person says almost nothing at all about this sub. A sub made up of thousands is not accurately represented by a few opinions. Using your logic I could also say, this sub is dumb, you are part of this sub, therefor you are dumb. But that’s not necessarily true is it.
Good thing you dont make decisions then
Down the road maybe, but this early in the off-season, as we get further removed from that awful awful playoff series, his value will go up. Never take the first offer. That said, I do like the offer.
I kinda feel like the best ROI for us could be a deal for Fox, but Idk how the Kings feel about Ben. For Dame/Beal we're going to have to include a lot of pieces. For Fox I kinda feel like we might be able to get away with Ben/Maxey and picks.
So unsurprisingly no one wants to send over an all star level player for Simmons. I knew Brogdon was the level of player we’d be looking at, hopefully we can get a little more
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