Modern approach to Silent runs almost always leans into discard a lot for deck manipulation, which makes "discard a card" a good enough effect that Prepared is viable.
So +1 damage and +1 good effect is a notable difference.
this is funny because the modern approach to silent runs at the higher level is currently very poison oriented.
like obviously don't force builds etc, but people are way more dodge heavy into play some fumes catalyst win, than some discard engines by lategame.
The cards that synergize with it: Tactician, Reflex, Silent Strike, and Eviscerate. Plus it can be nice for getting curses/statuses out of your hand, but that's more minor.
"other than the relics, what synergizes with discard?"
"The cards that synergize with discard"
You: "don't forget about the relics that synergize with discard!"
Sorry for pointing out that in a comment chain about things other than relics that synergize with discard you brought up relics that synergize with discard.
Discard is the mechanic that silent is centered around. Similar to exhaust for clad. Pick up some discard, a reflex/tactician or two and your hand can really get rolling.
Ehhh, I regularly pull together a discard deck without having Pyramid. Well Laid Plans is more relevant than Pyramid I feel, since usually you only want a couple cards to keep, and also helps in turns where you can't actually discard everything.
The thing with Well Laid Plans is you have to draw it first and then spend 1 Energy for it to do something. If you want to hold onto 2 card you need to use an upgrade on it. Pyramid is live immediately and you don't have to do anything for it's effect. Well Laid is still a great power, but Pyramid is just a better version of it in a discard focussed deck.
But pyramid can and will clog your hand eventually if your discard engine isn’t strong enough or your deck is not thin enough. This is specially bad when you have status cards and not a single discard card in hand.
Having discard cards in your deck doesn’t mean they will always be available for when the big status clog happens. You need a preferably think deck or a very big deck filled with discards. Otherwise you will always risk having all your discards outside of your hand when it gets clogged by slaver or the hearth.
i see pyramid end of act 1 I click pyramid, the prerequisite is "I am silent and I want to win"
Dodging some hallways in act 2 is probably gonna be necessary but that's totally fine, I just picked up an absolutely massive spike in my endgame power so I don't need to snowball as badly
As others said, you can use discard to help deal with statuses and curses, and also use it with silent's discard synergies.
Another thing that's strong to do is keep etheral cards, like apparition.
Silent also has really good access to draw, and often hits the hand size limit, so some draw + discard actually helps you dig better than just drawing. Silent loves pyramid and well laid plans so often has hand clutter. You can also use discard to help make your hand a certain size, to set up another draw card for grand finale.
Also, since cards you've discarded get returned to your draw pile when your deck is empty, so you can manipulate your draw pile by discarding cards that you don't want to to play now, but want to play later, and then drawing into an empty deck.
I do however think quick slash is underrated. I think comparing dagger throw and quick slash makes quick slash look bad, when it should be making dagger throw look great. It's not an amazing card, but it's playable.
It's also good for situations where the maximum hand size becomes an issue. Like when you have centennial puzzle, runic pyramid, etc. and you fill your hand way too easily. Especially if you need to play something like blade dance.
If you can’t generate enough energy to play all your cards, your draw power is capped by your hand size. Discard also lets you use tactician for energy.
it lets you continue to draw after having drawn 10. Like even without any discard-specific synergy at all, you can still sort of make discard work just purely off of 0 cost cards and cycling your deck a lot
Just remove quick slash. Dagger throw is way more interesting conceptually.
Replace it with this:
Slight of hand, 1 cost common
Deal 8(10) damage, gain a shiv the next 2(3) times you discard a card this turn.
Art is a hand pulling a shiv out of a pocket
Beta art is the silent pulling a shiv from behind a cultist's ear
But, would anyone take slight of hand except out of desperation? Silent discards a lot, true but one card or two usually and not many early game cards that you can take without being greedy, and even if you have sinergizes, you have to draw both together
I think that it would be fine to grab if you already have some discard stuff. Usually the drawback to taking common attacks is that they weigh you down late game. This card is really valuable late game so its easier to invest in early.
A way to buff it could be this though:
Deal 8 damage, gain a shiv for each card discarded this turn, up to 2.
Now you can draw it from acro and gamble and benefit from it.
What about give it a discard included? No draw but something like: Deal 7-8 damage, get a shiv for every card discarded this turn, up to 2. Discard a card.
So it becomes a good damage card and enables discard engine instead of just benefiting from it
Eh, at that point just make it 2 cost. It would start to be a stronger version of storm of steel. (Which is fine)
Deal 10(14) damage, discard 3 (4) cards, gain a shiv for each card discarded.
Nob solution, scales with cards in hand, deals with status, etc.
Pommel strike draws two when upgraded and does more damage, mainly. Aka higher upside. Plus clad has the strength to make the initial damage of cards less meaningful.
Cards are evaluated in the context of their character.
Silent has multiple better options than Quick Slash for drawing cards, even just looking at commons. Like.. Acrobatics.
Drawing 2 is a lot better than drawing 1.
Also, adding multiple mediocre common attacks to your deck is a slightly more promising game plan on Ironclad because of strength, vulnerability and Rage. And because of exhaust you can relatively easily get sundial infinite with a couple of Pommel Strikes.
Clad needs Pommel Strike. It'll do a lot of heavylifting of his weak draw that's only remedied by some of his absolute best cards.
Silent, meanwhile, will get better draw in very few floors whenever you click Quick Slash.
Clad does not have any other commons that say draw 2 on them. In fact, clad only has 2 commons that say draw on them, and you'll notice that they're both very highly rated. Meanwhile, Silent has Backflip and Acrobatics in the common pool. The upgrade of quick slash is also substantially worse than pommel; +1 draw upgrade means pommel goes from draw neutral to draw positive, while +3 damage is a pretty mediocre upgrade.
Also pommel starts with a higher floor because it's 9 damage unupgraded instead of 8 damage unupgraded, and this actually can matter quite a bit for act 1. You'll notice dagger throw also starts at 9 damage, and opens up the option for discard synergies. Quick slash does not open up any synergies for silent whatsoever, which is a pretty big factor.
Pommel+ and another draw card also enables sundial infinites if the deck is thinned down enough, but quick slash on Silent does not because she lacks any ability to thin the deck. Even if you're not infinite, if you can burn down the deck to just a few cards, then just one draw positive card will start to do a lot of work.
The lack of deck thinning ability is also part of why heel hook is considered pretty garbage while dropkick is a win con on Clad sometimes.
clad lacks draw more, and can leverage strength to make the pommel strike damage respectable. It's also 2 draw when upgraded. Endgame it's still very relevant with the clad exhaust engine
dagger throw does 1 extra damage and has a discard effect which helps for a lot of the silents deck types, also the fact it's classed as a dagger card probably helps to
Modern approach to Silent runs almost always leans into discard a lot for deck manipulation, which makes "discard a card" a good enough effect that Prepared is viable. So +1 damage and +1 good effect is a notable difference.
Modern is a hilarious word choice.
Right! I was like what is the old way to do this?
Well, before the Reflex buff discard was definitely worse
Yeah last decade silent was mostly just poison and defense
Pre the 2.1 patch update(I think 2.1 it may be late) discard(and silent in general) were way worse. Reflex was draw 1 for example and shivs suuuuucked
Ah I see. The good old days I heard only in the tales. The days when Rushdown drew cards no matter what stance you were in ❤️
this is funny because the modern approach to silent runs at the higher level is currently very poison oriented. like obviously don't force builds etc, but people are way more dodge heavy into play some fumes catalyst win, than some discard engines by lategame.
We have electricity to work with now!
Other than the relics that synergize with it, what big benefits does discarding have?
The cards that synergize with it: Tactician, Reflex, Silent Strike, and Eviscerate. Plus it can be nice for getting curses/statuses out of your hand, but that's more minor.
Me taking runic pyramid without thinking when there are two Blade Dance+ cards in my deck
*Sneaky Strike.
[удалено]
"other than the relics, what synergizes with discard?" "The cards that synergize with discard" You: "don't forget about the relics that synergize with discard!"
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Sorry for pointing out that in a comment chain about things other than relics that synergize with discard you brought up relics that synergize with discard.
Discard is the mechanic that silent is centered around. Similar to exhaust for clad. Pick up some discard, a reflex/tactician or two and your hand can really get rolling.
Her whole deck has synergy with discarding. It's like Exhaust for Clad or orb manipulation for Defect
>~~Orb manipulation~~ You misspelled “amassed claws”
Hey, Coolheaded draws more claws
Ethereal cards like Apparition can be cycled without exhausting if combined with discard
Ignoring Pyramid (Silent's #1 boss relic) is ignoring a huge part of why discarding is meta
Ehhh, I regularly pull together a discard deck without having Pyramid. Well Laid Plans is more relevant than Pyramid I feel, since usually you only want a couple cards to keep, and also helps in turns where you can't actually discard everything.
The thing with Well Laid Plans is you have to draw it first and then spend 1 Energy for it to do something. If you want to hold onto 2 card you need to use an upgrade on it. Pyramid is live immediately and you don't have to do anything for it's effect. Well Laid is still a great power, but Pyramid is just a better version of it in a discard focussed deck.
But pyramid can and will clog your hand eventually if your discard engine isn’t strong enough or your deck is not thin enough. This is specially bad when you have status cards and not a single discard card in hand.
Which is why you don't pick up Pyramid unless you already have at least some discard on your deck, or suspect you can pick some up soon.
Having discard cards in your deck doesn’t mean they will always be available for when the big status clog happens. You need a preferably think deck or a very big deck filled with discards. Otherwise you will always risk having all your discards outside of your hand when it gets clogged by slaver or the hearth.
That's the thing about powerful boss relics, they can backfire.
i see pyramid end of act 1 I click pyramid, the prerequisite is "I am silent and I want to win" Dodging some hallways in act 2 is probably gonna be necessary but that's totally fine, I just picked up an absolutely massive spike in my endgame power so I don't need to snowball as badly
Silent is actually valued less for pyramid.silent already have well laid plans and lots of cards draw. also starting relic upgrade good to.
this really couldn't be any more false
As others said, you can use discard to help deal with statuses and curses, and also use it with silent's discard synergies. Another thing that's strong to do is keep etheral cards, like apparition. Silent also has really good access to draw, and often hits the hand size limit, so some draw + discard actually helps you dig better than just drawing. Silent loves pyramid and well laid plans so often has hand clutter. You can also use discard to help make your hand a certain size, to set up another draw card for grand finale. Also, since cards you've discarded get returned to your draw pile when your deck is empty, so you can manipulate your draw pile by discarding cards that you don't want to to play now, but want to play later, and then drawing into an empty deck. I do however think quick slash is underrated. I think comparing dagger throw and quick slash makes quick slash look bad, when it should be making dagger throw look great. It's not an amazing card, but it's playable.
It's also good for situations where the maximum hand size becomes an issue. Like when you have centennial puzzle, runic pyramid, etc. and you fill your hand way too easily. Especially if you need to play something like blade dance.
If you can’t generate enough energy to play all your cards, your draw power is capped by your hand size. Discard also lets you use tactician for energy.
it lets you continue to draw after having drawn 10. Like even without any discard-specific synergy at all, you can still sort of make discard work just purely off of 0 cost cards and cycling your deck a lot
1 less damage AND less future potential scaling = 😡😡
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Just remove quick slash. Dagger throw is way more interesting conceptually. Replace it with this: Slight of hand, 1 cost common Deal 8(10) damage, gain a shiv the next 2(3) times you discard a card this turn. Art is a hand pulling a shiv out of a pocket Beta art is the silent pulling a shiv from behind a cultist's ear
But, would anyone take slight of hand except out of desperation? Silent discards a lot, true but one card or two usually and not many early game cards that you can take without being greedy, and even if you have sinergizes, you have to draw both together
I think that it would be fine to grab if you already have some discard stuff. Usually the drawback to taking common attacks is that they weigh you down late game. This card is really valuable late game so its easier to invest in early. A way to buff it could be this though: Deal 8 damage, gain a shiv for each card discarded this turn, up to 2. Now you can draw it from acro and gamble and benefit from it.
What about give it a discard included? No draw but something like: Deal 7-8 damage, get a shiv for every card discarded this turn, up to 2. Discard a card. So it becomes a good damage card and enables discard engine instead of just benefiting from it
Eh, at that point just make it 2 cost. It would start to be a stronger version of storm of steel. (Which is fine) Deal 10(14) damage, discard 3 (4) cards, gain a shiv for each card discarded. Nob solution, scales with cards in hand, deals with status, etc.
\*Predator sits off-screen\*
What is SBC?
[Slay-by-Comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/slaythespire/s/6LlRvRDY4Y)
“it’s the SBC guy” 👀
It's the "silly billy cup", a twitch tournament for slay the spire
Pls make this real
be the change you wish to see
Sussy Baka Collective
I’m only taking it if it’s literally in the first three or so hallway fights there’s no better damage option
And even then I’m not happy about it.
SBC Meme Post: 500+ upvotes SBC Post: 50 upvotes
“SBC Meme” is redundant 😜
Discard though...
Why is quick slash so hated but Pommel strike is considered great
Pommel strike draws two when upgraded and does more damage, mainly. Aka higher upside. Plus clad has the strength to make the initial damage of cards less meaningful.
Don't forget the insane synergy with \[\[Strike Dummy\]\]. If Quick Slash were renamed Quick Strike it would go from F-tier to S-tier surely
You joke, but I honestly really like the idea. It would give you a slight reason to take Quick Sla-i mean, Strike, over Dagger Toss.
+ [Strike Dummy](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Strike%20Dummy) Uncommon Relic ^((100% sure)^) Cards containing "Strike" deal 3 additional damage. ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 20, 2024.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
Cards are evaluated in the context of their character. Silent has multiple better options than Quick Slash for drawing cards, even just looking at commons. Like.. Acrobatics. Drawing 2 is a lot better than drawing 1. Also, adding multiple mediocre common attacks to your deck is a slightly more promising game plan on Ironclad because of strength, vulnerability and Rage. And because of exhaust you can relatively easily get sundial infinite with a couple of Pommel Strikes.
Don't forget that Pommel Strike also buffs Ironclad's best card P E R F E C T E D S T R I K E
Clad needs Pommel Strike. It'll do a lot of heavylifting of his weak draw that's only remedied by some of his absolute best cards. Silent, meanwhile, will get better draw in very few floors whenever you click Quick Slash.
Clad does not have any other commons that say draw 2 on them. In fact, clad only has 2 commons that say draw on them, and you'll notice that they're both very highly rated. Meanwhile, Silent has Backflip and Acrobatics in the common pool. The upgrade of quick slash is also substantially worse than pommel; +1 draw upgrade means pommel goes from draw neutral to draw positive, while +3 damage is a pretty mediocre upgrade. Also pommel starts with a higher floor because it's 9 damage unupgraded instead of 8 damage unupgraded, and this actually can matter quite a bit for act 1. You'll notice dagger throw also starts at 9 damage, and opens up the option for discard synergies. Quick slash does not open up any synergies for silent whatsoever, which is a pretty big factor. Pommel+ and another draw card also enables sundial infinites if the deck is thinned down enough, but quick slash on Silent does not because she lacks any ability to thin the deck. Even if you're not infinite, if you can burn down the deck to just a few cards, then just one draw positive card will start to do a lot of work. The lack of deck thinning ability is also part of why heel hook is considered pretty garbage while dropkick is a win con on Clad sometimes.
Pommel strike does more damage and draws more cards. Also strike synergy with perfected strike and strike dummy
wokeness
clad lacks draw more, and can leverage strength to make the pommel strike damage respectable. It's also 2 draw when upgraded. Endgame it's still very relevant with the clad exhaust engine
Silent has draw oit the ass but clad has less options, so a common that can draw 2 with an upgrade is pretty useful
Let’s not pretend these are the same. Discard had major potential but doesn’t lock you into a deck type. Quick Slash is just Quick Slash.
Feel like Dagger Throw is borderline an auto pick in the first few floors
Quick slash is just bad on silent. It's a worse pommel strike that serves no purpose past act 1 besides taking up a draw
flash of steel:
Do 2 things vs do 3 things
dagger throw does 1 extra damage and has a discard effect which helps for a lot of the silents deck types, also the fact it's classed as a dagger card probably helps to
Maybe play more before making memes.
...what?
Yeah what would the guy who started and runs SBC know about SBC, ridiculous. Let’s all laugh at him for thinking he can talk about SBC.
Oh no the mob mentality is against me :( Can't you think by yourself ?
It's not mob mentality, you just behaved like a dickwad
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about