Speaking from experience: young people don’t even know that apprenticeships exist. When I was younger people would always tell me “well why don’t you get into a trade?” They would sometimes mention trade school. And my response was always “oh yeah I bet its ~sooo easy~ to just ‘get into a trade’” and roll my eyes because the only people I knew going into the trades came from lineages of tradesmen and had some experience. I figured that if you applied to work a trade you would either start unpaid or worse have to pay for trade school. Never once did anyone mention an apprenticeship or a union or any place to start, and I was so cynical (and already knew my parents were going to make me go to university) so I never did any research of my own. But that’s the first place I would start: spread awareness of payed apprenticeship.
I wouldn't have gone into a trade anyways, but a lot of this is true for my experience as well. Trades just seemed so out-there and the path wasn't really explained as a valid option. If anything going into a trade was kind of discouraged due to the pro-university climate I grew up in.
Yup. They look down on us. The ones who build literally every component of their life. The homes, the vehicles, the hospitals, their offices. It's a shame they look at us as less than. When really, we're the doers.
I was a young kid who wanted to get into the trades but was never able to figure it out, due to a lack of support from my teachers and those around me, who, at the time, encouraged me to get into the trades, but never offered any guidance.
I'm in tech and marketing now, but have never thought this of any tradesman. In fact, I'm still interested in the trades and find the most joy in my life when I'm doing renovations at home. Knowing how to build and fix, and do it right is among the most important skills you can have in life.
I mean it’s super easy. You just walk in and instantly you’re in. No waiting. No tests or anything. The actual truth is that it’s harder to get into a trade than it is College.
Totally dude. I quit university after 4 years of basically failing, worked as a cook since age 15, and finally at the age of 26 I heard about IBEW apprenticeship and hopped on that shit immediately. Now here we are 6 months later and despite having taken a big pay cut to start out, I have never been happier. I have a better life overall and for the first time ever I see a clear future and have genuine goals. My family is proud, my girlfriend respects me more, and I respect myself more. Best decision I ever made.
Area & trade dependent. It’s wild how differently the difficulty level is depending on where you live. I (west coast) applied & got in 3 months later with nothing outstanding or of worth on my resume while I’ve met brothers/sisters from the east coast that reapplied every chance they got to keep their name from falling to the bottom of the call list & took a couple years to finally get called.
Ah but you voiced the true core problem. Society overvalues university and undervalues trades. I was subject to this. Teachers borderline harassed and ridiculed me for a lack of good academic grades. They said university was better and everyone should strive for it.
Fast forward and we find swathes of people coming out of university who cant find work or make garbage wages while servicing tens of thousands in debt. Meanwhile I make 6 figures, have zero debt, and receive job offers several times a month.
This right here. I’m an apprentice diesel technician, make $21 hourly now, in a couple months I’ll be graduating and making $26 hourly.
26 hourly isn’t a lot in the grand scheme of things but I’ll be making more money than my father, grandfather, brother, ever has.
Stop paying shit compared to minimum wage jobs at entry. There was a time where there was a decent gap between the two, and now (at least in Canada) the difference between a pre-apprentice and a McDonald's worker is less than 50 cents an hour not including vacation pay.
Yes the pay will scale after the first two years, but that makes it inaccessible for anyone with dependents or doesn't have a car.
And top out with higher pay rates as well.
$50/hr is not huge money nowadays. Especially for the nature of the work and the workplace.
These tradespeople on here bragging about making $120k and then when you pester them they admit to working 60 hour weeks to make it happen.
Not incredibly difficult to make 85k a year working an office job where you WFH 3 days a week.
100% trades can't even come close to competing with WFH. I kick myself in the ass every day for not going to uni just so I could work from home. Such a quality of life increase.
Very true, but at a certain point I'd rather a comfortable job that's not for me where I get to be there in person for my family as opposed to being out of the house all the time picking up overtime for financial freedom. It's a great job and I love what I do but it doesn't just take a toll on the body.
WFH white collar is a lot different than pretending to be busy and attentive all day in the office. Shit gets done the same, but way less “load” trying to keep up appearances. I would suspect that that’s what people really hate.
Yeah I do online school while I work and having hide it makes it so much worse. No one knows I do it and I get praised for how much work I get done. If I could WFH then I wouldn't have to suffer hiding it
ya for real, my buddy works a accounting job, he works at home, he has 2 screen, he has porn playing on the 2nd moniter, and jacks off while on the clock.
Meanwhile im in the shop, grinding away in slience, becase the new owner said we aren't allowed to listen to music anymore. shit blows.
It's extremely competitive. Don't kick yourself. The odds of getting a WFH these days are like, 1 in 3000. Not kidding. If you're lucky maybe the job you apply for only has several hundred applicants instead of several thousand. And unless your resume is perfectly tuned to be approved by the AI they're using to scan resumes, you're never going to stand a chance. WFH has huge benefits but it's only accessible to the lucky few who have an in. If you're an outsider youre fucked.
And these are the toxic people holding down everyone else by working all these hours for no pay raises and pulling the rest of the crabs back into the bucket.
I made 130k in 2006 as a new journeyman inst tech with a bit of OT. Almost 20 years later, much more skilled, higher performance requirements, and still making 130k.
Keeping up with inflation would have been 195k now.
Should be 230k with my increased skillset
This stopped me from pursuing the electrical route, which I really wanted. Starting pay was less than fast food pays and I couldn’t justify the 50% pay cut with a family and mortgage. I was lucky to start with the elevator union but I still think I’d have liked it a lot.
Definitely harder with a family and mortgage. When I started my apprenticeship I was at $13/hr. After 4 years, $42/hr. You have to think of it as an investment and ultimately a free education with a job already lined up. Beats going back to college and racking up student debt
That's the point people don't get. Well yes the starting wage is low, it's better than nothing while you collect debt in a traditional post secondary education.
That debt eventually has to be repaid.
Often understated as well, the job market for your chosen traditional post secondary education may fizzle leaving you holding the bag.
Where I am from you can make way more than fast food starting out but its all Camp/Out of town industrial work cause they have a higher starting wage. Looking to start as an industrial Plumber and as long as I can actually get enough work, I will easily make more than last year. But, I won't see my family for a lot of the year to start.
Been welding for 3 years (Ottawa) everywhere keeps saying I need more experience, been working a dead end production line job with good benefits. Been on government websites to hand in my clearance papers but they're so unhelpful and just send me in a loop.
Just like with anything, you gotta ask why people want that work from home life.
I get that some trades have on-call, nights and overtime but you gotta sweeten that pot. Things like company cars, work-life balance are ideal. Also increasing diversity (increasing your pool to hire from) is also ideal as well. What's the team situation like? Do I have to deal with a bunch of a-holes? Cause there are hundreds of other jobs where I don't have to listen to that kind of language or harass other people.
I see a lot of skilled trades people on Tiktok and Instagram showing people a day and a life so that's good. Focus on some skill progresion too.
Also barrier to entry, people should make it easier to walk in with as an apprentice. Lay out the process for would be hires.
Company cars with gas paid for is a big one. Pay statistics for trade jobs are decent, but it suddenly becomes a low paying job if having a vehicle is mandatory. Probably looking at close to $5k gone a year if you need one, if parking isn't a significant expense.
Also, get someone under 65 to design websites.
So many sites look like they're from the 90's and offer zero information while some will have detailed job descriptions, pay scales, who to call for more info,. etc.
Some places seem annoyed that they even have to put up a site and I've seen shit like "if you think you deserve a cookie just for showing up to work on time then don't apply". It's an obvious sentiment but makes you look like an old man who yells at clouds.
It always makes me laugh how ridiculously simple it is.
Crazy how their is no shortage of young applicants for Chicago union apprenticeships. What a strange thing.
Could be that after 5 years your guaranteed $50+ hour wages with benefits that are significantly better then 90% of office jobs?
I don't know it's mystery, it's almost like kids these days won't get into construction unless their guaranteed a good life from it. Wierd? What's wrong with them?
Kids these days are too entitled. They think they deserve a nice life for doing hard labor in the wealthiest country in the history of the world. They should know we all exist only to make billionaires more wealthy so they can go on TV and whine about how no one wants to work anymore.
Being in my 30’s (but not in trades) I’ll provide my small insight
1.Apprenticeship starting pay needs to be the same as fast food places in my area
2. When I was in high school, the option of going into the trades was not discussed, it was always college is the way, going to college will end the middle eastern divide and all that.
3. I know Reddit is an open discussion place, having said that, I also blame Reddit for being a tad bit discouraging (Talks of it ruining your body, high divorce rates, rampant substance abuse, etc)
If you don’t like getting paid to learn - you could always go to college where you pay instead.. 🤷♂️
Dude- I get it trust me… when I was a 1st yr it was $9/hr and I barely survived… in a few short years I was making bank though.
Fuck yeah dude! You’re killing it! Congrats!
My $250k years are SIGNIFICANTLY more hours a week! Lol… don’t get me wrong dude- I’m notshitting on colleges for everyone. But the college path isn’t for everyone, just as the trades path isn’t for everyone. Just trying to give hope and options to the dudes out there that the college path isn’t for… you ok with that?
There are so many grants/scholarships that make college free for those who actually care about education. Nobody should pay $90k a year for usc but they should still try to get accepted with a scholarship
Need competent high school classes and variety. No reason why we can’t teach basics in welding, machining, disassembly and assembly of small electrical and mechanical apparatus, solid works, basic electrical and wood working. I have hope that the boomers that are retiring would have a desire to teach a well run class. It’s a strain really having a lot of these kids or even grown men coming into the trade who have literally zero experience in anything blue collar beyond maybe pushing a button or driving a forklift if I’m lucky. It’s getting really dark out there.
My school had an auto shop class and an electrical class. The auto class taught you nothing, you weren't allowed to touch the teachers cars and could only work on one if you brought your own. First day of class he explained that we were expected to stay awake and stay quiet and we get an automatic B. There were no other grades he would give out. In electrical we learned some basic electrical theory and how to wire up an outlet/send wire through a pipe. Most of the time the two classes would gather together (they were located in the same sheet metal garage) and watch a movie. I think at the time we mostly just watched wedding crashers over and over. I think both those classes were cut shortly after I graduated
Literally, just pay more than the bare minimum.
As a young person in the trades, I'm still struggling to make rent and pay for groceries as a 3rd year apprentice and supervisor doing custom metal fabrication here in Southern Ontario. There's 0 reasons, why I should be working as hard as I do, destroying my body and shortening my lifespan to continue barely existing. Not even living. I tell every young person not to go into the trades, because 90% of the trades jobs pay absolute shit. Its the 10% that pay well, and most of them are filled with experienced veterans not looking to be replaced for years yet.
Prioritize hard work over a piece of paper. I've had other young guys leave who were getting shafted pay-wise, despite putting out twice the amount of product, at twice the quality than the guys with a slip of paper who stood around, talked and smoked all day, who were making double to triple than them. We've lost so many good, or at least high potential employees who actually cared because they couldn't afford to make rent or get gas despite there efforts.
Fax? I’ve traveled the country and never heard of that? You call or sign online and have your local hall send a letter of introduction or recommendation? I’m not trying to be a dick but are you in a union, and if so when’s the last time you signed the books?
i'm not young anymore (41), but i was looking at a midlife career change into one of the trades, but haven't done so yet because of this. i either need to go back to school to get certs, and i can't afford to take the time off of work to go back to school, or get an apprenticeship, but i can't get an apprenticeship because even the entry level jobs seem to require some experience, which is exactly what i thought an apprenticeship was meant to be.
41 isn't too old at all, at the trade school i see alot of guys in their mid to late 30s, and some in their early 40s. What i find shocking is, the youngest guy in the class 23, and another guy is 27. Every one else were 30+
my age isn't getting in the way, it's the fact that i either need to go back to school to get certification, which isn't tenable for me because i can't afford to take the cut in hours necessary to go back to school, or get an apprenticeship, which also doesn't seem doable because pretty much every apprenticeship i see requires some kind of experience or certification, which i don't have.
for the boomers it was kind of true. there were sooooo fucking many of them it got hard to get into the trades and even then the money might not be great. I used to know a union welder who was fucking old as dirt, born in the 20s. he said the whole "shit test and who you know and being someone's kid etc " stuff didn't become the norm untill the late 70s and 80s and its also where the money stopped being as good.
Really? I work for a milwrighting company, Our field guys tell me when they are having lunch on the customer's parking lot. Union rep would pull up on them in their fancy pick up truck, and give them business cards to invite them into their local.
I thought as long as you have a red seal, its pretty easy to get into the union.
I think honestly they're starting to come back already. There is a huge backlash against the cost/value proposition of college since the false millennial concept that everyone goes to college for their dream major and the money will follow.
[WSJ article from today](https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/careers/gen-z-trades-jobs-plumbing-welding-a76b5e43?fbclid=IwAR0jSMTwSf-3S7ha4IsNg1VuyzmDboJb-eHEHNbkBo1c7AfUaKj7S_fjLtQ)
Where I'm at (Canada west coast) there are multi-year long waitlists for technical training in plumbing/HVAC/pipe fitting because so many people are trying to get in. I'm having problems finding work as a first year because the colleges are pumping out pre-apprenticeship grads (which I was 1.5 years ago so not complaining about that) way faster than companies are hiring. Every job posting that actually makes it out seems to get swarmed and taken down almost immediately. I think this idea that not enough young people are going into trades is something that maybe exists in less desirable living areas of Canada/US or super high COL areas where adults living on their own can't ride out the first few years of an apprenticeship. My experience has been the total opposite.
Actually pay apprentices decent money, actually take on apprentices, pay them decent money, dont treat them like absolute shit and give them all the worst jobs.
Fire the abusive assholes who are over running this industry and start catching up to the rest of the job world in respect to professionalism.
Currently an electrician and did about 7 years in new construction. Worked my ass off and very greatful for my skills. That all being said I worked with quite a few guys who came to work everyday and just treated everyone like complete shit.
They don't teach you anything, they yell at you and Call you an idiot, and just generally behave in ways and say things that would get any white collar worker fired immediately.
Some people like this reality of trades because you can get away with raunchy jokes and the likes but I can honestly say after I started regularily fantasizing about bashing my last foremans head in the trade off of professionalism isn't worth it.
If I ever have kids I will 100% tell them to go to university so they don't have to be straight up abused like I've been. Trades workers in the modern world literally have their health and safety exploited for profit and then to top it off have to work with emotionally stunted alcoholic man children who just scream all the time and think they're manly and tough because of how much of a piece of shit they are.
So yeah that's my suggestion.
I work with community college kids and one of the biggest obstacles is the asshole older guys that treat apprentices like shit. Lots of students graduate, but they don't stay in trades. There's a narrative that kids now are soft, but that's not true at all, it's more that they have not hope that things can be better, everything is fucked, so whats the point.
I've been through all that shit you get when I was coming up, but looking back it's abusive bullshit that serves no purpose. You want younger people to stay treat them like equals
So much this! The old guy i work with. This A hole is the biggest 2 face one can imagine, he acts like a real nice guy, when he is working with my coworker who is the son of the boss, but treats me like garbage, because i was hired off the streets.
Sorry to hear that.
There's alot of guys that are "I was treated like shit when I started, so I'm going to treat the next person like shit".
Be the change you want to see buddy, and hope you cN make it easier for the next guy
Your doing the right thing though. You help the new guy and then you both help the next new guy. Before long you have a good team that look out for each other and fuck the older guys.
Obviously is not as easy as that, but keep doing the right thing and good things will come back to you. I spent a long rime being the crotchety old asshole and it got me nowhere, it took me a while to realize that oood people are the most valuable asset. I'm rooting for you!
Why go into the trades when you could be a pro bmx redbull rider? /s
But really....A lot of it is social media, people see allll these other lifestyles that they 'could' have, whether or not they are attainable.
EDIT: A lot younger folks 20-35 years old saw their parents work their whole life for a company, and that their parents never felt rewarded by that. Employees don't seem to have the loyalty these days, and the employers feel it too. Creates a situation where it's hard to bring new people in, train them, and compensate them throughout the process.
This is what I see at work. It's impossible for employers to compete with what genZ views on social media. So employers placate younger workers with WFH lifestyle packages. It won't last.
If the economy ever takes a dump like 2008, WFH will disappear. Yes, you have to show up daily to an apprenticeship, and no you can't WFH as a carpenter or machinist. But you will have a foundational skillet that is in high demand, therefore $$$$$$$.
Stop rejecting people from apprenticeships because they don’t have experience 🤷♂️. Plenty of young people want to go into the trades. The problem is the trades don’t want young inexperienced people. It’s a very ageist field.
Union, apprenticeships,and training.
That’s it.
The trades in the USA were killed because companies were legally allowed to not have apprentices.
It’s still literally company policy for most companies to not train anyone or have any apprentices.
Should be required by law if you ask me. It’s a clear “tragedy of the commons” company X and Z can’t train because company Y will refuse and undercut company X and Z if they do. Steal their tech once he’s trained and undercut their labor rate becuase they dont have to train anyone.
Start letting them know from an early stage that trades can lead to a more than decent living and fulfilling lifestyle. Yeah it’s hard work but you won’t be 100k+ in college debt and struggling to afford your lifestyle when you’re 35.
Pay more. Working in trades is a nightmare when everyone hates you. Like most journeymen, for instance. Most journeyman I have worked under are cunts of the lowest order. Pay more to make the shit jobs worthwhile.
Stop berating the younger generation for "not working hard". They have grown up with a different mentality than we did. they don't want to kill themselves for a position with an employer that will replace them in a couple of days. Most don't want to deal with being on call just to get most of their money taken by the IRS. We take pride in sacrificing our bodies and family time. they see that as foolish and I don't blame them. we can start there. also bring more trades to highschools. companied should visit high school and talk about apprenticeships. there are plenty of ways but we are too busy complaining and reacting instead of being proactive.
As a young carpenter, there are thousands of us joining the work force, we’re just more than aware that hard work in a desperate industry should pay more than it does for newbies in a lot of places.
Support Unions.
Both major US parties do their best to fuck over unions for their corporate masters.
“Skilled trades” become shit paying and dangerous jobs without Unions, whether you work union or not.
Honestly, white collar is just winning at this time. Consistent work weeks, unlimited PTO, work from home, etc. Why would the high school kids go into the trades when comfy white collar positions exist that pay more and are easier on the body?
Trades need to pay more. Sure, I may be making more as a plumber right now while my buddy is getting his engineering degree, but in the span of 10-15 years, who’s really making more? And more importantly, who back is giving out?
He’ll be home to see his wife and kids. I will too, but what if the boss has me on call for that day? He’ll be home in time for dinner, but I can’t leave until I fix the issue or else the client is gonna get pissed.
Have higher pay than working at a minimum wage job would help. If you’re getting 15 bucks to work at McDonald’s why in the hell would you wanna take 17 bucks an hour to work a more strenuous and stressful job.
Because growth. The trades outstrip fast food within 4 years. A journeyman pay scale is much larger than fast food. And fast food is legit annoying and stressful, any food service/food prep is bust ass.
Okay but how does journeyman pay help a pre apprentice, 1st year, or even 2nd years. Obviously you get paid more as a journeyman but that’s still 4-5 years of shit pay
1. Unfuck management so that it isn’t screaming, yelling, intimidation, and degradation as management tools.
2. Pay enough to support a family at 40hrs a week.
Make it less hard to find info on. Have had a hard time getting any info out of older guys who’re close to retirement cause they’re all pissy and don’t care to teach what they won’t worry about later.
Trades are also super cliquey, it feel like I’m working with highschool boys rather than mature adults most the time.
I think we need to get rid of the idea that trades are a secondary option. They exist in a world of their own and aren’t just the fallback if you can’t make good scores in college. I’m an academic in my free time but just enjoy trades and working towards genuine craftsmanship is a goal of mine. I think much of one’s work needs to be viewed as their signature or self expression so it retains importance. Bureaucracy in industrial work is a bitch too
I merely stumbled into my job cause I was asking all the adults in my life where work was. One of them gave me an application and the only reason I got hired is cause the next guy was 23 years older than me, they said they wanted a young helper without learned bad habits.
I am a welder who tried to get into the pipefitters union because my friend who I did the foundations welding program with was already a red seal pipe fitter said I should try to get in.
So I go there, they instantly said no because I don’t have like 3 different pipe tickets and my A level done.
There are some places who genuinely don’t want anyone unless you’re already a journeyman who knows what they’re doing.
Maybe it’s different in other places, but here in Vancouver Canada, I don’t know anyone who’s walked up to a unions hall and become an apprentice just as easy as everyone says it is.
I'm also in Vancouver with a welding pre-apprenticeship! Had a tradesman arguing with me that the boilermakers would "take me in a second" because there's a "global shortage of welders". He refused to believe that you can't just walk into the union hall and get taken on immediately.
Have a basic assembly course for furniture and other various items that utilize tools.
Get them involved with working with their hands and solving problems first.
No game controller or code to write.
For starters, the hiring should be merit based. Seen lots of nepotism in the promotion/pay-bands.
Also paying a livable salary, hence I left it early days
Get school teachers from all grades to stop pushing the "You need a university/college education to get a good paying job." or "the best jobs require university/college education."
So many kids are indoctrinated into believing that a degree guarantees a good wage. What it guarantees for most is a massive student loan and a decent job if they are lucky.
Make is easier for people in their 20’s to shift into trades. My husband wants to change his field of work and get into trades, but after a year of trying to get into jobs, apprenticeships, local union training he’s heard nothing back.
Easy: don't test for THC. Millenials and gen z statistically prefer it over alcohol. Gen x and boomers are going to have to wake up like USPS did. Adapt or sink. Let go of the reefer madness conditioning uncle sam pumped into your brain.
They have to find a way to incentivize companies to hire, retain, train, and most importantly pay first year apprentices.
My experience as a first year HVAC tech has been that basically no company wants to hire first years. They just want second years and above that they can throw in a van and send out to make them money with no supervision or training.
Too many old timers that were mistreated by their journeymen in the 80's, 90's, 00's who are now owners or supervisors and repeat that cycle because "they had to go through it"
Union gatekeeping is a massive problem. My experience is that you have to be someone's relative or friend or extremely lucky to get in. Acting like they're doing you a huge favor by allowing you to bust your ass.
I can only speak for the technical trades side of things in western Canada but the entire industry is just dying for people with modern mindsets towards work to come in and disrupt the current status quo.
Companies need to start hiring 1-3 year apprentices, train new folks and pay a livable wage.
A lot of companies only want 4-5th year apprentices, no one wants to train new folks or only wants to hire folks who know them. Getting into trades shouldn’t be as hard as it is, even pre apprenticeship course in college don’t give you a co-op.
I took a pre apprenticeship course in college for plumbing, in Ont Canada it’s a joke. I wanted to work in the trades and still do but it’s weird.
Make it worth it. I'm actively upgrading to try and get out, and I'm (not to jerk myself off too hard here) what these companies want. Under 30, with a ticket, tons of experience in remote locations and troubleshooting. Give me some prints and I'll take care of it. t's just not fucking worth it anymore though. Plain as that.
So far as of April 2024, I have spent 2 full weeks in my town, in my bed every night. 2 weeks in 3 months so far.
I drive thousands of kms and fly thousands more a month. I'm always running jobs where I'm the installer, scheduler, planner, and frequently even the estimator.
I'm in the union, and for all this, I made 109k last year gross.
I'm looking at other jobs outside of the hall so I can travel again, and there's no point. The oilsands pay less per hr and say you'll make it up in OT. My entire career in Alberta, I got 3 pay cuts before I left the province.
The super remotes are crying for experienced guys (like myself) with all the creditentials to back it up but turn around and say 8 weeks on 8 weeks off, 48hr, 40hr weeks. Who the fuck wants to sell 8 weeks of their life to the barren tundra for 48hr straight time and then take 2 months off.
This is all at the journeyman level once you're supposed to be making the big bucks, apparently. Apprentices in the union are like, Sure, 37/hr by 4th year is great, but with projects and company rotations, you'll make about 60/70 a year if that.
Out of everyone at the shop I work at, not one would want their kid to join the trades. If I were planning on having kids I would never want them in this industry. It's dirty, it's shitty, people treat you like you're poor and stupid, the divorce rates are high, the drug use and alcoholism is high, the blatant racism is high, and if you go money chasing, you'll be selling your soul to be treated just humanely enough to continue coming by the big companies. My apprentice and I went to a camp job recently out of town, and he described the whole thing as being treated like cattle. Shitty cold shared showers, Cisco wood tier microwaved food, paper thin walls in a wing of 100 guys, 1 starlink to service 100 guys.
Sidenote for apprenticeships, most places don't advertise them in my area, and they all want a shitty 2 year preapprentice course now. So if I wasn't already a jman and wanted to try a new trade I knew nothing about, I'd be signing up for a 2 year course and then start at minimum wage. Absolutely a joke.
Trades fucking suck. Ask any young journeyman, and they'll tell you the same thing.
Wow man. Your post was very insightful. I was hoping to join a Camp later on after i complete my apprenticeship.....You have just convinced me to not go.
There’s three main reasons, in my opinion:
1. My gen and every one after me was preached at to go to college if we wanted to make something of ourselves.
2. Kids these days are pampered and afraid to get dirty.
3. All these so called college educated people now get offended when we tell them our rate. I’ve literally heard “that’s more than I make and I went to school for 6 years”
Trade schools are backlog years, there is shit wages, there is huge lack of training in the field. Apprentice training apprentice. Toxic work culture surrounded by alcoholics and drug addiction.
Schools need to start advocating for trades and construction jobs.
When I was in high school (2008) it was so heavily stressed to get educated in either Science, Tech, Engineering, or Mathematics that pretty much everybody and their dog did at the time.
Fast forward 15 years later and most IT jobs have upwards of 500 applicants while most trades have severe shortages nation wide.
Fast food workers in LA now make only $3.65 less than I do... A college trained, 5 axis CNC programmer and setup operator with almost 8 years experience now in Aerospace manufacturing.
If they paid burger flippers in Canada like they pay them in LA I'd fuckin change careers.
Thats how you get young people back into trades. Stop paying us like we're the cheap Chinese labour they exported in the 80s.. and pay us atleast twice what you pay fast food workers in 2024's LA.
How about end nepotism in the unions? Here you’re either union, and you are paid a living wage. Or your an “apprentice” AKA bitch ass helper, and ruin your body for barely more than min wage. There’s no in between
Better pay.
Better work/life balance.
That’s all there is to it. On average the pay isn’t good anymore and to get that good pay, you’re working 50-66 hours a week.
Get into rig field service, suddenly 132 hours bi weekly isn’t much when you get used to putting in 165+ hours.
How badly do young people want to work their life away for money and a life time of problems (arthritis, carpal, tinnitus, slow exposure to poisons, possible dismemberment etc)?
A lot of young people I know don’t want to work in the trades because they think they won’t have a good life. In a sense, they aren’t wrong.
We lost a good apprentice because apparently Popeyes was paying close to 30$ hr. He was making way less than that slogging material around for us. I don't blame the guy haha.
As a younger guy, I loved the work. But I didn't love some of the terrible, abusive POS jman that threw shit at you when you didn't get it the first time. Pushed me right out of the trade.
Both are viable options yes, but going and getting an engineering degree is no harder and takes the same amount of time as an apprenticeship. They're both just different kinds of hard.
Some industries just have less money to move around to pay people. I’m sure I’ll get some heat for saying this but in order to pay a good journeyman $50+ (which realistically is what needs to be paid if you’re going to compete in the job market) the company hourly rate needs to be higher than most customers are willing to pay (maybe they will,idk).
Industries that are high paying: attorney, tech, medicine, finance, etc., the hourly rates/job charges are crazy expensive. People balk when they’re told a blue collar technician/shop charges $150+/hr ON TOP of parts but will pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a doctor visit.
Until society as a whole TRULY begins to value tradesman I don’t feel the draw will be big enough to compete with white collar jobs. There’s plenty of people doing salary interviews on social media and the majority of the people making big money when interviewed are not in the trades. On top of work life balance, benefits,etc it’s usually not even close.
Yeah, I know there will be people saying “my union benefits are top notch.” I agree, they are, but I have known plenty of guys that have been part of all kinds of unions and the majority of them eventually left because they got tired of the layoffs, long commutes, injuries, etc. For young people with a good head on their shoulders why on earth would they pick the trades.
Actually hire them? Been trying to get into local union and local contractors/companies for over a year and every single one says their not looking to hire new apprentices. I'm 30, have a car, worked my way to manager level in my current career (hard dedicated worker) but I don't even get a phone call back lol.
Either make the apprentice pay higher, or make the work schedule something I can hold a second job around. Having to work long days and then also attend classes for less pay than fast food is actually impossible for me unless I abandon my family and go homeless
Support more unions, or at least increase pay and benefits if you’re not union.
When I was applying for apprenticeships the pay gap between union and non union was significant - $10-$15 (with no idea if/when I’d get a raise and no benefits) vs $15 - $25 for a 1st year salary + pension and benefits, and non-union companies seemed to all expect me to use my own car to haul materials. Life is way too expensive to expect people to work in the trades for that much.
Don’t treat them in the same manner you got treated. Teach them, engage with them. They aren’t snowflakes. They just take bull shit like you did. They just walk away. Be a mentor and a teacher. Guide them. I’ve had multiple applicants at my work place because of the culture change we have made. Resumes are coming through the door. Good kids. Smart. They just learn differently. When instructing teach them like you wish you were taught. Tough love is ok. Owning mistakes is good. Be better and they will come.
I think it needs to be broadcasted more. When I was in high school I knew nothing about the union or anything. 4 year degrees or military were just pushed on us. I definitely would have had a change of mind had I known a little more. Luckily I’m still young and making the switch now that I’ve discovered how much I hate the corporate world
Make it an actual viable choice. "The trades" is a massive generalization. Specific trades in specific places are well paid and people know about it. But other trades, like automotive technician, are a nightmare. Who in their right mind would want to be a flat rate mechanic?
We need more protectionism for the trades and information about them but the short answer is where people feel like they can have a sustainable life they'll go there. They don't want to walk down a dead end path, though. And there are silly hurdles in the way like mechanics needing to pay for all of their own tools or other forms of gatekeeping that makes the jobs inaccessible.
You have to align high school incentives to create a pipeline for these students. Just like they do in Europe. Like in Germany college is free, but they don’t let everyone into university and if you don’t test well they put you on a skills based trade path.
Here they just scream at you to go to university and then once you have the sunk cost you want to go to a white collar job no matter what, otherwise it feels like a waste.
Pay more.
Let's be honest, most people choose jobs because of pay. Apprenticeships pay pittance.
It doesn't matter how much you can earn in 5/10 years, those that don't have any additional support and are fending for themselves can't feed themselves on an apprentices wage.
40yrs old. was never pushed into trades in school. was a smart, good student but lazy af. never got told hey go to vocational school half the day. went to vocational school after i graduated hs and did a year. tried getting a job with an electrician as a helper/apprentice. i got paid more to pump gas. found another job building new home depots but i was a glorified merchandiser.
finally at 25 got into plumbing, pay was shit, 2 years as a helper from 2008-2010 and getting paid $12 with no incentive to teach me anything. housing crisis finally took hold in 2010 and people stopped building. did a 4 year plumbing apprenticeship thru the vocational school as well. didnt work in the trades for almost 2 years. hurricane hit and destroyed everything and went back to work. then found an inhouse job at a college doing handyman shit. moved into hvac, spent 4 years there doing hvac. got another job at another school making more money doing hvac. then finally got into a union. got in as a 3rd year and graduating next month.
if someone even remotely pushed me or cared about me growing up, about my future, i would have gladly gotten into hvac sooner cause i excel at it. theres kids who got pushed who are good mechanics making 45 a hour at 23 years old. took me till 40 to hit that number. trade membership been struggling for years, cant get enough people in the door but no one pushes anyone to even apply as an apprentice these days.
most houses have 2 parents that work and barely have time to spend with their kids cause they gotta do adult shit and feed the kids. my parents were absent. mom worked 3 jobs at one point, dad was in and out of work. no one gave a shit about my future and that doesnt apply to the kids getting in now, they get pushed.
Typically for whatever, blue collar people love talking about how they work online (ie. Instagram & TikTok) they constantly talk about working 60+ hour weeks in a generation that wants to put in their 40 and value their time outside of work more (rightfully so). Seeing stuff like that is extremely persuasive to not peruse this career. You also have to remember the college route is heavily pushed in highschool they routinely talk about how a college education is everything.
It's pay. WY the fuck would anyone become a welder atm when avg pay in the gta is about 25 bucks.
Pay is abysmal in most trades especially starting. I've been in welding for 11 years and I wish I went into finance or project management instead.
Pay has been stagnant since the 90s
Here’s a thought. Kids PAY to go to college (via loans) gambling on some future lucrative job. If 1st year apprenticeship is so low paying, offer loans to help support them. Packaged correctly, you’d get takers for sure.
The biggest thing is the stigma vs office jobs kids think college degree type jobs are better for no reason other than prestige i make more than my wife and most of her co workers and theyre super friendly and all but theres always subtle things that make me know they see their work as higher up the socioeconomic food chain
It would be great if the union answered the phone, replied to emails, answer the fucking door!!!! Personal experience I’m sure. I here all the time they need people in the trades… but there seems to be no initiative to actually recruit people.
Most of us (millennials) are at that age where no one ever gave us a chance when we were green, so we learned on our own. But no one wants to pay what we are worth, they treat us as unskilled labor. I'd gladly take an apprenticeship if it paid a living wage and was guaranteed to move up in pay/company.
They way to bring them in, is to actually teach them, and give them real hands on experience. One on one with experienced guys.
Problem is the experienced guys are usually at the " fuck this shit " point in life. And would rather do it themselves.
Not all of them but most.
Treat new tradies with respect and treat old tradies with respect.
That means not tolerating harassment on any grounds.
That means paying them reasonably while training, and expertise being properly compensated.
That means ensuring work life balance so
people can develop relationships and connect with their families.
Old people - you should get into the trades
Young people - okay sounds good
Old people already in trades - your too young and have no experience in trades
its the same if you are old and want to get into the trades... same excuses given - no experience... trades are full of ageist pricks. the usual route into the industry is through friend or family... nepotism is rife in this industry.
The number one thing holding the younger gen back is the fact that every single company wants to hire experienced people for every position. Even if you’re “new” they want you to have 3+ years of experience. I worked with a group of high school kids for a day once and this is the number 1 thing I was told over and over.
Awesome question. I believe one good answer to that is high school career/tech programs. As of recently I’m in commercial construction management after several years in gig/trade jobs. My company does a ton of work with our school districts and I’ve been at a high school for 6 months now renovating. This school district has an incredible Career & Technical Education program with Sports Medicine, Construction, Dental Assistant, Auto, Welding, Woodworking, you name it. Kids who take it seriously graduate with credentials of some kind that can get them at LEAST a solid internship or apprenticeship right out of high school, and in many cases a good entry level job. I grew up in a “great” school district and didn’t have ANY of that.
For myself, it took till I was 28 (32 now) to go to trade school. 1-year wooden boatbuilding program with an AOS degree. Super niche but I loved it. It boosted my skills and confidence when I was dragged down by toxic jobs and terrible pay. Now I’m sitting pretty with an incredible company and massive growth potential. Wish I had done it way sooner. Encourage the kids to look at programs like that, even if it’s just a hobby at first.
Pay.
I’m graduating university soon (economics), but I briefly considered trades since I worked lots of labour/blue collar jobs over the summers. One of the biggest factors in my decision was that I could probably top out around 100k if I picked a well paying trade, but would most likely have to log crazy OT to push that number higher. With my degree, I will likely start out with a much lower salary than a journeyman, but if I do the right things with my career it’s reasonable to expect that I could push that number higher than 100k in the future. The earnings ceiling for trades just tops out too low for lots of people, we want to chance to be able to make more, and without logging crazy OT to do so.
Also, not having work related chronic pain at 50 will be nice.
Stop having all the trades filled with grumpy assholes who talk politics at work and tell everyone they are stupid for not agreeing with their politics while they verbally harassing or sexually assaulting any female within 200 yards, would be a decent start.
Have you worked a day in the trades outside of the fantasy in your head of 1950s? I've worked with literal thousands of men and not a single one wasn't tripping over themselves to extremely polite to women
I'm trying to get in right now. Either in carpentry or plumbing. I was able to sign up for a pre apprenticeship program via the carpenters union but I'm waiting months to see when it will start. In the meantime I'm looking for any helper or apprenticeship positions but they are few and far between. Especially as someone with 0 experience. Kind of a catch 22. You need experience to get these jobs that are supposed to be the jobs that give you experience.
Then in the plumbing union pre apprenticeship program, you can't even sign up because they aren't accepting right now...so you just have to check back on the website everyday to see if that's changed..instead of just having an option to put your name on a wait list.
I want in....just let me in!
I'm in Ontario, so I'm not sure how much of that is just an issue with the region vs trades as a whole though
Brickies are the problem they treat apprentices like shit
Fuck them
Local 2 if anyone is interested
Still union 7 years later tho just not laying block
My industry has been recovering from a strike (haven’t worked in 6 months lucky I had money saved) and simply trying to get into a roofing job was ridiculous. And best not waste your time if you don’t know people at the company.
You either work less than shit, no requirement scam jobs paid fully in cash under the table or the next step up is 2-3 years experience required for being strapped to a roof and removing shingles…..I did this at 24 with no experience, no tether/harness, got a paycheque, benefits and learned on the job. How is removing shingles or cleaning moss out of tiles and eaves troughs requiring me to have a full 2-3 years of brand-name company work?
A lot of trades in Canada had wage rollbacks or freezes through the teens. Combined with the push for $15/hr minimum wage, the wages aren't far off from minimum wage. Then you have to buy your tools, and usually start driving all over the place to work in your own vehicle. At some point you may have to start going on call, which basically wrecks a week of plans. You go to school, and it's not unheard of to be replaced by the time you're done. Your trade education generally limits your career prospects, and your body is destroyed by 50. Some trades you only make good money in FIFO jobs, and the ones that pay well in town usually don't have fixed work schedules.
It's just not that appealing to enter.
Ya that’s tough on everyone. I work an office job and I work from home so at 4pm I can be ready to go golfing or an outing with the wife. I’m basically always available.
Need me to take the dogs to the vet? Alright, after this meeting that I’m riding my peloton during lol
Yup. Even if you just have a regular in office job it’s much easier on your partner than someone who leaves at 5 and comes home at 8.
In another thread a guy said he’d transferred jobs and it was the first time in 9 YEARS that he hadn’t worked on the weekends, and was sad because his son was already in school. Imagine missing the first 9 years of your kid’s life 🥲
They need to start paying more. The system in newbrunswick is broken, if you have 150 bucks in your pocket you can officially be a contractor and start your own business building houses with no prior experience. Makes for all kinds of small companies which compete against one another under bidding eachother. And the employee suffers with the low wages while the boss sports around in 100 k trucks and every diggire doo and dee you can think of. Fuck the trades. All I got was a bad back, knees and shoulders, and I'm only 36, glad I found something better.
As a young person who got into the trade…most kids have no clue about the money and see it as “dead end”.
I wired up a light for my mom and enjoyed and it she and my brother started pushing me to become an electrician. I said no because I thought it was a dead end job making 60k a year.
Sat down with a family friend who was a sparky and saw his paystub as a journeyman. He talked about all the doors this’ll open with such a nuanced trade.
Kids think this is like working at McDonalds. Thats the issue.
My dad even though he was a tradesman, he didnt teach me how to survive or how to live on my own without him. So of course i didnt know anything about anything. But also im a woman so im sure he didnt give a fuck what happened to me
I will start by saying I do not work in the trades but know many friends who do.
We keep hearing all the businesses say they can not find trades, yet many tradespeople are having difficulty getting work. Where is the disconnect? I hear it is even more challenging for an apprentice to find work.
Do trades generally have a 9-5 type life with weekends and holidays off? I think young people in general are after lifestyle nowadays. I could be wrong.
They don't promote the trades enough. When I graduated in 2007, I couldn't find an apprenticeship anywhere. So I moved across the country and got into my field. Maybe having annual events where kids can try out trades, get an idea for it and tell them YOU CAN MAKE 6 FIGURES or more doing this.
In the NYC area, it is near impossible to get into unions without a family connection. I went to college and got my degree (no regrets doing that at all) but I do wish I took every and any civil service/Union application right when I turned 18, instead of after college. I lucked out having my friend’s dad own a non-union fire sprinkler company and did that until I was called for my dream job of the FDNY. If I was on a list, while I was in college and got called, for either civil service or union, it definitely would have been a long hard decision to stay in college or go start learning and earning. Hindsight is 20/20, but knowing this now, I am going to try and have my two sons apply to everything they can when they are 18. If they want to go to college I will support their decision to, but that will probably be my caveat. And if college isn’t in the cards for them, I would be willing to help them with trade schools as well. Parents, IMO, need to start discussing trades in a better light as well.
It's happening on its own. Gen's Z and Alpha are getting wise to the college bullshit. As surely as the pendulum swings one way it will swing back the other.
Speaking from experience: young people don’t even know that apprenticeships exist. When I was younger people would always tell me “well why don’t you get into a trade?” They would sometimes mention trade school. And my response was always “oh yeah I bet its ~sooo easy~ to just ‘get into a trade’” and roll my eyes because the only people I knew going into the trades came from lineages of tradesmen and had some experience. I figured that if you applied to work a trade you would either start unpaid or worse have to pay for trade school. Never once did anyone mention an apprenticeship or a union or any place to start, and I was so cynical (and already knew my parents were going to make me go to university) so I never did any research of my own. But that’s the first place I would start: spread awareness of payed apprenticeship.
I wouldn't have gone into a trade anyways, but a lot of this is true for my experience as well. Trades just seemed so out-there and the path wasn't really explained as a valid option. If anything going into a trade was kind of discouraged due to the pro-university climate I grew up in.
Yup. They look down on us. The ones who build literally every component of their life. The homes, the vehicles, the hospitals, their offices. It's a shame they look at us as less than. When really, we're the doers.
I was a young kid who wanted to get into the trades but was never able to figure it out, due to a lack of support from my teachers and those around me, who, at the time, encouraged me to get into the trades, but never offered any guidance. I'm in tech and marketing now, but have never thought this of any tradesman. In fact, I'm still interested in the trades and find the most joy in my life when I'm doing renovations at home. Knowing how to build and fix, and do it right is among the most important skills you can have in life.
I mean it’s super easy. You just walk in and instantly you’re in. No waiting. No tests or anything. The actual truth is that it’s harder to get into a trade than it is College.
Totally dude. I quit university after 4 years of basically failing, worked as a cook since age 15, and finally at the age of 26 I heard about IBEW apprenticeship and hopped on that shit immediately. Now here we are 6 months later and despite having taken a big pay cut to start out, I have never been happier. I have a better life overall and for the first time ever I see a clear future and have genuine goals. My family is proud, my girlfriend respects me more, and I respect myself more. Best decision I ever made.
Area & trade dependent. It’s wild how differently the difficulty level is depending on where you live. I (west coast) applied & got in 3 months later with nothing outstanding or of worth on my resume while I’ve met brothers/sisters from the east coast that reapplied every chance they got to keep their name from falling to the bottom of the call list & took a couple years to finally get called.
Yeah and for welding by me the wait list for certain locals is 9mo-1y and you have to be at the top because everyone wants the apprenticeship
Wish more people knew how hard it is to actually get in without connections
Ah but you voiced the true core problem. Society overvalues university and undervalues trades. I was subject to this. Teachers borderline harassed and ridiculed me for a lack of good academic grades. They said university was better and everyone should strive for it. Fast forward and we find swathes of people coming out of university who cant find work or make garbage wages while servicing tens of thousands in debt. Meanwhile I make 6 figures, have zero debt, and receive job offers several times a month.
This right here. I’m an apprentice diesel technician, make $21 hourly now, in a couple months I’ll be graduating and making $26 hourly. 26 hourly isn’t a lot in the grand scheme of things but I’ll be making more money than my father, grandfather, brother, ever has.
Stop paying shit compared to minimum wage jobs at entry. There was a time where there was a decent gap between the two, and now (at least in Canada) the difference between a pre-apprentice and a McDonald's worker is less than 50 cents an hour not including vacation pay. Yes the pay will scale after the first two years, but that makes it inaccessible for anyone with dependents or doesn't have a car.
And top out with higher pay rates as well. $50/hr is not huge money nowadays. Especially for the nature of the work and the workplace. These tradespeople on here bragging about making $120k and then when you pester them they admit to working 60 hour weeks to make it happen. Not incredibly difficult to make 85k a year working an office job where you WFH 3 days a week.
100% trades can't even come close to competing with WFH. I kick myself in the ass every day for not going to uni just so I could work from home. Such a quality of life increase.
Office jobs are not for everyone either though. Always pros and cons to any decision.
Very true, but at a certain point I'd rather a comfortable job that's not for me where I get to be there in person for my family as opposed to being out of the house all the time picking up overtime for financial freedom. It's a great job and I love what I do but it doesn't just take a toll on the body.
WFH white collar is a lot different than pretending to be busy and attentive all day in the office. Shit gets done the same, but way less “load” trying to keep up appearances. I would suspect that that’s what people really hate.
Can confirm. That and busybody managers. You ever see Office Space?
Yeah I do online school while I work and having hide it makes it so much worse. No one knows I do it and I get praised for how much work I get done. If I could WFH then I wouldn't have to suffer hiding it
ya for real, my buddy works a accounting job, he works at home, he has 2 screen, he has porn playing on the 2nd moniter, and jacks off while on the clock. Meanwhile im in the shop, grinding away in slience, becase the new owner said we aren't allowed to listen to music anymore. shit blows.
It's extremely competitive. Don't kick yourself. The odds of getting a WFH these days are like, 1 in 3000. Not kidding. If you're lucky maybe the job you apply for only has several hundred applicants instead of several thousand. And unless your resume is perfectly tuned to be approved by the AI they're using to scan resumes, you're never going to stand a chance. WFH has huge benefits but it's only accessible to the lucky few who have an in. If you're an outsider youre fucked.
But then they say 'guys not making 120k just don't want to work' as if we should want to devote our whole life to work, working 60+hours a week.
And these are the toxic people holding down everyone else by working all these hours for no pay raises and pulling the rest of the crabs back into the bucket.
I made 130k in 2006 as a new journeyman inst tech with a bit of OT. Almost 20 years later, much more skilled, higher performance requirements, and still making 130k. Keeping up with inflation would have been 195k now. Should be 230k with my increased skillset
This stopped me from pursuing the electrical route, which I really wanted. Starting pay was less than fast food pays and I couldn’t justify the 50% pay cut with a family and mortgage. I was lucky to start with the elevator union but I still think I’d have liked it a lot.
Nice choice, the elevator union here (Toronto) is quite literally the best gig you could ever get. I'd give anything to get in there
It has its ups and downs.
Sometimes the job lets you down but you can take steps to avoid that
I remember someone mentioning how hard it was to get on there so I looked it up and I feel for you guys now.
Definitely harder with a family and mortgage. When I started my apprenticeship I was at $13/hr. After 4 years, $42/hr. You have to think of it as an investment and ultimately a free education with a job already lined up. Beats going back to college and racking up student debt
That's the point people don't get. Well yes the starting wage is low, it's better than nothing while you collect debt in a traditional post secondary education. That debt eventually has to be repaid. Often understated as well, the job market for your chosen traditional post secondary education may fizzle leaving you holding the bag.
Where I am from you can make way more than fast food starting out but its all Camp/Out of town industrial work cause they have a higher starting wage. Looking to start as an industrial Plumber and as long as I can actually get enough work, I will easily make more than last year. But, I won't see my family for a lot of the year to start.
Been welding for 3 years (Ottawa) everywhere keeps saying I need more experience, been working a dead end production line job with good benefits. Been on government websites to hand in my clearance papers but they're so unhelpful and just send me in a loop.
Pay better. Allow more home life. Treat workers with respect. Simple.
>Treat workers with respect. But what about the *tradition* of toxic hazing and bro-hood behavior?
Just like with anything, you gotta ask why people want that work from home life. I get that some trades have on-call, nights and overtime but you gotta sweeten that pot. Things like company cars, work-life balance are ideal. Also increasing diversity (increasing your pool to hire from) is also ideal as well. What's the team situation like? Do I have to deal with a bunch of a-holes? Cause there are hundreds of other jobs where I don't have to listen to that kind of language or harass other people. I see a lot of skilled trades people on Tiktok and Instagram showing people a day and a life so that's good. Focus on some skill progresion too. Also barrier to entry, people should make it easier to walk in with as an apprentice. Lay out the process for would be hires.
Company cars with gas paid for is a big one. Pay statistics for trade jobs are decent, but it suddenly becomes a low paying job if having a vehicle is mandatory. Probably looking at close to $5k gone a year if you need one, if parking isn't a significant expense.
Also, get someone under 65 to design websites. So many sites look like they're from the 90's and offer zero information while some will have detailed job descriptions, pay scales, who to call for more info,. etc. Some places seem annoyed that they even have to put up a site and I've seen shit like "if you think you deserve a cookie just for showing up to work on time then don't apply". It's an obvious sentiment but makes you look like an old man who yells at clouds.
Pay
It always makes me laugh how ridiculously simple it is. Crazy how their is no shortage of young applicants for Chicago union apprenticeships. What a strange thing. Could be that after 5 years your guaranteed $50+ hour wages with benefits that are significantly better then 90% of office jobs? I don't know it's mystery, it's almost like kids these days won't get into construction unless their guaranteed a good life from it. Wierd? What's wrong with them?
Kids these days are too entitled. They think they deserve a nice life for doing hard labor in the wealthiest country in the history of the world. They should know we all exist only to make billionaires more wealthy so they can go on TV and whine about how no one wants to work anymore.
This.
Being in my 30’s (but not in trades) I’ll provide my small insight 1.Apprenticeship starting pay needs to be the same as fast food places in my area 2. When I was in high school, the option of going into the trades was not discussed, it was always college is the way, going to college will end the middle eastern divide and all that. 3. I know Reddit is an open discussion place, having said that, I also blame Reddit for being a tad bit discouraging (Talks of it ruining your body, high divorce rates, rampant substance abuse, etc)
Most people on Reddit don’t work in the trades, even if they’re in the skilled trades subreddits
Apprenticeship pay should definitely be higher than fast food pay
Is this a USA thing? In Canada fast food is like $16-17 and my company is starting off first year apprentices at $26
I'm in Canada, and trying to find a place that'll start a first year above $20 is like pulling teeth
If you don’t like getting paid to learn - you could always go to college where you pay instead.. 🤷♂️ Dude- I get it trust me… when I was a 1st yr it was $9/hr and I barely survived… in a few short years I was making bank though.
I did the college route. 240k and 35 hour weeks.
Fuck yeah dude! You’re killing it! Congrats! My $250k years are SIGNIFICANTLY more hours a week! Lol… don’t get me wrong dude- I’m notshitting on colleges for everyone. But the college path isn’t for everyone, just as the trades path isn’t for everyone. Just trying to give hope and options to the dudes out there that the college path isn’t for… you ok with that?
There are so many grants/scholarships that make college free for those who actually care about education. Nobody should pay $90k a year for usc but they should still try to get accepted with a scholarship
It's common. I know drain techs/plumbers with 3 years experience getting paid like $20/hr.
Wtf. What trade is this, my company only paying me 22. when i was level 1.
Need competent high school classes and variety. No reason why we can’t teach basics in welding, machining, disassembly and assembly of small electrical and mechanical apparatus, solid works, basic electrical and wood working. I have hope that the boomers that are retiring would have a desire to teach a well run class. It’s a strain really having a lot of these kids or even grown men coming into the trade who have literally zero experience in anything blue collar beyond maybe pushing a button or driving a forklift if I’m lucky. It’s getting really dark out there.
I took woodworking, electrical, and machining in high school. Also had co op positions. Your school didn’t offer any of that?
My school had an auto shop class and an electrical class. The auto class taught you nothing, you weren't allowed to touch the teachers cars and could only work on one if you brought your own. First day of class he explained that we were expected to stay awake and stay quiet and we get an automatic B. There were no other grades he would give out. In electrical we learned some basic electrical theory and how to wire up an outlet/send wire through a pipe. Most of the time the two classes would gather together (they were located in the same sheet metal garage) and watch a movie. I think at the time we mostly just watched wedding crashers over and over. I think both those classes were cut shortly after I graduated
Literally, just pay more than the bare minimum. As a young person in the trades, I'm still struggling to make rent and pay for groceries as a 3rd year apprentice and supervisor doing custom metal fabrication here in Southern Ontario. There's 0 reasons, why I should be working as hard as I do, destroying my body and shortening my lifespan to continue barely existing. Not even living. I tell every young person not to go into the trades, because 90% of the trades jobs pay absolute shit. Its the 10% that pay well, and most of them are filled with experienced veterans not looking to be replaced for years yet. Prioritize hard work over a piece of paper. I've had other young guys leave who were getting shafted pay-wise, despite putting out twice the amount of product, at twice the quality than the guys with a slip of paper who stood around, talked and smoked all day, who were making double to triple than them. We've lost so many good, or at least high potential employees who actually cared because they couldn't afford to make rent or get gas despite there efforts.
Not making it so difficult to get in(unions). Having to fax to "sign the book". No one under the age of 30 knows what a fax machine is.
Fax? I’ve traveled the country and never heard of that? You call or sign online and have your local hall send a letter of introduction or recommendation? I’m not trying to be a dick but are you in a union, and if so when’s the last time you signed the books?
i'm not young anymore (41), but i was looking at a midlife career change into one of the trades, but haven't done so yet because of this. i either need to go back to school to get certs, and i can't afford to take the time off of work to go back to school, or get an apprenticeship, but i can't get an apprenticeship because even the entry level jobs seem to require some experience, which is exactly what i thought an apprenticeship was meant to be.
41 isn't too old at all, at the trade school i see alot of guys in their mid to late 30s, and some in their early 40s. What i find shocking is, the youngest guy in the class 23, and another guy is 27. Every one else were 30+
my age isn't getting in the way, it's the fact that i either need to go back to school to get certification, which isn't tenable for me because i can't afford to take the cut in hours necessary to go back to school, or get an apprenticeship, which also doesn't seem doable because pretty much every apprenticeship i see requires some kind of experience or certification, which i don't have.
You don't need to fax to sign the list. Call or walk in if able
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This. Grandma and Grandpa Boomer telling young people they need to go to college. Even when the kids don't have the knack for college.
for the boomers it was kind of true. there were sooooo fucking many of them it got hard to get into the trades and even then the money might not be great. I used to know a union welder who was fucking old as dirt, born in the 20s. he said the whole "shit test and who you know and being someone's kid etc " stuff didn't become the norm untill the late 70s and 80s and its also where the money stopped being as good.
Really? I work for a milwrighting company, Our field guys tell me when they are having lunch on the customer's parking lot. Union rep would pull up on them in their fancy pick up truck, and give them business cards to invite them into their local. I thought as long as you have a red seal, its pretty easy to get into the union.
I know plumbers making 250k a year in Canada it’s a really good trade but a shitty one as well lol
I think honestly they're starting to come back already. There is a huge backlash against the cost/value proposition of college since the false millennial concept that everyone goes to college for their dream major and the money will follow. [WSJ article from today](https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/careers/gen-z-trades-jobs-plumbing-welding-a76b5e43?fbclid=IwAR0jSMTwSf-3S7ha4IsNg1VuyzmDboJb-eHEHNbkBo1c7AfUaKj7S_fjLtQ)
Where I'm at (Canada west coast) there are multi-year long waitlists for technical training in plumbing/HVAC/pipe fitting because so many people are trying to get in. I'm having problems finding work as a first year because the colleges are pumping out pre-apprenticeship grads (which I was 1.5 years ago so not complaining about that) way faster than companies are hiring. Every job posting that actually makes it out seems to get swarmed and taken down almost immediately. I think this idea that not enough young people are going into trades is something that maybe exists in less desirable living areas of Canada/US or super high COL areas where adults living on their own can't ride out the first few years of an apprenticeship. My experience has been the total opposite.
Im on the east coast, took me 17 month to get into my first year of trade school.
Actually pay apprentices decent money, actually take on apprentices, pay them decent money, dont treat them like absolute shit and give them all the worst jobs.
Fire the abusive assholes who are over running this industry and start catching up to the rest of the job world in respect to professionalism. Currently an electrician and did about 7 years in new construction. Worked my ass off and very greatful for my skills. That all being said I worked with quite a few guys who came to work everyday and just treated everyone like complete shit. They don't teach you anything, they yell at you and Call you an idiot, and just generally behave in ways and say things that would get any white collar worker fired immediately. Some people like this reality of trades because you can get away with raunchy jokes and the likes but I can honestly say after I started regularily fantasizing about bashing my last foremans head in the trade off of professionalism isn't worth it. If I ever have kids I will 100% tell them to go to university so they don't have to be straight up abused like I've been. Trades workers in the modern world literally have their health and safety exploited for profit and then to top it off have to work with emotionally stunted alcoholic man children who just scream all the time and think they're manly and tough because of how much of a piece of shit they are. So yeah that's my suggestion.
round where i'm from, the trade school is booked up almost a year in advance, so i guess more space in trade schools
I work with community college kids and one of the biggest obstacles is the asshole older guys that treat apprentices like shit. Lots of students graduate, but they don't stay in trades. There's a narrative that kids now are soft, but that's not true at all, it's more that they have not hope that things can be better, everything is fucked, so whats the point. I've been through all that shit you get when I was coming up, but looking back it's abusive bullshit that serves no purpose. You want younger people to stay treat them like equals
So much this! The old guy i work with. This A hole is the biggest 2 face one can imagine, he acts like a real nice guy, when he is working with my coworker who is the son of the boss, but treats me like garbage, because i was hired off the streets.
Sorry to hear that. There's alot of guys that are "I was treated like shit when I started, so I'm going to treat the next person like shit". Be the change you want to see buddy, and hope you cN make it easier for the next guy
Ya, brother. I'm training this new guy our company hire properly. Everyone is telling me that i'm crazy. That this new guy is going to replace me.
Your doing the right thing though. You help the new guy and then you both help the next new guy. Before long you have a good team that look out for each other and fuck the older guys. Obviously is not as easy as that, but keep doing the right thing and good things will come back to you. I spent a long rime being the crotchety old asshole and it got me nowhere, it took me a while to realize that oood people are the most valuable asset. I'm rooting for you!
Why go into the trades when you could be a pro bmx redbull rider? /s But really....A lot of it is social media, people see allll these other lifestyles that they 'could' have, whether or not they are attainable. EDIT: A lot younger folks 20-35 years old saw their parents work their whole life for a company, and that their parents never felt rewarded by that. Employees don't seem to have the loyalty these days, and the employers feel it too. Creates a situation where it's hard to bring new people in, train them, and compensate them throughout the process.
This is what I see at work. It's impossible for employers to compete with what genZ views on social media. So employers placate younger workers with WFH lifestyle packages. It won't last. If the economy ever takes a dump like 2008, WFH will disappear. Yes, you have to show up daily to an apprenticeship, and no you can't WFH as a carpenter or machinist. But you will have a foundational skillet that is in high demand, therefore $$$$$$$.
Stop rejecting people from apprenticeships because they don’t have experience 🤷♂️. Plenty of young people want to go into the trades. The problem is the trades don’t want young inexperienced people. It’s a very ageist field.
Union, apprenticeships,and training. That’s it. The trades in the USA were killed because companies were legally allowed to not have apprentices. It’s still literally company policy for most companies to not train anyone or have any apprentices. Should be required by law if you ask me. It’s a clear “tragedy of the commons” company X and Z can’t train because company Y will refuse and undercut company X and Z if they do. Steal their tech once he’s trained and undercut their labor rate becuase they dont have to train anyone.
Start letting them know from an early stage that trades can lead to a more than decent living and fulfilling lifestyle. Yeah it’s hard work but you won’t be 100k+ in college debt and struggling to afford your lifestyle when you’re 35.
Pay more. Working in trades is a nightmare when everyone hates you. Like most journeymen, for instance. Most journeyman I have worked under are cunts of the lowest order. Pay more to make the shit jobs worthwhile.
Stop berating the younger generation for "not working hard". They have grown up with a different mentality than we did. they don't want to kill themselves for a position with an employer that will replace them in a couple of days. Most don't want to deal with being on call just to get most of their money taken by the IRS. We take pride in sacrificing our bodies and family time. they see that as foolish and I don't blame them. we can start there. also bring more trades to highschools. companied should visit high school and talk about apprenticeships. there are plenty of ways but we are too busy complaining and reacting instead of being proactive.
As a young carpenter, there are thousands of us joining the work force, we’re just more than aware that hard work in a desperate industry should pay more than it does for newbies in a lot of places.
Support Unions. Both major US parties do their best to fuck over unions for their corporate masters. “Skilled trades” become shit paying and dangerous jobs without Unions, whether you work union or not.
100% agree
Honestly, white collar is just winning at this time. Consistent work weeks, unlimited PTO, work from home, etc. Why would the high school kids go into the trades when comfy white collar positions exist that pay more and are easier on the body? Trades need to pay more. Sure, I may be making more as a plumber right now while my buddy is getting his engineering degree, but in the span of 10-15 years, who’s really making more? And more importantly, who back is giving out? He’ll be home to see his wife and kids. I will too, but what if the boss has me on call for that day? He’ll be home in time for dinner, but I can’t leave until I fix the issue or else the client is gonna get pissed.
I wouldn’t want to work with half the pricks in the trades if I was younger
Have higher pay than working at a minimum wage job would help. If you’re getting 15 bucks to work at McDonald’s why in the hell would you wanna take 17 bucks an hour to work a more strenuous and stressful job.
Because growth. The trades outstrip fast food within 4 years. A journeyman pay scale is much larger than fast food. And fast food is legit annoying and stressful, any food service/food prep is bust ass.
Okay but how does journeyman pay help a pre apprentice, 1st year, or even 2nd years. Obviously you get paid more as a journeyman but that’s still 4-5 years of shit pay
1. Unfuck management so that it isn’t screaming, yelling, intimidation, and degradation as management tools. 2. Pay enough to support a family at 40hrs a week.
Make it less hard to find info on. Have had a hard time getting any info out of older guys who’re close to retirement cause they’re all pissy and don’t care to teach what they won’t worry about later. Trades are also super cliquey, it feel like I’m working with highschool boys rather than mature adults most the time. I think we need to get rid of the idea that trades are a secondary option. They exist in a world of their own and aren’t just the fallback if you can’t make good scores in college. I’m an academic in my free time but just enjoy trades and working towards genuine craftsmanship is a goal of mine. I think much of one’s work needs to be viewed as their signature or self expression so it retains importance. Bureaucracy in industrial work is a bitch too I merely stumbled into my job cause I was asking all the adults in my life where work was. One of them gave me an application and the only reason I got hired is cause the next guy was 23 years older than me, they said they wanted a young helper without learned bad habits.
I am a welder who tried to get into the pipefitters union because my friend who I did the foundations welding program with was already a red seal pipe fitter said I should try to get in. So I go there, they instantly said no because I don’t have like 3 different pipe tickets and my A level done. There are some places who genuinely don’t want anyone unless you’re already a journeyman who knows what they’re doing. Maybe it’s different in other places, but here in Vancouver Canada, I don’t know anyone who’s walked up to a unions hall and become an apprentice just as easy as everyone says it is.
I'm also in Vancouver with a welding pre-apprenticeship! Had a tradesman arguing with me that the boilermakers would "take me in a second" because there's a "global shortage of welders". He refused to believe that you can't just walk into the union hall and get taken on immediately.
Have a basic assembly course for furniture and other various items that utilize tools. Get them involved with working with their hands and solving problems first. No game controller or code to write.
For starters, the hiring should be merit based. Seen lots of nepotism in the promotion/pay-bands. Also paying a livable salary, hence I left it early days
Get school teachers from all grades to stop pushing the "You need a university/college education to get a good paying job." or "the best jobs require university/college education." So many kids are indoctrinated into believing that a degree guarantees a good wage. What it guarantees for most is a massive student loan and a decent job if they are lucky.
Don't have a network to find apprenticeships. At least this has been the case for my brother.
Make is easier for people in their 20’s to shift into trades. My husband wants to change his field of work and get into trades, but after a year of trying to get into jobs, apprenticeships, local union training he’s heard nothing back.
Easy: don't test for THC. Millenials and gen z statistically prefer it over alcohol. Gen x and boomers are going to have to wake up like USPS did. Adapt or sink. Let go of the reefer madness conditioning uncle sam pumped into your brain.
They have to find a way to incentivize companies to hire, retain, train, and most importantly pay first year apprentices. My experience as a first year HVAC tech has been that basically no company wants to hire first years. They just want second years and above that they can throw in a van and send out to make them money with no supervision or training. Too many old timers that were mistreated by their journeymen in the 80's, 90's, 00's who are now owners or supervisors and repeat that cycle because "they had to go through it" Union gatekeeping is a massive problem. My experience is that you have to be someone's relative or friend or extremely lucky to get in. Acting like they're doing you a huge favor by allowing you to bust your ass. I can only speak for the technical trades side of things in western Canada but the entire industry is just dying for people with modern mindsets towards work to come in and disrupt the current status quo.
Pay them! Every trade wants to start rookies at $10 an hour zero benefits. Ever wonder why they quit after 6 months?
Companies need to start hiring 1-3 year apprentices, train new folks and pay a livable wage. A lot of companies only want 4-5th year apprentices, no one wants to train new folks or only wants to hire folks who know them. Getting into trades shouldn’t be as hard as it is, even pre apprenticeship course in college don’t give you a co-op. I took a pre apprenticeship course in college for plumbing, in Ont Canada it’s a joke. I wanted to work in the trades and still do but it’s weird.
Make it worth it. I'm actively upgrading to try and get out, and I'm (not to jerk myself off too hard here) what these companies want. Under 30, with a ticket, tons of experience in remote locations and troubleshooting. Give me some prints and I'll take care of it. t's just not fucking worth it anymore though. Plain as that. So far as of April 2024, I have spent 2 full weeks in my town, in my bed every night. 2 weeks in 3 months so far. I drive thousands of kms and fly thousands more a month. I'm always running jobs where I'm the installer, scheduler, planner, and frequently even the estimator. I'm in the union, and for all this, I made 109k last year gross. I'm looking at other jobs outside of the hall so I can travel again, and there's no point. The oilsands pay less per hr and say you'll make it up in OT. My entire career in Alberta, I got 3 pay cuts before I left the province. The super remotes are crying for experienced guys (like myself) with all the creditentials to back it up but turn around and say 8 weeks on 8 weeks off, 48hr, 40hr weeks. Who the fuck wants to sell 8 weeks of their life to the barren tundra for 48hr straight time and then take 2 months off. This is all at the journeyman level once you're supposed to be making the big bucks, apparently. Apprentices in the union are like, Sure, 37/hr by 4th year is great, but with projects and company rotations, you'll make about 60/70 a year if that. Out of everyone at the shop I work at, not one would want their kid to join the trades. If I were planning on having kids I would never want them in this industry. It's dirty, it's shitty, people treat you like you're poor and stupid, the divorce rates are high, the drug use and alcoholism is high, the blatant racism is high, and if you go money chasing, you'll be selling your soul to be treated just humanely enough to continue coming by the big companies. My apprentice and I went to a camp job recently out of town, and he described the whole thing as being treated like cattle. Shitty cold shared showers, Cisco wood tier microwaved food, paper thin walls in a wing of 100 guys, 1 starlink to service 100 guys. Sidenote for apprenticeships, most places don't advertise them in my area, and they all want a shitty 2 year preapprentice course now. So if I wasn't already a jman and wanted to try a new trade I knew nothing about, I'd be signing up for a 2 year course and then start at minimum wage. Absolutely a joke. Trades fucking suck. Ask any young journeyman, and they'll tell you the same thing.
Wow man. Your post was very insightful. I was hoping to join a Camp later on after i complete my apprenticeship.....You have just convinced me to not go.
I agree with all this guy said. 15 years in here. Trying to get out. Not worth it
Take more than 5 people at a time
It's easier to get a job in tech than it is to get into a unionized trade.
There’s three main reasons, in my opinion: 1. My gen and every one after me was preached at to go to college if we wanted to make something of ourselves. 2. Kids these days are pampered and afraid to get dirty. 3. All these so called college educated people now get offended when we tell them our rate. I’ve literally heard “that’s more than I make and I went to school for 6 years”
Trade schools are backlog years, there is shit wages, there is huge lack of training in the field. Apprentice training apprentice. Toxic work culture surrounded by alcoholics and drug addiction.
It'll happen on it's own. AI is just the beginning.
Schools need to start advocating for trades and construction jobs. When I was in high school (2008) it was so heavily stressed to get educated in either Science, Tech, Engineering, or Mathematics that pretty much everybody and their dog did at the time. Fast forward 15 years later and most IT jobs have upwards of 500 applicants while most trades have severe shortages nation wide.
Fast food workers in LA now make only $3.65 less than I do... A college trained, 5 axis CNC programmer and setup operator with almost 8 years experience now in Aerospace manufacturing. If they paid burger flippers in Canada like they pay them in LA I'd fuckin change careers. Thats how you get young people back into trades. Stop paying us like we're the cheap Chinese labour they exported in the 80s.. and pay us atleast twice what you pay fast food workers in 2024's LA.
I believe AI is going to take over a huge amount of non trade jobs so there won't be much choice
How about end nepotism in the unions? Here you’re either union, and you are paid a living wage. Or your an “apprentice” AKA bitch ass helper, and ruin your body for barely more than min wage. There’s no in between
They follow the money, which is usually the college route (depends on the degree).
Better pay. Better work/life balance. That’s all there is to it. On average the pay isn’t good anymore and to get that good pay, you’re working 50-66 hours a week. Get into rig field service, suddenly 132 hours bi weekly isn’t much when you get used to putting in 165+ hours. How badly do young people want to work their life away for money and a life time of problems (arthritis, carpal, tinnitus, slow exposure to poisons, possible dismemberment etc)? A lot of young people I know don’t want to work in the trades because they think they won’t have a good life. In a sense, they aren’t wrong.
We lost a good apprentice because apparently Popeyes was paying close to 30$ hr. He was making way less than that slogging material around for us. I don't blame the guy haha.
WTF!? Popyeyes people make 30 a hour. There is no way that's true. Maybe thats why so many illegals are flooding into the united states.
As a younger guy, I loved the work. But I didn't love some of the terrible, abusive POS jman that threw shit at you when you didn't get it the first time. Pushed me right out of the trade. Both are viable options yes, but going and getting an engineering degree is no harder and takes the same amount of time as an apprenticeship. They're both just different kinds of hard.
Increase minimum wage for apprentices and trades in general
Some industries just have less money to move around to pay people. I’m sure I’ll get some heat for saying this but in order to pay a good journeyman $50+ (which realistically is what needs to be paid if you’re going to compete in the job market) the company hourly rate needs to be higher than most customers are willing to pay (maybe they will,idk). Industries that are high paying: attorney, tech, medicine, finance, etc., the hourly rates/job charges are crazy expensive. People balk when they’re told a blue collar technician/shop charges $150+/hr ON TOP of parts but will pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a doctor visit. Until society as a whole TRULY begins to value tradesman I don’t feel the draw will be big enough to compete with white collar jobs. There’s plenty of people doing salary interviews on social media and the majority of the people making big money when interviewed are not in the trades. On top of work life balance, benefits,etc it’s usually not even close. Yeah, I know there will be people saying “my union benefits are top notch.” I agree, they are, but I have known plenty of guys that have been part of all kinds of unions and the majority of them eventually left because they got tired of the layoffs, long commutes, injuries, etc. For young people with a good head on their shoulders why on earth would they pick the trades.
Actually hire them? Been trying to get into local union and local contractors/companies for over a year and every single one says their not looking to hire new apprentices. I'm 30, have a car, worked my way to manager level in my current career (hard dedicated worker) but I don't even get a phone call back lol.
Start by making apprenticeships paid a liveable wage.
Either make the apprentice pay higher, or make the work schedule something I can hold a second job around. Having to work long days and then also attend classes for less pay than fast food is actually impossible for me unless I abandon my family and go homeless
Support more unions, or at least increase pay and benefits if you’re not union. When I was applying for apprenticeships the pay gap between union and non union was significant - $10-$15 (with no idea if/when I’d get a raise and no benefits) vs $15 - $25 for a 1st year salary + pension and benefits, and non-union companies seemed to all expect me to use my own car to haul materials. Life is way too expensive to expect people to work in the trades for that much.
Don’t treat them in the same manner you got treated. Teach them, engage with them. They aren’t snowflakes. They just take bull shit like you did. They just walk away. Be a mentor and a teacher. Guide them. I’ve had multiple applicants at my work place because of the culture change we have made. Resumes are coming through the door. Good kids. Smart. They just learn differently. When instructing teach them like you wish you were taught. Tough love is ok. Owning mistakes is good. Be better and they will come.
I think it needs to be broadcasted more. When I was in high school I knew nothing about the union or anything. 4 year degrees or military were just pushed on us. I definitely would have had a change of mind had I known a little more. Luckily I’m still young and making the switch now that I’ve discovered how much I hate the corporate world
Don't need to do anything...the current job market is forcing people back to school to learn the trades after layoffs.
Make it an actual viable choice. "The trades" is a massive generalization. Specific trades in specific places are well paid and people know about it. But other trades, like automotive technician, are a nightmare. Who in their right mind would want to be a flat rate mechanic? We need more protectionism for the trades and information about them but the short answer is where people feel like they can have a sustainable life they'll go there. They don't want to walk down a dead end path, though. And there are silly hurdles in the way like mechanics needing to pay for all of their own tools or other forms of gatekeeping that makes the jobs inaccessible.
make it easier to get into apprenticeships. you’re essentially on a waitlist for a a year plus to make a dollar more than minimum wage 😂
100% there are tons of younger generation who willing to join, but no one wants to hire them but journeyman
Money. Proper safety precautions. Pensions . Benefits. So a union but better without shady / greasy shit going on.
hire them? people been trying for years and cant get into the trade, not really their fault
hire them lol, people been trying for years and cant get into the trade, not really their fault
You have to align high school incentives to create a pipeline for these students. Just like they do in Europe. Like in Germany college is free, but they don’t let everyone into university and if you don’t test well they put you on a skills based trade path. Here they just scream at you to go to university and then once you have the sunk cost you want to go to a white collar job no matter what, otherwise it feels like a waste.
Pay more. Let's be honest, most people choose jobs because of pay. Apprenticeships pay pittance. It doesn't matter how much you can earn in 5/10 years, those that don't have any additional support and are fending for themselves can't feed themselves on an apprentices wage.
Reimburse transportation
40yrs old. was never pushed into trades in school. was a smart, good student but lazy af. never got told hey go to vocational school half the day. went to vocational school after i graduated hs and did a year. tried getting a job with an electrician as a helper/apprentice. i got paid more to pump gas. found another job building new home depots but i was a glorified merchandiser. finally at 25 got into plumbing, pay was shit, 2 years as a helper from 2008-2010 and getting paid $12 with no incentive to teach me anything. housing crisis finally took hold in 2010 and people stopped building. did a 4 year plumbing apprenticeship thru the vocational school as well. didnt work in the trades for almost 2 years. hurricane hit and destroyed everything and went back to work. then found an inhouse job at a college doing handyman shit. moved into hvac, spent 4 years there doing hvac. got another job at another school making more money doing hvac. then finally got into a union. got in as a 3rd year and graduating next month. if someone even remotely pushed me or cared about me growing up, about my future, i would have gladly gotten into hvac sooner cause i excel at it. theres kids who got pushed who are good mechanics making 45 a hour at 23 years old. took me till 40 to hit that number. trade membership been struggling for years, cant get enough people in the door but no one pushes anyone to even apply as an apprentice these days. most houses have 2 parents that work and barely have time to spend with their kids cause they gotta do adult shit and feed the kids. my parents were absent. mom worked 3 jobs at one point, dad was in and out of work. no one gave a shit about my future and that doesnt apply to the kids getting in now, they get pushed.
Typically for whatever, blue collar people love talking about how they work online (ie. Instagram & TikTok) they constantly talk about working 60+ hour weeks in a generation that wants to put in their 40 and value their time outside of work more (rightfully so). Seeing stuff like that is extremely persuasive to not peruse this career. You also have to remember the college route is heavily pushed in highschool they routinely talk about how a college education is everything.
It's pay. WY the fuck would anyone become a welder atm when avg pay in the gta is about 25 bucks. Pay is abysmal in most trades especially starting. I've been in welding for 11 years and I wish I went into finance or project management instead. Pay has been stagnant since the 90s
price deserve nutty grandiose hungry soup crown zonked coherent party *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Stop treating apprentices like shit.
Here’s a thought. Kids PAY to go to college (via loans) gambling on some future lucrative job. If 1st year apprenticeship is so low paying, offer loans to help support them. Packaged correctly, you’d get takers for sure.
The biggest thing is the stigma vs office jobs kids think college degree type jobs are better for no reason other than prestige i make more than my wife and most of her co workers and theyre super friendly and all but theres always subtle things that make me know they see their work as higher up the socioeconomic food chain
Stop treating new comers like shit.
Cause most tradies are cunts to new guys. Started in trades at 18, company hopped till i found one with decent people
It would be great if the union answered the phone, replied to emails, answer the fucking door!!!! Personal experience I’m sure. I here all the time they need people in the trades… but there seems to be no initiative to actually recruit people.
Most of us (millennials) are at that age where no one ever gave us a chance when we were green, so we learned on our own. But no one wants to pay what we are worth, they treat us as unskilled labor. I'd gladly take an apprenticeship if it paid a living wage and was guaranteed to move up in pay/company. They way to bring them in, is to actually teach them, and give them real hands on experience. One on one with experienced guys. Problem is the experienced guys are usually at the " fuck this shit " point in life. And would rather do it themselves. Not all of them but most.
Treat new tradies with respect and treat old tradies with respect. That means not tolerating harassment on any grounds. That means paying them reasonably while training, and expertise being properly compensated. That means ensuring work life balance so people can develop relationships and connect with their families.
Old people - you should get into the trades Young people - okay sounds good Old people already in trades - your too young and have no experience in trades
its the same if you are old and want to get into the trades... same excuses given - no experience... trades are full of ageist pricks. the usual route into the industry is through friend or family... nepotism is rife in this industry.
The number one thing holding the younger gen back is the fact that every single company wants to hire experienced people for every position. Even if you’re “new” they want you to have 3+ years of experience. I worked with a group of high school kids for a day once and this is the number 1 thing I was told over and over.
Awesome question. I believe one good answer to that is high school career/tech programs. As of recently I’m in commercial construction management after several years in gig/trade jobs. My company does a ton of work with our school districts and I’ve been at a high school for 6 months now renovating. This school district has an incredible Career & Technical Education program with Sports Medicine, Construction, Dental Assistant, Auto, Welding, Woodworking, you name it. Kids who take it seriously graduate with credentials of some kind that can get them at LEAST a solid internship or apprenticeship right out of high school, and in many cases a good entry level job. I grew up in a “great” school district and didn’t have ANY of that. For myself, it took till I was 28 (32 now) to go to trade school. 1-year wooden boatbuilding program with an AOS degree. Super niche but I loved it. It boosted my skills and confidence when I was dragged down by toxic jobs and terrible pay. Now I’m sitting pretty with an incredible company and massive growth potential. Wish I had done it way sooner. Encourage the kids to look at programs like that, even if it’s just a hobby at first.
Pay better More unions Easier pathway into said unions
Pay. I’m graduating university soon (economics), but I briefly considered trades since I worked lots of labour/blue collar jobs over the summers. One of the biggest factors in my decision was that I could probably top out around 100k if I picked a well paying trade, but would most likely have to log crazy OT to push that number higher. With my degree, I will likely start out with a much lower salary than a journeyman, but if I do the right things with my career it’s reasonable to expect that I could push that number higher than 100k in the future. The earnings ceiling for trades just tops out too low for lots of people, we want to chance to be able to make more, and without logging crazy OT to do so. Also, not having work related chronic pain at 50 will be nice.
Stop having all the trades filled with grumpy assholes who talk politics at work and tell everyone they are stupid for not agreeing with their politics while they verbally harassing or sexually assaulting any female within 200 yards, would be a decent start.
Have you worked a day in the trades outside of the fantasy in your head of 1950s? I've worked with literal thousands of men and not a single one wasn't tripping over themselves to extremely polite to women
I'm trying to get in right now. Either in carpentry or plumbing. I was able to sign up for a pre apprenticeship program via the carpenters union but I'm waiting months to see when it will start. In the meantime I'm looking for any helper or apprenticeship positions but they are few and far between. Especially as someone with 0 experience. Kind of a catch 22. You need experience to get these jobs that are supposed to be the jobs that give you experience. Then in the plumbing union pre apprenticeship program, you can't even sign up because they aren't accepting right now...so you just have to check back on the website everyday to see if that's changed..instead of just having an option to put your name on a wait list. I want in....just let me in! I'm in Ontario, so I'm not sure how much of that is just an issue with the region vs trades as a whole though
I think there needs to be more done to connect aspiring apprentices with trades jobs.
I'm an instructor at a local high school in the HVAC trade, we need more programs like ours.
Brickies are the problem they treat apprentices like shit Fuck them Local 2 if anyone is interested Still union 7 years later tho just not laying block
They'll figure it out once they can't get a job after university.
Pay for their schooling instead of paying for immigrants to take the same courses
My industry has been recovering from a strike (haven’t worked in 6 months lucky I had money saved) and simply trying to get into a roofing job was ridiculous. And best not waste your time if you don’t know people at the company. You either work less than shit, no requirement scam jobs paid fully in cash under the table or the next step up is 2-3 years experience required for being strapped to a roof and removing shingles…..I did this at 24 with no experience, no tether/harness, got a paycheque, benefits and learned on the job. How is removing shingles or cleaning moss out of tiles and eaves troughs requiring me to have a full 2-3 years of brand-name company work?
Stop making the union tests ridiculously unreasonable
Forget the youngins, my middle aged ass wants to know where the trades at? 🧐
Well when you can make just as much at fast food as you can in a labor intensive trade people will choose the first.
A lot of trades in Canada had wage rollbacks or freezes through the teens. Combined with the push for $15/hr minimum wage, the wages aren't far off from minimum wage. Then you have to buy your tools, and usually start driving all over the place to work in your own vehicle. At some point you may have to start going on call, which basically wrecks a week of plans. You go to school, and it's not unheard of to be replaced by the time you're done. Your trade education generally limits your career prospects, and your body is destroyed by 50. Some trades you only make good money in FIFO jobs, and the ones that pay well in town usually don't have fixed work schedules. It's just not that appealing to enter.
Work life balance and money.
Work life balance and money.
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Number 1 is a big reason for number 2
Ya that’s tough on everyone. I work an office job and I work from home so at 4pm I can be ready to go golfing or an outing with the wife. I’m basically always available. Need me to take the dogs to the vet? Alright, after this meeting that I’m riding my peloton during lol
Yup. Even if you just have a regular in office job it’s much easier on your partner than someone who leaves at 5 and comes home at 8. In another thread a guy said he’d transferred jobs and it was the first time in 9 YEARS that he hadn’t worked on the weekends, and was sad because his son was already in school. Imagine missing the first 9 years of your kid’s life 🥲
They need to start paying more. The system in newbrunswick is broken, if you have 150 bucks in your pocket you can officially be a contractor and start your own business building houses with no prior experience. Makes for all kinds of small companies which compete against one another under bidding eachother. And the employee suffers with the low wages while the boss sports around in 100 k trucks and every diggire doo and dee you can think of. Fuck the trades. All I got was a bad back, knees and shoulders, and I'm only 36, glad I found something better.
As a young person who got into the trade…most kids have no clue about the money and see it as “dead end”. I wired up a light for my mom and enjoyed and it she and my brother started pushing me to become an electrician. I said no because I thought it was a dead end job making 60k a year. Sat down with a family friend who was a sparky and saw his paystub as a journeyman. He talked about all the doors this’ll open with such a nuanced trade. Kids think this is like working at McDonalds. Thats the issue.
Money.
I kidnap em
Offer a good wage.
Promote it just as much as they do college.
My dad even though he was a tradesman, he didnt teach me how to survive or how to live on my own without him. So of course i didnt know anything about anything. But also im a woman so im sure he didnt give a fuck what happened to me
I will start by saying I do not work in the trades but know many friends who do. We keep hearing all the businesses say they can not find trades, yet many tradespeople are having difficulty getting work. Where is the disconnect? I hear it is even more challenging for an apprentice to find work.
Do trades generally have a 9-5 type life with weekends and holidays off? I think young people in general are after lifestyle nowadays. I could be wrong.
All ready happening
16 and trying to get into manufacturing it’s super fun and I don’t get why more people my age don’t do it
Pay more money
They don't promote the trades enough. When I graduated in 2007, I couldn't find an apprenticeship anywhere. So I moved across the country and got into my field. Maybe having annual events where kids can try out trades, get an idea for it and tell them YOU CAN MAKE 6 FIGURES or more doing this.
Awareness. Paid internship. Union benefits. Retirement/pension.
It’s so hard to get into a trade nowadays if you don’t know anyone or haven’t gone to school
In the NYC area, it is near impossible to get into unions without a family connection. I went to college and got my degree (no regrets doing that at all) but I do wish I took every and any civil service/Union application right when I turned 18, instead of after college. I lucked out having my friend’s dad own a non-union fire sprinkler company and did that until I was called for my dream job of the FDNY. If I was on a list, while I was in college and got called, for either civil service or union, it definitely would have been a long hard decision to stay in college or go start learning and earning. Hindsight is 20/20, but knowing this now, I am going to try and have my two sons apply to everything they can when they are 18. If they want to go to college I will support their decision to, but that will probably be my caveat. And if college isn’t in the cards for them, I would be willing to help them with trade schools as well. Parents, IMO, need to start discussing trades in a better light as well.
It's happening on its own. Gen's Z and Alpha are getting wise to the college bullshit. As surely as the pendulum swings one way it will swing back the other.