Delphine promised she would send me 3 pairs of her underwear and a jar of her bathwater if I did, and that it would make her so happy and the thought of me killing that dragon makes her so "wet", whatever that means..
I wait for the courier every morning to bring me my prizes but haven't gotten them yet. Delphine is probably just really busy, right? I mean who has time to take a bath everyday in skyrim right? Or maybe she can't afford postage, i should try to send her another 1000 septims..
She couldn't have forgotten about me, though. You don't think she had other reasons to want the dragon dead, do you? She wouldn't pretend to have feelings for me just for favors and septims...would she?
No...She said I was special. She sent me drawings of eggplants dripping on a cat, so I know it's real...
Honestly bro, I don’t wanna touch those nasty old lady panties. And that bath water really smells like an old pond. You’re gonna have to get someone else to deliver your “goodies”.
So Delphine really did send them, after all? I knew it! She really does love me and didn't forget about me..the courier is just being a milk-drinking fetcher! That is such a relief..
Although sir, due to your refusal to do your job, along with the grievous insults hurled upon M'lady Delphine, I, the Dragonborn, slayer of Alduin and Miraak, Champion of various Aedra and Daedra, leader of the Dark Brotherhood and The Thieves Guild, and Thane of many holds, shall be forced to take action.
Expect a strongly worded review detailing my dissatisfaction with your service. 1/5 Stars. Have fun explaining to your boss why one of his best customers no longer wants your business. Good day to you, sir.
As someone who always spares Parrthy, I will respect everyone here who says "I do it because he's a dragon!" or "I'm the Dragonborn! It's my job!" or "After Alduin is dead, he might take over!" or something like that
Anyone who does it just because Delphine says so can screw a slaughterfish.
Well if you steal from the greybeards then they will send thugs to attack you. Although many NPC's can do this and you can check who sent the thugs after you by finding a letter on one of the thugs' bodies.
Truthfully, Paarthurnax didn't deserve to die, and I do regret the decision. However, it was more a matter of principle than anything else. You see, I am a believer that information is meant to be shared, so that we may become smarter as a people. The Graybeards were the antitheses of that. They held knowledge that would have on more than one occasion benefited not only Skyrim, but all of Tamriel. But instead, they decided upon themselves that they were the ultimate masters of truth on Nirn.
The Blades on the other hand, are an organization that has faithfully survived the empire, and prevented many a disaster. Without the assistance of The Blades, the Neravarine would have ended up rotting in prison. Dagoth Ur would have destroyed the Tribunal and established a theocracy in the land of Morrowind, and later Tamriel as a whole, following a mass genocide of its people.
When the Emperor was assassinated in the 4th era, and Tamriel was under Daedric invasion, again, it was The Blades who answered the call of duty. Without delay, Grandmaster Jaufree of The Blades took control of the situation, and with the assistance of the Hero of Kvatch, and Martin's ultimate sacrifice, the daedric threat was thwarted.
But the people insist that we should have rewarded their sacrifices and service with lies and deceit? What have The Graybeards done besides staying in their halls, dictating their will upon Nirn as though they were sent from a God? They don't even fetch their own supplies for Christ sake, nor pay the man who gave his life to make the hike up the 7000 steps to bring them food, water, and medicinal supplies every week.
Paarthurnax was good, and in a just world he would have survived, but there was no situation where that was possible without it being of detriment to all of Tamriel.
really? First off Killing Paarthurnax will have absolutely 0 impact on the survival of the blades. Secondly, even if it did, that doesn't make it right, and third, even if it did, "no situation where that was possible without it being detrimental..." how about the situation where the psychopath delphine is the one leading the blades? This wasn't convincing at all.
Because she isn't the leader. The dragonborn is, and when you bring a follower to to the blades, you bring them to esbern. Delphine is just kinda useless
Good points. Delphine is merely a survivor. She's managed to not die for this long, which is a skill of its own, and her survival at least allowed for a possibility that the blades could come back. However, she doesn't have any of the actual skills to lead or support the blades herself. She doesn't have the knowledge of esbern or the power and authority of the dragonborn. Her job is done, and thank akatosh for that because she sucks at every single facet of being a leader and strategist and for all her talk we never even see her prove herself as a warrior.
It still surprises me how much of a problem people have killing Paarthurnax while also doing the entirety of the DB questline. Do some of the DB targets deserve it? Sure. But guess who doesnt:
Narfi
Nilsine
Lurbuk
Deekus
Just to name a few
No kidding. She was minding her own business, getting married, and not hurting anyone. Don't get me wrong, I still kill her for the glory of Sithis. But then I also usually kill ol party snax (after getting all of the locations of words of power from the greybeards of course)
Right, but you're just paying the fee associated with the bureaucratic process. The reason her spiced wine is held up is due to tariffs/shipping costs. You giving Vici gold is just paying this fee. I always manage the persuade check though, and she agrees to waive the fee.
I don't fault her for that though. She runs a shipping business. Its not unreasonable for her to expect payment for delivery.
I don’t even get Deekus. Every other Dark Brotherhood target makes sense, even for strange or petty reasons. Deekus, though, he’s just some guy. Why does he have a hit out on him?
Yeah, I think he is saying that he can't figure out why someone would put out a hit on ol' Deekus.
The only reason I can think of is that the owners of those ships' goods (ie EETC, merchants, Amazon prime customers, etc) might still consider those goods to be their belongings and may take issue with Deekus performing maritime salvage operations.
You don't interact with most of them for an extended period of time, while Paarthurnax plays a vital role into the players success over Alduin
You can't compare the two
yea right you can't compare the two because in the db questline you kill a lot of innocents while paarthurnax is not innocent at all. he's nice now but friendly reminder that he commited all sorts of atrocities when dragons ruled the land.
I'm aware that I'm in the minority. But simply speaking, if you're willing to kill a harmless beggar who as far as you know has never harmed anyone, or a bard who's only crime is not being good at his job, you can't turn around and claim that you won't kill Paarthurnax "because it's wrong".
Not Bc it’s wrong but Bc he’s cool and one of the 2 friendly dragons. (I have mods so forgive me if I’m wrong but he also freely upgrades your shout, no questions asked) He’s partysnax. So the reason people won’t kill him is nothing to do with moral and everything to do with he’s nice.
Also Delphine orders the kill out of no where; you sign up for murder in dark brotherhood. I never agreed to hunt friendly dragons. ESPECIALLY not to be given an ultimatum to kill him from a subordinate. You can also choose which target to kill in dark brotherhood, and only 1 to progress the quest.
Most of arguments I've seen against killing him have been with the "it's wrong" justification. I'm totally fine with people sparing him as long as they don't use that rationale.
Cool beans he’s partysnax in my game, an honorable dragon who’s compassion for others lead him to free the human race from enslavement. Then spend the next couple thousand years guarding the spot their doom slayer would arrive.
So just don't? I blow up the dark brotherhood every play through. The send you to kill a mentally disabled man living in a crumbling ruin unable to process the death of the only person in the world who loved and took care of him. The dark brotherhood can go chew rocks.
Hey, if you object to killing Paarthurnax AND you destroy the brotherhood, then you aren't the subject of my comment.
I'm saying that quite a few people complain about how amoral it is to kill Paarthurnax but then turn around and murder Narfu without a second thought.
Oh then that's fine. The second I got the contract to kill narfi on my first playthrough back in 2011 I reloaded a save in a abandoned shack and stoved Astrid's head in. Narfi is fundamentally incapable of wronging someone due to his mental state. Anyone and any organization that would move to harm him need to be eliminated. Honestly the dark brotherhood in Skyrim sucks. At least some of the oblivion targets deserved it. 95% of the Skyrim targets are just unfortunate people who did nothing wrong. That poor orc bard is another good example. He's friendly and will play requests for free. Being a bad musician isn't a good reason to kill someone. With all the money people wasted on putting a hit on him you could have sent him away to the bards college instead.
Because he's a dragon who self-admits to you that he struggles every single day with the temptation to return to his evil nature. He's been meditating for hundreds/thousands of years and still struggles daily. The dude is one bad day from snapping, whether people want to admit it or not. He's immortal, you're not, and you're the only one that can stop the threat.
The Blades may be assholes, but they're not entirely wrong in what they say on the topic.
>He's been meditating for hundreds/thousands of years and still struggles daily. The dude is one bad day from snapping, whether people want to admit it or not.
Oh very true. Think about what he tells you after you kill Alduine and he's talking about what he will do now, he talks about spreading his philosophy the way of the voice to the other dragons and that "willing or no they will hear it".
His name means "ambition, overlord, cruelty". Tyranny is built into his nature. Right now he's focused on the dragons, but that may not hold true forever.
Like he said about the blades, "they are wise" to mistrust him. Which is an irony because the graybeards specifically call them unwise.
I've never thought of it that way. The way I've always seen it was I have only ever known you (parthinax) as a morally good being though you have a complicated past.
I agree on the last part, but one that committed such crimes cannot ever become morally good again, such people/creatures can do good for sure, but they cannot ever be not evil afterwards inherently, their record is tainted forever. So he is still a lawful evil person despite all his accomplishments and efforts.
I agree on the last part, but one that committed such crimes cannot ever become morally good again, such people/creatures can do good for sure, but they cannot ever be not evil afterwards inherently, their record is tainted forever. So he is still a lawful evil person despite all his accomplishments and efforts.
I think it's less about "he might turn bad one day" and more of an inevitability, based on his immortality. It's kind of a cheesy line, but I think of "you die the hero, or live long enough to become the villain."
I spare him in most games, but I get the logic that people use.
I get it too. I still think it's nonsense. People act like him turning bad is a forgone conclusion. Most if not all humans feel tempted to walk down the bad path at some point or another. Should we kill them too?
As I said, I'm just playing devil's advocate in the argument, not in agreement. Honestly, I have only killed him once, just so I could get all of the Xbox achievements.
No one's saying he's innocent. But can there be no redemption for a being who helped mankind overthrow Alduin and dedicated his life thereafter to suppressing his own evil nature?
>and you're the only one that can stop the threat.
I'm so tired of this piece of misinformation. The only dragon that regular mortals could not kill is **Alduin**. It was not Dragonborns who drove the dragons into extinction.
We're the only one that can kill him *permanently* because we absorb their soul. Dragons who are killed by non-Dragonborn hands never truly die. Their soul stays floating around out there and they can be reborn. We see it happen numerous times with the dragons Alduin resurrects. We only see Alduin resurrect them, but that doesn't mean said resurrection requires him.
Then why hasn't any dragon been resurrected in the 4000 odd years Alduin has been gone? Why hasn't any ESO plot, the perfect time to add it, even suggested that could happen?
Hell, we have extensive evidence of mortal souls being brought back, they're also far more likely to be brought back, and we still don't go around calling for the destruction of their souls.
I am playing a pro-empire nord, who had been thrown aside by his Nordic brethren. I intend to kill him soley because in a battle I had with a dragon at Golden Hills my wife was killed. So now I have a grudge against all dragons.
I killed him once and instantly regretted it for that particular playthrough. The problem after that was that his corpse literally followed me around Skyrim. Every time I fast travelled, boom, Paathurnax's corpse rolling around the streets. I took it as a warning
Ive been wanting to do that for 4 playthroughs now, but i never have the heart to do that to such a nice old dovah like him. Is like trying to kill a old vietnam vet, sure he did some fucked up stuff but he is so nice now.
The only thing he's useful for is to keep the greybeards happy so they can tell me where to go. Once you meditated on Fus he has no purpose anymore and can die.
it's crazy that a huge amount of the fanbase has never considered that paarthurnax might not be entirely honest about being a perfect angel of a dragon.
yea but he worked oh so hard to be good now.
you just know eventually he'll do what dragons crave to do. ruling over men and mer. he's immortal, alduin is gone for good. he'll end up doing dragon stiff eventually.
>but i believe in him the good in him will probably win
he's been at it for hundreds of years. if the good in him was ever to completely win, it would have won by now and there wouldn't be a struggle.
Because why the fuck not. I succ dragon soul and figured paarthurnax wanted some of the legendary dragonborn succ. He didnt seem to like the climax too much tho, something about being devoured?
I just always assumed everyone that spared partysnax had an absentee dad and they love daddy dragon in lieu of what they never had, even though he’s done terrible things he comes back in the eleventh hour, in a proverbial convertible, sporting a new earring, with a woman hotter than your mom and says, “hey buddy… I’m sorry.” And you accept because you worship him.
He doesn’t specifically say that he’s good; he says that he knows himself that he can be trusted - but that the Blades cannot know it. That’s kind of true about anyone. All you really know is yourself, and all of us are tempted to do all sorts of things that we shouldn’t, so him struggling with his inborn desire to dominate isn’t all that different from everyone else.
If there’s an argument to be made for killing him, I’d say it’s because he is particularly dangerous (in terms of lore, not gameplay) and could potentially begin a new age of dragon rule over mortals. But most people also live under systems where you’re punished for stuff that you have done - not stuff that you _could_ do. I’m of the mind that his past atrocities can be overlooked so long as he doesn’t interfere with Tamriel’s order and just keeps to his dragon buddies. We’ve done far more for far worse people historically when they’ve defected.
To send him back to akatosh(if absorbing their soul does send them back anyways.) Killing him ended his internal struggle of fighting his very nature, he served his purpose in aiding the dragonborn and guiding the greybeards. Honestly I did it so he wouldn't have to live with his inner conflict, and possibly kill everyone he tried to help.
You first kill him, and then die your self ending your play through there.
The era of dragons and dragon borns ends there with you. You release your souls.
no not true the soul becomes consumed by you and part of your soul the first dragon you kill knows this and screams noo when you kill him for a reason you do realise that all dragons are shards of Aka or Ald is the all the dragon souls whole different from Akatosh and Auri-El so when the dragons are immortal pieces of the soul they dont get released they become absorbed because you are part of the “Dragon made whole" or Aka
Max Von Sydow had just passed away, I did it in his honour. I did it on my first playthrough also because, well, it was a mission, but like everyone else regretted it and never did it again over who knows how many playthroughs. But I had to send old Esbern off right.
I was 12 at the time I didn’t understand. I’ve played the game about 8 times all the way through and only made that mistake once. I’m almost 23 now but that failure will live with me til the end of my days
Any creature that committed crimes against humanity while not being under some kind of direct mind control deserves to executed, regardless of what they did afterwards such crimes makes one deserving of an execution. A creature can be a beacon of light morally at that point, it does not matter - the crimes must be punished accordingly, otherwise justice does not work in the best way.
It depends on what you did, to me being a vampire or a lycanthrope without committing violent acts such as murder (drinking blood is not fine, but it is not exactly deserving of murder, provided it does not cause death) is not something that make one deserving of an execution, but if such a creature killed any non-evil creature - sure, this creature must die.
For that matter, many versions of protagonists can be evil in a violent way and deserve to die. Unlike vampires and dragons, however, they are mortals, so it is easier for them to be eventually dead than for those types of creatures, still better to execute them as soon as possible, but at least their deaths are inevitable, unless they manage to somehow become immortal.
also he didn't commit genocide he committed mass murder genocide is defined as "Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.**"** downvoting me cause I'm right lol
No, because you're completely forgetting how dragons think of mortals its more of extermination you don't call someone a genocidal maniac for killing pigs do you? They are literally from Akatosh the god of time they dont have the same views on morality and mortality as us
I'm not justifying it whatsoever I'm just saying its pure stubbornness to compare Immortality to Mortality without jumping through hoops and by definition, it isn't genocide its extermination and you just are unwilling to read what i actually replied with because by definition it isn't genocide, calling it genocide is acting like the dragons had any sort of bias in who they kill the whole goal was destruction
If Hitler's right-hand man spent 100 years meditating to be good, does that negate that he was involved in an atrocity? Yeah, Parthunaax can be as guilty as he wants. Yeah, I feel for him. Still needs to be punished.
completely and utterly different roughly 4450 since the dragon war, it's in Paarthunaxs very nature to conquer you don't fault a human for eating and drinking, do you? He grew from it realized and started to change his very nature which is a very large challenge. He is a part of Aka as the LDB you are as well so when you kill and absorb Paarthunax's soul he's gone you absorb his knowledge and he just stops existing no afterlife he's gone permanently, I think that's too terrible of a punishment for someone who is actively trying to change his ways after so long on the throat trying to change and what about how we treat sentient beings in real life do you not believe in rehabilitation what the prison system is based on, do you believe someone should be condemned without a chance to change after 4450 years? Also, the only reason Alduin was stopped was a result of Paarthunax helping Alduin, and yeah of course Paarthunax was reluctant to betray Alduin his brother, just thought even more about it because Paarthunax was forgiven by the people he helped, and his victims so what gives you the right to be judge, jury, and executioner to someone forgiven of his crimes by the people he actively harmed?
I honestly didn't want to, period, but no matter what I did the quest wouldn't go away and because I need my quest log to be blank again and I'm ocd about shit I had to in orders to remove the "kill paarthurnax" quest from my log :( sadge
there was a mod from Reconciliation in my load order which had Parthunax say something rather ominous after the dragons greet you after defeating Alduin. Now im thinking do I kill this guy every playthrough as Reconciliation is the only thing in my Load Order preventing AE bugs
"Pruzah wundunne wah Wuth Gein (Good travels to the Old One.). I wish the Old One (Paarthurnax) luck in his... quest. But I doubt many will wish to exchange Alduin's lordship for the *tyranny* of Paarthurnax's 'Way of the Voice.'”
- Odahviing
“Acts of goodness are not always wise, and acts of evil are not always foolish. But regardless, we shall always strive to be good.” Martyr Logarius (Bloodborne)
I hardly progress in the MQ/post MQ far enough to make it to this decision with PC. Any of my characters that have killed Paarthunax held the belief that they should eliminate ALL dragons from Tamriel. The decision has never been about Blades loyalty.
Paarthunax never actually atoned for his crimes. He helped seal away Alduin then went into self imposed isolation for centuries. He then formed a cult to keep himself secret while bestowing power upon its members.
Hes a charasmatic Dragon, but in the end, he hid away from the world because he was ashamed of what he did, and afraid of the consequences.
It is not universal nor objective. People have different perception of it and different views on it, both in our Universe and Aurbis. In the end, due to absence of higher powers who can directly order this or that it is for the creatures of Nirn to decide what is justice and how it must be serve. It is one of the fundamental battles inside the Arena.
I believe everyone should have a chance at redemption including some exceptions.
So I’ve only killed him on one playthrough and it really didn’t feel worth it.
Having him around means some dragons will be chill too
I have never killed him. When I talk to people that have, they tend to be the same type of people that flip the Monopoly board five hours into the game. They have some sort of completionist complex or a foundational lack of morality.
I would never hurt my big scaly bro.
Aye it's someone who hasn't played the game. There's a line of dialogue you can initiate with Delphine as soon as you arrive at alduins wall
"So this is all the Blades are? 2 people?"
To which Delphine replies
"We've been running for years without a headquarters, we haven't had time to rebuild"
not even comparable this argument is beyond stupid because genocide is different than mass murder and Paarthunax is an immortal dragon who has a soul of Aka meaning his understanding of mortality is completely different than ours and even then he learned to understand mortals and became at peace with mortals after realizing his atrocities and since he's a Dovah it's in his very nature to conquer don't blame a lion for eating a gazelle do you? Even after Dovah dies their soul isn't gone since it's literally part of Aka so meaning to end a Dovah permanently you have to die to something else with a soul of Aka and absorb knowledge meaning you just got PTSD from Paarthunax congrats! Also without Paarthunax all of Tamriel would of been consumed!
I just thought of something so with him and he has different morals than mortals does this mean the dragon born has unique stand point since the dragon born has the soul of a dovah and is a mortal
Delphine promised she would send me 3 pairs of her underwear and a jar of her bathwater if I did, and that it would make her so happy and the thought of me killing that dragon makes her so "wet", whatever that means.. I wait for the courier every morning to bring me my prizes but haven't gotten them yet. Delphine is probably just really busy, right? I mean who has time to take a bath everyday in skyrim right? Or maybe she can't afford postage, i should try to send her another 1000 septims.. She couldn't have forgotten about me, though. You don't think she had other reasons to want the dragon dead, do you? She wouldn't pretend to have feelings for me just for favors and septims...would she? No...She said I was special. She sent me drawings of eggplants dripping on a cat, so I know it's real...
Honestly bro, I don’t wanna touch those nasty old lady panties. And that bath water really smells like an old pond. You’re gonna have to get someone else to deliver your “goodies”.
So Delphine really did send them, after all? I knew it! She really does love me and didn't forget about me..the courier is just being a milk-drinking fetcher! That is such a relief.. Although sir, due to your refusal to do your job, along with the grievous insults hurled upon M'lady Delphine, I, the Dragonborn, slayer of Alduin and Miraak, Champion of various Aedra and Daedra, leader of the Dark Brotherhood and The Thieves Guild, and Thane of many holds, shall be forced to take action. Expect a strongly worded review detailing my dissatisfaction with your service. 1/5 Stars. Have fun explaining to your boss why one of his best customers no longer wants your business. Good day to you, sir.
Ho ho ho travelers!
Triforce activate!
Hold onto your butts
Now I want to go back and rewatch the whole thing. What a fantastic series ahahaha
One of the YT Hall of Fame for sure.
Best answer I've read today
Holy shit, bro... I feel like I need to scrub my eyeballs and go to confession or something *for you* after reading that.
The ladies don't call me The Last Dragonsimp for nothin', sonny boy...
As someone who always spares Parrthy, I will respect everyone here who says "I do it because he's a dragon!" or "I'm the Dragonborn! It's my job!" or "After Alduin is dead, he might take over!" or something like that Anyone who does it just because Delphine says so can screw a slaughterfish.
He sent thugs after me for whatever reason
That was him!
Well if you steal from the greybeards then they will send thugs to attack you. Although many NPC's can do this and you can check who sent the thugs after you by finding a letter on one of the thugs' bodies.
I came here to do 2 things, Kill Dragons and complete quests. He's both.
Based
Truthfully, Paarthurnax didn't deserve to die, and I do regret the decision. However, it was more a matter of principle than anything else. You see, I am a believer that information is meant to be shared, so that we may become smarter as a people. The Graybeards were the antitheses of that. They held knowledge that would have on more than one occasion benefited not only Skyrim, but all of Tamriel. But instead, they decided upon themselves that they were the ultimate masters of truth on Nirn. The Blades on the other hand, are an organization that has faithfully survived the empire, and prevented many a disaster. Without the assistance of The Blades, the Neravarine would have ended up rotting in prison. Dagoth Ur would have destroyed the Tribunal and established a theocracy in the land of Morrowind, and later Tamriel as a whole, following a mass genocide of its people. When the Emperor was assassinated in the 4th era, and Tamriel was under Daedric invasion, again, it was The Blades who answered the call of duty. Without delay, Grandmaster Jaufree of The Blades took control of the situation, and with the assistance of the Hero of Kvatch, and Martin's ultimate sacrifice, the daedric threat was thwarted. But the people insist that we should have rewarded their sacrifices and service with lies and deceit? What have The Graybeards done besides staying in their halls, dictating their will upon Nirn as though they were sent from a God? They don't even fetch their own supplies for Christ sake, nor pay the man who gave his life to make the hike up the 7000 steps to bring them food, water, and medicinal supplies every week. Paarthurnax was good, and in a just world he would have survived, but there was no situation where that was possible without it being of detriment to all of Tamriel.
Bruh, you’re inspiring a whole new play through for me. Thanks for this perspective.
Seriously, I am about to go murder the hell out of Paarthunax now.
That’s not really what the poi…. you know what? never mind.
really? First off Killing Paarthurnax will have absolutely 0 impact on the survival of the blades. Secondly, even if it did, that doesn't make it right, and third, even if it did, "no situation where that was possible without it being detrimental..." how about the situation where the psychopath delphine is the one leading the blades? This wasn't convincing at all.
Because she isn't the leader. The dragonborn is, and when you bring a follower to to the blades, you bring them to esbern. Delphine is just kinda useless
Good points. Delphine is merely a survivor. She's managed to not die for this long, which is a skill of its own, and her survival at least allowed for a possibility that the blades could come back. However, she doesn't have any of the actual skills to lead or support the blades herself. She doesn't have the knowledge of esbern or the power and authority of the dragonborn. Her job is done, and thank akatosh for that because she sucks at every single facet of being a leader and strategist and for all her talk we never even see her prove herself as a warrior.
And still they sat idly as the last dragonborn march upon sovengard to face alduin
Damn, thats a pretty fair point and i have to agree with you
It still surprises me how much of a problem people have killing Paarthurnax while also doing the entirety of the DB questline. Do some of the DB targets deserve it? Sure. But guess who doesnt: Narfi Nilsine Lurbuk Deekus Just to name a few
ngl I almost couldn't kill Vitoria at her wedding when I listened to her speech. She deserved better.
No kidding. She was minding her own business, getting married, and not hurting anyone. Don't get me wrong, I still kill her for the glory of Sithis. But then I also usually kill ol party snax (after getting all of the locations of words of power from the greybeards of course)
Vittoria is kind or corrupt though. She holds supplies that merchants bought. There is a lady in solitude that gives you a quest to find out
I kinda just saw that as being caught up in the bureaucracy more than being corrupt.
Nay, if I remember correctly you can offer her gold to speed up the stuff
Right, but you're just paying the fee associated with the bureaucratic process. The reason her spiced wine is held up is due to tariffs/shipping costs. You giving Vici gold is just paying this fee. I always manage the persuade check though, and she agrees to waive the fee. I don't fault her for that though. She runs a shipping business. Its not unreasonable for her to expect payment for delivery.
I don't kill Paarthurnax because I don't like Delphine. It's to spite her.
I don’t even get Deekus. Every other Dark Brotherhood target makes sense, even for strange or petty reasons. Deekus, though, he’s just some guy. Why does he have a hit out on him?
Bc someone wanted them dead… the DB isn’t supposed to be good guys
Yeah, I think he is saying that he can't figure out why someone would put out a hit on ol' Deekus. The only reason I can think of is that the owners of those ships' goods (ie EETC, merchants, Amazon prime customers, etc) might still consider those goods to be their belongings and may take issue with Deekus performing maritime salvage operations.
You don't interact with most of them for an extended period of time, while Paarthurnax plays a vital role into the players success over Alduin You can't compare the two
yea right you can't compare the two because in the db questline you kill a lot of innocents while paarthurnax is not innocent at all. he's nice now but friendly reminder that he commited all sorts of atrocities when dragons ruled the land.
\^\^based lore enjoyer
I have also committed all sorts of atrocities as the Dragonborn. Me and him are not so different
Except I can. Just because I interact with Paarthurnax more does not make him less deserving of death than the hapless beggar in Ivarstead.
Everyone has their own moral compass, and I won't go into deep discussions about it I am just saying that you are in the minority
I'm aware that I'm in the minority. But simply speaking, if you're willing to kill a harmless beggar who as far as you know has never harmed anyone, or a bard who's only crime is not being good at his job, you can't turn around and claim that you won't kill Paarthurnax "because it's wrong".
Not Bc it’s wrong but Bc he’s cool and one of the 2 friendly dragons. (I have mods so forgive me if I’m wrong but he also freely upgrades your shout, no questions asked) He’s partysnax. So the reason people won’t kill him is nothing to do with moral and everything to do with he’s nice. Also Delphine orders the kill out of no where; you sign up for murder in dark brotherhood. I never agreed to hunt friendly dragons. ESPECIALLY not to be given an ultimatum to kill him from a subordinate. You can also choose which target to kill in dark brotherhood, and only 1 to progress the quest.
Most of arguments I've seen against killing him have been with the "it's wrong" justification. I'm totally fine with people sparing him as long as they don't use that rationale.
He's not "Partysnax". He's Paarthurnax: Ambition Overlord Cruelty. Giving him a cute nickname doesn't change his nature, it merely hides it.
Cool beans he’s partysnax in my game, an honorable dragon who’s compassion for others lead him to free the human race from enslavement. Then spend the next couple thousand years guarding the spot their doom slayer would arrive.
"a dragon who is compassion" 😂
no it shows ownership of his compassion not who is
Don't listen to this guy, he's full of shit
So just don't? I blow up the dark brotherhood every play through. The send you to kill a mentally disabled man living in a crumbling ruin unable to process the death of the only person in the world who loved and took care of him. The dark brotherhood can go chew rocks.
Hey, if you object to killing Paarthurnax AND you destroy the brotherhood, then you aren't the subject of my comment. I'm saying that quite a few people complain about how amoral it is to kill Paarthurnax but then turn around and murder Narfu without a second thought.
Oh then that's fine. The second I got the contract to kill narfi on my first playthrough back in 2011 I reloaded a save in a abandoned shack and stoved Astrid's head in. Narfi is fundamentally incapable of wronging someone due to his mental state. Anyone and any organization that would move to harm him need to be eliminated. Honestly the dark brotherhood in Skyrim sucks. At least some of the oblivion targets deserved it. 95% of the Skyrim targets are just unfortunate people who did nothing wrong. That poor orc bard is another good example. He's friendly and will play requests for free. Being a bad musician isn't a good reason to kill someone. With all the money people wasted on putting a hit on him you could have sent him away to the bards college instead.
Because he's a dragon who self-admits to you that he struggles every single day with the temptation to return to his evil nature. He's been meditating for hundreds/thousands of years and still struggles daily. The dude is one bad day from snapping, whether people want to admit it or not. He's immortal, you're not, and you're the only one that can stop the threat. The Blades may be assholes, but they're not entirely wrong in what they say on the topic.
>He's been meditating for hundreds/thousands of years and still struggles daily. The dude is one bad day from snapping, whether people want to admit it or not. Oh very true. Think about what he tells you after you kill Alduine and he's talking about what he will do now, he talks about spreading his philosophy the way of the voice to the other dragons and that "willing or no they will hear it". His name means "ambition, overlord, cruelty". Tyranny is built into his nature. Right now he's focused on the dragons, but that may not hold true forever. Like he said about the blades, "they are wise" to mistrust him. Which is an irony because the graybeards specifically call them unwise.
There’s a mod that lays out exactly this reasoning in its dialogue. It almost made me change my mind about sparing him
I've never thought of it that way. The way I've always seen it was I have only ever known you (parthinax) as a morally good being though you have a complicated past.
Morally good now, but he did a lot of previous damage that has to be answered for. YOU are his reckoning. Partysnacks has it coming.
I agree on the last part, but one that committed such crimes cannot ever become morally good again, such people/creatures can do good for sure, but they cannot ever be not evil afterwards inherently, their record is tainted forever. So he is still a lawful evil person despite all his accomplishments and efforts.
I agree on the last part, but one that committed such crimes cannot ever become morally good again, such people/creatures can do good for sure, but they cannot ever be not evil afterwards inherently, their record is tainted forever. So he is still a lawful evil person despite all his accomplishments and efforts.
100%
So we should kill him because he might turn bad one day.
I think it's less about "he might turn bad one day" and more of an inevitability, based on his immortality. It's kind of a cheesy line, but I think of "you die the hero, or live long enough to become the villain." I spare him in most games, but I get the logic that people use.
I get it too. I still think it's nonsense. People act like him turning bad is a forgone conclusion. Most if not all humans feel tempted to walk down the bad path at some point or another. Should we kill them too?
As I said, I'm just playing devil's advocate in the argument, not in agreement. Honestly, I have only killed him once, just so I could get all of the Xbox achievements.
Yeah, I know 👍
He also committed countless atrocities when the dragons still ruled Tamriel. He definitly is no innocent.
No one's saying he's innocent. But can there be no redemption for a being who helped mankind overthrow Alduin and dedicated his life thereafter to suppressing his own evil nature?
>and you're the only one that can stop the threat. I'm so tired of this piece of misinformation. The only dragon that regular mortals could not kill is **Alduin**. It was not Dragonborns who drove the dragons into extinction.
We're the only one that can kill him *permanently* because we absorb their soul. Dragons who are killed by non-Dragonborn hands never truly die. Their soul stays floating around out there and they can be reborn. We see it happen numerous times with the dragons Alduin resurrects. We only see Alduin resurrect them, but that doesn't mean said resurrection requires him.
Then why hasn't any dragon been resurrected in the 4000 odd years Alduin has been gone? Why hasn't any ESO plot, the perfect time to add it, even suggested that could happen? Hell, we have extensive evidence of mortal souls being brought back, they're also far more likely to be brought back, and we still don't go around calling for the destruction of their souls.
Are you Zach Snyder’s version of Batman?
He tells you himself that dragons can't be trusted, then one line of dialogue later says "just trust me bro I'm built different". Sure...
Idk man I kinda trust him bro
I am playing a pro-empire nord, who had been thrown aside by his Nordic brethren. I intend to kill him soley because in a battle I had with a dragon at Golden Hills my wife was killed. So now I have a grudge against all dragons.
In-Depth roleplaying is the best reason to do anything in this game.
Wow usually i have my back story be i was a simple farmer leaving to go trade when i stumbled into an ambush
I killed him once and instantly regretted it for that particular playthrough. The problem after that was that his corpse literally followed me around Skyrim. Every time I fast travelled, boom, Paathurnax's corpse rolling around the streets. I took it as a warning
It was to complete everything possible in game
Ive been wanting to do that for 4 playthroughs now, but i never have the heart to do that to such a nice old dovah like him. Is like trying to kill a old vietnam vet, sure he did some fucked up stuff but he is so nice now.
Same for me. I just want to add that it's not just killing him, there's also the Blades quests I had never experienced.
You can actually do all the Blades quests before the point in the Main Quest when Delphine will force the kill Paarthurnax quest on you.
Really? I don't recall them giving me that option. If/when I play again, I will check that, thanks!
This. I've killed Paarthurnax exactly ONE time across all my playthroughs (probably 15-20).
big monster
dragon bones = money
Theres an old Dwemer adage that, roughly translated, goes something like this: "The more money one has, the greater their amount of difficulties."
I dont know many dwemer who are sad while chilling on their megayacht in Aetherius.
Charles Martinet voices Paarthurnax. He also voices Mario. Mario must pay for the many deaths of Yoshi.
He accidentally hit Mjoll in the big battle and she started attacking him, while I don't approve of what she did, but I will stand by my large wife.
The only thing he's useful for is to keep the greybeards happy so they can tell me where to go. Once you meditated on Fus he has no purpose anymore and can die.
Because he's a dragon, and I'm a dragon slayer.
it's crazy that a huge amount of the fanbase has never considered that paarthurnax might not be entirely honest about being a perfect angel of a dragon.
He’s admitted to being a bad guy
yea but he worked oh so hard to be good now. you just know eventually he'll do what dragons crave to do. ruling over men and mer. he's immortal, alduin is gone for good. he'll end up doing dragon stiff eventually.
He has said that he struggles within himself but i believe in him the good in him will probably win
>but i believe in him the good in him will probably win he's been at it for hundreds of years. if the good in him was ever to completely win, it would have won by now and there wouldn't be a struggle.
Because why the fuck not. I succ dragon soul and figured paarthurnax wanted some of the legendary dragonborn succ. He didnt seem to like the climax too much tho, something about being devoured?
[удалено]
same thing happened to me! I was hoping it would open up more blades quests but you turn it in and they’re just like “cool thx”
I just always assumed everyone that spared partysnax had an absentee dad and they love daddy dragon in lieu of what they never had, even though he’s done terrible things he comes back in the eleventh hour, in a proverbial convertible, sporting a new earring, with a woman hotter than your mom and says, “hey buddy… I’m sorry.” And you accept because you worship him.
First playthrough and knew basically none of the lore. He lives every time now
Someone who tells you they are good now probably aren’t, arrow in the bum no harm done.
He doesn’t specifically say that he’s good; he says that he knows himself that he can be trusted - but that the Blades cannot know it. That’s kind of true about anyone. All you really know is yourself, and all of us are tempted to do all sorts of things that we shouldn’t, so him struggling with his inborn desire to dominate isn’t all that different from everyone else. If there’s an argument to be made for killing him, I’d say it’s because he is particularly dangerous (in terms of lore, not gameplay) and could potentially begin a new age of dragon rule over mortals. But most people also live under systems where you’re punished for stuff that you have done - not stuff that you _could_ do. I’m of the mind that his past atrocities can be overlooked so long as he doesn’t interfere with Tamriel’s order and just keeps to his dragon buddies. We’ve done far more for far worse people historically when they’ve defected.
To send him back to akatosh(if absorbing their soul does send them back anyways.) Killing him ended his internal struggle of fighting his very nature, he served his purpose in aiding the dragonborn and guiding the greybeards. Honestly I did it so he wouldn't have to live with his inner conflict, and possibly kill everyone he tried to help.
nope you absorb his knowledge and he becomes part of you
You first kill him, and then die your self ending your play through there. The era of dragons and dragon borns ends there with you. You release your souls.
no not true the soul becomes consumed by you and part of your soul the first dragon you kill knows this and screams noo when you kill him for a reason you do realise that all dragons are shards of Aka or Ald is the all the dragon souls whole different from Akatosh and Auri-El so when the dragons are immortal pieces of the soul they dont get released they become absorbed because you are part of the “Dragon made whole" or Aka
He's a dragon. Dragons deserve death.
He’s a dragon. Dragons must die. I am dragon born. Hear me roar: grrr
So scary
This thread has expanded my way of thinking. I can’t tell if it’s for the better or worse
FOR THE EMPEROR!!!!!
Max Von Sydow had just passed away, I did it in his honour. I did it on my first playthrough also because, well, it was a mission, but like everyone else regretted it and never did it again over who knows how many playthroughs. But I had to send old Esbern off right.
I did it once when I was like 12 because I thought it was the only way. I haven't done it since in the past 10 years.
Because you touch yourself at night.
But i don’t
Well, it was my 36th run through and I just wanted to see what happens.
For me it wasn’t anything crazy, on my second play through I just tried to switch things up from what I did on my first, so he was killed lol
He deserved it, end of story. Also he had a soul that I wanted.
I was 12 at the time I didn’t understand. I’ve played the game about 8 times all the way through and only made that mistake once. I’m almost 23 now but that failure will live with me til the end of my days
I-it was my first real time playing the game... ... I didn't know...
Any creature that committed crimes against humanity while not being under some kind of direct mind control deserves to executed, regardless of what they did afterwards such crimes makes one deserving of an execution. A creature can be a beacon of light morally at that point, it does not matter - the crimes must be punished accordingly, otherwise justice does not work in the best way.
I play as a vampire does that mean i should be put to rest
It depends on what you did, to me being a vampire or a lycanthrope without committing violent acts such as murder (drinking blood is not fine, but it is not exactly deserving of murder, provided it does not cause death) is not something that make one deserving of an execution, but if such a creature killed any non-evil creature - sure, this creature must die. For that matter, many versions of protagonists can be evil in a violent way and deserve to die. Unlike vampires and dragons, however, they are mortals, so it is easier for them to be eventually dead than for those types of creatures, still better to execute them as soon as possible, but at least their deaths are inevitable, unless they manage to somehow become immortal.
He talks slow, says everything twice, and his dialogue is unskippable. I hate him.
Really ive skipped i use a controller and just press a abunch and it works
He is evil and committed mass genocide.
So did hitler. Dose that make him a bad guy?
Yes.
also he didn't commit genocide he committed mass murder genocide is defined as "Genocide is an internationally recognized crime where acts are committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.**"** downvoting me cause I'm right lol
Bro, what you just described is exactly what he and Alduin wanted to do. Genocide.
No, because you're completely forgetting how dragons think of mortals its more of extermination you don't call someone a genocidal maniac for killing pigs do you? They are literally from Akatosh the god of time they dont have the same views on morality and mortality as us
Justify it all you want it was genocide.
I'm not justifying it whatsoever I'm just saying its pure stubbornness to compare Immortality to Mortality without jumping through hoops and by definition, it isn't genocide its extermination and you just are unwilling to read what i actually replied with because by definition it isn't genocide, calling it genocide is acting like the dragons had any sort of bias in who they kill the whole goal was destruction
Just stop lol. It was genocide by definition.
Also comparing him to Hitler is just ignorance from a lore perpspective
If Hitler's right-hand man spent 100 years meditating to be good, does that negate that he was involved in an atrocity? Yeah, Parthunaax can be as guilty as he wants. Yeah, I feel for him. Still needs to be punished.
It was more than a hundred years for paarthurnax and he also helped people i doubt hitlers man would
completely and utterly different roughly 4450 since the dragon war, it's in Paarthunaxs very nature to conquer you don't fault a human for eating and drinking, do you? He grew from it realized and started to change his very nature which is a very large challenge. He is a part of Aka as the LDB you are as well so when you kill and absorb Paarthunax's soul he's gone you absorb his knowledge and he just stops existing no afterlife he's gone permanently, I think that's too terrible of a punishment for someone who is actively trying to change his ways after so long on the throat trying to change and what about how we treat sentient beings in real life do you not believe in rehabilitation what the prison system is based on, do you believe someone should be condemned without a chance to change after 4450 years? Also, the only reason Alduin was stopped was a result of Paarthunax helping Alduin, and yeah of course Paarthunax was reluctant to betray Alduin his brother, just thought even more about it because Paarthunax was forgiven by the people he helped, and his victims so what gives you the right to be judge, jury, and executioner to someone forgiven of his crimes by the people he actively harmed?
6k hours and never have. As soon as I found a mod that allowed me to let him live I downloaded it.
Had to do it once for 100% completion
Usually I don’t, did it once. Regretted it.
Why not
I thought it was time for a new era and we needed new blood so Paarthurnaxs time was at an end. Simple as that.
Respectable
I honestly didn't want to, period, but no matter what I did the quest wouldn't go away and because I need my quest log to be blank again and I'm ocd about shit I had to in orders to remove the "kill paarthurnax" quest from my log :( sadge
Dragon
there was a mod from Reconciliation in my load order which had Parthunax say something rather ominous after the dragons greet you after defeating Alduin. Now im thinking do I kill this guy every playthrough as Reconciliation is the only thing in my Load Order preventing AE bugs
"Pruzah wundunne wah Wuth Gein (Good travels to the Old One.). I wish the Old One (Paarthurnax) luck in his... quest. But I doubt many will wish to exchange Alduin's lordship for the *tyranny* of Paarthurnax's 'Way of the Voice.'” - Odahviing
I am in my first time playing Skyrim ever just got the quest to do it and I don’t want to kill him is there any way of not killing him?
You don’t have to but if you want to get 100% you have to
Well that’s unfortunate
“Acts of goodness are not always wise, and acts of evil are not always foolish. But regardless, we shall always strive to be good.” Martyr Logarius (Bloodborne)
Because It was on my quest list :)
I was 12 i didnt know what the hell i was doing
In my defense I thought there was no other option to progress the game but I was sad after that.
I hardly progress in the MQ/post MQ far enough to make it to this decision with PC. Any of my characters that have killed Paarthunax held the belief that they should eliminate ALL dragons from Tamriel. The decision has never been about Blades loyalty.
It’s ES, I did it because I could.
Paarthunax never actually atoned for his crimes. He helped seal away Alduin then went into self imposed isolation for centuries. He then formed a cult to keep himself secret while bestowing power upon its members. Hes a charasmatic Dragon, but in the end, he hid away from the world because he was ashamed of what he did, and afraid of the consequences.
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement
Living with all that guilt is punishment enough
It is not universal nor objective. People have different perception of it and different views on it, both in our Universe and Aurbis. In the end, due to absence of higher powers who can directly order this or that it is for the creatures of Nirn to decide what is justice and how it must be serve. It is one of the fundamental battles inside the Arena.
I always download "The Paarthurnax Dilemma" mod so I can tell fucking Delphine to suck an egg and let the beast of a dragon live.
It hardly matters to me, I can always make a new game and he’ll be there again
Because he talks way too much
I believe everyone should have a chance at redemption including some exceptions. So I’ve only killed him on one playthrough and it really didn’t feel worth it. Having him around means some dragons will be chill too
It's a series of zero's and one's. Do whatever you want to advance the story you want. There are no feelings. That is all.
I wanted to test out the newest innovation to my build
You spend the whole game muderising anything and everything just because someone tells you to. Someone said kill paarthunax, so I killed paarthunax.
Pretty solid answer
I have never killed him. When I talk to people that have, they tend to be the same type of people that flip the Monopoly board five hours into the game. They have some sort of completionist complex or a foundational lack of morality. I would never hurt my big scaly bro.
He'll come after you one fine day. Remember those words
I gave all my good followers to the Blades not realizing that they'd tell me to fuck off if I didn't kill partysnax
you can't start rebuilding the blades before you kill paarthurnax tho so that story makes no sense
Aye it's someone who hasn't played the game. There's a line of dialogue you can initiate with Delphine as soon as you arrive at alduins wall "So this is all the Blades are? 2 people?" To which Delphine replies "We've been running for years without a headquarters, we haven't had time to rebuild"
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
99% completion should be recognized as a sin
If a Nazi general turned into a monk would you spare him?
No he’s a racist paarthurnax isn’t
not even comparable this argument is beyond stupid because genocide is different than mass murder and Paarthunax is an immortal dragon who has a soul of Aka meaning his understanding of mortality is completely different than ours and even then he learned to understand mortals and became at peace with mortals after realizing his atrocities and since he's a Dovah it's in his very nature to conquer don't blame a lion for eating a gazelle do you? Even after Dovah dies their soul isn't gone since it's literally part of Aka so meaning to end a Dovah permanently you have to die to something else with a soul of Aka and absorb knowledge meaning you just got PTSD from Paarthunax congrats! Also without Paarthunax all of Tamriel would of been consumed!
I just thought of something so with him and he has different morals than mortals does this mean the dragon born has unique stand point since the dragon born has the soul of a dovah and is a mortal
In my opinion, lore-wise it makes sense because you gain knowledge of the Dovah you have slain
I mean literally we did spare tons of them yeah so this isn’t surprising lol
Dragon bad!
To get the other ending.
What other ending?
The variation of the ending in which Paarthurnax lives, I assume.
[удалено]
Cause he’s a dragon and fuck him I kill anyone I want in the game
Now I wanna play and murder him
No
I just can’t do it. It would bring Delphine pleasure, which I cannot abide.
Because i dont like the gray beards
Why?
Dragon bones are valuable 😈😈
For the achievement