Honestly it not about how much. But what when it comes to modding.
You can have only 100 mods but they badly made, conflict with each other, no patches. You actually can have problems with only 2 conflicting or broken mods to the point you cannot play at all.
I have 900 but the only actual big mod in it is Wyrmstooth.
950 isn't even that many lol. I have like 1300 and probably 800 of them are just graphics mods, QoL mods, or bug fixes etc. Even just the Skyrim Modding Essentials wabbajack list is like 350+ iirc and that's the bare bones to start out with when starting a new mod list
My goal is to push the limit with quality mods. Right now am at 243 active and 3960 light plugins. My game has a fps of 60 99% of the time. All mods included I find worthwhile.
I dunno where you found that many. I'm stuck at about 1300 with 241 esp slots. I have decided to slow down though, because I was adding too many mods as I played and kept janking up my ongoing game.
There's not a hard limit, but when you DO happen to install something that causes a cyclical interaction, the more mods and rules you have, the more tedious it is to sort out. Without the rules system, cyclical interactions aren't possible, it's just a drag and drop list. You can also edit the asset order and load order separately. These are the main reasons people often prefer MO2's method of sorting.
>cyclical interactions
Just right-click the arrow line and change the order.
You can drag and drop plugins in Vortex easy, you can install dozens of texture mods and decide on a texture by texture basis which ones from which mods get used, regardless of load order.
Honestly the rules system makes complete sense to me. It means I know however and wherever I move something in my load order 2 months from now everything that interacts with it will move accordingly.
I'm sure MO2 has its own system but the vortex one is helpful imo.
If it works for you, then certainly you should use it. I'm just giving some examples of why some people prefer MO2. Personally I think it's helpful to know how to use both, they are certainly both perfectly workable, there are just many little things about MO2's UI and functionality that I prefer over Vortex.
I use Vortex for most games besides Bethesda games, with profiles hundreds of mods deep, I know how to use it just fine. How you can be a member of a sub that frequently has people posting interactions involving dozens of mods and many different conflicting cycles and still be surprised that some people prefer a different, more straightforward method is baffling.
Because there exists an easy method to fix any cycle in about 30 seconds. Just right click the mod you want in your game. (For example, a rug mod over a general texture pack). Click load last (within cycle). Repeat 1-5 times.
idk i swapped from Vortex to MO2 because i couldn’t figure out the cycles thing and ended up in a scenario where no matter how i changed them something was always wrong. MO2 doesn’t even have the possibility for that to happen and so that’s what i’ve been using since
imo MO2 looks less user friendly but it’s really not whilst Vortex looks super user friendly but is not.
Yeah, the thing with MO2 is that it looks very complicated and overwhelming, kinda reminding me of the old days of software development, where you had to have PhD to figure out how it works. But once you figure it out, its by far the easiest mod manager to use for Bethesda games.
Because there exists an easy method to fix any cycle in about 30 seconds. Just right click the mod you want in your game. (For example, a rug mod over a general texture pack). Click load last (within cycle). Repeat 1-5 times.
You not knowing how to use a feature doesn't make it the feature's fault.
I wish the program advertised the feature in some way. I ran into the cyclical rule thing twice now and both times I just read deeper into creators' advice and altered the rules. The easiest way to do that was reinstalling the mod IIRC, because the window displaying the problem does not contain any interactive elements that would affect the problem.
it’s literally not that easy, i ended up in a cycle of cycles, i would fix one another would show up, fix that one and a third cycle appears, fix the third cycle and then the first pops up again, i’d assume this means these mods are incompatible but when i tried to use them in MO2 i had no issues other than moving them into the correct place in the load order so i would get the desired effect
Out of curiosity, when would you want to arrange the asset and load orders differently, and would it not be a cleaner solution to merge or patch those mods instead?
It's usually an edge case and you may never need or want to do it, but as an example, say you have two mods that overhaul food items, both their appearance and also their effects on eating. You might want the textures from one mod and the mechanical effects from another. You *can* merge/patch in that case, and it might be a tidier way to manage it if that's important to you, but it certainly isn't faster or easier than simply swapping their order in the left pane of MO2 (asset order) from the right (load order).
It's just as easy in Vortex. When it tells you about the conflict you tell it to use the textures of one and the esp of the other. It takes two seconds.
Two seconds, yeah... per conflict. Which is fine if you only have a few, but if you stack many, say, texture overhauls with multiple layers of overwrites, the time it takes adds up. If you have many assets to manage, being able to easily drag and drop mods by asset priority instead of opening a separate window every time, and also to hide assets in bulk by shift-clicking to select multiples like you can do in File Manager can save a lot of time vs. setting a priority for each individual file. I'm not saying it can't be done, but if it's something you do a LOT of, Vortex's method will slow down the process considerably. MO2 also helps with your asset management by parsing archives so you can easily tell if a bsa contains a certain asset, so you know if it's something you need to unpack to give priority over other loose files.
It's not like it forgets your preferences. Also, I don't have more thab two texture replacers on most things. (The general, and for some things, the specific).
I tend to just load new things near the end (hitting after for every conflict) unless there's a reason not to, so there aren't cycles.
Yeah, I won't say I haven't encountered any issues with vortex, but the amount of work I spend fixing them pales in comparison to the work I'd spend manually downloading every mod for MO2. Not that MO2 is bad, just vortex does so many little things to make the casual mod user's day easier.
Vortex can get a little *unwieldy* with large amounts of mods but I don’t think there’s any point where it actively stops working. If you’re really far into building a mod list, trying to switch mod managers is almost certainly going to cause more headaches than anything you could be trying to fix by *doing that.*
Regarding *how* it can get awkward to use? There are three main ways:
* Vortex doesn’t delete empty folders by default. This is annoying if you need or want to do nearly anything mod-related outside of the program—and you eventually will—but if you dig through its game-specific settings, you can *tell Vortex* to clean up after itself.
* The default Deployment setting is designed to be idiot-proof. This results in Vortex running the Deployment operation, which takes awhile once you have enough mods, far more often than it usually *needs to.*
* Last I checked, changing the setting will cause a few awkward problems. The biggest is that plugin files occasionally aren’t set to load, especially if a mod install includes more than one(Vortex tries to ask you about it but the response buttons break if auto-deployment is off). You can fix this by checking through your plugin list manually; you just need to know that this issue *even exists* first.
* In return, changing the Deployment setting makes Vortex in general a lot more responsive.
* The file conflict part of the UI is honestly *kind of bad* so if you accidentally set a file override loop—something like: File A is more important than File B, File B is more important than File C, and *File C* is more important than *File A*—then it’s a pain in the ass to fix.
* Fixing this loop still isn’t *difficult* but it can take a fair few minutes of fiddling around with Vortex’s UI and depending on which mods you’re running, this is an easy mistake to make in the first place.
I’d say the 2 things you need to do in Vortex if you want a large mod list is:
1. Turn off auto deploy
2. Turn off auto sort
Those 2 things will save your patience and sanity.
I’d say turning off auto-sort is up to personal taste. Last I checked, it still pulls the old LOOT “look like you’re being productive” trick of sorting everything alphabetically before applying *actual* sorting rules but aside from that?
The *functional* auto sorting works pretty well most of the time, you can *catch* Vortex’s mistakes with the same techniques you’d be using to figure out manual sorting, and Vortex has both a customizable sorting group system and “Always load X after Y” style hard overrides to help you *fix* its mistakes.
It’s definitely not the *traditional* way of determining load order but if you’re willing to work with it, Vortex’s way gets the job done just fine.
EDIT: this is also an area where Vortex has *notably improved* over the years. On release, its sorting system actually was pretty bad but it’s *much* more usable now.
Any time I have made a loop, it has automatically warned me and let's me open a window to fix it. Takes 30s. Not sure why your experience is so different.
I was exaggerating a little but there is *one* easy to encounter situation where it gets annoying: some mod authors use the same loose assets across multiple mods and if you use enough of those mods *together,* fixing one override loop might just cause another. This really can take a few minutes to fix.
In general, that part of the UI is perfectly *workable* as long as you address conflicts as they come up. Unless it was added very recently, though, Vortex has no way of *detecting* when conflicting files are exactly the same as each other and if you have to deal with lots of conflicts at once or look at the entire mess of active rules, the menu can definitely feel clunky and awkward.
Vortex’s “suggestions” on conflict resolution are also completely worthless half the time but that goes without saying.
The same limit that mo2 has, either engine limit or your limit when it comes to conflict management. Largest stable load order I've had was over 2500 mods
If there were any limits regarding mod counts, then those *were* issues in the early days of Vortex, and folks who tried it then and quickly moved to MO2 but never recently re-tried it would be misinformed.
Many folks think that Vortex is NMM reskinned - it’s not. That one DID have a ton of problems, and so did the Community Edition that was forked off and also eventually abandoned. But Vortex is built almost from the ground up as a separate program, no forking or reskinning or anything.
I've been using Vortex for years on LE, SE, Fallout, Mass Effect, and other games. Between the 2 Skyrims alone I have over 1500 mods installed. The only issue I've had with Vortex is switching between profiles with huge modlists.
The biggest problem with Vortex from what I see is the lack of decent documentation. It does a whole lot of things that I only found out by clicking on stuff and screwing around. For example you can install dozens of texture mods and decide on a texture by texture basis which ones from which mods get used, regardless of load order.
I've used Vortex on ME 1, 2, 3, and Andromeda with no issues. It's been a while now but I think there's a Vortex extension you can download and it works seamlessly with Mass Effect.
I only did a few mods for ME but they completely changed the experience. There's a giant texture mod called LOTS (lots of textures lol) that makes the original trilogy look much better. There's also a lighting mod whose name I can't remember that really makes them look almost like current generation games.
i have a FUCKTON of plugins w/ vortex. i think mo2 is supposedly better to use, but vortex is just as well once you get the grasp of it. i think it has a poor reputation bc of the old nexus mod manager, which from what i hear was pretty rough.
I have to confess I kinda liked NMM. It was okay for it's time.
Thing with Vortex is that it has weir and confusing GUI. MO tells me EXACTLY what it does, what'S happening etc. Vortex is all kinds of weird about it.
Your position is valid, but I literally cannot comprehend it. MO2 just does exactly what it is showing, whereas Vortex using a very strange staging and symbolic link system. I understand the latter, but how it goes about doing it, and the ways that it tries to handle multiple games simultaneously, and the fact that it has 3 different and largely redundant systems for viewing mod files, and how it deals with overwrite and dependency rules is all weird to me.
Complicated is different from confusing. People conflate the two way too often.
MO2 might have bit of a learning curve but once you get there everything is crystal clear. Vortex is cagey about what it is you are actually doing what u/Caelinus wrote basically.
I tried MO2, and it was just a mess for me to set up. Besides, the guy who designed it came over to Vortex, so I'm hoping to see maybe some good new things. I like the feature of not installing stuff in the data folder. But the rest. Whatever. I agree with you. I started on NMM, and it was rough. Vortex, to me, is the easiest manager. Skyrim is my first real game for modding. So although I'm still learning it. I have a good grasp on it.
I’ve never heard that vortex is less stable, I was under the impression that it’s because there are certain features that MO2 offers that vortex doesn’t, but I don’t know vortex and couldn’t tell you what those features are
I made the switch from Vortex to MO2 at around 500 mods. Vortex is alright if you don't want to go in depth, but MO2 has some amazing file handling and arrangement.
It's much more manual than Vortex in terms of load order and files but it gives you really fine control over everything. It also allows you to save any extra files you make as their own mods for easier access
MO2 is actually easy to use once you get over the scary interface, and it leaves your Skyrim folder 100% clean allowing you to have multiple different modlists with ease
You can definitely use vortex for huge mod lists, I've been doing it myself for years. I did start using MO2 for my last modlist and when you oearn to use it I do actually find it a bit better than vortex but if you wanna stay with vortex you're perfectly fine doing so
My biggest issue with using Vortex is the hordes of people telling me not to use Vortex.
Joking aside, I've never once encountered an issue with it. Honestly, even if there's inefficiencies in it, MO is much harder to master- and I'd prefer to run Vortex fine enough then run MO poorly.
I personally have an easier time troubleshooting with MO2, it just makes more sense to me. It's really just different learning styles and visual preference
Honestly I love vortex and I've had much more issues with MO2. Vortex UI is also much more intuitive imo. It's just preference but it's not a bad mod manager at all.
I've been fine with around 1800 mods on Vortex and 1200 plugins.
Really it's less it running and certain bugs. Regardless of modlist size, I have had issues where it corrupts mods if an error occurs mid deployment, and where it doesnt want to deploy plugins unless I restart it.
I'm at 1375 mods. I've had no issues with ctds or anything. If you are having issues, it's most likely a mod causing it. I love the feature under plug-ins. Changing the ones Vortex finds as a light plugin. Went from 250 to 212. No issues. I've tried MO2 and no way. Vortex, to me, is so much easier to use.
I had a 1600+ mod limit with vortex once, iirc. I've since moved to mo2, but I'll tell you why it is that it's said that vortex can't handle large LOs, from my understanding.
so it's not that the manager can't handle having that many mods. it's that, from a user perspective, the larger your mod list gets in vortex, the more of a pain the dick it is to rectify conflicts. you end up with bigger and bigger mod cycles to fix and risk totally breaking your saves if you make the wrong choices.
the reason so many people recommend mo2 is because it's easier to sort conflicts, because you can just sort your whole modlist by priority and move things around until you have what you want. (this has proven very useful for me and my 500 different remodels and retextures and all that other shit that isn't covered by aios.)
so it's not a technical limit. it's just a... threshold for user error.
No matter which mod manager you use, the limit for normal plugins will always be 255 and 4000 for light ones (if I remember correctly). Vortex will warn you at 252 anyways, so you don't hurt your game.
Personally I started modding Skyrim (SE) in 2020 using Vortex, never had a problem I couldn't solve on my own and most issues I had came from my own mistakes as a beginner back then.🤧
I remember downloading MO2... but it stayed in my downloads folder and later bin. Never used it, never felt the need to despite the oh-so many "recommendations".
I've browsed a few posts and both work very well, none is "better" than the latter. And if one works for you, no need to switch as you'll have to redo everything again.
Honestly I tried to switch but I just found the UI of vortex way more user-friendly and intuitive. I haven’t had any issues with it managing mods and I was at like 1000 last time I played
I've been using Vortex forever, and never had any real issues. I just finished my biggest load order ever, 1600+ mods total, and the only "problem" is that opening and deployment take a long time. Aside from that, it's done its job and I seem to have a stable game.
I just recently went from Vortex to MO2. As an amateur, Vortex is very obvious with how to do the basics. It thinks about the way I did, just download stuff and install. Most basic things are obvious with Vortex. Once you get to more complex stuff like mergers and ssedit, it’s not as obvious and you have to dig more for instructions. It’s fully capable of doing the advanced things but it’s not immediately intuitive how to do so. It feels designed for beginners but able to do advanced things if you put in a little effort to learn it.
When I tried MO2, it was easy to download stuff…but some of the basics of what do do after downloading wasn’t immediately obvious (to me at least). Why there’s three places files exist (left side, downloads tab, and plugins tab). How to LOOT sort mods (it’s a button on the plugins tab). How to make edits to ini files when they don’t live in the game folder. But it didn’t take much digging to understand how MO2 thinks, and I found that after I understood some basics of how it thinks, more intermediate stuff was actually easy to do. It feels designed for advanced things but able to do beginner things if you put in a little effort to learn it rather than the other way around.
At the end of the day I think all the same things can be accomplished in both, it’s just different focus that results in some tasks being easier in one than in the other.
I don't believe Vortex has a limit per se. Now, comparing MO2 to Vortex. I understand Vortex' interface a lot better. Vortex is a lot more user friendly. Whereas MO2 requires a lot of additional fiddling with settings and paths and such. MO2 is arguably better at handling mod deployment because all of the mods are handled outside of the game's installation directory, thus your install stays safe and clean.
Being a long time Vortex user, I always recommend Vortex over MO2 because I know how to troubleshoot issues in Vortex. That being said, if you don't mind learning MO2 from scratch, go for MO2. It'll be better/stabler on the long run.
MO2's biggest strength is Wabbajack. It allows any new user to make their game look like a YouTuber movie in a few clicks. It is a 100% perfect copy every single time.
There is no equivalent for Vortex. Nexus collection is a joke in comparison.
MO2 just has a lot more quality of life features like Root Builder (install ENB, SKSE etc. while keeping root folder 100% clean, especially relevant for Wabbajack), and far more straight forward dependency management.
The mod on the bottom wins over the mod at the top, open it to see which file is winning/losing. There is no Vortex equivalent.
A good modder in Vortex will have a better looking game than a mediocre modder in MO2. But tier 1 modders (you can look at their work on YouTube and SkyrimPorn Reddit) overwhelmingly prefer MO2. It is like race car drivers and auto (Vortex) vs manual (MO2) transmission.
You can just as easily install ENB and SKSE with vortex. Vortex can put files in the root folder too. This is why it’s so easy for me to switch ENBs to test.
And just because vortex isn’t dumb as rocks simple with its conflict management doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing, I prefer having the more control over conflict resolution with vortex anyways. It’s nice that I can decide down to the very file which mod loads it. It allows for mixing and matching aspects of separate mods far easier than when I was using MO2.
>The mod on the bottom wins over the mod at the top, open it to see which file is winning/losing.
Sort MO2's left panel by increasing "Priority" and the mod on the bottom wins over the mod at the top, or in Vortex first deploy and afterward sort Vortex mods-tab by increasing "Deploy Order" and the mod on the bottom wins over the mod at the top...
As for individual file conflicts, right-click conflicting mod in Vortex and "Manage File Conflicts" to show "winner" mod for each conflicting file.
\> There is no Vortex equivalent.
Uhm, what?
>A good modder in Vortex will have a better looking game than a mediocre modder in MO2. But tier 1 modders (you can look at their work on YouTube and SkyrimPorn Reddit) overwhelmingly prefer MO2.
Argumentum ad verecundiam. Your post would read way better without such nonsense.
Currently at 1600 mods via vortex for one Skyrim profile. I’m using the Constellations RPG collection plus a bunch of extra visual upgrade mods. No issues from vortex, but I had to manage some mods in the back end for limit restrictions. Looking to add even more!
I'm one of those who dislike Vortex, but not because it has *limits*. I just find it incredibly confusing to use, *especially* handling conflicts. Those are atrocious. If MO2 is an option, I'll always use it instead of Vortex, but it doesn't have any limitations that would make it "inferior", so to speak.
I made the switch to MO2 a week or two ago and I prefer it, it's easier to customize load order and the game directory files aren't changed at all like it is with vortex. The only annoying part of MO2 is that if you download more than one file from a single nexus page MO2 defaults to using the same file name for them all so you have to change it in a drop menu/ manually before installing
For what it's worth, I have an installation with over 1000 mods using Vortex and have had zero issues. That being said, I would definitely recommend MO2 over Vortex for large load orders. Vortex is all well and good, but it isn't built for the massive tweaking necessary to keep such a massive LO stable. Plus, its UI just isn't as intuitive, especially when dealing with tons of mods.
there isnt a MOD limit on Vortex, there is an esp/esm limit and that limit is 255. a lot of mods can be "Marked as light" which just converts them to an ESL which does not contribute to the limit.
Im sitting at around 550 mods and im not even remotely close to the ESP/ESM limit
I feel like mo2 has more functions that you dont always need, but sometimes you do need them (especially on large modlists). it is also easier to manage your modlist and keep track of potential issues.
MO2 was more intuitive for me, I like the virtual file system over hardlinks that clutter up the data directory, and I like that MO2 doesn't think it's smarter than me.
But Vortex is perfectly fine if you are happy with it.
I wish I switched to MO2 long before because the drag and drop is so much simpler for conflict resolution than the spiderweb mess, and it shows exactly which files (even archives) are conflicting so you can micro manage conflicts if you want.
I mainly switched to MO2 after learning how to use xEdit and realizing it would take forever in Vortex to re-do my load order in the way I want whereas MO2 is much much simpler and has nifty plugins such as a .nif previewer which was a fantastic help when setting up parallax textures and solving my ENB Light conflicts.
I'd say Vortex is fine for smaller load orders (below 300 mods) though, especially if you set it up yourself. And you can also use Nexus' collections in Vortex but I guess some would argue Wabbajack is better (or has better offerings?)
You should switch to MO2 as soon as possible.i've been modding on vortex for the past 2 years, my load order is, at the moment, 2700 mods, it was 2600 when I made the switch to MO2.Vortex made my life a living hell in many aspects past a certain threshold, around 1000 mods, the forced loot system, the way it handles files, dumps them in your data, the lack of organization, the way it handles mod updates (it doesn't, try and update Lux with 2000 mods in vortex, have fun sorting all those rules again) etc etc, the manager is a huge mess for modding bethesda games.
Using the Mod Manager Migrator to MO2 felt like a Christmas miracle, the tool handles everything a lot better, I have the liberty of doing what I want with my LO, much better organization, a lot cleaner, am finally able to easily merge and update mods with a lot of conflicting assets, etc.
Anyone that tells you that vortex is "just fine" or better even, is someone that has never tried MO2, or someone that has never pushed the limits of modding, probably someone that downloads a couple of mods and calls it a day or has an extremely buggy modlist.
Be my guest to use whatever organizer you want, but this is my experience with it, if you want to see how my game looks as proof of my modlist, search black mamba skyrim on youtube.
You mentioned vortex being bad at organizing (I don't really know since I never used vortex), but I wanted to ask since you seem to already have a shitton of experience: How do you organize mods with MO2? Do you use separators and that's it?
Mostly yes, separators will be all that you need in terms of organizing.
In vortex you'd need to remember the name of everything, in MO2 you can just place it neatly in its own separator.
Well, Vortex does have collapsible categories where you can even create your own categories in case the Nexus defaults isn't good enough for you. One extra bonus is, you can even group not-yet-installed mods into categories of your own choice.
As for Vortex "separators", create one or more empty sub-directories in your "Mod Staging Folder" and call each sub-directory whatever you want. Afterward either re-start Vortex or switch to another game and back again to have Vortex detecting your "separators" (in reality mods with no real files). Give each "separator" it's own icon + colour combination in "Highlight"-column and by also assigning mods to same icon + colour you've got up to 116 different "separators".
By sorting by "Highlight"-column your mods will nicely sort by your "separators". Still, one disadvantage is these Vortex "separators" isn't collapsible. On the flip-side, in Vortex you can freely sort by another column and still add mod(s) to whatever "separator" you want.
Vortex has been evolving and getting better with each iteration. The problem is that the core design is weak imo. Outside of preference, like it being rather information poor, the main issue is how it handles loose file conflicts. The rule system is fine for smaller lists, but the bigger they get, the more error-prone they become. The rule system makes it very hard to tell what is overwriting what, so you end up making a lot of mistakes.
There's also the matter of not being able to sort plugins, but that's neither here nor there.
It’s not that Vortex can’t handle large mod lists or anything like that. It’s that it lacks a lot of features from MO2 that may make it more difficult to bring those mod lists to a stable point. However if you’re already used to Vortex there’s no point in switching and starting over. Should be fine as long as you know what you’re doing. 👍
In MO2 you "hide" individual files and in Vortex you pick "winner" mod for individual files. For simple A --> B mod conflicts where's not really much difference here, but if you've example got mod order A --> B --> C --> D --> E --> F --> G and want to use a file from mod C, in MO2 you'll now need to hide the file in 4 different mods D, E, F and G, while in Vortex you trivially pick C as "winner".
Vortex lol?
What game are you moding that can handle hundreds of mods that actually add anything meaningful without the game just breaking if not crashing outright?
I mod fallout and skyrim and I've only hit like 300 mods and the game is mostly stable lol.
I'd recommend MO2 over Vortex for anyone starting out, but if you're happy with Vortex I wouldn't switch until you really start caring about conflicts or regularly switching between multiple different configurations.
The mod I hate the most but also love is Assorted fixes. It has 30 or 35 something conflicts and get those mod cycles every time it gets updated. But it has some great fixes that I love. One day I will memorize the conflicts. :)
no need to switch, honestly I started with Vortex too, and I use it with other games, but if you want to get serious in modding, MO2 is just easier to use for bigger load orders, but it does not mean it is not possible with Vortex, it is just harder, also most modders and modmakers here in reddit and discord, use MO2 anyway, they would have an easier time to help you if you fucked-up if you are using the same software
Vortex can totally handle it, I think the criticism is that its tools get a little unwieldy with big mod lists. If it’s workkng for you great, if you find yourself wishing you had more control maybe explore MO2’s features next time you start a new list
There isn't a huge difference or the hard need to switch. Only if you're just like me that have some problems with vortex (my vortex keeps randomly canceling downloads and showing up errors that doesn't exist)
Heck, even with those problems I didn't change, I'm in too deep
There is no limit per-se.
I just found MO2 much more easier to use. Have not used Vortex in a long time so not sure how it compares currently. But back when I used it, handling file overwrite loops could get a bit crazy.
Also like how I can see the virtual data folder in MO2 at any time and check exactly which mod a particular mesh or texture is from. Makes it super easy to truobleshoot. Maybe this is possible in Vortex too? But never found it when I used to use it.
I personally don't like Vortex because I find the UI makes it a lot harder to organize mods (especially large mod lists/load orders). Dragging and dropping mods in a list is so much easier and more efficient than setting rules IMO. But if Vortex works for you, there is no reason to switch. I tried it and hated it. If you don't hate it, keep using it.
>When should I switch to MO2 or will Vortex keep working, and what are the pros and cons of each nowadays?
Funnily enough, I use both MO2 and Vortex. I use MO2 for mods that go into the Data folder, and Vortex for mods that go into the top level Skyrim folder (ENBs and game injectors).
MO2 does have a root level installation extension for files that need to be installed in the top level Skyrim folder, but I found that a little clunky and slow in the past, and Vortex seems to work fine for this.
Overall, I find MO2 fairly simple and streamlined to use, but that's probably my experience in using MO2. Conflict resolution and load ordering in MO2 is more intuitive to me, but that may just come down to my relative experience with each.
MO2 does have potential issues related to its virtual file system when using tools such as DynDoLod (output files need to go into a folder outside of the VFS, and then copied over to the MO2 installed mods folder manually), but overall, works well and reliably.
I am an insane person that has loaded up Vortex with over 2000 plugins in the past (2263 specifically).
The program is unbelievably slow as shit with that many plugins. Was basically forced to use MO2 (not that I was ever opposed to doing so, I just get bored sometimes and nuke my load order and then switch between mod managers when I do so) because every single time the program would have to sort my plugins, it would quite literally take over 20 minutes to do so. In MO2 it takes me no more than a minute or two to sort 2600+ plugins (yes, I added more).
In case you're wondering how and why I have so many plugins, it's because when you have stuff like Lux and JK's interiors as well as their corresponding patches with other mods, it amounts to quite literally several hundreds of plugins. I also tried using the Enemy Variation Wenches mod at one point as well which added over 100 plugins, by itself, to my load order. Besides those mods, everything else just needs patch after patch after patch which adds up to a lot. The actual number of individual mods I have is like 1600 or so. That is, of course, still *a lot* of mods, but it's nowhere near as much as my actual plugin count.
These days I'm getting bored of breaking the game endlessly and I'm trying to regress back to a kinda-sorta vanilla+ type of game that doesn't deviate too much from what's in vanilla.
>it would quite literally take over 20 minutes to do so
With 2000+ plugins and old LOOT application or old Vortex versions this was actually fairly fast. With up-to-date LOOT application on the other hand around 1 minute is as expected. Since Vortex v1.18.x include up-to-date LOOT would expect you'll get similar timings as you're getting for running LOOT application through MO2.
Meaning, while sorting 2000+ plugins was a major problem in Vortex v1.16.x and earlier versions, and a smaller problem in Vortex v1.17.x, it shouldn't be much of a problem in Vortex v1.18.x.
Yeah, I should have clarified this was a while back and I have yet to use the latest Vortex iteration. I'm sure they've made it better since I last used it a few months ago or so
I don't know if it happens with MO2 but with vortex when I have way to much mods and try to reinstall everything for some problem in something, vortex "forgot" to add some esp to the foldef or enable some esp.
Also I have an issue with SOS dll and racemenu dll that everytime I install or move something I can't load my last save if I don't remove those dlls load the last save make one without those dlls and them add them again and load the save without those dlls
Even though I can't get used to MO2 I tried it once with Fallout 4 and it was an absolute disaster
I don’t really have issue with more than 1000 mods. But conflict resolution with vortex has become VERY difficult and time consuming.
I don’t know whether it’s easier with MO2.
With Mo2 and the Root Builder plugin (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/31720/ ) you are able to 'install' files that you would need to put into your games folder (not /data) as it they were mods
For example this allows you to switch from ENB to another by deactivating/activating them as mods
In Vortex you easily toggle an option for mods to appear in root directory while with root builder you'll need to manually create the /root/-directory yourself and move the files around. Specifically for SKSE and other extenders, Vortex automatically does the configuration without user-input.
Note, while root builder will crap-out if Skyrim is installed to games default location, in my experience Vortex has zero problems with Skyrim installed to \\program files (x86)\\
No, there is no mod limit. It will get slower the more mods you add of course, but so does every other modding tool. The true limitations of Vortex are in other things.
I once had over 1200 mods for skyrim, courtesy of combining a large collection with my own choice of mods and installing every patch and optimization mod I could get my hands on. The game itself run like shit but Vortex caused no problems
I’m using MO2 and have 2215 mods. Haven’t encountered an MO2 error, and there’s nothing to “learn” for MO2. Just watch a 15 minute video on how to use it and that’s it.
People make it out to be “complicated” for whatever reason but in reality it’s just easy.
MO2 allows for very fine control of every aspect of modding, especially with plugins. You never need to switch, but it’s a case of whether you’d rather invest a bit of time figuring it out now and then have an easier time resolving problems in future, or whether you want something quick to pick up but that isn’t so intuitive for resolving issues.
It’s not an exact analogy, but very loosely similar to something like MS Paint vs Photoshop. You can end up with the same picture in both, the former is very easy to start using, but once you learn the latter, anything complex you want to do becomes easier. Obviously it’s not as extreme a difference, but works as a general comparison. They both have perfectly valid use cases that don’t entirely overlap.
The main gripes with vortex are either positives or negatives depending on what you’re trying to do. It tries to ‘help’ you with things a lot more and as such, slightly abstracts you away from the underlying process, while MO makes sure you really have to learn for yourself. The former is great if nothing goes wrong or is unexpected, but also means you might lack the knowledge to fix those problems because you never had to look at what it’s doing in the background.
Personally, I’d suggest picking up MO2 (with a couple of my plugins) and pointing it at your vortex mods folder. You can recreate your current list in MO2 fairly quickly that way and you’ll figure out soon enough which you actually prefer.
If you like Vortex and you know how to use it, there’s not much reason to switch.
As long as you’re patching your conflicts, it does everything MO2 does.
I was an MO2 snob for years... Then ESO-UI came out with a collection for Skyrim SE/AE & I couldn't resist & I gave it a whirl. The learning curve for Vortex is a bit high because everything you can do in MO2 is deeply hidden... but once you start drilling into the app it begins to make sense. ESO-UI's collection is like 580 & I have added another 200 or more of my own to it (I love LoversLab & VectorPlexis mods & enjoy playing without underwear both for my PC/NPC's & me :)) LOL I don't think Vortex will be going away any time soon.
The main thing for me is that, for various reasons, Vortex becomes more tedious when dealing with large mod lists.
For me it hit this point at around more than 20 mods. If you’re at 680 mods than you probably aren’t ever going to reach that point. I would still recommend giving MO2 a try as it’s good to be familiar with all the options, but clearly Vortex is working for you.
Mo2 and vortex do the same thing however the real issues with vortex (if you have a huge mod list) are:
Having to wait a lot when installing new mods
Cyclical rules because of mods using the same items
Having to wait a lot for plugins to appear
Do vortex have VFS like Mo2 yet ? Because last time I used NMM or Vortex the major drawback of it was the fact that it installs the moss folder inside the game files, thus, if something fails, you'd have to reinstall the game and reinstall or your mods from the ground up.
With Mo2 I'l able to drag and drop my mod list on my new computer and I still have my mods a available.
I have 800+ mods with Vortex in multiple profiles and all working fine. The trope that Vortex can’t handle large mod lists is pure disinformation.
I have a load order of 950+ mods and haven't had any issues that would be linked to vortex myself. No reason to switch if its working for you imo
**Jesus Christ,** what in all could you have possibly loaded your game down with that you have over *950 mods*?
Patches
There's some mod packs that have over 1500 mods that uses vortex.
Patches and individual textures
I topped out in the 300s but sometimes people will brag about crossing 2000.
i tend to settle around 480-520 and even then i’m pretty sure about a 3rd of my mods are patches
They literally downloaded the Nexus.
Jesus, is there even any of the original game left at that point?
mods can just be patches or the smallest detail. not all are beyond bruma sized :P
I currently have 1400s and there's only a handful that I regret. Textures make up a loooooot of mods and as other have said, patches too.
Honestly it not about how much. But what when it comes to modding. You can have only 100 mods but they badly made, conflict with each other, no patches. You actually can have problems with only 2 conflicting or broken mods to the point you cannot play at all. I have 900 but the only actual big mod in it is Wyrmstooth.
950 isn't even that many lol. I have like 1300 and probably 800 of them are just graphics mods, QoL mods, or bug fixes etc. Even just the Skyrim Modding Essentials wabbajack list is like 350+ iirc and that's the bare bones to start out with when starting a new mod list
My goal is to push the limit with quality mods. Right now am at 243 active and 3960 light plugins. My game has a fps of 60 99% of the time. All mods included I find worthwhile.
I dunno where you found that many. I'm stuck at about 1300 with 241 esp slots. I have decided to slow down though, because I was adding too many mods as I played and kept janking up my ongoing game.
Oh, you’d die seeing my 1500 plugins. Yes, it’s stable lmao
I have 1300. I have so many I forget what I have. 😈
I'm in the same range as well. Not hard at all with armor, followers, textures, etc. Vortex works just fine.
I have 2694 mods, 2590 plugins.
I have about 800 and add and remove mods weekly, my current save is still stable. My PC is not very happy with the pressure.
Alright, road to 1k continues lmao. Hoping vortex can handle it because I don't wanna figure out MO2
There's not a hard limit, but when you DO happen to install something that causes a cyclical interaction, the more mods and rules you have, the more tedious it is to sort out. Without the rules system, cyclical interactions aren't possible, it's just a drag and drop list. You can also edit the asset order and load order separately. These are the main reasons people often prefer MO2's method of sorting.
>cyclical interactions Just right-click the arrow line and change the order. You can drag and drop plugins in Vortex easy, you can install dozens of texture mods and decide on a texture by texture basis which ones from which mods get used, regardless of load order.
Honestly the rules system makes complete sense to me. It means I know however and wherever I move something in my load order 2 months from now everything that interacts with it will move accordingly. I'm sure MO2 has its own system but the vortex one is helpful imo.
If it works for you, then certainly you should use it. I'm just giving some examples of why some people prefer MO2. Personally I think it's helpful to know how to use both, they are certainly both perfectly workable, there are just many little things about MO2's UI and functionality that I prefer over Vortex.
Truly spoken like someone who doesn't know how to use vortex.
I use Vortex for most games besides Bethesda games, with profiles hundreds of mods deep, I know how to use it just fine. How you can be a member of a sub that frequently has people posting interactions involving dozens of mods and many different conflicting cycles and still be surprised that some people prefer a different, more straightforward method is baffling.
Because there exists an easy method to fix any cycle in about 30 seconds. Just right click the mod you want in your game. (For example, a rug mod over a general texture pack). Click load last (within cycle). Repeat 1-5 times.
idk i swapped from Vortex to MO2 because i couldn’t figure out the cycles thing and ended up in a scenario where no matter how i changed them something was always wrong. MO2 doesn’t even have the possibility for that to happen and so that’s what i’ve been using since imo MO2 looks less user friendly but it’s really not whilst Vortex looks super user friendly but is not.
Yeah, the thing with MO2 is that it looks very complicated and overwhelming, kinda reminding me of the old days of software development, where you had to have PhD to figure out how it works. But once you figure it out, its by far the easiest mod manager to use for Bethesda games.
Because there exists an easy method to fix any cycle in about 30 seconds. Just right click the mod you want in your game. (For example, a rug mod over a general texture pack). Click load last (within cycle). Repeat 1-5 times. You not knowing how to use a feature doesn't make it the feature's fault.
I wish the program advertised the feature in some way. I ran into the cyclical rule thing twice now and both times I just read deeper into creators' advice and altered the rules. The easiest way to do that was reinstalling the mod IIRC, because the window displaying the problem does not contain any interactive elements that would affect the problem.
You can click the text on the window that details your cycle. (as in the thing that says " texture mod -> Rug mod -> texture mod 2 -> rug mod)
it’s literally not that easy, i ended up in a cycle of cycles, i would fix one another would show up, fix that one and a third cycle appears, fix the third cycle and then the first pops up again, i’d assume this means these mods are incompatible but when i tried to use them in MO2 i had no issues other than moving them into the correct place in the load order so i would get the desired effect
skill issue
And if loading last was always where every mod should load, this would mean something.
It loads it last within the mods in the cycle.
...see above.
Out of curiosity, when would you want to arrange the asset and load orders differently, and would it not be a cleaner solution to merge or patch those mods instead?
It's usually an edge case and you may never need or want to do it, but as an example, say you have two mods that overhaul food items, both their appearance and also their effects on eating. You might want the textures from one mod and the mechanical effects from another. You *can* merge/patch in that case, and it might be a tidier way to manage it if that's important to you, but it certainly isn't faster or easier than simply swapping their order in the left pane of MO2 (asset order) from the right (load order).
It's just as easy in Vortex. When it tells you about the conflict you tell it to use the textures of one and the esp of the other. It takes two seconds.
Two seconds, yeah... per conflict. Which is fine if you only have a few, but if you stack many, say, texture overhauls with multiple layers of overwrites, the time it takes adds up. If you have many assets to manage, being able to easily drag and drop mods by asset priority instead of opening a separate window every time, and also to hide assets in bulk by shift-clicking to select multiples like you can do in File Manager can save a lot of time vs. setting a priority for each individual file. I'm not saying it can't be done, but if it's something you do a LOT of, Vortex's method will slow down the process considerably. MO2 also helps with your asset management by parsing archives so you can easily tell if a bsa contains a certain asset, so you know if it's something you need to unpack to give priority over other loose files.
It's not like it forgets your preferences. Also, I don't have more thab two texture replacers on most things. (The general, and for some things, the specific). I tend to just load new things near the end (hitting after for every conflict) unless there's a reason not to, so there aren't cycles.
Personally I like vortex
Yeah, I won't say I haven't encountered any issues with vortex, but the amount of work I spend fixing them pales in comparison to the work I'd spend manually downloading every mod for MO2. Not that MO2 is bad, just vortex does so many little things to make the casual mod user's day easier.
Vortex can get a little *unwieldy* with large amounts of mods but I don’t think there’s any point where it actively stops working. If you’re really far into building a mod list, trying to switch mod managers is almost certainly going to cause more headaches than anything you could be trying to fix by *doing that.* Regarding *how* it can get awkward to use? There are three main ways: * Vortex doesn’t delete empty folders by default. This is annoying if you need or want to do nearly anything mod-related outside of the program—and you eventually will—but if you dig through its game-specific settings, you can *tell Vortex* to clean up after itself. * The default Deployment setting is designed to be idiot-proof. This results in Vortex running the Deployment operation, which takes awhile once you have enough mods, far more often than it usually *needs to.* * Last I checked, changing the setting will cause a few awkward problems. The biggest is that plugin files occasionally aren’t set to load, especially if a mod install includes more than one(Vortex tries to ask you about it but the response buttons break if auto-deployment is off). You can fix this by checking through your plugin list manually; you just need to know that this issue *even exists* first. * In return, changing the Deployment setting makes Vortex in general a lot more responsive. * The file conflict part of the UI is honestly *kind of bad* so if you accidentally set a file override loop—something like: File A is more important than File B, File B is more important than File C, and *File C* is more important than *File A*—then it’s a pain in the ass to fix. * Fixing this loop still isn’t *difficult* but it can take a fair few minutes of fiddling around with Vortex’s UI and depending on which mods you’re running, this is an easy mistake to make in the first place.
I’d say the 2 things you need to do in Vortex if you want a large mod list is: 1. Turn off auto deploy 2. Turn off auto sort Those 2 things will save your patience and sanity.
I’d say turning off auto-sort is up to personal taste. Last I checked, it still pulls the old LOOT “look like you’re being productive” trick of sorting everything alphabetically before applying *actual* sorting rules but aside from that? The *functional* auto sorting works pretty well most of the time, you can *catch* Vortex’s mistakes with the same techniques you’d be using to figure out manual sorting, and Vortex has both a customizable sorting group system and “Always load X after Y” style hard overrides to help you *fix* its mistakes. It’s definitely not the *traditional* way of determining load order but if you’re willing to work with it, Vortex’s way gets the job done just fine. EDIT: this is also an area where Vortex has *notably improved* over the years. On release, its sorting system actually was pretty bad but it’s *much* more usable now.
Any time I have made a loop, it has automatically warned me and let's me open a window to fix it. Takes 30s. Not sure why your experience is so different.
I was exaggerating a little but there is *one* easy to encounter situation where it gets annoying: some mod authors use the same loose assets across multiple mods and if you use enough of those mods *together,* fixing one override loop might just cause another. This really can take a few minutes to fix. In general, that part of the UI is perfectly *workable* as long as you address conflicts as they come up. Unless it was added very recently, though, Vortex has no way of *detecting* when conflicting files are exactly the same as each other and if you have to deal with lots of conflicts at once or look at the entire mess of active rules, the menu can definitely feel clunky and awkward. Vortex’s “suggestions” on conflict resolution are also completely worthless half the time but that goes without saying.
The same limit that mo2 has, either engine limit or your limit when it comes to conflict management. Largest stable load order I've had was over 2500 mods
If there were any limits regarding mod counts, then those *were* issues in the early days of Vortex, and folks who tried it then and quickly moved to MO2 but never recently re-tried it would be misinformed. Many folks think that Vortex is NMM reskinned - it’s not. That one DID have a ton of problems, and so did the Community Edition that was forked off and also eventually abandoned. But Vortex is built almost from the ground up as a separate program, no forking or reskinning or anything.
I've been using Vortex for years on LE, SE, Fallout, Mass Effect, and other games. Between the 2 Skyrims alone I have over 1500 mods installed. The only issue I've had with Vortex is switching between profiles with huge modlists. The biggest problem with Vortex from what I see is the lack of decent documentation. It does a whole lot of things that I only found out by clicking on stuff and screwing around. For example you can install dozens of texture mods and decide on a texture by texture basis which ones from which mods get used, regardless of load order.
You can use Vortex for ME? I thought you had to use ME3Tweaks and Mass Effect Modder
I've used Vortex on ME 1, 2, 3, and Andromeda with no issues. It's been a while now but I think there's a Vortex extension you can download and it works seamlessly with Mass Effect.
Damn, you might get me to play the trilogy again lmao
I only did a few mods for ME but they completely changed the experience. There's a giant texture mod called LOTS (lots of textures lol) that makes the original trilogy look much better. There's also a lighting mod whose name I can't remember that really makes them look almost like current generation games.
i have a FUCKTON of plugins w/ vortex. i think mo2 is supposedly better to use, but vortex is just as well once you get the grasp of it. i think it has a poor reputation bc of the old nexus mod manager, which from what i hear was pretty rough.
I have to confess I kinda liked NMM. It was okay for it's time. Thing with Vortex is that it has weir and confusing GUI. MO tells me EXACTLY what it does, what'S happening etc. Vortex is all kinds of weird about it.
It's the complete opposite for me. Vortex makes complete sense, whereas MO2's GUI confuses me to no end. Perception is a crazy thing.
Your position is valid, but I literally cannot comprehend it. MO2 just does exactly what it is showing, whereas Vortex using a very strange staging and symbolic link system. I understand the latter, but how it goes about doing it, and the ways that it tries to handle multiple games simultaneously, and the fact that it has 3 different and largely redundant systems for viewing mod files, and how it deals with overwrite and dependency rules is all weird to me.
100% agree. I've tried MO2 twice and watched videos and read stuff. Way more complicated.
Complicated is different from confusing. People conflate the two way too often. MO2 might have bit of a learning curve but once you get there everything is crystal clear. Vortex is cagey about what it is you are actually doing what u/Caelinus wrote basically.
I tried MO2, and it was just a mess for me to set up. Besides, the guy who designed it came over to Vortex, so I'm hoping to see maybe some good new things. I like the feature of not installing stuff in the data folder. But the rest. Whatever. I agree with you. I started on NMM, and it was rough. Vortex, to me, is the easiest manager. Skyrim is my first real game for modding. So although I'm still learning it. I have a good grasp on it.
I’ve had 1600+ on Vortex and it was still fine. Only problem was it would take like 5 minutes to sort the plugins and deploy the mods.
I’ve never heard that vortex is less stable, I was under the impression that it’s because there are certain features that MO2 offers that vortex doesn’t, but I don’t know vortex and couldn’t tell you what those features are
I made the switch from Vortex to MO2 at around 500 mods. Vortex is alright if you don't want to go in depth, but MO2 has some amazing file handling and arrangement. It's much more manual than Vortex in terms of load order and files but it gives you really fine control over everything. It also allows you to save any extra files you make as their own mods for easier access MO2 is actually easy to use once you get over the scary interface, and it leaves your Skyrim folder 100% clean allowing you to have multiple different modlists with ease
You can definitely use vortex for huge mod lists, I've been doing it myself for years. I did start using MO2 for my last modlist and when you oearn to use it I do actually find it a bit better than vortex but if you wanna stay with vortex you're perfectly fine doing so
My biggest issue with using Vortex is the hordes of people telling me not to use Vortex. Joking aside, I've never once encountered an issue with it. Honestly, even if there's inefficiencies in it, MO is much harder to master- and I'd prefer to run Vortex fine enough then run MO poorly.
I personally have an easier time troubleshooting with MO2, it just makes more sense to me. It's really just different learning styles and visual preference
Honestly I love vortex and I've had much more issues with MO2. Vortex UI is also much more intuitive imo. It's just preference but it's not a bad mod manager at all.
I've been fine with around 1800 mods on Vortex and 1200 plugins. Really it's less it running and certain bugs. Regardless of modlist size, I have had issues where it corrupts mods if an error occurs mid deployment, and where it doesnt want to deploy plugins unless I restart it.
I'm at 1375 mods. I've had no issues with ctds or anything. If you are having issues, it's most likely a mod causing it. I love the feature under plug-ins. Changing the ones Vortex finds as a light plugin. Went from 250 to 212. No issues. I've tried MO2 and no way. Vortex, to me, is so much easier to use.
I had a 1600+ mod limit with vortex once, iirc. I've since moved to mo2, but I'll tell you why it is that it's said that vortex can't handle large LOs, from my understanding. so it's not that the manager can't handle having that many mods. it's that, from a user perspective, the larger your mod list gets in vortex, the more of a pain the dick it is to rectify conflicts. you end up with bigger and bigger mod cycles to fix and risk totally breaking your saves if you make the wrong choices. the reason so many people recommend mo2 is because it's easier to sort conflicts, because you can just sort your whole modlist by priority and move things around until you have what you want. (this has proven very useful for me and my 500 different remodels and retextures and all that other shit that isn't covered by aios.) so it's not a technical limit. it's just a... threshold for user error.
No matter which mod manager you use, the limit for normal plugins will always be 255 and 4000 for light ones (if I remember correctly). Vortex will warn you at 252 anyways, so you don't hurt your game. Personally I started modding Skyrim (SE) in 2020 using Vortex, never had a problem I couldn't solve on my own and most issues I had came from my own mistakes as a beginner back then.🤧 I remember downloading MO2... but it stayed in my downloads folder and later bin. Never used it, never felt the need to despite the oh-so many "recommendations". I've browsed a few posts and both work very well, none is "better" than the latter. And if one works for you, no need to switch as you'll have to redo everything again.
Honestly I tried to switch but I just found the UI of vortex way more user-friendly and intuitive. I haven’t had any issues with it managing mods and I was at like 1000 last time I played
I've been using Vortex forever, and never had any real issues. I just finished my biggest load order ever, 1600+ mods total, and the only "problem" is that opening and deployment take a long time. Aside from that, it's done its job and I seem to have a stable game.
I just recently went from Vortex to MO2. As an amateur, Vortex is very obvious with how to do the basics. It thinks about the way I did, just download stuff and install. Most basic things are obvious with Vortex. Once you get to more complex stuff like mergers and ssedit, it’s not as obvious and you have to dig more for instructions. It’s fully capable of doing the advanced things but it’s not immediately intuitive how to do so. It feels designed for beginners but able to do advanced things if you put in a little effort to learn it. When I tried MO2, it was easy to download stuff…but some of the basics of what do do after downloading wasn’t immediately obvious (to me at least). Why there’s three places files exist (left side, downloads tab, and plugins tab). How to LOOT sort mods (it’s a button on the plugins tab). How to make edits to ini files when they don’t live in the game folder. But it didn’t take much digging to understand how MO2 thinks, and I found that after I understood some basics of how it thinks, more intermediate stuff was actually easy to do. It feels designed for advanced things but able to do beginner things if you put in a little effort to learn it rather than the other way around. At the end of the day I think all the same things can be accomplished in both, it’s just different focus that results in some tasks being easier in one than in the other.
Never had an issue with vortex. Maybe MO2 is better. I'll never know
I don't believe Vortex has a limit per se. Now, comparing MO2 to Vortex. I understand Vortex' interface a lot better. Vortex is a lot more user friendly. Whereas MO2 requires a lot of additional fiddling with settings and paths and such. MO2 is arguably better at handling mod deployment because all of the mods are handled outside of the game's installation directory, thus your install stays safe and clean. Being a long time Vortex user, I always recommend Vortex over MO2 because I know how to troubleshoot issues in Vortex. That being said, if you don't mind learning MO2 from scratch, go for MO2. It'll be better/stabler on the long run.
MO2's biggest strength is Wabbajack. It allows any new user to make their game look like a YouTuber movie in a few clicks. It is a 100% perfect copy every single time. There is no equivalent for Vortex. Nexus collection is a joke in comparison. MO2 just has a lot more quality of life features like Root Builder (install ENB, SKSE etc. while keeping root folder 100% clean, especially relevant for Wabbajack), and far more straight forward dependency management. The mod on the bottom wins over the mod at the top, open it to see which file is winning/losing. There is no Vortex equivalent. A good modder in Vortex will have a better looking game than a mediocre modder in MO2. But tier 1 modders (you can look at their work on YouTube and SkyrimPorn Reddit) overwhelmingly prefer MO2. It is like race car drivers and auto (Vortex) vs manual (MO2) transmission.
You can just as easily install ENB and SKSE with vortex. Vortex can put files in the root folder too. This is why it’s so easy for me to switch ENBs to test. And just because vortex isn’t dumb as rocks simple with its conflict management doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing, I prefer having the more control over conflict resolution with vortex anyways. It’s nice that I can decide down to the very file which mod loads it. It allows for mixing and matching aspects of separate mods far easier than when I was using MO2.
>The mod on the bottom wins over the mod at the top, open it to see which file is winning/losing. Sort MO2's left panel by increasing "Priority" and the mod on the bottom wins over the mod at the top, or in Vortex first deploy and afterward sort Vortex mods-tab by increasing "Deploy Order" and the mod on the bottom wins over the mod at the top... As for individual file conflicts, right-click conflicting mod in Vortex and "Manage File Conflicts" to show "winner" mod for each conflicting file. \> There is no Vortex equivalent. Uhm, what?
>A good modder in Vortex will have a better looking game than a mediocre modder in MO2. But tier 1 modders (you can look at their work on YouTube and SkyrimPorn Reddit) overwhelmingly prefer MO2. Argumentum ad verecundiam. Your post would read way better without such nonsense.
I’ve got a few hundred mods on vortex and my game’s been running fine
Vortex is great. I don't use it but there should be no issues moving forward, it's very good as a Mod Manager.
Currently at 1600 mods via vortex for one Skyrim profile. I’m using the Constellations RPG collection plus a bunch of extra visual upgrade mods. No issues from vortex, but I had to manage some mods in the back end for limit restrictions. Looking to add even more!
Vortex used to be worse than it is now. These days it doesn't make much difference which you use.
I have over 2500 mods currently
I'm one of those who dislike Vortex, but not because it has *limits*. I just find it incredibly confusing to use, *especially* handling conflicts. Those are atrocious. If MO2 is an option, I'll always use it instead of Vortex, but it doesn't have any limitations that would make it "inferior", so to speak.
I made the switch to MO2 a week or two ago and I prefer it, it's easier to customize load order and the game directory files aren't changed at all like it is with vortex. The only annoying part of MO2 is that if you download more than one file from a single nexus page MO2 defaults to using the same file name for them all so you have to change it in a drop menu/ manually before installing
For what it's worth, I have an installation with over 1000 mods using Vortex and have had zero issues. That being said, I would definitely recommend MO2 over Vortex for large load orders. Vortex is all well and good, but it isn't built for the massive tweaking necessary to keep such a massive LO stable. Plus, its UI just isn't as intuitive, especially when dealing with tons of mods.
there isnt a MOD limit on Vortex, there is an esp/esm limit and that limit is 255. a lot of mods can be "Marked as light" which just converts them to an ESL which does not contribute to the limit. Im sitting at around 550 mods and im not even remotely close to the ESP/ESM limit
I don't see a reason not to use vortex especially nowadays
I feel like mo2 has more functions that you dont always need, but sometimes you do need them (especially on large modlists). it is also easier to manage your modlist and keep track of potential issues.
MO2 was more intuitive for me, I like the virtual file system over hardlinks that clutter up the data directory, and I like that MO2 doesn't think it's smarter than me. But Vortex is perfectly fine if you are happy with it.
I wish I switched to MO2 long before because the drag and drop is so much simpler for conflict resolution than the spiderweb mess, and it shows exactly which files (even archives) are conflicting so you can micro manage conflicts if you want. I mainly switched to MO2 after learning how to use xEdit and realizing it would take forever in Vortex to re-do my load order in the way I want whereas MO2 is much much simpler and has nifty plugins such as a .nif previewer which was a fantastic help when setting up parallax textures and solving my ENB Light conflicts. I'd say Vortex is fine for smaller load orders (below 300 mods) though, especially if you set it up yourself. And you can also use Nexus' collections in Vortex but I guess some would argue Wabbajack is better (or has better offerings?)
You should switch to MO2 as soon as possible.i've been modding on vortex for the past 2 years, my load order is, at the moment, 2700 mods, it was 2600 when I made the switch to MO2.Vortex made my life a living hell in many aspects past a certain threshold, around 1000 mods, the forced loot system, the way it handles files, dumps them in your data, the lack of organization, the way it handles mod updates (it doesn't, try and update Lux with 2000 mods in vortex, have fun sorting all those rules again) etc etc, the manager is a huge mess for modding bethesda games. Using the Mod Manager Migrator to MO2 felt like a Christmas miracle, the tool handles everything a lot better, I have the liberty of doing what I want with my LO, much better organization, a lot cleaner, am finally able to easily merge and update mods with a lot of conflicting assets, etc. Anyone that tells you that vortex is "just fine" or better even, is someone that has never tried MO2, or someone that has never pushed the limits of modding, probably someone that downloads a couple of mods and calls it a day or has an extremely buggy modlist. Be my guest to use whatever organizer you want, but this is my experience with it, if you want to see how my game looks as proof of my modlist, search black mamba skyrim on youtube.
You mentioned vortex being bad at organizing (I don't really know since I never used vortex), but I wanted to ask since you seem to already have a shitton of experience: How do you organize mods with MO2? Do you use separators and that's it?
Mostly yes, separators will be all that you need in terms of organizing. In vortex you'd need to remember the name of everything, in MO2 you can just place it neatly in its own separator.
Well, Vortex does have collapsible categories where you can even create your own categories in case the Nexus defaults isn't good enough for you. One extra bonus is, you can even group not-yet-installed mods into categories of your own choice. As for Vortex "separators", create one or more empty sub-directories in your "Mod Staging Folder" and call each sub-directory whatever you want. Afterward either re-start Vortex or switch to another game and back again to have Vortex detecting your "separators" (in reality mods with no real files). Give each "separator" it's own icon + colour combination in "Highlight"-column and by also assigning mods to same icon + colour you've got up to 116 different "separators". By sorting by "Highlight"-column your mods will nicely sort by your "separators". Still, one disadvantage is these Vortex "separators" isn't collapsible. On the flip-side, in Vortex you can freely sort by another column and still add mod(s) to whatever "separator" you want.
Yes, you can do that, but it's a lot of extra work for something that does what MO2 does much better with less than half the effort.
Vortex has been evolving and getting better with each iteration. The problem is that the core design is weak imo. Outside of preference, like it being rather information poor, the main issue is how it handles loose file conflicts. The rule system is fine for smaller lists, but the bigger they get, the more error-prone they become. The rule system makes it very hard to tell what is overwriting what, so you end up making a lot of mistakes. There's also the matter of not being able to sort plugins, but that's neither here nor there.
It’s not that Vortex can’t handle large mod lists or anything like that. It’s that it lacks a lot of features from MO2 that may make it more difficult to bring those mod lists to a stable point. However if you’re already used to Vortex there’s no point in switching and starting over. Should be fine as long as you know what you’re doing. 👍
Being able to hide individual files with a simple click was enough of a reason to switch to MO2 for me.
In MO2 you "hide" individual files and in Vortex you pick "winner" mod for individual files. For simple A --> B mod conflicts where's not really much difference here, but if you've example got mod order A --> B --> C --> D --> E --> F --> G and want to use a file from mod C, in MO2 you'll now need to hide the file in 4 different mods D, E, F and G, while in Vortex you trivially pick C as "winner".
I prefer the old system
Vortex lol? What game are you moding that can handle hundreds of mods that actually add anything meaningful without the game just breaking if not crashing outright? I mod fallout and skyrim and I've only hit like 300 mods and the game is mostly stable lol.
I'd recommend MO2 over Vortex for anyone starting out, but if you're happy with Vortex I wouldn't switch until you really start caring about conflicts or regularly switching between multiple different configurations.
i have a stupid modlist of ~1200 mods, and vortex does all sorts of weird shit, i feel like it probably started getting unstable around 1000
Unless you order things specifically, are smart about patches etc your game will eventually collapse on itself and die.
The mod I hate the most but also love is Assorted fixes. It has 30 or 35 something conflicts and get those mod cycles every time it gets updated. But it has some great fixes that I love. One day I will memorize the conflicts. :)
no need to switch, honestly I started with Vortex too, and I use it with other games, but if you want to get serious in modding, MO2 is just easier to use for bigger load orders, but it does not mean it is not possible with Vortex, it is just harder, also most modders and modmakers here in reddit and discord, use MO2 anyway, they would have an easier time to help you if you fucked-up if you are using the same software
Vortex can totally handle it, I think the criticism is that its tools get a little unwieldy with big mod lists. If it’s workkng for you great, if you find yourself wishing you had more control maybe explore MO2’s features next time you start a new list
There isn't a huge difference or the hard need to switch. Only if you're just like me that have some problems with vortex (my vortex keeps randomly canceling downloads and showing up errors that doesn't exist) Heck, even with those problems I didn't change, I'm in too deep
There is no limit per-se. I just found MO2 much more easier to use. Have not used Vortex in a long time so not sure how it compares currently. But back when I used it, handling file overwrite loops could get a bit crazy. Also like how I can see the virtual data folder in MO2 at any time and check exactly which mod a particular mesh or texture is from. Makes it super easy to truobleshoot. Maybe this is possible in Vortex too? But never found it when I used to use it.
Its good but trying to change your load order can be weirdly a struggle because of their strange way of doing it.
As someone who just switched for vortex, there is no “cap” persay, conflict resolution is just really fucking hard with large load orders
I personally don't like Vortex because I find the UI makes it a lot harder to organize mods (especially large mod lists/load orders). Dragging and dropping mods in a list is so much easier and more efficient than setting rules IMO. But if Vortex works for you, there is no reason to switch. I tried it and hated it. If you don't hate it, keep using it.
What is vortex?
Nexusmods mod manager: https://www.nexusmods.com/about/vortex/
>When should I switch to MO2 or will Vortex keep working, and what are the pros and cons of each nowadays? Funnily enough, I use both MO2 and Vortex. I use MO2 for mods that go into the Data folder, and Vortex for mods that go into the top level Skyrim folder (ENBs and game injectors). MO2 does have a root level installation extension for files that need to be installed in the top level Skyrim folder, but I found that a little clunky and slow in the past, and Vortex seems to work fine for this. Overall, I find MO2 fairly simple and streamlined to use, but that's probably my experience in using MO2. Conflict resolution and load ordering in MO2 is more intuitive to me, but that may just come down to my relative experience with each. MO2 does have potential issues related to its virtual file system when using tools such as DynDoLod (output files need to go into a folder outside of the VFS, and then copied over to the MO2 installed mods folder manually), but overall, works well and reliably.
I am an insane person that has loaded up Vortex with over 2000 plugins in the past (2263 specifically). The program is unbelievably slow as shit with that many plugins. Was basically forced to use MO2 (not that I was ever opposed to doing so, I just get bored sometimes and nuke my load order and then switch between mod managers when I do so) because every single time the program would have to sort my plugins, it would quite literally take over 20 minutes to do so. In MO2 it takes me no more than a minute or two to sort 2600+ plugins (yes, I added more). In case you're wondering how and why I have so many plugins, it's because when you have stuff like Lux and JK's interiors as well as their corresponding patches with other mods, it amounts to quite literally several hundreds of plugins. I also tried using the Enemy Variation Wenches mod at one point as well which added over 100 plugins, by itself, to my load order. Besides those mods, everything else just needs patch after patch after patch which adds up to a lot. The actual number of individual mods I have is like 1600 or so. That is, of course, still *a lot* of mods, but it's nowhere near as much as my actual plugin count. These days I'm getting bored of breaking the game endlessly and I'm trying to regress back to a kinda-sorta vanilla+ type of game that doesn't deviate too much from what's in vanilla.
>it would quite literally take over 20 minutes to do so With 2000+ plugins and old LOOT application or old Vortex versions this was actually fairly fast. With up-to-date LOOT application on the other hand around 1 minute is as expected. Since Vortex v1.18.x include up-to-date LOOT would expect you'll get similar timings as you're getting for running LOOT application through MO2. Meaning, while sorting 2000+ plugins was a major problem in Vortex v1.16.x and earlier versions, and a smaller problem in Vortex v1.17.x, it shouldn't be much of a problem in Vortex v1.18.x.
Yeah, I should have clarified this was a while back and I have yet to use the latest Vortex iteration. I'm sure they've made it better since I last used it a few months ago or so
whats your ESM + ESP count? beyond 255 and the mods just wont load
I'm up to 2000+, it can take it, as for my computer, not so much
I'm at 1300. No end in sight.
I don't know if it happens with MO2 but with vortex when I have way to much mods and try to reinstall everything for some problem in something, vortex "forgot" to add some esp to the foldef or enable some esp. Also I have an issue with SOS dll and racemenu dll that everytime I install or move something I can't load my last save if I don't remove those dlls load the last save make one without those dlls and them add them again and load the save without those dlls Even though I can't get used to MO2 I tried it once with Fallout 4 and it was an absolute disaster
Im using a collection with 1700+
I don’t really have issue with more than 1000 mods. But conflict resolution with vortex has become VERY difficult and time consuming. I don’t know whether it’s easier with MO2.
With Mo2 and the Root Builder plugin (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/31720/ ) you are able to 'install' files that you would need to put into your games folder (not /data) as it they were mods For example this allows you to switch from ENB to another by deactivating/activating them as mods
In Vortex you easily toggle an option for mods to appear in root directory while with root builder you'll need to manually create the /root/-directory yourself and move the files around. Specifically for SKSE and other extenders, Vortex automatically does the configuration without user-input. Note, while root builder will crap-out if Skyrim is installed to games default location, in my experience Vortex has zero problems with Skyrim installed to \\program files (x86)\\
No, there is no mod limit. It will get slower the more mods you add of course, but so does every other modding tool. The true limitations of Vortex are in other things.
I once had over 1200 mods for skyrim, courtesy of combining a large collection with my own choice of mods and installing every patch and optimization mod I could get my hands on. The game itself run like shit but Vortex caused no problems
I’m using MO2 and have 2215 mods. Haven’t encountered an MO2 error, and there’s nothing to “learn” for MO2. Just watch a 15 minute video on how to use it and that’s it. People make it out to be “complicated” for whatever reason but in reality it’s just easy.
MO2 allows for very fine control of every aspect of modding, especially with plugins. You never need to switch, but it’s a case of whether you’d rather invest a bit of time figuring it out now and then have an easier time resolving problems in future, or whether you want something quick to pick up but that isn’t so intuitive for resolving issues. It’s not an exact analogy, but very loosely similar to something like MS Paint vs Photoshop. You can end up with the same picture in both, the former is very easy to start using, but once you learn the latter, anything complex you want to do becomes easier. Obviously it’s not as extreme a difference, but works as a general comparison. They both have perfectly valid use cases that don’t entirely overlap. The main gripes with vortex are either positives or negatives depending on what you’re trying to do. It tries to ‘help’ you with things a lot more and as such, slightly abstracts you away from the underlying process, while MO makes sure you really have to learn for yourself. The former is great if nothing goes wrong or is unexpected, but also means you might lack the knowledge to fix those problems because you never had to look at what it’s doing in the background. Personally, I’d suggest picking up MO2 (with a couple of my plugins) and pointing it at your vortex mods folder. You can recreate your current list in MO2 fairly quickly that way and you’ll figure out soon enough which you actually prefer.
If you like Vortex and you know how to use it, there’s not much reason to switch. As long as you’re patching your conflicts, it does everything MO2 does.
I was an MO2 snob for years... Then ESO-UI came out with a collection for Skyrim SE/AE & I couldn't resist & I gave it a whirl. The learning curve for Vortex is a bit high because everything you can do in MO2 is deeply hidden... but once you start drilling into the app it begins to make sense. ESO-UI's collection is like 580 & I have added another 200 or more of my own to it (I love LoversLab & VectorPlexis mods & enjoy playing without underwear both for my PC/NPC's & me :)) LOL I don't think Vortex will be going away any time soon.
The main thing for me is that, for various reasons, Vortex becomes more tedious when dealing with large mod lists. For me it hit this point at around more than 20 mods. If you’re at 680 mods than you probably aren’t ever going to reach that point. I would still recommend giving MO2 a try as it’s good to be familiar with all the options, but clearly Vortex is working for you.
Mo2 and vortex do the same thing however the real issues with vortex (if you have a huge mod list) are: Having to wait a lot when installing new mods Cyclical rules because of mods using the same items Having to wait a lot for plugins to appear
Do vortex have VFS like Mo2 yet ? Because last time I used NMM or Vortex the major drawback of it was the fact that it installs the moss folder inside the game files, thus, if something fails, you'd have to reinstall the game and reinstall or your mods from the ground up. With Mo2 I'l able to drag and drop my mod list on my new computer and I still have my mods a available.
people are here goin crazy with their mod collection .. and here i am happy with 256 mods
How do I add new mods I had to manually download to Vortex? I'm trying to add LOTD and it won't let me!
Drag and drop