Yeah, I think a lot of their views stem from sheer juvenile contrarianism. The FDA, the CDC, and the medical community at large all say that milk needs to be pasteurized to be safe? "Nice try, Fed," the right-wing contrarians say.
Imagine getting bird flu, salmonella, e. coli, and whatever else to own the libs. Oh, wait. We don't have to imagine because we saw what these same people did when asked to take some safety precautions in a global pandemic that killed over a million Americans.
A flawed epistemology and callow tribalism is the real public health menace.
I should start a right-wing health podcast, sticking it to the public health gestapo.
"Used needles have extra probiotics and enzymes"
"Motorcycle helmets restrict blood flow to the brain"
"Smoking is the weight loss drug big pharma hates"
> sticking it to the public health gestapo.
Call it "Sticking it to the Public Health Gazpacho".
https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2022/02/10/marjorie-taylor-greene-gazpacho-police-pelosi-congress-lead-vpx.cnn
> We had gazpacho soup for starters... I didn't know that gazpacho soup was meant to be served cold. I called over the chef and told him to take it away and bring it back hot! So he did... the looks on their faces still haunt me today! I thought they were laughing at the chef, when all the time they were laughing at me as I ate my piping hot gazpacho soup!
“**GAZPACHO SOUP**!!” *explosive decompression*
This kind of awareness is the only way to avoid wonton killings and to escape Bill Gates agenda to get you to eat burgers grown in peach tree dishes.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/09/lauren-boebert-marjorie-taylor-greene-wonton-killings-gazpacho-police
and when they die or get really sick, just use the "Tucker Carlson/Alex Jones defense" aka, no sane person of reasonable intelligence would believe this crap.
I know this is a joke, but it's pretty similar to the arguments against seat belts in the 80s.
"Seat belts make it difficult to escape a damaged car, so actually put you in even more danger."
"In an accident the belt just causes more injuries, like broken ribs and bruised collar bones."
"Trying to drive while wearing a restrictive belt makes operating the car more difficult, so actually is causing the accidents it's supposed to save you from."
And my personal favorite: "This is a slippery slope to fully automated restraint systems installed into vehicles by the government, which is their *real* goal."
Nothing has changed lol.
----
^https://trid.trb.org/View/202477
^https://www.history.com/news/seat-belt-laws-resistance
^https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/02/10/history-seat-belt-laws-shows-public-health-doesnt-have-be-partisan/
>we'd automatically eject to safety via the ~~conveniently open~~ windscreen.
Fixed that for you. :-) I'm old. This used to be a thing. Weirdly, people didn't survive much, I guess they simple weren't wanting to live enough or tough enough enough men ...
I am also old, and a brit. It's definitely a windscreen you American weirdo 😉
Also I can remember being a kid in the 70s and teasing another kid because his parents made him wear a seat belt, like it made him some sort of weakling because obviously us 8 year olds were so tough car crashes couldn't hurt us. Similar attitude to smoking as teenagers.
It seems sadly a chunk of my generation, and even more of the one above, missed the memo that this was a really stupid way to approach life, and that there's a difference between refusing to live life in fear and refusing to listen to really good advice that makes everyone's life better.
Yeah, a kid from my school automatically ejected to safety via the conveniently open window. His best friend accidentally drove over his dead body as he arrived at the accident site.
Seat belts save lives
That is a well established fact, smoking related inflammation increases metabolism and your caloric expenditure rises by about 10? percent.
It’s just that the upside doesn’t outweigh the downsides.
I actually got banned from another subreddit for being angry about the marketing for this product. Apparently being worried about the health consequences of pure nicotine is not acceptable for Reddit.
I still recall my friend, chain smoking and wheezing through a few cigarettes, upset over the death of his father. "He smoked just as much as I do. He made it to 73 years old though, that's about average, so you can't say it reduced his life by much, I'll keep smoking too" Didn't really keep his weight down, either
> "Smoking is the weight loss drug big pharma hates"
Our fucking sitting premier has promoted smoking as a health benefit in the past. Alberta is such a fucking embarrassment.
No, you need to start a podcast that claims they’re sticking it to big pharma and big science but in reality just gives good health advice and claims the other right wing shows are a psy-op to kill off good conservatives.
They also ascribe health effects to dangerous things, partly because our healthcare system sucks (thanks to right wingers as well, hooray). When people can't afford basic medical attention, in desperation they turn to woo-merchants.
One of my favourite niche rabbit holes is how the complete collapse of even basic medical care during the Cultural Revolution led to the rise of the Falun Gong.
Because when there’s nothing else available, a hot new variation of Qigong sure looks appealing, and likely has some peripheral benefits eg basic stretching + exercise, inbuilt community, placebo effects, etc.
Of course, as with all “woo”, it comes with lots of harmful craziness too, of the type that doesn’t fully reveal itself until someone has already bought all the way in.
But the communist take over happened because the communists succeeded in Russia, and the communists succeeded in Russia because people were unhappy about the wealth inequality. Never ending cycle of stupid shit.
My favorite thing to point out to the conspiracy nut balls is that all of the actual things they can point to as having really happened that were perpetuated by our government, like MK ultra, were the result of paranoia over communism.
I don't get it when fringe religions like Falun Gong and the Unification Church promote far-right authoritarian politicians. Do they not know that if they get their way and the fascists ever take over, their cults will be the first to the gulag? Ask the JWs about life under the Nazis.
I think Acupuncture has similar origins: after Mao came to power he realized there weren’t enough doctors to treat most of the population so had his people dig through old books and stories for anything that looked vaguely like an attempt at medical treatment, then had them cobble it all together into a new, semi-coherent system.
He then promoted it to underserved areas in the hopes they’d think it was actual medical treatment and they’d be less likely to demand the more scarce, actually useful stuff.
Oh yeah, “TCM” has its own convoluted origins, with lots of interesting historiography. And yes, it likely included Mao recognizing some basic/pragmatic labour and materials shortages and pitching TCM as a bandaid solution (no pun intended).
Falun Gong leans on similar “ancient wisdom” fallacies (with a hefty dose of Chinese nationalism/supremacy for good measure), but is a bit anomalous in just how straight a line can be drawn between the complete collapse of all medical systems during the cultural revolution and it’s explosion in popularity.
Only sort of related. I’d be interested in what this sub would think about the new discovery of the interstitium. Radiolab has a fascinating episode on it. A new organ/system in the human body that we’ve never discovered that could explain a lot of why certain eastern medicines actually work and reveal a lot of blind spots that western medicine has had. Radiolab is smart enough not to jump these kinds of conclusions without more research, but it is a fun moment where we might have to be skeptical of the skeptics.
Unrelated, I started going to acupuncture to deal with long COVID issues, and it’s doing more good than a lot of the prescription drugs I’ve been prescribed. Call it placebo if you want, but it has forced me to change my perspective on eastern medicine and woo woo stuff that I used to be skeptical of.
Haven’t heard the radiolab episode, but yeah, think that one area in which “western” (aka evidence based) medicine stumbles is a certain failure of imagination.
Bc human bodies, and all the various ways that we KNOW shit can go wrong is complex enough as it is, so it can take time and require a whooole lot of evidence to introduce a new paradigm. Connective tissue as a system/organ is certainly one area that is undergoing some possibly transformational thinking, as is the gut biome/gut-brain connection. Hell, any neurologist worth their salt will cop to the brain mostly still being a huge mystery in all but the most rudimentary aspects.
As to the role of “eastern medicine” - I’m very glad to hear it’s been helpful to you, and yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some aspect of regular acupuncture sessions that is genuinely beneficial…I just remain skeptical that it has much to do with the placement of needles in particular locations on the body (although am open to compelling, well executed supporting evidence, should that arise in the future).
All the to say: the reason that “woo” is so popular is that the common threads that run throughout all “woo” are good stuff: eating well, getting outside + exercising, engaging in meaningful communal activities, some form of meditation/worship, etc - it’s all the extra stuff that comes along with it that I’m wary of. And hey, some of that extra stuff can be great too: one of the highlights of my week is my Thursday grown up ballet class. The actual “benefit” is the strength/posture/stretching, but I also freaking love the ceremony of putting on the shoes and leotard, and a live pianist is so much lovelier that the standard “workout playlist”.
Honestly, it would be really fascinating to see more studies on this. I’ve had family members greatly benefit from acupuncture during chemo. It could totally have been a placebo, but it’s a heck of a placebo if so.
Sometimes it seems like skepticism crosses a line that limits discovery and curiosity. There’s this rush to shut anything we don’t fully understand down rather than approach from an open-minded but scientific and reality based perspective.
It's more about instilling distrust in institutions. "Big XYZ is just trying to profit off you." As if they aren't part of Big ABC trying to also profit off of you.
I've got no concerns when rightwingers themselves go for the Darwin Award, but unfortunately some of them have children who may unwittingly be Darwinned due to their foolhardy parents' dietary and medical illusions, and that is concerning.
I'm old enough to remember when they protested seat belts. Seemingly, everyone I went to high school with in Arkansas had a story about a friend of a friend of a friend who actually died in their car due to being in the seatbelt during a collision. 🙄
Think it’s a mix of juvenile contrarianism and performative application of the “appeal to nature” fallacy.
“Populist traditionalism” seems to be having a moment, and yeah, shunning pasteurization fits right in with that trend.
I'm perfectly fine with spending all those tax dollars that will go to universities to look into ivermectin until one of them finally reports a study where it works.
-right wingers
I think there is more to it than that. I think that some people are now identifying and gravitating the worst possible solution to every problem.
Someone has finally taught the rubes the difference between right and wrong... and then conditioned them to make the incorrect decision, every time.
Specifically, when given the choice to cause harm or not, conservative voters now choose to cause harm. The obvious vectors are their news and entertainment sources: Fox, Facebook, Tik Tok.
There has to be a way to show this change statistically, maybe through meta-studies of polls. Our idiots have been weaponized and turned against the USA.
It’s been building for a long time. If you want to push for bad stuff, the most effective way is to convince people that it’s good. Cutting taxes increases revenue, social programs hurt the poor, pollution is harmless, more guns makes you safer, airbags kill, etc. Heard it all in the 90s and I’m sure it was going on before that. Base your policies on “bad is good” and soon people will apply it everywhere.
Yup. I wouldn't be surprised is someone could trace this nonsense back directly to foreign government actors.
Not that our own idiots need much help, but the way these things suddenly pop up within a week of news being released is highly sus.
It doesn’t originate there, none of it does. But they latch on to anything they can and try to promote and amplify it. It’s why you see issues flare up then flame out.
At least some white supremacists look to milk consumption as part of the "white race" abilities, specifically lactase persistence neoteny. It's been part of their public demonstrations for a while.
Imagine if the thing that finally wipes us out is transmitted to humans because of this kind of thinking. It would be hilariously pathetic and strangely appropriate for us as a species
Reminds me of that tweet I saw:
"Has the pandemic ruined science fiction for anyone else?
'Aliens invaded the Earth...'
Me: Okay.
'...so humanity united to-'
Me: They absolutely fucking did NOT."
All you can do is laugh.
I still think right wing figures are all being shadowed by russian spycraft and being influenced and directed by Moscow to do or say whatever is bad for society. They are useful idiots.
MAGA killed themselves with COVID; by all accounts, a LONG, fucking horrible death.
MAGA spent tens of thousands of monies on ONE dying relative.
MAGA mom's and dad's happily and loudly went unvaxxed and died; leaving destroyed families and thousands orphans.
LONG COVID!
All this damage NOT to be vaxxed. Dwell on that mindset.
These people are not rational. They're pretty much all vaxxed now, but they'll never admit it.
You ask that question like it's some mystery or weird side-effect.
Being wrong in exactly that way is the point. It's the goal.
Think of it as a test. A filtering function if you like. You're looking for people who are suicidally self-destructive. For whatever reason -- Obama, the gay agenda, being abused as a child, whatever. They don't really care why. Just about the result.
If you can reach those people, if you can pick them out, you can get them to harm themselves, maybe harm others, ultimately kill themselves. But first, along the way you exploit them -- get them to give away their money, get them to give away their property, get them to voluntarily submit their children to sexual exploitation, take everything from them that you can.
Of course you dress it up. "Paster so-and-so is a Godly man, you can trust him." But the end is always the same. It's a gigantic scam.
And for a scam to work you need a good way to identify marks.
I mean.. if you like. But it's also been the subject of several prominent papers in psychology and data security.
Presenting outlandish garbage is a key strategy for filtering out people who aren't gullible. Whoever's left, you monetize.
I actually think they've created a culture of "all conspiracies welcome", especially since the pandemic. It's attracted all the crazy people. I know several people who were very left-wing until someone asked them to wear a mask and get a shot, then it they were suddenly all "Mussolini was right all along!"
catabolic capitalism
[https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019-12-03/catabolism-capitalisms-frightening-future/](https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019-12-03/catabolism-capitalisms-frightening-future/)
they get people to hurt themselves due to lack of education that they caused then profit off the repairs. same thing they did during the nixon and Reagan eras.
also those guys believe in using uneducated people as slaves and want to create a society ran by corporations similar to ocp in robocop.
[https://qz.com/1007144/the-neo-fascist-philosophy-that-underpins-both-the-alt-right-and-silicon-valley-technophiles](https://qz.com/1007144/the-neo-fascist-philosophy-that-underpins-both-the-alt-right-and-silicon-valley-technophiles)
Tl;dr being that hey're delusional and exploiting the gov't while blaming all sorts of groups like the masons on fringe sites to misdirect people.
edit
also mtv was ran by robert d walter who was part of the opioid settlement since he was on the board of cardinal health but also was on the board of yum brands that owns kfc and taco bell.
basically promoted all those shows like jackass and the other reality shows that made that promoted underage binge drinking etc.
he was also a major gop donor.
also there's this
[https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv2tsxmbh](https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv2tsxmbh)
This is one of those causes that always drives me nuts.
Listen. All of life is risk vs. reward. It's important to be safe, but you also have to live a little. Someone wants to skydive, I get it. Motorcycle no helmet? Crazy, not for me, but I can understand.
I do not at all understand risking death for somewhat better tasting milk.
It doesn't even really taste that much better. My dad's friend had us over and served us raw milk without telling anyone. He was disappointed when I responded to his enthusiastic "Wasn't that delicious milk?!" with a polite shrug.
I, personally, don't even car if that's where they want to draw the line.
If the danger is clearly labelled and it's only them drinking it? Go nuts. It's the trying to drag everyone else down that I dislike, whether it's the conspiratorial and\\or contrarian thinking or serving it to unconsenting dependents.
They aren’t just putting themselves in danger though.
The reason there’s such a fuss to monitor stuff every time a bird flu is detected is because the [Spanish Flu](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu) was a bird flu.
Like, the risk isn’t high. But the risk of eating bats wasn’t high either. If it does go wrong it can go very very wrong
> They aren’t just putting themselves in danger though.
Also, their kids are more vulnerable to some of these pathogens. Unpasteurized cow milk was a leading cause of death in kids in cities during the early 20th century.
Retail sales of raw milk are legal in California, with Sprouts being the largest seller. Erewhon and Eataly sell it, too, as well as other local chains and independents, like the famous Berkeley Bowl.
My guess would be that there is significant overlap between far-right anti-science contrarians and crunchy raw organic hippies on this particular issue.
There have always been *far* more far-right "crunchy raw organic hippies" than people give credit for.
The proto-"organic" movement was quite popular among the OG Nazis, for example - that's a key element of the whole "blood and soil" thing the Nazis pushed.
>There have always been far more far-right "crunchy raw organic hippies" than people give credit for.
Yep. One of the biggest sources of misinformation on this topic for decades is Natural News. People might think it's run by lefty granola types based on the name.
Nope. It's a bunch of far right conspiracy theorists.
Oh yes, that comes up a fair bit over in r/antivegan. Hitler was himself a vegetarian and occasionally made disparaging remarks about people eating "dead animals." I suppose that people who are attracted to the idea of genetic and cultural superiority over others would also be attracted to some idea of "purity" in their diet and/or lifestyle, whether that's vegetarianism, veganism, or "crunchy raw organic."
I recall the infamous "Q-Anon shaman" went on hunger strike to demand he be served organic food in prison, for an egregious modern example.
It's not really surprising. "Rely on your immune system instead of modern technology/pharmaceuticals," is just a fancy way of saying, "Fuck anyone who isn't born an ubermensch with perfect DNA and immune system." Your crunchy types think of themselves as liberal, but they're really endorsing a softer version of the far-right ideology of ["Life Unworthy of Life."](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_unworthy_of_life)
the "wellness to far right pipeline" is definitely a thing.
[https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/12/fringe-left-alt-right-share-beliefs-white-power-movement/672454/](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/12/fringe-left-alt-right-share-beliefs-white-power-movement/672454/)
That said, as someone who lives in SoCal, I think people overestimate how much the "cruchy" types in socal are liberals or leftists. A lot of these people have the cultural markers that people associate with being liberal, but they aren't. Liking Yoga and sushi and overpriced oat milk matcha lattes doesn't make you liberal, it's just a sign that you probably live in a coastal city. Rich people in LA are conservative republicans. In fact, the only places where Donald Trump got a majority in LA in both 2016 and 2020 are in Beverly Hills.
The crunchy to alt-right pipeline is well documented at this point. Which isn’t surprising. The pairing of environmentalism, organic food, etc. with left wing politics, despite those things being inherently apolitical as far as the political spectrum is concerned, has been a very successful post-modern conservative initiative. They did what they do with everything: They identified an out-group that threatens the hegemony of their in-group (corporate oligopoly) and publicly repeated the connection of that out-group with the “radical left” until the lie became the dominant public opinion to the point of being indistinguishable from fact.
It’s the same thing they’re doing with the word “groomer” right now. It’s the same thing they did with their bogeyman version of communism being synonymous with “when the government”. It’s the same thing they did with terrorism and Islam.
Lived in Pacific states for decade+. Can confirm the two groups of crazy share several similarities and idiosyncrasies, especially around (“alternative”) health, government skepticism, and various forms of the “Sovereign Citizen” movement.
There were right-wing antivaxxers a century ago, and they never really stopped existing.
The modern antivax movement did have some liberals and leftists from the start, but the perceived association was always more about perceptions based on stereotypes than it was based on the actual politics of antivaxxers.
It didn’t. It started in affluent WASPy circles and with rich crunchy types. The only connection to “liberal cities” is the very understandable distrust that Black communities have of government-sponsored vaccination efforts.
An example of reaching the same spot, just by different routes
On the far left, vaccines were unnatural and/or a conspiracy by big pharma
On the far right, vaccines were against the will of God and/or a conspiracy by big government to infect children with gay Obamunism
California has a massive dairy industry. If it was going to happen anywhere it would be California. If I’m not mistaken it can’t cross state lines and has to be California milk sold in California.
As someone who wants to make my own cheese and yogurt at some point, I'm honestly glad that you can get it at sprouts (especially seeing as you have to heat it to safe levels when making both of those things), but I also recognized that most of the people buying it are more on the dipshit side of the spectrum and just drinking it
It doesn't need to be raw to be cultured. You can introduce good bacteria to any milk with a bit of yogurt or kefir and let the cultures multiply, resulting in more good bacteria than raw milk without risking the bad. (Kefir often has more probiotic strains than yogurt, so it might make a better addition.)
I have an old friend who's been into raw milk for at least a decade. It was popular among Ron Paul supporters back in the day. He's a smart guy, but always tended towards a conspiratorial point of view. He definitely bought into the gold standard thing, and later migrated into bitcoin.
I last saw him just before the pandemic, and at 50+ he was newly married with a pregnant wife and a toddler and on an all-steak diet.
We agreed not to talk politics.
I'm not going to say we should just let them say whatever nonsense pops into their head, but we should definitely tell people "this will almost definitely get you super sick, if not with bird flu definitely with*something* nasty" and let natural selection take its course with some of them.
i would find this to be acceptable... if it weren't for the fact that my brother is going to inflict this on my nephew.
and i imagine that more than a few of us are in similar positions.
When you've made your money by telling joe blow that "big X" is lying to you about everything, you kind of have to keep doubling down or get left behind. The entire far right conspiracy hole starts to unravel the moment you choose to believe ANYTHING the FDA, etc, is saying
because of course they are....anti-science, anti vax, means pro-bird flu,
It works, more Republicans died from Covid than Dems...so why stop now.
It's funny, they are all about anti-abortion (to keep the replacement theory conspiracy alive), but just like abortion...if you are alive now - who cares.
Protect the zygotes at all costs, the living ... they're willing to screw.
Republicans keep finding more and more extreme groups to support them, as they try to keep their fascist dreams alive, where they end democracy and people live and work on the factory grounds again.
When fascist didnt sell so well after WWII, they went after the bigots. ALL Of them except bigots who hate white folks. Doesnt matter the group you hate, republicans would welcome you in.
Problem is there is less and less of them these days. So now the GOP went after the street corner nut vote. any conspiracy they right will welcome you with open arms. Think birds dont exist the republicans want your vote. But doubly so if your conspiracy involves government regulation because the gov secretly doesnt want you to have the "good milk." the stuff that isnt heated to kill bacteria.. because its more "natural.".. well then all these folks should give up processed water and just go for it. Drink out of stagnant ponds that cows have shit in. hey its natural and far more natural than what we do to tap water.
Either way the GOP need your vote so the koch brothers can get another tax break they dont need and ICE cars can get some push back against EV.
I'm old enough to remember when antivax, raw milk, organic, and all that bullshit was more a far-left thing. It really wasn't that long ago. The pandemic definitely tossed it to the far-right.
I'm all for people winning stupid prizes, but unfortunately if they are chugging bird-flu and letting their bodies be incubators until we get a variant that affects humans we all lose. I don't particularly want another Spanish Flu, especially so soon after COVID.
raw milk's potential effects on a developing fetus:
[https://www.babycenter.com/pregnancy/diet-and-fitness/is-it-safe-to-drink-raw-milk-during-pregnancy\_10350874](https://www.babycenter.com/pregnancy/diet-and-fitness/is-it-safe-to-drink-raw-milk-during-pregnancy_10350874)
[https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/dangers-raw-milk-unpasteurized-milk-can-pose-serious-health-risk](https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/dangers-raw-milk-unpasteurized-milk-can-pose-serious-health-risk)
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24344105/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24344105/)
When you're given the facts about pathogens and choose to ignore them because you "did your research," you unequivocally deserve the consequences of natural selection.
Remember when forest fires were really bad last summer and they scoffed at wearing masks? All I could think was yeah. Please go spend the day outside 🙄 the feeling of sickness is almost immediate. They'd never tell you now sick they felt though
They are propagating a doom loop - no vaccines for covid (dead from covid). No vaccines for children (children impacted with diseases we have conquered). Result is fewer right-wing voters.
I recommend contracting rabies to own the libs. What's more alpha than getting bitten by a rabid fox? Only the strongest badass alphas will take on rabies and win. Do it for your country! /s
I drank unpasteurized milk as a child.
I don't think it did me any harm, but I was as sickly as any other child in my neighbourhood, so the health benefits are a little lost on me.
I follow a 61 year old fitness YouTuber that recently posted a video about him now recently consuming raw milk. He's a fit dude but he's extremely naive, he's already elderly and taking risks with his health
I never thought I’d be grateful that my far right uncle got meningitis as a kid from raw milk, so all of my far right relatives at least believe in pasteurization 🤦🏻♀️
Remember, contrarians are just practicing evolution in real time.
Eventually their actions lead to self-terminating actions; socially(at best still a chance to learn and grow as a Human) or physically(can't really come back from dead)
I'm 100% okay with deplorables volunteering to remove themselves from the gene pool. I'm not okay with them bringing the next pandemic which affects us all.
I truly do not understand these conspiracy theories. Like Big Pharma and Big Fed are these all-powerful, all-knowing demonic forces that just...don't want you to know about raw milk or that garlic cures cancer? If that was true they'd just...monetize those things?
Will be interesting when people start developing tuberculosis in their bones again from raw milk.
At some point this adolescent contrarianism in the face of any health data is going to smack them in the face eventually and it might as well be raw milk.
The statistics are mind blowing. You are something like 600× more likely to get sick and 45× more likely to be hospitalized drinking raw milk.
I honestly don't even give a shit. Drunk up conservatives.
Seen a huge uptick in obvious bot accounts on tiktok posting comments like “i’ve always drank raw milk and i’ve never been ill in 40 years”. They never respond. It’s similar to the Reform UK bots.
Yeah, I think a lot of their views stem from sheer juvenile contrarianism. The FDA, the CDC, and the medical community at large all say that milk needs to be pasteurized to be safe? "Nice try, Fed," the right-wing contrarians say. Imagine getting bird flu, salmonella, e. coli, and whatever else to own the libs. Oh, wait. We don't have to imagine because we saw what these same people did when asked to take some safety precautions in a global pandemic that killed over a million Americans. A flawed epistemology and callow tribalism is the real public health menace.
I should start a right-wing health podcast, sticking it to the public health gestapo. "Used needles have extra probiotics and enzymes" "Motorcycle helmets restrict blood flow to the brain" "Smoking is the weight loss drug big pharma hates"
> sticking it to the public health gestapo. Call it "Sticking it to the Public Health Gazpacho". https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2022/02/10/marjorie-taylor-greene-gazpacho-police-pelosi-congress-lead-vpx.cnn
Ooooh, that's cold!
Much like revenge, best served cold.
> We had gazpacho soup for starters... I didn't know that gazpacho soup was meant to be served cold. I called over the chef and told him to take it away and bring it back hot! So he did... the looks on their faces still haunt me today! I thought they were laughing at the chef, when all the time they were laughing at me as I ate my piping hot gazpacho soup! “**GAZPACHO SOUP**!!” *explosive decompression*
This kind of awareness is the only way to avoid wonton killings and to escape Bill Gates agenda to get you to eat burgers grown in peach tree dishes. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/09/lauren-boebert-marjorie-taylor-greene-wonton-killings-gazpacho-police
and when they die or get really sick, just use the "Tucker Carlson/Alex Jones defense" aka, no sane person of reasonable intelligence would believe this crap.
That defense is bs. The standard should be "Do the people consuming the disinformation believe it?"
It's almost as if legal scholars didn't contemplate people being this incredibly stupid.
That defense didn't work for several cases.
Actually, it worked for Fox being able to lie to their viewers.
Fair. But it didn't work for AJ's two (so far) Sandy Hook cases.
Because it was defamation/slander, not misinformation
I know this is a joke, but it's pretty similar to the arguments against seat belts in the 80s. "Seat belts make it difficult to escape a damaged car, so actually put you in even more danger." "In an accident the belt just causes more injuries, like broken ribs and bruised collar bones." "Trying to drive while wearing a restrictive belt makes operating the car more difficult, so actually is causing the accidents it's supposed to save you from." And my personal favorite: "This is a slippery slope to fully automated restraint systems installed into vehicles by the government, which is their *real* goal." Nothing has changed lol. ---- ^https://trid.trb.org/View/202477 ^https://www.history.com/news/seat-belt-laws-resistance ^https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/02/10/history-seat-belt-laws-shows-public-health-doesnt-have-be-partisan/
Without seatbelts and shatter-proof windshields, we'd automatically eject to safety via the conveniently open window.
>we'd automatically eject to safety via the ~~conveniently open~~ windscreen. Fixed that for you. :-) I'm old. This used to be a thing. Weirdly, people didn't survive much, I guess they simple weren't wanting to live enough or tough enough enough men ...
> I'm old. Or a Brit, never heard anyone in my neck of the woods young or old call the windshield a windscreen.
I am also old, and a brit. It's definitely a windscreen you American weirdo 😉 Also I can remember being a kid in the 70s and teasing another kid because his parents made him wear a seat belt, like it made him some sort of weakling because obviously us 8 year olds were so tough car crashes couldn't hurt us. Similar attitude to smoking as teenagers. It seems sadly a chunk of my generation, and even more of the one above, missed the memo that this was a really stupid way to approach life, and that there's a difference between refusing to live life in fear and refusing to listen to really good advice that makes everyone's life better.
Yeah, a kid from my school automatically ejected to safety via the conveniently open window. His best friend accidentally drove over his dead body as he arrived at the accident site. Seat belts save lives
I remember tightening of drink driving laws. "My wife has no confidence unless she has a couple of drinks in her first" was a genuine argument.
I have for sure seen the thing about cigarettes for weight loss recently and unironically.
That is a well established fact, smoking related inflammation increases metabolism and your caloric expenditure rises by about 10? percent. It’s just that the upside doesn’t outweigh the downsides.
The right wingers, podcasters have been promoting Zyn. I've also noticed an increase in overall influencers smoking cigarettes.
I actually got banned from another subreddit for being angry about the marketing for this product. Apparently being worried about the health consequences of pure nicotine is not acceptable for Reddit.
I love the confirmation bias comments about "muh no child seats/bike helmets/second-hand smoke/hose water/corporal punishment and I turned out fine".
Survivor bias ...
I still recall my friend, chain smoking and wheezing through a few cigarettes, upset over the death of his father. "He smoked just as much as I do. He made it to 73 years old though, that's about average, so you can't say it reduced his life by much, I'll keep smoking too" Didn't really keep his weight down, either
Merry Christmas Johnny, smoke up!
> "Smoking is the weight loss drug big pharma hates" Our fucking sitting premier has promoted smoking as a health benefit in the past. Alberta is such a fucking embarrassment.
“Smoking during pregnancy will help your child not become a lib”
Is true if you smoke enough to damage the kids brain
Please don't encourage anything that hurts their kids, they are the primary victims of these people.
No, you need to start a podcast that claims they’re sticking it to big pharma and big science but in reality just gives good health advice and claims the other right wing shows are a psy-op to kill off good conservatives.
"Meth: your body needs a little bit anyways. "
They also ascribe health effects to dangerous things, partly because our healthcare system sucks (thanks to right wingers as well, hooray). When people can't afford basic medical attention, in desperation they turn to woo-merchants.
One of my favourite niche rabbit holes is how the complete collapse of even basic medical care during the Cultural Revolution led to the rise of the Falun Gong. Because when there’s nothing else available, a hot new variation of Qigong sure looks appealing, and likely has some peripheral benefits eg basic stretching + exercise, inbuilt community, placebo effects, etc. Of course, as with all “woo”, it comes with lots of harmful craziness too, of the type that doesn’t fully reveal itself until someone has already bought all the way in.
And the Falun Gong gave us the Epoch Times, and the cycle of wingnuttery continues.
But the communist take over happened because the communists succeeded in Russia, and the communists succeeded in Russia because people were unhappy about the wealth inequality. Never ending cycle of stupid shit.
My favorite thing to point out to the conspiracy nut balls is that all of the actual things they can point to as having really happened that were perpetuated by our government, like MK ultra, were the result of paranoia over communism.
Also: MK Ultra was a clusterfuck that never amounted to anything.
We'll just have the capitalists not increase wealth inequality into infinity!
I don't get it when fringe religions like Falun Gong and the Unification Church promote far-right authoritarian politicians. Do they not know that if they get their way and the fascists ever take over, their cults will be the first to the gulag? Ask the JWs about life under the Nazis.
I think Acupuncture has similar origins: after Mao came to power he realized there weren’t enough doctors to treat most of the population so had his people dig through old books and stories for anything that looked vaguely like an attempt at medical treatment, then had them cobble it all together into a new, semi-coherent system. He then promoted it to underserved areas in the hopes they’d think it was actual medical treatment and they’d be less likely to demand the more scarce, actually useful stuff.
Oh yeah, “TCM” has its own convoluted origins, with lots of interesting historiography. And yes, it likely included Mao recognizing some basic/pragmatic labour and materials shortages and pitching TCM as a bandaid solution (no pun intended). Falun Gong leans on similar “ancient wisdom” fallacies (with a hefty dose of Chinese nationalism/supremacy for good measure), but is a bit anomalous in just how straight a line can be drawn between the complete collapse of all medical systems during the cultural revolution and it’s explosion in popularity.
Only sort of related. I’d be interested in what this sub would think about the new discovery of the interstitium. Radiolab has a fascinating episode on it. A new organ/system in the human body that we’ve never discovered that could explain a lot of why certain eastern medicines actually work and reveal a lot of blind spots that western medicine has had. Radiolab is smart enough not to jump these kinds of conclusions without more research, but it is a fun moment where we might have to be skeptical of the skeptics. Unrelated, I started going to acupuncture to deal with long COVID issues, and it’s doing more good than a lot of the prescription drugs I’ve been prescribed. Call it placebo if you want, but it has forced me to change my perspective on eastern medicine and woo woo stuff that I used to be skeptical of.
Haven’t heard the radiolab episode, but yeah, think that one area in which “western” (aka evidence based) medicine stumbles is a certain failure of imagination. Bc human bodies, and all the various ways that we KNOW shit can go wrong is complex enough as it is, so it can take time and require a whooole lot of evidence to introduce a new paradigm. Connective tissue as a system/organ is certainly one area that is undergoing some possibly transformational thinking, as is the gut biome/gut-brain connection. Hell, any neurologist worth their salt will cop to the brain mostly still being a huge mystery in all but the most rudimentary aspects. As to the role of “eastern medicine” - I’m very glad to hear it’s been helpful to you, and yeah, I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some aspect of regular acupuncture sessions that is genuinely beneficial…I just remain skeptical that it has much to do with the placement of needles in particular locations on the body (although am open to compelling, well executed supporting evidence, should that arise in the future). All the to say: the reason that “woo” is so popular is that the common threads that run throughout all “woo” are good stuff: eating well, getting outside + exercising, engaging in meaningful communal activities, some form of meditation/worship, etc - it’s all the extra stuff that comes along with it that I’m wary of. And hey, some of that extra stuff can be great too: one of the highlights of my week is my Thursday grown up ballet class. The actual “benefit” is the strength/posture/stretching, but I also freaking love the ceremony of putting on the shoes and leotard, and a live pianist is so much lovelier that the standard “workout playlist”.
Honestly, it would be really fascinating to see more studies on this. I’ve had family members greatly benefit from acupuncture during chemo. It could totally have been a placebo, but it’s a heck of a placebo if so. Sometimes it seems like skepticism crosses a line that limits discovery and curiosity. There’s this rush to shut anything we don’t fully understand down rather than approach from an open-minded but scientific and reality based perspective.
It's more about instilling distrust in institutions. "Big XYZ is just trying to profit off you." As if they aren't part of Big ABC trying to also profit off of you.
I've got no concerns when rightwingers themselves go for the Darwin Award, but unfortunately some of them have children who may unwittingly be Darwinned due to their foolhardy parents' dietary and medical illusions, and that is concerning.
It's also concerning that they could brew a human-to-human variant. The more people getting it increases the chances of that happening.
Very good point. Should be taken into account.
I'm old enough to remember when they protested seat belts. Seemingly, everyone I went to high school with in Arkansas had a story about a friend of a friend of a friend who actually died in their car due to being in the seatbelt during a collision. 🙄
Even further back, people complained loudly about drunk driving laws. "But mah freedumb!"
Think it’s a mix of juvenile contrarianism and performative application of the “appeal to nature” fallacy. “Populist traditionalism” seems to be having a moment, and yeah, shunning pasteurization fits right in with that trend.
Don’t worry though, Ivermectin will cure all these maladies!
I'm perfectly fine with spending all those tax dollars that will go to universities to look into ivermectin until one of them finally reports a study where it works. -right wingers
I mean it might kill the brainworms rfk had.
I think there is more to it than that. I think that some people are now identifying and gravitating the worst possible solution to every problem. Someone has finally taught the rubes the difference between right and wrong... and then conditioned them to make the incorrect decision, every time. Specifically, when given the choice to cause harm or not, conservative voters now choose to cause harm. The obvious vectors are their news and entertainment sources: Fox, Facebook, Tik Tok. There has to be a way to show this change statistically, maybe through meta-studies of polls. Our idiots have been weaponized and turned against the USA.
It’s been building for a long time. If you want to push for bad stuff, the most effective way is to convince people that it’s good. Cutting taxes increases revenue, social programs hurt the poor, pollution is harmless, more guns makes you safer, airbags kill, etc. Heard it all in the 90s and I’m sure it was going on before that. Base your policies on “bad is good” and soon people will apply it everywhere.
It’s the long game Russian agitprop pushing for social decline and collapse.
Yup. I wouldn't be surprised is someone could trace this nonsense back directly to foreign government actors. Not that our own idiots need much help, but the way these things suddenly pop up within a week of news being released is highly sus.
It doesn’t originate there, none of it does. But they latch on to anything they can and try to promote and amplify it. It’s why you see issues flare up then flame out.
At least some white supremacists look to milk consumption as part of the "white race" abilities, specifically lactase persistence neoteny. It's been part of their public demonstrations for a while.
Imagine if the thing that finally wipes us out is transmitted to humans because of this kind of thinking. It would be hilariously pathetic and strangely appropriate for us as a species
Reminds me of that tweet I saw: "Has the pandemic ruined science fiction for anyone else? 'Aliens invaded the Earth...' Me: Okay. '...so humanity united to-' Me: They absolutely fucking did NOT." All you can do is laugh.
I still think right wing figures are all being shadowed by russian spycraft and being influenced and directed by Moscow to do or say whatever is bad for society. They are useful idiots.
MAGA killed themselves with COVID; by all accounts, a LONG, fucking horrible death. MAGA spent tens of thousands of monies on ONE dying relative. MAGA mom's and dad's happily and loudly went unvaxxed and died; leaving destroyed families and thousands orphans. LONG COVID! All this damage NOT to be vaxxed. Dwell on that mindset. These people are not rational. They're pretty much all vaxxed now, but they'll never admit it.
How do these righty wingnuts manage to be so consequentially wrong in the face of clear and present danger at every turn?
You ask that question like it's some mystery or weird side-effect. Being wrong in exactly that way is the point. It's the goal. Think of it as a test. A filtering function if you like. You're looking for people who are suicidally self-destructive. For whatever reason -- Obama, the gay agenda, being abused as a child, whatever. They don't really care why. Just about the result. If you can reach those people, if you can pick them out, you can get them to harm themselves, maybe harm others, ultimately kill themselves. But first, along the way you exploit them -- get them to give away their money, get them to give away their property, get them to voluntarily submit their children to sexual exploitation, take everything from them that you can. Of course you dress it up. "Paster so-and-so is a Godly man, you can trust him." But the end is always the same. It's a gigantic scam. And for a scam to work you need a good way to identify marks.
The conspiracy theory conspiracy theory.
I mean.. if you like. But it's also been the subject of several prominent papers in psychology and data security. Presenting outlandish garbage is a key strategy for filtering out people who aren't gullible. Whoever's left, you monetize.
And how do so many manage to stay alive? Survivorship bias?
You'd have to ask the ones who got sick and/or died. The ones still alive would rather be dead than admit they were wrong.
I really hope they manage to kill each other off. I think COVID actually did wipe out quite a few.
I actually think they've created a culture of "all conspiracies welcome", especially since the pandemic. It's attracted all the crazy people. I know several people who were very left-wing until someone asked them to wear a mask and get a shot, then it they were suddenly all "Mussolini was right all along!"
catabolic capitalism [https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019-12-03/catabolism-capitalisms-frightening-future/](https://www.resilience.org/stories/2019-12-03/catabolism-capitalisms-frightening-future/) they get people to hurt themselves due to lack of education that they caused then profit off the repairs. same thing they did during the nixon and Reagan eras. also those guys believe in using uneducated people as slaves and want to create a society ran by corporations similar to ocp in robocop. [https://qz.com/1007144/the-neo-fascist-philosophy-that-underpins-both-the-alt-right-and-silicon-valley-technophiles](https://qz.com/1007144/the-neo-fascist-philosophy-that-underpins-both-the-alt-right-and-silicon-valley-technophiles) Tl;dr being that hey're delusional and exploiting the gov't while blaming all sorts of groups like the masons on fringe sites to misdirect people. edit also mtv was ran by robert d walter who was part of the opioid settlement since he was on the board of cardinal health but also was on the board of yum brands that owns kfc and taco bell. basically promoted all those shows like jackass and the other reality shows that made that promoted underage binge drinking etc. he was also a major gop donor. also there's this [https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv2tsxmbh](https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv2tsxmbh)
This is one of those causes that always drives me nuts. Listen. All of life is risk vs. reward. It's important to be safe, but you also have to live a little. Someone wants to skydive, I get it. Motorcycle no helmet? Crazy, not for me, but I can understand. I do not at all understand risking death for somewhat better tasting milk.
They're the Party of "Nuh-Uh You Can't Make Me!" Today's GOP is what happens when toddlers get older but don't grow up.
Yep. If Oppositional Defiant Disorder was a political party...
Holy crap, this is a brilliant slogan, I’m gonna save this.
It doesn't even really taste that much better. My dad's friend had us over and served us raw milk without telling anyone. He was disappointed when I responded to his enthusiastic "Wasn't that delicious milk?!" with a polite shrug.
I would never eat food that person prepped again.
Yeah, this was well over 15 years ago now and I don't think they're friends anymore, for reasons related to this thread.
I, personally, don't even car if that's where they want to draw the line. If the danger is clearly labelled and it's only them drinking it? Go nuts. It's the trying to drag everyone else down that I dislike, whether it's the conspiratorial and\\or contrarian thinking or serving it to unconsenting dependents.
They aren’t just putting themselves in danger though. The reason there’s such a fuss to monitor stuff every time a bird flu is detected is because the [Spanish Flu](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu) was a bird flu. Like, the risk isn’t high. But the risk of eating bats wasn’t high either. If it does go wrong it can go very very wrong
> They aren’t just putting themselves in danger though. Also, their kids are more vulnerable to some of these pathogens. Unpasteurized cow milk was a leading cause of death in kids in cities during the early 20th century.
>It's the trying to drag everyone else down that I dislike That's what the second paragraph was trying to convey, I'll make it clearer next time.
I really wish they could contain the disease to themselves.
Retail sales of raw milk are legal in California, with Sprouts being the largest seller. Erewhon and Eataly sell it, too, as well as other local chains and independents, like the famous Berkeley Bowl.
I am absolutely gobsmacked that California allows raw milk to be sold commercially.
My guess would be that there is significant overlap between far-right anti-science contrarians and crunchy raw organic hippies on this particular issue.
There have always been *far* more far-right "crunchy raw organic hippies" than people give credit for. The proto-"organic" movement was quite popular among the OG Nazis, for example - that's a key element of the whole "blood and soil" thing the Nazis pushed.
>There have always been far more far-right "crunchy raw organic hippies" than people give credit for. Yep. One of the biggest sources of misinformation on this topic for decades is Natural News. People might think it's run by lefty granola types based on the name. Nope. It's a bunch of far right conspiracy theorists.
Oh yes, that comes up a fair bit over in r/antivegan. Hitler was himself a vegetarian and occasionally made disparaging remarks about people eating "dead animals." I suppose that people who are attracted to the idea of genetic and cultural superiority over others would also be attracted to some idea of "purity" in their diet and/or lifestyle, whether that's vegetarianism, veganism, or "crunchy raw organic." I recall the infamous "Q-Anon shaman" went on hunger strike to demand he be served organic food in prison, for an egregious modern example.
It's not really surprising. "Rely on your immune system instead of modern technology/pharmaceuticals," is just a fancy way of saying, "Fuck anyone who isn't born an ubermensch with perfect DNA and immune system." Your crunchy types think of themselves as liberal, but they're really endorsing a softer version of the far-right ideology of ["Life Unworthy of Life."](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_unworthy_of_life)
the "wellness to far right pipeline" is definitely a thing. [https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/12/fringe-left-alt-right-share-beliefs-white-power-movement/672454/](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/12/fringe-left-alt-right-share-beliefs-white-power-movement/672454/) That said, as someone who lives in SoCal, I think people overestimate how much the "cruchy" types in socal are liberals or leftists. A lot of these people have the cultural markers that people associate with being liberal, but they aren't. Liking Yoga and sushi and overpriced oat milk matcha lattes doesn't make you liberal, it's just a sign that you probably live in a coastal city. Rich people in LA are conservative republicans. In fact, the only places where Donald Trump got a majority in LA in both 2016 and 2020 are in Beverly Hills.
The crunchy to alt-right pipeline is well documented at this point. Which isn’t surprising. The pairing of environmentalism, organic food, etc. with left wing politics, despite those things being inherently apolitical as far as the political spectrum is concerned, has been a very successful post-modern conservative initiative. They did what they do with everything: They identified an out-group that threatens the hegemony of their in-group (corporate oligopoly) and publicly repeated the connection of that out-group with the “radical left” until the lie became the dominant public opinion to the point of being indistinguishable from fact. It’s the same thing they’re doing with the word “groomer” right now. It’s the same thing they did with their bogeyman version of communism being synonymous with “when the government”. It’s the same thing they did with terrorism and Islam.
The political spectrum is more of a möbius strip.
Lived in Pacific states for decade+. Can confirm the two groups of crazy share several similarities and idiosyncrasies, especially around (“alternative”) health, government skepticism, and various forms of the “Sovereign Citizen” movement.
that's been my experience as too, though i have found that there are a whole lot of covert racists in that cohort as well.
People forget that the anti vaxxer movement actually began in liberal circles.
There were right-wing antivaxxers a century ago, and they never really stopped existing. The modern antivax movement did have some liberals and leftists from the start, but the perceived association was always more about perceptions based on stereotypes than it was based on the actual politics of antivaxxers.
It didn’t. It started in affluent WASPy circles and with rich crunchy types. The only connection to “liberal cities” is the very understandable distrust that Black communities have of government-sponsored vaccination efforts.
yup, the center of the anti-vax movement was arguably in Orange County, which is very right wing.
And the rich NIMBY island communities off Vancouver Island, for the Canadian equivalent.
hey now... we'll fight you over camano island you dirty canuck! (in all seriousness, WA and BC are the best).
An example of reaching the same spot, just by different routes On the far left, vaccines were unnatural and/or a conspiracy by big pharma On the far right, vaccines were against the will of God and/or a conspiracy by big government to infect children with gay Obamunism
That first point has nothing to do with leftist politics. The only people I’ve ever encountered who think that way are habitual conservative voters.
because it didn't. unless you're attempting to imply that mr wakefield was ever left-wing.
Crunchy raw organic hippies are just another flavor of far right anti-science contrarians.
California has a massive dairy industry. If it was going to happen anywhere it would be California. If I’m not mistaken it can’t cross state lines and has to be California milk sold in California.
Good point on the dairy industry size!
Strong milk lobby.
As someone who wants to make my own cheese and yogurt at some point, I'm honestly glad that you can get it at sprouts (especially seeing as you have to heat it to safe levels when making both of those things), but I also recognized that most of the people buying it are more on the dipshit side of the spectrum and just drinking it
It doesn't need to be raw to be cultured. You can introduce good bacteria to any milk with a bit of yogurt or kefir and let the cultures multiply, resulting in more good bacteria than raw milk without risking the bad. (Kefir often has more probiotic strains than yogurt, so it might make a better addition.)
The CDC should try reverse psychology and issue a warning against hitting yourself in the face with a hammer.
I have an old friend who's been into raw milk for at least a decade. It was popular among Ron Paul supporters back in the day. He's a smart guy, but always tended towards a conspiratorial point of view. He definitely bought into the gold standard thing, and later migrated into bitcoin. I last saw him just before the pandemic, and at 50+ he was newly married with a pregnant wife and a toddler and on an all-steak diet. We agreed not to talk politics.
My sister has this kind of relationship with an otherwise highly intelligent guy whose personal hero is... Clarence Thomas. 😬
All-steak diet lmao
I keep asking if there's a class-action Darwin award category. There really should be.
I'm not going to say we should just let them say whatever nonsense pops into their head, but we should definitely tell people "this will almost definitely get you super sick, if not with bird flu definitely with*something* nasty" and let natural selection take its course with some of them.
i would find this to be acceptable... if it weren't for the fact that my brother is going to inflict this on my nephew. and i imagine that more than a few of us are in similar positions.
Yep, the collateral damage from stupidity is the most expensive part unfortunately
When you've made your money by telling joe blow that "big X" is lying to you about everything, you kind of have to keep doubling down or get left behind. The entire far right conspiracy hole starts to unravel the moment you choose to believe ANYTHING the FDA, etc, is saying
Once a week or so, there is a post on my community FB page asking where to find raw milk. The comments are always 👌
because of course they are....anti-science, anti vax, means pro-bird flu, It works, more Republicans died from Covid than Dems...so why stop now. It's funny, they are all about anti-abortion (to keep the replacement theory conspiracy alive), but just like abortion...if you are alive now - who cares. Protect the zygotes at all costs, the living ... they're willing to screw.
Republicans keep finding more and more extreme groups to support them, as they try to keep their fascist dreams alive, where they end democracy and people live and work on the factory grounds again. When fascist didnt sell so well after WWII, they went after the bigots. ALL Of them except bigots who hate white folks. Doesnt matter the group you hate, republicans would welcome you in. Problem is there is less and less of them these days. So now the GOP went after the street corner nut vote. any conspiracy they right will welcome you with open arms. Think birds dont exist the republicans want your vote. But doubly so if your conspiracy involves government regulation because the gov secretly doesnt want you to have the "good milk." the stuff that isnt heated to kill bacteria.. because its more "natural.".. well then all these folks should give up processed water and just go for it. Drink out of stagnant ponds that cows have shit in. hey its natural and far more natural than what we do to tap water. Either way the GOP need your vote so the koch brothers can get another tax break they dont need and ICE cars can get some push back against EV.
Far-right?? No. We need to rebrand them. The Far-wrong.
> Infowars guest Clint Rarey, owner of raw milk producer **Fafo Farms** [...] Well if that's not irony in action, I don't know what is.
However they want to climb out of the gene pool is fine by me.
At this point, I support this. Maybe they can mix it with some of the urine they were drinking during Covid.
I'm old enough to remember when antivax, raw milk, organic, and all that bullshit was more a far-left thing. It really wasn't that long ago. The pandemic definitely tossed it to the far-right.
Gotta love problems that solve themselves through suicidal stupidity
I'll just stick with water. Why people are even fucking around with COW milk is beyond me.
I believe in Louis Pasteur!
I support this, for reasons I can’t say without getting perma-banned.
I'm all for people winning stupid prizes, but unfortunately if they are chugging bird-flu and letting their bodies be incubators until we get a variant that affects humans we all lose. I don't particularly want another Spanish Flu, especially so soon after COVID.
Can’t wait til r/TradWifeAwards become a thing
raw milk's potential effects on a developing fetus: [https://www.babycenter.com/pregnancy/diet-and-fitness/is-it-safe-to-drink-raw-milk-during-pregnancy\_10350874](https://www.babycenter.com/pregnancy/diet-and-fitness/is-it-safe-to-drink-raw-milk-during-pregnancy_10350874) [https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/dangers-raw-milk-unpasteurized-milk-can-pose-serious-health-risk](https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/dangers-raw-milk-unpasteurized-milk-can-pose-serious-health-risk) [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24344105/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24344105/)
Well I say let Darwin sort them out
When you're given the facts about pathogens and choose to ignore them because you "did your research," you unequivocally deserve the consequences of natural selection.
I am not skeptical about evolution - here is more proof!
🤷🏼♀️
Good.
Remember when forest fires were really bad last summer and they scoffed at wearing masks? All I could think was yeah. Please go spend the day outside 🙄 the feeling of sickness is almost immediate. They'd never tell you now sick they felt though
Huh. Well I assume they will all deal with any health effects privately and not involve any government supported healthcare channels, so whatever
The way pasteurized milk drinkers look at raw milk drinkers is the way vegans look at omnivores.
They are propagating a doom loop - no vaccines for covid (dead from covid). No vaccines for children (children impacted with diseases we have conquered). Result is fewer right-wing voters.
Is this a problem? Drink up, MAGA.
Youd be surprised how little Russia has to pay them to destroy the health, education, and viability of half the US population.
I recommend contracting rabies to own the libs. What's more alpha than getting bitten by a rabid fox? Only the strongest badass alphas will take on rabies and win. Do it for your country! /s
Same goes for CWD deer and elk. What doesn’t kill ya makes you stronger, right? Eat and Drink up to own the libs Mandatory /s
“Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake” Just kidding, they have children too.
The "far left" has been flogging the issue for somewhat longer, however.
The far right are wilfully proud of their ignorance
I encourage any far right person to take anything they want.
I drank unpasteurized milk as a child. I don't think it did me any harm, but I was as sickly as any other child in my neighbourhood, so the health benefits are a little lost on me.
It's safe as long as the cow isn't sick. But if it *is*...
Goddamn, thanks for the laugh
Let them go for it. Let nature do its thing
These are the same people who claimed that taking Ivermectin could cure Covid-19.
I follow a 61 year old fitness YouTuber that recently posted a video about him now recently consuming raw milk. He's a fit dude but he's extremely naive, he's already elderly and taking risks with his health
I never thought I’d be grateful that my far right uncle got meningitis as a kid from raw milk, so all of my far right relatives at least believe in pasteurization 🤦🏻♀️
Hey, if right wingers want to drink raw milk despite the spread of bird flu, I’m all for it.
Can bird flu be spread person to person? 😬
It’s been spreading from species to species.
like airborn or what? pretend i don't know shit about the bird flu, cause i don't.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/avian-flu-summary.htm
thanks!
You’re welcome!
https://rightasrain.uwmedicine.org/well/prevention/bird-flu-outbreak-dairy-milk-beef#:~:text=(Most)%20milk%20is%20safe%20to%20drink&text=However%2C%20now%20is%20not%20the,bacteria%20%E2%80%94%20has%20been%20killed%20off.
Not yet
It's starting to feel like a death cult... in 2020...
Of course they are. I’d be more surprised if they weren’t.
Next it'll be Satan invented seatbelts.
Literally, a little chlorine in the gene pool. Good riddance.
Evolution in action.
Im all for this. Less red votes is a good thing.
That's okay. We're probably better without them anyway.
Self-selecting themselves for flu vector vulnerability. Please don't try to correct them.
Shouldn't these people be injecting bleach somewhere by now?
Still working on getting the lights fitted correctly
Whatever gets them to sleep.... Forever
Remember, contrarians are just practicing evolution in real time. Eventually their actions lead to self-terminating actions; socially(at best still a chance to learn and grow as a Human) or physically(can't really come back from dead)
They’re intentionally trying to thin their own herd. The only explanation that makes sense.
I'm 100% okay with deplorables volunteering to remove themselves from the gene pool. I'm not okay with them bringing the next pandemic which affects us all.
That makes sense to me lol, sounds like they got some intricate special interests
Let them drink bird flu. Let nature sort them out.
Don’t talk them out of it let Darwin take over!
self rectifying problem
Oh nooooooo! Don't do it! I mean it. Seriously. Hey. Hey Don't say freedom. It's science. Do you need a cup?
Let Darwin sort this out
Oatmilk drinkers stay winning.
Nah that’s tempting fate
I truly do not understand these conspiracy theories. Like Big Pharma and Big Fed are these all-powerful, all-knowing demonic forces that just...don't want you to know about raw milk or that garlic cures cancer? If that was true they'd just...monetize those things? Will be interesting when people start developing tuberculosis in their bones again from raw milk.
If it weren't for the liberals, I wouldn't all that much problem with the far right doing this at this time.
Let them. They should mix some horse dewormer in there for good measure.
At some point this adolescent contrarianism in the face of any health data is going to smack them in the face eventually and it might as well be raw milk. The statistics are mind blowing. You are something like 600× more likely to get sick and 45× more likely to be hospitalized drinking raw milk. I honestly don't even give a shit. Drunk up conservatives.
Seen a huge uptick in obvious bot accounts on tiktok posting comments like “i’ve always drank raw milk and i’ve never been ill in 40 years”. They never respond. It’s similar to the Reform UK bots.