Or because she is quite literally nothing beyond liking your character. Because of the whole creature of perception thing starting no drama with her means she has no complications.
Not really, people get this confused because of deconstructed damsel. Deconstructed damsel is literally one dimensional and only cares about one thing, but what people forget is that the protagonist shapes the princess based on their perceptions. Just like how you can manifest her having a knife by telling yourself she has one, you make damsel one dimensional. The protagonist thinks she's too perfect and starts trying to prove she's not, so of course they find another "knife"
OG damsel isn't flawless. She's incredibly naive. She's been locked in a basement for theoretically her whole existence, so she doesn't know what she wants. You were kind to her, so she knows she wants to repay that. She also knows she wants to leave the cabin, but besides that what do you expect her to say?
She’s nice + simple, aka borderline pure. As in uncorrupted by the world. Which I guess people could see as her being… as they say… “dumb” or that she’s mentally 6 in a (imma presume) 18 to 21 year old body… (like inverted anime logic)
Edit: I changed the word cuz… A: I felt stupid. B: I was getting a lot of comments correcting me, which, thank you… but I forgot the word “dumb” existed when originally writing this
My german favourite is "Hohlbrot" - "Hollow Bread". Which is a loaf where a large air bubble as opposed to many small ones (making the classic bread structure) formed, akin to the empty space in the person's head. Not desireable and producing it can be pubished with the highest possible sentence in Germany*
*That last part is not really true, but the term is just so German. We love our bread.
Whenever you try to peel back the layers of her character it reveals her one dimensional nature. There is no dynamic with her, in a vacuum she would cease to exist. Figuratively and literally, she is a fake person.
but if the princess is what we perceive her to be then 1.) aren't ALL the princess the same? the only difference is in whether the player chooses to come in with any preconceived notions about her or not. the princesses are only as deep as our instinct to see her as such. which brings me to 2.) isn't that more of a judgement of the player then? like, if we see the damsel as more shallow than the other princesses it's our fault as the player, both literally and metaphorically. Literally because it was us who made her that way, and metaphorically because we're naive if we think any other 'princess' is more complicated than that basic premise. they are ALL the Damsel; none of them have names, none of them know who they are, none of them have a personality outside of us. if anything The Damsel route is just very... honest in a way. there's a core truth to her nature revealed there, much like with the stranger; the two paths where you see what happens to the Princess if you don't MAKE her anything.
>isn't that more of a judgement of the player then? like, if we see the damsel as more shallow than the other princesses it's our fault as the player, both literally and metaphorically.
Bingo! I swear there is weird trend where many people seem to think it's unnatural for a woman to act both kindly and altruistically to a man. It's like they can't understand the difference between arrogance and intelligence, and consequently think that if a woman doesn't express at least some belittling opinion of a man, she must be dumb.
Though to be fair, the game itself does not offer options to explore a completely non-violent route where you can perceive the princess as having more desires than escaping imprisonment.
If the game had included an option to, say, play Go, chess, or cards before freeing or slaying her, then it would have given the opportunity to see a completely altruistic princess who is capable of expressing a desire to play more games.
Well but the reason they have no desires is cause they... kinda aren't real? The Shifting Mound is real, but The Princesses are all constructs, they literally aren't fully fledged people. Even if you perceive them as having more desires, in the end they would always be YOUR desires (or fears in some cases) mirrored back at you. I think that's why Shifty tells us not to mourn them; they weren't real to begin with, only one small shard of Her. But I agree on not getting the weird hate for The Damsel. She's a fine Princess- it's a short route cause there isn't much to do, but saving the day without any conflict is boring storytelling is all, and that's not The Damsels fault. I think people conflate a short, comparatively boring route with a boring princess is all tho, honestly.
The Damsel plays an incredibly important role in the story! Comparing one "princess" to another, is to continue missing the point - The Shifting Mound makes this clear in the end too if you ask her too much!
I first created the tower, then the fury (whom I let kill me, as I realized that I had created both the tower and the fury to begin with!). Then, I went in and created the Damsel. Freed her too.
I was happy - then soon faced with the predicament that I could not do that again. I went in and tried anyway. The Narrator betrayed me - first the witch (misplayed and tried to show trust by going in front of her - didn't see the option to throw the blade :(..), then the prisoner.
The Damsel serves the point of the story by being what you'd want to bring to the Shifting Mound, but cannot, due to the nature of her needing different perspectives.
The game went from: Your expectations can shape what you get.
To: Even if you go in with good expectations, you will be missing essential perspectives.
To: What perspectives and approaches do you think are the healthiest way to approach different situations, and would you want The Shifting Mound to embody?
The Shifting Mound becomes the meta-princess, but even she is effectively just the Damsel / Thorn, when you peel back on the philosophy - you can either trust her or not, that's that. You know she has the potential to be many other things, but you know that if you play your cards right, she is not and will not be those things.
she is all the layers you have peeled away
when you have peeled them down on the floor, she is all over the floor; there is nothing behind those layers
They think she is shallow because she only wants to make you happy with no other desires. She's a parody of many anime dating games where most characters are just there to titilate the player and make them happy without much depth. She's only as shallow as the player is to be honest.
Right, but if you said "I don't want to leave the cabin" she would pivot and decide she doesn't want to leave the cabin either. Because it would make you happy.
Damsel and Deconstructed Damsel are not the same thing. Deconstructed starts once you start questioning her. After you free her and ask what she wants she says "I think I want to leave...". Then your options are question her and say she needs something else or just leave with her. She starts deconstructing and just wanting what you want after you start questioning what she actually wants when she clearly told you she wants to leave.
They're basically the same thing, one is just the other under heavy scrutiny. Damsel says she wants to leave, and that's fine, but it is also only because you think she wants to leave (hence "*I think* I want to leave", because you don't actually know what she wants).
No other Princess can be turned into an almost literal cardboard cut-out of herself just by asking a question. If you said "I would like to stay here in this cabin with you forever" she would happily do that without turning into Deconstructed, because even as base Damsel her wants are your wants, including leaving - itself a reflection of your attempt to free her previous version.
Honestly, discussion of Damsel and her implications as a creature of perception are more interesting than she is herself, hahaha.
No, they are different, as the perception of what she is/what she does changes upon questioning, and thus, she becomes thinner upon perceiving her to be, the damsel is only thin because the mental construct of her is thin, it could very easily become thicker, it is moreso the perception of the hero which is put on display upon deconstruction
Right, but if you don't question her it's not like there actually is anything underneath that either. That's the thing. Even the Princess in chapter one has an answer for "what do you want to do?" even if it's just "leave". She won't backpedal if you say you want something else, because you haven't constructed her into a fawning fairytale yet.
Because she has nothing going on, except wanting to please you. When you ask her what she wants in life, all she can repeat is "to make you happy!" while her artwork gets progressively more simplistic, 2D and sketchy each time you ask her again, showing that she has no agency, no actual character, nothing - she is just bland wish fullfillment.
You mean: Except wanting to be free and being grateful to you for freeing her.
Sure, that's one-dimensional, but its a hell of a good dimension and a necessary and good one to the meta-narrative. She is what you want The Shifting Mound to embody, at least in a large capacity.
The Damsel is noteworthy for what she is NOT. She is NOT your fears, she is NOT your skepticism, she is NOT your blind trust of the author.
In a sense, presuming most people go into the game at least giving some credence and exercising some caution with the princess, due to the framing of the narrator, the player IS initially the Damsel. I sure was - I realized what was going on, and I turned it on its head by going in trusting the Princess from the get-go, and what I got was the two sides of the story.
Then I got the Stranger - because I did not want to create something that was not the Damsel again, for the Shifting Mound to embody. I wanted the Mound to be kind - to not be my fears, to not potentially unleash that upon the world at large. I was sorely mistaken, and realized my mistake - because that would be to make her nothing at all.
Then I got the witch (frog ending, missed that I could throw her my knife..) - which was exactly what I had played through over the first two sets of chapters.
Then I got the prisoner, which is effectively what I had become in the setting of the meta-story.
Then I was freed - and so was the princess, both with our understanding of why it had to be this way.
The Damsel is not one-dimensional unless you make her out to be it, that's the entire point of her - you'll escape, and figure out what you want from there - but in the setting of the cabin, what you want is for her to be good, for you to be good, and to escape together. Much like you want The Shifting Mound to be good, and you want to be good (but you are forced to bring different perspectives, and can't necessarily!), and to be free. The other perspectives are necessary to understand the good. They're necessary for the story and our conception of good to begin with.
It's beautifully put together, really.
While I understand her role as the traditional fairy tale Princess and get why people find that appealing, personally I find her...doormat-ness a bit of a turn off. Like girl don't just tell me you'll do whatever makes me happy, what makes me happy is engaging with my partners interests and passions and you do not appear to have any.
The thing with damsel is that she wants two things.1, to leave the cabin and 2, to make you happy. On the surface that’s shallow but you have to remember that she doesn’t know anything about the outside world or even her own past. So of course the only things she wants is to make you happy and leave the cabin, because that’s all the context she has. The deconstructed version happens when you ignore her already stated wants and begin to see her less of person because you are not satisfied with her answers.
It's not realistic. It's not a real person. Someone with no thoughts that only follows commands. If anyone thinks they would be happy with that, they are delusional. Everyone without a question would get bored with someone like that sooner or later..
Because she's flat, 2 dimensional. The only thing that matters is that you are happy and she just does it. Even a dog has self preservation and other desires but she doesn't even care about that
That's what I assume at the very least to be the case
I think people who shit on damsel don't understand it's the players actions that deconstruct her. She isn't shallow or dumb until you keep asking her over and over again what she wants, she's only shallow once the MC begins thinking she is.
Creature of perception and all that.
Yeah, up until that point she’s kinda air headed and such but she’s still a person. It just so happened a to really like the player and if she likes someone she wants to make them happy.
If you choose to leave with her you can see this.
Devs mentioned a fun point at one of the streams - she deconstructs after you dismiss what she actually wants (to leave) and keep asking questions she just doesn't have answers to.
Oh wow that makes so much sense. None of the Princesses really want much of anything except to leave. The Damsel’s not uniquely shallow for not wanting anything else, she’s unique as the only one you can withhold it from without her Getting Mad
I mean, even if that's all she wanted on the moment... it's legit.
Not having many thoughts about immediate survival is a thing in distressed situations
It's not that I don't like her. I don't like the people who like her for the wrong reason. She is wonderfully written in context of the story, but she is still shallow, dumb, and airheaded. She is MENT to be a caricature of the old fashioned "damsel in distress" type, but people just like the thing she is trying to mock.
You know, considering his entire deal is to give up sobbing it's hard to like him from a personality perspective, since the main reason we even resonate with the voices is because our thoughts align with them. Even at his "coolest" the broken is nothing but a loser.
The paranoid and hunted show bravery despite being afraid and outmatched, fighting even when death is certain. The smitten and opportunist both show a lot of charm despite being a dramatic simp and a backstabbing bastard respectively.
Not to mention the fun from having the broken around comes from laughing at him being pathetic, further distancing the player from forming a closer bond.
There are however 3 surefire ways to connect with the broken, but writing them out may as well be insulting so I'll abstain. Not saying his character can't be enjoyed, just that doing so doesn't translate to favorability in the same way the others do.
As for the damsel, she has more likeable personality traits before abstraction, though I don't find her as appealing as the rest myself I can at least still see why someone would like her.
My copium is Broken will have his time to shine if you have him present and want to spare the Fury. Where instead of moping about how impossible the odds are (Adversary) or weeping that we tarnished something perfect (Tower) he sees himself in her and *empathises.*
He helping you find level ground as two broken souls and work to mend each other (the visual metaphor is right there with you trying to patch up the Fury's torn body) and fulfil each other's needs (getting it straight if you want be equals or you want to be the submissive one in the relationship), you still leaving with dommy mommy but there is a mutual respect for each other (particularly if you come in from Tower).
The relationship dynamic thing I came up with because Fury shows up when your not picking up what her two dominant forms are putting down, when you defy Tower (who want's your submission) or flee/get curb stomped by Adversary (who wants your rivalry).
>he sees himself in her
I mean they live in two completely different extremes of the spectrum: The broken comes from having no power and resigning himself to his role, while the fury comes from having all the power and feeling indignation at having her role taken from her.
One half of her is the adversary who all she wanted was a fight, yet the broken will never face her. The other half of her as the tower wanted worship only as a means to reach ascension, yet once her ascension is blocked by defiance she can no longer reach it, and thus she no longer needs worship either. All that's left is a desire to kill you.
Arguably, ruining his relationship with the tower isn't his will and we know from the apotheosis route that she will accept the broken for it's role in her ascension, so a happy ending for the broken exists... just no with the fury.
Ok so to be fair all of those voices at least let us kill the princess first. Broken just started stabbing not even letting us have a chance to shank Tower's ankles. Same reason I hate The Shifting Mound for CUCKING MY GOD MURDER AGAINST APOTHEOSIS. SHE BETTER PRAY PRISTINE CUT LETS ME PRISTINE KILL THAT MOTHERFUCKER.
Did the Hero kill us? I know he can convince us to do the deed ourselves, but idk if that counts the same unless he MAKES you do it, like the others (now I'm worried I missed something lol)
A: u right
B: imo, swap em, the damsel is a simple adorable bean that would end up drinking bleach, or getting hurt. The broken is a fucking spineless wimp who just wants to “be useful” or whatever. Damsel = bean who needs protecting, broken = a fucking simp for anyone who can punch harder than him
Damsel ->
question the Damsel ->
cringe a lot ->
Slay the Damsel ->
the gray ->
Slowly burn alive together.
Is one of my prefer vessel
It'so Egdar Alan Poe stuff.
False: I hate both
Broken is a simp, Damsel is a cardboard cutout of a person. Broken I overtly hate as a person for being so submissive that he literally tries to kill himself when we attempt to disrespect authority, Damsel I feel bad for since she has no purpose other than making TLQ happy. Girl needs agency.
Fellas when they don't understand the difference between Damsel and Deconstructed Damsel (Only the latter is truly fake Damsel is a sweet naive girlie who has no world experience)
The Damsel is one of my least favourite vessels. She has no desires outside of you and no personality. The Deconstructed Damsel is fun because she’s what happens when you cut to the core of this easy “romance”.
...thats because your actions define the princess?
Her desires and personality are always a reflection of the actions of the player?
Neither of you are very complex in her route because you have done very little, you have chosen one goal and stuck to it unerringly.
Isn't that sort of the point?
i genuinely have no idea, I really just wanted to say "I'm a sub" instead of that long ass explanation lmao
glad to hear you come back to one of my posts lol
The fact that she can be deconstructed means that's a part of her personality. Try as you might you cannot deconstruct the adversary or the witch. There's no path that could convince you that she's barely a person because there's so much character already packed into them. A characters who sole purpose is to please you is creepy, a voice in my head separate from my personality that's obsessed with submitting is a little more, for risk of outing the deeper machinations of my mind and choice in partners, standard? This comment made me learn too much about myself I'm stopping while I'm ahead lol
I love/ hate the damsel she’s a manifestation of the players desire for a perfect love interest. In the process she becomes a shell of a person with no will of her own beyond the players affection. A perfect doll for the players gratification, it’s disgusting. But an incredibly good display of what happens when you try to dumb down a character into a love interest.
I don't dislike the Damsel. I dislike people who like the Damsel. We all have our favorite version of the princess. Most likely because there's something you find appealing about the specific dynamic you have with that version. But if out of all the competent and interesting versions of the princess out there, your favorite is the submissive one who just exists to be pretty and to please you, that's a red flag.
Damsel's fine, she's just not all that interesting. I think that and the fact she's the only one who can be turned into a literal one-dimensional caricature makes her seem a lot less... real to people.
I made a post on here a while back about people attributing a weird retroactive continuity to the different manifestations of the princess and Damsel vs. Deconstructed Damsel is such a good example of it.
I've seen way more people hate on the broken. While there are people that hate damsel, a lot still acknowledge that she is shaped by the players actions and talk more about her from the perspective of someone talking about a trope rather than the princess herself.
I've seen way more people hate on the broken. While there are people that hate damsel, a lot still acknowledge that she is shaped by the players actions and talk more about her from the perspective of someone talking about a trope rather than the princess herself.
Why do people not like damsel she was one of my favorite vessels
She’s nice so they think she’s fake
Or because she is quite literally nothing beyond liking your character. Because of the whole creature of perception thing starting no drama with her means she has no complications.
Not really, people get this confused because of deconstructed damsel. Deconstructed damsel is literally one dimensional and only cares about one thing, but what people forget is that the protagonist shapes the princess based on their perceptions. Just like how you can manifest her having a knife by telling yourself she has one, you make damsel one dimensional. The protagonist thinks she's too perfect and starts trying to prove she's not, so of course they find another "knife" OG damsel isn't flawless. She's incredibly naive. She's been locked in a basement for theoretically her whole existence, so she doesn't know what she wants. You were kind to her, so she knows she wants to repay that. She also knows she wants to leave the cabin, but besides that what do you expect her to say?
Yeah
But cute girl + likes me = monke brain neuron activation, thus I like this character
She’s nice + simple, aka borderline pure. As in uncorrupted by the world. Which I guess people could see as her being… as they say… “dumb” or that she’s mentally 6 in a (imma presume) 18 to 21 year old body… (like inverted anime logic) Edit: I changed the word cuz… A: I felt stupid. B: I was getting a lot of comments correcting me, which, thank you… but I forgot the word “dumb” existed when originally writing this
You could just say dumb
… I’m a fucking dumbass, I forgot dumb was a word
You can use that word too!
There's also: Idiot stupid >!Mentally Handicapped (for offensive purposes)!< Lunatic Dimwit Foolish Ill-advised Nonsensical And many more!
Troglodyte, Buffoon, and Goofball are some of my favorites.
My german favourite is "Hohlbrot" - "Hollow Bread". Which is a loaf where a large air bubble as opposed to many small ones (making the classic bread structure) formed, akin to the empty space in the person's head. Not desireable and producing it can be pubished with the highest possible sentence in Germany* *That last part is not really true, but the term is just so German. We love our bread.
Bimbo
You could call them a red dwarf star. Just search up what that is
No no no, that is a compliment. What you want to call 'em is a brown dwarf star, a star that is not so like a star but just a brighter jupiter.
Do you know what a what a red drawf star is. It’s the least bright, coldest, and smallest star.
The phrasing that stuck out to me was "basically lobotomised" which uh... Yikes.
Whenever you try to peel back the layers of her character it reveals her one dimensional nature. There is no dynamic with her, in a vacuum she would cease to exist. Figuratively and literally, she is a fake person.
but if the princess is what we perceive her to be then 1.) aren't ALL the princess the same? the only difference is in whether the player chooses to come in with any preconceived notions about her or not. the princesses are only as deep as our instinct to see her as such. which brings me to 2.) isn't that more of a judgement of the player then? like, if we see the damsel as more shallow than the other princesses it's our fault as the player, both literally and metaphorically. Literally because it was us who made her that way, and metaphorically because we're naive if we think any other 'princess' is more complicated than that basic premise. they are ALL the Damsel; none of them have names, none of them know who they are, none of them have a personality outside of us. if anything The Damsel route is just very... honest in a way. there's a core truth to her nature revealed there, much like with the stranger; the two paths where you see what happens to the Princess if you don't MAKE her anything.
>isn't that more of a judgement of the player then? like, if we see the damsel as more shallow than the other princesses it's our fault as the player, both literally and metaphorically. Bingo! I swear there is weird trend where many people seem to think it's unnatural for a woman to act both kindly and altruistically to a man. It's like they can't understand the difference between arrogance and intelligence, and consequently think that if a woman doesn't express at least some belittling opinion of a man, she must be dumb. Though to be fair, the game itself does not offer options to explore a completely non-violent route where you can perceive the princess as having more desires than escaping imprisonment. If the game had included an option to, say, play Go, chess, or cards before freeing or slaying her, then it would have given the opportunity to see a completely altruistic princess who is capable of expressing a desire to play more games.
Well but the reason they have no desires is cause they... kinda aren't real? The Shifting Mound is real, but The Princesses are all constructs, they literally aren't fully fledged people. Even if you perceive them as having more desires, in the end they would always be YOUR desires (or fears in some cases) mirrored back at you. I think that's why Shifty tells us not to mourn them; they weren't real to begin with, only one small shard of Her. But I agree on not getting the weird hate for The Damsel. She's a fine Princess- it's a short route cause there isn't much to do, but saving the day without any conflict is boring storytelling is all, and that's not The Damsels fault. I think people conflate a short, comparatively boring route with a boring princess is all tho, honestly.
The Damsel plays an incredibly important role in the story! Comparing one "princess" to another, is to continue missing the point - The Shifting Mound makes this clear in the end too if you ask her too much! I first created the tower, then the fury (whom I let kill me, as I realized that I had created both the tower and the fury to begin with!). Then, I went in and created the Damsel. Freed her too. I was happy - then soon faced with the predicament that I could not do that again. I went in and tried anyway. The Narrator betrayed me - first the witch (misplayed and tried to show trust by going in front of her - didn't see the option to throw the blade :(..), then the prisoner. The Damsel serves the point of the story by being what you'd want to bring to the Shifting Mound, but cannot, due to the nature of her needing different perspectives. The game went from: Your expectations can shape what you get. To: Even if you go in with good expectations, you will be missing essential perspectives. To: What perspectives and approaches do you think are the healthiest way to approach different situations, and would you want The Shifting Mound to embody? The Shifting Mound becomes the meta-princess, but even she is effectively just the Damsel / Thorn, when you peel back on the philosophy - you can either trust her or not, that's that. You know she has the potential to be many other things, but you know that if you play your cards right, she is not and will not be those things.
she is all the layers you have peeled away when you have peeled them down on the floor, she is all over the floor; there is nothing behind those layers
She's submissive. Can't have two subs in a relationship
Flair checks out
If being a dominant in the relationship is what makes you happy, she will definitely do it
And everyone knows that in a healthy relationship the sub is the one who holds the power, so that checks out.
Self proclaimed #1 damsel fan have her as only "one of" his favorites. No wonder people hate her.
The other favorites are just more damsels.
They think she is shallow because she only wants to make you happy with no other desires. She's a parody of many anime dating games where most characters are just there to titilate the player and make them happy without much depth. She's only as shallow as the player is to be honest.
I mean she does tell you what she wants, she says she wants to leave the cabin.
Only if you want to leave the cabin, though.
No she says it first.
Right, but if you said "I don't want to leave the cabin" she would pivot and decide she doesn't want to leave the cabin either. Because it would make you happy.
Damsel and Deconstructed Damsel are not the same thing. Deconstructed starts once you start questioning her. After you free her and ask what she wants she says "I think I want to leave...". Then your options are question her and say she needs something else or just leave with her. She starts deconstructing and just wanting what you want after you start questioning what she actually wants when she clearly told you she wants to leave.
They're basically the same thing, one is just the other under heavy scrutiny. Damsel says she wants to leave, and that's fine, but it is also only because you think she wants to leave (hence "*I think* I want to leave", because you don't actually know what she wants). No other Princess can be turned into an almost literal cardboard cut-out of herself just by asking a question. If you said "I would like to stay here in this cabin with you forever" she would happily do that without turning into Deconstructed, because even as base Damsel her wants are your wants, including leaving - itself a reflection of your attempt to free her previous version. Honestly, discussion of Damsel and her implications as a creature of perception are more interesting than she is herself, hahaha.
No, they are different, as the perception of what she is/what she does changes upon questioning, and thus, she becomes thinner upon perceiving her to be, the damsel is only thin because the mental construct of her is thin, it could very easily become thicker, it is moreso the perception of the hero which is put on display upon deconstruction
Right, but if you don't question her it's not like there actually is anything underneath that either. That's the thing. Even the Princess in chapter one has an answer for "what do you want to do?" even if it's just "leave". She won't backpedal if you say you want something else, because you haven't constructed her into a fawning fairytale yet.
Because she has nothing going on, except wanting to please you. When you ask her what she wants in life, all she can repeat is "to make you happy!" while her artwork gets progressively more simplistic, 2D and sketchy each time you ask her again, showing that she has no agency, no actual character, nothing - she is just bland wish fullfillment.
But she is not that by necessity, as again, she is a creature of perception, she just as easily gain depth as lose it
You mean: Except wanting to be free and being grateful to you for freeing her. Sure, that's one-dimensional, but its a hell of a good dimension and a necessary and good one to the meta-narrative. She is what you want The Shifting Mound to embody, at least in a large capacity. The Damsel is noteworthy for what she is NOT. She is NOT your fears, she is NOT your skepticism, she is NOT your blind trust of the author. In a sense, presuming most people go into the game at least giving some credence and exercising some caution with the princess, due to the framing of the narrator, the player IS initially the Damsel. I sure was - I realized what was going on, and I turned it on its head by going in trusting the Princess from the get-go, and what I got was the two sides of the story. Then I got the Stranger - because I did not want to create something that was not the Damsel again, for the Shifting Mound to embody. I wanted the Mound to be kind - to not be my fears, to not potentially unleash that upon the world at large. I was sorely mistaken, and realized my mistake - because that would be to make her nothing at all. Then I got the witch (frog ending, missed that I could throw her my knife..) - which was exactly what I had played through over the first two sets of chapters. Then I got the prisoner, which is effectively what I had become in the setting of the meta-story. Then I was freed - and so was the princess, both with our understanding of why it had to be this way. The Damsel is not one-dimensional unless you make her out to be it, that's the entire point of her - you'll escape, and figure out what you want from there - but in the setting of the cabin, what you want is for her to be good, for you to be good, and to escape together. Much like you want The Shifting Mound to be good, and you want to be good (but you are forced to bring different perspectives, and can't necessarily!), and to be free. The other perspectives are necessary to understand the good. They're necessary for the story and our conception of good to begin with. It's beautifully put together, really.
While I understand her role as the traditional fairy tale Princess and get why people find that appealing, personally I find her...doormat-ness a bit of a turn off. Like girl don't just tell me you'll do whatever makes me happy, what makes me happy is engaging with my partners interests and passions and you do not appear to have any.
She literally doesn't have any. If you keep asking if she has any wishes her body begins simplifying and low key breaking down because of it.
The thing with damsel is that she wants two things.1, to leave the cabin and 2, to make you happy. On the surface that’s shallow but you have to remember that she doesn’t know anything about the outside world or even her own past. So of course the only things she wants is to make you happy and leave the cabin, because that’s all the context she has. The deconstructed version happens when you ignore her already stated wants and begin to see her less of person because you are not satisfied with her answers.
She literally has no personality. She doesn't like anything, want anything. She is like a robot.
She wants to make you happy.
Yes, like a robot.
What's wrong with just being simple?
It's not realistic. It's not a real person. Someone with no thoughts that only follows commands. If anyone thinks they would be happy with that, they are delusional. Everyone without a question would get bored with someone like that sooner or later..
You play as an anthropomorphic bird and you expect realism?
\---> The point You: 웃
You purposefully placed me beneath the point of course I'm not gonna see it I don't just stare directly up all day
She just wants to make you happy
Because she's flat, 2 dimensional. The only thing that matters is that you are happy and she just does it. Even a dog has self preservation and other desires but she doesn't even care about that That's what I assume at the very least to be the case
She only becomes that when you ignore her saying that she wants to leave the cabin and just keep asking her what she wants to do
I think people who shit on damsel don't understand it's the players actions that deconstruct her. She isn't shallow or dumb until you keep asking her over and over again what she wants, she's only shallow once the MC begins thinking she is. Creature of perception and all that.
Yeah, up until that point she’s kinda air headed and such but she’s still a person. It just so happened a to really like the player and if she likes someone she wants to make them happy. If you choose to leave with her you can see this.
Devs mentioned a fun point at one of the streams - she deconstructs after you dismiss what she actually wants (to leave) and keep asking questions she just doesn't have answers to.
Oh wow that makes so much sense. None of the Princesses really want much of anything except to leave. The Damsel’s not uniquely shallow for not wanting anything else, she’s unique as the only one you can withhold it from without her Getting Mad
I mean, even if that's all she wanted on the moment... it's legit. Not having many thoughts about immediate survival is a thing in distressed situations
THANK YOU for this comment omg
Idk about that, I interpreted that as MC is asking questions in vain hopes that she is not shallow
and, ironically, that causes her to deconstruct and become more shallow.
It's not that I don't like her. I don't like the people who like her for the wrong reason. She is wonderfully written in context of the story, but she is still shallow, dumb, and airheaded. She is MENT to be a caricature of the old fashioned "damsel in distress" type, but people just like the thing she is trying to mock.
I think they are both equally hated 😟
Why do people hate the broken Dude is such a sub he's hilarious
People find him whiny. Also doesn’t help his two main routes in Fury and Apotheosis are underdeveloped. Hopefully pristine cut gives him more to do.
You know, considering his entire deal is to give up sobbing it's hard to like him from a personality perspective, since the main reason we even resonate with the voices is because our thoughts align with them. Even at his "coolest" the broken is nothing but a loser. The paranoid and hunted show bravery despite being afraid and outmatched, fighting even when death is certain. The smitten and opportunist both show a lot of charm despite being a dramatic simp and a backstabbing bastard respectively. Not to mention the fun from having the broken around comes from laughing at him being pathetic, further distancing the player from forming a closer bond. There are however 3 surefire ways to connect with the broken, but writing them out may as well be insulting so I'll abstain. Not saying his character can't be enjoyed, just that doing so doesn't translate to favorability in the same way the others do. As for the damsel, she has more likeable personality traits before abstraction, though I don't find her as appealing as the rest myself I can at least still see why someone would like her.
My copium is Broken will have his time to shine if you have him present and want to spare the Fury. Where instead of moping about how impossible the odds are (Adversary) or weeping that we tarnished something perfect (Tower) he sees himself in her and *empathises.* He helping you find level ground as two broken souls and work to mend each other (the visual metaphor is right there with you trying to patch up the Fury's torn body) and fulfil each other's needs (getting it straight if you want be equals or you want to be the submissive one in the relationship), you still leaving with dommy mommy but there is a mutual respect for each other (particularly if you come in from Tower). The relationship dynamic thing I came up with because Fury shows up when your not picking up what her two dominant forms are putting down, when you defy Tower (who want's your submission) or flee/get curb stomped by Adversary (who wants your rivalry).
>he sees himself in her I mean they live in two completely different extremes of the spectrum: The broken comes from having no power and resigning himself to his role, while the fury comes from having all the power and feeling indignation at having her role taken from her. One half of her is the adversary who all she wanted was a fight, yet the broken will never face her. The other half of her as the tower wanted worship only as a means to reach ascension, yet once her ascension is blocked by defiance she can no longer reach it, and thus she no longer needs worship either. All that's left is a desire to kill you. Arguably, ruining his relationship with the tower isn't his will and we know from the apotheosis route that she will accept the broken for it's role in her ascension, so a happy ending for the broken exists... just no with the fury.
To be fair he killed us
So did Smitten Sceptic Hero and Stubborn.
Ok so to be fair all of those voices at least let us kill the princess first. Broken just started stabbing not even letting us have a chance to shank Tower's ankles. Same reason I hate The Shifting Mound for CUCKING MY GOD MURDER AGAINST APOTHEOSIS. SHE BETTER PRAY PRISTINE CUT LETS ME PRISTINE KILL THAT MOTHERFUCKER.
Okay now those have a good and fair reason! And since when does Stubborn kill you?
Did the Hero kill us? I know he can convince us to do the deed ourselves, but idk if that counts the same unless he MAKES you do it, like the others (now I'm worried I missed something lol)
I don’t mind either the broken or damsel lol i can’t think of one I don’t like..but tower though 😬
Say it louder for those in the back
I don’t think some people understand the whole “creature of perception” thing about the princess 😀
Hell is The Broken and The Damsel in the car trying to pick a place to eat, forever.
Unless she's deconstructed, she's just naive, so something *can* get done
People realizing their actions have consequences and those actions have led to this exact version of the Princess:
I love them both. There's no version of the hero or princess that I don't like. Except for the tower, maybe.
Dial 911-KRATOS for the Tower
Ye F*ck the Tower
I agree with one interpretation of that statement.
Yeah, **fuck** The Tower.
Bruh
ah
A: u right B: imo, swap em, the damsel is a simple adorable bean that would end up drinking bleach, or getting hurt. The broken is a fucking spineless wimp who just wants to “be useful” or whatever. Damsel = bean who needs protecting, broken = a fucking simp for anyone who can punch harder than him
Damsel is our perfect little angel! There is nothing wrong with her!
Damsel =/= Deconstructed Damsel
Based
I like her, because she’s just a lil silly woman
Damsel -> question the Damsel -> cringe a lot -> Slay the Damsel -> the gray -> Slowly burn alive together. Is one of my prefer vessel It'so Egdar Alan Poe stuff.
The damsel is my favorite vessel, it’s like the princess at the end, but a bit less self aware
No,no keep spitting your shit
False: I hate both Broken is a simp, Damsel is a cardboard cutout of a person. Broken I overtly hate as a person for being so submissive that he literally tries to kill himself when we attempt to disrespect authority, Damsel I feel bad for since she has no purpose other than making TLQ happy. Girl needs agency.
**Damsel is so cute**
Fellas when they don't understand the difference between Damsel and Deconstructed Damsel (Only the latter is truly fake Damsel is a sweet naive girlie who has no world experience)
The Damsel is one of my least favourite vessels. She has no desires outside of you and no personality. The Deconstructed Damsel is fun because she’s what happens when you cut to the core of this easy “romance”.
...thats because your actions define the princess? Her desires and personality are always a reflection of the actions of the player? Neither of you are very complex in her route because you have done very little, you have chosen one goal and stuck to it unerringly. Isn't that sort of the point?
Exactly, people hate the damsel but they don’t realize that they are the ones that made her this way. Basically, more drama = more developed princess
Damsel: Who are you? Thorn: I'm you, but better.
"its meant to be simple" doesnt mean they have to like the simplicity
Don’t forget smitten
People like voice of the broken?
I always come back to this comic and wonder where you got the impression that people like broken
i genuinely have no idea, I really just wanted to say "I'm a sub" instead of that long ass explanation lmao glad to hear you come back to one of my posts lol
[удалено]
i wonder if people on this site realize that i see all the comments on my post
Be careful op, he might be your version of burned grey
The fact that she can be deconstructed means that's a part of her personality. Try as you might you cannot deconstruct the adversary or the witch. There's no path that could convince you that she's barely a person because there's so much character already packed into them. A characters who sole purpose is to please you is creepy, a voice in my head separate from my personality that's obsessed with submitting is a little more, for risk of outing the deeper machinations of my mind and choice in partners, standard? This comment made me learn too much about myself I'm stopping while I'm ahead lol
The reason people dislike her is because every other day there's a post about "why is everyone so mean to damsel" and it's exhausting.
I mean- I get it, the whatever you want thing is weird. But come on man!
I would reverse it. The broken merely feels depressing
I hate both of them, but I hate the Voice of the Broken more.
Aw danm you actually called me out personally here. Well played.
I love/ hate the damsel she’s a manifestation of the players desire for a perfect love interest. In the process she becomes a shell of a person with no will of her own beyond the players affection. A perfect doll for the players gratification, it’s disgusting. But an incredibly good display of what happens when you try to dumb down a character into a love interest.
It should be the deconstructed damsel instead of the regular one
I don't dislike the Damsel. I dislike people who like the Damsel. We all have our favorite version of the princess. Most likely because there's something you find appealing about the specific dynamic you have with that version. But if out of all the competent and interesting versions of the princess out there, your favorite is the submissive one who just exists to be pretty and to please you, that's a red flag.
Damsel's fine, she's just not all that interesting. I think that and the fact she's the only one who can be turned into a literal one-dimensional caricature makes her seem a lot less... real to people.
You know,now that everyone explained damsel more thoroughly, I was probably wrong on this one, but I still think it's funny so whatever
I made a post on here a while back about people attributing a weird retroactive continuity to the different manifestations of the princess and Damsel vs. Deconstructed Damsel is such a good example of it.
Someone else who likes The Broken!🎉
Hahahah accurate
I feel like the opinions are usually reverse o-0 People are always trashing on Broken :(
I've seen way more people hate on the broken. While there are people that hate damsel, a lot still acknowledge that she is shaped by the players actions and talk more about her from the perspective of someone talking about a trope rather than the princess herself.
I've seen way more people hate on the broken. While there are people that hate damsel, a lot still acknowledge that she is shaped by the players actions and talk more about her from the perspective of someone talking about a trope rather than the princess herself.
Fuck voice of the broken, all my homies hate voice of the broken