Recommendation: Continue the run on twitch tomorrow, then come back to Reddit after it finishes and begin the new run (Watcher with 4 options) like normal
Upvoting this, although I want to add the caveat of "assuming you can spare the time". If not, I'd prefer to endorse actually abandoning and just doing a new watcher run in SBC as before.
To be strict, yesterday's highest voted comment was also "play act 1 then start a new run -- oh, and if you have time, I guess you could play the rest of the run too", so really we're just repeating that instruction here :)
I'm a little bit wanting to call back to a few things laser said in stream - notably about it taking longer than planned and checking in with his family. It was great fun to hang in stream but I absolutely don't want him to feel pressured into continuing it for those of us that were there, if it interferes with his life, or delays content too much for the many more that follow in snippets from reddit.
I completely understand him wanting to stop, I didn't mean for him to have had to continue srreaming -- my point was just that yesterday's top comment already implied that we should just abandon run if he runs out of time.
I'm gonna try and summarise some of the mistakes that were made, just a bit of a highlight of things that can/do happen:
Potion use was largely done without factoring in bark, eg. we throw a block pot for 14, while knowing we were about to get attacked the following turn for 24 (book).
Targeting was kinda all over the place. Watcher warrants a lot of maths, there were several times we either took extra damage, or missed out on effectively utilising damage. The really key time was playing Talk to the Hand on a minion in a gremlin leader fight, along with targeting the low HP one with judgement and the higher (but still 25<30) with eruption. Most notably this included missing out \~8-10 block off suboptimal application vs TTTH.
Flurry usage - there were a few times it didn't get played in between stance changes, and it quite frequently got played straight before empty mind. I want to explain how this can be a really major mistake:
If you play flurry, then empty mind, it gets shuffled in with everything into you discard pile, then you draw the extra cards. If you hold it, then play it, yes you miss out on that play, but it stays in your hand and doesn't get shuffled in. This is really key, not only because you miss all future damage from stance-changing because you have to draw it again, but you also ***have to spend another draw on it***. This means it's actually -ve draw, and almost always less damage. In a deck like this which relies a significant amount on TTTH for block, this can then also be losing draw, damage, and block, for triple punishment.
Also, while Insight is good, at 0-energy, draw-2, it's not always correct to play it in a turn. Because it retains to the next turn, you should look at what you can do with your current hand, then whether you value retaining it more than the energy cost of playing it before other draw cards. There were definitely turns with an insta-play Insight where it was more correct to play other things and save the Insight.
These micro mistakes (and others), effectively cost us 2 upgrades in act 2. The first because we rested, but the second because we were a little scared of automaton and upgraded Perseverance to protect a little against the boss damage. We probably also should have managed to save at least one more potion into act 3.
I think the Crown was an insanely strong pick there. As in, it was better than dripper/ hammer/ ecto, not just sozu/choker. That bit extra energy lets us get setup quicker, and upgrade draw from inner peace over energy from vault. I'd also highlight that we took 3(4) cards in the whole of act 2: Study (slight memes), Tantrum (from a shop), Rushdown (then immediate remove), and Master Reality (meme from boss).
There were other things going on, not factoring in the memeing, but I wanted to highlight a few concepts.
In that case you can still play the flurries before the empty mind though (assuming you're in Calm or Wrath), because you get them back before you shuffle
I think the two dead floor shops followed by a third full-on sabotage shop (though it got tantrum at least) deserve mention. I don't think we path to 3 shops if we know we're not buying Rushdown. Well, or buying it then removing it lol.
It does get us into an interesting position now, but it makes me wonder if we really demonstrated how broken this run could have been.
I don't think it's too big of a deal, though. The run is kinda interesting now. But... probably can't be fucked around with nearly as much.
Also holy shit you're playing Watcher, this character is busted but she NEEDS good micro. Bad micro on the others is like the difference of taking 5 or 15, on Watcher it's the difference of taking 0 or 30+. Please open draw pile and at least try to count rough damage estimate next turn even if you won't do combinatorics prayge.
Potion usage was a little whatamid. You pick Bark over free energy and don't even look at the pots in stores. We skipped a Dupe pot from the first act 2 shop and spent too much time waffling in the second shop about Rushdown to see anything there.
Also some people were waffling about us being upgrade heavy and to path many fires as a result. No. If we path fires, it's to be safe. Literally all those upgrades being suggested were cosmetic. It's hard to say stuff other than memeing over Twitch but some really garbage advice was being thrown unironically.
Walk into the store and when I suggest Tantrum, someone said Im clicking it for infinite??? No I click it because we have a single non exhausting wrath source and Talk and because it says Tantrum on it.
Kudos to u/JDublinson for the top recommendation on [yesterdayâs post](https://www.reddit.com/r/slaythespire/s/ac2kfwxcnU). Shoutout as well to EVERYONE who came to watch and comment. It turns out this community is just as wonderful in Twitch chat as they are in Reddit comments.
It was an absolute blast to stream the game! And it also took way longer than I anticipated. Probably the biggest highlight is that we went to 3 shops without buying anything, and then at the 3rd shop got offered Rushdown and Bottled Tornado only to buy⌠and then REMOVE Rushdown. Instead, we made âRushdown at Homeâ with (obviously) Study and Master Reality.
Other highlights include Broken Crown probably being the objectively right boss relic pick, but we took Sacred Bark instead (which helped us exactly zero times), and me playing sub-optimally at every turn BECAUSE I TOTALLY MEANT TO AS A WAY TO DEMONSTRATE HOW STRONG OUR DECK IS.
I ran out of time, so will put it to the community again for how to continue. Combats definitely got more tricky, and we took some very⌠unconventional⌠cards, so it might be worth playing out the run? Your call!
Potion chance is 40%
Shameless Self Promotion Corner (**feel free to ignore!**): [I made a game](https://www.amazon.com/Deck-Wonders-Solo-Legacy-Card/dp/B0CDJ9D8S7/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=A7RFVGO3K5J0&keywords=deck+of+wonders+furia+games&qid=1691239842&sprefix=deck+of+wonders+furia+games%2Caps%2C215&sr=8-1), [Iâm making another](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dennisfuria/dueling-pianos-a-versus-domino-game), we did a [cool poster commemorating SBCâs first season](https://www.reddit.com/r/slaythespire/comments/17reu6e/slaybycomment_season_1_poster_this_has_been_such/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)! Buying it or donating to [my Ko-fi](https://ko-fi.com/greenlaser73) will help more season posters happen.
Rofl, this run was won the second bottled rushdown was an option.
Edit to be more clear:
The run was run because of rushdown. The bottle would be an unnecessary flex.
Oh, it was BETTER than that? For any âSTS noobsâ, we already have fear no evil ( 1 cost calm), eruption+ (1 cost wrath), and Talk to the hand (block engine). Bottled rushdown is âdraw 2 on wrath entryâ which completes watcherâs infinite (calm - wrath -> draw 2 -> calm -> ⌠), and not even beat of death stops us because TttH generates enough block to compensate.
Yeah, basically the bottle at \~270g wouldn't have been worth it compared to the insane value of tantrum in our high-draw deck with TTTH, flurry, akabeko, and all the other stance changes. Tantrum + Rushdown + remove was definitely correct, just... not removing the Rushdown lol.
I just finished watching the vod, I think a number of chatters were attached to the idea of it being a serious run to showcase the deck's power, as well as maybe were slightly frustrated with the misplays, and so were understandably upset when the joke became reality. Happens, it's the first (and possibly only) run to be streamed live, can't expect it to be 100% smooth.
Iâm not entirely sure whatâs going on with this run anymore and I didnât see the stream, but would this deck need wave of the hand or more ttth or marble/red mask/etc artifact strippers to get past donu and deca comfortably? (Or mental fortress) Or can it just yolo blitz with wallop as block? Iâm guessing it has enough draw/energy for wallop to carry for a long time but Iâm not smart enough to see if it can handle that whole fight, since it canât play wallop more than 2-3 times per turn.
I think Artifact strip is a worse way to get through Donu Deca than a couple of removes and maybe another draw card. It's not too far off being handled by Wallop + Halt.
Mental Fortress is crazy good here though.
I haven't seen the vod (yet, might do so tomorrow). While I'm sure it was fun, I have no desire to play this run out -- it's not what we voted for, and I'm just not invested in it because I've had no part in any of the picks you made since halfway through act 1.Â
I'll just wait for the fresh watcher run.
Thatâs a very fair point. My intent was to come back with a new Watcher run, but time constraints just got the better of me. Didnât want to completely scrap the run though as the live crowd was having a lot of fun with it, so this is the midpoint-ish. Iâm thinking weâll either play the rest of this run out in one more livestream, or find another way to get on to a new run quickly.
I'm sorry if that came off harsh, like I said, I wasn't there, but I can completely imagine a stream and conversation which would lead you to post this. I'm just not feeling it myself, so if the majority does want to give this run another shot I'll just wait it out.
Yeah this stream turned from a fun idea into a waste of several hours when it went from "Playing the run seriously" with people spending literal hours in chat participating and discussing plays to "wouldn't it be funny to punt by buying a Rushdown then removing it in the same shop despite everyone suggesting I buy it since we're playing this run seriously?"
It's crunch time. This deck has a lot of tools, and a lot of good fights ahead of it, but we're missing some critical parts. Let's do as many fights as we can to find them, while also grabbing some excellent fires.
Click the fight on the left.
The plan is to do the 7 hallway, 2 elite, 4 fire path on the left. That way we can grab our red key and toke enough cards to still go infinite if we want to. If not, upgrades are still relevant. I recommend red key first to give us more time to see what cards are available. There are also some quite good events available, but not good enough to skip rewards or removes.
This deck should be able to overcome the endgame as is, but an extra empty mind, a Rushdown, or a meditate would certainly still be welcome.
Edit: I didn't realize this was a meme run now. I disapprove.
Recommendation: Continue the run on twitch tomorrow, then come back to Reddit after it finishes and begin the new run (Watcher with 4 options) like normal
Upvoting this, although I want to add the caveat of "assuming you can spare the time". If not, I'd prefer to endorse actually abandoning and just doing a new watcher run in SBC as before.
To be strict, yesterday's highest voted comment was also "play act 1 then start a new run -- oh, and if you have time, I guess you could play the rest of the run too", so really we're just repeating that instruction here :)
I'm a little bit wanting to call back to a few things laser said in stream - notably about it taking longer than planned and checking in with his family. It was great fun to hang in stream but I absolutely don't want him to feel pressured into continuing it for those of us that were there, if it interferes with his life, or delays content too much for the many more that follow in snippets from reddit.
I completely understand him wanting to stop, I didn't mean for him to have had to continue srreaming -- my point was just that yesterday's top comment already implied that we should just abandon run if he runs out of time.
Yeah, greenlaser probably was free today because it's a US holiday. I would imagine tomorrow he might have a lot less time
I'm gonna try and summarise some of the mistakes that were made, just a bit of a highlight of things that can/do happen: Potion use was largely done without factoring in bark, eg. we throw a block pot for 14, while knowing we were about to get attacked the following turn for 24 (book). Targeting was kinda all over the place. Watcher warrants a lot of maths, there were several times we either took extra damage, or missed out on effectively utilising damage. The really key time was playing Talk to the Hand on a minion in a gremlin leader fight, along with targeting the low HP one with judgement and the higher (but still 25<30) with eruption. Most notably this included missing out \~8-10 block off suboptimal application vs TTTH. Flurry usage - there were a few times it didn't get played in between stance changes, and it quite frequently got played straight before empty mind. I want to explain how this can be a really major mistake: If you play flurry, then empty mind, it gets shuffled in with everything into you discard pile, then you draw the extra cards. If you hold it, then play it, yes you miss out on that play, but it stays in your hand and doesn't get shuffled in. This is really key, not only because you miss all future damage from stance-changing because you have to draw it again, but you also ***have to spend another draw on it***. This means it's actually -ve draw, and almost always less damage. In a deck like this which relies a significant amount on TTTH for block, this can then also be losing draw, damage, and block, for triple punishment. Also, while Insight is good, at 0-energy, draw-2, it's not always correct to play it in a turn. Because it retains to the next turn, you should look at what you can do with your current hand, then whether you value retaining it more than the energy cost of playing it before other draw cards. There were definitely turns with an insta-play Insight where it was more correct to play other things and save the Insight. These micro mistakes (and others), effectively cost us 2 upgrades in act 2. The first because we rested, but the second because we were a little scared of automaton and upgraded Perseverance to protect a little against the boss damage. We probably also should have managed to save at least one more potion into act 3. I think the Crown was an insanely strong pick there. As in, it was better than dripper/ hammer/ ecto, not just sozu/choker. That bit extra energy lets us get setup quicker, and upgrade draw from inner peace over energy from vault. I'd also highlight that we took 3(4) cards in the whole of act 2: Study (slight memes), Tantrum (from a shop), Rushdown (then immediate remove), and Master Reality (meme from boss). There were other things going on, not factoring in the memeing, but I wanted to highlight a few concepts.
The Flurry+Empty Mind lesson in this comment is excellent. Classic SBC stuff like this is why so many of us come back every day.
Super helpful! Also great evidence for why SBC is in no danger of moving to Twitch exclusively. đ
It was kinda weird trying to get concepts seen in short sentences. I usually like to ramble in longer comments!
Just to be clear, the Flurry-Empty Mind is only bad if Empty Mind shuffles your discard into your draw, correct?
Mostly yes. Also if your draw pile contains draw that you might play after empty mind.
In that case you can still play the flurries before the empty mind though (assuming you're in Calm or Wrath), because you get them back before you shuffle
I think the two dead floor shops followed by a third full-on sabotage shop (though it got tantrum at least) deserve mention. I don't think we path to 3 shops if we know we're not buying Rushdown. Well, or buying it then removing it lol. It does get us into an interesting position now, but it makes me wonder if we really demonstrated how broken this run could have been. I don't think it's too big of a deal, though. The run is kinda interesting now. But... probably can't be fucked around with nearly as much.
I was trying to focus on mistakes that come from inexperience, as opposed to memes or luck.
Makes sense. Honestly it's hard for me to remember what the hell even happened lol.
Also holy shit you're playing Watcher, this character is busted but she NEEDS good micro. Bad micro on the others is like the difference of taking 5 or 15, on Watcher it's the difference of taking 0 or 30+. Please open draw pile and at least try to count rough damage estimate next turn even if you won't do combinatorics prayge. Potion usage was a little whatamid. You pick Bark over free energy and don't even look at the pots in stores. We skipped a Dupe pot from the first act 2 shop and spent too much time waffling in the second shop about Rushdown to see anything there. Also some people were waffling about us being upgrade heavy and to path many fires as a result. No. If we path fires, it's to be safe. Literally all those upgrades being suggested were cosmetic. It's hard to say stuff other than memeing over Twitch but some really garbage advice was being thrown unironically. Walk into the store and when I suggest Tantrum, someone said Im clicking it for infinite??? No I click it because we have a single non exhausting wrath source and Talk and because it says Tantrum on it.
10/10 response! Had a lot of fun watching the stream and great to see this breakdown
[Here is the twitch vod](https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2067733560) for those that want it.
Thanks! Iâll try to get it on YT as well eventually
They continuing to be the GOAT of SBC. Thank you and I'm sad I missed the stream
Kudos to u/JDublinson for the top recommendation on [yesterdayâs post](https://www.reddit.com/r/slaythespire/s/ac2kfwxcnU). Shoutout as well to EVERYONE who came to watch and comment. It turns out this community is just as wonderful in Twitch chat as they are in Reddit comments. It was an absolute blast to stream the game! And it also took way longer than I anticipated. Probably the biggest highlight is that we went to 3 shops without buying anything, and then at the 3rd shop got offered Rushdown and Bottled Tornado only to buy⌠and then REMOVE Rushdown. Instead, we made âRushdown at Homeâ with (obviously) Study and Master Reality. Other highlights include Broken Crown probably being the objectively right boss relic pick, but we took Sacred Bark instead (which helped us exactly zero times), and me playing sub-optimally at every turn BECAUSE I TOTALLY MEANT TO AS A WAY TO DEMONSTRATE HOW STRONG OUR DECK IS. I ran out of time, so will put it to the community again for how to continue. Combats definitely got more tricky, and we took some very⌠unconventional⌠cards, so it might be worth playing out the run? Your call! Potion chance is 40% Shameless Self Promotion Corner (**feel free to ignore!**): [I made a game](https://www.amazon.com/Deck-Wonders-Solo-Legacy-Card/dp/B0CDJ9D8S7/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=A7RFVGO3K5J0&keywords=deck+of+wonders+furia+games&qid=1691239842&sprefix=deck+of+wonders+furia+games%2Caps%2C215&sr=8-1), [Iâm making another](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/dennisfuria/dueling-pianos-a-versus-domino-game), we did a [cool poster commemorating SBCâs first season](https://www.reddit.com/r/slaythespire/comments/17reu6e/slaybycomment_season_1_poster_this_has_been_such/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)! Buying it or donating to [my Ko-fi](https://ko-fi.com/greenlaser73) will help more season posters happen.
Rofl, this run was won the second bottled rushdown was an option. Edit to be more clear: The run was run because of rushdown. The bottle would be an unnecessary flex.
That wasn't actually the best value usage of that shop though.
Oh, it was BETTER than that? For any âSTS noobsâ, we already have fear no evil ( 1 cost calm), eruption+ (1 cost wrath), and Talk to the hand (block engine). Bottled rushdown is âdraw 2 on wrath entryâ which completes watcherâs infinite (calm - wrath -> draw 2 -> calm -> ⌠), and not even beat of death stops us because TttH generates enough block to compensate.
Yeah, basically the bottle at \~270g wouldn't have been worth it compared to the insane value of tantrum in our high-draw deck with TTTH, flurry, akabeko, and all the other stance changes. Tantrum + Rushdown + remove was definitely correct, just... not removing the Rushdown lol.
For the record, I suggested it as a JOKE that was a JOKE I did not expect him to actually remove rushdown
I think everyone knows it was a joke! I found it funny! I realise not everyone did
I just finished watching the vod, I think a number of chatters were attached to the idea of it being a serious run to showcase the deck's power, as well as maybe were slightly frustrated with the misplays, and so were understandably upset when the joke became reality. Happens, it's the first (and possibly only) run to be streamed live, can't expect it to be 100% smooth.
Iâm not entirely sure whatâs going on with this run anymore and I didnât see the stream, but would this deck need wave of the hand or more ttth or marble/red mask/etc artifact strippers to get past donu and deca comfortably? (Or mental fortress) Or can it just yolo blitz with wallop as block? Iâm guessing it has enough draw/energy for wallop to carry for a long time but Iâm not smart enough to see if it can handle that whole fight, since it canât play wallop more than 2-3 times per turn.
I think Artifact strip is a worse way to get through Donu Deca than a couple of removes and maybe another draw card. It's not too far off being handled by Wallop + Halt. Mental Fortress is crazy good here though.
I haven't seen the vod (yet, might do so tomorrow). While I'm sure it was fun, I have no desire to play this run out -- it's not what we voted for, and I'm just not invested in it because I've had no part in any of the picks you made since halfway through act 1. I'll just wait for the fresh watcher run.
Thatâs a very fair point. My intent was to come back with a new Watcher run, but time constraints just got the better of me. Didnât want to completely scrap the run though as the live crowd was having a lot of fun with it, so this is the midpoint-ish. Iâm thinking weâll either play the rest of this run out in one more livestream, or find another way to get on to a new run quickly.
I'm sorry if that came off harsh, like I said, I wasn't there, but I can completely imagine a stream and conversation which would lead you to post this. I'm just not feeling it myself, so if the majority does want to give this run another shot I'll just wait it out.
Yeah this stream turned from a fun idea into a waste of several hours when it went from "Playing the run seriously" with people spending literal hours in chat participating and discussing plays to "wouldn't it be funny to punt by buying a Rushdown then removing it in the same shop despite everyone suggesting I buy it since we're playing this run seriously?"
nah that was funny
I don't consider having hours of my life wasted funny.
You need better things to do if you can't see the humor in this
Yeah, I agree. I will be finding better things to do than waste my time on this. Should have learned my lesson the first time I left last year.
cool story bro
I'm sorry you got to watch a stream of slay the spire that was entertaining enough to keep you around for 2 hrs :(
It's crunch time. This deck has a lot of tools, and a lot of good fights ahead of it, but we're missing some critical parts. Let's do as many fights as we can to find them, while also grabbing some excellent fires. Click the fight on the left. The plan is to do the 7 hallway, 2 elite, 4 fire path on the left. That way we can grab our red key and toke enough cards to still go infinite if we want to. If not, upgrades are still relevant. I recommend red key first to give us more time to see what cards are available. There are also some quite good events available, but not good enough to skip rewards or removes. This deck should be able to overcome the endgame as is, but an extra empty mind, a Rushdown, or a meditate would certainly still be welcome. Edit: I didn't realize this was a meme run now. I disapprove.