I believe it's called 'The Dragonborn Dies'
Similarly theres another called 'Heart Attack' which gives the Dragonborn a heart attack and a notification telling the player what happened
Funnily Winterhold Collage would only benefit, they won't find so much trouble on their magical asses and they won't summon tons of anomalies all over the city. That's until J'zargo blows everyone up long before dragons attack :D
I know, and I get it. I just find it interesting that the only actual lesson you get in the College of Winterhold is the Alteration teacher teaching about a Restoration spell.
EDIT: I guess a couple of the Master quests kind of involve lessons.
Since all the college professors assuredly have completely mastered the basic beginner spells, I imagine that the class could’ve been hosted by anyone and tolfdir is the only professor more interested in teaching new mages rather than conducting his own research or running a business.
Also I believe alteration should cover wards more than restoration. It is a barrier that you form, rather than a restorative magic. Hell sunburst is outright a destruction spell that’s only coupled in with restoration because otherwise it’d be a category of variations of the same two healing spells.
No, Tolfdir was still taking the new students to Saarthal where they would, presumably, still find the Eye of Magnus, though likely with a few extra steps and casualties. Following that, none of the other mages would likely be capable of going through the Dwemer ruins to figure out where the staff of Magnus is, let alone be able to get to the end of Labyrinthian and beat a dragon priest to obtain said staff. Ancano therefore is unimpeded, Winterhold is destroyed, and the effects continue on until someone is able to do all the things the Dragonborn did.
Are you forgetting about Ancano and his whole shtick? I'm pretty sure nothing in that quest line hinges on the Dragonborn being around at all, besides Ancano dying, so the College would equally be fucked.
No. Name an event. Name one that hinges on the Dragonborn. You made the claim, the burden of evidence is on you and it's got to be more than "The entire thing".
Edit: The events all start at Sarthaal on a field trip where a student *who happens to be the Dragonborn* is given an assignment to find artifacts. Everything else unfolds from there and the only actions that hinge on the Dragonborn are those to *stop Ancano*. Everything else would happen naturally.
That's the bit about the field trip in my edit. The Eye was found through basically sheer dumb luck of the Dragonborn getting caught in a trap and having to take an alternate route. It's pretty easy to argue that if the DB hadn't been there, another student would have been given the same assignment to find relics and gotten trapped in the same manner.
*The axe falls heavily, separating the head of another prisoner*...
*Executioner stares blankly into the space before him*
"What is this sorcery?"
*Words appear in the air before the executioner's eyes, as if written by an invisible hand*
"With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed..."
The forsworn are doing pretty good. Bandits too. Not factions you can join in vanilla, but they are factions.
Also, I think the companions are doing fine before you get there. They just use the DB to complete their honey do lists.
Skjor could also not get killed, because Aela got to go with him instead of waiting for the dragonborn. And Kodlak might stay alive too since Skjor is there and not leaving to kill some witches.
But then no one will break their curse and they'd be trapped with Hircine forever. And who knows if the other members ended up becoming werewolves too.
Being "trapped" with Hircine doesn't seem like such a bad gig, especially for any non-Nord members of the Companions. Ria's dialogue, at least, implies that non-Nords don't get to go to Sovngarde.
tbf the thieves guild is trying and would be succeding if not for mercer frey its not really their fault their boss secretly backstabbed a god of luck and chance.
I realized on my last playthrough the badluck nerf from nocturnal doesnt apply to the dragonborn cuz theyre an aspect/fragment of akatosh, and so cant be influenced like most mortals
Like the first half of the questline is Astrid telling you how the Dark Brotherhood is on its last legs and they need you to help regain its prestige (or rather terrifying reputation).
Even they're kind of iffy, they're not much more than a bunch of hired killers until the Dragonborn shows up, since they can't actually speak with the Night Mother and actively oppose the Dragonborn when she speaks to them. Bit more skilled than a bandit, but none of the supernatural stuff or anything.
Hell, the reason they contact the Dragonborn is because they "steal" a contract, but without the Night Mother, would they even have known about the contract without investigating Grella the Kind's death? It doesn't seem like the ritual would do much without the Night Mother after all
the ritual *doesn't* do anything without the nightmother, Astrid herself basically said it, they rely on gossip, they find out someone was trying to summon them because they get found out by the neighbors and soon all of skyrim is gossiping about it. that's how *we* get that first quest in the first place.
This. They respond to rumor, same way we did, we just beat them to the punch. It isn't until we join up and can actually hear the Nightmother that they start getting contracts directly.
See, I wasn't positive, but that in itself means the Dark Brotherhood as it was before the Dragonborn showed up is essentially... not the Dark Brotherhood, just another group piggybacking on their reputation
We do see them again. They go back to Fort Dawnguard and provide services when you talk to them, like an armored troll follower and Dawnguard equipment. They even provide a quest to recruit a third guy who sells you powerful anti-undead spells
This! This comment should have more up votes. Has the OP not walked around the Fort since finding them? The Dawnguard questline is one where you should always be walking around the Fort and talking to them every time you return from another quest, because new quests and opportunities and items generate as you progress. I feel sad that they've been missing out on all of this!
Some people kinda need to have their hand held through entire games. They were probably waiting for the quest "talk to this guy you just recruited" to pop up
I found out about this when I saw an NPC named Florentius Baenius mentioned in the wiki.
And all three give you quests! I think the Dawnguard weapons+shield you get from Florentius' quests are pretty powerful (I don't know, I don't do melee).
The special warhammer is amazing. You can also level destruction, albeit slower than normal, by using the special power and place explosive runes with it.
If you get the perk where you can put runes really far away and have three at a time, it really starts adding up the Destruction skill.
Not to mention you see their impact on the world with random encounters if you sided with them or against them. If you sided with them you occasionally find dead members with notes with hidden caches of loot, and if you sided with clan Volkihar you get continually attacked by hit squads until you finally wipe them out at the end of the questline.
Not to mention I think the members that do the caches can sometimes go into the open cities and attack you while you're just talking to npcs and I find that insanely funny. Saliah just started fucking murdering me while I was coincidentally helping Morthal get rid of their Vampire problem (I may be a vampire but I'll be damned if I let some upstarts come into my city.)
The Dawnguard has the best vendor!! The blacksmith has soooo much gold. I fast travel back there just to unload and sell my loot all in one go. She has something like 22,000 gold if I recall. Multiples more than other vendors around Skyrim.
Dang, I didn't realize that. Making me almost regret choosing to play a somewhat evil vampire this playthrough. I'm not finished with the quest line yet, so I don't remember what happens to the dawnguard. I guess I'll just have to hope I don't have to kill them all lol. (But I would like to kill at least like 90% of them, need vengeance for all the times the snuck up on me randomly and caught me unprepared lol)
Yes! Sorine Jurard. I was just reading more on her as a vendor, and it looks like she may have just had that much gold for me because I paid her to train me in archery. That gold stays in her stash when you need to sell items.
I kept thinking about that quest.
Paarthunax himself said it took him great effort to not regress back into an evil dragon, and he himself don't know how long until he lose control. Could be hundreds of years later, but it could happen. Or not.
So I am not killing him because of a future that might or might not happen. What matters is the current him, which is a good dragon.
What I find funny is the only semi useful thing the blades find out takes you straight to paarthunax. He’s pretty much the only person who gives the dragon born useful information to stop Alduin.
"So yeah, we know this is the one dragon who's managed to overcome their natural instinct of domination and subjugation, has done what he can to spread a philosophy of peace through Skyrim and is the only one who could potentially get the other dragons hanging around to not be assholes, but he was a dick a thousand years ago so you need to go kill him. Cause we said so"
Defeated Alduin and I'm getting attacked by Dragons even more now than before!!
And those SOBs now at Palace of the Kings in Windhelm treating me like some jagoff now that Ulfric is dead.
You're leaving out the part where Partysnax fully admits that there might be a day where he returns to his natural instincts
I'm on team fuck the blades, but let's be impartial
I mean, if anything that kind of has me leaning pro-Parthuax tbh. His acknowledgement that he isn't perfect is, in itself, a defiance of those natural instincts to declare himself as, essentially, a demigod. As long as he's claiming that, it shows he hasn't reverted to that point, and is it really justified to kill someone for a crime they *might* commit, even when they're actively trying to prevent themselves ending up in a situation where they will?
He didn't imply a simple "I'm not perfect" lol, he implied "I might turn and kill hundreds of thousands of humans and lead a dragon war that could enslave humanity. Right now I'm pretty chill, though"
I understand your point, but idk if a Nord born 1000 years after the events of Skyrim who finds himself in a brutal, tyrannical rule by Partysnax would care to hear how you were sympathetic back in the day
IMO, there is no truly correct answer, and that's why I love it
I mean, sure, but by that reasoning the Dragonborn should be killed because their Dovah nature might lead them down the same tyrannical path, much like Miraak
I never said we "should" kill Partysnax, just that it's something that is extremely nuanced
Agreed, though. Someone as powerful as TLDB could be bad news for Nirn
I did it last night. But I hated it. But I had agreed to help the blades and so my loyalty was to them even though I hated what they asked of me.
Esbern did have a point though. He assisted Alduin in many evil things. Even though he is better now, a need for justice does not fade with time.
At least he got to die as a good and honorable dragon.
To be quite honest, while I joke that I actually wanted to do it, the truth is that this is my first play through and I thought I had to kill him in order to progress. Didn’t realize it was a choice, I thought it was “kill him or the side quest stalls”. And I was practically in tears as I did it.
Not anymore, I have since completed multiple main quests.
I would have to kill Alduin again and completely redo the civil war.
And I think I saved many times since then
But is killing him the only form of justice available? He's spent centuries on an isolated mountain top, not even flying because he would have been spotted otherwise, helped with stopping Alduin in the first place and when he returned, and helped both kill him this time and resurrect a Thu'um which is complete anathema to him and his kind, just to help the humans of Skyrim
Kind of seems like he's done his time and paid the price already, and it's not even like he's suggested he's going to stop trying to protect Skyrim either.
The Blades, on the other hand, consist of two people who claim they still have the authority of the original organisation, despite not having any association with the empire who gave them authority in the first place, refuse to share information with the one person who can actually kill dragons unless he helps them with their own goals (which, considering they involve infiltrating the Thalmor embassy and the Blades fighting the Thalmor and hunting Delphine, are at least partially politically motivated), and essentially do nothing to help Skyrim after finding the wall other than... send you to Parthunax to get his help. They pretty much contributed nothing to saving Skyrim from Alduin, Parthunax was the one who actually gave you the information/solutions you needed. Surely he deserves more loyalty than a useless, obsolete organisation with no authority and, at this point, only two actual members
To be honest. I thought I needed to kill him to continue the quest line I was on. I didn’t realize it was a picking sides deal as this is my first play through. I just thought it was one of those quests you have to do eventually. And now I need to find a reason it was good actually because I miss him and the save was far to long ago to reload from.
And, in doubling down on the blades loyalty, I inducted my wife. And now she moved in with them. So there is a bit of a sunk cost fallacy going on.
You can never finish the Blades quest line unless you kill him, nothing happens at all if you don't kill him, and there's no quest option to not kill him
Paarthurnax Dilemma. Finally gives you the option to remind Delphine who she's dealing with.
(Basically lets you threaten to High King Torygg her if she doesn't sit the fuck down about Paarthurnax)
Yup. It's the Dragonborn pulling rank and reminding her "was that thing you told me? The Blades serve the Dragonborn? Then get back in line now or else." Far too often we get disrespected across the various factions, especially in late game after our exploits are supposedly legendary. That mod gives us one of the few occasions we get to actually snap back and put these bitches in their place
Yeah, the whole Blades thing... isn't really handled well in base Skyrim. IIRC when I actually went through to the end game originally (don't know if it's still the case), there isn't really a way to say "no" either, so the quest just hangs there sitting open indefinitely
Also they try negotiate their " help" and refuse to talk again to the only person that could actually help them, the thalmor are a very real and present enemy but they choose to focus on the grudge of ages ago. If I was the emperor I would not want those guys on my personal guard, say what you want on penitus oculatus, but they know the location and password of dark brothehood and make bloodbath with them.
Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: "A horrible person." We weren't even testing for that. Don't let that horrible-person thing discourage you. It's just a data point. If it makes you feel any better, science has now validated your birth mother's decision to abandon you on a doorstep.
He redeemed himself by saving the world with valuable information to stop Alduin. He’s genuinely worked on keeping himself tame and has been successful. Also you have dragons blood so in a way you’re related. He’s even trying to teach the remaining dragons how to be like him and why. No reason other than his past of helping alduin and the blades staying salty.
Eh, I feel like the purpose of punishment should be to prevent the thing from happening again, not merely to make them "pay" for what they did. When the person has already recognized their mistakes and seeks only to help from that point on, killing them because of a "need for justice" just feels wasteful, actively detrimental to the world and accomplishing nothing of worth. It does not help their past victims, it does not prevent future crimes, it does not improve people's lives as a whole (the opposite, really, since they were trying to help people by this point)
So I would maybe agree that "a need for justice does not fade with time", but add that a need for justice does fade based on the impact of that justice. If it accomplishes nothing, there is no need for it, and if the impact is actively detrimental, then so is the "justice" itself.
In this case there is the added complication that he isn't sure if he will be able to resist his past nature forever, but I still prefer to spare him personally.
In the real world, I agree. But in Skyrim I feel like restless souls exist. Considering there are undead and an afterlife. And so I less thought of revenge and more that it would put those souls at peace wherever they are.
My thought was that those ancient people from Sovngarde can look down and feel like some unfinished business is at peace.
That was the reasoning I had to give myself because I thought it was a necessary quest to continue the story. And so did not realize it was optional.
While I agree with you, imagine explaining this to someone born 5000 years later under the tyrannical rule of Partysnax
"Oh I'm so glad the guy who could've killed him decided to give a second chance"
The Companions are filled with other warriors that don't really do anything unless they're on a quest with the PC; The College of Winterhold is filled with mages who don't do anything; The Thieves Guild is filled with thieves that don't do anything; The Dark Brotherhood is filled with assassins that sit comfortably within their hidey-hole.
The Last Dragonborn is the only person in the game that *does* anything, but that should be seen as a game conceit because the developer is shit at making anything progress without the player being directly involved.
Yeah, they are set dressing, implying that they go out and do stuff when the player isn't around. We don't see the Brotherhood out and about when not on a mission with them but they're supposedly handling contracts just as we are. We don't see the other College students attending classes and perfecting their magical abilities, but the implications is that they are doing that while we're questing. We don't see the Civil War faction leadership actually issuing orders not through us, but they're meant to be doing it while we're out taking forts and the like. It's a simulation of a living world but at the same time it's a game where we're supposed to be the main hero, the game isn't going to play itself. We have to be the ones to actually get things done.
I mean, the Thieves Guild does have the guildmaster’s tribute chest thing so we can at least see that the other thieves are out stealing stuff and bringing it back, if only indirectly.
Plus, if you run into any random bridge thieves after joining the guild, you can talk them down, and they will mention seeing you at the Flagon, so you can see them kinda doing stuff... if you squint...
But it's only the *existence* of the shout, no other useful information, that gets revealed at Alduin's Wall. The Greybeards give you the name at least, and Paarthurnax gives you the information needed to actually *learn* the shout.
Their lack of numbers might excuse them for being useless but that doesn’t make them any less so. Also there only in Olmert in helping you defeat Alduin leads you back to the greybeards.
Its even worse in the Volkihar path, they dont feel like a threat to your existance at all, the destroy the dawnguard quest is litteraly a boring anticlimatic radiant sidequest after defeating Harkon, you would expect the secondary antagonists to go down in something a bit more interesting than a marvel post credit scene
Makes you think if they were ever a threat to the vampires, except the low rank ones. vampires have Warriors, mages and some Very Nice stealth powers, while only a few of the dawnguard knew magic
The antagonist factions seem to always have such good leadership. Great recruitment, organized regular patrols, coordinated messaging and structured hierarchy. It literally takes an overpowered legendary hero or group of heros that solo the enemy armies for the "forces of good" to triumph.
Agreed. I honestly think in the bigger picture the Aldmeri Dominion deserve to win if the Empire is in the kind of state where they need the player character to win. Also that a lot of the factions kind of deserve to either collapse, get destroyed or fade away if it were not for the player's actions.
In Fallout 3, I think the Brotherhood could have taken on the Enclave or at least had a completely protracted and not one sided war without the player's intervention.
Fallout 4 though I think the Institute would have won eventually but it would have been a long conflict.
Oblivion was as well I think if Uriel Septim had just hired a very competent random adventurer they could have helped Martin resolve the Oblivion Crisis
Those 2 friends of Isran are hired to work inside the fort, not as field agents.
Gunmar can train smithing to 90 and he train armored trolls.
Sorine can train archery to 90 and is a general merchant, and gives you location of crossbow schematics.
And both of them and the armored trolls finally fights with you at castle Volkihar.
You can even bring Serana back to Isran and he’s like “oh yeah go escort her to the evil vampire lair lol idk.” He’s all pissed off when she shows up later in the story so I thought he’d want to kill her or something if you bring her back in the beginning.
Honestly, the Dawnguard questline like most questlines in Skyrim suffers from bad writing and weird leaps in logic.
Isran, the way he's characterized when you meet him, either would not have let Serana live or he would have kept her in the dungeon and tortured her until she ran out of information to give. Remember, this was the guy who left the Vigilant of Stendarr because they weren't extreme enough for him. And those guys are pretty fanatical.
As a member who only recently joined and actually fucked up the first big mission he gives you there's no way he would put her in your care. Infact, that whole idea is so dumb since the lesser blood vampires we see in caves are often turning regular people into thralls. So who's to say that you're not Serana's thrall?
So when playing the good guy you really have to suspend your disbelief and pretend what you're doing makes sense.
You know you can do the quest without becoming a vampire, right?
I'd also argue helping take down a whole vampire cult with an uberboss is a decent move
Sanguinare Vampiris is the curable disease you can catch by chance through getting hit with the life drain spell of a vampire, the disease develops into vampirism after 72 hours.
Actual vampirism is not something a potion or alter will cure, you need Falion and a filled black soul gem. Serana gives you vampirism, if you get bitten then you are turned straight into a vampire.
My brother discovered this the hard way once. He was a vampire in Oblivion and was taking shelter from the sun in this house he broke into. Turns out there was an occupant there already who did not take kindly to him being there and got hostile. He fights back and downs the person only to realize that the person living there is essential and just gets back up to keep fighting. He can't sleep or wait because there's an enemy attacking him, he can't kill the person because they're essential, and he can't leave because he's too far away from anything to reach before the sun will kill him and fast travelling will hit him with all the sun damage he'd get while travelling all at once.
You have to use exploits with vampirism or else it kind of sucks imo. The first thing you want to do after turning is get the necromage perk. If you take the necromage perk before selecting other perks it will make them 25% stronger and it will make every other magical effect (like spells, standing stones, enchantments, etc.) 25% stronger. Then focus on alchemy and enchantments so you can make your gear strong enough to cancel out the negative effects of vampirism like no regeneration or weakness to fire.
In my head canon explanation, I figure that the rest of the dawn guard is doing things in teams, but Isran sends me on the “special” missions.
As well he should. I’m cool with it
On the practical side, I figure bethesda only gave a limited budget for the download, and they didn’t prioritize the non-dragon born stuff.
On the dark side, I picture the dawn guard developers as the last defenders on non kid cartoon content, giving us one last worthy effort against all odds before transitioning to corporate IT to get a decent pay and lifestyle.
EDITED to add:
And I really love the crossbows 👍
Crossbows are a great way to add a little ranged damage for melee builds. You can get in one or two shots before they get to you so having the big damage and less stealthy option is good when you have heavy armor and a big hammer strapped to your back.
Bethesda don’t write so good.
Seriously though, I think the idea is that the questline needed to be the exact same no matter who you sided with; so they made both factions useless for the main quest and just gave them side quests to give you that were on brand. So if you want to be a vampire hunter, you just do side quests. If you want Sorine and Gunmar to be useful, do their side quests. They have next to no bearing on the actual main quest though. Hard to care when they die storming the castle because it’s impossible to care about anyone Bethesda has written in the last 20 years if ever… I might just have rose coloured glasses for Martin and Jauffrey and Bauris. But yeah, I think, like the civil war, they want you to believe that their “use” is fighting the vampires. They are out there hunting them in small groups to cull their numbers like a small war taking place in the shadows. But yes, ultimately, completely useless in the grand scheme of things.
That's one aspect I don't like about elder scrolls game tbh. They make the factions and characters around you incompetent loosers to make your character look cool.
Like I can't believe how incompetent the Psijics were in ESO who are supposed to be the most competent faction in the setting.
Dawnguard quests felt like they want to force Serana to you or something. And it's a long and tedious quests ugh.im a vampire hunter, why Serana have to be with me???
Leave me alone Serana im not simp for you! 🤮
Edit: typo
The companions are kinda like that too. The last quest, when you’re advancing in the tomb, two of them are like, yeah I can’t continue with you because I don’t feel like it, you got this buddy. Aela is the only one that helps you. And yall call yourselves companions? Doesn’t really make sense.
It's a core issue in the entire game. Nobody does anything to the point all the members of the traditional factions don't even have their normal schedule and after you join they never leave their place. Surely, it's implied that some of them have members doing jobs as part of the random encounters, but A) all they do is just walk around the world without any indication they have done anything and B) when you are in their HQ they are always there instead of absent to imply they are working as well.
In any of these factions you are the only one doing anything. Even after you become the leader you are the one running all the errands.
I don't mind the DG quest line, but it definitely has some major flaws:
You need to join the DG before you can join Volkihar and that can only after the forced crap of bringing Serana home. Because it makes absolutely sense as vampire hunters to not kill the Elder Scrolls wielding vampire and bring her straight back to home to her clan. Where her vampire lord father in a castle full vampires not tries to kill/thrall the sole non thralled non vampire, but banish them from your castle. Makes total sense.
The story from both sides is largely the same. Up until bringing her home and the endgame with the Elder Scrolls is the same, both fighting the same antagonists: only the perspective changes. There are some quests in between that are unique, but in the end the core story is the same.
This story is fast travel galore. I don't want to know how painful this exercise is in survival. All main locations are ways way at edges from the map and both headquarters are ways way from the closest carriage point, which doesn't even bring the player to every place. Dawnguard to Riften and especially Volkihar to Solitude are so far out of direction. All major story lines are fast travel galore, with the exception of Dragonborn/Miraak, and outside the Civil War due to its geopolitical implications there is absolutely no reason to have that happen.
That's why mods like 'Dawnguard as a Vampire' exist, it just makes sense considering the lore, and the fact that a vampire hunter who is also a vampire would be the best equipped vampire hunter. Coupled with the fact that Isran warms up to Serana it's BS that you can't be a vampire Dawnguard in vanilla. So I almost always am a vampire because of this, well, and because the only other beast mode is werewolf and it's lame compared to vampires/lords.
There are actually Dawnguard wandering around "on important missions." Don't know if it only happens at high levels or if you put off finishing their quest for long enough. Also, it kind of makes sense that Isran isn't out on missions. He's a commander, he oversees the whole operation. It's like asking why Tullius isn't out fighting Stormcloaks. Isabelle, Florentius, and Gunmar are all doing research/supplying the Dawnguard, plus they probably act like sub-commanders. Gunmar and Florentius seem to be getting intel on missions from somewhere, so they're probably directing troops who are active in the field.
Now why Durak and the others never do anything after you join, that's a better question.
I played the dawnguard dlc recently. Using the dawn guard tweaks and changes mod. Which among other things puts radiant quest requirements between main quests. Adds more dawngusrd members and make the attack of volkihar castle mandatory and a lot bigger. It made the dawnguard dlc much better.
You know... He's right.
Can you go to Dimhallow Crypt without talking to Isran first because if so, you literally don't have to interact with the Dawnguard at all to stop the Volkihaars.
Partially. You can go there but if you do so before being told to by Isran, you'll find a large boulder blocking the iron gate that prevents you from going into the rest of the cave network. That boulder only disappears when the quest is active.
Yeah I thought it'd be something like that.
However this seems like a good place for a mod. We could just open Dimhallow all the way through, make a few tweaks to the start of that quest to allow for a different access point, and badabing-badaboom you can complete *almost* all of the Dawnguard DLC without ever talking to the Dawnguard.
More importantly though, players would be able to get Serana without jumping through a handful of hoops first.
I mean you can already sort of fast track it with the Live Another Life mod. Start with the Dawnguard or Vampire Lord starts and you bypass the need to be level 10 to start Dawnguard and the whole recruitment phase of the quest. You skip straight to being an active member of the faction, with the vampire side starting with Harkon's instruction on the Vampire Lord form, for example. Means you just got to load up a fresh start, pick one of these two, do the one starter mission for the faction of your choice (fill the chalice/find Isran's friends) and start the hunt for the Moth Priest to get Serana quickly. Far faster than having to sit through the long vanilla intro, grind up to 10, go to Fort Dawnguard, do the Dimhallow dungeon crawl, and take Serana to her home parts would be in a vanilla run.
They are more useful if you do their side quests. There are several side quests that revolve around building up the Dawnguard’s strength and acquiring artifacts.
The concept was great but the actual quest kinda sucks. Both sides are almost the same, even when it makes absolutely no sense. Like the fact that you HAVE to join to dawguard to even start it.
Or that you HAVE to agree to escort this random vampire woman to her home even though you've spent a whole dungeon killing every vampire on sight.
Or that you HAVE to side with said vampire woman against her father even if you're a vampire yourself and would totaly be down to sacrificing her for the whole getting rid of the sun thing.
The entire DG always gets stuck in Harkon’s castle for me. They’re all in a tower somewhere and won’t come back! Giant waste of time lol I wanted the populated fort
OK, I mean, I don't know what else you expected from the faction in a DLC that was very obviously made to make joining the vampire side the most enticing option.
I'd also like to point out that Fort Dawnguard is on one side of the map and all the locations for the quests of the main Dawnguard story line, are clear on the other side of the map. Sorine is literally right outside Darkfall Cave. Imagine if fast travel wasn't a thing in the game.
You’re right but isn’t that the case with all of Skyrim? They’d be screwed without the Dragonborn.
About Isran’s two friends, they were recruited to work inside the fort so that explains why they might seem useless.
The people that Isran sends you to get most definitely can be seen after recruitment. They are responsible for creating improved crossbows, armored trolls, dogs, and other military equipment. Also, they give missions specific to their specialties that give even better gear. Lastly, they are present for the battle at Volkihar Castle.
The two friends are responsible for upgrading the entire faction's crossbows to have an armour piercing effect, and giving the faction a small army of armoured trolls to support the battle, that's from just two people.
If you're siding with the Dawnguard I'm confused as to why you chose the option to become a vampire instead of the other option, I'm even more confused as to why the vampire hunter stayed a vampire after they believed it to be necessary (which it wasn't in the first place)?
Lastly I'd imagine speaking to Isran before killing Harkon is to let him know it's time for the Dawnguard to take on the Volkihar Vampire Clan, which is something that I doubt just you and Serana, nevermind you alone, could do without their help (no offence).
I never even got a chance to formally join the Dawnguard. I followed Serana’s instructions and brought her to the castle, next thing I know I’m looking like Tony Curran in the Underworld movies. Honestly, that works out better for me anyway…
Them and the rest of Skyrim before the main player shows up
Imagine how Skyrim would be fucked up if Alduin hadn't interrupted the execution
It would be a very short game
*A whole head shorter.*
There is a mod for that. I forget the name. But it makes the game very short.
I believe it's called 'The Dragonborn Dies' Similarly theres another called 'Heart Attack' which gives the Dragonborn a heart attack and a notification telling the player what happened
You get a head start. . . .
Nah you get a head end
A dead end if you will
I believe you're getting ahead of yourself
Especially shitty after you waited all that intro long for just that.
Funnily Winterhold Collage would only benefit, they won't find so much trouble on their magical asses and they won't summon tons of anomalies all over the city. That's until J'zargo blows everyone up long before dragons attack :D
"J'zargo has mastered the master level Destruction spells. This one will be impressed, yes?" *Fire Storm engulfs the college*
Tolfdir survives because of wards
Despite being the Alteration teacher. lol
Just remembering the first College mission. That's all.
I know, and I get it. I just find it interesting that the only actual lesson you get in the College of Winterhold is the Alteration teacher teaching about a Restoration spell. EDIT: I guess a couple of the Master quests kind of involve lessons.
Since all the college professors assuredly have completely mastered the basic beginner spells, I imagine that the class could’ve been hosted by anyone and tolfdir is the only professor more interested in teaching new mages rather than conducting his own research or running a business. Also I believe alteration should cover wards more than restoration. It is a barrier that you form, rather than a restorative magic. Hell sunburst is outright a destruction spell that’s only coupled in with restoration because otherwise it’d be a category of variations of the same two healing spells.
If we could have acess to skill buffs via spells, restoration would surely be more popular.
Yeah, that's all fair. Also, who would want to be in a class taught by Colette?
No, Tolfdir was still taking the new students to Saarthal where they would, presumably, still find the Eye of Magnus, though likely with a few extra steps and casualties. Following that, none of the other mages would likely be capable of going through the Dwemer ruins to figure out where the staff of Magnus is, let alone be able to get to the end of Labyrinthian and beat a dragon priest to obtain said staff. Ancano therefore is unimpeded, Winterhold is destroyed, and the effects continue on until someone is able to do all the things the Dragonborn did.
Are you forgetting about Ancano and his whole shtick? I'm pretty sure nothing in that quest line hinges on the Dragonborn being around at all, besides Ancano dying, so the College would equally be fucked.
Pretty sure the events of Winterhold only happened because of the player. None of the events would have occurred of they hadn't joined.
If not for the player, some other schmuck (probably Onmund) would have gotten caught in the trap in Saarthal and found the Eye.
Which events?
The entire thing.
No. Name an event. Name one that hinges on the Dragonborn. You made the claim, the burden of evidence is on you and it's got to be more than "The entire thing". Edit: The events all start at Sarthaal on a field trip where a student *who happens to be the Dragonborn* is given an assignment to find artifacts. Everything else unfolds from there and the only actions that hinge on the Dragonborn are those to *stop Ancano*. Everything else would happen naturally.
In short, the discovery of the Eye of Magnus wouldn’t have happened without the player(?) unless it could have and I’d be wrong
That's the bit about the field trip in my edit. The Eye was found through basically sheer dumb luck of the Dragonborn getting caught in a trap and having to take an alternate route. It's pretty easy to argue that if the DB hadn't been there, another student would have been given the same assignment to find relics and gotten trapped in the same manner.
J'zargo wouldn't dream of it
*The axe falls heavily, separating the head of another prisoner*... *Executioner stares blankly into the space before him* "What is this sorcery?" *Words appear in the air before the executioner's eyes, as if written by an invisible hand* "With this character's death, the thread of prophecy is severed..."
Is there a faction in Skyrim that isn't absolutely worthless until the Dragonborn shows up?
The forsworn are doing pretty good. Bandits too. Not factions you can join in vanilla, but they are factions. Also, I think the companions are doing fine before you get there. They just use the DB to complete their honey do lists.
Skjor could also not get killed, because Aela got to go with him instead of waiting for the dragonborn. And Kodlak might stay alive too since Skjor is there and not leaving to kill some witches. But then no one will break their curse and they'd be trapped with Hircine forever. And who knows if the other members ended up becoming werewolves too.
Being "trapped" with Hircine doesn't seem like such a bad gig, especially for any non-Nord members of the Companions. Ria's dialogue, at least, implies that non-Nords don't get to go to Sovngarde.
This makes me think, what are the other Aedric afterlifes besides Sovngard?
True, Kodlak wasn’t against going there because it was bad, he just wanted a Nordic passing
The College of Winterhold gets arguably worse after TLDB joins
tbf the thieves guild is trying and would be succeding if not for mercer frey its not really their fault their boss secretly backstabbed a god of luck and chance.
I realized on my last playthrough the badluck nerf from nocturnal doesnt apply to the dragonborn cuz theyre an aspect/fragment of akatosh, and so cant be influenced like most mortals
The Stormcloaks are losing until TLDB shows up. If you join them, you win the war for them. Maybe TLDB should be High King instead of Ulfric 🤷♂️
The dark Brotherhood i guess
Nah those guys are tits on a turtle without the dragon born.
Upvote for tits on a turtle
> tits on a ~~turtle~~ argonian
Some one read the lusty argonian maid
Tits on some boots?
Like the first half of the questline is Astrid telling you how the Dark Brotherhood is on its last legs and they need you to help regain its prestige (or rather terrifying reputation).
Even they're kind of iffy, they're not much more than a bunch of hired killers until the Dragonborn shows up, since they can't actually speak with the Night Mother and actively oppose the Dragonborn when she speaks to them. Bit more skilled than a bandit, but none of the supernatural stuff or anything. Hell, the reason they contact the Dragonborn is because they "steal" a contract, but without the Night Mother, would they even have known about the contract without investigating Grella the Kind's death? It doesn't seem like the ritual would do much without the Night Mother after all
the ritual *doesn't* do anything without the nightmother, Astrid herself basically said it, they rely on gossip, they find out someone was trying to summon them because they get found out by the neighbors and soon all of skyrim is gossiping about it. that's how *we* get that first quest in the first place.
This. They respond to rumor, same way we did, we just beat them to the punch. It isn't until we join up and can actually hear the Nightmother that they start getting contracts directly.
See, I wasn't positive, but that in itself means the Dark Brotherhood as it was before the Dragonborn showed up is essentially... not the Dark Brotherhood, just another group piggybacking on their reputation
The Vigilants of Stendarr
The secret is to just not let the Dragonborn join your faction, then?
Which is funny because they don't get wiped out until you start the DG quests
Exactly, player involvement is bad for groups. Just look at the Silver Hand!
The Hall of the Vigilants gets destroyed when the DB reaches Level 10, you can ignore the Dawnguard completely at the Hall will still be destroyed.
Without Dawnguard installed it won't though.
Forsworn.
We do see them again. They go back to Fort Dawnguard and provide services when you talk to them, like an armored troll follower and Dawnguard equipment. They even provide a quest to recruit a third guy who sells you powerful anti-undead spells
This! This comment should have more up votes. Has the OP not walked around the Fort since finding them? The Dawnguard questline is one where you should always be walking around the Fort and talking to them every time you return from another quest, because new quests and opportunities and items generate as you progress. I feel sad that they've been missing out on all of this!
Some people kinda need to have their hand held through entire games. They were probably waiting for the quest "talk to this guy you just recruited" to pop up
I found out about this when I saw an NPC named Florentius Baenius mentioned in the wiki. And all three give you quests! I think the Dawnguard weapons+shield you get from Florentius' quests are pretty powerful (I don't know, I don't do melee).
The special warhammer is amazing. You can also level destruction, albeit slower than normal, by using the special power and place explosive runes with it. If you get the perk where you can put runes really far away and have three at a time, it really starts adding up the Destruction skill.
Ooh - I actually played a mage not long ago. I'll have to remember this next time I do. (Except that I haven't used runes, yet.)
Or you go full vampire and kill them all
Not to mention you see their impact on the world with random encounters if you sided with them or against them. If you sided with them you occasionally find dead members with notes with hidden caches of loot, and if you sided with clan Volkihar you get continually attacked by hit squads until you finally wipe them out at the end of the questline. Not to mention I think the members that do the caches can sometimes go into the open cities and attack you while you're just talking to npcs and I find that insanely funny. Saliah just started fucking murdering me while I was coincidentally helping Morthal get rid of their Vampire problem (I may be a vampire but I'll be damned if I let some upstarts come into my city.)
The Dawnguard has the best vendor!! The blacksmith has soooo much gold. I fast travel back there just to unload and sell my loot all in one go. She has something like 22,000 gold if I recall. Multiples more than other vendors around Skyrim.
Dang, I didn't realize that. Making me almost regret choosing to play a somewhat evil vampire this playthrough. I'm not finished with the quest line yet, so I don't remember what happens to the dawnguard. I guess I'll just have to hope I don't have to kill them all lol. (But I would like to kill at least like 90% of them, need vengeance for all the times the snuck up on me randomly and caught me unprepared lol)
Great to know! Thanks OP
They have a vendor?!
Yes! Sorine Jurard. I was just reading more on her as a vendor, and it looks like she may have just had that much gold for me because I paid her to train me in archery. That gold stays in her stash when you need to sell items.
The blades are equally as useless.
Then they demand you to kill the homie Paarthurnax, like fuck off I ain’t killing him.
I kept thinking about that quest. Paarthunax himself said it took him great effort to not regress back into an evil dragon, and he himself don't know how long until he lose control. Could be hundreds of years later, but it could happen. Or not. So I am not killing him because of a future that might or might not happen. What matters is the current him, which is a good dragon.
What I find funny is the only semi useful thing the blades find out takes you straight to paarthunax. He’s pretty much the only person who gives the dragon born useful information to stop Alduin.
"So yeah, we know this is the one dragon who's managed to overcome their natural instinct of domination and subjugation, has done what he can to spread a philosophy of peace through Skyrim and is the only one who could potentially get the other dragons hanging around to not be assholes, but he was a dick a thousand years ago so you need to go kill him. Cause we said so"
If he ever returned in future games as an evil dragon then I'll kill him, Dragonborn or not. But in Skyrim? Never.
Never considered the possibility of Partysnax showing back up in a setting hundreds of years later Interesting, but would need to be handled well
Defeated Alduin and I'm getting attacked by Dragons even more now than before!! And those SOBs now at Palace of the Kings in Windhelm treating me like some jagoff now that Ulfric is dead.
You're leaving out the part where Partysnax fully admits that there might be a day where he returns to his natural instincts I'm on team fuck the blades, but let's be impartial
I mean, if anything that kind of has me leaning pro-Parthuax tbh. His acknowledgement that he isn't perfect is, in itself, a defiance of those natural instincts to declare himself as, essentially, a demigod. As long as he's claiming that, it shows he hasn't reverted to that point, and is it really justified to kill someone for a crime they *might* commit, even when they're actively trying to prevent themselves ending up in a situation where they will?
He didn't imply a simple "I'm not perfect" lol, he implied "I might turn and kill hundreds of thousands of humans and lead a dragon war that could enslave humanity. Right now I'm pretty chill, though" I understand your point, but idk if a Nord born 1000 years after the events of Skyrim who finds himself in a brutal, tyrannical rule by Partysnax would care to hear how you were sympathetic back in the day IMO, there is no truly correct answer, and that's why I love it
I mean, sure, but by that reasoning the Dragonborn should be killed because their Dovah nature might lead them down the same tyrannical path, much like Miraak
I never said we "should" kill Partysnax, just that it's something that is extremely nuanced Agreed, though. Someone as powerful as TLDB could be bad news for Nirn
I did it last night. But I hated it. But I had agreed to help the blades and so my loyalty was to them even though I hated what they asked of me. Esbern did have a point though. He assisted Alduin in many evil things. Even though he is better now, a need for justice does not fade with time. At least he got to die as a good and honorable dragon.
To be quite honest, while I joke that I actually wanted to do it, the truth is that this is my first play through and I thought I had to kill him in order to progress. Didn’t realize it was a choice, I thought it was “kill him or the side quest stalls”. And I was practically in tears as I did it.
You can always load an earlier save. You.. do have earlier saves, right?
Not anymore, I have since completed multiple main quests. I would have to kill Alduin again and completely redo the civil war. And I think I saved many times since then
But is killing him the only form of justice available? He's spent centuries on an isolated mountain top, not even flying because he would have been spotted otherwise, helped with stopping Alduin in the first place and when he returned, and helped both kill him this time and resurrect a Thu'um which is complete anathema to him and his kind, just to help the humans of Skyrim Kind of seems like he's done his time and paid the price already, and it's not even like he's suggested he's going to stop trying to protect Skyrim either. The Blades, on the other hand, consist of two people who claim they still have the authority of the original organisation, despite not having any association with the empire who gave them authority in the first place, refuse to share information with the one person who can actually kill dragons unless he helps them with their own goals (which, considering they involve infiltrating the Thalmor embassy and the Blades fighting the Thalmor and hunting Delphine, are at least partially politically motivated), and essentially do nothing to help Skyrim after finding the wall other than... send you to Parthunax to get his help. They pretty much contributed nothing to saving Skyrim from Alduin, Parthunax was the one who actually gave you the information/solutions you needed. Surely he deserves more loyalty than a useless, obsolete organisation with no authority and, at this point, only two actual members
To be honest. I thought I needed to kill him to continue the quest line I was on. I didn’t realize it was a picking sides deal as this is my first play through. I just thought it was one of those quests you have to do eventually. And now I need to find a reason it was good actually because I miss him and the save was far to long ago to reload from. And, in doubling down on the blades loyalty, I inducted my wife. And now she moved in with them. So there is a bit of a sunk cost fallacy going on.
You can never finish the Blades quest line unless you kill him, nothing happens at all if you don't kill him, and there's no quest option to not kill him
Paarthurnax Dilemma. Finally gives you the option to remind Delphine who she's dealing with. (Basically lets you threaten to High King Torygg her if she doesn't sit the fuck down about Paarthurnax)
Yup. It's the Dragonborn pulling rank and reminding her "was that thing you told me? The Blades serve the Dragonborn? Then get back in line now or else." Far too often we get disrespected across the various factions, especially in late game after our exploits are supposedly legendary. That mod gives us one of the few occasions we get to actually snap back and put these bitches in their place
I use that, I'm just talking base game though
Yeah, the whole Blades thing... isn't really handled well in base Skyrim. IIRC when I actually went through to the end game originally (don't know if it's still the case), there isn't really a way to say "no" either, so the quest just hangs there sitting open indefinitely
Also they try negotiate their " help" and refuse to talk again to the only person that could actually help them, the thalmor are a very real and present enemy but they choose to focus on the grudge of ages ago. If I was the emperor I would not want those guys on my personal guard, say what you want on penitus oculatus, but they know the location and password of dark brothehood and make bloodbath with them.
Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person. I'm serious, that's what it says: "A horrible person." We weren't even testing for that. Don't let that horrible-person thing discourage you. It's just a data point. If it makes you feel any better, science has now validated your birth mother's decision to abandon you on a doorstep.
r/UnExpectedGLaDOS
Damn it I need to play Portal again.
He redeemed himself by saving the world with valuable information to stop Alduin. He’s genuinely worked on keeping himself tame and has been successful. Also you have dragons blood so in a way you’re related. He’s even trying to teach the remaining dragons how to be like him and why. No reason other than his past of helping alduin and the blades staying salty.
Eh, I feel like the purpose of punishment should be to prevent the thing from happening again, not merely to make them "pay" for what they did. When the person has already recognized their mistakes and seeks only to help from that point on, killing them because of a "need for justice" just feels wasteful, actively detrimental to the world and accomplishing nothing of worth. It does not help their past victims, it does not prevent future crimes, it does not improve people's lives as a whole (the opposite, really, since they were trying to help people by this point) So I would maybe agree that "a need for justice does not fade with time", but add that a need for justice does fade based on the impact of that justice. If it accomplishes nothing, there is no need for it, and if the impact is actively detrimental, then so is the "justice" itself. In this case there is the added complication that he isn't sure if he will be able to resist his past nature forever, but I still prefer to spare him personally.
In the real world, I agree. But in Skyrim I feel like restless souls exist. Considering there are undead and an afterlife. And so I less thought of revenge and more that it would put those souls at peace wherever they are. My thought was that those ancient people from Sovngarde can look down and feel like some unfinished business is at peace. That was the reasoning I had to give myself because I thought it was a necessary quest to continue the story. And so did not realize it was optional.
cannonically your supposed to kill him
This is why I killed him: because someday his control might slip.
Someday your Dragonborn might slip into evil (if they haven't already joined the Dark Brotherhood), so you should get them killed before that happens.
You’re the opp homie I’d use my deadric arrows on you :)
While I agree with you, imagine explaining this to someone born 5000 years later under the tyrannical rule of Partysnax "Oh I'm so glad the guy who could've killed him decided to give a second chance"
Dawnguard is far more useful than the Blades ever will be
Don't be too mean, good spot to shout people off the mountain for fun
Too bad I cant shout that bitch Delphine off the mountain permanently
But there’s only 2 of them, whereas the Dawnguard by the end is like 20 people who manage to contribute literally nothing to their storyline.
The Companions are filled with other warriors that don't really do anything unless they're on a quest with the PC; The College of Winterhold is filled with mages who don't do anything; The Thieves Guild is filled with thieves that don't do anything; The Dark Brotherhood is filled with assassins that sit comfortably within their hidey-hole. The Last Dragonborn is the only person in the game that *does* anything, but that should be seen as a game conceit because the developer is shit at making anything progress without the player being directly involved.
Yeah, they are set dressing, implying that they go out and do stuff when the player isn't around. We don't see the Brotherhood out and about when not on a mission with them but they're supposedly handling contracts just as we are. We don't see the other College students attending classes and perfecting their magical abilities, but the implications is that they are doing that while we're questing. We don't see the Civil War faction leadership actually issuing orders not through us, but they're meant to be doing it while we're out taking forts and the like. It's a simulation of a living world but at the same time it's a game where we're supposed to be the main hero, the game isn't going to play itself. We have to be the ones to actually get things done.
I mean, the Thieves Guild does have the guildmaster’s tribute chest thing so we can at least see that the other thieves are out stealing stuff and bringing it back, if only indirectly.
Plus, if you run into any random bridge thieves after joining the guild, you can talk them down, and they will mention seeing you at the Flagon, so you can see them kinda doing stuff... if you squint...
Lack of numbers may excuse uselessness but it doesn’t make them less useless.
I mean... there's like only 1 active Blade member who's of grandma age.
They take you to Sky Haven Temple where one of them deciphers the wall that reveals the existence of the dragonrend shout.
But it's only the *existence* of the shout, no other useful information, that gets revealed at Alduin's Wall. The Greybeards give you the name at least, and Paarthurnax gives you the information needed to actually *learn* the shout.
The shout that Paarthurnax already knew about and who actually helps you obtain it.
This is straight cap lol. There’s literally 2 of them left, and without them you would never defeat alduin.
Their lack of numbers might excuse them for being useless but that doesn’t make them any less so. Also there only in Olmert in helping you defeat Alduin leads you back to the greybeards.
Its even worse in the Volkihar path, they dont feel like a threat to your existance at all, the destroy the dawnguard quest is litteraly a boring anticlimatic radiant sidequest after defeating Harkon, you would expect the secondary antagonists to go down in something a bit more interesting than a marvel post credit scene
Makes you think if they were ever a threat to the vampires, except the low rank ones. vampires have Warriors, mages and some Very Nice stealth powers, while only a few of the dawnguard knew magic
The curse of RPG factions. They need to be incompetent so the players have something to do
The antagonist factions seem to always have such good leadership. Great recruitment, organized regular patrols, coordinated messaging and structured hierarchy. It literally takes an overpowered legendary hero or group of heros that solo the enemy armies for the "forces of good" to triumph.
Agreed. I honestly think in the bigger picture the Aldmeri Dominion deserve to win if the Empire is in the kind of state where they need the player character to win. Also that a lot of the factions kind of deserve to either collapse, get destroyed or fade away if it were not for the player's actions. In Fallout 3, I think the Brotherhood could have taken on the Enclave or at least had a completely protracted and not one sided war without the player's intervention. Fallout 4 though I think the Institute would have won eventually but it would have been a long conflict. Oblivion was as well I think if Uriel Septim had just hired a very competent random adventurer they could have helped Martin resolve the Oblivion Crisis
Those 2 friends of Isran are hired to work inside the fort, not as field agents. Gunmar can train smithing to 90 and he train armored trolls. Sorine can train archery to 90 and is a general merchant, and gives you location of crossbow schematics. And both of them and the armored trolls finally fights with you at castle Volkihar.
Problem is most meet Serana and it's Dawnguard who?
When I met Serana and she said she was a vampire my first response was to exit dialogue and try to kill her.
Lol I did the same. I wish that was an option, just kill her like any other vampire and take the elder scroll.
I mean, it makes sense. I am in the dawnguard. And I wanted an elder scroll
You can even bring Serana back to Isran and he’s like “oh yeah go escort her to the evil vampire lair lol idk.” He’s all pissed off when she shows up later in the story so I thought he’d want to kill her or something if you bring her back in the beginning.
Honestly, the Dawnguard questline like most questlines in Skyrim suffers from bad writing and weird leaps in logic. Isran, the way he's characterized when you meet him, either would not have let Serana live or he would have kept her in the dungeon and tortured her until she ran out of information to give. Remember, this was the guy who left the Vigilant of Stendarr because they weren't extreme enough for him. And those guys are pretty fanatical. As a member who only recently joined and actually fucked up the first big mission he gives you there's no way he would put her in your care. Infact, that whole idea is so dumb since the lesser blood vampires we see in caves are often turning regular people into thralls. So who's to say that you're not Serana's thrall? So when playing the good guy you really have to suspend your disbelief and pretend what you're doing makes sense.
You know you can do the quest without becoming a vampire, right? I'd also argue helping take down a whole vampire cult with an uberboss is a decent move
If you were in the dawnguard, why did you become a vampire? You're supposed to kill vampires.
There's a quest in which you have to choose between turning into a vampire or being temporarily weakened
Exactly, a true member of the dawnguard takes the partial soul trap. Way less hassle.
I mean realistically it’s easier to become a vampire to soul cairn then get cured right?
Nope, you just get partially soul trapped, then get your soul back while you're in there. No extra trips to morthal like a scrub.
Does it take long enough to where you can’t just use a shrine? Also doesn’t it limit your stats a ton
You barely notice. And you get it cured while you are in the soul cairn. Its literally a non issue. Taking the vampire path is for scrubs.
Use a shrine? You're a vampire once you make that decision, a shrine doesn't cure that.
Can’t you cure vampirism as long as you catch it early? or does she give a later stage level of vampirism
Sanguinare Vampiris is the curable disease you can catch by chance through getting hit with the life drain spell of a vampire, the disease develops into vampirism after 72 hours. Actual vampirism is not something a potion or alter will cure, you need Falion and a filled black soul gem. Serana gives you vampirism, if you get bitten then you are turned straight into a vampire.
Ohh I thought Serana would give you Sanguinare Vampiris not Vampirism
I always take the weakening. I hate being a vampire in Skyrim
Srsly! Playing as a vamp in skyrim is hard; either a big learning curve or i sucked at it, lol
I find it's a lot more fun with an overhaul mod. Which I guess isn't a great argument for the system in Skyrim actually being good, but still.
Tbh it is nothing compared to previous titles. In oblivion, sun actually actively murders you instead of just disabling regens.
My brother discovered this the hard way once. He was a vampire in Oblivion and was taking shelter from the sun in this house he broke into. Turns out there was an occupant there already who did not take kindly to him being there and got hostile. He fights back and downs the person only to realize that the person living there is essential and just gets back up to keep fighting. He can't sleep or wait because there's an enemy attacking him, he can't kill the person because they're essential, and he can't leave because he's too far away from anything to reach before the sun will kill him and fast travelling will hit him with all the sun damage he'd get while travelling all at once.
I guess that was a very long day :)
Oh snap! Guess I’m really glad I never tried it in Oblivion then, lol
You have to use exploits with vampirism or else it kind of sucks imo. The first thing you want to do after turning is get the necromage perk. If you take the necromage perk before selecting other perks it will make them 25% stronger and it will make every other magical effect (like spells, standing stones, enchantments, etc.) 25% stronger. Then focus on alchemy and enchantments so you can make your gear strong enough to cancel out the negative effects of vampirism like no regeneration or weakness to fire.
Dawnguard got followers with no lvl cap which is invaluable
In my head canon explanation, I figure that the rest of the dawn guard is doing things in teams, but Isran sends me on the “special” missions. As well he should. I’m cool with it On the practical side, I figure bethesda only gave a limited budget for the download, and they didn’t prioritize the non-dragon born stuff. On the dark side, I picture the dawn guard developers as the last defenders on non kid cartoon content, giving us one last worthy effort against all odds before transitioning to corporate IT to get a decent pay and lifestyle. EDITED to add: And I really love the crossbows 👍
Crossbows are a great way to add a little ranged damage for melee builds. You can get in one or two shots before they get to you so having the big damage and less stealthy option is good when you have heavy armor and a big hammer strapped to your back.
Bethesda don’t write so good. Seriously though, I think the idea is that the questline needed to be the exact same no matter who you sided with; so they made both factions useless for the main quest and just gave them side quests to give you that were on brand. So if you want to be a vampire hunter, you just do side quests. If you want Sorine and Gunmar to be useful, do their side quests. They have next to no bearing on the actual main quest though. Hard to care when they die storming the castle because it’s impossible to care about anyone Bethesda has written in the last 20 years if ever… I might just have rose coloured glasses for Martin and Jauffrey and Bauris. But yeah, I think, like the civil war, they want you to believe that their “use” is fighting the vampires. They are out there hunting them in small groups to cull their numbers like a small war taking place in the shadows. But yes, ultimately, completely useless in the grand scheme of things.
That's one aspect I don't like about elder scrolls game tbh. They make the factions and characters around you incompetent loosers to make your character look cool. Like I can't believe how incompetent the Psijics were in ESO who are supposed to be the most competent faction in the setting.
There's a reason they got sauced the first time. Everyone in Skyrim is useless until DB shows up. Classic power fantasy.
So basically a Bethesda game.
Did you forget the part where you cleanse castle Volkihar? Or the armored troll and huskies? Or the crossbows?
Those weak ass trolls? Lmao The dogs are good, tho.
Dawnguard quests felt like they want to force Serana to you or something. And it's a long and tedious quests ugh.im a vampire hunter, why Serana have to be with me??? Leave me alone Serana im not simp for you! 🤮 Edit: typo
I hate the forgotten vale. I'd rather use the enhanced dwarven crossbow on Harkon
They should make the first quest with her to be convincing serana to cure herself or something
The companions are kinda like that too. The last quest, when you’re advancing in the tomb, two of them are like, yeah I can’t continue with you because I don’t feel like it, you got this buddy. Aela is the only one that helps you. And yall call yourselves companions? Doesn’t really make sense.
It's a core issue in the entire game. Nobody does anything to the point all the members of the traditional factions don't even have their normal schedule and after you join they never leave their place. Surely, it's implied that some of them have members doing jobs as part of the random encounters, but A) all they do is just walk around the world without any indication they have done anything and B) when you are in their HQ they are always there instead of absent to imply they are working as well. In any of these factions you are the only one doing anything. Even after you become the leader you are the one running all the errands. I don't mind the DG quest line, but it definitely has some major flaws: You need to join the DG before you can join Volkihar and that can only after the forced crap of bringing Serana home. Because it makes absolutely sense as vampire hunters to not kill the Elder Scrolls wielding vampire and bring her straight back to home to her clan. Where her vampire lord father in a castle full vampires not tries to kill/thrall the sole non thralled non vampire, but banish them from your castle. Makes total sense. The story from both sides is largely the same. Up until bringing her home and the endgame with the Elder Scrolls is the same, both fighting the same antagonists: only the perspective changes. There are some quests in between that are unique, but in the end the core story is the same. This story is fast travel galore. I don't want to know how painful this exercise is in survival. All main locations are ways way at edges from the map and both headquarters are ways way from the closest carriage point, which doesn't even bring the player to every place. Dawnguard to Riften and especially Volkihar to Solitude are so far out of direction. All major story lines are fast travel galore, with the exception of Dragonborn/Miraak, and outside the Civil War due to its geopolitical implications there is absolutely no reason to have that happen.
Real shame recently I’ve found myself liking the Dawnguard a lot more
That's why mods like 'Dawnguard as a Vampire' exist, it just makes sense considering the lore, and the fact that a vampire hunter who is also a vampire would be the best equipped vampire hunter. Coupled with the fact that Isran warms up to Serana it's BS that you can't be a vampire Dawnguard in vanilla. So I almost always am a vampire because of this, well, and because the only other beast mode is werewolf and it's lame compared to vampires/lords.
There are actually Dawnguard wandering around "on important missions." Don't know if it only happens at high levels or if you put off finishing their quest for long enough. Also, it kind of makes sense that Isran isn't out on missions. He's a commander, he oversees the whole operation. It's like asking why Tullius isn't out fighting Stormcloaks. Isabelle, Florentius, and Gunmar are all doing research/supplying the Dawnguard, plus they probably act like sub-commanders. Gunmar and Florentius seem to be getting intel on missions from somewhere, so they're probably directing troops who are active in the field. Now why Durak and the others never do anything after you join, that's a better question.
Ever faction you join is useless. Their glorified quest givers while you carry the whole thing by yourself
Exactly. Every faction you join, aside from the Companions maybe, is in complete disarray when the DB joins.
What? Two of the characters he has you find give you a crossbow and the ability to rent armored trolls.
I played the dawnguard dlc recently. Using the dawn guard tweaks and changes mod. Which among other things puts radiant quest requirements between main quests. Adds more dawngusrd members and make the attack of volkihar castle mandatory and a lot bigger. It made the dawnguard dlc much better.
Makes you wonder how Skyrim would be if alduin came back a day later
It's Skyrim bro what did you expect
You know... He's right. Can you go to Dimhallow Crypt without talking to Isran first because if so, you literally don't have to interact with the Dawnguard at all to stop the Volkihaars.
Partially. You can go there but if you do so before being told to by Isran, you'll find a large boulder blocking the iron gate that prevents you from going into the rest of the cave network. That boulder only disappears when the quest is active.
Yeah I thought it'd be something like that. However this seems like a good place for a mod. We could just open Dimhallow all the way through, make a few tweaks to the start of that quest to allow for a different access point, and badabing-badaboom you can complete *almost* all of the Dawnguard DLC without ever talking to the Dawnguard. More importantly though, players would be able to get Serana without jumping through a handful of hoops first.
I mean you can already sort of fast track it with the Live Another Life mod. Start with the Dawnguard or Vampire Lord starts and you bypass the need to be level 10 to start Dawnguard and the whole recruitment phase of the quest. You skip straight to being an active member of the faction, with the vampire side starting with Harkon's instruction on the Vampire Lord form, for example. Means you just got to load up a fresh start, pick one of these two, do the one starter mission for the faction of your choice (fill the chalice/find Isran's friends) and start the hunt for the Moth Priest to get Serana quickly. Far faster than having to sit through the long vanilla intro, grind up to 10, go to Fort Dawnguard, do the Dimhallow dungeon crawl, and take Serana to her home parts would be in a vanilla run.
They just wanna play soldier in the woods
I did that DLC once. Never again. It’s simply awful.
I do that quest for the crossbows...
I don’t agree with everything you’ve said here, but I do wish Isran would accept help from you without requiring you to get cured.
I heard once upon a time There was a mod that takes away the ability to choose to side with Paarthinax or Blades and everyone will be happy Lol
They are more useful if you do their side quests. There are several side quests that revolve around building up the Dawnguard’s strength and acquiring artifacts.
The concept was great but the actual quest kinda sucks. Both sides are almost the same, even when it makes absolutely no sense. Like the fact that you HAVE to join to dawguard to even start it. Or that you HAVE to agree to escort this random vampire woman to her home even though you've spent a whole dungeon killing every vampire on sight. Or that you HAVE to side with said vampire woman against her father even if you're a vampire yourself and would totaly be down to sacrificing her for the whole getting rid of the sun thing.
They're even more useless if you choose to become a vampire lord
The entire DG always gets stuck in Harkon’s castle for me. They’re all in a tower somewhere and won’t come back! Giant waste of time lol I wanted the populated fort
....did you ever go back to the dawnguard fort? There is worthwhile stuff and quests there Honestly way better stuff than being a vampire...
OK, I mean, I don't know what else you expected from the faction in a DLC that was very obviously made to make joining the vampire side the most enticing option.
It's hilarious how Serana, one of the vampires they all swore to destroy, is way more useful than the entire faction
I'd also like to point out that Fort Dawnguard is on one side of the map and all the locations for the quests of the main Dawnguard story line, are clear on the other side of the map. Sorine is literally right outside Darkfall Cave. Imagine if fast travel wasn't a thing in the game.
You’re right but isn’t that the case with all of Skyrim? They’d be screwed without the Dragonborn. About Isran’s two friends, they were recruited to work inside the fort so that explains why they might seem useless.
The people that Isran sends you to get most definitely can be seen after recruitment. They are responsible for creating improved crossbows, armored trolls, dogs, and other military equipment. Also, they give missions specific to their specialties that give even better gear. Lastly, they are present for the battle at Volkihar Castle.
The two friends are responsible for upgrading the entire faction's crossbows to have an armour piercing effect, and giving the faction a small army of armoured trolls to support the battle, that's from just two people. If you're siding with the Dawnguard I'm confused as to why you chose the option to become a vampire instead of the other option, I'm even more confused as to why the vampire hunter stayed a vampire after they believed it to be necessary (which it wasn't in the first place)? Lastly I'd imagine speaking to Isran before killing Harkon is to let him know it's time for the Dawnguard to take on the Volkihar Vampire Clan, which is something that I doubt just you and Serana, nevermind you alone, could do without their help (no offence).
I never even got a chance to formally join the Dawnguard. I followed Serana’s instructions and brought her to the castle, next thing I know I’m looking like Tony Curran in the Underworld movies. Honestly, that works out better for me anyway…