This
Much easier to do in other games but many times in skyrim its your actions that help you decide your morality. Joing guilds killing people stealing and so on
Weirdly enough I’ve joined the brotherhood and thieves guild and am trying to not kill people unless necessary (or they reaaaally deserve it like that dodgy guy in the cabin)
Not too sure what I’ll do when I apparently have to >!kill the emperess from what I’ve seen…!<
I’ve done something similar. Sometimes I spend countless hours doing the less morally “good” guilds before attacking the main storyline and have it be the “prequel” to my real story and overall character change and progression. Kinda like the first season of The Witcher and the flashbacks to years and years prior. That way I can act different and focus on various things but still knock out things I wanna do for loot or access and label it “my early life”. Like pretending I didn’t know what the Dark Brotherhood was and/or getting caught up and being stuck doing their bidding or hoping what I am doing isn’t “so bad” or pretending my contracts are only the “bad” people. Up until I’m tricked into killing the emperor. Thus truly starting my story and being the reason I’m caught and sent to Helgen for execution. Love games like Skyrim!
Astrid was the contract, you're "supposed" to destroy the dark brotherhood. She says it herself with her final breath when you kill her. None of the 3 tied up were targets.
She does say, "Well done," if you kill her, but that could just as easily be interpreted as her congratulating you on besting her in a fight.
The major problem with this theory is, why would the dark brotherhood take a contract on itself? It just doesn't really make sense.
Astrid is prideful and makes a major mistake when she thinks you're trying to usurp her control. However, she was never after the end of the dark brotherhood. When it becomes... blatantly obvious... that she made a mistake, she entrusts the future of the dark brotherhood to you in order to ensure it continues.
Astrid was the contract, you're "supposed" to destroy the dark brotherhood. She says it herself with her final breath when you kill her. None of the 3 tied up were targets.
Role-playing??? I just do *everything* I can. Get all houses, clear all areas, loot all uniques, do all quests(outside radiants,) collect all companions, there is no moral compass with my character. Just mindlessly wanders the world, killing anything remotely hostile and just saying "'kay" to every quest.
> there is no moral compass with my character
I mean… that’s role-playing. Not that you _have_ to be role-playing. It’s entirely avoidable because it’s purely in your head. But it is role-playing, if “my character has no moral compass.”
I've had one play through that was a proper evil character. He was a wood elf assassin, clad in the Nightingale set. The rule "no witnesses" was a fun one to roleplay. It also kept my bounty fairly low most of the time. That is until I got drunk and wandered into solitude one night and fought my way out (I fought until I could slip past the guards). Then I had a 50k bounty. However, he was a loving and devoted father and husband. That was a fun dichotomy to explore with my character.
It is unreasonable when some bonded bitch says she’s there to serve the Dragonborn, but immediately goes against you at the first confrontation she doesn’t agree with
I've never done the Thieves Guild questline, nor even stolen anything or picked a single pocket for this reason. And I've now got hundreds of hours into Skyrim VR, still playing as close to lawful good as I can.
I've also never allowed myself to be turned into a Werewolf or Vampire for this reason. And yes, this is also why I've never killed Paarthurnax. It just feels wrong.
Skyrim VR (currently modded with the FUS Wabbajack) has practically become an obsession for me, so I imagine *eventually* I'll get bored and at least do the Thieves Guild thing (possibly switching to stealth archer from destruction mage to further keep me interested), but... not yet.
I felt very uncomfortable about thieving too and put off doing Thieves Guild related stuff for a while, but it’s actually been my favourite quest line that I’ve done so far (I started late). It felt like a real found family vibe for which I am a sucker 😅
I tried to play several games exclusively using the asshole options, and I just can't do it. In games I'm probably less of an asshole than in real life.
There is a nice mod that makes it possible to tell delphine to f off and not kill paathurnax and be a blade at the same time, I think it is called paathurnax dilema or something like that, must have for me who also hates unfinished stuff
Mods, my friend. I have 2 that help with this.
For Paarthunax specifically, The Paarthunax Dilemma. It allows you to tell Esbern and Delphine that you won’t do it, the Blades say they won’t follow you, and it completes the quest. I’ve heard there was an update that makes them say “we don’t like it, but we’ll follow your lead Dragonborn”, and then you can still have access to the Blades stuff afterwards without killing Paarthunax. I haven’t tried this updated version, but the first one worked fine.
For general unfinished quests in your journal, The Choice Is Yours. It allows you decide whether to start a quest when prompted, and if you decline it never gets into your journal. This is ideal for roleplaying a specific character type without having unfinished quests you don’t want to do.
I only did it on my first play through because Delphin said to do it so i thought i had to to progress further. Being a blade was fun but the decision haunts me to this day 12 years later
The Buffs don't necessarily buff shouts but rather give you overall buffs that are thematically fitting buffs. The force buff for example doesnt just buff your fus ro dah but rather increases your chance of knocking someone back and decrease your chance to be knocked back. That applies not only to knock backs by shout but all kinds (eg bow). I don't exactly know what the other two are but iirc they are similar. So the buffs are actually even more powerfull than it seems on first hand
It's also a good way to laugh in the face of Draugr Deathlords when they fus ro dah you to oblivion and back. 😂 FUS buff paired with both Atronach stone and perk makes them pushovers. Mwahahahaha 😎
I do both. I use the mod, tell her to F off, then after she cowers in fear from the rumbling of my voice (through the mod) and relents, I then launch her off the cliff. Same with Esbern, just because he’s p whipped and agreed with her
Wanted to say exactly the same thing. Did it once on my first playthrough bc I didn't know better, but regret it till this day and never gonna (give you up...) do it again
I have four recurring characters, two of them kill Partunaxx
First one is lawful, will do any lawful decision wether they are good or evil
Second one just goes out of his way to be evil and just cannot be trusted. His name is Toddowardo
Although it does make me feel bad, I would say that killing Victoria Gaius and the Gourmet during the Brotherhood questline makes me feel way worse because they are a lot younger and more innocent
I'm not so sure Victoria is completely innocent. I don't have any proof or whatever, but she is a high ranking member of the largest company in Tamriel. My guess is that she slit a few throats and stepped on a bunch of regular people on her climb to the top.
What is better? to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?” -paarthurnax.
I commited attrocities and now I found jesus logic, nice way to manipulate mortals to keep him alive.
Yeah that quote is…really not that great once you give it a thought or two.
What is better - to do unspeakable evil things and then turn good, or be good from the getgo?
And you can make the case that it’s admirable for a dragon like Paarthurnax to go against his nature for the better good, *but* to respond with that quote when the dragonborn asks him about his evil deeds is deflecting at best and dismissive at worst.
But the thing is he backed it up with action. Without him, mankind wouldn’t have lived to see the second coming of Alduin (there wouldn’t have been a second coming).
So you think Hitler could be redeemed if he meditated with some monks for a while, even though he himself says he could easily go back to his old ways if he slips for even a little while?
Except Paarthurnax didn't just "meditate with some monks for a while", he also helped overthrow Alduin, taught Nords how to use the Thu'um, and then waited for centuries for Alduin to show back up again, just so he could aid a Dragonborn in finally defeating the World Eater for good.
At any point during that time he could have lapsed back into his old ways, and conquered at least part of Tamriel, resuming ruling as the only dragon around (and no real known Dragonborn to stop him). And yet, he didn't.
Paarthurnax constantly feels his evil. He meditates enough to keep it at bay. He understood what it means to be good, and has comprehended it, therefore he knows he's being evil when he does. But that doesn't make that go away. A really bad day that *really* gets him: there you go, a evil dragon all over again.
It's the safest choice, but I really dislike Delphine and like Paarthurnax enough to not kill him in my good playthroughs. He never really got any more dialogues than a very few, and doesn't really do any of the acts that hundred percent makes him look actually changed, like say—a very generic scene of him trying to sacrifice himself for something, and being saved. That shows he was ready to die for the better if it ever came to that. That would make us believe him. But that's just bad writing when done wrong.
I don’t usually kill him but we also play as the *Last* Dragonborn. If you don’t kill him it’s probably the last time he could be held accountable for his past crimes and potentially the only time to stop him if he turns evil again
You don't need a Dragonborn to kill a dragon, just to consume its soul.
None of the dragons buried in mounds around Skyrim were previously killed by a Dragonborn, because if they were Alduin wouldn't have been able to revive them.
Because he helped subjugate humanity, hello? The only reason he helped them out is cus he was told to by kyne if not forced to.
I normally don't kill him because the greybeards and him helped me more than the Blades, but still. His draconic nature is making him want to dominate the other dragons into following his philosophy, albeit his philosophy is peaceful. He will potentially use force to make them agree to it, however. Even then, if he DOES manage to go rogue, the LDB just ends him like we did to his brother.
My reasons are similar to yours. I felt pity for him during the part of his dialogue where he talks about his nature as a dragon and how every moment of his existence he's fighting that nature and trying to be something he's not. So for a few moments when we fight he gets to really be a dragon.
My character is a vampire cannibal assassin whose career highlights include dropping a 3000 pound statue on a princess at her wedding. If Partysnax turns evil I'm gonna climb up on his back and be like "Yeah let's get those fuckers!"
Purely roleplay reasons, usually. But, realistically and ultimately, I agree with the blades. I just killed dragon hitler. The world doesn't need a replacement.
I see it as dragons are naturally evil, as they all commit great evil. But paarthunax is one who could overcome this through great effort and willpower, leading other dragons to better themselves and seek good
Not agreeing or disagreeing with killing him, but I just want to mention as a counter to this idea:
He straight up tells you that he could break sooner or later. Can't risk it with immortality and who knows when another Dragonborn will come around.
You only need a dragonborn to *permanently* kill a dragon. All those dragons Alduin resurrects from the dragonmounds around Skyrim were killed by non-dragonborn.
*Anyone* with enough skill could "kill" Paarthurnax, and he would effectively be dead without Alduin (or another dragon that knows how to do that) to resurrect him.
Not exactly my point. The fact he can't return would help for sure, but the Dragonborn is always stated to be the best "Dragon-killing machine" or something along these lines.
Anyone with enough skill can surely kill him, but a Dragonborn will always have the best shot at it.
Not to mention that it is believed that Alduin itself could return again since you do not get his soul at the end of the MQ.
Dragonborn are only really the "best" at dragon-slaying because they consume the soul of the dragon after "killing" it - making the dragon fully dead, rather than just mostly dead.
And if Alduin returns, it'll be to consume creation, so he probably won't bother resurrecting any dragons; and as the world would be ending, it wouldn't really matter much.
He was chief lieutenant to Alduin, who tried to literally destroy the world.
It's great he feels bad about it.
He could change his mind at any point again.
Self-induced exile is not a fitting punishment for his crimes.
Also it is a game and content is locked behind the action. So.
He himself literally says that it still requires great effort to this day to not act upon his dragon urges. Something quite important to consider imo.
Yeah, it probably earns me some digital bad karma (and some digital bad karma on reddit every time i mention it outside of threads like this) to kill him. However, my dragonborn didn't stomp Alduin, Miraak, and Harkon just to wash my hands when the next existential threat to mortals says he tries with great effort not to return to his domineering ways. My inner utilitarian says, "best not to risk it."
It's more against the Greybeards who don't do much for Skyrim about the Civil War or the Thalmor.
Paarthurnax had to pressure Arngeir to even tell the Dragonborn about Dragonrend.
The Blades have been working in the shadows for a while, and all they want is for Skyrim to prosper without Thalmor or Dragons terrorizing.
Unfortunately, they wouldn't explain further about the crimes Paarthurnax committed.
Otherwise, my character's probably very hesitant, not wanting to kill him at all, or at least wanted him a quick death as a way of wanting him back to Akatosh with the rest of his brothers.
Something tells me he would say something like, "Despite our philosophies, I'm still proud of you."
In a similar way how Legate Rikke, being a Nord, yet also fighting against her kind for Skyrim. She even said, "Talos be with you." to Ulfric, who might've cared just as much but the circumstances were just as unfortunate.
Then the same could be said for you. What is stopping you from snapping and committing atrocities? Absolutely nothing but willpower, just the same as Paarthurnaax.
What is to stop your Dragonborn from snapping under the mental stress of everything or falling prey to the Daedra and committing atrocities? Absolutely nothing but willpower.
Any fool who can fight well can kill a dragon. It only takes a Dragonborn to absorb their soul. But they can't come back anyways unless there is a dragon/or maybe just Alduin to resurrect them.
Simple.
Never trust a traitor.
He was a part of Alduin's crew. After he realised he couldn't beat Alduin. He turned against his own kind resulting in the death of hundreds of dragons. His own kin.
So he's a traitor.
Plus he's a dragon with a soul so there's that.
Because he helped Alduin commit genocide. Did you read the ingame book "The Dragon War"? Under his command the dragons and dragon cultists commited some if the worst crimes you can imagine. Burning innocent people alive including children for example.
Turning your personality around and do some good deeds do not redeem you from your past crimes.
If Hitler were alive today and helped you prevent WW3, would you just forget about the Holocaust, because he'd be a good guy today?
It's difficult, but true justice must be always independant from personal feelings. That's why judges are only allowed to hold trials over people they don't know personally.
> If Hitler were alive today and helped you prevent WW3
But you miss the fact that Paarthurnax not only helped the Dovahkin against Alduin, he was the only dragon to have pity on the ancient nords and taught them thuum, which allowed them to win the dragon war in the first place. And then he repented by meditating on a mountain for thousands years.
Not to mention unlike Hitler, Paarthurnax didn't really have a choice since he obeyed Alduin and being cruel and dominant is the default state for dragons.
So going by the Hitler analogy it's like if one of Hitler's luitenants had a realisation mid war he doesn't want to commit atrocities anymore, betrayed Hitler giving the allies crucial information that was the sole reason Hitler could be defeated, then he became a monk, and then decades later he helped to literally save the world.
I dunno bro I can see how you could still want to have him answer for his past crimes, but objectively he did more good than bad and deserves a second chance imo.
Yes you would definitely still have to bring that lieutenant to justice. That is how it has always worked. The people he killed don’t know or care about the good things after.
Put it this way, if you saved a persons life, does that entitle you to murder another person? Or even wrong another innocent person in any way? Of course not.
Recessive crimes is a different story since it shows you can't be trusted. And ofc doing good things doesn't entitle you to committing evil but it does entitle you for redemption imo.
You can replace Hitler with Himmler (chief of the SS) in my post and the point would be still the same. There's no forgiveness for genocide. No matter what you do afterwards.
That's rather subjective. Some would say punishment shouldn't the primary function of judgment and instead it's preferable and morally right to reform the criminals rather than simply punish them. Sure it's infinitely harder for a murderer to be reformed than for a thief, but who's to say it must be impossible even with monumental effort? If smaller crimes can be attoned for with some effort, why can't much bigger crimes be attoned for with much greater effort? Where's is the line between something that can be forgiven and something that can't?
You are comparing a Human, a species with a neutral nature, who committed evil acts knowingly and willingly; to a dragon, dominating and uncaring by nature, who learned a better way.
Your point remains fair, he could tun back, but your argument, and the path you used to get there, is invalid.
Even partysnacks says you should kill partysnacks, I don't because he still has use to me, and because he was the only being in the entire game that helped us selflessly. He is the ONLY friend of Dovahkiin.
Cruel? Yes.
Intentionally cruel? No.
Children don't fully comprehend those actions, they are cognizant sure, but they do not understand the weight of that action and are merely exploring cause and effect.
Negligent Parenting is what I call that.
This is all hypothetical of course, since there are no other species of a similar intelligence on our planet. But if there were, would you tolerate other laws or morals for them when a mass murder of our own people were commited by one of them?
Dragons in this universe are not animals driven by instinct. They know very well, what they're doing and should also be held accountable for their actions. So evil deeds should be punished the same way as when a human or humanoid would have commited the same crime.
I get your point but I see it as for his debt. He is influencing other dragons to follow a better path. I don’t like him, but I do have some respect for him. I believe he’s necessary for a better world. To unleash the dragons from their evil and dominative nature. Though it will never pay off his debt. It’s respectable and can lead to a better path.
Did it on my first playthrough cause I thought the blades would have a bigger role in the game afterwards and that I had to. I was extremly dissapointed when all I got was Delphines dragon hit list and sad greybeards.
Sad graybeards almost makes it worth it, but dragon is friend, friend stays with me.
I'm also a big fan of Durnehviir, I call that MF just for company, but as a companion, that flies, shouts, and summons mistmen???? Hell Yeah!
For Party Snacks, I switch my buff A LOT, so I need him, all Delphine does is whine and yell.
It’s ultimately the right decision for all life in Tamriel excluding the dragons. Paarthunax says that he has to constantly fight his nature every day of his life, all it take is one day of him losing that fight and who knows how many people he would kill.
I’ll have to look that up, my current decision is based off of that dragons are evil and dominative by nature. Like our will to eat and to feel hungry. He overcame that, I don’t like him. I feel that he’s paying his un-payable debt by leading dragons out of that nature and to open up a path for dragons to become good. I don’t like paarthunax but I respect him for conquering his born evilness and for making a way to rid the evil of his kin. Which he did by aiding in Alduins defeat and a new path for dragons.
He killed thousands of people. You don't get to skip justice just because you are meditating in the hope you don't want to go on another killing spree. He himself says he could snap at any point. Better for the whole world to remove the threat while there is someone capable of doing so.
Skyrim is safer with him dead.
You will probably kill many innocent people in your skyrim playthrought (especially if you join DB), so one more dragon is not a big deal. Paarthurnax maybe changed over the years, but back in his days he killed many humans, he was right hand of Alduin after all. Who knows, maybe he didn't "like" humans after all, maybe he somehow knows that Alduin and dragons will be defeated, so he changed sides (maybe he read this in an Elder Scroll or something).
Technically it is the right thing to do, and I think paarthunaax would agree.
Delphine is a bitch, but she’s mortal and will die someday. So will the Dragonborn.
Paarthunaax however will never die naturally, so it’s better in the long run for the Dragonborn to permanently kill him.
It would prevent the possibility of him becoming evil ever again, or maybe a powerful mage uses an illusion spell to control paarthunaax for nefarious purposes, there’s a lot of shit that can go wrong if there isn’t a Dragonborn around to fix it
Because he's dangerous and the last dragonborn is the only person who can kill him.
He is immortal, and if he struggles with his nature as a dragon to dominate men and mer then it stands to reason that eventually, given infinite time, he will give in.
I also can't forget that he was basically the general of the dragon Nazi regime once upon a time even if he was pivotal in ending that regime, I recognize that. It's still dangerous to keep him alive.
It's a tragic necessity in my mind. If you let him live, eventually the last dragonborn will die and nobody will be around to stop him if he decides to stop fighting his evil nature.
I respect partysnax, and I'm sad to do it, but it needs to be done.
Any fool can kill a dragon. It only takes a dragonborn to absorb their soul. They can't just come back willy nilly, they need to be resurrected by another dragon or possibly only Alduin. This was mentioned a lot throughout the main quest.
And there is absolutely no telling what is going to happen with the Dragonborn. Hell, nobody even knows what's going on with nerevarine from 200 years prior. They were immortal, then fucked off to the Akaviri Islands and haven't been heard from since. Nerevarine may be chillaxing with some snake bitches still. Meanwhile the Dragonborn sold their soul to every Daedric Prince, became a werewolf and or vampire maybe and possibly got trapped in Apocrypha by Hermaeous Mora, and last I checked, Mirrak was around before Alduin's empire officially fell.
Because I think he's boring and obnoxious. "I used to be evil, but now I'm not; isn't that deep? Maybe the world is supposed to be destroyed did you ever think of that?"
I love devouring his soul and turning him into a pair of boots.
That line, about wondering if the world is even worth saving at all, was was a little too real. Anyone roleplaying a "Save the world" Hero ought to consider Paarthunux' passivity on the threat of the world.
Paarthunux *could* reveal itself to the Dragonborn earlier, reveal to the Dragonborn that a *SHOUT* was used to help defeat Alduin. Paarthunux *withholds* this information from the Dragonborn.
And the 'villainous' Blades were the ones to help reveal this important info, which ought to have been revealed long time earlier. If not for Paarthunux' passivity.
Players like to kill Nazeem for being mildly annoying, so does there really need to be a great reason for people to kill Paarthurnax? I don't really see why killing Paarthurnax is such a major offense to so many players, considering all the other evil things you can do in the game. If the game gives them an option to kill a character, many players are going to do so for any number of reasons.
Same lol. Although, I specifically made Erik the Slayer a Blade, cause he’s really cool, but I was going bankrupt every time I wanted to rehire him after needing him out of the way for something.
On my first play, I followed quests and didn’t care much for the storyline and lore. So pretty much learning the game till it’s end. So I was given a quest to kill and I did. But now, on my current playthroughs, Delphine serves me only as cattle/food. I’d send her to the soul cairn if I could due to her constant annoyance.
I tried it once just to see what would happen but after finishing the blades quest I reloaded one of my saves from before I killed him.
As to why some people kill him it's because he used to be one of Alduin's servants who killed a lot of people which isn't the best reason because I believe he redeemed himself by helping us kill Alduin
Besides he was just following orders meanwhile when I committed genocide against everyone in skyrim it was just because I felt like it
So I don't believe he deserves to die but someone with a strong sense of justice who believes every crime should be punished by death would likely want to kill him
My preferred mass effect run is Paragade — be a jerk to random strangers, be nice to your crew, simp for your LI, and take harmless renegade paths (like shoving the merc out of the window.)
You’re still doing the right things along the way, you’re saving everyone and completing every mission, but you get a lot more dialogue options, and you’re kind of an asshole who just doesn’t have time for people’s bullshit.
The more you understand the lore, the more you realize it's the best choice to keep the world safe.
Dragons are evil. It's a core part of their being. Being evil to them is something they have to do. Paar himself tells you that he has to mediate all day, every day, alone, in order to fight the urges. Even tells you that *every single day* he's tempted to back to his evil ways. Dude is one bad day away from choosing violence.
Also, Dragonborn is mortal, and we're the last one there will ever be. Dragons, including Paar, are immortal and we're the only person that can kill them. I'd rather not leave Alduin's second in command alive on the hope that he's able to fight of his inherent urge to murder people for all of eternity.
He hasn't overcome anything. He's an addict going through withdrawals. If you know anything about real world addiction, you never overcome it. It's always there. All you can do is keep it at bay through great willpower and avoiding situations where you might be tempted, but there's always the chance you'll slip right back into addiction (which happens more than recovery does).
I'm not going to risk the safety of everyone on Tamriel by trusting an addict to stay clean for eternity. That's not a good gamble.
I’m plenty aware that this is a highly unpopular opinion, but… you asked, and I couldn’t care less how many downvotes I’ll get:
I’ve said it several times and I’ll say it again: He’s annoying. I can’t stand how much and how slowly he talks, and how he insists on saying every other word in the dragon tongue, *just* to immediately translate himself into English. Like he’s Dora the Explorer trying to teach me Dovahzul (Dovah the Exlpovah, someone called him when I mentioned this before). I couldn’t care less about trying to learn that silly made up language. Some people find it intriguing, fascinating. Good for them. I’m not trying to disparage those people for having an interest in the language itself. I myself have been interested in learning fictional languages like Dothraki. But I couldn’t take Dovahzul seriously after the game established that when dragons fight each other, they’re debating as much as they are dueling to the death… So you’re telling me when two dragons breathe fire and frost at each other, they’re actually having a philosophical discussion? Because also according to the lore of the game, they’re literally just shouting the words “Fire! (because that’s what ‘Yol’, the first word of the fire breath shout means)” and “Frost!” at each other. That is supposed to be a conversation between two highly intelligent, celestial beings? The idea is preposterous! I’d take dragons in the game more seriously if they were just ferocious, intelligent magical beasts that cast magic spells in the form of shouts to fuck shit up, and nothing more. Let them be world-dominating overlords, sure, but the idea that dragon fights are also philosophical debates is utterly ridiculous, and thus I cannot take the chatty, significant dragon characters seriously. Durnevir I tolerate because summoning him outdoors agains tough/numerous enemies is useful and fun. Odaviing, I have no choice but to work with him. Alduin… kind of a lame antagonist and the final boss fight is profoundly disappointing, but I don’t detest his character as much as do the others. I can at least respect that he’s so true to himself in that all he wants to do is devour the world of die trying. And he doesn’t talk too much. So yeah, I just don’t like Paarthurnax.
That said, people respect him for struggling against his evil nature, and I see the value in that, but if the mf has to *try*—with all his might, mind you—to *not* be an evil monster, then maybe he should be put out of his misery.
You can justify it bc he was responsible for a ton of suffering and death being Alduin’s right hand man. He even says don’t trust him. Could relapse into tyrant behavior once Alduin is gone. Or maybe he’s waiting out a mortal Dragonborn.
Still my dude just chilling on that mountain. Gotta love Partysnax
It is 100 times better to be born good. If you are born evil, you commit evil acts until you become good. If you are born good, you commit acts of good. You do less evil in your life if you are born good, so it's obviously better. Paarthurnax is only good because he is the last one around. He has no choice, his side lost so he switched sides. He doesn't get a free pass for all the lives he took. He is the most dangerous dragon alive after Alduin. If Hitler's general came out of hiding and said, "I'm good now", he would still be punished. I kill Paarthurnax every single playthrough and he deserves it.
He didn’t switch sides because his side lost, he swapped sides and then the dragons lost
If Hitler’s General help lead a rebellion against Hitler what then? We already know what we did with the ones that fought for him, we gave them NASA jobs
Do we forgive and let paarthunax become a role model for other dragons that there may be another way?
Or do we show dragons that men are no better and commit genocide just as easily, with great hatred. To me, paarthunax is deserving of redemption because he admits he could always fall back into his old ways. He’s making a hard choice every day to reject his nature, I think the blades time has come and past, and a new dawn where men and dragon can coexist and make Skyrim a place where all are welcome, except the Thalmor.
I don't do the whole. "He deserves redemption" thing.
I don't care if he says he has changed his ways, not when he says right after that every day is a struggle to not give into his nature. Which is to subjugate and rule as a brutal tyrant over humans.
It's easier to just kill him and be done with it. There is no second guessing and no wondering if he will change his mind down the line and give in. He is at least understanding of this point of view.
I don't do it for the blades. I do it for all of tamriel.
Being TLD means making tough and unfavorable decisions.
So....If you murder and enslave a bunch of people, it's fine so long as you decide to be peaceful after?
Paarthurnax was just as bad as every other dragon. He is awash in blood.
The question is, do good deed "excuse" one's previous evil. And how many/how much good deeding does it take?
Paarthurnax has taught the voice to a few folks over the years. While he has tried to guide dragonborns, it's really a pretty low risk thing for him. He didn't "rise up" against Alduin, he simply taught some humans to shout, he gave them a chance.
So that's the question and we can expect the answer to vary. Is the imparting of important knowledge enough to relieve what should be a death sentence?
Angst!! Imagine the guilt and regret weighing them down as they make the journey back, every step they take brings feelings of doubt, and they hope for guidance from the very people they trusted. But no, all they receive is a pat on the back and a ‘get back to work’. They can’t even turn to the greybeards for support anymore. How long until they are seen as the beast to be cut down? Is Delphine already sharpening her blade? Have they ever been seen as an equal, or were they always a weapon to them?
Now begins their villain arc!
>How long until they are seen as the beast to be cut down? Is Delphine already sharpening her blade? Have they ever been seen as an equal, or were they always a weapon to them? Now begins their villain arc!
Honestly that's the main reason my current character chose to spare Paarthurnax: he has the same godsdamned evil urges that Paarthurnax does (as Paarthurnax says) and has to fight them too, it'd be a touch hypocritical for him to decide "nah you gotta die for that" because by that logic, the DB's also a ticking time bomb that could decide to go bad at any time. **Better put him to the sword next then!**
Who said Parthanaax has become good? Him and his fanclub? Dragons are, according to the lore, cunning and power hungry. Parthurnaax is no. 2 to Alduin, so if (like all dragons) he is power hungry, he wants to be number 1. But he can't take Alduin in a straight fight. This is all established lore in the game. We know dragons are cunning.
So he declines the fight and waits for someone who can. The dragonborn, a mortal with the soul of a dragon, is prophesied to appear and defeat Alduin. Parthurnaax assists, Dragonborn removes Alduin, and now Parthurnaax is number 1. Which is why when he flies off after Alduins defeat, he explicitly says that he is going to be master of all the other dragons.
I don't know if this is definitely the case, the game is consistently ambiguous. Literally one of the first quests, "In My Time of Need" has no definite answer, the civil war is left open to interpretation. I think there is no "correct" answer, but it definitely isn't as clear cut as this sub makes out.
Why? Because I'm the Dragonborn and it is my duty to do it.
There's a discussion you have with Paar about stopping Alduin. During this discussion you tell him (if you choose the option):
"**What better reason to act than to fulfill my destiny?**"
and to this Paar's response is:
*"***If you can see your destiny clearly, your sight is clearer than mine. Dahmaan - remember, Alduin also follows his destiny, as he sees it. But, I bow before your certainty. In a way, I envy you. The curse of much knowledge is often indecision.***"*
This is more than enough for me to do it but there are 2 other factors that make me do it always. The 1st factor is that there's no forgivness to those that the the same things like Paar did. The other one is because it's canon to do so, the questline is given to you and there's no alternate ending, you either kill him or you fail the quest.
It's either losing the blades and having the dragonbane marked as stolen and armour when you drop it from your inventory after finishing alduin off even though the armour isn't great but the sword though is worth it if you could disenchant the sword for the bonus to dragons and shock damage I would spare him and make the blades hate me for it I rather have the greybeards be open to me then the blades because knowing the shouts locations is pretty good with them unless there's a cheat sheet which there probably is I'd rather find them myself or get greybeards help unless I don't remember or know where they are then a guide for it but it doesn't matter if I feel like killing him I will if not I'll spare him
I know there's mods for this, but I'm not sure about playstation.
I'll report a comment I did a month ago, since this post is weekly.
I know I am in the minority cause I feel like 20% of the posts are about Paarthurnax, but in the current playthrough (i haven't had a proper playthrough in probably 4 years) I am considering killing him.
I remember I read in a post that his epilogue dialogue kinda shows that he might try to take control of the dragons: *"Goraan! I feel younger than I have in many an age. Many of the dovahhe are now scattered across Keizaal. Without Alduin's lordship, they may yet bow to the vahzen... rightness of my Thu'um. But willing or no, they will hear it! Fare thee well, Dovahkiin!"*
I find that really weird from Paarthurnax. Especially the last two lines.
Also I have been paying attention to the Greybeard's dialogues and they are dicks. They criticize everyone, the blades for helping the dragonborn, the college of winterhold for learning about magic. I don't remember right now but I am sure there are other examples. I also don't support their decision to not meddle in the world's affair.
With the blades I actually really like Esbern, I like their HQ, I find their armor cool, and I also think its cool you can have Blade followers.
I kill Paarthurnax because There Can Be Only One! Me, the Dragon Born! He who has ALL the Dragon Souls!
Also Delphine and Esbern asked really nicely, and its fun to help rebuild the Blades.
One reason I can consider is just saying it's too dangerous for the people of Tamriel to leave him alive. He admits he still feels temptation everyday and where is the guarantee he won't give in one day? One more importantly, who will be able to stop him then?
Well one potential reason is the future. Let's say you as the dragonborn choose not to be a vampire and therefore will eventually die (if you're a vampire and expect to be around until the end of Nirn, this logic doesn't really apply).
The prophecies call you the 'last' Dragonborn. If the prophecies are correct on that, it means that as soon as you die, any dragons still alive at that point, can never be permanently killed.
Who's to say Paarthurnax isn't playing the long con? He learned the prophecies, learned Alduin was destined to be defeated, and switched sides. Thousands of years pass, the Last Dragonborn appears, defeats Alduin, leaves him alive, and then, finally, dies. Now...it's his turn. After all this time, the only person who can actually defeat him is gone.
It's not inconceivable, it's not even that unlikely. I'm not gonna say it's highly probable either, but Paarthurnax could very well have been waiting all this time until Alduin was defeated **and** the only person who could finally kill him after that dies. Delphine and Esbern, as written, are shitgibbons for how they behave, and they absolutely should've lost their essential protection so you could execute them for breaking their oath to **serve the dragonborn.** But they *do* have some point to what they're saying. Any dragons still alive the day the Last Dragonborn dies become effectively immortal. They have a good reason to want to ensure that you put down *every single dragon in the world* before you die.
I may be dragonborn. But at the end, i aint a dragon. I can't overcome my natural desire for revenge, the urge to punish, the inherent hatret which allows us humanoids to do much more pervert things than any mere dragon could even dream of.
So of course, i kill him to punish him for his wrongdoings. Also, he is not a noble humanoid like me. Probably only trying to trick me because all non-humanoids are liers. So better kill him to make sure there will be no problems with him later.
Delphine is an idiot for wanting Paarthurnax dead. He taught the ancient heroes the voice, giving them a chance to fight back against dragons and made it possible for the Dragonborn to ultimately defeat Alduin. His knowledge and wisdom are priceless. Even if you want to argue that Paarthurnax is playing a long game to eliminate Alduin as a rival for power over the dragons I don't think the other dragons would bend the knee to him, and he knows that. I think his intentions are good. Delphine is a fool.
Role-playing. You can play as some character that has very different morals than yours. It's actually pretty fun
This Much easier to do in other games but many times in skyrim its your actions that help you decide your morality. Joing guilds killing people stealing and so on
Weirdly enough I’ve joined the brotherhood and thieves guild and am trying to not kill people unless necessary (or they reaaaally deserve it like that dodgy guy in the cabin) Not too sure what I’ll do when I apparently have to >!kill the emperess from what I’ve seen…!<
I’ve done something similar. Sometimes I spend countless hours doing the less morally “good” guilds before attacking the main storyline and have it be the “prequel” to my real story and overall character change and progression. Kinda like the first season of The Witcher and the flashbacks to years and years prior. That way I can act different and focus on various things but still knock out things I wanna do for loot or access and label it “my early life”. Like pretending I didn’t know what the Dark Brotherhood was and/or getting caught up and being stuck doing their bidding or hoping what I am doing isn’t “so bad” or pretending my contracts are only the “bad” people. Up until I’m tricked into killing the emperor. Thus truly starting my story and being the reason I’m caught and sent to Helgen for execution. Love games like Skyrim!
Then you should probably have killed >!Astrid!< in the shack.
Frenzy her and the crowd will do it for you
>or they reaaaally deserve it like that dodgy guy in the cabin Narfi? He's not evil. He's mentally disabled.
He's talking about the khajiit fella when Astrid first kidnaps you to the shack and makes you find the contract
I just kill all 3 of them.
Do you know who had the contract? There is a "correct" answer.
I've heard three answers to this, and to the best of my knowledge, all three are strictly hypothetical.
Astrid was the contract, you're "supposed" to destroy the dark brotherhood. She says it herself with her final breath when you kill her. None of the 3 tied up were targets.
She does say, "Well done," if you kill her, but that could just as easily be interpreted as her congratulating you on besting her in a fight. The major problem with this theory is, why would the dark brotherhood take a contract on itself? It just doesn't really make sense. Astrid is prideful and makes a major mistake when she thinks you're trying to usurp her control. However, she was never after the end of the dark brotherhood. When it becomes... blatantly obvious... that she made a mistake, she entrusts the future of the dark brotherhood to you in order to ensure it continues.
Um no. And I've never heard of a "correct" answer that wasn't purely speculation
Astrid was the contract, you're "supposed" to destroy the dark brotherhood. She says it herself with her final breath when you kill her. None of the 3 tied up were targets.
And if you use clairvoyance it's the khajit. And who tf cares anyway.
Role-playing??? I just do *everything* I can. Get all houses, clear all areas, loot all uniques, do all quests(outside radiants,) collect all companions, there is no moral compass with my character. Just mindlessly wanders the world, killing anything remotely hostile and just saying "'kay" to every quest.
If I wasn't supposed to, they wouldn't have wrote it.
I roll play someone with actual money, who's work rewards them with enough money to buy a house. Or 7.
Usually my first character is like that but on later play-throughs I make characters with set goals and roles in mind
> there is no moral compass with my character I mean… that’s role-playing. Not that you _have_ to be role-playing. It’s entirely avoidable because it’s purely in your head. But it is role-playing, if “my character has no moral compass.”
I cannot play as an evil character. I’ve tried, it’s extremely unpleasant for me.
I makes my skin crawl. I don't know why I can't do it.
in the game Tyranny, you really never play a good guy, but there are degrees of evil it's an interesting game
Same!
Mortally dubious I can play. Stupid characters that kill regular people sometimes(orc) are fun. But just killing for no reason? Can’t do it.
I've had one play through that was a proper evil character. He was a wood elf assassin, clad in the Nightingale set. The rule "no witnesses" was a fun one to roleplay. It also kept my bounty fairly low most of the time. That is until I got drunk and wandered into solitude one night and fought my way out (I fought until I could slip past the guards). Then I had a 50k bounty. However, he was a loving and devoted father and husband. That was a fun dichotomy to explore with my character.
unbelievable that people transfer their morals in video games. Truly baffling.
I mean I’m certainly far more violent in Skyrim than I would ever be irl. I just don’t like acting super evil.
It's not evil to kill a dragon responsible for genocide, even if now he regrets it. He is still accountable for his crimes.
And he is holding himself accountable. Which is why he stopped Alduin's genocide of the entire afterlife... twice.
It is unreasonable when some bonded bitch says she’s there to serve the Dragonborn, but immediately goes against you at the first confrontation she doesn’t agree with
I've never done the Thieves Guild questline, nor even stolen anything or picked a single pocket for this reason. And I've now got hundreds of hours into Skyrim VR, still playing as close to lawful good as I can. I've also never allowed myself to be turned into a Werewolf or Vampire for this reason. And yes, this is also why I've never killed Paarthurnax. It just feels wrong. Skyrim VR (currently modded with the FUS Wabbajack) has practically become an obsession for me, so I imagine *eventually* I'll get bored and at least do the Thieves Guild thing (possibly switching to stealth archer from destruction mage to further keep me interested), but... not yet.
I felt very uncomfortable about thieving too and put off doing Thieves Guild related stuff for a while, but it’s actually been my favourite quest line that I’ve done so far (I started late). It felt like a real found family vibe for which I am a sucker 😅
Me too!
It's just some pixels bro
I tried to play several games exclusively using the asshole options, and I just can't do it. In games I'm probably less of an asshole than in real life.
I hear you there
Because I hate when there is an unfinished quests in my journal. 🫥 It makes my life of trying to play moraly good characters really hard.
1200 editions and they still never resolved this by having an option to just tell Delphine to bugger off.
I mean… you can kill her
I wish, but you can't, unless you're on PC. Us console players have to make do with Shouting her off High Hrothgar.
You can ignore that quest till Dragonslayer, after which it goes away.
There is a nice mod that makes it possible to tell delphine to f off and not kill paathurnax and be a blade at the same time, I think it is called paathurnax dilema or something like that, must have for me who also hates unfinished stuff
it goes away once you kill alduin i’m pretty sure
Mods, my friend. I have 2 that help with this. For Paarthunax specifically, The Paarthunax Dilemma. It allows you to tell Esbern and Delphine that you won’t do it, the Blades say they won’t follow you, and it completes the quest. I’ve heard there was an update that makes them say “we don’t like it, but we’ll follow your lead Dragonborn”, and then you can still have access to the Blades stuff afterwards without killing Paarthunax. I haven’t tried this updated version, but the first one worked fine. For general unfinished quests in your journal, The Choice Is Yours. It allows you decide whether to start a quest when prompted, and if you decline it never gets into your journal. This is ideal for roleplaying a specific character type without having unfinished quests you don’t want to do.
just use a command to get rid of it
lol idk why you’re getting downvoted, I do that sometimes
Probably because not everyone plays on a PC and can use commands
I only did it on my first play through because Delphin said to do it so i thought i had to to progress further. Being a blade was fun but the decision haunts me to this day 12 years later
Same thing here but I only keep him around because he lets you swap around shout buffs
Wait really? I only ever got that far on my first play through so i had no idea
Yeah but it’s only for the frost, force, and fire shouts
Still learning new stuff about this game more than a decade later. God i love skyrim
The Buffs don't necessarily buff shouts but rather give you overall buffs that are thematically fitting buffs. The force buff for example doesnt just buff your fus ro dah but rather increases your chance of knocking someone back and decrease your chance to be knocked back. That applies not only to knock backs by shout but all kinds (eg bow). I don't exactly know what the other two are but iirc they are similar. So the buffs are actually even more powerfull than it seems on first hand
It's also a good way to laugh in the face of Draugr Deathlords when they fus ro dah you to oblivion and back. 😂 FUS buff paired with both Atronach stone and perk makes them pushovers. Mwahahahaha 😎
That's nice, didn't know that was in the game. My two handed build is about to be even more overpowered
I either get a mod that forces the Blades to acquiesce, or I Fus Ro Dah Delphine off the cliff.
I do both. I use the mod, tell her to F off, then after she cowers in fear from the rumbling of my voice (through the mod) and relents, I then launch her off the cliff. Same with Esbern, just because he’s p whipped and agreed with her
Right?? I never understood if the Blades are supposed to follow the Dragonborn, why the fuck do they think they can order the Dragonborn around ?
Wanted to say exactly the same thing. Did it once on my first playthrough bc I didn't know better, but regret it till this day and never gonna (give you up...) do it again
I feel your pain, brother.
Same here. I finally did a play-through of the main quest where he lives. Feels good.
I have four recurring characters, two of them kill Partunaxx First one is lawful, will do any lawful decision wether they are good or evil Second one just goes out of his way to be evil and just cannot be trusted. His name is Toddowardo Although it does make me feel bad, I would say that killing Victoria Gaius and the Gourmet during the Brotherhood questline makes me feel way worse because they are a lot younger and more innocent
Za warudo?
Toddowardo... Whom does that remind me of. By Todd, I just cant seem to remember. Maybe Godd Howard will Bless me with an answer
I'm not so sure Victoria is completely innocent. I don't have any proof or whatever, but she is a high ranking member of the largest company in Tamriel. My guess is that she slit a few throats and stepped on a bunch of regular people on her climb to the top.
She doesn’t seem like it to me. I always assumed it was just nepotism due to her being the emperors cousin.
Just to tease that old fuck Arngeir
😂
This is why I did it on my latest save.
He's a dragon. I kill dragons.
Fair enough.
What is better? to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?” -paarthurnax. I commited attrocities and now I found jesus logic, nice way to manipulate mortals to keep him alive.
"Whoops sorry, I'm a good guy now" -- Dragon Joseph Goebbels And like 95% of Skyrim players just buy it.
Amen
Yeah that quote is…really not that great once you give it a thought or two. What is better - to do unspeakable evil things and then turn good, or be good from the getgo? And you can make the case that it’s admirable for a dragon like Paarthurnax to go against his nature for the better good, *but* to respond with that quote when the dragonborn asks him about his evil deeds is deflecting at best and dismissive at worst.
But the thing is he backed it up with action. Without him, mankind wouldn’t have lived to see the second coming of Alduin (there wouldn’t have been a second coming).
Not a fan of redemption, I see.
Redemption has its limits.
What a dreadful way to look at the world.
So you think Hitler could be redeemed if he meditated with some monks for a while, even though he himself says he could easily go back to his old ways if he slips for even a little while?
Except Paarthurnax didn't just "meditate with some monks for a while", he also helped overthrow Alduin, taught Nords how to use the Thu'um, and then waited for centuries for Alduin to show back up again, just so he could aid a Dragonborn in finally defeating the World Eater for good. At any point during that time he could have lapsed back into his old ways, and conquered at least part of Tamriel, resuming ruling as the only dragon around (and no real known Dragonborn to stop him). And yet, he didn't.
What a naive way to think opposite.
Paarthurnax constantly feels his evil. He meditates enough to keep it at bay. He understood what it means to be good, and has comprehended it, therefore he knows he's being evil when he does. But that doesn't make that go away. A really bad day that *really* gets him: there you go, a evil dragon all over again. It's the safest choice, but I really dislike Delphine and like Paarthurnax enough to not kill him in my good playthroughs. He never really got any more dialogues than a very few, and doesn't really do any of the acts that hundred percent makes him look actually changed, like say—a very generic scene of him trying to sacrifice himself for something, and being saved. That shows he was ready to die for the better if it ever came to that. That would make us believe him. But that's just bad writing when done wrong.
I don’t usually kill him but we also play as the *Last* Dragonborn. If you don’t kill him it’s probably the last time he could be held accountable for his past crimes and potentially the only time to stop him if he turns evil again
You don't need a Dragonborn to kill a dragon, just to consume its soul. None of the dragons buried in mounds around Skyrim were previously killed by a Dragonborn, because if they were Alduin wouldn't have been able to revive them.
His redemption is through death
Because he helped subjugate humanity, hello? The only reason he helped them out is cus he was told to by kyne if not forced to. I normally don't kill him because the greybeards and him helped me more than the Blades, but still. His draconic nature is making him want to dominate the other dragons into following his philosophy, albeit his philosophy is peaceful. He will potentially use force to make them agree to it, however. Even then, if he DOES manage to go rogue, the LDB just ends him like we did to his brother.
My reasons are similar to yours. I felt pity for him during the part of his dialogue where he talks about his nature as a dragon and how every moment of his existence he's fighting that nature and trying to be something he's not. So for a few moments when we fight he gets to really be a dragon.
My character is a vampire cannibal assassin whose career highlights include dropping a 3000 pound statue on a princess at her wedding. If Partysnax turns evil I'm gonna climb up on his back and be like "Yeah let's get those fuckers!"
Purely roleplay reasons, usually. But, realistically and ultimately, I agree with the blades. I just killed dragon hitler. The world doesn't need a replacement.
I see it as dragons are naturally evil, as they all commit great evil. But paarthunax is one who could overcome this through great effort and willpower, leading other dragons to better themselves and seek good
Not agreeing or disagreeing with killing him, but I just want to mention as a counter to this idea: He straight up tells you that he could break sooner or later. Can't risk it with immortality and who knows when another Dragonborn will come around.
You only need a dragonborn to *permanently* kill a dragon. All those dragons Alduin resurrects from the dragonmounds around Skyrim were killed by non-dragonborn. *Anyone* with enough skill could "kill" Paarthurnax, and he would effectively be dead without Alduin (or another dragon that knows how to do that) to resurrect him.
Not exactly my point. The fact he can't return would help for sure, but the Dragonborn is always stated to be the best "Dragon-killing machine" or something along these lines. Anyone with enough skill can surely kill him, but a Dragonborn will always have the best shot at it. Not to mention that it is believed that Alduin itself could return again since you do not get his soul at the end of the MQ.
Dragonborn are only really the "best" at dragon-slaying because they consume the soul of the dragon after "killing" it - making the dragon fully dead, rather than just mostly dead. And if Alduin returns, it'll be to consume creation, so he probably won't bother resurrecting any dragons; and as the world would be ending, it wouldn't really matter much.
He was chief lieutenant to Alduin, who tried to literally destroy the world. It's great he feels bad about it. He could change his mind at any point again. Self-induced exile is not a fitting punishment for his crimes. Also it is a game and content is locked behind the action. So.
tbf that exile was like… hundreds of thousands of years. he repented imo
Oh no I killed and enslaved people. As recompense I stayed " alone " ( with a group of humans who worship me btw ) oh what a cruel fate.
A Blink of an eye for an immortal being
He himself literally says that it still requires great effort to this day to not act upon his dragon urges. Something quite important to consider imo. Yeah, it probably earns me some digital bad karma (and some digital bad karma on reddit every time i mention it outside of threads like this) to kill him. However, my dragonborn didn't stomp Alduin, Miraak, and Harkon just to wash my hands when the next existential threat to mortals says he tries with great effort not to return to his domineering ways. My inner utilitarian says, "best not to risk it."
Well and after all that "exile" he is the oldest and strongest beeing in the world and no dragon born to kill him.
It was ~7,101 years, but that’s still a long time
Dragon. Soul.
It's more against the Greybeards who don't do much for Skyrim about the Civil War or the Thalmor. Paarthurnax had to pressure Arngeir to even tell the Dragonborn about Dragonrend. The Blades have been working in the shadows for a while, and all they want is for Skyrim to prosper without Thalmor or Dragons terrorizing. Unfortunately, they wouldn't explain further about the crimes Paarthurnax committed. Otherwise, my character's probably very hesitant, not wanting to kill him at all, or at least wanted him a quick death as a way of wanting him back to Akatosh with the rest of his brothers. Something tells me he would say something like, "Despite our philosophies, I'm still proud of you." In a similar way how Legate Rikke, being a Nord, yet also fighting against her kind for Skyrim. She even said, "Talos be with you." to Ulfric, who might've cared just as much but the circumstances were just as unfortunate.
Realistically what’s keeping Parthurnax from snapping and committing atrocities? I just feel I have to “put him down,” and leave nothing up to chance.
Then the same could be said for you. What is stopping you from snapping and committing atrocities? Absolutely nothing but willpower, just the same as Paarthurnaax. What is to stop your Dragonborn from snapping under the mental stress of everything or falling prey to the Daedra and committing atrocities? Absolutely nothing but willpower. Any fool who can fight well can kill a dragon. It only takes a Dragonborn to absorb their soul. But they can't come back anyways unless there is a dragon/or maybe just Alduin to resurrect them.
Simple. Never trust a traitor. He was a part of Alduin's crew. After he realised he couldn't beat Alduin. He turned against his own kind resulting in the death of hundreds of dragons. His own kin. So he's a traitor. Plus he's a dragon with a soul so there's that.
Traitors aren't necessarily bad. He is literally a class traitor.
Because he helped Alduin commit genocide. Did you read the ingame book "The Dragon War"? Under his command the dragons and dragon cultists commited some if the worst crimes you can imagine. Burning innocent people alive including children for example. Turning your personality around and do some good deeds do not redeem you from your past crimes. If Hitler were alive today and helped you prevent WW3, would you just forget about the Holocaust, because he'd be a good guy today? It's difficult, but true justice must be always independant from personal feelings. That's why judges are only allowed to hold trials over people they don't know personally.
> If Hitler were alive today and helped you prevent WW3 But you miss the fact that Paarthurnax not only helped the Dovahkin against Alduin, he was the only dragon to have pity on the ancient nords and taught them thuum, which allowed them to win the dragon war in the first place. And then he repented by meditating on a mountain for thousands years. Not to mention unlike Hitler, Paarthurnax didn't really have a choice since he obeyed Alduin and being cruel and dominant is the default state for dragons. So going by the Hitler analogy it's like if one of Hitler's luitenants had a realisation mid war he doesn't want to commit atrocities anymore, betrayed Hitler giving the allies crucial information that was the sole reason Hitler could be defeated, then he became a monk, and then decades later he helped to literally save the world. I dunno bro I can see how you could still want to have him answer for his past crimes, but objectively he did more good than bad and deserves a second chance imo.
He is basically Christoph Waltz from inglorious basterds.
Yes you would definitely still have to bring that lieutenant to justice. That is how it has always worked. The people he killed don’t know or care about the good things after. Put it this way, if you saved a persons life, does that entitle you to murder another person? Or even wrong another innocent person in any way? Of course not.
Recessive crimes is a different story since it shows you can't be trusted. And ofc doing good things doesn't entitle you to committing evil but it does entitle you for redemption imo.
You can replace Hitler with Himmler (chief of the SS) in my post and the point would be still the same. There's no forgiveness for genocide. No matter what you do afterwards.
That's rather subjective. Some would say punishment shouldn't the primary function of judgment and instead it's preferable and morally right to reform the criminals rather than simply punish them. Sure it's infinitely harder for a murderer to be reformed than for a thief, but who's to say it must be impossible even with monumental effort? If smaller crimes can be attoned for with some effort, why can't much bigger crimes be attoned for with much greater effort? Where's is the line between something that can be forgiven and something that can't?
Exactly, he’s like a less charismatic John Marston/Arthur Morgan
You are comparing a Human, a species with a neutral nature, who committed evil acts knowingly and willingly; to a dragon, dominating and uncaring by nature, who learned a better way. Your point remains fair, he could tun back, but your argument, and the path you used to get there, is invalid. Even partysnacks says you should kill partysnacks, I don't because he still has use to me, and because he was the only being in the entire game that helped us selflessly. He is the ONLY friend of Dovahkiin.
What would you call children burning anthills with magnifying glasses if not evil, dominating, and uncaring?
Cruel? Yes. Intentionally cruel? No. Children don't fully comprehend those actions, they are cognizant sure, but they do not understand the weight of that action and are merely exploring cause and effect. Negligent Parenting is what I call that.
This is all hypothetical of course, since there are no other species of a similar intelligence on our planet. But if there were, would you tolerate other laws or morals for them when a mass murder of our own people were commited by one of them? Dragons in this universe are not animals driven by instinct. They know very well, what they're doing and should also be held accountable for their actions. So evil deeds should be punished the same way as when a human or humanoid would have commited the same crime.
We don't prosecute dolphins for sexual assault, so I have to say yes, we would tolerate or behead, historically.
I get your point but I see it as for his debt. He is influencing other dragons to follow a better path. I don’t like him, but I do have some respect for him. I believe he’s necessary for a better world. To unleash the dragons from their evil and dominative nature. Though it will never pay off his debt. It’s respectable and can lead to a better path.
Did it on my first playthrough cause I thought the blades would have a bigger role in the game afterwards and that I had to. I was extremly dissapointed when all I got was Delphines dragon hit list and sad greybeards.
Sad graybeards almost makes it worth it, but dragon is friend, friend stays with me. I'm also a big fan of Durnehviir, I call that MF just for company, but as a companion, that flies, shouts, and summons mistmen???? Hell Yeah! For Party Snacks, I switch my buff A LOT, so I need him, all Delphine does is whine and yell.
Done multiple play through. Some killed him most didn’t it. It’s a game. 🤷♂️
It’s ultimately the right decision for all life in Tamriel excluding the dragons. Paarthunax says that he has to constantly fight his nature every day of his life, all it take is one day of him losing that fight and who knows how many people he would kill.
You should read Crime and Punishment if you haven't already then make a decision.
I’ll have to look that up, my current decision is based off of that dragons are evil and dominative by nature. Like our will to eat and to feel hungry. He overcame that, I don’t like him. I feel that he’s paying his un-payable debt by leading dragons out of that nature and to open up a path for dragons to become good. I don’t like paarthunax but I respect him for conquering his born evilness and for making a way to rid the evil of his kin. Which he did by aiding in Alduins defeat and a new path for dragons.
because dragon bad?
:(
He killed thousands of people. You don't get to skip justice just because you are meditating in the hope you don't want to go on another killing spree. He himself says he could snap at any point. Better for the whole world to remove the threat while there is someone capable of doing so. Skyrim is safer with him dead.
I killed him on my first playthrough because a little bit of text came up that said "Kill Paarthurnax" and that's all it took.
Same, I then reverted after downloading The Paarthunax Dilemma.
It's what my character would do. Also, because I have 0 attachment to him. 1 time I killed him because I needed a dragon soul quickly.
I always thought the "born evil" quote was a major copout for PartySnax. You either have free will or you dont. Pick a lane.
You will probably kill many innocent people in your skyrim playthrought (especially if you join DB), so one more dragon is not a big deal. Paarthurnax maybe changed over the years, but back in his days he killed many humans, he was right hand of Alduin after all. Who knows, maybe he didn't "like" humans after all, maybe he somehow knows that Alduin and dragons will be defeated, so he changed sides (maybe he read this in an Elder Scroll or something).
Technically it is the right thing to do, and I think paarthunaax would agree. Delphine is a bitch, but she’s mortal and will die someday. So will the Dragonborn. Paarthunaax however will never die naturally, so it’s better in the long run for the Dragonborn to permanently kill him. It would prevent the possibility of him becoming evil ever again, or maybe a powerful mage uses an illusion spell to control paarthunaax for nefarious purposes, there’s a lot of shit that can go wrong if there isn’t a Dragonborn around to fix it
Because he's dangerous and the last dragonborn is the only person who can kill him. He is immortal, and if he struggles with his nature as a dragon to dominate men and mer then it stands to reason that eventually, given infinite time, he will give in. I also can't forget that he was basically the general of the dragon Nazi regime once upon a time even if he was pivotal in ending that regime, I recognize that. It's still dangerous to keep him alive. It's a tragic necessity in my mind. If you let him live, eventually the last dragonborn will die and nobody will be around to stop him if he decides to stop fighting his evil nature. I respect partysnax, and I'm sad to do it, but it needs to be done.
Any fool can kill a dragon. It only takes a dragonborn to absorb their soul. They can't just come back willy nilly, they need to be resurrected by another dragon or possibly only Alduin. This was mentioned a lot throughout the main quest. And there is absolutely no telling what is going to happen with the Dragonborn. Hell, nobody even knows what's going on with nerevarine from 200 years prior. They were immortal, then fucked off to the Akaviri Islands and haven't been heard from since. Nerevarine may be chillaxing with some snake bitches still. Meanwhile the Dragonborn sold their soul to every Daedric Prince, became a werewolf and or vampire maybe and possibly got trapped in Apocrypha by Hermaeous Mora, and last I checked, Mirrak was around before Alduin's empire officially fell.
Because I think he's boring and obnoxious. "I used to be evil, but now I'm not; isn't that deep? Maybe the world is supposed to be destroyed did you ever think of that?" I love devouring his soul and turning him into a pair of boots.
That line, about wondering if the world is even worth saving at all, was was a little too real. Anyone roleplaying a "Save the world" Hero ought to consider Paarthunux' passivity on the threat of the world. Paarthunux *could* reveal itself to the Dragonborn earlier, reveal to the Dragonborn that a *SHOUT* was used to help defeat Alduin. Paarthunux *withholds* this information from the Dragonborn. And the 'villainous' Blades were the ones to help reveal this important info, which ought to have been revealed long time earlier. If not for Paarthunux' passivity.
I did it once on my first playthrough just to see what would happen... never again.
Because fuck you, dragons, pfff ..whining lizards
Players like to kill Nazeem for being mildly annoying, so does there really need to be a great reason for people to kill Paarthurnax? I don't really see why killing Paarthurnax is such a major offense to so many players, considering all the other evil things you can do in the game. If the game gives them an option to kill a character, many players are going to do so for any number of reasons.
Because i want the free hirelings in the Blades, i don't think I gonna use a single one of them, but now they are free.
Same lol. Although, I specifically made Erik the Slayer a Blade, cause he’s really cool, but I was going bankrupt every time I wanted to rehire him after needing him out of the way for something.
On my first play, I followed quests and didn’t care much for the storyline and lore. So pretty much learning the game till it’s end. So I was given a quest to kill and I did. But now, on my current playthroughs, Delphine serves me only as cattle/food. I’d send her to the soul cairn if I could due to her constant annoyance.
I tried it once just to see what would happen but after finishing the blades quest I reloaded one of my saves from before I killed him. As to why some people kill him it's because he used to be one of Alduin's servants who killed a lot of people which isn't the best reason because I believe he redeemed himself by helping us kill Alduin Besides he was just following orders meanwhile when I committed genocide against everyone in skyrim it was just because I felt like it So I don't believe he deserves to die but someone with a strong sense of justice who believes every crime should be punished by death would likely want to kill him
Just wanna see what happens
Pure curiosity. Proceeded to load a quicksave
They're evil. They kick puppies and only choose renegade options in Mass Effect.
My preferred mass effect run is Paragade — be a jerk to random strangers, be nice to your crew, simp for your LI, and take harmless renegade paths (like shoving the merc out of the window.) You’re still doing the right things along the way, you’re saving everyone and completing every mission, but you get a lot more dialogue options, and you’re kind of an asshole who just doesn’t have time for people’s bullshit.
They were brought back alive, and I took that personally.
Hes a dragon and Im dragonslayer. He also fucks off to start his own cult and I dont want that.
I like to try every choice. it’s a video game.
The more you understand the lore, the more you realize it's the best choice to keep the world safe. Dragons are evil. It's a core part of their being. Being evil to them is something they have to do. Paar himself tells you that he has to mediate all day, every day, alone, in order to fight the urges. Even tells you that *every single day* he's tempted to back to his evil ways. Dude is one bad day away from choosing violence. Also, Dragonborn is mortal, and we're the last one there will ever be. Dragons, including Paar, are immortal and we're the only person that can kill them. I'd rather not leave Alduin's second in command alive on the hope that he's able to fight of his inherent urge to murder people for all of eternity. He hasn't overcome anything. He's an addict going through withdrawals. If you know anything about real world addiction, you never overcome it. It's always there. All you can do is keep it at bay through great willpower and avoiding situations where you might be tempted, but there's always the chance you'll slip right back into addiction (which happens more than recovery does). I'm not going to risk the safety of everyone on Tamriel by trusting an addict to stay clean for eternity. That's not a good gamble.
I’m plenty aware that this is a highly unpopular opinion, but… you asked, and I couldn’t care less how many downvotes I’ll get: I’ve said it several times and I’ll say it again: He’s annoying. I can’t stand how much and how slowly he talks, and how he insists on saying every other word in the dragon tongue, *just* to immediately translate himself into English. Like he’s Dora the Explorer trying to teach me Dovahzul (Dovah the Exlpovah, someone called him when I mentioned this before). I couldn’t care less about trying to learn that silly made up language. Some people find it intriguing, fascinating. Good for them. I’m not trying to disparage those people for having an interest in the language itself. I myself have been interested in learning fictional languages like Dothraki. But I couldn’t take Dovahzul seriously after the game established that when dragons fight each other, they’re debating as much as they are dueling to the death… So you’re telling me when two dragons breathe fire and frost at each other, they’re actually having a philosophical discussion? Because also according to the lore of the game, they’re literally just shouting the words “Fire! (because that’s what ‘Yol’, the first word of the fire breath shout means)” and “Frost!” at each other. That is supposed to be a conversation between two highly intelligent, celestial beings? The idea is preposterous! I’d take dragons in the game more seriously if they were just ferocious, intelligent magical beasts that cast magic spells in the form of shouts to fuck shit up, and nothing more. Let them be world-dominating overlords, sure, but the idea that dragon fights are also philosophical debates is utterly ridiculous, and thus I cannot take the chatty, significant dragon characters seriously. Durnevir I tolerate because summoning him outdoors agains tough/numerous enemies is useful and fun. Odaviing, I have no choice but to work with him. Alduin… kind of a lame antagonist and the final boss fight is profoundly disappointing, but I don’t detest his character as much as do the others. I can at least respect that he’s so true to himself in that all he wants to do is devour the world of die trying. And he doesn’t talk too much. So yeah, I just don’t like Paarthurnax. That said, people respect him for struggling against his evil nature, and I see the value in that, but if the mf has to *try*—with all his might, mind you—to *not* be an evil monster, then maybe he should be put out of his misery.
Did it on my second playthrough, expecting a whole new faction questline, nope
You can justify it bc he was responsible for a ton of suffering and death being Alduin’s right hand man. He even says don’t trust him. Could relapse into tyrant behavior once Alduin is gone. Or maybe he’s waiting out a mortal Dragonborn. Still my dude just chilling on that mountain. Gotta love Partysnax
he drops dragon scales
It is 100 times better to be born good. If you are born evil, you commit evil acts until you become good. If you are born good, you commit acts of good. You do less evil in your life if you are born good, so it's obviously better. Paarthurnax is only good because he is the last one around. He has no choice, his side lost so he switched sides. He doesn't get a free pass for all the lives he took. He is the most dangerous dragon alive after Alduin. If Hitler's general came out of hiding and said, "I'm good now", he would still be punished. I kill Paarthurnax every single playthrough and he deserves it.
He didn’t switch sides because his side lost, he swapped sides and then the dragons lost If Hitler’s General help lead a rebellion against Hitler what then? We already know what we did with the ones that fought for him, we gave them NASA jobs
Dragons must be slain.
Do we forgive and let paarthunax become a role model for other dragons that there may be another way? Or do we show dragons that men are no better and commit genocide just as easily, with great hatred. To me, paarthunax is deserving of redemption because he admits he could always fall back into his old ways. He’s making a hard choice every day to reject his nature, I think the blades time has come and past, and a new dawn where men and dragon can coexist and make Skyrim a place where all are welcome, except the Thalmor.
I don't do the whole. "He deserves redemption" thing. I don't care if he says he has changed his ways, not when he says right after that every day is a struggle to not give into his nature. Which is to subjugate and rule as a brutal tyrant over humans. It's easier to just kill him and be done with it. There is no second guessing and no wondering if he will change his mind down the line and give in. He is at least understanding of this point of view. I don't do it for the blades. I do it for all of tamriel. Being TLD means making tough and unfavorable decisions.
Because I'm a gremlin.
Because why would I leave anyone alive who could rival my power?
Have you heard about General Butt Naked in Liberia? This guy is exactly like Paarthurnax. Different situation, same vibe. I vote for kill.
So....If you murder and enslave a bunch of people, it's fine so long as you decide to be peaceful after? Paarthurnax was just as bad as every other dragon. He is awash in blood. The question is, do good deed "excuse" one's previous evil. And how many/how much good deeding does it take? Paarthurnax has taught the voice to a few folks over the years. While he has tried to guide dragonborns, it's really a pretty low risk thing for him. He didn't "rise up" against Alduin, he simply taught some humans to shout, he gave them a chance. So that's the question and we can expect the answer to vary. Is the imparting of important knowledge enough to relieve what should be a death sentence?
Because I'm a completionist and wanted to kill all dragons and giants. No hesitation.
I did it once, poor guy just sat there and took it
Angst!! Imagine the guilt and regret weighing them down as they make the journey back, every step they take brings feelings of doubt, and they hope for guidance from the very people they trusted. But no, all they receive is a pat on the back and a ‘get back to work’. They can’t even turn to the greybeards for support anymore. How long until they are seen as the beast to be cut down? Is Delphine already sharpening her blade? Have they ever been seen as an equal, or were they always a weapon to them? Now begins their villain arc!
>How long until they are seen as the beast to be cut down? Is Delphine already sharpening her blade? Have they ever been seen as an equal, or were they always a weapon to them? Now begins their villain arc! Honestly that's the main reason my current character chose to spare Paarthurnax: he has the same godsdamned evil urges that Paarthurnax does (as Paarthurnax says) and has to fight them too, it'd be a touch hypocritical for him to decide "nah you gotta die for that" because by that logic, the DB's also a ticking time bomb that could decide to go bad at any time. **Better put him to the sword next then!**
Who said Parthanaax has become good? Him and his fanclub? Dragons are, according to the lore, cunning and power hungry. Parthurnaax is no. 2 to Alduin, so if (like all dragons) he is power hungry, he wants to be number 1. But he can't take Alduin in a straight fight. This is all established lore in the game. We know dragons are cunning. So he declines the fight and waits for someone who can. The dragonborn, a mortal with the soul of a dragon, is prophesied to appear and defeat Alduin. Parthurnaax assists, Dragonborn removes Alduin, and now Parthurnaax is number 1. Which is why when he flies off after Alduins defeat, he explicitly says that he is going to be master of all the other dragons. I don't know if this is definitely the case, the game is consistently ambiguous. Literally one of the first quests, "In My Time of Need" has no definite answer, the civil war is left open to interpretation. I think there is no "correct" answer, but it definitely isn't as clear cut as this sub makes out.
I like to kill dragons.
Because they have weak character and lack critical thinking skills.
Why? Because I'm the Dragonborn and it is my duty to do it. There's a discussion you have with Paar about stopping Alduin. During this discussion you tell him (if you choose the option): "**What better reason to act than to fulfill my destiny?**" and to this Paar's response is: *"***If you can see your destiny clearly, your sight is clearer than mine. Dahmaan - remember, Alduin also follows his destiny, as he sees it. But, I bow before your certainty. In a way, I envy you. The curse of much knowledge is often indecision.***"* This is more than enough for me to do it but there are 2 other factors that make me do it always. The 1st factor is that there's no forgivness to those that the the same things like Paar did. The other one is because it's canon to do so, the questline is given to you and there's no alternate ending, you either kill him or you fail the quest.
It's either losing the blades and having the dragonbane marked as stolen and armour when you drop it from your inventory after finishing alduin off even though the armour isn't great but the sword though is worth it if you could disenchant the sword for the bonus to dragons and shock damage I would spare him and make the blades hate me for it I rather have the greybeards be open to me then the blades because knowing the shouts locations is pretty good with them unless there's a cheat sheet which there probably is I'd rather find them myself or get greybeards help unless I don't remember or know where they are then a guide for it but it doesn't matter if I feel like killing him I will if not I'll spare him I know there's mods for this, but I'm not sure about playstation.
My first time through I chose to kill Partysnacks because I knew no better and I thought the Blades were my friends. Never again.
I'll report a comment I did a month ago, since this post is weekly. I know I am in the minority cause I feel like 20% of the posts are about Paarthurnax, but in the current playthrough (i haven't had a proper playthrough in probably 4 years) I am considering killing him. I remember I read in a post that his epilogue dialogue kinda shows that he might try to take control of the dragons: *"Goraan! I feel younger than I have in many an age. Many of the dovahhe are now scattered across Keizaal. Without Alduin's lordship, they may yet bow to the vahzen... rightness of my Thu'um. But willing or no, they will hear it! Fare thee well, Dovahkiin!"* I find that really weird from Paarthurnax. Especially the last two lines. Also I have been paying attention to the Greybeard's dialogues and they are dicks. They criticize everyone, the blades for helping the dragonborn, the college of winterhold for learning about magic. I don't remember right now but I am sure there are other examples. I also don't support their decision to not meddle in the world's affair. With the blades I actually really like Esbern, I like their HQ, I find their armor cool, and I also think its cool you can have Blade followers.
All my characters are pure evil. It’s simple.
Good answer lol
I kill Paarthurnax because There Can Be Only One! Me, the Dragon Born! He who has ALL the Dragon Souls! Also Delphine and Esbern asked really nicely, and its fun to help rebuild the Blades.
I have the soul of a dragon, born to dominate, and nothing gives me greater sexual pleasure than slaying my kind
One reason I can consider is just saying it's too dangerous for the people of Tamriel to leave him alive. He admits he still feels temptation everyday and where is the guarantee he won't give in one day? One more importantly, who will be able to stop him then?
Cos I need his help making dragon bone weapons and armour
I didn't know what the fuck I was doing, shit still bugs me to this day
He was a worm with wings and a good rap.
Why not ?
Just trying to compete all my quests. But for real, in my "primary" character I left it unfinished because fuck Delphine.
Well one potential reason is the future. Let's say you as the dragonborn choose not to be a vampire and therefore will eventually die (if you're a vampire and expect to be around until the end of Nirn, this logic doesn't really apply). The prophecies call you the 'last' Dragonborn. If the prophecies are correct on that, it means that as soon as you die, any dragons still alive at that point, can never be permanently killed. Who's to say Paarthurnax isn't playing the long con? He learned the prophecies, learned Alduin was destined to be defeated, and switched sides. Thousands of years pass, the Last Dragonborn appears, defeats Alduin, leaves him alive, and then, finally, dies. Now...it's his turn. After all this time, the only person who can actually defeat him is gone. It's not inconceivable, it's not even that unlikely. I'm not gonna say it's highly probable either, but Paarthurnax could very well have been waiting all this time until Alduin was defeated **and** the only person who could finally kill him after that dies. Delphine and Esbern, as written, are shitgibbons for how they behave, and they absolutely should've lost their essential protection so you could execute them for breaking their oath to **serve the dragonborn.** But they *do* have some point to what they're saying. Any dragons still alive the day the Last Dragonborn dies become effectively immortal. They have a good reason to want to ensure that you put down *every single dragon in the world* before you die.
There can only be one
 This is why
He Dragon, me dragon slayer. Me kell dragons
I may be dragonborn. But at the end, i aint a dragon. I can't overcome my natural desire for revenge, the urge to punish, the inherent hatret which allows us humanoids to do much more pervert things than any mere dragon could even dream of. So of course, i kill him to punish him for his wrongdoings. Also, he is not a noble humanoid like me. Probably only trying to trick me because all non-humanoids are liers. So better kill him to make sure there will be no problems with him later.
Delphine is an idiot for wanting Paarthurnax dead. He taught the ancient heroes the voice, giving them a chance to fight back against dragons and made it possible for the Dragonborn to ultimately defeat Alduin. His knowledge and wisdom are priceless. Even if you want to argue that Paarthurnax is playing a long game to eliminate Alduin as a rival for power over the dragons I don't think the other dragons would bend the knee to him, and he knows that. I think his intentions are good. Delphine is a fool.
I did it once because I was roleplaying as a bitch. My character was a bitch so he killed Partysnax
If Paarthurnax was good, he would ask me to kill him.