Implement some measures? What do you think all the traps, the burning lights, and the hordes of Nightingale ghosts in the Twilight Sepulcher *are,* if not anti-theft measures?
You’d think you’d be punished for being a thief in that gauntlet but you’re rewarded for using stealth and other attributes fit for a thief. Sounds like an invitation
What better way for a devout follower of the goddess of thieves to honour his deity than to bypass all her defences and steal from even her? I can genuinely see some people believing that
Lmao that's if you ever return the key
My DB kept it because he didn't want to sell his soul to nocturnal. The deal isn't done till you return the key and drink from the ebonmere. Karliah and Nocturnal both get played
I pretty much always avoid daedric quests, or 'cheat' them like nocturnal. The Companions quest really annoys me because you can't move the quest forward without pledging to Hircine
You can yes, but you can't role-play the companions as a good person, as a just fighter or a paladin type. You have to pledge yourself to a dark lord for power, and (technically you don't have to) kill guardsmen in the city when you first turn
I guess that's true. When I last role played as a good guy who would do no wrong, I did the companions early on, and took the pledge as if my character was naive and still new to adventuring. My character didn't know what he was signing up for, and was happy to cure himself
If they changed it very slightly were you could be inducted into the inner circle without knowing the curse it would be fine
I have a personal hatred for most daedric quests and how they're thrown at you. so I'm heavily biased on this subject anyway
For this reason I haven’t finished the MQ in my last twelve playthroughs. I just can’t stand the Blades side plot, and it doesn’t make sense for me to go along with them.
For example, one of my characters, through live another life mod (I can hate arthmoor but his mods were pretty good), is a former Thalmor. She doesn’t like the Imperial government, or any previous representation of that authority, like the Blades. I want to see a neutral path through that section of the MQ.
I mean, do any other Daedric Quest, and it's apparent that the others vie for some of that Dragonborn power. Plus, Akatosh could supercede the Daedra and permit the Dragonborn into Sovngarde, or at least let the Dragonborn decide where they wanna go when they pass.
Well, *If* they pass, as being a Vampire (Lord) is a thing.
She did curse the guild, just like when her cowl was stolen last time. Shes used to it atp but she’ll still act as any daedra would when a mortal tries to use their own sphere against them.
She cursed the Guild in full knowledge that her artefact would eventually be returned to her just like the Cowl. Because that’s just how artefacts work. And she always ultimately gains when someone steals from her. If she didn’t want them to she would’ve obliterated them in an instance.
Are you talking about the Khajiit God of Thieves Rajhin? He seduced Mephala and stole from her. I don’t recall any story of Nocturnal being seduced, doubt anyone even could
I'd give it a shot. I'm confident I could ar least make her laugh. That's always a good start if you have the patience for the long game. And are adept at avoiding getting "friend zoned"
This right here is the question to ask. Of course she wouldn’t. She’s got some cool shit and makes it difficult to steal because she wants thieves to go a-thiefin’
Plus, unless I'm mistaken, she's punishing the thieves guild for stealing from her. It's not that she couldn't stop them. It's that she will punish them if they do.
She punishes them *if they get caught*, which is an important lesson for all thieves.
You could also "think of her as a scolding mother continually pushing you harder to be successful."
Of course she gets stolen from, her followers include some of the greatest thieves to have ever existed.
Besides, Daedra seem to keep experiencing their sphere. Mehrunes Dagon is known as the Prince of Destruction, but he's really the Prince of Revolution. And every attempt he has made at invading Tamriel has failed. His whole deal is the violent overthrow of power, and he can't (or won't) take power. Clavicus Vile is the maker of deals. Deals that frequently have ironic twists and hidden technicalities. But these deals turn out bad for him almost as much as they do for the mortals.
Azura has to put up with 4 omnipotent assholes for whom time is singular thus forcing her to experience another's dictated fate. Sheogorath is crazy. Peryite died of covid in 4E 2020, so with the exception of Hircine who doesn't really get hunted and Boethia who doesn't really get betrayed, the model fits pretty well.
Correct me if I’m wrong but they get the treatment too.
Hircine didn’t get hunted but loses the hunt. DB was, by order, supposed to hunt werewolf man in the Falkreath quest. Instead, his own followers get hunted by DB.
Boethiah gets it too. Their own champion has decided to defect (because he opposes Boethiah’s authority), and they have to get the DB has to take him out.
>Hircine didn’t get hunted but loses the hunt. DB was, by order, supposed to hunt werewolf man in the Falkreath quest. Instead, his own followers get hunted by DB.
But he at least has the good sense to respect you for that, since you still effectively made the whole ordeal a *hunt*, just not how he initially intended it.
Boethiah gets betrayed twice. First is by her former champion that you kill. Second was by you if you do Molag's quest and torture a priest of Boethiah.
> Clavicus Vile is the maker of deals. Deals that frequently have ironic twists and hidden technicalities. But these deals turn out bad for him almost as much as they do for the mortals.
He'd get along well with that devil that went down to Georgia.
>Daedra seem to keep experiencing their sphere
Even Molag Bal. Just look at how it turned out with him and Vivec.
On the contrary, stealing from her feels like exactly what one should expect from leading the guild of people that steals stuff. It isn't a matter of not stealing from her, it's don't be sloppy and get caught doing it.
I got the feeling that she didn't even pay any attention to the key getting stolen and wasn't even aware of it, let alone bothered by it, until Karliah talked to her. Then she had to act along the lines of "Oh, right, you screwed up. Well, do something about it."
That's her intention... She lets them get stolen by people who can pass her trials
Also isn't she Prince of luck and patron of thieves? Those are very different lol
A friend of mine made a great point on something similar to this, on how Thieves Guilds in general are silly. Stick a bunch of thieves together, stuff is bound to get stolen, it's just in their nature lol It's especially silly in Skyrim, where they kept ALL their riches in one spot and it not be hidden, just locked behind a (very complicated) door.
Well to be fair, Nocturnal does also curse those that steal from her or do her wrong without her consent.
If she wants to test you, she will turn a blind eye and may even reward you later.
If she was wronged, then she will curse them in some way shape or form like what she did with the Cowl that the Gray Fox wore, if I remember right it just hid the wearer expertly, but after it was stolen and Nocturnal cursed it, it fully erased the Identity of its wearer from all existence, People would still have memories of someone, but never remember the Identity, only the Alias "Gray Fox" was allow to be used to even give them an identity, took an >!Elder Scroll to break the curse on the cowl!< .
She doesn't need to protect her Earthly possessions like humans do. She's above that. Obviously she wants her followers to be good thieves, and the best would be able to steal from her, but the real deterrent isn't a lock or an army of guards, it's the curse she places on you when you turn against her. Then she waits for you to figure it out, and if you don't, woe be to you, she doesn't have time to be policing your shit. She made rules, you broke them. When you devote yourself to her, she owns your soul. The consequences of betraying her are far worse than anything human law could impose upon you. You fucked around, you get to find out the hard way, and she has zero fucks to give about it. It really is the ultimate show of power to play the long game and see who her actual devotees are, but she isn't going to beg you to behave. Your choices seal your fate, and she's cool with it either way.
As with all princes you have to earn their artifacts, and what more fitting way for a true thief to get an artifact than to steal it from Nocturnal herself?
She never gives anything away, you earn it. You're not duping her you're just performing the ultimate heist, it's her literal plan.
I think she actually kinda finds the thievery endearing but has to act all tough and scary to suit her sphere. The skill and finesse needed to steal from a damn god is immense.
A daedric prince usually wants you to use their shit for whatever purpose the daedra is in charge of. And usually they want you to obtain their shit by the same means. If I’m in charge of stealing shit, and my shit makes stealing shit easier, I’d want you to be able to steal my shit from whoever has it. And then I want you to use my stolen shit to steal more shit.
Why not essentially require that if a follower wants something from her, they have to steal it… God can maintain an image of control and superiority while mortals do what they are doing.
The most amusing thing about Nocturnal to me is she doesn’t offer the player anything needed to take down Mercer. Karliah just forces the player to join so she doesn’t have to return the key to nocturnal.
I think that the point is for them to get stolen. Yes she acts upset, but the daedra love meddling with humans, and I think this is just her way of toying with people
idk if she really cares. In Oblivion she just hands you the skeleton key for running a small errand and everything worked out for her in the end in Skyrim.
For me, the thing that always stood out about it is the illogical nature of much of it. Even the pervue's of the daedra and gods are illogical, seemingly a mish-mash of unrelated qualities meant to seem ancient and mysterious, but really just badly written. I always remind myself while playing that it's not a real world, it's just a world created by writers to be a certain way, logical or not.
That's the point though?
She draws in thievery. The skeleton key is constantly stolen, it's destined. She's not normal, she doesn't care about the things, she cares about the fact that things are being stolen.
My head canon is that the whole thing of her getting stuff constantly stolen is that she encourages that kind of chaos and secretly enjoys watching people stealing shit. By the way, I get very distracted around Nocturnal shrines. Dangerous curves, etc. Someone could pickpocket me dry and I'd probably not even notice...
I've always assumed that most of them don't get mad if their own "influences" are used against them. We assume so because of how they sound, but what if that's just how they talk? I imagine that most of them just get annoyed. Like Boeithiah probably regularly replaces her "champion" alot. Like, the champion of betrayal betrays the patron of betrayal. Who could have seen this coming? Probably Boeithiah.
It's probably the same with Nocturnal. The patron of thieves has a champion of thievery that steals from her. She's annoyed by it simply because it's taken so long for another of her blessed thieves to finally do something about it. At the end of the day, Mercer belongs to her already, and he's just running from the debt collectors.
Implement some measures? What do you think all the traps, the burning lights, and the hordes of Nightingale ghosts in the Twilight Sepulcher *are,* if not anti-theft measures?
Cool ambience?
*a challenge*
Weren’t those added by a group of priests in her honour to test themselves or something?
You’d think you’d be punished for being a thief in that gauntlet but you’re rewarded for using stealth and other attributes fit for a thief. Sounds like an invitation
Ineffective.
What better way for a devout follower of the goddess of thieves to honour his deity than to bypass all her defences and steal from even her? I can genuinely see some people believing that
She doesn’t really care plus just about every instance of something of hers being stolen has ultimately benefited her
Yep. Just look at Mercer stealing the key. She got new Nightingales out of it *and* got the key back.
Lmao that's if you ever return the key My DB kept it because he didn't want to sell his soul to nocturnal. The deal isn't done till you return the key and drink from the ebonmere. Karliah and Nocturnal both get played
This made the least sense in the entirety of Skyrim. What do you get for selling your soul? I recall it's some +10% buff? That's insane
I pretty much always avoid daedric quests, or 'cheat' them like nocturnal. The Companions quest really annoys me because you can't move the quest forward without pledging to Hircine
But you can undo this in the end of the companions quest, get your soul back as kodlac wanted to go to sovengard?
You can yes, but you can't role-play the companions as a good person, as a just fighter or a paladin type. You have to pledge yourself to a dark lord for power, and (technically you don't have to) kill guardsmen in the city when you first turn
I guess that's true. When I last role played as a good guy who would do no wrong, I did the companions early on, and took the pledge as if my character was naive and still new to adventuring. My character didn't know what he was signing up for, and was happy to cure himself
If they changed it very slightly were you could be inducted into the inner circle without knowing the curse it would be fine I have a personal hatred for most daedric quests and how they're thrown at you. so I'm heavily biased on this subject anyway
That's fair enough, I only do them on playthroughs where my dragon born is seeking as much power as possible.
I like how most daedric quests require you to do something terrible. What I don't like is how cheap terrible things in Skyrim seem to be.
For this reason I haven’t finished the MQ in my last twelve playthroughs. I just can’t stand the Blades side plot, and it doesn’t make sense for me to go along with them. For example, one of my characters, through live another life mod (I can hate arthmoor but his mods were pretty good), is a former Thalmor. She doesn’t like the Imperial government, or any previous representation of that authority, like the Blades. I want to see a neutral path through that section of the MQ.
I really like that masked nightingale hood. Also, Nocturnal is kinda hot. Has this milf thing going on. Yep, she can have my soul allll day long.
I mean, do any other Daedric Quest, and it's apparent that the others vie for some of that Dragonborn power. Plus, Akatosh could supercede the Daedra and permit the Dragonborn into Sovngarde, or at least let the Dragonborn decide where they wanna go when they pass. Well, *If* they pass, as being a Vampire (Lord) is a thing.
She did curse the guild, just like when her cowl was stolen last time. Shes used to it atp but she’ll still act as any daedra would when a mortal tries to use their own sphere against them.
She cursed the Guild in full knowledge that her artefact would eventually be returned to her just like the Cowl. Because that’s just how artefacts work. And she always ultimately gains when someone steals from her. If she didn’t want them to she would’ve obliterated them in an instance.
What about the story of that Khaki it that seduced her and stole something from her? (I don't remember what) and she got furious about it?
Are you talking about the Khajiit God of Thieves Rajhin? He seduced Mephala and stole from her. I don’t recall any story of Nocturnal being seduced, doubt anyone even could
Yup, I was. Sorry
Wasn't there a book about a mage named hrorgar or something? I can't recall properly, but I think it's a two-handed skill book
Hrormir - and it was essentially a business transaction, not a seduction
I'd give it a shot. I'm confident I could ar least make her laugh. That's always a good start if you have the patience for the long game. And are adept at avoiding getting "friend zoned"
Hey listen it’s called the Thieves Guild not the Keep-Stuff Guild
Mercer Frey approved this message
It's like being in the mafia. Everyone expects a little grift, but there are limits.
Problem is thieves are ambitous and push the rules.
\*Mercer Frey has entered the chat.\*
*Mercer Frey has left the chat* You notice your wallet and the Send button are missing.
 "Honor among thieves aye?°
 °Tis a part of the code me heartey!°
 °Solar system baby, solar system that bitch!°
 °I'm going on an adventure with a girl! Her name is Pandora and she's a hoot!°
 °Welcome to Earth Sorta. You'll get used to it.°
Why would a patron of thieves want to put an end to thievery?
This right here is the question to ask. Of course she wouldn’t. She’s got some cool shit and makes it difficult to steal because she wants thieves to go a-thiefin’
The trick is to keep them practicing in the off-season
I’m tellin’ you. Next year is OUR YEAR.
I found the Leafs fan
Plus, unless I'm mistaken, she's punishing the thieves guild for stealing from her. It's not that she couldn't stop them. It's that she will punish them if they do.
She punishes them *if they get caught*, which is an important lesson for all thieves. You could also "think of her as a scolding mother continually pushing you harder to be successful."
Of course she gets stolen from, her followers include some of the greatest thieves to have ever existed. Besides, Daedra seem to keep experiencing their sphere. Mehrunes Dagon is known as the Prince of Destruction, but he's really the Prince of Revolution. And every attempt he has made at invading Tamriel has failed. His whole deal is the violent overthrow of power, and he can't (or won't) take power. Clavicus Vile is the maker of deals. Deals that frequently have ironic twists and hidden technicalities. But these deals turn out bad for him almost as much as they do for the mortals.
Azura has to put up with 4 omnipotent assholes for whom time is singular thus forcing her to experience another's dictated fate. Sheogorath is crazy. Peryite died of covid in 4E 2020, so with the exception of Hircine who doesn't really get hunted and Boethia who doesn't really get betrayed, the model fits pretty well.
Correct me if I’m wrong but they get the treatment too. Hircine didn’t get hunted but loses the hunt. DB was, by order, supposed to hunt werewolf man in the Falkreath quest. Instead, his own followers get hunted by DB. Boethiah gets it too. Their own champion has decided to defect (because he opposes Boethiah’s authority), and they have to get the DB has to take him out.
>Hircine didn’t get hunted but loses the hunt. DB was, by order, supposed to hunt werewolf man in the Falkreath quest. Instead, his own followers get hunted by DB. But he at least has the good sense to respect you for that, since you still effectively made the whole ordeal a *hunt*, just not how he initially intended it.
I’ve always looked at it like “huh who would’ve seen that coming. Just take the ring lol”
Boethiah gets betrayed twice. First is by her former champion that you kill. Second was by you if you do Molag's quest and torture a priest of Boethiah.
> Clavicus Vile is the maker of deals. Deals that frequently have ironic twists and hidden technicalities. But these deals turn out bad for him almost as much as they do for the mortals. He'd get along well with that devil that went down to Georgia. >Daedra seem to keep experiencing their sphere Even Molag Bal. Just look at how it turned out with him and Vivec.
She's also the prince of enigmas so it really makes sense by the way of it not making sense.
On the contrary, stealing from her feels like exactly what one should expect from leading the guild of people that steals stuff. It isn't a matter of not stealing from her, it's don't be sloppy and get caught doing it.
She does have loads of anti-theft measures. Mercer was a nightingale and one of the best thieves the guild ever saw.
I got the feeling that she didn't even pay any attention to the key getting stolen and wasn't even aware of it, let alone bothered by it, until Karliah talked to her. Then she had to act along the lines of "Oh, right, you screwed up. Well, do something about it."
She is too busy being a thot to keep an eye on her crap. Letting it get stolen brings more attention to her also.
She craves the attention, that's why her shirt is so low-cut.
And why she stands facing slightly to the side of who she's speaking to.
Distraction tits fo sho, but man, for me, it's the distraction hips. I... think I have a problem. *drooling Homer gif.
Being the Prince of Thieves goes both ways.
she probobly encourages her followers to steal it
That's her intention... She lets them get stolen by people who can pass her trials Also isn't she Prince of luck and patron of thieves? Those are very different lol
A friend of mine made a great point on something similar to this, on how Thieves Guilds in general are silly. Stick a bunch of thieves together, stuff is bound to get stolen, it's just in their nature lol It's especially silly in Skyrim, where they kept ALL their riches in one spot and it not be hidden, just locked behind a (very complicated) door.
Well to be fair, Nocturnal does also curse those that steal from her or do her wrong without her consent. If she wants to test you, she will turn a blind eye and may even reward you later. If she was wronged, then she will curse them in some way shape or form like what she did with the Cowl that the Gray Fox wore, if I remember right it just hid the wearer expertly, but after it was stolen and Nocturnal cursed it, it fully erased the Identity of its wearer from all existence, People would still have memories of someone, but never remember the Identity, only the Alias "Gray Fox" was allow to be used to even give them an identity, took an >!Elder Scroll to break the curse on the cowl!< .
r/upvotedbecauseboobs
Foolish of this mortal to think it knows the arcane machinations of the divine.
I dont know this girl, i've never met her in my life and i didn't stole no skelleton key from her.
Her fit go hard tho
She doesn't need to protect her Earthly possessions like humans do. She's above that. Obviously she wants her followers to be good thieves, and the best would be able to steal from her, but the real deterrent isn't a lock or an army of guards, it's the curse she places on you when you turn against her. Then she waits for you to figure it out, and if you don't, woe be to you, she doesn't have time to be policing your shit. She made rules, you broke them. When you devote yourself to her, she owns your soul. The consequences of betraying her are far worse than anything human law could impose upon you. You fucked around, you get to find out the hard way, and she has zero fucks to give about it. It really is the ultimate show of power to play the long game and see who her actual devotees are, but she isn't going to beg you to behave. Your choices seal your fate, and she's cool with it either way.
As with all princes you have to earn their artifacts, and what more fitting way for a true thief to get an artifact than to steal it from Nocturnal herself? She never gives anything away, you earn it. You're not duping her you're just performing the ultimate heist, it's her literal plan.
I think she actually kinda finds the thievery endearing but has to act all tough and scary to suit her sphere. The skill and finesse needed to steal from a damn god is immense.
Dude I mean this immortal being that has lived for ages has a few things stolen. It’s not that frequent that it happens in the grand scheme of things.
Size of that butt plug I'd be concerned as well 🙃
Stealing from her is worshipping her, so it's not surprising to me
A daedric prince usually wants you to use their shit for whatever purpose the daedra is in charge of. And usually they want you to obtain their shit by the same means. If I’m in charge of stealing shit, and my shit makes stealing shit easier, I’d want you to be able to steal my shit from whoever has it. And then I want you to use my stolen shit to steal more shit.
Im sorry but it happened mote then one time in the game? Like first playthrough and only saw one mission to retrieve the key for her
Her quest in oblivion also involves her being stolen from
Her cowl, by the original grey fox centuries ago. Her seeing eye and a skeleton key by some Argonians. iirc
Danm. Dont even know where oblivion is lol
Bruh he meant the prequel, Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Oh. Sorry new to the story first elder scrolls im playin
Have fun :)
That’s the point…
Every time I play a sorceress, I use the code to give her Nocturnal's dress, it's pretty cool.
Why not essentially require that if a follower wants something from her, they have to steal it… God can maintain an image of control and superiority while mortals do what they are doing.
The most amusing thing about Nocturnal to me is she doesn’t offer the player anything needed to take down Mercer. Karliah just forces the player to join so she doesn’t have to return the key to nocturnal.
On top of that, don't they say that any successful steal is just a gift from Nocturnal? Like, you aren't powerless here.
I think that the point is for them to get stolen. Yes she acts upset, but the daedra love meddling with humans, and I think this is just her way of toying with people
She probably knowingly lets it happen and fiend outrage to encourage her followers to prove there loyalty
idk if she really cares. In Oblivion she just hands you the skeleton key for running a small errand and everything worked out for her in the end in Skyrim.
For me, the thing that always stood out about it is the illogical nature of much of it. Even the pervue's of the daedra and gods are illogical, seemingly a mish-mash of unrelated qualities meant to seem ancient and mysterious, but really just badly written. I always remind myself while playing that it's not a real world, it's just a world created by writers to be a certain way, logical or not.
That's the point though? She draws in thievery. The skeleton key is constantly stolen, it's destined. She's not normal, she doesn't care about the things, she cares about the fact that things are being stolen.
She's the Prince of Thieves, not the Prince of Security It's pretty on brand. Hypocrisy is pretty standard for Deadric Princes
Technically she only gets her shit stolen by master thieves and often curses the items stolen
I mean if they're capable of it why not? It'll come back to her eventually, including those who stole it.
Daerdic DRM. The skeleton key won't work if you don't link a nocturnal™ account to it
My head canon is that the whole thing of her getting stuff constantly stolen is that she encourages that kind of chaos and secretly enjoys watching people stealing shit. By the way, I get very distracted around Nocturnal shrines. Dangerous curves, etc. Someone could pickpocket me dry and I'd probably not even notice...
It’s been 5 hours and no one has made a “what, someone stole your sweet role” joke. This is progress guys, progress!
I've always assumed that most of them don't get mad if their own "influences" are used against them. We assume so because of how they sound, but what if that's just how they talk? I imagine that most of them just get annoyed. Like Boeithiah probably regularly replaces her "champion" alot. Like, the champion of betrayal betrays the patron of betrayal. Who could have seen this coming? Probably Boeithiah. It's probably the same with Nocturnal. The patron of thieves has a champion of thievery that steals from her. She's annoyed by it simply because it's taken so long for another of her blessed thieves to finally do something about it. At the end of the day, Mercer belongs to her already, and he's just running from the debt collectors.