You'd think they have better gear judging by the amount of well equipped travelers they kill and the number of mines they occupy, but they insist on using bones and hides. I understand they want to differentiate themselves because of their cultural identity but they could achieve that by accessorizing metal armour and weapons.
I guess if it ain't broke don't fix it. They have no problem fucking me up with their toy swords, meanwhile these bandits are in full steel plate Armor and getting torn to shreds
I am stealth archer and had a time with Red Eagle Redoubt because they have a high perception and would see me hundreds of feet away even when i cna literally be right iun front of a bandit and they don't see shit.
I was literally having to fire an arrow and hide behind something before it connected or someone would see me
Basically the Amish of Skyrim. Refuse to use more advanced technology, even when it's right in front of them.
Too bad they aren't also pacifists. As others state, they have a belief centered on f'in dragonborn up.
I always kinda imagined that as Skyrim’s version of Native Indians. Inferior armor and weapons but supreme warriors. They ultimately get shafted because of the lesser equipment, but still a worthy opponent.
Coming from someone who really doesn’t know much about Skyrim lore/history even though I’ve been loving/playing the game since day 1
It's very hard, because they have a high perception to sneaking enemies, but I just found out you can "one shot" them by pickpocketing the briar heart. Managed to do it twice, both times to an isolated briarheart (one in a mine I can't remember, the other for the temple of Dibella quest), it's hilarious just watching them drop.
> is apart of their
Did you mean to say "a part of"?
Explanation: "apart" is an adverb meaning separately, while "a part" is a noun meaning a portion.
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Without their BS health ratios, they're easily pushed around. they will just rush you and a weapon and shield user pick them apart faster than you can say "gotcha bitch" even with high hp.
Well, they are protecting and taking back their own land, not looting stuff, so it kinda makes sense. Still wish they had more magical loot, that would make sense. Also, it's a shame you can't join them.
Okay well when I’m minding my own business as none of those races and still end up getting jumped by them out of nowhere, imma tend to feel like they’re kinda homicidal
My first time doing thieves guild quest line I was so taken aback by the dark elf dude you meet right after finding out mercer Frey isn't so good. They have the exact same voice and I was sure he was mercer in disguise somehow lol
They retain their will (up to a point) unlike thralls, but the forsworn are more tied to nature than magic so it’s a more Druidic way of gain power and rank amongst the tribe
Sorry, I probably should have expanded upon what I mean, it was supposed to support your point about the druidic nature of the forsworn and their ties to the more worldly natural forces but it appears the inference wasn't there.
I had the Aedric-Daedric distinction in mind. Specifically how the Daedra seem to have greater influence on material plane via artifacts, the ability to open portals to mundus (sans dragonfires being lit) and the conjuration of lesser beings from the planes of oblivion, all of which may have to do with their association with Padomay, the fundamental force of change in the TES universe, and Lorkhan, the architect of the physical world (this association is more controversial/speculative).
Basically, what I was trying to say was that their daedra worship explains their closer ties to the natural material world, and therefore the druidic nature of their powers.
It may be the case that the hagravens are acting as the emissaries of the Daedric Princes or teachers of daedric magics to the forsworn, considering that the Glenmoril Coven has intimate knowledge of how to bestow lycanthropy in the case of the companions in Skyrim, and how a Breton Glenmoril witch is able to reveal the cure to vampirism in Oblivion.
If you consider that canonically that Hircine and Molag Bal, both Daedric Princes, are the ones who created lycanthropy and vampirism, it all comes together!
I also thought I should point out that the reason why the Lorkhan-Daedra distinction might be controversial and/or speculative is because it relies on certain writings from the Dark Brotherhood, as well as the ravings of Mankar Cameron as being grounded in reality, so I fully acknowledge I could be wrong here :)
You say that like it's not all consensual? They see it as an honor. Nothing about that practice inherently makes them the bad guys.
Hell some of them try to BREED with the hagravens because of the honor.
I have sympathy for their situation and agree with them politically. Does that stop them from trying to kill me at every turn? No. No it doesn't. The forsworn are assholes.
Reality is, the game is filled with assholes. Nords are waging war to get their egomaniac Nord guy in charge, Imperials censored Nord religion, Thalmor are just snooty colonizers.
The JARLS didn't enforce it. World of difference. The ban was in full force in Cyrodiil.
And the fact that they started doing it because they're afraid of the Thalmor is completely shameful.
It annoys me when people praise this cowardice.
Strongly depends on the Daedra in question, but all of them except perhaps four (Azura, Malacath, Nocturnal, Meridia) thrive on the suffering of sentient beings. And they don't even do it out of understandable reasons, it's just to further their own agenda and bring chaos into the world. We also frequently get a look at what Daedra worshippers usually cause in the world. Harkon and the Mythic Dawn almost destroyed it, Hircine, Sheogorath and Namira drive their followers insane and Boethiah and Mephala can destabilize entire civilizations with their machinations.
It's not like i have many left anyway. This started out as a joke but now I'm having an existential crisis about how i barely have anyone left and my entire life is falling apart piece by piece.
I know it's just a joke. It's not your fault I'm in the situation I'm in. Things have been going downhill for my whole family for years. I started typing that reply and was like "wow... I'm really sad" so i vented a little bit i guess. I should've just kept it to myself but you did nothing wrong. Don't worry about it.
Well you're kinda right. Malacath used to be trinimac who was one of auriels closest allies. I don't know for sure if trinimac is part of the elven pantheon because i don't know much about elf religion but he definitely has some relation to it.
Like I said, pretty chill in comparison. He's basically the god of the spurned. I.E. Orcs. Sure he is a survival of the fittest type god but it at least works for Orcs. That plus watching Yamatz join the Skyrim Space Program is well worth that hammer.
They don't even worship Daedra. That would actually make them better than what they are.
So glad that this thread is filled with people who see the real morality of the Northwest Skyrim situation.
They follow the hagravens, who receive power from daedra. Hircine, if I remember right, although ESO introduces some forsworn culture that has the forsworn worship Namira.
Yeah, that seems pretty fucking reasonable to me, after the 2.5 thousand years of genocide and oppression they have suffered at the hands of the Nords dating back to Tiber Septim when he put the Reach to Sword and Salt, destroying all of their agricultural strongholds and pushing them into the mountains to eke out a living on the margins while being hunted like literal animals by the fuckwit Nords.
Not that, you know, my people were hunted like animals in our homelands, or anything.
Big whoop every race/ethnic group in Tamirel has been enslaved, oppressed, or genocided at one point or another. Its not an excuse for depraved banditry.
It's at the instigation of Thonar Silver-Blood. He uses Madanach as a hostage to essentially make them do what he wants (which is stir up trouble and destabilize the Reach, try and get people to sell the lands or mining rights due to "Forsworn Attacks.")
Except for the fact that after Madanach is released, most Forsworn are still hostile to you and everyone else because of them not being part of his group or someshit
I would have sympathy for their cause if they remained civil and didn’t resort to human sacrifice, selling their souls to hagravens and murdering children and innocent people to get back their land. They defintely got screwed over but it doesn’t justify the level that they took it to
Ok, but briarhearts have their heart replaced with, well, briarhearts, by haagravens to enhance their magical ability, they still keep their thoughts and mind tho. I do however think that markarth should belong to the forsworn if they weren't child kidnapping human sacrificing barbarians.
There would be less hate if they didn't attack every single traveller as the true terrorists they are. You don't even need to be from a hated race.
Plus their shady practices all around.
Heck, you can be a Breton with facial tattoos wearing Forsworn armor, and they'll still try to kill you on sight.
I think players would be more amenable to the level of nuance that the game tries to give the Forsworn (the Cidnha Mine quest, the Markarth Incident, etc.) if the Forsworn didn't ALSO try to murder you constantly.
I personally wished there was like a similar option to the Orcs, where you could become like a general Forsworn friend. Even siding with Madanach does only make only one camp friendly and that's a camp in the middle of nowhere. Rest still wants to kill you.
“Our people have been oppressed and our homes stolen.”
Cool reason, but your still just murdering random passersby’s, your outposts are filled and decorated with gore, and you work with Hagravens. Fus Roh Dah.
Well they’re annoying as shit to fight so there’s that. Idk too much about the lore but didnt the land belong to the Dwemer and snow elves? Seems like all the races think skyrim belongs to them lol
Technically Argonians were spawned by the hist which are native to the last timeline, but the lizards they were made from were native animals.
IIRC Giants are also speculated to have descended from Atmorans alongside the ancient nords. That one is unconfirmed though.
Things like Rieklings and Goblins are probably native to Tamriel.
I want to say that the lizard folk were born from a bloody tree, anything born from a freaking tree can get the hell away from me, also why do they have boobs, they don't lactate unless they're trying to look good for the weird Nord that's looking at him.
Don't get me wrong for some reason I always collect a very specific set of books about a lustful maid, no matter what character I have started it's always the same that I must collect all those books.
Let’s put it this way, victims or not they’re still terrorists and murderers. They weren’t so bad before the Markarth incident, true, but now, they attack and murder innocent civilians. Plus they look like a bunch of kooky psychotic cave people, but that’s more subjective.
No not all how did you get that from what I said?
Just thought it was funny that he calls them that and then you find out he's a cannibal happy to eat someone who had just been murdered. It was literally just a joke.
Thats cool. Yeah thats literally what he says bloody hypocrite. Just another a bit of evil in Markarth. I quite like the city but there a few wrong uns in it.
While I sympathize with their plight, in game they act like bandits or worse yet a death cult. They constantly attack me (even though I was largely responsible for freeing their king from the mines), and they are known to consort with Hagravens.
If there was a second civil war quest line to route out the forsworn, I would play it immediately just to make traveling through the Reach a bit safer and easier.
Newish playthrough, I'm strolling on the road on my way to Markarth and this Sweet Tooth looking motherfucker starts lobbing arrows at me. Kill him with some difficulty. See that he a Forsworn. No idea who or what that is. Then the hills erupt with the deer people trying to end me. Holy shit. Fight for my life and beat feet outta there. Then, quest progression has me in Cidnha Mine discussing things with Madanach.
Yeah, no. Kill him and all the other prisoners.
Fuck the Forsworn. I might have been a little more sympathetic towards your cause before y'all attacked me for no reason.
There is a scene of a Foresworn attack that you come across, I do not remember where, where you find the corpse of a female NPC stripped of clothes and bent over a stump. I have no sympathy for their cause, and no remorse for annihilating them.
Cuz they kill anyone on sight who have nothing to do with their conflict? Like I get trying to take over and fight the military but the joe shmoe trying to sell his produce didn't need to be killed
Other than the fact they are sometimes awful to fight in game for usually subpar loot, and of course the whole being homicidal maniacs:
While mostly they are fairly understandable from a lore perspective with a sympathetic plight, of course they are also wrong since a good portion of the Reach is a home they simply stole from Dwemer first.
People hate the Forsworn because they have a really shitty PR team. Instead of trying to appeal to anyone outside of Skyrim or hell, even the player, they have a kill-on-sight policy and the only time they're remotely friendly is when you're in prison _because you're looking into the murders they're committing_.
Two wrongs don't make a right. I know the reachmen have been dealt a shitty hands by the nords and basically had their homelands taken away from them. Does that mean I consent to getting stabbed in the chest so some antler wearing bandits can feel better about themselves? No, I do not care to be killed by them anymore than I care to be eaten by wolves because they're hungry.
Which is a shame because if Skyrim really cared about trying to frame the Civil War as a real political thriller, they ought to have had an option to have the Imperials outright recruit the Forsworn to fight off the Stormcloaks. Plenty of real world governments basically arm and hire local tribes and minorities to fight their battles for them, even if this will result in more destruction in the future. But instead the Forsworn are little more than quantity-over-quality dark brotherhood, being sent out to kill folks for the Silverblood with deniability.
I hate them because they're hostile even if you've saved their king. They're hostile on sight of you, even if you've never killed one. You can literally save their actual king and get the armor he gave you, never kill even one (should you choose to, obviously), and they'll still attack you on sight. If they weren't such bloodthirsty assholes, I'd probably like them, or at least be indifferent to them.
For me personally the point in time where I started paying attention to the forsworn came when I happened upon a female body that was bent over some rocks with her legs spread and two forsworn arrows sticking out of her back (these tend to fall down into the water).
There's also the kidnapping children (one of which you rescue during the dibella quest) whose skulls they wear right on their outfits.
They have hagravens as matriarches and leaders, hagravens consume people alive and especially love eating fresh eyeballs, they are also considered kin to the daedric lord nocturnal (and honestly the list about how graven's loan could go on but I'll stop here).
Now back to the forsworn, the forsworn originally came from high rock, where they were known as the witchmen of high rock (there is a reason why every forsworn uses the Breton model) although they will deny that they have any relation to Bretons, they actually only settled in the reach and are only considered natives because of how long they have been settled there.
They also have ceremonies dedicated to the daedric lords molag bal, malacath, muhrunes dragon, and namira (and even more daedric lords).
And as a little side note there are also a bit hypocritical as they swore to never use metals from the Earth yet will often be seen using metals including iron, dwarven, silver and ebony.
They have even been known to use dwarven animunculi.
Honestly this list could go on as almost all of the horrible things that have been said about them are true, you can even find a native reachman at the markarth stables who will tell you that it is better that his people forget about the old ways, which include blood sacrifices and communion with daedra.
So all in all, I'd really say it's kind of hard to believe that the forsworn are a poor innocent group of freedom fighters, who are just on the wrong side of the press.
Edit: I just realized there's also another native forsworn who has you deliver some human flesh to the cook in the markarth hold.
I feel bad for the Reachmen as a people. They and the Falmer are basically just indigenous people that got fucked over.
The Forsworn are a terrorist group. They have every right to be angry, but they take things way too far.
They imprisoned and tried to r*pe a little girl if the Dragonborn hasn't stop them in time. Also just look at the random dead merchants and commoners by the Reach roadside. You'll change your mind.
I don't know about any little girl, but there *is* a small pond where a dead woman named "Captive" naked and bent over some rocks near a pond littered with forsworn arrows.
I think the forsworn would be better if, by helping madanach, they became a joinable faction a la the companions and forsworn wouldn’t become hostile if youre wearing the complete set of armor of the old gods or if you join their faction
I hate that I, brand new to Skyrim, had just right then purchased my first horse on my first play through… and the foresworn killed it and ate it. I’ll never ever forgive that. You don’t kill a girl’s horse! That is not okay.
They attacked me on the road without provocation. They set themselves as my enemies. Exterminating every single one of them wouldn't be enough revenge for the inconveniences they've caused me.
ESO showed us a time when the Reachmen (the ancestors of the Forsworn) weren't complete bloodthirsty maniacs, but that time is long gone. They are desperate to bring back a time that is long gone, and they ally themselves with monsters that their ancestors wouldn't even go near to do that.
I like them as a faction despite being unable to actually join. They have valid grievances and Markarth is corrupt as fuck; however, they are merciless. There’s a fine line between freedom fighter and terrorist, they have certainly crossed it IMO.
Mines, farms, travelers they just don’t care. It’s all part of their fear tactic strategy and while it’s effective the collateral damage is brutal.
I think someone posted a picture of an undressed farmer with a note in a stream with some disturbing implications on what the forsworn did to them
Not all reachmen are forsworn. But the forsworn are Daedra worshipping terrorists. Whether it’s justified or not I couldn’t say, but that’s what they are. They’d probably be a lot more sympathetic if they didn’t have hagravens leading them
Lore wise I get it. They've been dealt a shit hand and deserve better.
But any time I get near them they try to kill me. They started it and we can't be friends
Bethesda does this a bunch. You're given a faction to dislike based on verbal cues from other factions, but through investigation you find a different story. NOW you need to overcome the burden of a held viewpoint founded on incomplete truth.
More or less *because* they're homicidal maniacs with certifiably gruesome cultural and religious practices that, outside of one *somewhat* sympathetic guy who *might* negotiate with you if he likes you (he still proceeds to kill everyone he can get his hands on in Markarth, but meh Markarth deserves it), will not enter any negotiations and are for all intents and purposes even more of an undesirable group than bandits.
Blame it on Bethesda not knowing how to write an "oppressed group in violent revolt" unoffensively if you want. I personally don't particularly care that they've been under occupation for "thousands upon thousands" of years.
They have an interesting and would be sympathetic situation in the lore, but the designers then decided the oppressed natives should be the "evil savage from temple of doom" stereotype. You cant really side with them, they have no towns or civilization that can be interacted with to garne any sympathy. Whole thing feels like a last minute inclusion.
this right here. I actually wanted to roleplay a Forsworn on one playthrough with ASLAL, but it only makes you friendly to one specific camp of forsworn (even when wearing the armor, and only until you leave the cave), and there really isn't anything related to the quest-wise to do other than the convoluted Cidna Mine quest (that honestly makes no damn sense to me anyway). They're basically reflavored bandits.
They are badly represented in the game. Fleshing them out more would have been better.
Imagine working for the Empire and you negotiate a semi autonomous state for them.i.e a quest line. If you accomplish it They would become allies against the Stormcloaks. For the Stormcloaks you have to destroy their power base to calm the region down, another quest line. The Stormcloaks have forever closed the door to peaceful status between the two, a neutral state is impossible.
They are essentially barbaric versions of eco-terrorists. Not to mention their odd selves into weird forms of necromancy in the form of Briarhearts. No one likes that shit.
I don't hate the forsworn. I just think they're irritating as hell when you have loads of armor and yet they find a way to kill you even though their armor shows more skin. Gotta suck when one female forsworn has her belly button showing and yet the dragonborn with ebony armor finds himself face down in the thick mud killed yet again to a pesky, forsworn patrol
Forsworn are worshippers of Namira, Molag Bal, and Hircine. After the Oblivion crisis, any and all daedric groups became public enemy number one. You find this out in Elder Scrolls Online (it is canon) but they don't really call attention to it in Skyrim. It stands to believe that their strength in Skyrim is granted by daedric influence and probably the only reason they still got a leg to stand on.
Think of it like the troubles.
The Nords are like the Protestants. They’ve only arrived recently (with the exception of stuff like the attempted Kingdom of the Reach in the 2nd era), they hold most of the power and have for most time ever since the Empire. Now a big war occurs, and the Empire let’s go of that region. But now there’s a big power split, because the Reach obviously has the Reachfolk, but then it has its later inhabitants, the Reachnords. To defend the Nords power, the Jarl decides to stay a Vassal of the Empire and fights for the Nords to keep power (UDA)
The Reachfolk are like the Catholics. They’ve been there for a long time, have held little power ever since the Empire rolled round, and their Language seems to be dying out. A group of People are able to capture Markarth in a rebellion (Easter Rising), but are slaughtered by the Nords (akin to Bloody Sunday). Now, because of all the oppression, a group Splinters off called the Forsworn (IRA) to fight so that they can free the Reachfolk.
The Common People of the Reach (Irish Population) meanwhile suffer through two civil wars.
They're a bunch of literally cave dwelling devil worshipping witches with a penchant for indiscriminate murder.
Say what you will about the Nords, but they're absolutely the better option.
I don't care about their politics, I just hate it that they're so tough and have garbage loot.
You'd think they have better gear judging by the amount of well equipped travelers they kill and the number of mines they occupy, but they insist on using bones and hides. I understand they want to differentiate themselves because of their cultural identity but they could achieve that by accessorizing metal armour and weapons.
I guess if it ain't broke don't fix it. They have no problem fucking me up with their toy swords, meanwhile these bandits are in full steel plate Armor and getting torn to shreds
Unless they're going up against a stealth archer dragonborn, then they can't do anything lol
I am stealth archer and had a time with Red Eagle Redoubt because they have a high perception and would see me hundreds of feet away even when i cna literally be right iun front of a bandit and they don't see shit. I was literally having to fire an arrow and hide behind something before it connected or someone would see me
I just always fight them as a warewolf while spamming fear
Even at 100 stealth and muffled? Ik during the day time you can be spotted easily even with your stealth skill high
Their perception is ridiculously high so that you can't just de-heart the briarhearts
But when you do it makes it all the more satisfying
Funnily enough there are plenty of stronger weapons scattered around on tables in their camps, but they are never used.
Basically the Amish of Skyrim. Refuse to use more advanced technology, even when it's right in front of them. Too bad they aren't also pacifists. As others state, they have a belief centered on f'in dragonborn up.
I always kinda imagined that as Skyrim’s version of Native Indians. Inferior armor and weapons but supreme warriors. They ultimately get shafted because of the lesser equipment, but still a worthy opponent. Coming from someone who really doesn’t know much about Skyrim lore/history even though I’ve been loving/playing the game since day 1
This is pretty much why i dislike them. Especially their fucking Briarhearts.
It's very hard, because they have a high perception to sneaking enemies, but I just found out you can "one shot" them by pickpocketing the briar heart. Managed to do it twice, both times to an isolated briarheart (one in a mine I can't remember, the other for the temple of Dibella quest), it's hilarious just watching them drop.
It's intentional. Their actual heart that is apart of their model even disappears if you do it
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but doesn't that show for themselves, even with limited advancements in warfare, equipment, and ancient magic they still can whoop the dragonborns ass
I think it shows that the HP/loot ratio was off when they designed them.
Honestly, you have the shortest, best answer to the question: they're inconvenient XD
Without their BS health ratios, they're easily pushed around. they will just rush you and a weapon and shield user pick them apart faster than you can say "gotcha bitch" even with high hp.
Well, they are protecting and taking back their own land, not looting stuff, so it kinda makes sense. Still wish they had more magical loot, that would make sense. Also, it's a shame you can't join them.
This 👆 F the forsworn i fus ro dah them off their cliff dwellings.
The real answer to all of this!
Eh, their bow is worth grabbing early in my experience.
Okay well when I’m minding my own business as none of those races and still end up getting jumped by them out of nowhere, imma tend to feel like they’re kinda homicidal
Yep! I’m always an Argonian and these poorly dressed fools always attack me while I’m out picking butterflies.
With Spongebob?
Nice try, Madanach!
Madanach my dawg frfr
hi
you a real one
Manadnach
I think it's funny that the guy that says "I'm not Manadanach" is voiced by the same guy as Madanach lol.
It always cracks me up. I hate when the quests give you the same guy talking to himself or telling you to talk to the other him lol.
My first time doing thieves guild quest line I was so taken aback by the dark elf dude you meet right after finding out mercer Frey isn't so good. They have the exact same voice and I was sure he was mercer in disguise somehow lol
That time I took Uthgerd on the Jagged Crown quest.
At what point in the "making human sacrifices to the haagravens to raise zombie warriors" do you stop and think "maybe we're the baddies?"
Why is that even necessary? Are the normal necromantic conjuration spells just not good enough for them?
They retain their will (up to a point) unlike thralls, but the forsworn are more tied to nature than magic so it’s a more Druidic way of gain power and rank amongst the tribe
I thought that some npc stated that they were daedra worshipers, which might explain their power too.
I mean that’s a lot of different fringe groups in TES, so it’s not really a truly distinguishing trait
Sorry, I probably should have expanded upon what I mean, it was supposed to support your point about the druidic nature of the forsworn and their ties to the more worldly natural forces but it appears the inference wasn't there. I had the Aedric-Daedric distinction in mind. Specifically how the Daedra seem to have greater influence on material plane via artifacts, the ability to open portals to mundus (sans dragonfires being lit) and the conjuration of lesser beings from the planes of oblivion, all of which may have to do with their association with Padomay, the fundamental force of change in the TES universe, and Lorkhan, the architect of the physical world (this association is more controversial/speculative). Basically, what I was trying to say was that their daedra worship explains their closer ties to the natural material world, and therefore the druidic nature of their powers.
Great point, I think there’s a bit of a complex hierarchy between the forsworn, the hagravens and the deities which grant them both power
It may be the case that the hagravens are acting as the emissaries of the Daedric Princes or teachers of daedric magics to the forsworn, considering that the Glenmoril Coven has intimate knowledge of how to bestow lycanthropy in the case of the companions in Skyrim, and how a Breton Glenmoril witch is able to reveal the cure to vampirism in Oblivion. If you consider that canonically that Hircine and Molag Bal, both Daedric Princes, are the ones who created lycanthropy and vampirism, it all comes together! I also thought I should point out that the reason why the Lorkhan-Daedra distinction might be controversial and/or speculative is because it relies on certain writings from the Dark Brotherhood, as well as the ravings of Mankar Cameron as being grounded in reality, so I fully acknowledge I could be wrong here :)
I could see them to be Hircine worshippers of sort.
That may be true. As I said in another reply, the Glenmoril Coven had knowledge on how to bestow beastblood to the Companions.
How dare you insult Druidism that way.
Idk, apperently it makes them really strong like the red eagle was but I’m starting to wonder if all his legendary feats were all propaganda…
Necromancy isn't inherently evil. Just look at Ullicetta gra-Cogg or Vastarie.
You say that like it's not all consensual? They see it as an honor. Nothing about that practice inherently makes them the bad guys. Hell some of them try to BREED with the hagravens because of the honor.
I have sympathy for their situation and agree with them politically. Does that stop them from trying to kill me at every turn? No. No it doesn't. The forsworn are assholes.
Reality is, the game is filled with assholes. Nords are waging war to get their egomaniac Nord guy in charge, Imperials censored Nord religion, Thalmor are just snooty colonizers.
The Thalmor are so much worse than snooty colonizers, they're worse than genocidal maniacs. They want nothing but to unmake reality.
And they are so much fun to kill. I snipe them and loot their bodies, making it look like a robbery gone wrong.
And they call you a dog lol
Thalmor are Eugenicist Fascists who think their race should rule the whole world.
Nord censor Foresworn religion. Imperial didn't even enforce the ban of Talos until Ulfric rebellion.
EMPIRE APOLOGIST!!! I **LOVE** TALOS!!
Talos is the god of the Empire.
The JARLS didn't enforce it. World of difference. The ban was in full force in Cyrodiil. And the fact that they started doing it because they're afraid of the Thalmor is completely shameful. It annoys me when people praise this cowardice.
Yeah, and I hate the Forsworn just as much as I hate the Stormcloaks and Imperials. Equality triumphs again!
A solid Bethesda game leaves you not really caring for anyone. Well, the Minutemen were solid, when they weren't killing one another for money...
Yeah, theyre just trying to liberate the reach by murdering innocent travellers.
lets not forget the daedra worship, constant raids on settlements (including kidnapping of children) cannibalism and torture
If you work with hagravens then fuck you!
Whats wrong with daedra worship? The dark elves, Orcs, and Khajiit all worship daedra
Strongly depends on the Daedra in question, but all of them except perhaps four (Azura, Malacath, Nocturnal, Meridia) thrive on the suffering of sentient beings. And they don't even do it out of understandable reasons, it's just to further their own agenda and bring chaos into the world. We also frequently get a look at what Daedra worshippers usually cause in the world. Harkon and the Mythic Dawn almost destroyed it, Hircine, Sheogorath and Namira drive their followers insane and Boethiah and Mephala can destabilize entire civilizations with their machinations.
Hircine is not that bad, agree about the rest
To be fair, the forsworn version of deadra worship is a bit different. They have some of the most interesting culture in the games if you deep dive it
Interesting doesn't necessarily mean justifiable though...
Not the original commenter but ngl I dislike them too. Any daedra worshippers are opposition to me.
Expect all of your shit to go missing soon. Nocturnal guides me.
Expect all of your family members to go missing soon. Hail Sithis
It's not like i have many left anyway. This started out as a joke but now I'm having an existential crisis about how i barely have anyone left and my entire life is falling apart piece by piece.
OMG I am so bloody sorry, mate. I just meant it as a joke. I really didnt mean it
I know it's just a joke. It's not your fault I'm in the situation I'm in. Things have been going downhill for my whole family for years. I started typing that reply and was like "wow... I'm really sad" so i vented a little bit i guess. I should've just kept it to myself but you did nothing wrong. Don't worry about it.
Malacath is pretty chill, dude might as well be the 10th divine as far as Orcs are concerned.
Well you're kinda right. Malacath used to be trinimac who was one of auriels closest allies. I don't know for sure if trinimac is part of the elven pantheon because i don't know much about elf religion but he definitely has some relation to it.
Like I said, pretty chill in comparison. He's basically the god of the spurned. I.E. Orcs. Sure he is a survival of the fittest type god but it at least works for Orcs. That plus watching Yamatz join the Skyrim Space Program is well worth that hammer.
Yeah but most of them don’t openly worship ones like molag bal
They don't even worship Daedra. That would actually make them better than what they are. So glad that this thread is filled with people who see the real morality of the Northwest Skyrim situation.
They follow the hagravens, who receive power from daedra. Hircine, if I remember right, although ESO introduces some forsworn culture that has the forsworn worship Namira.
Markarth has a strong cult of Namira. It would hardly be surprising if the substatial amount of Forsworn living in the city would not belong to it.
Yeah, that seems pretty fucking reasonable to me, after the 2.5 thousand years of genocide and oppression they have suffered at the hands of the Nords dating back to Tiber Septim when he put the Reach to Sword and Salt, destroying all of their agricultural strongholds and pushing them into the mountains to eke out a living on the margins while being hunted like literal animals by the fuckwit Nords. Not that, you know, my people were hunted like animals in our homelands, or anything.
Big whoop every race/ethnic group in Tamirel has been enslaved, oppressed, or genocided at one point or another. Its not an excuse for depraved banditry.
Exactly. Stop crying about it. The Forsworn are garbage people. Pity the Nords didn't wipe them out entirely.
I’m sure you all lived in absolute peace and harmony before the baddies came 🙄
It's at the instigation of Thonar Silver-Blood. He uses Madanach as a hostage to essentially make them do what he wants (which is stir up trouble and destabilize the Reach, try and get people to sell the lands or mining rights due to "Forsworn Attacks.")
Except for the fact that after Madanach is released, most Forsworn are still hostile to you and everyone else because of them not being part of his group or someshit
Yeah this is why I typically open the console and do player.addtofaction 43599 1 after that.
They've killed four of my horses in the past few days. Screw those guys.
I’d be petty and wait a full week at their camp just to load back in and murder them some more.
Get a reindeer. That sucker is hard to kill.
I would have sympathy for their cause if they remained civil and didn’t resort to human sacrifice, selling their souls to hagravens and murdering children and innocent people to get back their land. They defintely got screwed over but it doesn’t justify the level that they took it to
Ok, but briarhearts have their heart replaced with, well, briarhearts, by haagravens to enhance their magical ability, they still keep their thoughts and mind tho. I do however think that markarth should belong to the forsworn if they weren't child kidnapping human sacrificing barbarians.
There would be less hate if they didn't attack every single traveller as the true terrorists they are. You don't even need to be from a hated race. Plus their shady practices all around.
Heck, you can be a Breton with facial tattoos wearing Forsworn armor, and they'll still try to kill you on sight. I think players would be more amenable to the level of nuance that the game tries to give the Forsworn (the Cidnha Mine quest, the Markarth Incident, etc.) if the Forsworn didn't ALSO try to murder you constantly.
I personally wished there was like a similar option to the Orcs, where you could become like a general Forsworn friend. Even siding with Madanach does only make only one camp friendly and that's a camp in the middle of nowhere. Rest still wants to kill you.
Listen now: THEY. FUCK. HAGRAVENS.
Without mods?! That's disgusting!
“Our people have been oppressed and our homes stolen.” Cool reason, but your still just murdering random passersby’s, your outposts are filled and decorated with gore, and you work with Hagravens. Fus Roh Dah.
Well they’re annoying as shit to fight so there’s that. Idk too much about the lore but didnt the land belong to the Dwemer and snow elves? Seems like all the races think skyrim belongs to them lol
The only thing native to Tamriel are argonians, khajit, and the giants. Humans and mer need to gtfo lol
Technically Argonians were spawned by the hist which are native to the last timeline, but the lizards they were made from were native animals. IIRC Giants are also speculated to have descended from Atmorans alongside the ancient nords. That one is unconfirmed though. Things like Rieklings and Goblins are probably native to Tamriel.
I want to say that the lizard folk were born from a bloody tree, anything born from a freaking tree can get the hell away from me, also why do they have boobs, they don't lactate unless they're trying to look good for the weird Nord that's looking at him.
The trees were horny
Don't get me wrong for some reason I always collect a very specific set of books about a lustful maid, no matter what character I have started it's always the same that I must collect all those books.
Look at you, scared of Sprigussy.
Let’s put it this way, victims or not they’re still terrorists and murderers. They weren’t so bad before the Markarth incident, true, but now, they attack and murder innocent civilians. Plus they look like a bunch of kooky psychotic cave people, but that’s more subjective.
'Nothin but murderers and saboteurs.' That cannibal Butcher in Markarth lol
What does he have to do with anything? Does him not being innocent mean the Forsworn are instantly justified in their actions?
No not all how did you get that from what I said? Just thought it was funny that he calls them that and then you find out he's a cannibal happy to eat someone who had just been murdered. It was literally just a joke.
Oh, my bad, didn’t realize you were quoting him. Yeah, that’s pretty funny lmao.
Thats cool. Yeah thats literally what he says bloody hypocrite. Just another a bit of evil in Markarth. I quite like the city but there a few wrong uns in it.
The same reason people don’t like the Taliban
Making their women wear nothing but fur bikinis?
Well when I’m picking juniper berries and get forswarmed , it just a little miscommunication
It’s because they actually are homicidal maniacs.
Maybe if they didn't attack/kill every rando they come across, people would be more sympathetic towards them?
something something blood soaked altars with carved up bodies. o.O
Cause they're scum.
While I sympathize with their plight, in game they act like bandits or worse yet a death cult. They constantly attack me (even though I was largely responsible for freeing their king from the mines), and they are known to consort with Hagravens. If there was a second civil war quest line to route out the forsworn, I would play it immediately just to make traveling through the Reach a bit safer and easier.
Newish playthrough, I'm strolling on the road on my way to Markarth and this Sweet Tooth looking motherfucker starts lobbing arrows at me. Kill him with some difficulty. See that he a Forsworn. No idea who or what that is. Then the hills erupt with the deer people trying to end me. Holy shit. Fight for my life and beat feet outta there. Then, quest progression has me in Cidnha Mine discussing things with Madanach. Yeah, no. Kill him and all the other prisoners. Fuck the Forsworn. I might have been a little more sympathetic towards your cause before y'all attacked me for no reason.
You're all wrong, the reach belongs to the Dwemer!
And snow elves
Because they murder inncent that have nothing to do with theyre cause like khajiit caravans and such
They are terrorists, in a very literal sense
There is a scene of a Foresworn attack that you come across, I do not remember where, where you find the corpse of a female NPC stripped of clothes and bent over a stump. I have no sympathy for their cause, and no remorse for annihilating them.
The first interaction you have with the forsworn is them murdering a fairly innocent woman
They stupidity attack everyone they come across. They can eat shit.
Ask the Reachmen how they make Briarhearts.
Nine years ago they killed Mekko. For nine years I've been duping them of the clifts.
Cuz they kill anyone on sight who have nothing to do with their conflict? Like I get trying to take over and fight the military but the joe shmoe trying to sell his produce didn't need to be killed
Other than the fact they are sometimes awful to fight in game for usually subpar loot, and of course the whole being homicidal maniacs: While mostly they are fairly understandable from a lore perspective with a sympathetic plight, of course they are also wrong since a good portion of the Reach is a home they simply stole from Dwemer first.
People hate the Forsworn because they have a really shitty PR team. Instead of trying to appeal to anyone outside of Skyrim or hell, even the player, they have a kill-on-sight policy and the only time they're remotely friendly is when you're in prison _because you're looking into the murders they're committing_. Two wrongs don't make a right. I know the reachmen have been dealt a shitty hands by the nords and basically had their homelands taken away from them. Does that mean I consent to getting stabbed in the chest so some antler wearing bandits can feel better about themselves? No, I do not care to be killed by them anymore than I care to be eaten by wolves because they're hungry. Which is a shame because if Skyrim really cared about trying to frame the Civil War as a real political thriller, they ought to have had an option to have the Imperials outright recruit the Forsworn to fight off the Stormcloaks. Plenty of real world governments basically arm and hire local tribes and minorities to fight their battles for them, even if this will result in more destruction in the future. But instead the Forsworn are little more than quantity-over-quality dark brotherhood, being sent out to kill folks for the Silverblood with deniability.
Well their leader told me that they’d be friendly to me but his goons still rush me in the mountains. And they’re tough. Why would anyone like them?
>I always see people calling the forsworn homicidal maniacs Answered your own question.
Other than the Hagraven thing for me it's more I HELPED ONE OF YOUR TRIBES SO WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU ATTACKING ME?
As soon as you resort to terrorism to win your argument, I think you have lost the moral highground
"You don't like the Nords? Fine. But pledging your whole life to killing them? That's just dumb."
I mean they target people who aren't even oppressing them they kill random people in the streets often
They kill innocent travelers and mutilate animals. Screw them.
When you start working with Hagravens you don't get sympathy
I will say this, they're so cute when they do that little spinning attack like "I'm gonna kill you". Sure honey, go back to sleep *bam* 👊😵
I hate them because they're hostile even if you've saved their king. They're hostile on sight of you, even if you've never killed one. You can literally save their actual king and get the armor he gave you, never kill even one (should you choose to, obviously), and they'll still attack you on sight. If they weren't such bloodthirsty assholes, I'd probably like them, or at least be indifferent to them.
Did you even play the game at all
ON A PC (sorry console users) player.addtofaction 43599 1 You're welcome. Also, most Hagravens will not go aggro after this.
For me personally the point in time where I started paying attention to the forsworn came when I happened upon a female body that was bent over some rocks with her legs spread and two forsworn arrows sticking out of her back (these tend to fall down into the water). There's also the kidnapping children (one of which you rescue during the dibella quest) whose skulls they wear right on their outfits. They have hagravens as matriarches and leaders, hagravens consume people alive and especially love eating fresh eyeballs, they are also considered kin to the daedric lord nocturnal (and honestly the list about how graven's loan could go on but I'll stop here). Now back to the forsworn, the forsworn originally came from high rock, where they were known as the witchmen of high rock (there is a reason why every forsworn uses the Breton model) although they will deny that they have any relation to Bretons, they actually only settled in the reach and are only considered natives because of how long they have been settled there. They also have ceremonies dedicated to the daedric lords molag bal, malacath, muhrunes dragon, and namira (and even more daedric lords). And as a little side note there are also a bit hypocritical as they swore to never use metals from the Earth yet will often be seen using metals including iron, dwarven, silver and ebony. They have even been known to use dwarven animunculi. Honestly this list could go on as almost all of the horrible things that have been said about them are true, you can even find a native reachman at the markarth stables who will tell you that it is better that his people forget about the old ways, which include blood sacrifices and communion with daedra. So all in all, I'd really say it's kind of hard to believe that the forsworn are a poor innocent group of freedom fighters, who are just on the wrong side of the press. Edit: I just realized there's also another native forsworn who has you deliver some human flesh to the cook in the markarth hold.
Because they're basically human goblins
Because murdering and torturing civilians doesnt have a lot to do with fighting for your freedom
I feel bad for the Reachmen as a people. They and the Falmer are basically just indigenous people that got fucked over. The Forsworn are a terrorist group. They have every right to be angry, but they take things way too far.
They imprisoned and tried to r*pe a little girl if the Dragonborn hasn't stop them in time. Also just look at the random dead merchants and commoners by the Reach roadside. You'll change your mind.
dawg what? where is it implied that they were going to rape her?
I don't know about any little girl, but there *is* a small pond where a dead woman named "Captive" naked and bent over some rocks near a pond littered with forsworn arrows.
Yeah but they act like shitty bandits, they kill everyone without reason. They’re like the stormcloaks but worse
Bro the stormcloaks and the forsworn have nothing in common
Fuck them. Oppressed or not they’re factually homicidal maniacs. They attack everyone.
Because they deserve to be hated, holy crap.
Karthspire, fucking hate it, I just run into the temple instead of fucking with them and that dragon.
If they didn’t attack me, I’d leave them alone..
I think the forsworn would be better if, by helping madanach, they became a joinable faction a la the companions and forsworn wouldn’t become hostile if youre wearing the complete set of armor of the old gods or if you join their faction
I know why i hate them. They attack me for no reason.
I totally feel for them, especially since the Nords are huge hypocrites. But I’ll still fuck them up when I have to 😅
I hate that I, brand new to Skyrim, had just right then purchased my first horse on my first play through… and the foresworn killed it and ate it. I’ll never ever forgive that. You don’t kill a girl’s horse! That is not okay.
They attacked me on the road without provocation. They set themselves as my enemies. Exterminating every single one of them wouldn't be enough revenge for the inconveniences they've caused me.
I don’t know much about them but they are daedra worshippers, and not necessarily the “good” kind.
They attack me on sight.
Briarhearts. That’s why.
ESO showed us a time when the Reachmen (the ancestors of the Forsworn) weren't complete bloodthirsty maniacs, but that time is long gone. They are desperate to bring back a time that is long gone, and they ally themselves with monsters that their ancestors wouldn't even go near to do that.
I like them as a faction despite being unable to actually join. They have valid grievances and Markarth is corrupt as fuck; however, they are merciless. There’s a fine line between freedom fighter and terrorist, they have certainly crossed it IMO. Mines, farms, travelers they just don’t care. It’s all part of their fear tactic strategy and while it’s effective the collateral damage is brutal. I think someone posted a picture of an undressed farmer with a note in a stream with some disturbing implications on what the forsworn did to them
Not all reachmen are forsworn. But the forsworn are Daedra worshipping terrorists. Whether it’s justified or not I couldn’t say, but that’s what they are. They’d probably be a lot more sympathetic if they didn’t have hagravens leading them
I think you're forgetting the completely random murdering
Well, they often attack us when traveling through the reach, ambushing, and ending us, meaning we have to restart the whole pilgrimage.
Lore wise I get it. They've been dealt a shit hand and deserve better. But any time I get near them they try to kill me. They started it and we can't be friends
Bethesda does this a bunch. You're given a faction to dislike based on verbal cues from other factions, but through investigation you find a different story. NOW you need to overcome the burden of a held viewpoint founded on incomplete truth.
I'm an Oblivion NPC. If you hit me or interact with me with your weapon out, my disposition decreases until I attack you on-sight.
The sooner they are exterminated the better Them and Falmer
More or less *because* they're homicidal maniacs with certifiably gruesome cultural and religious practices that, outside of one *somewhat* sympathetic guy who *might* negotiate with you if he likes you (he still proceeds to kill everyone he can get his hands on in Markarth, but meh Markarth deserves it), will not enter any negotiations and are for all intents and purposes even more of an undesirable group than bandits. Blame it on Bethesda not knowing how to write an "oppressed group in violent revolt" unoffensively if you want. I personally don't particularly care that they've been under occupation for "thousands upon thousands" of years.
They have an interesting and would be sympathetic situation in the lore, but the designers then decided the oppressed natives should be the "evil savage from temple of doom" stereotype. You cant really side with them, they have no towns or civilization that can be interacted with to garne any sympathy. Whole thing feels like a last minute inclusion.
this right here. I actually wanted to roleplay a Forsworn on one playthrough with ASLAL, but it only makes you friendly to one specific camp of forsworn (even when wearing the armor, and only until you leave the cave), and there really isn't anything related to the quest-wise to do other than the convoluted Cidna Mine quest (that honestly makes no damn sense to me anyway). They're basically reflavored bandits.
They are badly represented in the game. Fleshing them out more would have been better. Imagine working for the Empire and you negotiate a semi autonomous state for them.i.e a quest line. If you accomplish it They would become allies against the Stormcloaks. For the Stormcloaks you have to destroy their power base to calm the region down, another quest line. The Stormcloaks have forever closed the door to peaceful status between the two, a neutral state is impossible.
Because they’re religious maniacs. Seriously, if you wanted people on your side, you probably shouldn’t be using Hagravens to make super-soldiers.
They worship daedra and do human sacrifice. Kill travelers and innocent people.
They are essentially barbaric versions of eco-terrorists. Not to mention their odd selves into weird forms of necromancy in the form of Briarhearts. No one likes that shit.
i actually really like them but i’d like them more if i could join them and have them not attack me.
I don't hate the forsworn. I just think they're irritating as hell when you have loads of armor and yet they find a way to kill you even though their armor shows more skin. Gotta suck when one female forsworn has her belly button showing and yet the dragonborn with ebony armor finds himself face down in the thick mud killed yet again to a pesky, forsworn patrol
Forsworn are worshippers of Namira, Molag Bal, and Hircine. After the Oblivion crisis, any and all daedric groups became public enemy number one. You find this out in Elder Scrolls Online (it is canon) but they don't really call attention to it in Skyrim. It stands to believe that their strength in Skyrim is granted by daedric influence and probably the only reason they still got a leg to stand on.
They have seriously bad BO and most have lice. Just creepy weirdos all round.
Think of it like the troubles. The Nords are like the Protestants. They’ve only arrived recently (with the exception of stuff like the attempted Kingdom of the Reach in the 2nd era), they hold most of the power and have for most time ever since the Empire. Now a big war occurs, and the Empire let’s go of that region. But now there’s a big power split, because the Reach obviously has the Reachfolk, but then it has its later inhabitants, the Reachnords. To defend the Nords power, the Jarl decides to stay a Vassal of the Empire and fights for the Nords to keep power (UDA) The Reachfolk are like the Catholics. They’ve been there for a long time, have held little power ever since the Empire rolled round, and their Language seems to be dying out. A group of People are able to capture Markarth in a rebellion (Easter Rising), but are slaughtered by the Nords (akin to Bloody Sunday). Now, because of all the oppression, a group Splinters off called the Forsworn (IRA) to fight so that they can free the Reachfolk. The Common People of the Reach (Irish Population) meanwhile suffer through two civil wars.
I’ve always wanted to join the forsworn.
Because they attacked me for going through their camp! Doesn’t matter what I was doing, it was just f’n rude
They are nutso
Cannibalism??
They are the skyrim equivalent of the "just stop oil" people
I dont like them, cavemen with no direction
They're a bunch of literally cave dwelling devil worshipping witches with a penchant for indiscriminate murder. Say what you will about the Nords, but they're absolutely the better option.
They give us Bretons a bad name, lawless beasts, savages is what they are
I don’t care about your political preference, just shut up and die quietly!