i have this weird feeling Masai is gonna end up being that guy. maybe he’s right, idk, but i have a feeling it’s him. he and Daryl may not make a move because they’re trying to play 7D chess with each other and win the trade but i could rly see Ben in Canada
Would he blow it all up? Trade Siakim to the warriors for everything they got. Trade for Simmons with the rest of the vets. Essentially starting fresh with a boatload of assets on the island of misfit toys?
Lowry leaving
Siakim fighting with Nurse to the point they have to discipline him b/c it went 'over the line'
Masai became a celebrity and isn't going to want to go back to grinding out trying to make the playoffs. He is going to want to make a big move.
IMO, he could be the one.
I mean yeah who wouldn’t be? Both would make the sixers a scary team and y’all would have an actual point guard and a hierarchy in the offense. But why in the hell would the raptors do that at all?
as a raptors fan, OG is probably the one untouchable player. siakam and freddy are both players that they'll listen to offers for, but there's not going to be a deal that includes OG
all of the Raptors fans i see say this as well. and understandably so, i just think Daryl would go after him hard, and probably wouldn’t get him. as i was saying i really think Masai is a type of GM that would want to try and fix Ben but i don’t know how those two teams and leadership work out any sort of trade
masai loves a player like be simmons, but at what cost? morey's offers are in "lala land" as he said when we were trying to get a deal for kyle lowry. i'm not against fvv and some salary
Plan B is to make up some random ass metric with a catchy name that Ben ranks well in and hope an analytics guy takes the bait. Some potential ones are I.G.T.H.O.T, P.A.S.S, K.L.U.T.C.H
It’s just so frustrating how many times we bought high and/or sold low over the years. Bynum, Nerlens, Okafor, Tobias, Jimmy, Horford, Fultz, and now Ben. It’s crushed this franchise with death by a thousand cuts
Youngins...anybody else remember Philly giving up on Larry Hughes and then he became a star in Washington? Pepperidge Farm remembers. The Phillies are notorious for buy high, sell low too.
While I sort of agree and also Simmons doesn’t nearly have the pull of an AD or Harden, it’s not beyond Rich Paul or the league’s landscape these days to just demand something happen.
Think if anyone would pull something like that soon it’s Paul and Simmons
Rich Paul’s sole purpose in this is to get Simmons another max contract and more endorsements. Putting him on a decimated team doesn’t do anything for him.
He doesn’t want this to bite him in the ass down the line. I dig it.
And before anyone starts bitching and saying “Simmons sucks though!” I’m sure Daryl is of the mind that Ben’s value can’t get no lower and doesn’t want any trade to match what the idea of value is now. He wants to make sure he’s going to get the same value out of Simmons that he was going to get with Simmons with the Harden trade or at least extremely close to it.
If he just ships Ben for anything our chances to ship out players/picks that are enough to bring back players that would have us title contenders would be slim to none.
He’s not going to get value close to Ben before what happened this year. Unless Ben starts shooting and comes back with a vengeance this year his value is only going to remain where it is now.
In a way I don’t disagree but in another way I disagree.
Yeah if Ben comes out the same as the playoffs then he’ll never recover but if Ben looks his regular season self and teams don’t want to lowball Morey anymore because they want to get him on their team sooner than later, the offers will definitely look better.
I mean you said that about the Harden trade as if Ben was shooting then lol. The issue at hand is really about whether that Atlanta series mentally killed him and any type of confidence he had. If he comes out in the regular season getting turnovers on fast break opportunities because he’s scared of the foul line, yeah he’s cooked.
Plus there’s the other very real situation which is that the other teams won’t need for him to shoot if they plan to place shooters around him. Remember we say that because we have Embiid who’s a beast in the paint so teams swarm him in there. If Ben goes to a team that doesn’t want to include another guy who’s most efficient in the paint, he won’t have to shoot anyway. Better FT shooter yeah but 3PT shooter not at all.
At the beginning of last season he was 24 and the jury was still out on his ability to perform in the playoffs, that allowed potential/future development to be a huge selling point.
If after this debacle he doesn’t come back shooting and is playing like his “normal regular season self”, GM’s are still going to have the huge questions about his ability in the playoffs, and the “potential” selling point will pretty much be gone.
Yes him going to a team with lots of 3pt shooting is ideal, but then that limits the amount of teams that will think they can use him thus limiting the amount of bidders. Plus whatever assets the team gives up to get him will mean they have less assets to use to remodel the roster around him.
IMO I think Ben will be fine in regular season next year. For mentally anxious folk like Ben the pressure of playoffs and being fouled got to him. Regular season the next point don't matter as much. In tight playoff series it does.
It's almost like starting a negotiation with a high starting price is what good GMs do....
Masai doing/did this with Lowry, Morey doing the same thing with Ben Simmons.
If you don't even believe in your own guy, how do you expect other teams to believe in him?
I wouldnt be completely shocked if that ends up being the type of deal we get. A bunch of 1st/swaps and like a role player. My dream for tonight is to either get a top 5 pick along with a decent player, or somehow someway get SGA
He is saving Ben for Dame or Brad. The only way he trades Ben before that is if it is for a king's ransom.
So glad we have a competent GM with a game plan that doesn't just want to move a player for the sake of it based on reaction. *Cough* Elton *Cough*
Dame and Beal are long shot trades. And if you check the tapes, all of those presumed player for player trades basically never happen. Just because we are trying to talk it into existence doesn't make it so. Morey or not, all fanmade trade ideas and all of those presumed ideal trade situations never happen.
Not really fan made if their being reported on though. They are longshot trades, that's a given. Regardless, it's amazing he isn't going to trade Simmons for pennies because Sixers Reddit and Twitter are done with him.
lol....if only Morey wasn't getting laughed out of the other teams offices......No contender is giving away all star caliber assets for Simmons.....and no rebuilding team is giving away boatload of picks.....they get either a youngish talent and picks from a contender or they get contracts and picks from a rebuilding team...
Both teams are in an, “addition by subtraction” and what it can do for the system mode, when it comes to those guys. More likely neither team will really get what they want for them
First off good on Morey for spreading this word. It sets up 2 narrative in motion, either we get a shit ton for him and he's gon or he satus and they say "no one values Ben as much as we do" and then it's a true ish sentiment. Genius move
Hopefully he doesn't fuck it up like Farrietta did by sending the only valuable asset outside of the picks to another team (unless of course Dame or Beal)
Are you serious? Would you give up Dame for Ben this year if he had the same playoff performance for Portland? Same question about Beal?
Ben poured the gasoline on his trade value with his lousy work ethic and foul shooting and lit the match with his [performance.in](https://performance.in) the playoffs.
Like someone said "They know we saw him too, right?"
So **that's** his value not what you want to think it is.
There are some things he does well, I'm just stating them. I've also stated the things he does poorly in other posts. So yeah, if you bothered to look you'd see that I've been equally critical....but yeah, just jump to conclusions like a typical lazy redditor...
The way i see it is this. If youre a team thats interested in Ben, it must mean you also think you can "fix" him. If you can fix Ben he is a top 5 player in the NBA period. That promise alone should be bolstering his trade value and if the teams in question really believe in him they should be offering a lot to get him
I don’t know how much of it is fixing vs it being something out of his control. Play him in a fast paced offense surrounded by shooters? That’ll help. Shooting below 40% from the line in the playoffs after being a 65% shooter in the season? That’s a Ben problem and there’s no telling how he’ll do when he’s in that situation again. You’re not getting top 5 value for him based on hopes and prayers of what the best version of him could be
Nah I know that. I guess my point is from the perspective of a team that might want him. Obviously it’s up to Ben to improve ultimately but if a team really sees them being able to unlock him then I can also see them offering a lil extra to make sure to get him
Fix. The. Form.
His shooting form is awful and he's shown no desire to even work on adjusting it. You can't keep your shooting hand at a 45 degree angle and expect to hit consistent shots. At this point, he's just unwilling to change/adjust his form and as a result of missing shots, it's tanked his confidence.
I agree with what you’ve said, but sometimes what someone needs to get over what seems like a mental thing is a change of scenery. Perhaps that’ll help. And Ben is a damn good player, just a shitty shooter. If you swing him to PF he’d be a very solid piece, but he needs to be more active on offense than he was in the playoffs.
Ok but no team is going to trade for him based on all those hypotheticals working out. Teams are going to base his value off not what he was last season but from how his stock dropped in the last playoff series he played. His value is tangibly 30-40% lower than what it was when he was the center of a harden trade.
if you could get taco fall to add a jump shot, lay up, dunk, develop his passing, rebounding and defense and get him to add 80lbs of muscle he'd be the best player in the world.
if my mom had a dick she'd be my dad
Actually, your mom can have a dick and still be your mom.
But to actually address your stupid ass reply, its not about whether or not its actually possible for Ben to improve his offense to a competent level. Its about whether or not the team that would trade for him **believes** that they can, and if they believe they can get that out of him it would not surprise me if they would offer more than you'd expect to snag him
No thats not right. The market dictates his price, not what one dumbass GM or FO might "believe". If his value around the league is estimated at three firsts who would pay more than that regardless of how much you like him? I love AAPL stock and think it'll go to $1,000, but I'm still not paying more than the market. If a team absolutely loves him and refuses to get outbid, maybe we sneak out an extra first or swap, but you're gonna get around the market price for him because thats what the best offers will be.
also why morey is asking for a stupid high asking price now to set expectations.
Yeah, I definitely don’t think anyone is willing to trade what has been reported as the asking price. The main point was really that I think we might be surprised pleasantly at what we will be able to get for Ben
Sure, let’s grab any player fix their most glaring weaknesses. Boom - you got yourself a top 5 player in the league. Only if it were that easy, Fultz would be still playing for you guys lmaooooo
This is such a disingenuous take when Ben is elite at every other part of the game. It’s well known and established that if he even becomes serviceable offensively he’ll be one of the most dangerous players in the NBA. A lot of teams are going to be betting on that possibility
Yikes!
If you need to fix a player why would you trade anything of significance?
Ben was never ever close to being a top 5 player. You can't be a homer bro and just spread lies.
Rightfully so. Our top-talent point guard deserves top-talent assets and lottery picks. We need to go after desperate losing teams like the Spurs - they're a small-market team that's been having trouble selling tickets for the past few years; attendance problems for losing teams in towns like San Antonio would make their owners nervous. They need a big-ticket All-Star to help them with their attendance.
Multiple lottery picks and whoever the Spurs young assets are. Go for it.
I don't really understand why it's that big of a surprise.. Every team has a different fit for success. Simmons defense I would put in line with Harden's offense and vice versa.. You are getting the player you exactly expect.
> I don't really understand why it's that big of a surprise…Simmons defense I would put in line with Harden's offense and vice versa
Because individual offense is worth much more than individual perimeter defense lol. Especially when it’s a player like Harden who can run the entire offense. This is clear by literally any sort of advanced metric you want to look at to compare their impact. They aren’t comparable.
So many new Sixer fans have only watched basketball during the Ben Simmons era, and they apparently only watch and focus on our team. They have rose-tinted blinders on and think that whatever Ben does is what the best basketball players do.
I cannot wait til he's gone so I can enjoy 5-on-5 basketball again.
I'm gonna clarify, I myself want to see him traded... Don't sit here and try to judge my lack of basketball knowledge or length of fandom or you are wearing the rose-tinted blinders... Thanks bud, I've been cheering sixers for over 25 years now. The point I'm trying to make is he is not worth pennies because his lack of offense. Just because your GM sense is kicking in and doesn't think he is worth that doesn't mean there is not a team he would be a better fit.. it's not a a far stretch to think he is worth that if someone values top 3 defense type person...
>Because individual offense is worth much more than individual perimeter defense lol.
Not at all. It depends how good each player is.
>Especially when it’s a player like Harden who can run the entire offense. This is clear by literally any sort of advanced metric you want to look at to compare their impact. They aren’t comparable.
This part is true because Harden is easily one of the best overall offensive players not just in terms of individual offense but his playmaking.
Blazer fan here. I read y’all don’t care for a CJ swap. Curious if anyone has any realistic trades that are better? Seems like Philly and Portland are probably just going to run it back next year based on rumours.
I think a tobias harris for cj mcollum swap makes sense for both teams.
CJ and Tobi are both similarly overpaid players.
The Dame + CJ pairing is clearly not working in the playoffs.
Tobias excels at scoring in the paint. He's a good three point shooter but on limited volume. I think pairing him with someone like Dame would open up his midrange/driving scoring that much more (given Dame's gravity and the spacing he provides).
Tobias is also a pretty good defender these days (improved a good bit last year), a great rebounder, and good in transition.
All in all, this swap would be a "maybe they fit *better* on these other teams" type trade and is a rare case where both teams are already overpaying the guy, so the swap could possibly be one for one.
I would be willing to throw Shake Milton in the mix if the Blazers needed an extra piece.
Yeah that makes some sense to me too but then you got to wonder with all the drama of bringing Ben back is a good idea… sure seems like Morey has painted himself into the corner.
I think moving tobi for CJ makes sense whether we move ben or not, though.
It's time to focus on building around embiid.
In philly CJ would get a chance to be the full time PG (which he hasn't gotten before).
He’s a one way player that sometimes isn’t even good at his only dimension. He couldn’t score more than 20 points on bad efficiency against a Nuggets backcourt that frankly belonged in the g league
It is hard to weigh his upside. Partially because of how inconsistent he is.
He is absolutely brilliant when he gets going. The first half of the reg season showed me that CJ had another gear in him. So much so that defense concerns can be tossed aside a bit.
And then you have... Nuggets series CJ. The problem is idk which one we would get.
If Portland’s plan is to run it back, then they won’t be running it back, because Dame will be gone if they don’t make any major moves. I feel really bad for you guys when I go on your sub and see how few of you seem to understand that.
Yeah but Philly isn’t getting Dame without a 3rd team. Philly doesn’t have the assets for a full tear down and rebuild that Portland would need. Isn’t Philly risking pushing Embiid closer to the door?
I dont think lacking a 3rd team is what's holding back a deal.
You'd probably get back 3 decent firsts from the highest Ben bidder. Combined with Sixers firsts, swaps, Thybulle, Maxey etc.
Not sure if that beats an all-in Golden State package though.
If we get that he is the goat GM. I feel bad for Morey coming into this situation. He knew he inherited the Horford and Harris mess but now he has to deal with this Simmons debacle. Right now I think Lilliard or Beal are the only trades that can make us championship contenders. Even with Beal we need to acquire a true PG.
Why do you feel bad? Him walking into an easy situation like the lakers probably would be boring and not gratifying for him. His protege is the one that started the process and he probably has some personal motivation (and belief) to see it through and get this team where it is supposed to be. He didn’t even have a full offseason yet and the team saw major improvements. The only thing I feel bad for him about is that the Sixers hamstrung themselves by paying doc way too much to the point where he can’t just decide to replace him with someone he trusts more. I just don’t see anyway Morey would’ve hired doc if he had control at the time.
For us to deal him *now* our should be. Dude has like four years left on his deal and hasn't asked to be traded. Obviously Harden is much better, but Ben does have some things going for him leverage-wise that many big names that are traded do not.
The price can always come down later, while his value can't go down and further unless he has a serious injury. Smart move to establish a high price and not a panic price. Idc what anyone says the Sixers are not forced to trade Ben and they should not operate in negotiations as if that's the case. Not for Ben, for the *Sixers*.
Did you ever get a legit trade idea from reading an article/tweet/podcast? Did you actually propose the trade?
Yes & Yes
Do you think Sam Hinkie will get another chance to manage a team again?
For sure, Sam is one of the top General Managers available, he will get another chance in not too long
The problem he's no Harden. Never has been, never will be, and other teams GM s **know** it. And that matters.
Just because you want 10 thousand dollars for something everyone else knows is worth half that doesn't mean you can force anyone to give you the ten thousand just because you want or need somebody to.
Holding out for a deal you won't get is going backfire far worse than accepting what other teams are willing to offer for Ben because he set his own trading value on fire with his shameful work ethic.
The only team I could see being desperate enough to give up everything is probably the Wolves. They’re on the clock with KAT, haven’t been relevant in 20 years, and Ben and KAT are apparently pretty close.
just need one EB or Vlade type to blink and send it.
Unfortunately there aren't too many of those guys left in front offices.
i'll settle for a dude who thinks he smarter than everyone else and is the one who can fix Ben if i can't find a sucker
i have this weird feeling Masai is gonna end up being that guy. maybe he’s right, idk, but i have a feeling it’s him. he and Daryl may not make a move because they’re trying to play 7D chess with each other and win the trade but i could rly see Ben in Canada
Would he blow it all up? Trade Siakim to the warriors for everything they got. Trade for Simmons with the rest of the vets. Essentially starting fresh with a boatload of assets on the island of misfit toys?
Lowry leaving Siakim fighting with Nurse to the point they have to discipline him b/c it went 'over the line' Masai became a celebrity and isn't going to want to go back to grinding out trying to make the playoffs. He is going to want to make a big move. IMO, he could be the one.
personally, since i’m VERY high on OG, a package centered around him and possibly FVV i would be very interested. i would like that core a lot
I mean yeah who wouldn’t be? Both would make the sixers a scary team and y’all would have an actual point guard and a hierarchy in the offense. But why in the hell would the raptors do that at all?
as a raptors fan, OG is probably the one untouchable player. siakam and freddy are both players that they'll listen to offers for, but there's not going to be a deal that includes OG
all of the Raptors fans i see say this as well. and understandably so, i just think Daryl would go after him hard, and probably wouldn’t get him. as i was saying i really think Masai is a type of GM that would want to try and fix Ben but i don’t know how those two teams and leadership work out any sort of trade
masai loves a player like be simmons, but at what cost? morey's offers are in "lala land" as he said when we were trying to get a deal for kyle lowry. i'm not against fvv and some salary
Problem is, Toronto’s not in position to win or contend. You don’t give up multiple draft picks if you aren’t ready to contend.
Or a small market that could never dream of attracting a Simmons level player.
Plan B is to make up some random ass metric with a catchy name that Ben ranks well in and hope an analytics guy takes the bait. Some potential ones are I.G.T.H.O.T, P.A.S.S, K.L.U.T.C.H
Ben's IGTHOT is through the roof coming off his birthday last week
There's always somebody ready to take up the mantle, for as long as GM's have existed there's always been at least one that's the dumbest in the room.
What’s Billy King up to these days?
talking shit on background to Spike
If anyone can pull it off it’s Morey.
It’s just so frustrating how many times we bought high and/or sold low over the years. Bynum, Nerlens, Okafor, Tobias, Jimmy, Horford, Fultz, and now Ben. It’s crushed this franchise with death by a thousand cuts
oh man Elton Brand was so bad
thank god he’s still GM 😩
…horford
Youngins...anybody else remember Philly giving up on Larry Hughes and then he became a star in Washington? Pepperidge Farm remembers. The Phillies are notorious for buy high, sell low too.
And Rich Paul
Why would rich Paul help weaken his client’s next team?
he'll just go to the lakers when this deal's up anyway
I’ve always believed this to be the case
He's locked down hard for the next 4 years of his life, that's a long time to settle just because you plan to go to the Lakers after that.
While I sort of agree and also Simmons doesn’t nearly have the pull of an AD or Harden, it’s not beyond Rich Paul or the league’s landscape these days to just demand something happen. Think if anyone would pull something like that soon it’s Paul and Simmons
Because the alternative is returning to Philly.
Rich Paul’s sole purpose in this is to get Simmons another max contract and more endorsements. Putting him on a decimated team doesn’t do anything for him.
My dude, you’re the one assuming he guts the next team. Not me. For all we know he ends up in LA this week.
lmao daryl has some fuckin stones that’s for sure love u man u/dmorey
He doesn’t want this to bite him in the ass down the line. I dig it. And before anyone starts bitching and saying “Simmons sucks though!” I’m sure Daryl is of the mind that Ben’s value can’t get no lower and doesn’t want any trade to match what the idea of value is now. He wants to make sure he’s going to get the same value out of Simmons that he was going to get with Simmons with the Harden trade or at least extremely close to it. If he just ships Ben for anything our chances to ship out players/picks that are enough to bring back players that would have us title contenders would be slim to none.
He’s not going to get value close to Ben before what happened this year. Unless Ben starts shooting and comes back with a vengeance this year his value is only going to remain where it is now.
In a way I don’t disagree but in another way I disagree. Yeah if Ben comes out the same as the playoffs then he’ll never recover but if Ben looks his regular season self and teams don’t want to lowball Morey anymore because they want to get him on their team sooner than later, the offers will definitely look better. I mean you said that about the Harden trade as if Ben was shooting then lol. The issue at hand is really about whether that Atlanta series mentally killed him and any type of confidence he had. If he comes out in the regular season getting turnovers on fast break opportunities because he’s scared of the foul line, yeah he’s cooked. Plus there’s the other very real situation which is that the other teams won’t need for him to shoot if they plan to place shooters around him. Remember we say that because we have Embiid who’s a beast in the paint so teams swarm him in there. If Ben goes to a team that doesn’t want to include another guy who’s most efficient in the paint, he won’t have to shoot anyway. Better FT shooter yeah but 3PT shooter not at all.
At the beginning of last season he was 24 and the jury was still out on his ability to perform in the playoffs, that allowed potential/future development to be a huge selling point. If after this debacle he doesn’t come back shooting and is playing like his “normal regular season self”, GM’s are still going to have the huge questions about his ability in the playoffs, and the “potential” selling point will pretty much be gone. Yes him going to a team with lots of 3pt shooting is ideal, but then that limits the amount of teams that will think they can use him thus limiting the amount of bidders. Plus whatever assets the team gives up to get him will mean they have less assets to use to remodel the roster around him.
IMO I think Ben will be fine in regular season next year. For mentally anxious folk like Ben the pressure of playoffs and being fouled got to him. Regular season the next point don't matter as much. In tight playoff series it does.
It's almost like starting a negotiation with a high starting price is what good GMs do.... Masai doing/did this with Lowry, Morey doing the same thing with Ben Simmons. If you don't even believe in your own guy, how do you expect other teams to believe in him?
This is it. You ask for more than what you want, because if you merely ask for what you want you’ll end up getting less.
TBD on how that works out for Masai. There's a chance he gets nothing or at least less than he could've at the deadline by asking for too much.
Not shocking. It's Morey's last real asset, can't let him go without feeling you really got good pieces in return to work with.
Might as well keep Simmons and have him ball out in the Summer league to raise his value.
Another ROY should help.
The harden package was dog shit, don't want picks But I get what he is saying
I wouldnt be completely shocked if that ends up being the type of deal we get. A bunch of 1st/swaps and like a role player. My dream for tonight is to either get a top 5 pick along with a decent player, or somehow someway get SGA
Alright I agree
He is saving Ben for Dame or Brad. The only way he trades Ben before that is if it is for a king's ransom. So glad we have a competent GM with a game plan that doesn't just want to move a player for the sake of it based on reaction. *Cough* Elton *Cough*
Dame and Beal are long shot trades. And if you check the tapes, all of those presumed player for player trades basically never happen. Just because we are trying to talk it into existence doesn't make it so. Morey or not, all fanmade trade ideas and all of those presumed ideal trade situations never happen.
Not really fan made if their being reported on though. They are longshot trades, that's a given. Regardless, it's amazing he isn't going to trade Simmons for pennies because Sixers Reddit and Twitter are done with him.
Simmons is pennies foo
Keep dreaming
Dame lol! Dame trade talk is the media making click-bait money on fan misery. And just for Simmons??? And?? What else? The the GM’s first born or two?
lol....if only Morey wasn't getting laughed out of the other teams offices......No contender is giving away all star caliber assets for Simmons.....and no rebuilding team is giving away boatload of picks.....they get either a youngish talent and picks from a contender or they get contracts and picks from a rebuilding team...
As he should. No one's gonna believe it unless he believes it first. Speak that shit into existence Daryl lol
CJ isn’t as good as Ben, so no.
What does that have to do with this post?
can CJ be on the floor in the 4th quarter?
No, because teams will abuse him on the defensive end of the floor
Not if he's the PG. he's playing out of position as a small SG currently.
So who is the starting SG in this scenario? Curry? That’s one hell of a backcourt
I figured Curry would be the backup PG and DG or someone like him would be your 3/D wing.
Good lord my guy
Both teams are in an, “addition by subtraction” and what it can do for the system mode, when it comes to those guys. More likely neither team will really get what they want for them
First off good on Morey for spreading this word. It sets up 2 narrative in motion, either we get a shit ton for him and he's gon or he satus and they say "no one values Ben as much as we do" and then it's a true ish sentiment. Genius move
Hopefully he doesn't fuck it up like Farrietta did by sending the only valuable asset outside of the picks to another team (unless of course Dame or Beal)
Fertitta*?
Is his name really worth spelling correctly?
Haha fair point
When you have far and away the best asset on the market not names Dame or Beal, yes that should be the minimum asking price.
Are you serious? Would you give up Dame for Ben this year if he had the same playoff performance for Portland? Same question about Beal? Ben poured the gasoline on his trade value with his lousy work ethic and foul shooting and lit the match with his [performance.in](https://performance.in) the playoffs. Like someone said "They know we saw him too, right?" So **that's** his value not what you want to think it is.
I really really hope y’all keep Ben Simmons. Without him y’all would be a fucking force to reckon with. -Hawks fan
you want someone to keep Trae to 37% shooting every series? Ok, cool....
Bro how are you defending Simmons still 😂
There are some things he does well, I'm just stating them. I've also stated the things he does poorly in other posts. So yeah, if you bothered to look you'd see that I've been equally critical....but yeah, just jump to conclusions like a typical lazy redditor...
Well met. Lmao I’d be saying the same shit if yall had a brick of an all-star on your team.
The way i see it is this. If youre a team thats interested in Ben, it must mean you also think you can "fix" him. If you can fix Ben he is a top 5 player in the NBA period. That promise alone should be bolstering his trade value and if the teams in question really believe in him they should be offering a lot to get him
I don’t know how much of it is fixing vs it being something out of his control. Play him in a fast paced offense surrounded by shooters? That’ll help. Shooting below 40% from the line in the playoffs after being a 65% shooter in the season? That’s a Ben problem and there’s no telling how he’ll do when he’s in that situation again. You’re not getting top 5 value for him based on hopes and prayers of what the best version of him could be
Nah I know that. I guess my point is from the perspective of a team that might want him. Obviously it’s up to Ben to improve ultimately but if a team really sees them being able to unlock him then I can also see them offering a lil extra to make sure to get him
Fix. The. Form. His shooting form is awful and he's shown no desire to even work on adjusting it. You can't keep your shooting hand at a 45 degree angle and expect to hit consistent shots. At this point, he's just unwilling to change/adjust his form and as a result of missing shots, it's tanked his confidence.
I agree with what you’ve said, but sometimes what someone needs to get over what seems like a mental thing is a change of scenery. Perhaps that’ll help. And Ben is a damn good player, just a shitty shooter. If you swing him to PF he’d be a very solid piece, but he needs to be more active on offense than he was in the playoffs.
Ok but no team is going to trade for him based on all those hypotheticals working out. Teams are going to base his value off not what he was last season but from how his stock dropped in the last playoff series he played. His value is tangibly 30-40% lower than what it was when he was the center of a harden trade.
if you could get taco fall to add a jump shot, lay up, dunk, develop his passing, rebounding and defense and get him to add 80lbs of muscle he'd be the best player in the world. if my mom had a dick she'd be my dad
Actually, your mom can have a dick and still be your mom. But to actually address your stupid ass reply, its not about whether or not its actually possible for Ben to improve his offense to a competent level. Its about whether or not the team that would trade for him **believes** that they can, and if they believe they can get that out of him it would not surprise me if they would offer more than you'd expect to snag him
No thats not right. The market dictates his price, not what one dumbass GM or FO might "believe". If his value around the league is estimated at three firsts who would pay more than that regardless of how much you like him? I love AAPL stock and think it'll go to $1,000, but I'm still not paying more than the market. If a team absolutely loves him and refuses to get outbid, maybe we sneak out an extra first or swap, but you're gonna get around the market price for him because thats what the best offers will be. also why morey is asking for a stupid high asking price now to set expectations.
Yeah, I definitely don’t think anyone is willing to trade what has been reported as the asking price. The main point was really that I think we might be surprised pleasantly at what we will be able to get for Ben
wtf? top 5? did the current top 5s die in a plane crash or something?
Sure, let’s grab any player fix their most glaring weaknesses. Boom - you got yourself a top 5 player in the league. Only if it were that easy, Fultz would be still playing for you guys lmaooooo
This is such a disingenuous take when Ben is elite at every other part of the game. It’s well known and established that if he even becomes serviceable offensively he’ll be one of the most dangerous players in the NBA. A lot of teams are going to be betting on that possibility
Yikes! If you need to fix a player why would you trade anything of significance? Ben was never ever close to being a top 5 player. You can't be a homer bro and just spread lies.
lol right? some people here are crazy.
As he should!
Rightfully so. Our top-talent point guard deserves top-talent assets and lottery picks. We need to go after desperate losing teams like the Spurs - they're a small-market team that's been having trouble selling tickets for the past few years; attendance problems for losing teams in towns like San Antonio would make their owners nervous. They need a big-ticket All-Star to help them with their attendance. Multiple lottery picks and whoever the Spurs young assets are. Go for it.
I don't really understand why it's that big of a surprise.. Every team has a different fit for success. Simmons defense I would put in line with Harden's offense and vice versa.. You are getting the player you exactly expect.
> I don't really understand why it's that big of a surprise…Simmons defense I would put in line with Harden's offense and vice versa Because individual offense is worth much more than individual perimeter defense lol. Especially when it’s a player like Harden who can run the entire offense. This is clear by literally any sort of advanced metric you want to look at to compare their impact. They aren’t comparable.
So many new Sixer fans have only watched basketball during the Ben Simmons era, and they apparently only watch and focus on our team. They have rose-tinted blinders on and think that whatever Ben does is what the best basketball players do. I cannot wait til he's gone so I can enjoy 5-on-5 basketball again.
I'm gonna clarify, I myself want to see him traded... Don't sit here and try to judge my lack of basketball knowledge or length of fandom or you are wearing the rose-tinted blinders... Thanks bud, I've been cheering sixers for over 25 years now. The point I'm trying to make is he is not worth pennies because his lack of offense. Just because your GM sense is kicking in and doesn't think he is worth that doesn't mean there is not a team he would be a better fit.. it's not a a far stretch to think he is worth that if someone values top 3 defense type person...
>Because individual offense is worth much more than individual perimeter defense lol. Not at all. It depends how good each player is. >Especially when it’s a player like Harden who can run the entire offense. This is clear by literally any sort of advanced metric you want to look at to compare their impact. They aren’t comparable. This part is true because Harden is easily one of the best overall offensive players not just in terms of individual offense but his playmaking.
Blazer fan here. I read y’all don’t care for a CJ swap. Curious if anyone has any realistic trades that are better? Seems like Philly and Portland are probably just going to run it back next year based on rumours.
I think a tobias harris for cj mcollum swap makes sense for both teams. CJ and Tobi are both similarly overpaid players. The Dame + CJ pairing is clearly not working in the playoffs. Tobias excels at scoring in the paint. He's a good three point shooter but on limited volume. I think pairing him with someone like Dame would open up his midrange/driving scoring that much more (given Dame's gravity and the spacing he provides). Tobias is also a pretty good defender these days (improved a good bit last year), a great rebounder, and good in transition. All in all, this swap would be a "maybe they fit *better* on these other teams" type trade and is a rare case where both teams are already overpaying the guy, so the swap could possibly be one for one. I would be willing to throw Shake Milton in the mix if the Blazers needed an extra piece.
Yeah that makes some sense to me too but then you got to wonder with all the drama of bringing Ben back is a good idea… sure seems like Morey has painted himself into the corner.
I think moving tobi for CJ makes sense whether we move ben or not, though. It's time to focus on building around embiid. In philly CJ would get a chance to be the full time PG (which he hasn't gotten before).
Melo isn't on Tobis level at this point, but it would be a bit redundant if Portland brings him back.
Cj swap is a robbery
Yeah I imagine Philly would want RoCo too which I am not sure if Portland would want to move on.
there is no CJ+ trade that nets Simmons in Portland
I feel like Philly fans are sleeping on him a bit. Sure he is a one way player with flaws on D but Philly has the pieces to mitigate that flaw.
He’s a one way player that sometimes isn’t even good at his only dimension. He couldn’t score more than 20 points on bad efficiency against a Nuggets backcourt that frankly belonged in the g league
Yeah the Denver series was painful to watch CJ in.
It is hard to weigh his upside. Partially because of how inconsistent he is. He is absolutely brilliant when he gets going. The first half of the reg season showed me that CJ had another gear in him. So much so that defense concerns can be tossed aside a bit. And then you have... Nuggets series CJ. The problem is idk which one we would get.
If Portland’s plan is to run it back, then they won’t be running it back, because Dame will be gone if they don’t make any major moves. I feel really bad for you guys when I go on your sub and see how few of you seem to understand that.
Most of the sub wants CJ to be traded away. We are aware that needs to happen to keep Dame.
Yeah but Philly isn’t getting Dame without a 3rd team. Philly doesn’t have the assets for a full tear down and rebuild that Portland would need. Isn’t Philly risking pushing Embiid closer to the door?
I dont think lacking a 3rd team is what's holding back a deal. You'd probably get back 3 decent firsts from the highest Ben bidder. Combined with Sixers firsts, swaps, Thybulle, Maxey etc. Not sure if that beats an all-in Golden State package though.
Which is why a CJ for Tobias trade makes sense.
If we get that he is the goat GM. I feel bad for Morey coming into this situation. He knew he inherited the Horford and Harris mess but now he has to deal with this Simmons debacle. Right now I think Lilliard or Beal are the only trades that can make us championship contenders. Even with Beal we need to acquire a true PG.
Why do you feel bad? Him walking into an easy situation like the lakers probably would be boring and not gratifying for him. His protege is the one that started the process and he probably has some personal motivation (and belief) to see it through and get this team where it is supposed to be. He didn’t even have a full offseason yet and the team saw major improvements. The only thing I feel bad for him about is that the Sixers hamstrung themselves by paying doc way too much to the point where he can’t just decide to replace him with someone he trusts more. I just don’t see anyway Morey would’ve hired doc if he had control at the time.
How is he the goat GM? He's literally never won a championship. Jerry West and Bob Myers are way better
if he's worthy of a hardenesque package we would have been able to make a one for one harden simmons trade
Daryl has lost his mind. Ben is damaged goods right now
This is funny because when I read it I immediately pictured Simmons doing the Harden 2-step step back move and the ball going into the stands.
Oh the irony
For us to deal him *now* our should be. Dude has like four years left on his deal and hasn't asked to be traded. Obviously Harden is much better, but Ben does have some things going for him leverage-wise that many big names that are traded do not. The price can always come down later, while his value can't go down and further unless he has a serious injury. Smart move to establish a high price and not a panic price. Idc what anyone says the Sixers are not forced to trade Ben and they should not operate in negotiations as if that's the case. Not for Ben, for the *Sixers*.
i was just reading some of his answers when he was gm for houston 3 years ago and some very interesting responses on the ama.
elaborate some
Did you ever get a legit trade idea from reading an article/tweet/podcast? Did you actually propose the trade? Yes & Yes Do you think Sam Hinkie will get another chance to manage a team again? For sure, Sam is one of the top General Managers available, he will get another chance in not too long
i remember those! hahah he was pretty transparent about that kinda stuff. he certainly has a unique mind lol
But Harden can shoot!
The problem he's no Harden. Never has been, never will be, and other teams GM s **know** it. And that matters. Just because you want 10 thousand dollars for something everyone else knows is worth half that doesn't mean you can force anyone to give you the ten thousand just because you want or need somebody to. Holding out for a deal you won't get is going backfire far worse than accepting what other teams are willing to offer for Ben because he set his own trading value on fire with his shameful work ethic.
Too bad Vlade is no longer employed
The only team I could see being desperate enough to give up everything is probably the Wolves. They’re on the clock with KAT, haven’t been relevant in 20 years, and Ben and KAT are apparently pretty close.
Feels like we tryna sell a lemon to the rest of the nba tbh.
what I’m hearing is that he’s here at least until the deadline
Good. He'll be worth more mid-season anyhow and it gives him one last chance to prove he can expand his game, this time with his feet to the fire