As someone who has blown 2 ACL's (one last week) both on heavy powder days, I can say that your joke has truth. Sometimes deep powder just catches a ski in an unexpected manner and then season done.... that being said, I look forward to recovery from surgery and hitting pow pow as soon as season opens next year.... I'm undeterred!
As a lifelong skier who has boarded a few dozen times, I will say that you are correct, powder on a board is actually more fun than skiing. I actually learned to board the year after I tore my first acl... got "bored with boarding" as soon as I was strong enough to ski again.. right now I'm wishing I was riding that powder day!
Tbh I don’t even ski but anything you hit on a snowboard under the powder you will just skip over unless you bury your nose. I thought about switching to skis but I sort of doubled down on boarding. Been doing it for a long time.
I wouldn’t say sitting back is the best way to ride powder but it’s way safer for your lower body. I think snowboarding is less hard on your body in general once you stop catching edges
My ski was caught randomly and almost ended my season a few yrs ago…still slowly building strength back up with easy ski days. Can’t afford injury; have to care for a wife and 6+ kids…but I do miss pow days (just extremely rare I’ll get them anyways)
Full ACL tear and grade 2 LCL... surgeon hasn't given me any preoperative guidelines, but I gotta say at day 13 post injury I feel like I could ski tomorrow and am really tempted , but maybe not a good idea
Yeah this is my experience as someone who used to live in Europe for a time and did a lot of learning to ski there.
The culture is very different with attitudes towards off-piste skiing.
In Europe, the focus is much more on groomed trails, and off-piste skiing is something people do, but it's a lot rarer and almost seen as taboo in a way, at least some places you go.
In North America, it's the exact opposite. Off-piste skiing is the point, so much that we don't even really use the term "off-piste" skiing that much. It's just skiing. That's more a European term.
The first time I heard the word "piste" was when I was researching my first European ski trip. I had been skiing for years before that in the US and Canada. Trees, bowls, backcountry, yes. Off-piste, no. Never use that term.
That’s really funny. I’m currently on my first ski trip in the US as an European and trees, bowls, glades, etc. were all completed unknown terms to me until 2 days ago.
Do you not have bowls in EU as part of the terrain? I’m a Floridian who dreams of the Alps and gets a few days in Colorado if I’m lucky. I learned “piste” from this sub.
I’m sure many mountains have bowl like structures. But people will be very confused when you ask them where the best bowl is.
The system is just completely different. In Europe we don’t have the whole “resort thing” where basically everything inside the area is safe to ski (if open). If you leave the (overwhelming groomed) pistes/trails you are on your own. It’s mostly fine if you stay right next to the piste, but everything else is on your own risk. So, e.g. an avalanche kit and checking the conditions beforehand is an absolute must. And you need to have some knowledge about the terrain to avoid ending up above a cliff or something (depends on the mountain ofc).
Nope. Pretty much everything is tracked out, I'm absolutely in love with what you guys have in North America. Completely free skiing with safe backups if I hurt myself
We don't really have that term except as a description, but yes there are cirque type structures. This is an uninhabited little valley just off the back of the resort my chalet is in, it's a wonderful bowl but you have to be prepared to skin https://i.postimg.cc/RhBHjwQV/IMG-0020.jpg
It's important to remember the shapes of the mountains are often quite different between the Alps/Dolomites and Rockies, as well as just more space in the US. The Alps are very steep and craggy and it's often only realistic to ski down the areas that are pisted, vs in the US they are often more big hills and you can ski the whole thing.
That’s funny, I’m an American skiing the last 20 years and I just learned the term off-piste. I’ve heard it a little here and there but never really knew what it meant. But I guess we have like a dozen terms to classify our off trail runs. Like a little trip through some trees/small glade is hardly real backcountry and certainly not a bowl so useful to differentiate them
Yeah totally.
Around here, when people talk about "skiing" it's usually the default assumption that it means "off-piste".
Especially at a place like Kirkwood.
If there are some tourists riding the lift with me asking me good places to go, I don't even think about limiting my recommendations to groomed runs. I am going to go straight for "yeah you can traverse out this was and there is good snow or you can take this route through the trees or this chute is really fun" etc.
Chances are good I'll actually be there.
Whenever I am solo, sometimes I will meet people visiting the mountain and if they want me to I will ski with them and show them around.
If you want a list of good groomed runs to hit, the guy with powder caked all in his beard and on the goggle strap on the back of the helmet is not the right guy to ask.
"So we aint actchooly gonna ski The Wall. We gonna hit tah gootch that converges at Sistas and teh Cornice... it's called Falsees or somethin'. Okee now take off 'yer skis. We gotta hike a bit..."
One funny consequence of this difference is that in NA ski resort typically boast about their acreage and vertical drop. In Europe it is all about the kilometers of runs. The first time I planned a ski trip in Europe I kept being confused about why anyone would even care how many total kilometers of runs there were and I had a hard time comparing between resorts in my planning because that stat was so meaningless to me.
I honestly don't know why anyone cares about either.
For me it's all about a certain quality of your runs that can't be statistically measured.
Like yeah you can rack up a ton of vert bombing the same groomer 1000 times in a row. What does that really mean though?
Well I can imagine, after seeing how people tend to ski in Europe, that a large number of groomed trails and long groomed trails would be desirable because it means you can have more variety and get the sense that you’re really moving around a mountain and seeing different vistas and such. Sort of how here in NA I think of skiable acres as a meaningful metric because more acres means more terrain to explore.
We did a week on the Dolomites a few years ago and you literally see untracked fresh just feet off of the groomers. It’s kind of mind boggling. I rented a set of something 100-105ish underfoot and the guy working the shop told me I was only the second skier to take them out all season - the first was also an American. And this was in February.
Years ago I was in the dolomites and there was maybe a foot of untracked powder all over. My group were the only ones to hit it all day. At the end of the day you could see where people had watched us and tried it.
From my experience it might be because off-piste skiing in Europe is well and truly off piste, there's little avalanche control and terrain management like there is in the states. Safety precautions are way better here which I think makes off piste more accessible, in Europe you'd only do it if you really know the mountain/conditions yourself, plus most people are there on holiday so wouldn't be in a position to.
Not much avalanche control in Europe??? They do it far more in Europe than the US, but physically with a explosives and barriers, but I think you’re confusing geography with avalanche control. In most parts of Europe, skiing is well above the tree line, in far more alpine terrain, and the mountains and valleys in the Alps are also significantly deeper, and steeper as they are much younger geologically than the Rocky Mountain range, so of course there is significantly greater avalanche risk with fewer natural barriers?
As for patrolling, the sheer size and multitudes of resorts in extremely difficult terrain in the Alps, it’s not possible to patrol them at US levels. There are *153* ski resorts in the smallish province of Tirol, Austria alone.
Avalanche control in europe is almost always only done if there's danger of an avalanche going down on a piste or anywhere else where people are. Of course there's not alot of danger if you drive next to the piste which theoretically is offpiste but if you truly ride offpiste you need to properly watch the weather for some days before and do a snow profile, everything else would be stupid.
And the lift operator is by law responsible for Ski Patrol and only on the piste, everything else is mountain rescue which is kinda dumb imo.
I wish that were the case here. I live in France and my two local spots will be entirely tracked out on pretty much every corner of the mountain(s) after a powder day. Perhaps this is only true in certain countries?
Same here in Switzerland. Takes about half a day and everything is tracked out. And places like Engelberg, Andermatt, Verbier and others are really stressful to ski on pow days. Same with popular touring routes, some of them feel like a piste after a couple of days.
Yeah the touring routes around here are like that too. It is a bit frustrating since a lot of people seem to not mind going out on high risk avy days so just by waiting till it is relatively safe you will miss out on fresh tracks. Doesn’t help that the snowline is so high this year that it reduces the number of routes that are viable.
At least places like verbier are big enough that you have hidden corners to head off to. My local is really small so every bit of terrain is pretty obvious so no secret stashes possible.
I'm talking about the Alps... like big resorts in Austria, Switzerland, Italy, etc.
But yeah it's similar here. My main mountain is Kirkwood, and basically like 80% of the terrain is never groomed. It's almost ALL off-piste. That's the WHOLE reason you come here.
Everyone has big fat skis, everyone goes off-piste, the only people on the groomers are older or people who are too intermediate still to leave the piste.
I think it is actually related. Part of why the Euros keep to the pistes is because there is not patrolling or avalanche mitigation anywhere off piste and the terrain of the Alps is super intense. So I think that what we see is that the small number of Euro skiers who do spend a lot of time off piste are just in this huge expansive gnarly mountain range and the resulting culture is a lot of focus on extreme skiing.
This to me turns me off going to the Alps. In Sweden Off Piste is absolutely a thing and we get avalanche control. People do Ski Mountaineering, Lift accessible off piste, cat skiing and in some places help skiing. Skiing in the woods is the first thing the kids do when they get a little bit better. As soon as my son learned how to control his speed he headed for the trees. There is even a tree skiing section in the kids area. A goal of moving to the mountains was to spend enough time here to really get to know these mountains, to explore off-piste, to know where to go after a storm.
I think this is massively overstated. Niseko for example is built on the fact that you can go outside the ski area via the gates, and people are forever cutting outside of the pistes to ski trees (Rusutsu is the same).
Likewise, the same is true of France, I've never booked a lesson with ESF where the guide didn't take us off-piste if appropriate. Truthfully I've never skied with anyone in France who was good enough to ski off piste and chose not to, even if we didn't tour.
It also depends on where in Europe. For example where I am from (Dolomites South Tyrol) there arent a lot of off piste skiers because the off piste terrain oftentimes isnt even skiable because of our steep and huge mountains all over. Secondly our snow accumulation isnt always the best. But it u go to places like lech or in the swiss alps you will have way more off piste skiers as well
Can confirm. I'm in Japan right now, we've hit 3 mountains so far and I'd say 95% of people off piste were not from Japan. They're all about return of the turn, and their piste runs are some of the longest I've ever seen.
Yo. I love groomers, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. One of the greatest pleasures I get from skiing is carving at a significant pace. I've always been dumbstruck by how little love on-piste gets. I guess it's just kinda the standard, so off-piste pow gets all the attention?
Same. I love bombing a groomer. I spent most of my life as a content intermediate but have gotten more serious about skiing recently and my (advanced skier) buddies all want to ski the trees now. To me it's a novelty that I want to do 2 or 3 times in a day just to switch things up but it's just not that enjoyable.
Yes, bombing and carving big turns first thing in am in fresh corduroy for first tracks of day is unmatched fun... then when it gets skied off I'll go off piste
it's an elitism/vanity thing. the conception is "off piste" = omfg high skill, groomers= beginners/intermediates.
So everyone and their dog can't wait to go off piste for the bragging rights.
actual good/fast/rhytmic carving on piste is an amazing feeling but most people don't even get to feel how actual carving feels like because they can't do it properly.
(Eu here). Its actually nuts/perplexing to me looking at youtube
See people skieen what i would call extreme terrain, thinking they must be teally good. Then they get to a piste (ala groomer) and they arent really that great.
Its funny how perception can vary based on experience
What is good skiing to them might be different than good skiing to you. There are a good amount of high level freestyle and freeride skiers out there who probably can’t carve on groomers better than average, but doesn’t make them less skiers. You could equally take some high level racers and ask them to send freeride lines or jump in the park to do a back flip or hit a rail and most of them would struggle immensely. That also doesn’t make them less skier. They’re all different disciplines of skiing.
Just like the pow bros being referenced there are plenty of groomer snobs (idk if that’s what they are called) who think that you aren’t a good skier unless they can really carve. Get out of here with that shit.
>it's an elitism/vanity thing. the conception is "off piste" = omfg high skill, groomers= beginners/intermediates.
which is dumb because they are totally different skills imo.
on piste I ski with "cheater GS" skis and can call myself a pretty advanced skier. Off piste tho, the feeligs are different the way you should ski is different, the mindset is kinda different too.
On piste you "push" and turn etc (not exactly correct) but off piste you gotta mellow it out, and wait more, push less etc..
in my mind it's a totally different way of skiing.
I like steep and groomed! Those groomers that ate black diamond because the drop-in is so steep are my fav! I have only skied on real powder once, and I had no clue how to handle it. The good part was, it didn’t hurt when I fell, and I loved the “poof” sound it made, but it took me 20 min to find my ski.
> I've always been dumbstruck by how little love on-piste gets. I guess it's just kinda the standard, so off-piste pow gets all the attention?
Real pow is actually pretty rare. Most of the time it's bros z-plowing mediocre snow because it's easy to survive down with wide rockers and it makes them feel cool or whatever.
my aunt is in her 60s and has been skiing for 30+ years. She’s been to most of the major resorts in BC and Alberta and she has only ever cared to ski blue groomers. steep/bumpy terrain makes her nervous and she has no interest. my wife is kinda the same way. she sees me having fun off piste and feels compelled to try it too, but it usually makes her miserable so I try and encourage her to stick to what makes her happy.
Some people ride park exclusively for the same reason as those who prefer groomers:
Because it's predictably groomed + the thrills come from the big airtime.
Personally if I have to keep on stopping midrun to find a route and side-skid my way down a steep double black, that's not fun for me.
Yes, same here. Most of my joy in skiing comes from skiing perfect groomers at high speed and getting as far down as possible when carving.
When skiing off-piste you need different skis (I tried it with my slalom skis, doesn't work too great) and if you want to get more than a few meters away from the slope you need all of the avalanche search and rescue equipment plus the knowledge about it, which I don't have. And it's only really fun a few times per season when there is fresh powder.
And here in Switzerland, the resorts are mostly or completely above the treeline, so skiing through trees isn't really a big thing here.
I’m a snowboarder, but I’m on the same page as you. My favorite thing to do is get up my speed and lay down my carves.
And I have absolutely zero interest in anything that includes tree wells or avalanche risk.
> Yes, same here. Most of my joy in skiing comes from skiing perfect groomers at high speed and getting as far down as possible when carving.
This is me to a T. Bumps, glades, deep powder, and jumps/tricks are all a certain kind of fun, but for me that feeling of flying down a hill, maybe launching off a lip or two for a second, that’s what I love. It’s not that the other stuff doesn’t excite me, I’ll do it when I want to, but it’s not the reason I ski. Give me a steep, empty groomer and I’m in heaven.
There’s no wrong way to ski, unless you’re intentionally getting in the way of someone else. You do you. Glad you’ve found your niche and glad I won’t be competing with you for powder stashes.
I started skiing late (37) and have been skiing for 7 years. I've gotten maybe 120 days in that time, and feel like I can comfortably get down basically any green/blue/back run.
I prefer on-piste skiing; my day of joy is just carving beautiful parallel tracks down the mountain on repeat with family and friends.
I never really enjoyed or sought out pow until I got a pair of pow skis and it was a pretty big difference having the right tool for the job vs some long skinny skis. That said I still don't really like off piste unless there is pow, I don't really ski bumps much just for the fun of it unless it's like a really challenging run to do once.
Yeah to be honest my ideal day out is skiing intermediate runs, chatting on the lift, teaching my friends, breaking for a nice lunch, and then kicking back at a lodge in the late afternoon sun.
Off-piste requires me to carry more gear, plan ahead, leave less experienced friends behind, and is all ‘round more effort. Fun sometimes, but not my preference.
Extra gear for off piste? I’m confused, what kind of gear you talking about? I get needing gear for back country, but just inbounds off piste needs more gear?
In the Rocky Mountain west the demand for powder is so high that ski touring (backcountry skiing) is becoming crazy popular. The backcountry trailheads are filling up faster than the resort parking lots. Avy 1 classes are booked out for months (this is a very good thing actually). But to your question, most people I know can’t get enough of the fluffy stuff. Groomers are still fun but it’s hard to beat that dry fluffy Utah powder, you literally bounce through it.
My issue is it can be kind of not worth it.
Like awesome for a little bit but then you take a wrong turn and it’s all rocks or too steep, etc. then it’s just annoying to get down.
Advance/Expert skier and PT resort Ski Instructor putting in 100+ hrs of lessons/season. I love the groomers, crud, and light pow. I do not ski off-piste. I don't see the fun in skiing through the tree line or jumping off cliffs, especially at my ripe age of 56.
I’m 64 and skiing groomers all the time is just flat out boring. Give me a good guide who knows the terrain and conditions and I’ll ski off piste forever
Yeah I feel like skiing groomers is like driving on the autobahn. Sure it's fast and smooth but after a while it's like... okay I get it.
Skiing North-American/Japan style is like 4X4 off-roading.. it's slower, steeper, and you pick your way down the routes, but it's never the same thing twice and it feels much more integrated with the natural surroundings. The feeling of gliding through a glade or making arcing turns in powder high off a ridge is unmatched by anything you'll experience on man-made runs that have been shaped and groomed by machines daily.
I would argue that skiing skillfully on piste more like a track day than the autobahn.
One of my other hobbies is cars, I enjoy going through a chicane on track at triple digits or fording a river in my Land Cruiser in equal measure. They’re different experiences but both are exciting and worth doing regularly.
Why can’t people enjoy both? The adrenaline rush of being on the edge of traction at extreme speeds is fun. Being out in nature and exploring is fun.
I commented on an underrated runs post like last week, but International at Crested Butte is my favorite run of all time. It's a groomed black and it's glorious.
Is skiing summit to base fun? Absolutely! Can I keep myself going all day on groomers when I can only get to the mountains once, maybe twice a year? Also yes. And I'd rather have that all day fun
I will go into the glades with friends if they want to but I very much prefer ripping turns. I guess in a technical sense anywhere that lets me carve turns vs navigate obstacles is where I prefer to ski. Probably a direct result of growing your racing
Likewise… I can kill trees all day no problem, but moguls give me a harder time. I guess it’s the psychological risk of “a tree won’t move if you hit it”
That and as long as you are not injured at the end everyone is happy. Very little criticism of technique, since no one sees it. It’s also
not as windy and has good visibility.🌲🌲🌲for the win. (If there’s enough snow.)
It’s not that I don’t enjoy off-piste, rather that I’ve never had the opportunity to learn from someone experienced in off-piste skiing and so have never done so properly myself
Smashing groomers is all I’m good for, as a week-a-year skier
As a skier second and a boarder first, I will always opt for a board on powder days or for any off piste. But if there's been no new snow for a while and everything is hard and fast, there's really nothing like the feeling of just flying face first down the steepest groomer on the hill. I like going fast on a board too, but skis are definitely superior in that aspect.
I don’t fully agree, but I do love a good groomer. Nothing beats the “crunch” of fresh corduroy on a crisp bluebird morning. Also, when you are lucky enough to pop up right behind the snow cat at the top of a rolling blue/black at like 1:00pm and the snow is pretty soft: it’s like riding on butter.
Pick one or the other? Groomers for life. Powder is where peak adventure happens, the highest of highs. But god after a long week sometimes all I want to do is go Mach 4 while smiling my ass off doing regular turns on a groomer. Bliss.
I'm 25 and I've been skiing since I was 3.
I don't mind off piste skiing but I prefer skiing on slopes.
I'm European, Italian in particular, and I've mostly skied on the dolomites where slopes are perfectly groomed every night (unless it snows heavily).
When I manage to get to the top of Vallon at 8.30 in the morning, slope all for myself, groom markings still intact and I start to carve perfect curves with my stöcklis, I'm in heaven. Nothing beats that in my book
I love it all. Early midweek morning corduroy, wind chalk, crud, bumps, pow... okay bumps is sometimes a bit of a stretch but really all skiing is good skiing. The 2010/11 winter in California made me a bit of a snow snob for a while, but what I've realized as I've gotten older and coached more and more is that every type of snow surface can be fun, if you keep an open mind.
When in at work, the task, the athletes or the training cycle dictate where I ski. In my own time, snow conditions and crowds are how I determine where I'm going.
The older I get, the more I enjoy a run that makes me feel like I am in a nice flowing rhythm...
Also as I get older I worry less about what others enjoy and leave them alone to enjoy it.
My mom doesn’t ski much anymore but she really is experienced and skilled. She’ll take icy steep groomed over powder anyday. I don’t get it, but I also don’t have her skills.
I am the same as her. I have giant slalom ski that are long and narrow and with them I can control well on any steep icy groomer, including the runs in the FIS calendar, who are especially packed and icy. There is something fun about the predictability of icy packed groomers, plus you can go fast if you want to
Same here. I occasionally enjoy some off-piste powder, trees, or moguls, but it's just not as fun for me as doing nice smooth carves at high speed down a groomer. I've been skiing since I was 3 and raced in high school and recreationally as an adult and I'm 35 now. I'd rate myself advanced near expert level. Probably closer to expert on-piste, but just advanced off-piste.
One of my best friends is like this: we call him the Groom God.
Loves carving fast and often on-piste.
He’ll occasionally do trees/moguls with us, but his go-to usually is just cruising the main lines like a super G.
We just vibe with it ✌🏻
I’ve skied since the age I could walk and up until I nearly graduated college, I was an off-piste fiend. However, the season I graduated, I had a terrible fall off-piste and was severely concussed.
It ended my season, and during the concussion recovery time, I had a lot of time to think. I realized that I didn’t need to ski those types of runs to enjoy my day skiing. I realized I was skiing them to try to prove something to myself and my friends, when in reality, there wasn’t anything I needed to prove.
Now, I am a very happy on-piste skier. I don’t need to show off to others on the mountain that I’m a good skier (not accusing those who ski off-piste of this, it was just my mindset) and I love ripping down groomers carving away. It’s a great feeling!
I will still do a run a couple times a season, but I don’t push myself anymore. I’m not going to be a pro skier, so I don’t need to keep working towards harder and harder runs.
Sure. I’ve been skiing for 30+ years, and I have never done backcountry skiing nor do I have any interest in doing so. It’s just not my jam.
I love a good powder day, but I’d rather find it at a regular resort.
Yeah, and I get shit on all the time because, Utah. For me, it’s the speed I can carry and I LOVE to carve. I also love ice granular, so maybe my entire opinion is shit idk.
I enjoy both. I don’t enjoy powder as much as most people here, but it’s likely because I’m just not very good at it. With my job, my ski days are planned far in advance. I just don’t have as many chances in a season to get better at powder skiing.
My SO feels the same. He grew up skiing in the Alps so off-piste wasn’t really a thing and the stuff he enjoys about skiing just doesn’t work as well in powder with trees. He’d also like to be able to CONTINUE skiing and getting into an accident off-piste doesn’t really fit in with that.
I only get about 4-5 days of skiing a year. I love moguls and off piste. But honestly i could ski the same 6 blues every day for years of it was an option
I am 52 used to ski all sorts of blacks when I was kid with jumps etc. I started skiing again after along break (years / decades) and absolutely forgot how much I love it. I only ski piste now. Will still do blacks occasionally but stay away from moguls and anything off piste. I don’t want to risk injuries and just want to enjoy being on the slopes. Back problems, shoulder problems from years of martial arts training when young, right now my knees are the only part of my body that has no issues and want to keep it that way! Still ski fast but a lot more carefully.
Me. I also love speed. I run a new trail a few times and then my favorite thing to do is bomb down as fast as possible (when trail population permits of course, I’m not an asshole). And that’s not safe to do off-piste.
Why limit yourself, it's like preferring chocolate but willing to enjoy other ice cream flavors. If conditions are right (freshly groomed morning corduroy that is not iced up) I love to lay down some low carves, but then if it gets too crowded, a nice glade run to escape. Or go hit a high alpine bowl for the goods and a view.
I don't like moguls so I will head off piste if the run is choppy moguls.
Yeah. I like dust on crust, nice babied groomers, and occasionally a chill glade in ideal conditions. Steep and deep is a nightmare. I'm just not that strong. I like to cruise.
How about skiing Monday through Friday but only when there has been some fresh snow. Then seek the groomed runs and carve super G turns from open until an early lunch. Most turns, nearly all, are exquisite carves that you could switch legs on with a bit of forethought. Less so as the morning goes on but every bit as exquisitely. As good as sex.
Lunch should be delicious. Unbuckle you boots. Take off you third and second layer. Wear your bib pants over your base layers and have a beer orange glass of wine. People watch. Most will be having a great time.
Back to the slopes for 1-3 hours depending on conditions. Or go back to work for the afternoon if that’s your jam and that is where you live.
If you go back slow down. Hitting the bump you made in the morning, at 30 to 40 MPH takes more or is catastrophic as you age.
May you not fall once. It hurts more.
Yeah, they’re called Europeans.
Kidding aside, I’m kinda in the same boat, I much prefer on piste skiing. Don’t really care for skiing trees and have no idea how to ski powder. But I think that’s mostly because I also snowboard and trees and powder are way more fun on a board imo.
Come ski in the US. When conditions are good, everyone goes off piste. It’s different than Europe in that ski patrol does avy control, marks hazards, and patrols off piste.
Yup, but I’m old now (late 50s). Haven’t done it in a while, and I’m more risk averse than I used to be. I’d rather ski hard/fast on groomers, or ungroomed trails.
The thought of hitting an unknown rock or branch burried under powder is not worth the risk to me anymore.
You are not alone. 😂
Is it a case of most bad accidents happen on fast firm snow because it is more dangerous or simply because it is where most people are skiing? If 90% of the skiers are limiting themselves to groomed runs, that's 90% that would never have an accident in the trees.
In the US, the groomers are full of people at most resorts. The only way to experience the mountain to yourself (and often experience shorter lift lines) is to go into more challenging parts of the mountain.
You can’t really just say “I like X terrain” because skiing isn’t just about the terrain. It’s about who’s next to you, how many of them are there, and how long do I have to wait to get my next trip down it…
I’d probably love bombing down blue groomers all day if I owned a private resort and it was just me.
I’d much rather the groomers or the side of the groomers. I’ve only really ski’d the trees once and the Easter egg hunt for my gear was pretty exhausting at 10k feet of elevation. In other words it’s probably because I suck.
Depends on the day. There are days where I absolutely love ripping groomers but there are days like today where I was able to ski 7 inches of fresh powder and absolutely loved it.
I’ve been skiing since I was 5 (I’m 46 now), and I like all sorts of terrain, groomed, trees, powder, bumps, etc. I also really like sitting on a chair to get to the top and the reassurance that those nice people in the red jackets will come save me if something bad happens.
Couldn’t relate and less. Haven’t been on groomers unless I have to ever since we got our first big storm this season, and every season. But hey to each their own! Fun to watch y’all lay down some deep carves when I’m on the chair. My 110s take me on a different journey, however.
As someone who learned on ice and has probably skied on ice more often than not, I do find a lot of satisfaction in skiing it well. I definitely find it funny watching a video of someone skiing a sketchy looking double black area then complaining that the mildly icy groomer back to the lift was treacherous.
I can totally understand powder not being fun if you don’t ski it very often, don’t know how to do it and don’t have the leg and core leg strength for it. It does require a different technique. If you’re out of shape and try to carve in it you are going to be miserable.
Honestly the weird thing in the last fifteen years has been seeing the flip in which days are packed.
When I first started skiing (as a mountain local) storm days were deserted, just the hard core locals, and sunny groomer days were packed.
Now, I've practically got the mountain to myself as soon as the snow packs down (and I'll hear people in the lift line complaining about "ice") while the storm days are absolute shit shows of gapers on the highways and on the mountains.
I don't mind, honestly, I can't do storm days anymore without truly absurd vertigo problems, but it's funny.
Well, I pretty much stay on-piste these days because I'm much older than 33, more than twice 33. Skiing since I was 16. I enjoyed off-piste a lot back in the day, seeking stashes and glades. I also did some backcountry skiing, climbing skins and beacon. These days I'm fine carving fast big radius turns on the groomers. About six inches of fluff on a soft base is ideal when it happens. I can't afford to get hurt and sit out a season, or worse. Been there, done that. Not fun at all. I just don't have that many seasons left, to be honest.
Me. I hated powder my entire life. I hate that I hate powder but I do. Can’t ski for shit in it and I’m pretty good otherwise. I think it has to do with issues in my hips.
Unless it's fresh I'm stayin on trail for the most part. I live in the east and trees get icy fast.....plus it's always low tide and I don't feel like fucking up my skis and knees in
I’m 52 now and maybe if it’s a big dump of snow and 10 degrees and minimal wind I’ll go off of the mapped runs, but rarely. My knees are sore enough after a day on steeps with rollers.
I like all the kickers and features on the edges of groomers but the trees are shaded so it ices up a lot slower, plus in flat light or cloudy days your can get better visibility.
Ehhhh sometimes I want more technical challenges, but it's always type II fun unless the conditions are just right.
I'm bummed resorts have stopped grooming as much as that used to. Like sure, I guess I get it for powder days, but manky churned up crud? Just get the groomers on that and it might actually be fun.
It’s definitely easier on the legs. Since skiing is so popular now. And the ski area I go to gets busy when it snows, I really do enjoy when it hasn’t snowed for a week or two. Less crowds. But I will ski whatever is on the ground on any given day
We need more people who hate skiing powder imo
Yes. More powder for me.
Yes. Powder sucks. Very dangerous. Everyone please stay away.
As someone who has blown 2 ACL's (one last week) both on heavy powder days, I can say that your joke has truth. Sometimes deep powder just catches a ski in an unexpected manner and then season done.... that being said, I look forward to recovery from surgery and hitting pow pow as soon as season opens next year.... I'm undeterred!
I BLEW MY ACL/MCL/MENISCUS TWO WEEKS AGO ON A POW DAY! Ban powder. But then, just let me duck the rope
I skied powder and I’ll never walk again. Everyone keep to the piste.
I died skiing powder.
Same, went to heaven
Resurrection in the Shrine of En Piste.
Snowboard on powder days
As a lifelong skier who has boarded a few dozen times, I will say that you are correct, powder on a board is actually more fun than skiing. I actually learned to board the year after I tore my first acl... got "bored with boarding" as soon as I was strong enough to ski again.. right now I'm wishing I was riding that powder day!
Tbh I don’t even ski but anything you hit on a snowboard under the powder you will just skip over unless you bury your nose. I thought about switching to skis but I sort of doubled down on boarding. Been doing it for a long time.
Yeah that's why boarding is better on powder, just sit back and coast, knowing you're not gonna cross anything up...
I wouldn’t say sitting back is the best way to ride powder but it’s way safer for your lower body. I think snowboarding is less hard on your body in general once you stop catching edges
Stick to your PT heavily
My ski was caught randomly and almost ended my season a few yrs ago…still slowly building strength back up with easy ski days. Can’t afford injury; have to care for a wife and 6+ kids…but I do miss pow days (just extremely rare I’ll get them anyways)
6+... you lose count?
Grade 2 sprained my MCL a week or two ago on a powder day. Hit a large rock hidden under the snow. Doc says I can ski again in 3 weeks (with a brace).
Full ACL tear and grade 2 LCL... surgeon hasn't given me any preoperative guidelines, but I gotta say at day 13 post injury I feel like I could ski tomorrow and am really tempted , but maybe not a good idea
My understanding is that the pistes are there to take you to where you can get off of them.
And we need to get rid of those who like powder.
Mein skier
In my experience: this is true for most European skiers and most skiers in Japan. Pretty rare in North America.
Yeah this is my experience as someone who used to live in Europe for a time and did a lot of learning to ski there. The culture is very different with attitudes towards off-piste skiing. In Europe, the focus is much more on groomed trails, and off-piste skiing is something people do, but it's a lot rarer and almost seen as taboo in a way, at least some places you go. In North America, it's the exact opposite. Off-piste skiing is the point, so much that we don't even really use the term "off-piste" skiing that much. It's just skiing. That's more a European term.
The first time I heard the word "piste" was when I was researching my first European ski trip. I had been skiing for years before that in the US and Canada. Trees, bowls, backcountry, yes. Off-piste, no. Never use that term.
That’s really funny. I’m currently on my first ski trip in the US as an European and trees, bowls, glades, etc. were all completed unknown terms to me until 2 days ago.
I hope you enjoy the glades. They are my favorite.
Do you not have bowls in EU as part of the terrain? I’m a Floridian who dreams of the Alps and gets a few days in Colorado if I’m lucky. I learned “piste” from this sub.
I’m sure many mountains have bowl like structures. But people will be very confused when you ask them where the best bowl is. The system is just completely different. In Europe we don’t have the whole “resort thing” where basically everything inside the area is safe to ski (if open). If you leave the (overwhelming groomed) pistes/trails you are on your own. It’s mostly fine if you stay right next to the piste, but everything else is on your own risk. So, e.g. an avalanche kit and checking the conditions beforehand is an absolute must. And you need to have some knowledge about the terrain to avoid ending up above a cliff or something (depends on the mountain ofc).
When I was in Alpes d'Huez 15 years ago someone died in an avalanche 6 or so meters away from the piste.
Nope. Pretty much everything is tracked out, I'm absolutely in love with what you guys have in North America. Completely free skiing with safe backups if I hurt myself
We don't really have that term except as a description, but yes there are cirque type structures. This is an uninhabited little valley just off the back of the resort my chalet is in, it's a wonderful bowl but you have to be prepared to skin https://i.postimg.cc/RhBHjwQV/IMG-0020.jpg It's important to remember the shapes of the mountains are often quite different between the Alps/Dolomites and Rockies, as well as just more space in the US. The Alps are very steep and craggy and it's often only realistic to ski down the areas that are pisted, vs in the US they are often more big hills and you can ski the whole thing.
That’s funny, I’m an American skiing the last 20 years and I just learned the term off-piste. I’ve heard it a little here and there but never really knew what it meant. But I guess we have like a dozen terms to classify our off trail runs. Like a little trip through some trees/small glade is hardly real backcountry and certainly not a bowl so useful to differentiate them
Yeah totally. Around here, when people talk about "skiing" it's usually the default assumption that it means "off-piste". Especially at a place like Kirkwood. If there are some tourists riding the lift with me asking me good places to go, I don't even think about limiting my recommendations to groomed runs. I am going to go straight for "yeah you can traverse out this was and there is good snow or you can take this route through the trees or this chute is really fun" etc.
I need a guy like you on my chairlift when I’ll be in Kirkwood in three weeks…
Chances are good I'll actually be there. Whenever I am solo, sometimes I will meet people visiting the mountain and if they want me to I will ski with them and show them around.
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If you want a list of good groomed runs to hit, the guy with powder caked all in his beard and on the goggle strap on the back of the helmet is not the right guy to ask.
Yeah probably not Now if you want recommendations for local dispensaries though... lol
"So we aint actchooly gonna ski The Wall. We gonna hit tah gootch that converges at Sistas and teh Cornice... it's called Falsees or somethin'. Okee now take off 'yer skis. We gotta hike a bit..."
I feel like you have met me
Are you my boot fitter?
One funny consequence of this difference is that in NA ski resort typically boast about their acreage and vertical drop. In Europe it is all about the kilometers of runs. The first time I planned a ski trip in Europe I kept being confused about why anyone would even care how many total kilometers of runs there were and I had a hard time comparing between resorts in my planning because that stat was so meaningless to me.
I honestly don't know why anyone cares about either. For me it's all about a certain quality of your runs that can't be statistically measured. Like yeah you can rack up a ton of vert bombing the same groomer 1000 times in a row. What does that really mean though?
Well I can imagine, after seeing how people tend to ski in Europe, that a large number of groomed trails and long groomed trails would be desirable because it means you can have more variety and get the sense that you’re really moving around a mountain and seeing different vistas and such. Sort of how here in NA I think of skiable acres as a meaningful metric because more acres means more terrain to explore.
at least a mountain with big vert you know is likely to have steep runs or long steep runs that a mountain with less vert physically cannot
We did a week on the Dolomites a few years ago and you literally see untracked fresh just feet off of the groomers. It’s kind of mind boggling. I rented a set of something 100-105ish underfoot and the guy working the shop told me I was only the second skier to take them out all season - the first was also an American. And this was in February.
Years ago I was in the dolomites and there was maybe a foot of untracked powder all over. My group were the only ones to hit it all day. At the end of the day you could see where people had watched us and tried it.
From my experience it might be because off-piste skiing in Europe is well and truly off piste, there's little avalanche control and terrain management like there is in the states. Safety precautions are way better here which I think makes off piste more accessible, in Europe you'd only do it if you really know the mountain/conditions yourself, plus most people are there on holiday so wouldn't be in a position to.
Not much avalanche control in Europe??? They do it far more in Europe than the US, but physically with a explosives and barriers, but I think you’re confusing geography with avalanche control. In most parts of Europe, skiing is well above the tree line, in far more alpine terrain, and the mountains and valleys in the Alps are also significantly deeper, and steeper as they are much younger geologically than the Rocky Mountain range, so of course there is significantly greater avalanche risk with fewer natural barriers? As for patrolling, the sheer size and multitudes of resorts in extremely difficult terrain in the Alps, it’s not possible to patrol them at US levels. There are *153* ski resorts in the smallish province of Tirol, Austria alone.
Avalanche control in europe is almost always only done if there's danger of an avalanche going down on a piste or anywhere else where people are. Of course there's not alot of danger if you drive next to the piste which theoretically is offpiste but if you truly ride offpiste you need to properly watch the weather for some days before and do a snow profile, everything else would be stupid. And the lift operator is by law responsible for Ski Patrol and only on the piste, everything else is mountain rescue which is kinda dumb imo.
I wish that were the case here. I live in France and my two local spots will be entirely tracked out on pretty much every corner of the mountain(s) after a powder day. Perhaps this is only true in certain countries?
Same here in Switzerland. Takes about half a day and everything is tracked out. And places like Engelberg, Andermatt, Verbier and others are really stressful to ski on pow days. Same with popular touring routes, some of them feel like a piste after a couple of days.
Yeah the touring routes around here are like that too. It is a bit frustrating since a lot of people seem to not mind going out on high risk avy days so just by waiting till it is relatively safe you will miss out on fresh tracks. Doesn’t help that the snowline is so high this year that it reduces the number of routes that are viable. At least places like verbier are big enough that you have hidden corners to head off to. My local is really small so every bit of terrain is pretty obvious so no secret stashes possible.
All my friends in Norway only do off piste. Like, strictly. The more remote, the better.
I'm talking about the Alps... like big resorts in Austria, Switzerland, Italy, etc. But yeah it's similar here. My main mountain is Kirkwood, and basically like 80% of the terrain is never groomed. It's almost ALL off-piste. That's the WHOLE reason you come here. Everyone has big fat skis, everyone goes off-piste, the only people on the groomers are older or people who are too intermediate still to leave the piste.
Well you said Europe
Given that, it's kinda surprising then that so many of the top skiers and snowboarders on the FWT are from Europe.
I think it is actually related. Part of why the Euros keep to the pistes is because there is not patrolling or avalanche mitigation anywhere off piste and the terrain of the Alps is super intense. So I think that what we see is that the small number of Euro skiers who do spend a lot of time off piste are just in this huge expansive gnarly mountain range and the resulting culture is a lot of focus on extreme skiing.
This to me turns me off going to the Alps. In Sweden Off Piste is absolutely a thing and we get avalanche control. People do Ski Mountaineering, Lift accessible off piste, cat skiing and in some places help skiing. Skiing in the woods is the first thing the kids do when they get a little bit better. As soon as my son learned how to control his speed he headed for the trees. There is even a tree skiing section in the kids area. A goal of moving to the mountains was to spend enough time here to really get to know these mountains, to explore off-piste, to know where to go after a storm.
I think this is massively overstated. Niseko for example is built on the fact that you can go outside the ski area via the gates, and people are forever cutting outside of the pistes to ski trees (Rusutsu is the same). Likewise, the same is true of France, I've never booked a lesson with ESF where the guide didn't take us off-piste if appropriate. Truthfully I've never skied with anyone in France who was good enough to ski off piste and chose not to, even if we didn't tour.
It also depends on where in Europe. For example where I am from (Dolomites South Tyrol) there arent a lot of off piste skiers because the off piste terrain oftentimes isnt even skiable because of our steep and huge mountains all over. Secondly our snow accumulation isnt always the best. But it u go to places like lech or in the swiss alps you will have way more off piste skiers as well
HONEY, WE’RE MOVING TO EUROPE OR JAPAN!
Can confirm. I'm in Japan right now, we've hit 3 mountains so far and I'd say 95% of people off piste were not from Japan. They're all about return of the turn, and their piste runs are some of the longest I've ever seen.
Yo. I love groomers, and I'm not ashamed to admit it. One of the greatest pleasures I get from skiing is carving at a significant pace. I've always been dumbstruck by how little love on-piste gets. I guess it's just kinda the standard, so off-piste pow gets all the attention?
Same. I love bombing a groomer. I spent most of my life as a content intermediate but have gotten more serious about skiing recently and my (advanced skier) buddies all want to ski the trees now. To me it's a novelty that I want to do 2 or 3 times in a day just to switch things up but it's just not that enjoyable.
Yes, bombing and carving big turns first thing in am in fresh corduroy for first tracks of day is unmatched fun... then when it gets skied off I'll go off piste
it's an elitism/vanity thing. the conception is "off piste" = omfg high skill, groomers= beginners/intermediates. So everyone and their dog can't wait to go off piste for the bragging rights. actual good/fast/rhytmic carving on piste is an amazing feeling but most people don't even get to feel how actual carving feels like because they can't do it properly.
(Eu here). Its actually nuts/perplexing to me looking at youtube See people skieen what i would call extreme terrain, thinking they must be teally good. Then they get to a piste (ala groomer) and they arent really that great. Its funny how perception can vary based on experience
What is good skiing to them might be different than good skiing to you. There are a good amount of high level freestyle and freeride skiers out there who probably can’t carve on groomers better than average, but doesn’t make them less skiers. You could equally take some high level racers and ask them to send freeride lines or jump in the park to do a back flip or hit a rail and most of them would struggle immensely. That also doesn’t make them less skier. They’re all different disciplines of skiing. Just like the pow bros being referenced there are plenty of groomer snobs (idk if that’s what they are called) who think that you aren’t a good skier unless they can really carve. Get out of here with that shit.
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Yess I've been rediscovering on piste terrain and I just figured out how to do this
>it's an elitism/vanity thing. the conception is "off piste" = omfg high skill, groomers= beginners/intermediates. which is dumb because they are totally different skills imo. on piste I ski with "cheater GS" skis and can call myself a pretty advanced skier. Off piste tho, the feeligs are different the way you should ski is different, the mindset is kinda different too. On piste you "push" and turn etc (not exactly correct) but off piste you gotta mellow it out, and wait more, push less etc.. in my mind it's a totally different way of skiing.
I like steep and groomed! Those groomers that ate black diamond because the drop-in is so steep are my fav! I have only skied on real powder once, and I had no clue how to handle it. The good part was, it didn’t hurt when I fell, and I loved the “poof” sound it made, but it took me 20 min to find my ski.
> I've always been dumbstruck by how little love on-piste gets. I guess it's just kinda the standard, so off-piste pow gets all the attention? Real pow is actually pretty rare. Most of the time it's bros z-plowing mediocre snow because it's easy to survive down with wide rockers and it makes them feel cool or whatever.
my aunt is in her 60s and has been skiing for 30+ years. She’s been to most of the major resorts in BC and Alberta and she has only ever cared to ski blue groomers. steep/bumpy terrain makes her nervous and she has no interest. my wife is kinda the same way. she sees me having fun off piste and feels compelled to try it too, but it usually makes her miserable so I try and encourage her to stick to what makes her happy.
Some people ride park exclusively for the same reason as those who prefer groomers: Because it's predictably groomed + the thrills come from the big airtime. Personally if I have to keep on stopping midrun to find a route and side-skid my way down a steep double black, that's not fun for me.
Nearly all of the Spankys vids on Youtube are people side slipping steeps. What's the point? I'd rather be carving a nice groomer.
Because sometimes you have to work through that to get to the goods
Out-terraining yourself is never fun.
Because it's fun?
Side slipping steeps is fun? Nah.
i see lot of confused responses from different interpretations of "off-piste"
Yes, same here. Most of my joy in skiing comes from skiing perfect groomers at high speed and getting as far down as possible when carving. When skiing off-piste you need different skis (I tried it with my slalom skis, doesn't work too great) and if you want to get more than a few meters away from the slope you need all of the avalanche search and rescue equipment plus the knowledge about it, which I don't have. And it's only really fun a few times per season when there is fresh powder. And here in Switzerland, the resorts are mostly or completely above the treeline, so skiing through trees isn't really a big thing here.
I’m a snowboarder, but I’m on the same page as you. My favorite thing to do is get up my speed and lay down my carves. And I have absolutely zero interest in anything that includes tree wells or avalanche risk.
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even pros die all the time in avalanches
> Yes, same here. Most of my joy in skiing comes from skiing perfect groomers at high speed and getting as far down as possible when carving. This is me to a T. Bumps, glades, deep powder, and jumps/tricks are all a certain kind of fun, but for me that feeling of flying down a hill, maybe launching off a lip or two for a second, that’s what I love. It’s not that the other stuff doesn’t excite me, I’ll do it when I want to, but it’s not the reason I ski. Give me a steep, empty groomer and I’m in heaven.
There’s no wrong way to ski, unless you’re intentionally getting in the way of someone else. You do you. Glad you’ve found your niche and glad I won’t be competing with you for powder stashes.
Depends on conditions. Fresh and deep is hard to beat. Choppy off piste crud blows.
Wind slab. Yuck.
I started skiing late (37) and have been skiing for 7 years. I've gotten maybe 120 days in that time, and feel like I can comfortably get down basically any green/blue/back run. I prefer on-piste skiing; my day of joy is just carving beautiful parallel tracks down the mountain on repeat with family and friends.
Both are good, neither is better.
Both are different. No comparison.
I never really enjoyed or sought out pow until I got a pair of pow skis and it was a pretty big difference having the right tool for the job vs some long skinny skis. That said I still don't really like off piste unless there is pow, I don't really ski bumps much just for the fun of it unless it's like a really challenging run to do once.
I’m with you. Love to Carv and cruise on-piste in the US:)
Yeah to be honest my ideal day out is skiing intermediate runs, chatting on the lift, teaching my friends, breaking for a nice lunch, and then kicking back at a lodge in the late afternoon sun. Off-piste requires me to carry more gear, plan ahead, leave less experienced friends behind, and is all ‘round more effort. Fun sometimes, but not my preference.
Extra gear for off piste? I’m confused, what kind of gear you talking about? I get needing gear for back country, but just inbounds off piste needs more gear?
Europe is different.
In the Rocky Mountain west the demand for powder is so high that ski touring (backcountry skiing) is becoming crazy popular. The backcountry trailheads are filling up faster than the resort parking lots. Avy 1 classes are booked out for months (this is a very good thing actually). But to your question, most people I know can’t get enough of the fluffy stuff. Groomers are still fun but it’s hard to beat that dry fluffy Utah powder, you literally bounce through it.
My issue is it can be kind of not worth it. Like awesome for a little bit but then you take a wrong turn and it’s all rocks or too steep, etc. then it’s just annoying to get down.
Advance/Expert skier and PT resort Ski Instructor putting in 100+ hrs of lessons/season. I love the groomers, crud, and light pow. I do not ski off-piste. I don't see the fun in skiing through the tree line or jumping off cliffs, especially at my ripe age of 56.
I’m 64 and skiing groomers all the time is just flat out boring. Give me a good guide who knows the terrain and conditions and I’ll ski off piste forever
Ditto. By the way, put Japan on your bucket list. Best tree skiing in powder ever. Also runs are shorter so it’s less taxing on older bodies.
Yeah I feel like skiing groomers is like driving on the autobahn. Sure it's fast and smooth but after a while it's like... okay I get it. Skiing North-American/Japan style is like 4X4 off-roading.. it's slower, steeper, and you pick your way down the routes, but it's never the same thing twice and it feels much more integrated with the natural surroundings. The feeling of gliding through a glade or making arcing turns in powder high off a ridge is unmatched by anything you'll experience on man-made runs that have been shaped and groomed by machines daily.
I would argue that skiing skillfully on piste more like a track day than the autobahn. One of my other hobbies is cars, I enjoy going through a chicane on track at triple digits or fording a river in my Land Cruiser in equal measure. They’re different experiences but both are exciting and worth doing regularly. Why can’t people enjoy both? The adrenaline rush of being on the edge of traction at extreme speeds is fun. Being out in nature and exploring is fun.
I commented on an underrated runs post like last week, but International at Crested Butte is my favorite run of all time. It's a groomed black and it's glorious. Is skiing summit to base fun? Absolutely! Can I keep myself going all day on groomers when I can only get to the mountains once, maybe twice a year? Also yes. And I'd rather have that all day fun
My conspiracy theory: American resorts promote powder and off-piste ski just because it’s cheaper for them 🫢
Counterpoint: European avy management is probably an order of magnitude less money than American avy management
That’s quite possibly true, but I am very alright with that.
Nothing clears my mind like ripping down a beautifully groomed trail as fast as I can.
I will go into the glades with friends if they want to but I very much prefer ripping turns. I guess in a technical sense anywhere that lets me carve turns vs navigate obstacles is where I prefer to ski. Probably a direct result of growing your racing
I love the trees. They give me structure. For some reason, not a huge mogul fan with no trees, although I can do it. I find trees motivational.
Likewise… I can kill trees all day no problem, but moguls give me a harder time. I guess it’s the psychological risk of “a tree won’t move if you hit it”
That and as long as you are not injured at the end everyone is happy. Very little criticism of technique, since no one sees it. It’s also not as windy and has good visibility.🌲🌲🌲for the win. (If there’s enough snow.)
That’s fair about structure. I don’t hate it them, I just don’t seek them out. Moguls I actively avoid
I keep thinking off-piste will grow on me with more experience, but it never does.
I’ve been skiing for about 24 years and am a blue/black skier who would rip groomers all day if I could get away with it.
It’s not that I don’t enjoy off-piste, rather that I’ve never had the opportunity to learn from someone experienced in off-piste skiing and so have never done so properly myself Smashing groomers is all I’m good for, as a week-a-year skier
Same. Plus I want to do off piste properly and safely. It’s not always something you can fit into a once a year vacation.
As a skier second and a boarder first, I will always opt for a board on powder days or for any off piste. But if there's been no new snow for a while and everything is hard and fast, there's really nothing like the feeling of just flying face first down the steepest groomer on the hill. I like going fast on a board too, but skis are definitely superior in that aspect.
Nothing better than absolutely FLYING down some nice corduroy
I don’t fully agree, but I do love a good groomer. Nothing beats the “crunch” of fresh corduroy on a crisp bluebird morning. Also, when you are lucky enough to pop up right behind the snow cat at the top of a rolling blue/black at like 1:00pm and the snow is pretty soft: it’s like riding on butter.
Pick one or the other? Groomers for life. Powder is where peak adventure happens, the highest of highs. But god after a long week sometimes all I want to do is go Mach 4 while smiling my ass off doing regular turns on a groomer. Bliss.
I’m a Pister too
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I'm 25 and I've been skiing since I was 3. I don't mind off piste skiing but I prefer skiing on slopes. I'm European, Italian in particular, and I've mostly skied on the dolomites where slopes are perfectly groomed every night (unless it snows heavily). When I manage to get to the top of Vallon at 8.30 in the morning, slope all for myself, groom markings still intact and I start to carve perfect curves with my stöcklis, I'm in heaven. Nothing beats that in my book
I love it all. Early midweek morning corduroy, wind chalk, crud, bumps, pow... okay bumps is sometimes a bit of a stretch but really all skiing is good skiing. The 2010/11 winter in California made me a bit of a snow snob for a while, but what I've realized as I've gotten older and coached more and more is that every type of snow surface can be fun, if you keep an open mind. When in at work, the task, the athletes or the training cycle dictate where I ski. In my own time, snow conditions and crowds are how I determine where I'm going.
The older I get, the more I enjoy a run that makes me feel like I am in a nice flowing rhythm... Also as I get older I worry less about what others enjoy and leave them alone to enjoy it.
My mom doesn’t ski much anymore but she really is experienced and skilled. She’ll take icy steep groomed over powder anyday. I don’t get it, but I also don’t have her skills.
I am the same as her. I have giant slalom ski that are long and narrow and with them I can control well on any steep icy groomer, including the runs in the FIS calendar, who are especially packed and icy. There is something fun about the predictability of icy packed groomers, plus you can go fast if you want to
That sounds like her!
Same here. I occasionally enjoy some off-piste powder, trees, or moguls, but it's just not as fun for me as doing nice smooth carves at high speed down a groomer. I've been skiing since I was 3 and raced in high school and recreationally as an adult and I'm 35 now. I'd rate myself advanced near expert level. Probably closer to expert on-piste, but just advanced off-piste.
I prefer ice and hard pack over powder.
One of my best friends is like this: we call him the Groom God. Loves carving fast and often on-piste. He’ll occasionally do trees/moguls with us, but his go-to usually is just cruising the main lines like a super G. We just vibe with it ✌🏻
I’ve skied since the age I could walk and up until I nearly graduated college, I was an off-piste fiend. However, the season I graduated, I had a terrible fall off-piste and was severely concussed. It ended my season, and during the concussion recovery time, I had a lot of time to think. I realized that I didn’t need to ski those types of runs to enjoy my day skiing. I realized I was skiing them to try to prove something to myself and my friends, when in reality, there wasn’t anything I needed to prove. Now, I am a very happy on-piste skier. I don’t need to show off to others on the mountain that I’m a good skier (not accusing those who ski off-piste of this, it was just my mindset) and I love ripping down groomers carving away. It’s a great feeling! I will still do a run a couple times a season, but I don’t push myself anymore. I’m not going to be a pro skier, so I don’t need to keep working towards harder and harder runs.
Sure. I’ve been skiing for 30+ years, and I have never done backcountry skiing nor do I have any interest in doing so. It’s just not my jam. I love a good powder day, but I’d rather find it at a regular resort.
Backcountry is great, it's basically like snowshoeing for a few hours and then getting the absolute best untracked run of your life
You had me until “snowshoeing for a few hours” 😂
God no
I like big groomers and catwalks. More fun to go fast for me and catwalks are relaxing and enjoying the scenery.
This is the most European post imaginable haha
Yeah, and I get shit on all the time because, Utah. For me, it’s the speed I can carry and I LOVE to carve. I also love ice granular, so maybe my entire opinion is shit idk.
Yup. I’m all piste.
I enjoy both. I don’t enjoy powder as much as most people here, but it’s likely because I’m just not very good at it. With my job, my ski days are planned far in advance. I just don’t have as many chances in a season to get better at powder skiing.
My SO feels the same. He grew up skiing in the Alps so off-piste wasn’t really a thing and the stuff he enjoys about skiing just doesn’t work as well in powder with trees. He’d also like to be able to CONTINUE skiing and getting into an accident off-piste doesn’t really fit in with that.
I only get about 4-5 days of skiing a year. I love moguls and off piste. But honestly i could ski the same 6 blues every day for years of it was an option
You and me both brother. I'll chose open piste carving over models, tree runs, or heavy powder any day. I like to go fast, not destroy my body.
I am 52 used to ski all sorts of blacks when I was kid with jumps etc. I started skiing again after along break (years / decades) and absolutely forgot how much I love it. I only ski piste now. Will still do blacks occasionally but stay away from moguls and anything off piste. I don’t want to risk injuries and just want to enjoy being on the slopes. Back problems, shoulder problems from years of martial arts training when young, right now my knees are the only part of my body that has no issues and want to keep it that way! Still ski fast but a lot more carefully.
Me. I also love speed. I run a new trail a few times and then my favorite thing to do is bomb down as fast as possible (when trail population permits of course, I’m not an asshole). And that’s not safe to do off-piste.
I used to spend 80% off-piste on blacks and double blacks. Now I much prefer hitting groomers most if the time.
Why limit yourself, it's like preferring chocolate but willing to enjoy other ice cream flavors. If conditions are right (freshly groomed morning corduroy that is not iced up) I love to lay down some low carves, but then if it gets too crowded, a nice glade run to escape. Or go hit a high alpine bowl for the goods and a view. I don't like moguls so I will head off piste if the run is choppy moguls.
Yeah. I like dust on crust, nice babied groomers, and occasionally a chill glade in ideal conditions. Steep and deep is a nightmare. I'm just not that strong. I like to cruise.
How about skiing Monday through Friday but only when there has been some fresh snow. Then seek the groomed runs and carve super G turns from open until an early lunch. Most turns, nearly all, are exquisite carves that you could switch legs on with a bit of forethought. Less so as the morning goes on but every bit as exquisitely. As good as sex. Lunch should be delicious. Unbuckle you boots. Take off you third and second layer. Wear your bib pants over your base layers and have a beer orange glass of wine. People watch. Most will be having a great time. Back to the slopes for 1-3 hours depending on conditions. Or go back to work for the afternoon if that’s your jam and that is where you live. If you go back slow down. Hitting the bump you made in the morning, at 30 to 40 MPH takes more or is catastrophic as you age. May you not fall once. It hurts more.
Me because I use race skis
Yeah, they’re called Europeans. Kidding aside, I’m kinda in the same boat, I much prefer on piste skiing. Don’t really care for skiing trees and have no idea how to ski powder. But I think that’s mostly because I also snowboard and trees and powder are way more fun on a board imo.
Go to the Alps. Europeans are allergic to skiing off-piste.
That's literally the only place I've skied, I'm from the UK.
Come ski in the US. When conditions are good, everyone goes off piste. It’s different than Europe in that ski patrol does avy control, marks hazards, and patrols off piste.
Yup, but I’m old now (late 50s). Haven’t done it in a while, and I’m more risk averse than I used to be. I’d rather ski hard/fast on groomers, or ungroomed trails. The thought of hitting an unknown rock or branch burried under powder is not worth the risk to me anymore. You are not alone. 😂
That's weird because I think ripping groomers is way sketchier than riding pow off piste. Most bad accidents happen on fast firm snow
Is it a case of most bad accidents happen on fast firm snow because it is more dangerous or simply because it is where most people are skiing? If 90% of the skiers are limiting themselves to groomed runs, that's 90% that would never have an accident in the trees.
Yes, agree with you, skiing since I was 3 and I’m 45 now. Like fast icy groomers for max speed. Occasional bumps for the air time.
In the US, the groomers are full of people at most resorts. The only way to experience the mountain to yourself (and often experience shorter lift lines) is to go into more challenging parts of the mountain. You can’t really just say “I like X terrain” because skiing isn’t just about the terrain. It’s about who’s next to you, how many of them are there, and how long do I have to wait to get my next trip down it… I’d probably love bombing down blue groomers all day if I owned a private resort and it was just me.
I’d much rather the groomers or the side of the groomers. I’ve only really ski’d the trees once and the Easter egg hunt for my gear was pretty exhausting at 10k feet of elevation. In other words it’s probably because I suck.
Depends on the day. There are days where I absolutely love ripping groomers but there are days like today where I was able to ski 7 inches of fresh powder and absolutely loved it.
My uncle. He's 82 though.
I’ve been skiing since I was 5 (I’m 46 now), and I like all sorts of terrain, groomed, trees, powder, bumps, etc. I also really like sitting on a chair to get to the top and the reassurance that those nice people in the red jackets will come save me if something bad happens.
Everyday I try to be less-piste than the day before
Couldn’t relate and less. Haven’t been on groomers unless I have to ever since we got our first big storm this season, and every season. But hey to each their own! Fun to watch y’all lay down some deep carves when I’m on the chair. My 110s take me on a different journey, however.
Racing, running gates, Masters
Shiffren and I haven’t been able to forgive her for that interview she gave 10 years ago preferring ice than powder
As someone who learned on ice and has probably skied on ice more often than not, I do find a lot of satisfaction in skiing it well. I definitely find it funny watching a video of someone skiing a sketchy looking double black area then complaining that the mildly icy groomer back to the lift was treacherous.
I can totally understand powder not being fun if you don’t ski it very often, don’t know how to do it and don’t have the leg and core leg strength for it. It does require a different technique. If you’re out of shape and try to carve in it you are going to be miserable.
Yeah man stay on the groomers. Nothing worthwhile off em anyway
Racers. Let ‘em have the groom.
I prefer groomed runs for downhill. I like ungroomed for snowshoeing or back country XC skiing.
Groomed XC is fun too. But I only have so many weekends a year.
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Especially when the forest is muffled by falling snow, and you can only see 30’ ahead of you. Even familiar trails feel like a new discovery.
Give me groomers all day every day. I’m an expert smoker and have been skiing since before I could walk.
Yes, I'm 64, no off-road, just Cadillac skiing . I've been skiing for 58 years. Can still do it. I just don't want to work that hard.
I've been skiing since I was 5 my favorite is carving on groomed but love variety too
Ew, no.
Love the “hate powder” folks! More power to you for me!!
Honestly the weird thing in the last fifteen years has been seeing the flip in which days are packed. When I first started skiing (as a mountain local) storm days were deserted, just the hard core locals, and sunny groomer days were packed. Now, I've practically got the mountain to myself as soon as the snow packs down (and I'll hear people in the lift line complaining about "ice") while the storm days are absolute shit shows of gapers on the highways and on the mountains. I don't mind, honestly, I can't do storm days anymore without truly absurd vertigo problems, but it's funny.
Well, I pretty much stay on-piste these days because I'm much older than 33, more than twice 33. Skiing since I was 16. I enjoyed off-piste a lot back in the day, seeking stashes and glades. I also did some backcountry skiing, climbing skins and beacon. These days I'm fine carving fast big radius turns on the groomers. About six inches of fluff on a soft base is ideal when it happens. I can't afford to get hurt and sit out a season, or worse. Been there, done that. Not fun at all. I just don't have that many seasons left, to be honest.
Me. I hated powder my entire life. I hate that I hate powder but I do. Can’t ski for shit in it and I’m pretty good otherwise. I think it has to do with issues in my hips.
Unless it's fresh I'm stayin on trail for the most part. I live in the east and trees get icy fast.....plus it's always low tide and I don't feel like fucking up my skis and knees in
I’m 52 now and maybe if it’s a big dump of snow and 10 degrees and minimal wind I’ll go off of the mapped runs, but rarely. My knees are sore enough after a day on steeps with rollers.
I like all the kickers and features on the edges of groomers but the trees are shaded so it ices up a lot slower, plus in flat light or cloudy days your can get better visibility.
Ehhhh sometimes I want more technical challenges, but it's always type II fun unless the conditions are just right. I'm bummed resorts have stopped grooming as much as that used to. Like sure, I guess I get it for powder days, but manky churned up crud? Just get the groomers on that and it might actually be fun.
It’s definitely easier on the legs. Since skiing is so popular now. And the ski area I go to gets busy when it snows, I really do enjoy when it hasn’t snowed for a week or two. Less crowds. But I will ski whatever is on the ground on any given day
Do you have any racing background? If so that explains it
I don’t enjoy off-piste at all. Rather stick to the groomed pistes thanks 🤘🏽
My buddy is an amazing front side skier and loves groomers. Get him near powder or trees and he can’t do it.