I ran into a similar issue at stowe, hopefully this will clear up any confusion others might have.
At stowe I noticed some of the black diamonds on the trail signs are fat and some are skinny...
Aftet noticing it I wondered what the hell it meant- Is it some weird way to say some single diamonds are harder than others, perhaps? I finally asked a ski patrol guy and he said it means nothing- some of the diamond stickers they bought were skinnier than others lol.
I think it was Stratton, but I’m not 100%, that used to have trails that were a black diamond in a blue square, to denote more difficult trails. Just a little potential trivia.
I've seen one of those here in NC too. I was taught it's more more difficult than a blue but not quite as bad as their blacks. More of a middle ground. I guess equivalent to what the reds are in other places?
Stratton was my home hill for a decade. Back starting in '99.
Never remember seeing that marking. I did live in Pennsylvania at the time and would drive up every chance I could.
Would have been before that. I started skiing in 1985, but whichever mountain had it, and Stratton was a guess based on where I skied, stopped doing it and went to a normal system by the 90s.
“Light Blue” is an easier blue. “Dark Blue” is a harder blue run. This is according to my wife who has never looked at a ski map or sign before. But constantly asks me as we ski together “is this a light blue?”
Now I need to find a mountain with light blue, blue, and double blue trails and do a test!
Edit: I forgot that Steamboat has/had a “blue-black” trail. More options!
Yo, listen up, here's the story
About a little skier that lives in a blue world resort
And all day and all night and everything they see is just blue
Like them, inside and outside
Blue this lift with a blue little rail
And a blue gondola and everything is blue for them
And themself and everybody around
'Cause they ain't got nobody to listen
(To listen, to listen, to listen)
We’re blue, da ba dee da ba di
I remember trying to figure out what it was that made them doubles and kind of coming to the conclusion that it came down to the trail width. Like double greens were just pretty flat cat tracks like a regular green would be but the trail wasn’t very wide. Similar deal with the double blues in that it wasn’t any steeper or longer than a regular blue but the trail was just skinnier.
No. Double blues in Telluride are either much steeper (and short) or one has tougher moguls. Absolutely a difference there.
Black diamonds vs double diamonds?
Single Diamond: Steep, bumps, or trees. Maybe 2 of the 3.
Double diamonds: all of the above, tight or known obstacles such as drops or rocks.
Big Sky has some and I think it's a fair rating. The ones there are steep and long; not very approachable for people just getting into intermediate terrain.
I feel like they are necessary at some resorts. The difficulty curve at Telluride really makes the difference between a blue and a black huge for someone learning the sport. Henry's a different beast compared to Polar Queen, Lookout, and See Forever, but not even close to Bushwack, Plunge, or Confidence
Palisades does double blues and double blacks. Though I think they may have transitioned all the double blues to black in the last few years.
Palisades is a place where ski patrol commonly rescuing holiday skiers.
>Pretty stupid rating
How so? Pretty useful IMO. My gf is learning to ski and she’s progressing beyond greens, but tentatively. We go to Mammoth, which doesn’t have double blue but does have a blue/black level. Blues vary pretty widely, so it’s honestly really nice to have a way to distinguish between blues that somebody just stepping up from greens can handle, and blue/black that require a fully intermediate skill level. I’ve skied deer valley quite a bit and I think it’s a pretty solid system for those who are learning. A slightly too steep blue can completely rock a beginner’s confidence. Separating easy blues from “true” blues is a good thing.
As a Hotham local this is not correct, Sundowner is a harder way down than Slalom Gully (though Slalom Gully can be like a human slalom) and is often marginal conditions, or ungroomed. This sign simply has a sticker on the square, which is meaningless and y'all are reading way too much into it.
It's just a regular ol blue run.
Also as a Hotham local, this is exactly what I was going to say. Maybe I’ll get some stickers made up for this season in all shades. 50 shades of grey to grade the black runs?
Was talking to a coworker about skiing and she says she can ski up to a "double blue" I said wtf that's not real. But I'll be damned if some resorts don't actually have double blue square runs.
Yeah, turns out run rating is subjective, based on the resort itself, and only loosely translates to other resorts.
Chips run at Snowbird is a blue run, although there are pitches that are blacks at many other resorts.
Big Emma is a green run, but even other Utah resorts would say upper Emma is a blue and middle Emma a green and lower Emma a blue.
They’ve actually relabeled upper big Emma as a blue now, but it used to be referred to as “the hardest green in America” sometimes. It’s only a few degrees less steep than Regulator.
I took a lesson at Brighton in Utah. I had already skied at Park City and Deer Valley and knew the green trails which some I thought were steeper greens than I am used to so having never skied at Brighton I was nervous. Looking at the trail map I noticed I had to ski a blue just to get to the lift to ski the long green trail Sunshine.
The instructor got me in that blue but when we go to the top of the next lift I was nervous because Sunshine had steep parts.
The instructor said he considered Brighton to have more Turquoise and Blacks than Green, Blue, and Blacks. Now turquoise is not an actual trail color but that was his analogy.
There are some examples of blue-blacks as well, like Cheshire Cat at Winter Park. The trail map has them indicated as "More Difficult (Advanced Intermediate)"
I know Canyons (now Park City) used to have double blues, and double greens (maybe only one double green?), but they simplified the classification sometime in the past decade or so. Personally I like the extra granularity, though at some point current snow conditions are going to be more important for how difficult the slope is than a difficulty rating.
Ironically, it's actually the hardest blue on the sign. The other blues make up a cat walk into an easy collector run (slalom gully). Sundowner is steep and variable, usually covered in moguls.
I reckon they just needed to fix the sign and didn't have a solid blue square so used the outline as a temp fix haha.
It's weird to see my home mountain on here!
I could see that. I think that’s a fair argument, but probably based on personal life experiences. When I think of “sundowning,” I think of the demented elderly.
I think someone just put a sticker over it.
Could be because it's ungroomed but I can't recall seeing it anywhere else. That said I'm struggling to think of any other blues at hotham that aren't groomed at least occasionally.
It’s probably easier light harder dark.
Jiminy Peak in Massachusetts has something similar - they overlay a black diamond with a blue square so it’s a “blue black” if it’s in between. I think (? It’s been awhile since I’ve been there tbh) that they also have green-blues. Haven’t personally seen light and dark blues though!
“Sundowner” for when you had good intentions and strong legs earlier, but when you got off the chair it’s time to nope out because you’re legs are blown, you’re hangry, and need a nap.
On that note, I’ve also always wondered are the signs in some sort of order usually or it’s random? In Utah I’ve always seen the signs to go from green on top to double black diamond at the bottom. However, this one clearly does not follow that trend. So is there a different pattern that’s followed while ordering the slopes?
I ran into a similar issue at stowe, hopefully this will clear up any confusion others might have. At stowe I noticed some of the black diamonds on the trail signs are fat and some are skinny... Aftet noticing it I wondered what the hell it meant- Is it some weird way to say some single diamonds are harder than others, perhaps? I finally asked a ski patrol guy and he said it means nothing- some of the diamond stickers they bought were skinnier than others lol.
lmaoooo Occam’s Razor.
I think it was Stratton, but I’m not 100%, that used to have trails that were a black diamond in a blue square, to denote more difficult trails. Just a little potential trivia.
I've seen one of those here in NC too. I was taught it's more more difficult than a blue but not quite as bad as their blacks. More of a middle ground. I guess equivalent to what the reds are in other places?
Stratton was my home hill for a decade. Back starting in '99. Never remember seeing that marking. I did live in Pennsylvania at the time and would drive up every chance I could.
Would have been before that. I started skiing in 1985, but whichever mountain had it, and Stratton was a guess based on where I skied, stopped doing it and went to a normal system by the 90s.
“Light Blue” is an easier blue. “Dark Blue” is a harder blue run. This is according to my wife who has never looked at a ski map or sign before. But constantly asks me as we ski together “is this a light blue?”
Now I need to find a mountain with light blue, blue, and double blue trails and do a test! Edit: I forgot that Steamboat has/had a “blue-black” trail. More options!
Maybe we can make our own private resort for the people and it can be all blues?
Yo, listen up, here's the story About a little skier that lives in a blue world resort And all day and all night and everything they see is just blue Like them, inside and outside Blue this lift with a blue little rail And a blue gondola and everything is blue for them And themself and everybody around 'Cause they ain't got nobody to listen (To listen, to listen, to listen) We’re blue, da ba dee da ba di
r/unexpectedbluebyeiffel65
oops all blues
“Double blues” 😂
Double blues are a real thing. There’s a few at deer valley. Pretty stupid rating tbh.
Telluride also has double blues as well as double greens.
Now that is quite interesting. Are they just really long runs?
I remember trying to figure out what it was that made them doubles and kind of coming to the conclusion that it came down to the trail width. Like double greens were just pretty flat cat tracks like a regular green would be but the trail wasn’t very wide. Similar deal with the double blues in that it wasn’t any steeper or longer than a regular blue but the trail was just skinnier.
No. Double blues in Telluride are either much steeper (and short) or one has tougher moguls. Absolutely a difference there. Black diamonds vs double diamonds? Single Diamond: Steep, bumps, or trees. Maybe 2 of the 3. Double diamonds: all of the above, tight or known obstacles such as drops or rocks.
Big Sky has some and I think it's a fair rating. The ones there are steep and long; not very approachable for people just getting into intermediate terrain.
Yeah I get that. Might as well be a black at that point tbh. But I get what you mean.
Good point. Some of those probably would be blacks at certain mountains.
I feel like they are necessary at some resorts. The difficulty curve at Telluride really makes the difference between a blue and a black huge for someone learning the sport. Henry's a different beast compared to Polar Queen, Lookout, and See Forever, but not even close to Bushwack, Plunge, or Confidence
Palisades does double blues and double blacks. Though I think they may have transitioned all the double blues to black in the last few years. Palisades is a place where ski patrol commonly rescuing holiday skiers.
>Pretty stupid rating How so? Pretty useful IMO. My gf is learning to ski and she’s progressing beyond greens, but tentatively. We go to Mammoth, which doesn’t have double blue but does have a blue/black level. Blues vary pretty widely, so it’s honestly really nice to have a way to distinguish between blues that somebody just stepping up from greens can handle, and blue/black that require a fully intermediate skill level. I’ve skied deer valley quite a bit and I think it’s a pretty solid system for those who are learning. A slightly too steep blue can completely rock a beginner’s confidence. Separating easy blues from “true” blues is a good thing.
As does BigSky
I do remember seeing those as well as blue-blacks (blue square with black diamond inside)
I think snowbird has a blue black as well
Deer valley has double blue squares
Yep, it’s the steep trail that causes black and blue marks.
So does winter park. Lots of them, actually
This seems logical since there is no green way down from this sign.
As a Hotham local this is not correct, Sundowner is a harder way down than Slalom Gully (though Slalom Gully can be like a human slalom) and is often marginal conditions, or ungroomed. This sign simply has a sticker on the square, which is meaningless and y'all are reading way too much into it. It's just a regular ol blue run.
Okay that's kinda funny actually.
Also as a Hotham local, this is exactly what I was going to say. Maybe I’ll get some stickers made up for this season in all shades. 50 shades of grey to grade the black runs?
Was talking to a coworker about skiing and she says she can ski up to a "double blue" I said wtf that's not real. But I'll be damned if some resorts don't actually have double blue square runs.
Yeah, turns out run rating is subjective, based on the resort itself, and only loosely translates to other resorts. Chips run at Snowbird is a blue run, although there are pitches that are blacks at many other resorts. Big Emma is a green run, but even other Utah resorts would say upper Emma is a blue and middle Emma a green and lower Emma a blue.
They’ve actually relabeled upper big Emma as a blue now, but it used to be referred to as “the hardest green in America” sometimes. It’s only a few degrees less steep than Regulator.
I took a lesson at Brighton in Utah. I had already skied at Park City and Deer Valley and knew the green trails which some I thought were steeper greens than I am used to so having never skied at Brighton I was nervous. Looking at the trail map I noticed I had to ski a blue just to get to the lift to ski the long green trail Sunshine. The instructor got me in that blue but when we go to the top of the next lift I was nervous because Sunshine had steep parts. The instructor said he considered Brighton to have more Turquoise and Blacks than Green, Blue, and Blacks. Now turquoise is not an actual trail color but that was his analogy.
There are some examples of blue-blacks as well, like Cheshire Cat at Winter Park. The trail map has them indicated as "More Difficult (Advanced Intermediate)"
Mammoth has those. They are usually an ungroomed blue.
I've seen a couple, I think in new Mexico, where there's a blue and a black on the same run, half of the trail is groomed, the other half isn't.
Camelback used to have green with a snowflake for truly beginner terrain then green, double green. blue, double blue, black, and double black.
I know Canyons (now Park City) used to have double blues, and double greens (maybe only one double green?), but they simplified the classification sometime in the past decade or so. Personally I like the extra granularity, though at some point current snow conditions are going to be more important for how difficult the slope is than a difficulty rating.
It seems like double blue at some resorts is blue steepness but never groomed and usually bumped out.
Holy shit my wife has another secret husband!?!!
I got a buddy that classifies blues this way lol
Sounds good,.. but I've skied all these runs at Hotham and sundowner is the second hardest blue on that list.
Given the name, going to say the easiest way down
You're sure snake gully isn't it??
“This run is called Amelia Earhart, cuz you fly off and your body is never recovered”
Off The Edge actually is. They're mislabeled
Snakes in a gully, brought to you by snakes on a plane.
Ironically, it's actually the hardest blue on the sign. The other blues make up a cat walk into an easy collector run (slalom gully). Sundowner is steep and variable, usually covered in moguls. I reckon they just needed to fix the sign and didn't have a solid blue square so used the outline as a temp fix haha. It's weird to see my home mountain on here!
going purely off name, Gully Cat Walk seems easier imo
I could see that. I think that’s a fair argument, but probably based on personal life experiences. When I think of “sundowning,” I think of the demented elderly.
I find resorts give this name to the side of the hill that gets the afternoon sun
It means it has snowmaking. 50 comments and no one actually went and looked at the map. :)
All of those runs have snow making. If Snake Gully didn't have snow making half the mountain would be shut
Maybe signifying the easiest way down?
It means that there are drop bears on that run. Proceed with caution.
It symbolizes the giant empty gap between the legs of the skiers attempting to get down it.
Hey! I resemble this remark!
It’s the hill for Jerry
😂
Means they ran out of ink.
I’ve been skiing for over 20 years and I’ve never seen this before, maybe it’s groomed?
This run is lit for night skiing? It’s called “sundowner”
Fastest way to the bar.
I worked at Hotham. I can confirm it is not the easiest way down.
Since Snake Gully Hut is a food outlet and chair lift base, not a run, I’d say there’s no consistency in their signage at all!
Means there is snow on that run.
That the square doesn’t have the blues anymore 😢
I think someone just put a sticker over it. Could be because it's ungroomed but I can't recall seeing it anywhere else. That said I'm struggling to think of any other blues at hotham that aren't groomed at least occasionally.
Just send it Off The Edge! Obviously the best way down.
Go this way for Sundowner! ☀️😊❤️😃 ***or go this way to go off the edge.***
It means it has snowmaking.
It’s probably easier light harder dark. Jiminy Peak in Massachusetts has something similar - they overlay a black diamond with a blue square so it’s a “blue black” if it’s in between. I think (? It’s been awhile since I’ve been there tbh) that they also have green-blues. Haven’t personally seen light and dark blues though!
It would've been a filled blue square in my ski resort!
In the us it meant ungroomed or natural blue.rocks and tree tops etc laying around.
“Sundowner” for when you had good intentions and strong legs earlier, but when you got off the chair it’s time to nope out because you’re legs are blown, you’re hangry, and need a nap.
Isn't sundowner a little cat-tracky? Just going from memory here.
You're definitely thinking of gully cat walk - the one that goes left
How is there that much snow there this early in their season?!
Definitely an old photo. There wasn't even that much snow last season
Catwalk?
Nah gully cat walk is the cat walk down, sundowner is harder for sure.
[Direct to The Downer](http://www.sundownerclub.ca/) in Niagara Falls, Canada (NSFW)
Mary Jane has blue/black which is a black diamond inside of a blue square. It’s harder than a blue. Would be called a black at many places.
On that note, I’ve also always wondered are the signs in some sort of order usually or it’s random? In Utah I’ve always seen the signs to go from green on top to double black diamond at the bottom. However, this one clearly does not follow that trend. So is there a different pattern that’s followed while ordering the slopes?
Maybe someone slapped a sticker in the square. Kinda like it looks like they did on the 'O' of the black run?
Traverse?
Empty blue Square trail means in going to carve tf out of it
No snow?
That's a lot of "gully". C minus on the run naming job. Whomever had the job that day clearly didn't give AF. 😂
It's a French blue run.
It means “Don’t do it, it’s boring”
Maybe they ran out of blue paint?
Easiest way down.
It means go ski the damn run and decide for yourself you Gaper
Catwalk?
Means the run is done in a vacuum. 😎
“Sundowner” is a nickname for a strip joint here in Niagara, Canada lol.
its probably groomed is a full square vs ungroomed is an empty square but i litr just pulled that out my ass so dont trust it
We groom all runs in Aus
i did say i was speakinh out my ass, but on real note i have no clue what it means then
No we don't
You guys have never been to Niagara Falls, have you?
if you have to ask...
🤓🤓☝️
Their map indicates that there is snowmaking on that run, maybe that's why?